Latest / The You Project / #2209 The Parable Of The Chinese Farmer - Dr. Bill Sullivan

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#2209 The Parable Of The Chinese Farmer - Dr. Bill Sullivan · The You Project

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Speaker 1: A good team. It's Harps, it's doctor Bill, it's the
0:02
Speaker 1: You Project. After a couple of weeks away, we're back.
0:07
Speaker 1: Today is day two of the return. Today is if
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Speaker 1: you're hearing this, the day goes up. It's Tuesday. It's
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Speaker 1: been an interesting time. Thanks everyone, as I said yesterday,
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Speaker 1: for your support. It continues to come. You've all been
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Speaker 1: gorgeous and lovable and supporting and cannot thank you enough.
0:25
Speaker 1: Doctor Bill, my good friend, Hi mate, how are you.
0:29
Speaker 2: I'm doing splendid, Harpes. It's good to see you.
0:32
Speaker 1: It's good to see you too. How's life at this
0:35
Speaker 1: time of year in academia? Is it a busy time
0:41
Speaker 1: or is it kind of constant through the year for you?
0:44
Speaker 1: Or you surely have times that are more crazy and less.
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Speaker 2: Yes, you're right.
0:49
Speaker 1: Now.
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Speaker 2: The summurb tends to be a little more relaxed, maybe slightly,
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Speaker 2: because there's not as many courses to teach and not
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Speaker 2: a lot of other things going on at the university
1:01
Speaker 2: as a whole. So we are ramping up into the
1:04
Speaker 2: fall semester. Now. Students are coming back to their dormitories
1:09
Speaker 2: and getting settled on campus, so traffic's going to get
1:13
Speaker 2: a lot worse around Campus Park is going to be
1:15
Speaker 2: more difficult, but there's definitely going to be a lot
1:18
Speaker 2: more to do. The number of courses we teach is
1:22
Speaker 2: going to go up. There's a number of seminar series
1:25
Speaker 2: that are being initiated, and grant deadlines are coming up,
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Speaker 2: so yeah, it's going to get very busy in another
1:33
Speaker 2: week or two.
1:35
Speaker 1: Speaking of teaching, do you have a teaching style or
1:41
Speaker 1: teaching philosophy, like the way that you so you know
1:45
Speaker 1: this stuff, the people in front of you don't know
1:47
Speaker 1: the stuff that you know. Do you have a particular
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Speaker 1: way of disseminating thoughts ideas science that you've developed?
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I didn't invent this wheel. This is based
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Speaker 2: on instructors that I have had in the past to
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Speaker 2: train me, some of whom got up there and just
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Speaker 2: spit out the facts, kind of read the textbook to you,
2:16
Speaker 2: and then others who are much more lively and engaging.
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Speaker 2: They expect you to read the textbook on your own time.
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Speaker 2: But what they are there to do is to train
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Speaker 2: you how to synthesize that knowledge and integrate it into
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Speaker 2: other material you know, in other words, to critically think
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Speaker 2: about it. That is the style I try to emulate
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Speaker 2: rather than just spitting out a whole bunch of facts
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Speaker 2: and figures for people to remember. I would much rather
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Speaker 2: tell a story, and what I draw upon when I
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Speaker 2: tell those stories is something that might be very useful
2:52
Speaker 2: to the student's everyday life, or give them the history,
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Speaker 2: especially in science, you know, gloss over this way too much.
3:02
Speaker 2: It's really nice to go through some of the painstaking
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Speaker 2: steps that humanity had to you know, discover I know,
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Speaker 2: all these wonderful discoveries that came along the way before
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Speaker 2: we finally made this nice, big breakthrough that we might
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Speaker 2: be talking about in class. You know, like Isaac Newton said,
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Speaker 2: all scientists kind of stand on the shoulder of giants.
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Speaker 2: And that's what I try to get across when I'm
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Speaker 2: up there lecturing. So that's that's that's my style. I
3:34
Speaker 2: would much rather prefer to be more of a storyteller
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Speaker 2: or convey some sense of the history that kind of
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Speaker 2: inspires the students to continue the hard work rather than
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Speaker 2: just give them a bunch of facts and figures the memorize.
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Speaker 1: And I think that that perspective and that kind of
3:55
Speaker 1: lens through which you look at all this is it's
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Speaker 1: like relevant like for me as a corporate speaker, it's
4:02
Speaker 1: very relevant, you know, for teachers in what we call
4:06
Speaker 1: primary school or high school, or for university professors like you,
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Speaker 1: or it's like, I think, what is the point of
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Speaker 1: me standing up here just banging out information and data
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Speaker 1: and science and whatever, even if it's all one hundred
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Speaker 1: percent true, If there's zero inspiration, if there's no stories,
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Speaker 1: there's no kind of light and shade, there's no humor
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Speaker 1: ever for me anyway, I think, then there's no connection.
4:34
Speaker 1: If I'm not creating connection with the people in front
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Speaker 1: of me, then this is definitely not going to land
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Speaker 1: the way that I want it to and will be
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Speaker 1: of value to them. So when I coach speakers, and
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Speaker 1: one of the things, one of the really simple frameworks
4:50
Speaker 1: or kind of I guess models I work through is
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Speaker 1: like these four things, I go, what is the thing
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Speaker 1: that you want to teach? So just give me a
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Speaker 1: snapshot of the thing or the eye that you want
5:01
Speaker 1: to teach this group. And then what is a story
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Speaker 1: that you have about that concept or that truth or
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Speaker 1: that insight. Tell me a story about that. That's number two.
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Speaker 1: Number three is why does this matter?
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Speaker 2: Like?
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Speaker 1: Why is this important? And Number four is what do
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Speaker 1: we do with it? How do we apply it, how
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Speaker 1: do we operationalize it? So the theory might become something
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Speaker 1: that steps into the practical realm where, okay, you understand
5:27
Speaker 1: the theory of getting in shape, now let's take that
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Speaker 1: theory and get in shape. So yeah, I And also
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Speaker 1: the constant feedback that I have received over decades is
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Speaker 1: like people never come up to me two years after
5:45
Speaker 1: or three years after an event or a workshop and say,
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Speaker 1: you know those statistics that you shared on childhood over it.
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Speaker 3: They never say that, Oh they blew me away. I've
5:57
Speaker 3: been thinking about.
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Speaker 1: But what they do is they come up and they
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Speaker 1: you know that story that you told about the year
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Speaker 1: eight swimming sports where you were ninety kilograms. You were
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Speaker 1: the fattes kid in school. Your name was Jumbo, and
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Speaker 1: you had a bit of an emotional and a social
6:11
Speaker 1: meltdown and you were embarrassed and humiliated, and that was
6:14
Speaker 1: kind of a catalyst for you to go and do
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Speaker 1: this and that, and like there wass like you were
6:19
Speaker 1: talking to.
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Speaker 3: Me about me, Da da da.
