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Aaron Levisay on Healthcare Transparency, Reform, and Free Market Solutions · Scene Projects Sports Network

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  Today, we're joined by Aaron Levisay, a proud US military veteran who dedicated nearly thirty
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  years to service, retiring as a finance management supervisor.
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  He's also a family man, a decorated South Dakota Air National Guard honoree, and a voice
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  for faith, history, and constitutional conservatism.
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  Let's get into the show.
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  Following program is part of the Patriot Broadcasting Project brought to you by the seed
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  projects podcast network.
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  Welcome in to a very important episode of the Patriot Broadcasting Project.
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  I'm your host, Bubba Starts, and with me today is Aaron Levisay.
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  Aaron, welcome to the show.
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  Hey, Bubba.
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  How are doing?
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  I'm doing well.
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  I actually just got off the golf course, down in Niobrara to Tonka Golf Club, man.
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  I've had a great morning.
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  Awesome.
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  Awesome.
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  Yeah.
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  You're in good you're in a good mood then.
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  Yeah.
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  It was wonderful being able to go out and to shoot content content and and and support local
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  businesses, right, which is what we're all about.
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  But also supporting, you know, the truth, and that's really what the Patriot broadcasting,
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  project is all about.
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  Getting information out there that I think some, you know, some of our citizens of of, you
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  know, South Dakota and of the country, really, we're not as informed as we should be.
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  And you're really working on some great stuff, and I wanna give you the floor.
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  Just kinda give us a little bit of your backstory.
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  Obviously, we talked a little bit about it in the intro, but, give us a little bit of
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  backstory, and then we can talk about the awesome stuff that you're working on right now.
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  Oh, thanks, Bubba.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I'm just my name is Aaron Lavasay.
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  I was born, don't take don't hold this against me.
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  Was born in Iowa.
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  Both my parents are from Iowa.
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  But most of my life, I've lived in, South Dakota, lived Vermillion, Huron Pier, when I
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  was a kid, but then moved to Sioux Falls in 1980, and then I graduated from those that are
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  local here in Sioux Falls would know what's now the pavilion.
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  So that that shows you how how old I am, back, many years ago.
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  Then I got in the army, in the early nineties, and I was there for I was active duty, and then
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  I, transitioned over.
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  We moved back to South Dakota.
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  We kinda moved around a little bit.
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  Then I got into the South Dakota Air Guard.
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  And at first, I was just part time, but then it became full time, particularly after 09/11.
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  I deployed to various places over the over the world, particularly in The Middle East and the
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  Far East, Iraq from o seven to o eight got back, and then it was a full time gig.
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  So I took it, and then I retired in, 2021 there.
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  And so I've been retired since 2021, but as I'd like to tell people, you know, retirement looks
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  different for different people, and there's a whole lot more freedom to do, if that makes
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  sense.
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  So I've just been kind of trying to, now effect more freedom for our country and particularly
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  for our state in areas that it that it heretofore hasn't had.
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  And so I've been working with some legislators just to get legislation passed, for basically
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  some structural problems that we have in the state and actually on the national level, but
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  not to enact another subsidy or or mandate, but mainly to have free markets where we have a
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  lack of them.
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  No.
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  And you had sent me some really interesting material, about, some things that they've
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  they've actually had for quite a while, you know, in the state of New Hampshire that
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  actually makes it a free market.
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  And I think what a lot of people don't understand because we hear that term a lot.
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  But what we have and especially since I I I'm gonna assume it's since, you know, o eight and
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  Obamacare that it kind of gave the insurance companies a lot of oversight on what exactly we
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  pay for premiums.
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  And it gave them a lot of, you know, control over that, and we're not in a free market.
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  And I think a lot of people don't understand that at all.
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  And, actually, Bubba, it was it was actually that way before Obamacare.
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  Obamacare just basically doubled and tripled down on everything that was wrong, really going
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  back to the end of World War two.
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  And so in a in a blanket sense, essentially, what we had at the end of World War two is we
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  were trying to finish up beating Hitler and and Japan, rightfully so.
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  There was a bill which passed through congress that basically treated it was the it was the
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  McCarran Ferguson Act is what it was.
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  And it basically said, alright.
