Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / How Can I Hear God Speak Through the Bible without a PhD?

Transcript

How Can I Hear God Speak Through the Bible without a PhD? · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends,
• 0:20
  Tim Wright here and I've got a Bible verse for you today from
• 0:23
  the Old Testament
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: prophet Jeremiah.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: who was not a bullfrog.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was a prophet.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in Jeremiah 29,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: verse 11,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: God says,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: For I know the plans I have for you,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: declares the Lord,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: plans for welfare and not for evil,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: to give you a future and a hope.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds awesome.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about that today by asking the question,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: How can we hear God speak to us through the Bible?
• 0:56
  And this question was sort of spurred on by our good friend,
• 1:00
  Terry Summers.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Say hello, Terry Summers.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Terry Summers.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Terry Summers.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And John Burgess is with us.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, thank you, John.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Terry had texted me a couple weeks ago,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: texted us a couple weeks ago,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: said she was reading this verse.
• 1:15
  And based on our time together doing Bible study and saying the
• 1:19
  Bible is not
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: written to us,
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: but the Bible is written for us,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: and we need to understand context,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: She said, what do I do with a promise like this?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does that apply to me?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was a really,
• 1:32
  really good question because it can get a little confusing as
• 1:37
  to how to hear God
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: speak to us through the scriptures,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: especially if you've been listening to us all the time and saying,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
• 1:45
  I do have to be careful about sort of picking and choosing what
• 1:49
  I like and then
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: applying it and so on and so forth.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: let's spend the next 90 minutes or so just talking about,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: or 30 minutes,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: talking about how we hear God speak to us through the Bible.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, let me just set the stage a little bit.
• 2:11
  I think in part what we've been saying through these podcasts
• 2:15
  is one of the primary
• 2:17
  ways we hear God speak to us through the Bible is in community
• 2:20
  with other people.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in community with other people,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: when we do Bible study and we share our insight,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes we share our ignorance with each other.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we are guided by good biblical thinking.
• 2:36
  We maybe got somebody who has spent time studying the Bible so
• 2:40
  that we know background.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: When we study the Bible,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: the best way to do it is in community,
• 2:45
  just to make sure that we're all hearing God the way that the
• 2:49
  Bible wants us to
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: hear about God.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes, oftentimes, we're just reading the Bible by ourselves.
• 2:56
  And we come across verses that maybe we don't understand or we
• 3:00
  read things and we
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: think,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: now,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: is that for me?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Am I supposed to do that?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does it all mean?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we hear God speak to us through the Bible?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that rather than just diving into answers right away...
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: That we would start,
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Terry,
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: with you a little bit,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: because you were reading this verse that a lot of Christians,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people have hung on to over the years.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know the plans I have for you,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: plans to prosper you,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: not for harm,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: to build you up,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: to give you a future,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: says the Lord.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so tell us a little bit about your reading through Jeremiah,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: which,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: is very brave of you.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah is not the easiest of the prophets to read through.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: No kidding.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: No kidding.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't write chronologically.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And Terry, you'll appreciate this.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: When I was in Bible school, as in college, we were studying Jeremiah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And our homework for the first night was to read the entire book.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It took me over three hours.
• 4:04
  And I don't think my professor really understood what he was
• 4:09
  asking of us at that moment.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: But there is some benefit to sort of trying to read through a whole book.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: But with Jeremiah, there's no chronological order to it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he gets a little whiny sometimes and who's attacking who and so on.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get this verse.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about your experience,
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: why you're reading Jeremiah,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: what you think you've been learning from Jeremiah,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: and then kind of,
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I get this verse now,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: what do I do with it?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 4:41
  I know I have seen this verse so many times in Christian
• 4:45
  settings and Christian
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: bookstores.
• 4:46
  I even remember seeing it on,
• 4:49
  um,
• 4:49
  Walt Calistad's wall in his office on a plaque.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: when I Googled to kind of get a little better understanding of Jeremiah,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: cause I was sort of overwhelmed.