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Speaker 1: It's always people always come up and if they're going
6:25
Speaker 1: to share something about a previous interaction or experience, with me,
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Speaker 1: it's about something that made them laugh a lot, or
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Speaker 1: it's about something that hit them emotionally, and it's always
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Speaker 1: a story. And so if you can teach somebody, So
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Speaker 1: if I was going to, for example, talk about childhood obesity,
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Speaker 1: which is not really what I do a lot, but
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Speaker 1: every now and then, we might open that door. But
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Speaker 1: rather than just banging out you know, in the nineteen eighties,
6:51
Speaker 1: this is where we were, and over the last forty
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Speaker 1: five years, this is the evolution or the devolution of whatever.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So I think that ability to know what you're talking about,
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Speaker 1: have good knowledge, but more importantly help others have a
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Speaker 1: light bulb moment like that is that is a skill.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's when the lightning bolt hits and the
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Speaker 2: four principles you outlined. It's so funny because you and
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Speaker 2: I have very different audiences, but we use virtually the
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Speaker 2: same technique to engage them. And I think that speaks
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Speaker 2: to something universal about the way the human mind evolved
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Speaker 2: and the fact that we're a social species that has evolved,
7:35
Speaker 2: you know, telling stories around the campfire in order to
7:39
Speaker 2: remember things that were critical for survival. So when we
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Speaker 2: tell stories, and especially emotional ones or humorous ones. That's glue, harps.
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Speaker 2: That's what makes things stick. And I think students do
7:55
Speaker 2: far better when they have a lecturer who can make
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Speaker 2: things stick, rather than just trying to write something ten
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Speaker 2: times and hope you memorize it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so true.
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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of stories, I told.
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Speaker 3: You before we went live, I was very excited about.
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Speaker 1: Today because so doctor Bill wrote an article for Psychology today,
8:20
Speaker 1: which was a couple of months ago.
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Speaker 3: It went up, I think, am I right?
8:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just a month or two.
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Speaker 1: It's pretty recent, So it's pretty recent, but it's about
8:29
Speaker 1: It kind of revolves around three parables or stories.
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Speaker 3: We won't have time probably.
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Speaker 1: To get through all of them today, but we're going
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Speaker 1: to start with one. And I want to unpack this
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Speaker 1: because there's so much to come out of it. And
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Speaker 1: if you'd let me indulge, can I read the parable
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Speaker 1: and then you just take it from there?
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Speaker 2: Oh? By all means you're probably a much better narrator
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Speaker 2: than I am. So I think that's a great idea.
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Speaker 1: Some of you might have heard this. It's called the
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Speaker 1: Parable of the Chinese Farmer. There once was a farmer
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Speaker 1: whose only horse ran away. His neighbors offered condolences. That's
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Speaker 1: so unfortunate, they lamented. The farmer shrugged and replied maybe.
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Speaker 1: The next day's horse returned, bringing several wild horses with it.
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Speaker 1: The neighbors exclaimed, Oh wow, what a stroke of good luck.
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Speaker 1: The farmer replied maybe. The next day, the farmer's son
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Speaker 1: broke his leg when he was thrown from one of
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Speaker 1: the new horses while trying to tame it. The neighbors cried, oh,
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Speaker 1: your poor boy, that's such a terrible thing to happen. Again,
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Speaker 1: the farmer replied maybe. The next day, soldiers came to
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Speaker 1: the farmer's door. They explained that the country was at
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Speaker 1: war and all the boys were required to fight, but
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Speaker 1: since his son had a broken leg, he was allowed
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Speaker 1: to stay home. What good news for you and your family,
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Speaker 1: the neighbors said. The farmer replied maybe. This ancient Taoist
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Speaker 1: story reminds us that life's events are just that events
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Speaker 1: our perception. Our perception labels them as good or bad,
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Speaker 1: but our perception can change depending on how the future unfaults.
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Speaker 1: Some events we think are bad turn out to benefit us,
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Speaker 1: and some we think are good ending up hurting us.
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Speaker 3: The future is uncertain, so.
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Speaker 1: Refrain from jumping to conclusions and take it as it comes.
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Speaker 1: So that's kind of the well, that's a bit tagged
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Speaker 1: on the end by you.
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Speaker 3: But if something's good.
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Speaker 1: Or bad, there's so much about well in what concepts
10:41
Speaker 1: and for who? And like something I might call an opportunity, Oh, Craig,
10:46
Speaker 1: We've got this amazing speaking gig for you, heaps of people,
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Speaker 1: it's lots of money, it's just down the road. I'm like, oh,
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Speaker 1: this is amazing. Someone else that would be the most
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Speaker 1: terrifying event of all time. But I love that sometimes
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Speaker 1: something happens and when like this is bad, turns out
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Speaker 1: it's not bad. And also, like one of the other
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Speaker 1: things is sometimes we're going through the middle of something
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Speaker 1: that is seemingly unfair, uncomfortable, unwarranted, uncertain.
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Speaker 3: All the uns, I call them all the uns.
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Speaker 1: But in the middle of all of that we kind
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Speaker 1: of learn and grow and evolve because we're constantly dealing
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Speaker 1: with hard things or in that moment and making hard
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Speaker 1: decisions under pressure and trying to navigate and problem solve
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Speaker 1: and survive and thrive in the middle of the thing
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Speaker 1: that we didn't want.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, first off, well done, give you a little
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Speaker 2: round of applies that was a very good rendering of
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Speaker 2: this ancient taois parable, and it's a wonderful little story.
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Speaker 2: I mean, there is so much wisdom packed in to
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Speaker 2: those few paragraphs that I think psychologists could write an
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Speaker 2: entire book just unpacking this one little story. And when
12:10
Speaker 2: you think that this was written at least two thousand
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Speaker 2: years ago, maybe longer, and it still resonates with us
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Speaker 2: today in our modern world, really speaks to the universal
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Speaker 2: message that is contained within this parable, and that's like,
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Speaker 2: chill out, don't worry. The future is unwritten. You really
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Speaker 2: don't know whether something that happened to you is going
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Speaker 2: to be good, bad, or neutral. Yes, so don't stress
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Speaker 2: about it. And that's what I love about this parable.
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Speaker 2: And that's why I preface this article as being advice
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Speaker 2: that I tell my kids. I told my kids all
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Speaker 2: three of these parables as they were growing up as
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Speaker 2: young adults as kind of preparation for the real world
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Speaker 2: out there, because school really doesn't educate you in these
13:00
Speaker 2: sorts of matters, and I think that's a gap that
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Speaker 2: we should fill. But that's probably a story for another day.
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Speaker 2: But I think especially young people need to absorb the
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Speaker 2: lessons here because when I was a young man, I
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Speaker 2: would get so frustrated, so stressed out when things happened
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Speaker 2: to me that weren't going according to what I thought
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Speaker 2: was my plan. You know, I had a vision for
13:25
Speaker 2: how things should be going. And course life is going
13:29
Speaker 2: to throw curve balls. We're always warned about that, but
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Speaker 2: we don't like it when it happens. So you can
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Speaker 2: have a much calmer, happier life if you can train
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Speaker 2: yourself to treat events as neutral. You know, they're not positive,
13:52
Speaker 2: they're not negative. The future is going to determine that,
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Speaker 2: so you just have to be confident that whatever unfolds,
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Speaker 2: you're going to be able to handle it. And I
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Speaker 2: think this parable gives us the wisdom to do so
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Speaker 2: because this farmer, depending on how you're looking at it,
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Speaker 2: he either went through hell or he had a blessing,
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Speaker 2: but you don't know which is which until the future
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Speaker 2: starts to unfold.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love it.