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  We realize you can't pay your war workers very much because we're we're under wage and price
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  controls because we're at a war.
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  Right?
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  So what we'll do is we'll allow businesses to deduct health insurance as, on taxes.
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  And while that's a sounds really good.
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  Right?
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  But the fact is ever since then, it's distorted everything to the point where hospitals,
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  insurance companies, doctors, dentists, everybody within actual health care provision
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  of some sort got and said, when you go to a hospital, when you go to that, not what does it
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  cost, but what's your insurance?
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  You see what I'm saying?
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  So, again, the worst things that have happened have been over almost have been over seven
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  decades, Eight decades.
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  I'm sorry.
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  And it's been but because of that, people have been saying since before you and I were born in
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  the sixties, hey.
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  The whole problem is the distortion.
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  Of all Obamacare did as ClintonCare would have done before that was just double and triple
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  down on the same problem, and the problem, again, is lack of transparency.
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  Yeah.
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  I bet you could tell me right now generally what your microphone costs.
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  Right, Bubba?
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  Oh, of course.
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  You could tell me at least how much your pair of shoes cost or at least a pair of shoes for
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  men.
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  K?
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  Of course.
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  What's an office visit?
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  No idea.
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  Yep.
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  What's a what's a knee replacement, generally?
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  Yeah.
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  No idea.
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  Yeah.
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  So, again, if how can we have a rational system where if we have the producers and the
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  consumers?
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  Right?
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  Because this is an economic arrangement.
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  Yes.
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  It's different because it's life saving.
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  If only one side is able to define what's usual and customary and you can't negotiate because,
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  you know, this my arm's using, some economics here.
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  Demand and supply and where they meet is price.
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  But when you don't have prices, how do you know whether it's good, bad?
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  Might be good.
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  Might be bad.
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  You don't know.
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  So the whole there's one whole half of the equation that's been missing for eighty years.
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  And so because of that, for McCarran Ferguson Act that I mentioned, the odd thing about this
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  was is while they made this as a general thing for employers everywhere, they also made a nod
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  to federalism, but, again, it almost made it worse because now they made states, responsible
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  for regulation of health insurance.
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  So you almost to to to have a free market in health care, sadly, you almost have to go state
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  by state and free it up.
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  So that's where my state my South Dakota efforts are are are there.
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  Well and at least we have the ability to change it at a state level instead of having to make,
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  you know, more federal legislation, which a quagmire that that is to do anything unless all
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  the pockets are getting lined at the same time, to to get anything done.
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  So very grateful, and I know our state government works much in the same way, and it
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  is a microcosm of the federal government.
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  The more legislators that I that I, you know, interview on this show and the more I learn
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  about, you know, the the people that we have in Pierre and in Washington that the game is very
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  much the same.
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  The players merely change names.
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  And I'm so thankful that we have someone in South Dakota.
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  I'm a South Dakotan and a a proud one at that that I want to see change.
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  I want to see people have a chance to to get access to health care that's fair.
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  Right?
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  Because insurance premiums continue to skyrocket.
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  They they are now, you know, higher than they've ever been, I would assume.
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  And the quality of health care has continued to go down as well.
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  And we saw that firsthand when earlier this year, my father-in-law, broke his leg pretty
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  gruesomely.
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  Mhmm.
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  Right?
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  And and they were like, well, we're just gonna send you home, and we'll do antibiotic
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  treatments for there.
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  Well, he has an infection on his leg, and we're talking about life threatening infections.
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  And they don't wanna pay for him to stay in the hospital because of the insurance companies.
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  And I do believe he's old enough to be covered by Medicare, but they're try and it was a fight
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  just to get him the care that he needed and deserved.
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  And it was just it was very eye opening to me to to see that and to see how hard, you know,
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  my mother-in-law had to fight with these people to be like, no.
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  You're gonna do what's right and not just what makes sense in your ledger book.
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  Right.
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  Well and this is the problem.
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  Everything's distorted.
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  So the sad part, Bubba, that basically I am letting you know and letting your listeners
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  know is that it's been distorted for eight decades.
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  So it it's been distorted.
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  So where are in most parts of America where we find most dissatisfaction?
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  Lack of transparency, really.
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  Right?