• 4:59
  Like you said,
• 5:00
  I'm reading,
• 5:01
  by the way,
• 5:01
  I'm reading through the Bible,
• 5:03
  um,
• 5:03
  um,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: and I don't know what they call it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: you might,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: you would,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know you would know,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: but where they take some from the old Testament,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: some from the new Testament,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: but they don't,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: it's not in order,
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: like book to book to book.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: They jump around a little bit.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a linear.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's just getting you through the whole Bible in one year,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: reading some Old Testament,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: New Testament,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: probably some songs and Proverbs.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Even in the Old Testament, though, it jumped.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: It jumped, I guess, because maybe it is chronological.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this particular one is.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, blah, blah, blah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I happened to be in Jeremiah, or I was.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And...
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I had remembered a situation a little more than a year ago now.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: The 25th was 15 months since I lost Jonathan.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: The day after losing Jonathan,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've shared before on here with you,
• 6:01
  my brother and sister-in-law came and picked me up from Greer
• 6:04
  because that's where
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: it happened.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: and brought me home.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: I came in the house, wanted to just be by myself.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And within about an hour or so being home, I went in my bedroom.
• 6:15
  And when I had left to go away for this anniversary retreat the
• 6:21
  day before,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: which still to this day sounds so crazy,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: I had been reading and my Bible and devotion were opened up on the bed.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked down and there was
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: the verse we're talking about.
• 6:37
  And I'm totally in shock still and like can't even get my mind
• 6:44
  around what's happened.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: For I know the plans I have for you.
• 6:54
  And I felt like based on everything that I had always sort of
• 7:00
  knew or approached
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yet it still puzzled me because like,
• 7:06
  how can I could take some things literally and then other
• 7:08
  things I would not.
• 7:09
  But that was sort of talking to me as well as the crowd that it
• 7:16
  was written for at the time.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say I found great solace in it because it allowed me to go,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to answer this.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to know what all happened right now.
• 7:30
  And I will probably never know,
• 7:31
  but at least I know that God is looking out for me.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in the plans, oh, like this fits under that umbrella somehow.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it does come from very childlike faith,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: which I know I've shared on here many,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: many,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: many times.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I just was able to like, sorry, put my head down and take a nap.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was able to go to sleep.
• 8:00
  So I come across it again now after spending some time with you
• 8:05
  and John and,
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: and I went,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when I just,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: it's not doubting,
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: but I just thought,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm approaching things so differently,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: which has sort of rocked my boat,
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: to be honest.
• 8:19
  I sure hope there's someone out there listening that it's
• 8:22
  rocked their boat too.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise I feel really behind the curve,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: but in looking at things differently,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: but that's the story and I'm sticking to it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think, first of all, what we can say is,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless of whether the verse was taken in context or not,
• 8:44
  God used that verse in a moment of deep sorrow and pain for you
• 8:49
  to reveal something
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: about who God is to you in that moment.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it brought you comfort.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: It gave you a bit of peace.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You heard God speak to you through that voice or through that verse.
• 9:06
  Even if you didn't understand all of the background of the
• 9:09
  verse,
• 9:09
  God still spoke to you.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the power of Scripture,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: that even though it wasn't written to us,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's still written for us.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's still written for us.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And while that verse in context,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll talk about the context here in a little bit,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: while that verse in context is saying something a bit different,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's still saying something profound about God.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of how we hear God speak to us.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's taking a verse out of context that really speaks to us.
• 9:46
  But more often than not,
• 9:47
  it's those things where suddenly our eyes are open a bit to who
• 9:51
  God is.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And something happens in our soul.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we sense God speaking to us.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: John.
• 10:01
  You have had your own journeys reading scripture and wrestling
• 10:04
  with scripture.
• 10:05
  And what have been some challenges and or things that you've
• 10:11
  learned about,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: as you read the Bible,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: just for yourself,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: devotionally,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: or as you and Lisa read it together,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: what have been some things that stand out for you?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me,
• 10:25
  it's just reminding myself that God's character is consistent
• 10:29
  and unchanging.
• 10:31
  And if I trip over Scripture where it appears that what's being
• 10:36
  described is
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: completely different from the God I've been learning about,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: then that's going to require me to invest some time.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 10:45
  this journey of going down and learning about your faith and
• 10:50
  learning about Jesus,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: this is a full contact sport.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is not a sit on the sidelines sport.
• 10:58
  And so,
• 10:58
  you know,
• 10:59
  I think about in particular the passage that Terry's bringing
• 11:05
  to us,
• 11:06
  And she said that at the time she received consolation from
• 11:11
  that scripture.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that is beautiful.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, she's obviously in a very tragic time.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Her husband had just died.