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Speaker 1: It's one of those things that I think. So that
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Speaker 1: was written two thousand plus years ago, and you think
14:31
Speaker 1: about what, you know, the Stoics were talking about, like
14:34
Speaker 1: they were, you know, philosophers in some way, they were
14:37
Speaker 1: psychologists they were sociologists before those fields were invented, right,
14:42
Speaker 1: and now talking about all the same stuff we deal
14:46
Speaker 1: with now. You know, there's a scripture in the Bible,
14:48
Speaker 1: in the New Testament that says, basically, it says worrying
14:54
Speaker 1: doesn't help you, but it says, who by taking thought
14:57
Speaker 1: can add one cubit to his stature? Right, that's in
15:00
Speaker 1: the King James. It's like, like, what's in your control?
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Speaker 1: This is what I say to people all the time.
15:04
Speaker 1: What's in your control? What's not in your control? Okay,
15:07
Speaker 1: so that thing isn't in your control? How much of
15:11
Speaker 1: your physical, mental, and emotional energy are you investing in
15:15
Speaker 1: that thing that you can't control. This is not a judgment,
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Speaker 1: This is an observation. This is an exercise in self awareness.
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Speaker 1: The next question is cool, what is in your control?
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Speaker 3: Well?
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Speaker 1: What I do today? What I think about today, what
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Speaker 1: I give my attention to do to today, what choices
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Speaker 1: I make today? My behavior today?
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Speaker 3: Right?
15:42
Speaker 1: And it is I think it is innately totally understandably
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Speaker 1: fear driven human normality that we obsess and worry and
15:53
Speaker 1: overthink things that aren't probably going to happen, but even
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Speaker 1: if they do, you generally survive if not thrive, if
16:02
Speaker 1: not learn, Like, how do we as humans? The human
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Speaker 1: like everyone who listens to this show? Most people, if
16:12
Speaker 1: not everyone, they listen because they want to on some
16:15
Speaker 1: level learn, grow, adapt, evolve, become a better version or
16:20
Speaker 1: a more capable or a more resilient.
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Speaker 3: Version of what they currently are.
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Speaker 1: But the thing is that does not happen unless we
16:31
Speaker 1: intersect with hard stuff. That's right, if we are constantly
16:35
Speaker 1: on the metaphoric couch with our metaphoric feet up. Dudes,
16:40
Speaker 1: you're not growing, you're not building resilience, you're not getting strong,
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Speaker 1: You're avoiding. It's like you can't get good at what
16:47
Speaker 1: you avoid. You can't become great at playing the piano
16:50
Speaker 1: by reading books about the piano.
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Speaker 3: You've got to get on the piow. You know.
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Speaker 1: I just love the commonality between three two and a
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Speaker 1: half thousand years ago and now we think we really evolved.
17:03
Speaker 1: Now everything else has evolved around this con of but
17:05
Speaker 1: we haven't evolved that much what con.
17:07
Speaker 3: Of the sign.
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Speaker 2: It's funny how we keep rediscovering the wheel like this,
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Speaker 2: that even after all this time, that the millennia humanity
17:17
Speaker 2: still hasn't gotten the memo that this is a really
17:20
Speaker 2: good way to look at the events in your life,
17:24
Speaker 2: you know. And you're right about striking parallels to Stoicism,
17:29
Speaker 2: you know, which was developed by the ancient Greeks and
17:32
Speaker 2: then the Romans around the same time, but in a
17:35
Speaker 2: very different place in the world, where these communities had
17:38
Speaker 2: no way of knowing what the other one was up to.
17:42
Speaker 2: There's similar passages in the Bible, as you've already alluded to.
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Speaker 2: Confucius came up with some wisdom that parallels this, so
17:50
Speaker 2: it was like discovered convergently around the world around the
17:55
Speaker 2: same time. Yes, this really wonderful piece of psychological advice,
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Speaker 2: and you and I are talking about it in front
18:02
Speaker 2: of people who probably still never heard this parable and
18:06
Speaker 2: maybe never heard this wisdom. So yeah, it's pretty remarkable,
18:11
Speaker 2: and I'm glad that we're able to talk about it
18:13
Speaker 2: in this context because I do believe that this could
18:16
Speaker 2: be a message that can change someone's life radically and rapidly.
18:23
Speaker 2: I wish I knew this advice when I was a
18:25
Speaker 2: young man. I would have had a much more you know,
18:30
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say care free, you know, that's not the
18:32
Speaker 2: message that's coming across here, But it's a much better
18:36
Speaker 2: mental attitude for treating adversity that comes along in your life.
18:41
Speaker 2: As you said before, and as the stoics articulated, it's
18:44
Speaker 2: the dichotomy of control. There are some events that you
18:48
Speaker 2: can control and a lot of them that you can't.
18:52
Speaker 2: You can pour immense amount of time, effort, and resources
18:56
Speaker 2: into trying to change something that is not in your control,
19:02
Speaker 2: when you could be channeling all that energy into something
19:05
Speaker 2: that you can control. And one of the things you
19:09
Speaker 2: can always control is your reaction to events. And that's
19:14
Speaker 2: what this Chinese farmer was was doing expertly. He recognized that,
19:20
Speaker 2: you know, if his horse ran away, oh that was
19:23
Speaker 2: beyond my control. All my boy injured himself, wasn't within
19:28
Speaker 2: my control. But despite that, he could control his reaction,
19:32
Speaker 2: and his reaction was, well, this might be a good thing,
19:35
Speaker 2: might be a bad thing. I'm not going to stress
19:37
Speaker 2: about it, you know, I'll just prepare for what the
19:40
Speaker 2: future is going to do next. So that, I think
19:44
Speaker 2: is a much more intelligent and practical way to channel
19:50
Speaker 2: you know, the you know, our mental resources and our
19:53
Speaker 2: emotional resources. Focus on the things that can make a difference.
19:58
Speaker 2: Don't worry about the things that you can't change or
20:00
Speaker 2: don't have a high probability of changing.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let me ask you to talk about this.
20:07
Speaker 1: To me, it seems like a lot of the unhealthy
20:10
Speaker 1: reactions or responses come out of emotion, not critical thinking.
20:16
Speaker 1: And we are before critical thinkers. We're emotional reacbsolutely right.
20:21
Speaker 1: We're emotional beings right. We're driven by emotion, hopefully, we're
20:24
Speaker 1: driven by a bit of logic and rationale and wisdom
20:28
Speaker 1: and all those things. And so when someone feels an emotion,
20:33
Speaker 1: you can't turn that off.
20:34
Speaker 3: You don't go.