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  It's generally in the health, education, and in the pension areas.
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  I mean, those are the and the oddly enough, those are the three that are the most expensive
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  either at the state or federal level.
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  Just a little bit for you folks to know, and for you to know is that this was so bad, in the
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  first Trump term.
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  He, basically had his HHS director at that time.
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  I can't remember who it was.
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  Basically but he sent out an EO that that basically told the hospitals, you will post
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  your prices.
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  In 2019, he did that.
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  So that was, like, decades.
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  Nobody thought of that.
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  And I was like, god.
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  I don't know why you didn't do that.
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  Now that he's back in office again, he has again reiterated that.
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  So, I think I sent you some things from a patient's advocacy group, where all they do is
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  and then by the way, that organization was run by a former, health care CEO, and she got out
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  of it because she just I can't take this anymore.
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  And they list prices or they're trying to list prices for basically every hospital in America.
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  And they basically also list a scorecard for, like, which hospitals in every state, in every
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  single state of the union are compliant with president Trump's 2019.
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  And then once again, he reiterated it in 2021 right before he left the first time.
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  And then again, of course, this year when he was reelected.
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  Which ones are fully compliant?
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  In South Dakota, do you know how many there are that are fully compliant with posting all their
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  prices, Bubba?
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  Three.
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  No.
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  That's actually, that's that's actually overoptimistic.
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  There's one.
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  It's down in Viberg.
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  That's it.
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  Wow.
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  Well and we know, having lived here that our health care options in the state of South
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  Dakota are extremely limited.
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  Right.
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  And you also know and I because I sent this to you, but there's an a professor of business up
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  at SDSU that South Dakota is number one for medical debt in the nation.
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  Number one.
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  Not number two, not number 50, not number 14.
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  Number one.
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  So we have a problem.
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  We have a problem.
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  Urgent one at that that needs attention because how can you be free if you are settle saddled
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  with all of this debt that you are just working the rest of your life to pay off and never
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  getting out from under the weight of that?
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  I can't imagine.
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  And never knowing what that debt actually is.
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  I mean, you could be done with something with a hospital and then years later have another bill
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  come through.
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  And you you don't even know what it's for because everything's all through codes.
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  And one of the interesting things about it, Bubba, is that, you know, everything is done
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  basically via medical coding.
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  Guess what?
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  They they won't allow the public to see what the codes are.
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  So so data analysts can't even, like, figure out well, of course, we don't even know their
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  billing procedures.
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  Now some of that is changing, but it's really slow.
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  But, I mean, that was why I was, you know, chatting with you and and sent you a bunch of
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  those things that the only way this is ever going to be solved at our state level or any
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  case is let's we can there will be other things we can do, but the first thing is what does it
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  cost?
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  Please, just what is the average cost for x, y, and z procedure or this and that?
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  Right?
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  Like like, that's just about as basic as an economic transaction as you can have.
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  Right?
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  Well and I think that you have to start from that place of transparency before you can even
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  begin the discussion about what do we do.
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  Well, we have to know what is actually going on.
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  And and so this is what your mission is first off.
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  And and so what are you working on, Aaron, to kinda bring that about?
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  Are are you working with legislators to bring some kind of bill to the table and to have
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  something enacted that forces the, I mean, it sounds like the president has already issued an
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  EO, an executive order into this.
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  Why we shouldn't have to further, you know, implicate these people into it, you would
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  think.
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  But what what is it, that we can do as citizens to support these efforts as well?
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  Well, yes.
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  The first thing that I'm trying to do is what's known as an APCD, and that is an all payer
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  claims data database here in the state of South Dakota, which is exactly what they did in New
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  Hampshire.
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  And for the those people that don't know, basically, what happened was there was a bill
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  that was passed in New Hampshire back in 02/2004, 02/2005.
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  And, all it is is the Department of Insurance in a in a state, and you could do this also
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  with Medicare and Medicaid down the road if you want to, but let's just leave it with
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  commercial payers.
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  Right?
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  Every insurance company that was licensed within the state of New Hampshire, basically,
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  they were they took all of the claim data, every single Omnibus claim data, redacted the
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  names, and by procedure.
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  So they redacted the names.
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  There was no HIPAA violations or anything like that.