• 11:21
  And that's obviously a perfect time to have God,
• 11:27
  you know,
• 11:28
  really feel like God's with you.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: And for her to take consolation of that is beautiful.
• 11:34
  I also think that a lot of people in that same situation would
• 11:37
  read it and say,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: it doesn't feel like your plans for me right now are good.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that you're watching out and keeping me from disaster.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that there's a, like right now it doesn't feel like that at all.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's, you know, uh, that's the thing that, um,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: that I think I struggle with at times is God makes promises,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: and I believe he is true to those promises,
• 12:05
  but sometimes understanding the promises and the timeliness of
• 12:08
  the promises can be
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: challenging.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 12:12
  both of you have really sort of set up a way to kind of look at
• 12:17
  this particular
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: passage,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: both from a Bible study and then from personal reflection.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And those two can go hand in hand.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah was a prophet, was a good friend of mine.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Never understood a single word he said.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, but there's a reason for that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was drinking too much wine.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's our episode for today.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a young prophet.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: who was called to bring the word of the Lord to the people of Israel,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: the southern tribes,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: the tribes of David,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: while they are being exiled from Israel to Babylon.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so their northern neighbors,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: northern Israel,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: had been completely wiped off the map by Assyria.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: in like 722 BC.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're now in around 586 BC.
• 13:18
  And Jeremiah is sort of helping the people prepare for what's
• 13:23
  about to happen
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: because it's now inevitable.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're surrounded.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be attacked.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then because it doesn't follow chronological order,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: he's also writing to people who've already been exiled,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: who are already in Babylon.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: They've been removed from their homes.
• 13:40
  And that's the context for this particular passage where he's
• 13:43
  writing to those
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: people who are now in Babylon.
• 13:47
  And God is letting them know through Jeremiah that they're
• 13:50
  going to be there for about 70 years.
• 13:54
  And what God wants to say to them is,
• 13:56
  I know the plans that I have for you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Plans for your welfare, not for evil.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Plans to build you up, not to destroy you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's going to be 70 years, but I still have these plans for you.
• 14:12
  And I think what's really interesting about a verse like this
• 14:16
  coming in the midst
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: of sort of what Terry experienced,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: a loss of everything.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they're still suffering around.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Terry will tell you to this day, she's still not over it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: The people of Israel saying,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: wait,
• 14:28
  we got 70 years and you're coming along with these promises are
• 14:31
  good for me?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the beauty and the messiness of Scripture,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: that sometimes life really hurts badly.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And yet God still comes to us over and over again with hope.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've got you.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've not abandoned you.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is not going to have the final word in your life.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible never says God will take away pain and suffering.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: What the Bible says is,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I will be with you in the midst of it,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: and as we've talked about over and over again,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: the cross stands as the defining moment of that,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: where God enters into crucifixion,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: into suffering and death for us,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: in order to bring about life.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: the next book,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: there's a...
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see,
• 15:27
  I don't remember all the books of the Bible off the top of my
• 15:29
  head right now,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: but Lamentations...
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: is a book that some people believe that Jeremiah wrote.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Lamentations means to lament.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he is, or the author is lamenting the destruction of Jerusalem.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And smack dab in the middle of this destruction,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: and he's talking about parents eating their kids,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: they are so desperate.
• 15:54
  Right in the middle of it,
• 15:57
  the writer says,
• 15:57
  but this I call to mind and still I have hope.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because of the Lord's great love, we will not perish.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: For great is God's faithfulness.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: God's mercies endure every day.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right in the middle of that book.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So he's lamenting.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly this profound word of hope.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Great is God's faithfulness.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: His mercies are new every day.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: While people are eating their babies.
• 16:26
  And then goes back and finishes out the next few chapters
• 16:29
  lamenting again.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the power of the gospel.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's the power of scripture.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we study the Bible,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:43
  we get this bigger context that there are people who've been
• 16:46
  here before us and God
• 16:49
  entered into their suffering and their hopelessness and despair
• 16:52
  with grace and with
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: promise.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the takeaways when we read that
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: by ourselves,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: and we reflect on that,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: is we can ask the question,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: what is this saying about God?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is saying,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: that God hasn't abandoned me,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: that God still has these plans that include hope and grace.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to have the final word.