20:35
Speaker 1: It's like saying to someone who's worried, don't worry is
20:40
Speaker 1: about as helpful as telling someone who's tall not to
20:42
Speaker 1: be tall. So I will do it. If I could
20:45
Speaker 1: just switch the worry off, I would have switched it
20:47
Speaker 1: off twenty years ago. I'm worrying, so then my all right,
20:52
Speaker 1: So let's just stay there for a moment. You're so
20:55
Speaker 1: that the response that comes out of emotion, even though
20:59
Speaker 1: you probably know this is a fucking stupid response. But nonetheless,
21:03
Speaker 1: my body, my thinking is being hijacked by fear and
21:08
Speaker 1: all the things. So harps, you and your logic can
21:10
Speaker 1: fuck off.
21:11
Speaker 2: This is just where I am Yeah, well there there
21:15
Speaker 2: actually is a solution for that, and it's a little
21:18
Speaker 2: easier said than done. But you're absolutely right, and philosophers
21:22
Speaker 2: have agreed with you. We can't control the emotions that
21:26
Speaker 2: our body produces. That is a biochemical response. It's it's
21:31
Speaker 2: like an instinct or a reflex. So of course, if
21:34
Speaker 2: someone like cuts us off, okay, while we're driving down
21:39
Speaker 2: the highway, we might get this surge of heat running
21:42
Speaker 2: through our body. You know, if our eyes could shoot lasers,
21:46
Speaker 2: maybe they would.
21:49
Speaker 3: You know, can you work on that?
21:50
Speaker 1: That'll sell, That'll make you do.
21:52
Speaker 2: It, get right on that. But that that that could
21:55
Speaker 2: come back to bite me.
21:57
Speaker 1: I'll approve.
21:58
Speaker 3: I think I'll approve. It might be about ethical approve.
22:01
Speaker 2: It could be bad and like I said, it could
22:03
Speaker 2: come back to haunt me because I've accidentally cut people
22:07
Speaker 2: off and I'm sure they've gotten angry with me.
22:11
Speaker 1: Imagine geting killed your own invention.
22:14
Speaker 2: That's probably happened. You should do a podcast on that.
22:19
Speaker 2: Just google Darwin Awards and I'm sure you'll find an.
22:22
Speaker 3: Example of that. That's true.
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, but getting back to this emotional response, that we
22:29
Speaker 2: can't do anything about it. But Marcus Aurelius, one of
22:33
Speaker 2: the most famous Stoics, one of the greatest emperors of Rome,
22:38
Speaker 2: came up with the idea that we can control our
22:40
Speaker 2: reaction to that emotion. Yes, and while that looks easy
22:45
Speaker 2: to do on paper, it's hard to do it in
22:48
Speaker 2: practice because it takes training, it takes some mental fortitude,
22:52
Speaker 2: and that doesn't happen overnight. But I do want to
22:55
Speaker 2: reassure your listeners, and maybe you can chime in with
23:00
Speaker 2: your own experience in this matter, harps. But over time,
23:04
Speaker 2: you can train yourself to handle your emotions better. You
23:10
Speaker 2: can't stop them from occurring, you know, but you can
23:14
Speaker 2: manage them, and you can redirect energy into more productive
23:20
Speaker 2: outlets instead of going you know, let's go back to
23:24
Speaker 2: someone cuts you off on the highway. Of course, you're
23:28
Speaker 2: going to feel a little anger, maybe a little panic
23:31
Speaker 2: because you almost got it, an accident or whatever. You
23:34
Speaker 2: may feel intense, intense anger at this individual. But you
23:40
Speaker 2: can take a breath. Okay, you feel that emotion rising,
23:44
Speaker 2: but you can stop it. You can take a breath
23:47
Speaker 2: and think about it in another way. Reframe the situation.
23:52
Speaker 2: Maybe this person is dealing with an emergency. Okay, maybe
23:56
Speaker 2: they didn't see you. It was an honest mistake. You've
24:00
Speaker 2: cut people off before too, you know, so you know
24:03
Speaker 2: you're not innocent in this. So if you mal those
24:07
Speaker 2: things over, it distracts from the emotional anger and you know,
24:13
Speaker 2: the revenge that you want to execute on this person.
24:18
Speaker 2: It allows you to have a healthier response. You're, in
24:21
Speaker 2: other words, giving someone the benefit of the doubt. You're saying,
24:25
Speaker 2: you know you've committed this mistake to We're all human.
24:29
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal, no harm, no foul. Let's
24:32
Speaker 2: just go about our day and let it. Let's not
24:37
Speaker 2: let this incident disrupt our tranquility. And that is that's
24:42
Speaker 2: not doctor Bill talking. That's like Marcus Aurelia is talking.
24:45
Speaker 2: This is this is an ancient Stoic principle that I
24:50
Speaker 2: think helped make Marcus one of the greatest emperors of
24:53
Speaker 2: Rome because he was able to prevent himself from flying
24:58
Speaker 2: off the handle, having ten par tantrums and letting emotions
25:02
Speaker 2: get the best of him when he could just say
25:06
Speaker 2: came out, I'm we take a breath. I'm going to
25:08
Speaker 2: think about this emotional response that I'm experiencing, and I'm
25:14
Speaker 2: going to formulate a productive response rather than just yield
25:19
Speaker 2: to the emotion and you know, run wild with that.
25:24
Speaker 2: I'm going to collect myself, gather my thoughts, maybe take
25:28
Speaker 2: some time and think about a healthier response.
25:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it.
25:33
Speaker 1: I think in the middle of all of this that
25:36
Speaker 1: we're talking about is a real opportunity if we want
25:41
Speaker 1: to move forward in that way where we become less
25:44
Speaker 1: imprisoned or hijacked by our emotions. It's like almost two
25:52
Speaker 1: to do it. It's very hard to be objective about you,
25:55
Speaker 1: because you're you right obviously, but to open the door
26:00
Speaker 1: on self awareness and to us start to think about,
26:03
Speaker 1: like I think about this a lot, self awareness, self understanding.
26:07
Speaker 1: Okay I just did that. I wish I didn't do that.
26:10
Speaker 1: Why did I do that? Like I'm trying to understand
26:13
Speaker 1: what made me say that or do that or respond
26:15
Speaker 1: that way. Not that understanding fixes it, but understanding certainly
26:20
Speaker 1: helps being able to then plan or counteract or do
26:25
Speaker 1: better or think better. And I think.
26:29
Speaker 3: Also like a lot of the.
26:33
Speaker 1: Like when a lot of us get presented with something
26:35
Speaker 1: that's difficult, complex, like I said before, uncertain, uncomfortable, all
26:43
Speaker 1: those things that we don't want every time we and
26:47
Speaker 1: so therefore we spend our life trying to avoid everything
26:51
Speaker 1: that's that we can't predict or see or know. Like,
26:54
Speaker 1: I've got to know it. I've got to be safe
26:56
Speaker 1: all the time. I've got to know what's coming. I've
27:00
Speaker 1: got to know what questions you're going to ask me.