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  And, basically, just averaged out what each one would cost if you were gonna pay cash.
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  So, essentially, that was the closest thing that we they ever got to a market price.
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  Basically, what was the physician or dentist reimbursement?
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  Because it wasn't just doctors.
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  It was also dentists too.
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  And so that was really wonderful, and they had it they there was a University of Michigan
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  economist that studied that and said, wow.
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  These guys over ten years, it it was interesting how New Hampshire's prices that
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  were either steady or went down even with an aging population.
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  Now I know that correlation is not causation, Bubba, but it it would seem to me that the
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  transparency at least played some kind of a role.
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  And then with the with the links that I sent you in your email, you know, people that live
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  in New Hampshire, I mean, it's a one it's a public site.
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  You can go on there and you can say, okay.
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  I'm gonna I have this kind of insurance in the state of New Hampshire, and I need to get an
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  ambulance.
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  And how much would it cost if I lived?
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  And then it would tell you, okay.
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  For this cost, like, you I mean, I'm not saying everybody would necessarily pay out of the
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  pocket, but at least they would know what it would be so that if they would get insurance
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  bill back, they could say, no.
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  No.
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  The state says this is what what it really costs.
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  I'm not gonna pay this.
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  The so my point is is that not only do they give you the average because the average
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  insurance cost really basically is the market price.
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  It's not a true market price, but it's the closest we have.
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  You see what I'm saying?
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  So now since they did it, they were sort of the pioneers there.
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  Since then, 20 other states have passed this.
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  Latest one, I think, was Louisiana a couple years ago in 2022.
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  So the point is I wanna bring this to South Dakota so we can go on a government state
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  government website, okay, where they can list, the average costs if you had this insurance for
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  these procedures much the same way that, New Hampshire does.
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  That is the legislation that, we brought before the, commerce commit the South Dakota Commerce
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  Committee because they deal with insurance.
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  Not you'd think it'd be health, but it's not.
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  It's actually commerce since it's an insurance thing.
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  And so I brought it up before the, the state legislature this past year.
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  Well and I've unfortunately, I know it's going to be an uphill battle because health care is
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  such big business, one of the biggest industries, if not the biggest industry in
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  South Dakota.
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  It's the
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  biggest.
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  You're going to have very, very interested parties with deep pockets lobbying against any
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  kind of legislation that affects their bottom line.
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  So it's an uphill battle.
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  I think it's gonna take a lot of, you know, public outcry for something like this to get
• 17:22
  people to change their minds.
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  And I think that, you know, with what we're doing here at the Patriot Broadcasting Project
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  and the SCENE Projects as a whole is raising that vibration of the public's voice to have
• 17:35
  people like yourself on and to give you a platform because I guarantee any of the news
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  organizations of which there are very few are gonna have you on to talk about this when their
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  major advertisers are those medical companies.
• 17:48
  Right?
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  Right.
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  So independent media is the only way that we can get this information out there.
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  What are some of the other challenges maybe that you're facing getting this through?
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  Do you have legislators that are willing to bring this to the floor and and to try and
• 18:04
  convince their other, legislators to to support it?
• 18:07
  Yeah.
• 18:08
  I mean and just to let you know, the main legislator I've been working with, and he would
• 18:12
  be a great interviewee, which would be representative Aaron Alward, down in
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  Harrisburg.
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  Great guy if you've never interviewed him.
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  And he's he's, the chairman of the Freedom Caucus in the state of South Dakota.
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  So he's and he's a free market guy from the word go.
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  The main thing that it is is just trying to get people to understand and now the the problem
• 18:34
  that we had is that this was a very expensive year.
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  They were just like, we can't do it because I am asking for one more full time person at
• 18:41
  least in the department of insurance.
• 18:43
  Yes.
• 18:43
  And I was full and I was I was I was very, forthright in saying, look.
• 18:50
  You're gonna have to you know, I'm I'm not somebody who doesn't like government, generally
• 18:54
  being outside of its prescribed.
• 18:56
  But if governments made this problem, you're gonna have to have it, you know, lower down at
• 19:01
  the state level to fix the problem that got made at the federal level sometimes.