• 17:15
  Doesn't mean I'm not going to be going through it,
• 17:18
  but I don't have to go through it alone.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where then the promise becomes something we can internalize.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: and say, what God said to those people, that's the character of God.
• 17:33
  And that character of God expressed in that verse and in that
• 17:36
  whole story,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: seen on the cross,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: he could have said,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: God could have said the same thing to Jesus as he's hanging on the cross.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know the plans that I have for you.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Plans to prosper you, not for evil.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Plans to build you up, to give you a future.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, you're still going to go through death.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we then can internalize.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I say it wasn't written to us, but it's written for us.
• 18:02
  And what we want to gleam when we're reading these different
• 18:07
  stories is what is
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: this saying about God?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so what is God saying to me about God through this story?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and sometimes you can read scripture, not get anything right.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: You may be reading through Chronicles and getting one war after another.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 18:23
  But when we read Scripture devotionally,
• 18:28
  we sort of want to have those questions going on.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening here?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is God up to?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is Jesus saying?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what does it say about God?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: What does it say about Jesus?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And how then can that be a promise or a gift or apply that to my life?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say one other thing, and I'll let you guys both respond.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge...
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: with a verse like this,
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know the plans I have for you to prosper you,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: not for evil,
• 18:53
  is that some people take that verse and twist it into a
• 19:00
  prosperity gospel to say,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: see,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: you should never go through suffering.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You should prosper all the time.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: You should be as wealthy as you can possibly be.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're going through tough stuff, it's your problem.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You've done something wrong.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is a gross misunderstanding of the verse.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 19:18
  This verse is given to people who are going through suffering
• 19:21
  and will suffer for
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: the next 70 years.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And God wants them to say, hang on to the promise.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I've told this before.
• 19:31
  It's like the person opens up their Bible and the first verse,
• 19:34
  God speak to me.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Open up their Bible.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: They put their finger down on a verse.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Judas went out and killed himself.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's not very helpful.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they open it up again.
• 19:43
  They put their verse finger down on a verse that says,
• 19:45
  go and do likewise.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's where we have to be really careful.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Recognize that this has context.
• 19:55
  But in the end,
• 19:55
  what we want to read Scripture for is to say,
• 19:57
  what is it teaching me about God?
• 19:59
  And I think if we have eyes to see and ears to hear,
• 20:02
  we're going to see over and over again.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Even in the worst of it,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: it's saying something radical about a God who loves,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: a God who wants life,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: and a God who is with us even when life and death seem to surround us.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've sermonized now long enough.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So Terry, this was sort of started by you with that great insight.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: As you're kind of hearing this stuff, what speaks to you?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 20:34
  I'm even a little surprised now myself that I did go there with
• 20:39
  it because,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: not surprised,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: even more comforted, I guess, because it was such a fresh, I was struck.
• 20:52
  So there wasn't any distance really to like leave a hope filled
• 20:57
  interpretation and
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: be looking for something.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't do that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I really do believe that God revealed, spoke to me in that.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now though, I have,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: backing or looking over things a bit from a distance, I see the process.
• 21:22
  I don't know that I was applying that necessarily consciously
• 21:25
  at the time,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: but I see the process of sifting.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I would have still arrived at,
• 21:30
  there maybe some based on who I am one thing I do want to ask
• 21:34
  or say and it's
• 21:35
  always on my mind when I'm wrestling with interpretation and
• 21:39
  how to read something
• 21:41
  or whatever because I've been so literal my whole life and
• 21:46
  excuse things that
• 21:47
  didn't fit in the literal for me that someone say so really but
• 21:53
  I just it was
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: almost like I didn't want to go there but what about someone who doesn't
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: who like,
• 22:01
  let's say the person that is just in the most remote area and
• 22:08
  receives a Bible and
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: has no community.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 22:15
  And I know that's becoming probably less and less so in terms
• 22:19
  of the world because
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: of,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: of technology and such.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: But what about that?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, the Bible as I,
• 22:30
  Can we still say it's alive and breathing like I grew up
• 22:33
  hearing and that in that
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: way it does speak to us personally from that perspective?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's obviously it's a hypothetical.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can't answer how everybody reads the Bible.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I believe.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And your story proves it.