27:02
Speaker 1: I've got you know. It's like I get people on
27:04
Speaker 1: this show. I won't mention a name. They want me
27:08
Speaker 1: to email the questions. I'm like, no rules. I don't
27:16
Speaker 1: even know the questions till I say, Hi, everyone, welcome
27:20
Speaker 1: to the show. Because I don't other than you. Who
27:23
Speaker 1: sends me an article, I'll read it and I'll go cool.
27:26
Speaker 1: That's a great conversation starter because I'm not interviewing Bill.
27:30
Speaker 1: I'm chatting with Bill. We're friends. And people don't want
27:33
Speaker 1: to listen to question two, question three. People want to
27:36
Speaker 1: listen to us bullshit on and ramble and explore stuff
27:39
Speaker 1: and get stuff wrong and right and laugh and you know,
27:42
Speaker 1: so that whole.
27:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a whole different feel when things are scripted.
27:46
Speaker 2: I mean, it just doesn't come off as a normal conversation.
27:50
Speaker 1: Well, it's clunky and people know what's going on. That's
27:53
Speaker 1: not genuine. Hi, that's great, doctor Bill hah love your book.
28:01
Speaker 1: Pleased to meet me? You know, I don't know, but that,
28:05
Speaker 1: like for me, a lot of and the people I
28:08
Speaker 1: work with, I encourage them in an intelligent, not reckless
28:12
Speaker 1: way to go do shit that scares you. Because doing
28:16
Speaker 1: the shit that scares you grows you.
28:19
Speaker 3: It develops you.
28:20
Speaker 1: You build resilience and understanding and situational awareness, and all
28:24
Speaker 1: of a sudden the thing that used to hijack your
28:26
Speaker 1: body doesn't because.
28:29
Speaker 3: You have changed. So like for me, the personal.
28:32
Speaker 1: Development journey is not about what you end what you
28:36
Speaker 1: get at the end of the process. Oh, I set
28:39
Speaker 1: out to achieve this, cool, But who did you become
28:42
Speaker 1: along the way? Like for me, it's the doing, it's
28:46
Speaker 1: not the end thing. I think the gift is the journey,
28:49
Speaker 1: not the destination, which is cliche, but I truly.
28:53
Speaker 2: Believe that it might be cliche, but it is so true.
28:58
Speaker 2: And you, of all people know you can't build muscle
29:01
Speaker 2: without resistance. You know, you can't build muscle without some sweat.
29:06
Speaker 2: And if you just want a atrophy on the couch,
29:10
Speaker 2: that's just fine, But that's what you're going to be doing.
29:13
Speaker 2: You're not going to be improving your life if you
29:16
Speaker 2: don't go out and create or meet some challenges there are.
29:21
Speaker 2: Do you ever hear of Bill Irvine or William Irvine. Yeah,
29:26
Speaker 2: he's a modern day Stoic author. He wrote a wonderful
29:30
Speaker 2: book called The Good Life and the Stoic Test, and
29:34
Speaker 2: he treats challenges in life, both big and small, like
29:39
Speaker 2: some of the ones that this Chinese farmer faced in
29:42
Speaker 2: the parable. But you know, Bill cites things like, oh
29:47
Speaker 2: my flight was delayed, or traffic is really bad this afternoon, everyday,
29:52
Speaker 2: things that you and I can relate to. And he
29:55
Speaker 2: actually has trained himself to welcome these events because he's
29:59
Speaker 2: great for challenges big or small, because it's only through
30:03
Speaker 2: challenge that we grow and reflect and improve. That's what's
30:09
Speaker 2: going to make us better people, and it's what makes
30:12
Speaker 2: life interesting. Yes, you know you can. You can appreciate
30:18
Speaker 2: that when you hit challenges in life, even things as
30:21
Speaker 2: mind numbingly doll as traffic, you know, or a flight cancelation,
30:27
Speaker 2: if you are in the process of training yourself to
30:30
Speaker 2: being able to handle these adverse events more intelligently, less emotionally. Well, Hey,
30:37
Speaker 2: life is throwing opportunities at you all the time to
30:40
Speaker 2: show us what you got okay, show us you can
30:43
Speaker 2: handle this, rise to the challenge.
30:45
Speaker 3: And do it.
30:48
Speaker 1: I'm very cheekily I'm trying to find the yeah, right,
30:55
Speaker 1: here we go. So there was a study done by
30:57
Speaker 1: Lafrenier and Newman studied people with general anxiety disorder GAD
31:03
Speaker 1: have them record they're worries about like a lot of
31:06
Speaker 1: people worry about shit that isn't happening. It's not like, oh,
31:10
Speaker 1: there's this current problem. Oh no, there is no problem.
31:13
Speaker 1: But nonetheless I'm worried about the problem that might happen.
31:18
Speaker 2: So that's something you can't control.
31:21
Speaker 1: Well, you're literally investing energy in something that literally does
31:25
Speaker 1: not exist, Like you know, you are giving your physical, mental,
31:30
Speaker 1: and emotional energy today into that thing that you think
31:35
Speaker 1: could happen down the track that might be bad.
31:39
Speaker 3: So now your.
31:40
Speaker 1: Energy, you'll focus, your attention is not even in today,
31:43
Speaker 1: and today is the only fucking day that you can
31:46
Speaker 1: actually move the needle on anything like to all I
31:50
Speaker 1: can do is navigate today because you know, there is
31:53
Speaker 1: no hype.
31:56
Speaker 3: This fucks people's with people's brains a bit.
31:58
Speaker 1: But you know, like we never live in the future, right,
32:02
Speaker 1: because when next Wednesday happens it's the present, so it's
32:06
Speaker 1: our hypothetical construction or our you know, our idea about
32:12
Speaker 1: what might be. But anyway, I love this.
32:14
Speaker 3: So their research.
32:19
Speaker 1: Showed that ninety one point four percent of the things
32:23
Speaker 1: that people worry about their worry predictions never eventuate never,
32:29
Speaker 1: so ninety one point four Even more interesting, the most
32:35
Speaker 1: common result for individual participants was that one hundred percent
32:41
Speaker 1: of their worries failed to eventuate. No, there was another
32:46
Speaker 1: bit which isn't in here, but it was something like
32:53
Speaker 1: the of the problems that did eventuate, So it's about
32:56
Speaker 1: eight percent. Something like ninety percent of those things caused
33:02
Speaker 1: no harm, no problem, and people got through them quite easily.
33:05
Speaker 1: There's literally something like one percent turned out to be
33:10
Speaker 1: not much fun, but people got through them anyway. So
33:13
Speaker 1: we spend our time in the now worrying about at
33:16
Speaker 1: a ninety one point four percent right of things that
33:19
Speaker 1: will not happen in the future ever. Yeah, but then
33:23
Speaker 1: rationalize it because I need to be prepared or you know.
33:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we do the same thing with what we
33:30
Speaker 2: believe other people are thinking about us, which I think
33:33
Speaker 2: is even worse because you could be very wrong about
33:37
Speaker 2: what other people are thinking about you. And it really
33:39
Speaker 2: doesn't help. At the end of the day, they're going
33:42
Speaker 2: to think what they think. Let them think what they think.