• 19:05
  And until we would actually get a free market, then maybe you wouldn't need the government
• 19:09
  agency again.
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  But right now, that's the only one that would know where the insurance data is, Bubba.
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  There's no other there's no other place that collects it.
• 19:16
  So but it was told that it was just a little bit too expensive.
• 19:21
  I think the I think the prison had a lot to do with that.
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  No.
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  Right.
• 19:24
  Yeah.
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  That.
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  So there was no money for anything, and and I thought yeah.
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  I don't wanna get you started.
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  Right?
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  But, it was funny being there.
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  So, basically, representative Albert tabled it.
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  So he didn't kill it.
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  He tabled it.
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  There were a lot of people that were like, well, this is a great idea, particularly since,
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  a, it's already been done in us in 20 states, and it's been done well.
• 19:45
  And I if we're able to do that and the other thing is is basically people to know that this,
• 19:51
  patient advocacy group that rates all the hospitals in all the states is there.
• 19:56
  And they have all these wonderful videos that that have it has worked.
• 20:01
  I think I sent you one word.
• 20:02
  Like, the state of Montana went direct with their state employees to just contract directly
• 20:07
  with the hospitals.
• 20:08
  Their their state employees got better in terms of better health care checks.
• 20:13
  The the the cost went way down.
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  They actually the state of Montana, health department actually gave money back to the
• 20:20
  legislature.
• 20:23
  Now tell me
• 20:24
  And just using these these things in the side of the government to to serve the employees of
• 20:31
  the government.
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  Imagine what it could do across the board for all of the all of the private citizens.
• 20:37
  And Exactly.
• 20:38
  I need to quit using that term.
• 20:39
  I know Aaron Prince is gonna have my head for that, but, we'll, we'll get to that in another
• 20:45
  one.
• 20:45
  I don't know what to call everyone anymore.
• 20:47
  The more I learn about the law, the more I learn we don't know anything about it as, you
• 20:52
  know, average people.
• 20:54
  And it's been such a big reason why I started this program last year, you know, around
• 20:59
  October was just to have real conversations.
• 21:03
  Somebody please come on and tell us what's actually going on.
• 21:06
  And we've been very fortunate to have a couple of representatives.
• 21:09
  Tessa Schwands and Bobby Andera have been on with us.
• 21:12
  We've had US congressional candidate, James Bayalata, come on with us recently out of Rapid
• 21:18
  City.
• 21:19
  And to the more you know, the more outraged you become.
• 21:23
  And I Exactly.
• 21:25
  Can only imagine that this is not going to be something that happens overnight No.
• 21:30
  Because of the lobby of the medical, you know, industry here in South Dakota and, how how much
• 21:36
  they've contributed to the campaigns of, I would assume, you know, a vast majority of the
• 21:43
  legislators that are in office already.
• 21:45
  Well and the thing of it is what we're gonna have to really ask ourselves, Bubba, is do we
• 21:49
  wanna continue with this eight decade cartel market?
• 21:53
  And I and market, by the way, should be in quotes because that's right.
• 21:57
  Or do we wanna actually try the one thing we've never really tried, whether it was Hillary care
• 22:01
  or Obamacare or anything else, an actual free market.
• 22:04
  I mean, you know, we don't argue about things that are already working.
• 22:07
  I mean, did you ever argue about where you got your tires at a tire shop?
• 22:11
  No.
• 22:12
  Because you already it it it says, hey.
• 22:14
  We'll do your tires for this amount, and then we don't argue about things that work.
• 22:18
  Well and then I was able to compare their price and service against the price and service of
• 22:23
  everyone else because I had all the data.
• 22:25
  And that's really all we're asking for here to begin with.
• 22:28
  And the legislation that you're, you know, working to get brought forth in in the house
• 22:33
  and senate is to just give us some transparency.
• 22:37
  Tell us what things actually cost.
• 22:38
  Show us the data and let the market decide the price, not a few people behind locked doors
• 22:46
  with locked file cabinets and just saying, well, no.
• 22:50
  This is what it's gonna cost, and it depends on who you're insured with, whether you get the
• 22:54
  care that you need.
• 22:55
  And, you know, no more surprise bills.