• 22:54
  The Bible is a living,
• 22:55
  breathing document,
• 22:56
  meaning God speaks to us through it in fresh ways.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that there are people who can,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: and we've heard stories of this,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: of people who pick up a Bible and they start reading,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: and they're confused by a lot of it,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: as we all are.
• 23:16
  But then there are these little moments where the breath of the
• 23:20
  Spirit moves and
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: the grace of Jesus,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: of God,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: comes and begins to say,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: there's something here for you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's a God here who loves you.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that happens to people when we read Scripture.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it happens once in a while when we hear a sermon.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 23:45
  that we're an idea catches our imagination and it's like a
• 23:50
  light bulb goes off and
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: it may be something we've heard several times before,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: but just in that moment,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: our life situation is different and bam,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: there's just something new and fresh that happens.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: We might hear it, uh, possibly in a podcast like this.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: we don't ever claim that we're saying something that makes any sense,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: but some of you are still listening.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 24:11
  And then,
• 24:12
  you know,
• 24:12
  even just sometimes a friend can say something and the spirit
• 24:17
  speaks to us.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: if we approach scripture when we're reading it devotionally,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: where we maybe aren't studying it,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: we're just reading it,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: reading it through like you're doing and just sort of ask the question,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: God,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: is there something here you want me to see about you today?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a surprise here?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's not, that's okay too.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've read the Bible through so many times I've lost count.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 24:46
  there are still times when I'll read it and the words are there
• 24:50
  and it forms you.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: You keep hearing the words.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't always walk away from reading Scripture that day and say,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I really had a holy moment with God today.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times, well, I checked that one off the list.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: But still, the Scripture breathes life into us.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the more we read it, the more we're formed by it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: and Tim,
• 25:14
  you touched on something right at the beginning that I think
• 25:16
  was really important,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: and it certainly struck me.
• 25:19
  And I'm going to paraphrase it,
• 25:22
  and then you can tell me where I got this wrong.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because what I heard you say to Terry was, if that piece of scripture...
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: presented itself to you in a comforting and loving and grace-filled way,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: don't spend a lot of time doubting,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: whether you have completely understood the scripture or,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: what was the thing that we said on the podcast,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: 11 episodes,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: just take the win.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, take the win.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: in other words,
• 25:52
  God can speak to you through scripture that you don't well
• 25:56
  understand as well.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 26:01
  And again,
• 26:01
  it's really two different ways of approaching Scripture,
• 26:06
  and they're both important.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: One is to study it, the context, understand what's going on.
• 26:12
  And for me,
• 26:13
  the more I understand the context,
• 26:15
  the more I hear God speak to me.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I see the depths of God when I understand all the stuff that's going on.
• 26:23
  For God to come along to people who are going to suffer for 70
• 26:26
  years and say,
• 26:26
  hang in there,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've got you.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've got these good plans for you.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty amazing stuff.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: But when we read devotionally,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: as most of us do,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: and I've studied the Bible a long time,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of turn that part of my brain off.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I just read it to read it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And let the story speak to me.
• 26:50
  without necessarily the context or trying to understand,
• 26:52
  well,
• 26:52
  who was Jeremiah?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Who's Isaiah?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are they going through?
• 26:55
  I just want just the words to come off the page and whatever
• 26:59
  grabs me,
• 27:00
  grabs me.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can say this.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know I've heard God speak to me?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it brings comfort, if it brings a word of hope and grace,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: if it deepens your understanding of God's love for you,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: if it makes you angry,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: and if you walk away saying,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: those people out there,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: after I've read the scripture,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: now I know they're really wrong.
• 27:35
  And it knocks you out of saying,
• 27:39
  my call is to help people,
• 27:41
  if it has a negative impact on you.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or...
• 27:46
  it suggests that you can do something to manipulate God to
• 27:50
  bless you more,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: then you can say,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't really heard God,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: and I maybe need to get some friends around me,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: and I need to study Scripture more.