33:45
Speaker 2: But what you're describing, and I love the fact that
33:48
Speaker 2: someone said, like ninety some percent of what we worry
33:52
Speaker 2: about never happens. But we do spend about ninety some
33:55
Speaker 2: percent of our time sitting and worrying about stuff. Right.
34:00
Speaker 2: Tang had a great quote about this. He was a
34:02
Speaker 2: French philosopher during I believe it was the Renaissance. He said,
34:08
Speaker 2: my life has been filled with terrible misfortune, most of
34:12
Speaker 2: which never happened.
34:14
Speaker 3: Ah, that is good. That go what And.
34:18
Speaker 2: Again, this is hundreds of years old, you know, and
34:22
Speaker 2: we're sitting here having a conversation about people making the
34:25
Speaker 2: same mistakes. Because we're all human. This is something wired
34:28
Speaker 2: into our brain. We're wired to worry. But we don't
34:33
Speaker 2: live the kind of life that our ancestors used to live.
34:38
Speaker 2: You know, they had to worry about acute episodes of distress.
34:43
Speaker 2: You know, maybe there was a lion walking nearby, or
34:47
Speaker 2: you know, they're very hungry and needed to find some food.
34:50
Speaker 2: Their stress was short term and acute. Our stresses are
34:54
Speaker 2: chronic because we can't shut off the brakes through the
34:58
Speaker 2: worry system in our brain, and we have wonderful tools
35:02
Speaker 2: from these philosophers and religious figures who have tapped into
35:08
Speaker 2: some psychological tools very early on as humans we're developing
35:15
Speaker 2: and settling down into civilizations. That it's really worth the
35:19
Speaker 2: time to go back and read some of these read
35:23
Speaker 2: the wisdom of these individuals, because I think it's even
35:26
Speaker 2: more applicable today in our oversaturated realms where we see
35:32
Speaker 2: global news twenty four to seven every single minute of
35:35
Speaker 2: the day, catastrophic events happening all around us, and you think,
35:41
Speaker 2: you know, the entire world must be on fire, but
35:44
Speaker 2: then you look out your window and it's sunny and
35:47
Speaker 2: the birds are singing, and it's really nice outside. Don't
35:51
Speaker 2: neglect that. I'm not saying turn a blind eye to
35:54
Speaker 2: terrible things in the world, but if it's outside of
35:57
Speaker 2: your control, you can't really worry about it. Do what
36:01
Speaker 2: you can, but don't deprive yourself of the joys and
36:06
Speaker 2: the blessings that every single day hold. Like you said earlier, Harps,
36:12
Speaker 2: the only moment that truly exists is the present is
36:18
Speaker 2: right now. You can think about the past, but you're
36:21
Speaker 2: living in a realm of ghosts, or you can think
36:23
Speaker 2: about the future, which is a realm of imagination, neither
36:27
Speaker 2: of which are tangibly real. The present is all that matters.
36:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and trying to appreciate that in real time
36:38
Speaker 1: is intellectually easy, but emotionally like, oh yeah, I get that,
36:44
Speaker 1: but nonetheless, Time'm still worried.
36:45
Speaker 3: I think.
36:46
Speaker 1: Also another interesting point in all of this is that
36:52
Speaker 1: you know what will work, Like we talk about what
36:54
Speaker 1: will work for someone with diet might't work for the
36:56
Speaker 1: next person, or what will work the best workout for
36:59
Speaker 1: Bill won't be the best workout for Craig because Craig
37:01
Speaker 1: and Bill.
37:02
Speaker 3: Got different genetics and so on, Right, But I also.
37:04
Speaker 1: Think this, this ability to understand us and manage us
37:12
Speaker 1: is a really it's like A and B works for Bill,
37:15
Speaker 1: c and D works for Craig. It's not like, oh,
37:18
Speaker 1: what's the problem, you're worried. Cool, here's the answer, Like,
37:21
Speaker 1: it doesn't work like that. There's got to be self
37:25
Speaker 1: awareness around, like there are some situations which would make
37:28
Speaker 1: me nervous or uncomfortable, and then other which would make
37:35
Speaker 1: other people not that, And then, like somebody said to
37:40
Speaker 1: me the other day after my dad's funeral, So that
37:44
Speaker 1: was Friday.
37:45
Speaker 3: We're now Monday, and.
37:48
Speaker 1: I, you know, they said, like, you are so comfortable
37:52
Speaker 1: up there, don't you aren't you terrified before you get up?
37:56
Speaker 1: I go, I'm way more comfortable up there than sitting
37:59
Speaker 1: in the seat.
38:00
Speaker 2: Wow, that probably took them by surprise.
38:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, I'm more comfortable, not because of my
38:07
Speaker 1: ego or whatever, but I'm just so used to being
38:09
Speaker 1: up there. It's my natural habitat. So now I'm talking,
38:13
Speaker 1: but I would rather be here doing this than sitting
38:16
Speaker 1: in that seat listening. I don't enjoy it so much.
38:19
Speaker 1: That's probably a flaw of mine. But I think that
38:23
Speaker 1: just knowing trying to understand it, and it might not
38:26
Speaker 1: just be fear based stuff. But I remember saying something
38:30
Speaker 1: to someone last week. It doesn't matter what it was,
38:32
Speaker 1: but somebody that is quite an impressive person. I was
38:35
Speaker 1: chatting with them, to me impressive, and I said something
38:39
Speaker 1: and it was pure ego and insecurity because as it
38:42
Speaker 1: came out of my mouth, I wanted to pull it
38:46
Speaker 1: back in because I realized I was trying to impress them,
38:50
Speaker 1: and then I kind of then I you know, we
38:53
Speaker 1: kept going on and it wasn't particularly awkward. Or clumsy,
38:57
Speaker 1: but I realized what I was doing, and then I
39:00
Speaker 1: spent you know, not all day, but I spent a
39:02
Speaker 1: bit of time later thinking why did I do that?
39:04
Speaker 3: Why do I still do that? Sometimes?
39:07
Speaker 1: Why do I care about that? You know, if they
39:11
Speaker 1: like me nice, If they don't like me, that's fine,
39:13
Speaker 1: But why am I? And we see this even on
39:16
Speaker 1: social media, trying to get approval of people we've never
39:18
Speaker 1: met and we'll never meet, and trying to get them
39:21
Speaker 1: to like us. And you know, one person sends a
39:24
Speaker 1: negative comment ninety nine cent a positive comment, all my
39:28
Speaker 1: energy goes on the one.
39:29
Speaker 3: What is that about? You know?
39:31
Speaker 1: But this is almost how we're wired.
39:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was just a book I was reading about
39:38
Speaker 2: that called the Mattering Instinct. Wow, and it's by Rebecca Goldstein.
39:45
Speaker 2: And the psychological explanation for what you're talking about their craig,
39:51
Speaker 2: which is universal, that happens to everybody. But we all
39:54
Speaker 2: want to matter, you know, we all want to have
39:57
Speaker 2: this sense of importance and me in our lives because
40:01
Speaker 2: back when we were in small tribes on the savannah,
40:07
Speaker 2: it was really important to show the people who were
40:10
Speaker 2: close to you that you were cooperating, that you were
40:13
Speaker 2: a team player, and that you were pulling your weight
40:16
Speaker 2: in the tribe. If not, you could have risked excommunication
40:21
Speaker 2: or exile from the individuals in that group. So we
40:26
Speaker 2: are biologically compelled to at least show our worth to
40:31
Speaker 2: those who matter the most. Now we have social media
40:36
Speaker 2: where that compulsion now becomes pathological because we're trying to
40:41
Speaker 2: impress a bunch of strangers who we will never meet,
40:44
Speaker 2: who really don't mean anything in our personal lives. And
40:48
Speaker 2: I would say, you're just better off severing yourself from
40:52
Speaker 2: that sort of worry. We were not designed to deal
40:57
Speaker 2: with that aspect of social media. Focus on the people
41:03
Speaker 2: in your own circle, in your own life. Those are
41:06
Speaker 2: the ones that should be mattering to you the most,
41:09
Speaker 2: and those are the ones if you're going to be
41:11
Speaker 2: worried about what anybody thinks about you, those are the
41:14
Speaker 2: people who I think you want to rely on, you know,
41:17
Speaker 2: your close friends and family, not some rando stranger on
41:22
Speaker 2: social media.
41:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting thinking about you know, back when we
41:28
Speaker 1: were in tribes of one forty or whatever dune bars
41:32
Speaker 1: number is one forty or one fifty, and then earlier
41:35
Speaker 1: something like that, Yeah, earlier on evolutionarily, when we're you know,
41:39
Speaker 1: like literally caves and dinosaurs and whatever where no dinosaurs,
41:44
Speaker 1: no dinosaurs, they know they didn't exist. They are true,
41:50
Speaker 1: that is absolutely no, no different times.
41:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, don't talk in sixty five million, yeah yeah, yeah, no,
41:55
Speaker 2: goods is one hundred thousand or so.
41:58
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, that's why we've got you. But back when,
42:02
Speaker 1: like our existence was extremely different.
42:06
Speaker 3: To dinosaurs, that would have been cool.
42:08
Speaker 1: Though clearly you haven't seen Jurassic Parks, so you haven't
42:12
Speaker 1: done all the research. Do better, But back when, you know,
42:17
Speaker 1: tigers and whatever, right, and so our brain kind of
42:21
Speaker 1: had to be hyper vigilant, like we had to be,
42:26
Speaker 1: you know, super duper aware and focused and attentive, whereas
42:32
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six or they're zuber eats, you know,
42:39
Speaker 1: you know all the things that like our world is,
42:44
Speaker 1: I mean, it depends where, but it's not. We individuals
42:48
Speaker 1: typically are not at the same risk that we were
42:51
Speaker 1: thousands of years ago.
42:53
Speaker 3: But maybe that brain.
42:56
Speaker 1: Development has kind of carried on, or maybe that that
42:59
Speaker 1: that threat detector that we really needed we don't need
43:04
Speaker 1: so much now.
43:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you think about it, that threat detector
43:10
Speaker 2: was for genuinely life threatening events. Yeah, you know, then
43:15
Speaker 2: as we evolved into social animals, that threat detection system
43:20
Speaker 2: started to be co opted to what do these other
43:24
Speaker 2: people think about me? Because my position in the tribe
43:27
Speaker 2: is going to dictate how much resources I get, and
43:30
Speaker 2: that's going to dictate how many mates I get, and
43:33
Speaker 2: that's going to dictate how often I reproduce. Because at
43:36
Speaker 2: the end of the day, that's all life is truly about.
43:39
Speaker 2: From a biological perspective. Yes, so in our modern world, though,
43:46
Speaker 2: we are inundated with all sorts of non life threatening
43:51
Speaker 2: stresses and we have to get much better. If you
43:55
Speaker 2: want to get through this life sane and happy, you
43:59
Speaker 2: have to learn how to discriminate one stress from another,
44:03
Speaker 2: a meaningful stress versus something that you should it's not
44:07
Speaker 2: a battle worth fighting. And if we go back to
44:10
Speaker 2: the parable again, I think there's some really good wisdom there.
44:13
Speaker 2: You can streamline which things you truly need to worry about,
44:18
Speaker 2: you know, as they happen. Just because an event unfolds
44:22
Speaker 2: unexpected to your plans, or you know, it seems disruptive
44:26
Speaker 2: to your life, hold the phone. Maybe it's not going
44:29
Speaker 2: to be so bad. Let's see what happens, and trust
44:33
Speaker 2: that you have the wherewithal and the support that whatever
44:37
Speaker 2: does come down the pike, you're going to.
44:39
Speaker 3: Get through it.
44:41
Speaker 2: There's another wonderful book along these lines Harps, called Don't
44:45
Speaker 2: Sweat the Small Stuff, and in parentheses, it's all small
44:49
Speaker 2: stuff because life is short, and at the end of
44:52
Speaker 2: the day, if you just spend all of your moments
44:55
Speaker 2: worrying about the past or the future, life's going to
44:58
Speaker 2: completely pass you by and you're going to miss out
45:01
Speaker 2: on all the joys that there are to offer every day.
45:06
Speaker 2: I think I'll get a little bit of an advantage
45:08
Speaker 2: because I'm a scientist, right and we are trained to
45:12
Speaker 2: We're trained to expect being unexpected because when we're in
45:15
Speaker 2: the laboratory and we're generating hypotheses about how something works,
45:21
Speaker 2: more often than not we're wrong. So we go into
45:24
Speaker 2: the lab, we set up a well controlled experiment, and
45:28
Speaker 2: we set out to prove our hypothesis or disprove it,
45:32
Speaker 2: and we see something very unusual that kind of hints
45:37
Speaker 2: that we might be wrong. But this unexpected result might
45:43
Speaker 2: be something really important, a brand new discovery that we
45:46
Speaker 2: didn't even imagine because we didn't have the knowledge. And
45:51
Speaker 2: that has happened multiple times in my career, a student
45:54
Speaker 2: would bring a result back from an experiment that I
45:57
Speaker 2: expected to go a certain way and the student said
46:01
Speaker 2: it didn't work. But I saw this, and instead of
46:05
Speaker 2: getting angry or you know, blame the student for doing
46:09
Speaker 2: something wrong, take a look at the data and lo
46:13
Speaker 2: and behold. More often than not, this is a sign
46:16
Speaker 2: post towards something even more interesting than what we were
46:20
Speaker 2: working on. So that's, you know, if you have an
46:25
Speaker 2: approach to life's events analogous to how a scientist handles
46:29
Speaker 2: unexpected phenomenon. Yes, who knows what you can discover? You know,
46:35
Speaker 2: I can paint a little personal picture here from how
46:38
Speaker 2: I met my wife. It was just a random encounter
46:40
Speaker 2: in a pub, in an Irish pub in Philadelphia one day.
46:44
Speaker 2: And to think, you know, I was not going to
46:48
Speaker 2: go out to the pub that night. Okay, I had
46:50
Speaker 2: no plans. I had a long, hard day. I just
46:53
Speaker 2: wanted to go home and relax. And someone calls me
46:58
Speaker 2: on the phone and says, you got to go out
47:00
Speaker 2: tonight and entertain the new students that are here, show
47:04
Speaker 2: them a good time. We're trying to recruit them. I
47:06
Speaker 2: don't want to do this. I'm really tired, but I
47:10
Speaker 2: was talked into doing so, and it's really mind boggling
47:14
Speaker 2: to think about this, Harps. But if I didn't do that,
47:18
Speaker 2: if I didn't do this thing that I didn't want
47:20
Speaker 2: to do, I would not have had the chance encounter
47:24
Speaker 2: where I bumped into a woman who would later become
47:27
Speaker 2: my wife and give me two wonderful kids. And I
47:31
Speaker 2: tell that story to my children. I said, you literally
47:33
Speaker 2: would not exist, you know, if that disruption in my
47:37
Speaker 2: life never happened. So it speaks to the wisdom of
47:44
Speaker 2: that parable take it on in stride. You know, you
47:48
Speaker 2: might meet the person agree.
47:50
Speaker 1: You are the byproduct of the thing I didn't want.
47:52
Speaker 3: To do.
47:55
Speaker 2: That night I didn't want to go out right, I
47:57
Speaker 2: would have never met your mother. Yes, yeah, had things
48:01
Speaker 2: gone a different way, it's pretty profound to think about
48:05
Speaker 2: because you can turn that story on yourself. You know,
48:08
Speaker 2: there are probably a million things that happened to my
48:12
Speaker 2: parents or their parents, and if it would have went
48:16
Speaker 2: left instead of right, I may never have been born.
48:20
Speaker 2: You know who knows?
48:22
Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, I have a like a never ending series
48:25
Speaker 1: of those in my life because you know, like when
48:30
Speaker 1: I was I had this moment which you've heard about
48:32
Speaker 1: my listeners have heard too many times.
48:34
Speaker 3: But when I was an.
48:35
Speaker 1: Obese kid and I had to swim at the swimming
48:38
Speaker 1: sports and get disrobed and all of that, and I
48:40
Speaker 1: was it was it.
48:41
Speaker 3: Was such a.
48:43
Speaker 1: Such an uncomfortable, horrible experience for me. Although it seems
48:47
Speaker 1: somewhat insignificant now, but you know that, I went, Oh,
48:52
Speaker 1: that's it. I'm never going to look like this again.
48:54
Speaker 1: I'm never going to feel I'm never going to get
48:56
Speaker 1: embarrassed like that. I'm never going to stand up looking
48:58
Speaker 1: the way that turn into something positive, you know. And
49:03
Speaker 1: even with this podcast, the first six hundred episodes cost
49:10
Speaker 1: me tens of thousands of dollars because we didn't have
49:13
Speaker 1: a sponsor, we didn't have a media partner like we
49:16
Speaker 1: do now, thank you Nover. We didn't have media partner,
49:19
Speaker 1: we didn't have sponsors, and I wasn't very good. But
49:24
Speaker 1: how do you get good? Will you get good by
49:26
Speaker 1: not being good and then working?
49:30
Speaker 3: You know? How do you become a black belt?
49:31
Speaker 1: Will you start as a white belt and you've got
49:33
Speaker 1: no skill, no knowledge, no awareness, and everyone beats the
49:36
Speaker 1: shit out of you, and then five years later you
49:38
Speaker 1: might be a blue belt. If you're doing jiu jitsu
49:41
Speaker 1: or a purple belt or whatever, you know. But the
49:44
Speaker 1: way that you become a black belt is pain. Is pain,
49:50
Speaker 1: and it's time, and it's effort, and it's consistency, and
49:53
Speaker 1: it's being comfortable, not being good. I'm not good at this,
49:58
Speaker 1: that's okay. I don't have much that's okay. I don't
50:01
Speaker 1: have much experience. That's okay. That's your job is to
50:06
Speaker 1: go do that. Like, if you want this outcome, the
50:08
Speaker 1: black belt or the metaphoric black belt, then this is
50:12
Speaker 1: the path. There's not another path, you know, as in,
50:16
Speaker 1: you can't go play tennis and they'll give you a
50:18
Speaker 1: black belt in jiu jitsu. No, dude, you need to
50:21
Speaker 1: be on the mat. You need to get your ass
50:23
Speaker 1: handed to you for about three years. Then you can
50:26
Speaker 1: probably start to do it to a few others and
50:28
Speaker 1: then eventually and it could be literally or metaphorically, but
50:33
Speaker 1: it's just that, oh yeah, this is I nearly gave
50:36
Speaker 1: up a few times on this show, and then I thought,
50:39
Speaker 1: but how do I get good? Well, I don't get
50:40
Speaker 1: you good by not doing it, so, you know, and
50:44
Speaker 1: hopefully years later I'm not terrible at it.
50:48
Speaker 2: I think I speak for all of your listeners that
50:51
Speaker 2: were very grateful that you didn't throw in the towel
50:53
Speaker 2: early on.
50:55
Speaker 1: Thanks mate, and I'm glad you didn't throw it in.
50:57
Speaker 1: The article is called three Ancient Parables I told my
51:00
Speaker 1: kids to make adulting easier. I love that title. It's
51:05
Speaker 1: on Psychology Today. Doctor Bill Sullivan is the author of that.
51:09
Speaker 1: Go check it out. We're going to unpack the two
51:11
Speaker 1: remaining stories over the next two chats that we have.
51:17
Speaker 3: What's the.
51:19
Speaker 1: I forget, Please to meet me? What's the bit before
51:22
Speaker 1: that on your book title?
51:24
Speaker 2: Oh? The bit after that? Please?
51:26
Speaker 1: After that?
51:28
Speaker 2: Please to meet me? Jeames, Germs and the curious forces
51:31
Speaker 2: that make us who we are. And if people want
51:34
Speaker 2: a link to the article we've been talking about tonight,
51:36
Speaker 2: or any of the other things that I have written,
51:39
Speaker 2: they can go to author Bill Sullivan dot com.
51:44
Speaker 3: Mate.
51:44
Speaker 1: I love catching up with you.
51:45
Speaker 3: You're a good man.
51:46
Speaker 1: Thank you for the words of encouragement and kindness before
51:49
Speaker 1: the show started. Enjoy this is the It's the end
51:55
Speaker 1: of summer for you, right. You're coming towards what you
51:57
Speaker 1: call for. We call autumn.
52:00
Speaker 2: You coming here, We are getting there, and I personally
52:03
Speaker 2: call it autumn. It's my favorite season of the year here.
52:07
Speaker 1: Perfect well mate, we'll say goodbye a fair bet again.
52:10
Speaker 3: Thank you so.
52:11
Speaker 2: Much, my pleasure. Good to see you.