• 22:58
  You you go and and you'd can't get a straight answer out of anyone, and then you're saddled
• 23:03
  with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt that you will spend years or
• 23:09
  The rest of your life.
• 23:10
  Just go ahead and say the rest of your life.
• 23:13
  The rest of your life.
• 23:14
  Right?
• 23:15
  That that is the point is to keep these these free people in debt, which makes us all slaves.
• 23:21
  It makes us tax slaves and debt slaves.
• 23:25
  And I think as more people wake up to that fact that we're already living in this crazy caste
• 23:31
  system that is set up around us already, but yet we speak about how free we are in this
• 23:38
  country, and we have no idea what real freedom actually is.
• 23:42
  You know, one of the problems that we had in the twentieth century, one that I think you and
• 23:45
  I were both born in sadly, Bob, is now that I've really studied the history and stuff like
• 23:49
  that, it was sort of at least in the after the the first third, with the New Deal
• 23:55
  particularly, we basically didn't realize, but we were basically going back into neo
• 23:59
  feudalism.
• 24:00
  Mean, when you think about much of how society has really basically gone since then, it's
• 24:04
  really neo feudalism.
• 24:05
  It's really one of the great errors of the twentieth century.
• 24:08
  In the twenty first century, we really should be getting back to actual freedom and actual
• 24:11
  liberty, and that means really in all spheres.
• 24:14
  In the economic sphere, we're extremely constrained in The United States.
• 24:17
  So sadly.
• 24:18
  So let's let's just go back to what worked before that.
• 24:23
  Oh, you're talking some big ideas here, Aaron, and I love it.
• 24:27
  I, but it starts with small steps.
• 24:29
  It starts with transparency, and that is what, America demanded, when the mandate was
• 24:36
  delivered in November with a landslide win for president Trump, and we wanna know what's going
• 24:44
  on.
• 24:44
  And not that we've had a lot of it since, since he's taken office, but we need to continue to
• 24:50
  demand it at every single level.
• 24:52
  And it sounds like with what we're doing and because we have a blueprint for this from 20
• 24:58
  other states, we know that it's not just possible, but that it actually works to bring
• 25:03
  the cost of health care down.
• 25:05
  And I think that's something that every South Dakotan and every US, you know, every person
• 25:11
  living in The United States, could be thrilled about.
• 25:14
  I mean, think about it.
• 25:15
  Think about how much, at least since in my memory, every every, presidential election
• 25:22
  pretty much since '92, health care has been one of the top five.
• 25:26
  And what sadly, again, with the twentieth century mindset being so dumb, it was always
• 25:30
  double and triple down on all the stuff that made it horrible from you know?
• 25:34
  But finally, now with the Internet age that we've had for about thirty years or so, people
• 25:37
  are starting like, wait a minute.
• 25:38
  Wait a minute.
• 25:39
  Wait a minute.
• 25:40
  The real problem is we don't have prices.
• 25:42
  The real problem is the consumer's out of it.
• 25:44
  The real problem is we don't have transparency.
• 25:46
  If we have that, you know, passing a law to establish a market is different from another
• 25:51
  subsidy or another kickback or another another restriction on info.
• 25:56
  You know?
• 25:57
  So that so we're we're doing something different here in the state of South Dakota,
• 26:00
  and hopefully, nationwide, and just saying, you know, most of this stuff is gonna get fixed.
• 26:06
  And so we don't, like, have to keep discussing it forever and ever.
• 26:09
  Right?
• 26:09
  If we just have a free market, it it it just takes care of so many things.
• 26:14
  Awesome, Aaron.
• 26:15
  Well, we're gonna be following closely.
• 26:17
  The door is open anytime you need to come back and give us some updates on all of this.
• 26:22
  I am definitely going to have representative Alward, you said, is how you say his name?
• 26:27
  Yep.
• 26:27
  Yep.
• 26:27
  We're gonna definitely get him on the show as well to talk even more about this and maybe a
• 26:32
  little bit more about the legislative side and what we can do as as voters to, enact some
• 26:38
  change and to really put some pressure on our, representatives that are in peers.
• 26:44
  So thank you so much for taking some time for me today, and thank you for being part of the
• 26:48
  scene.
• 26:49
  Thank you so much.
• 26:50
  I appreciate it so much.