• 28:02
  Scripture is meant to inspire,
• 28:04
  to breathe life into us,
• 28:06
  to breathe grace into us.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we'll be confused.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: That just means we're wrestling with Scripture.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with being confused and asking questions.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole point,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: if it's a living,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: breathing document,
• 28:19
  it's meant to breathe life and hope and grace and mercy and
• 28:22
  forgiveness and
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: kindness into us.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if in any way,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: shape or form,
• 28:28
  it makes us more negative or we start to see people differently
• 28:34
  and with anger,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: then we've misread scripture.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, there's a lot of that out there.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of Christianity that has read the Bible.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And because they've read the Bible, these people aren't invited in.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: They don't belong.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're sinners.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: They need to do all these things.
• 28:53
  And I will just say,
• 28:55
  they have not heard the God of the Bible speak to them.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: It might be gas.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It might be heartburn.
• 29:03
  But it's not the spirit of Jesus when we walk away from
• 29:08
  Scripture and it makes us
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: more judgmental.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: and more angry, even though I'm sounding a little judgmental right now.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: what about though,
• 29:15
  like instruction or guiding or leading that if we have where we
• 29:20
  might need to see
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: something differently?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Say that again.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure I'm asking.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: so in addition to hope and great,
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: all of that,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: what if is,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: are we also to expect that he will guide and lead and instruct and,
• 29:40
  through it as well well sure and i think that's kind of what i
• 29:44
  mean is that um
• 29:46
  first of all scripture is meant to open our eyes to the wonder
• 29:50
  of god and and just
• 29:52
  how amazing this god is and and we've we've talked about that
• 29:56
  several times in this
• 29:57
  podcast looking at these different stories in scripture just
• 30:00
  how radically
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: different god is than what we think god is
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of how he leads us.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think God can also lead us as we read Scripture,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: especially maybe things like Paul's letters,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: where it's more instructional,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: more,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: we might say,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: behavioral.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: But even then,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: when you look at Paul's instructions,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: they're always immersed in love and compassion.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're learning anything,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: it should be how to be more loving,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: how to be more accepting,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: how to be more gracious.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, I think even the Scriptures can do that.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how the Spirit works on us as well,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: to form us into the image of God that we are,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: to form us and shape us into the sons and daughters of Jesus that we are.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's what Scripture does.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think formation is a great word because even,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 31:05
  if you just read Scripture devotionally and you don't
• 31:08
  necessarily always get
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: anything out of it,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: it's just the act of reading it on a consistent basis that forms us.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Those stories get into us.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Those stories seep into us.
• 31:21
  And,
• 31:21
  you know,
• 31:22
  if you read,
• 31:22
  say you read through the New Testament every year.
• 31:25
  Get one of those through the New Testament in one year and just
• 31:28
  read the New
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Testament over and over again every year.
• 31:32
  Those stories get into you and they breathe life into you and
• 31:36
  they shape you and they form you.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one year you'll read this verse and it won't mean a thing.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: The next year that verse will just pop right out at you.
• 31:44
  And it's all about where you are in your life,
• 31:47
  how the Spirit's working through Scripture.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is a living, breathing book.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we know that?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're still talking about it 2,000 years later,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: and we still are trying to understand it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Indeed.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 32:03
  Anything else you guys want to add for people from your own
• 32:09
  lives and just reading
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Scripture devotionally that might be helpful for folks?
• 32:18
  I just think a reminder to sort of give yourself grace while
• 32:24
  you're reading the
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Bible makes a lot of sense,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 32:28
  And take the wins when you've got them and maybe push in a
• 32:32
  little bit more as it
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: gets more complicated or confusing.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Try to bump into other people that are in the same walk, same place.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: and try your ideas and be in a little bit of a community.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: That all is just great reminders.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just really appreciate it.
• 32:48
  And thank you so much,
• 32:49
  Terry,
• 32:49
  for starting us off with,
• 32:52
  you know,
• 32:53
  kind of a very personal story.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: That was great.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Terry,
• 32:59
  I just want to tease out for a couple seconds with you because
• 33:01
  you are reading
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: through the Bible and you've got,
• 33:04
  I've done it where I've read from Genesis 1 all the way to the
• 33:07
  end of Revelation
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: straight through.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:10
  Man,
• 33:10
  it is tough sledding to be in that Old Testament for 10 out of
• 33:16
  12 months.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of it's fantastic.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: you've got Psalms,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: you've got these great stories,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ruth and Jonah's in the whale and Samson,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: but other stuff.
• 33:28
  And when you're reading through the prophets like Jeremiah or
• 33:31
  Chronicles,
• 33:33
  Leviticus,
• 33:35
  um,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about how,
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: when you're reading that stuff,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: and of course you get the New Testament as well,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: which I think is great.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you a little bit more substance.
• 33:47
  But how do you sort of get through those passages when you're
• 33:51
  reading through the
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Bible in a year?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Initially, I think, wow, I can see how
• 34:03
  people who are reading through it for the first time and I am I
• 34:07
  have no means what
• 34:09
  you have under your belt as a matter of fact I think I in terms
• 34:12
  of just all the way
• 34:14
  through maybe one other time a lot of hopping around you know
• 34:19
  and Bible studies and
• 34:20
  this and that and books at a time but I can see how someone
• 34:26
  picking up the Bible
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: would think whoa this is an angry God yep yeah and
• 34:36
  I don't even know how to totally explain my faith and I'm glad
• 34:39
  I don't have to,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: but it is as I,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: the easiest way has been the way that I always say it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's very childlike, but I know I grew up with it.
• 34:48
  And so those things that were,
• 34:50
  um,
• 34:51
  were shared with me about him was all about the love of God.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: but as a little bitty,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: in those younger years,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't in all those books that,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: that kept repeating his anger and I'm going to destroy this.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to destroy that.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that has been, um,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: it's been a,
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the,
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: the,
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: the empath in me is going,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: it is so important that,
• 35:23
  that we have folks like you that are helping and communicating
• 35:28
  so that that's not
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: what,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can see,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I could like,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: it's overwhelming sometimes just for me to get that in.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: And, but yeah,
• 35:37
  I don't want to just say I know better,
• 35:40
  but that's sort of how I keep having to remind myself.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as I get older,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm reading through some of that stuff in the Old Testament,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I keep thinking,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: God,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: it would have been a lot easier if that hadn't been in there.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where, again, that's where the devotional side is important.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just reading Scripture is good.
• 36:07
  But it's the community part for those challenges that really
• 36:11
  becomes important.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that we can have somebody say to us,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 36:16
  what we're reading in the Old Testament is really the raw
• 36:19
  experience of the people
• 36:20
  of Israel coming to terms with who God is and how often they
• 36:23
  got it wrong.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, this beautiful passage will arise up.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, well, how can that be the same God?
• 36:29
  And you realize,
• 36:30
  no,
• 36:31
  God's finally said,
• 36:32
  I've had enough of you guys getting it wrong.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I'm like.
• 36:36
  And,
• 36:37
  you know,
• 36:37
  of course,
• 36:38
  we see the ultimate expression of that in Jesus.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you do need, sometimes we need help to get through that.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why if people are new to the Bible,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: John,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: what is the book I always recommend they read?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Mark.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Mark.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Mark's Gospel, which we went through.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't listened, we did a Bible study on a lot of Mark.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Mark or Luke?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mark or Luke, Matthew's good too.
• 37:06
  John's a little more challenged,
• 37:07
  but any one of those Gospels is a good place to start.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: A bad place to start would be like Leviticus in the Old Testament.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or Jeremiah or Isaiah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're new to the Bible,
• 37:26
  even if it's just reading the Gospel of Mark and you read a
• 37:31
  paragraph or two a day,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just sort of maybe read it two or three times if you want.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And let it sit there.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to study it if you don't want to.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just let it be there.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then you read more.
• 37:46
  I think you'll find that you start getting a bit used to the
• 37:50
  way the Bible is
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: written and those Jesus stories exist.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: then help shape the way that you read the rest of the Bible.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Terry, for sending us that text.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think hopefully it will help folks.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And next week,
• 38:06
  apparently I said something in a podcast a week or two ago that
• 38:09
  got John D.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Burgess's attention.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I said Jesus was wrong about something.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And John thinks it would be really important for us to talk about,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: could Jesus have been wrong about something?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're going to do that.
• 38:26
  And we're also going to look at some other questions that John
• 38:31
  has gotten from some
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: kids that he's been working with that are really fascinating.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so next week will be sort of the deep grace diving question box.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll be back with you next time.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I am Tim Wright.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: that I would suggest that maybe Jesus was wrong.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So was I wrong?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: That would be even the bigger question.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: We'll tackle them both.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Next week.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone.