Latest / The Discussion Podcast / View From The Street - Uni or Not: Is a Degree Worth the Debt? 17 Aug 2026

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View From The Street - Uni or Not: Is a Degree Worth the Debt? 17 Aug 2026 · The Discussion Podcast

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This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell, supported by Back to the Garden Childcare,
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where learning grows naturally. So good afternoon Rod, it's been a while,
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how are you doing? And we just had our summer break didn't we?
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And yeah it's been a while but and it's been hot hasn't it?
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It has to be very hot yeah. I do think we should today talk about you know is
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the world burning but there's a bigger topic really today isn't there?
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Yeah it's a very good topic from you do you want to introduce the topic well
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i'm basically it's about university and degrees with 27 of graduates
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this year having secured a job in the uk or elsewhere by september only 27,
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is is a degree worth the effort is it worth the money because you can be coming
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out with what 30 40 50 000 quid of debt possibly because are there enough jobs out there for,
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degree degree students are are they doing the right degrees.
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Maybe or yes exactly do some of these degrees do they equate in a job for example
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if you do for example english geography history yeah and because i was thinking
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actually the other day if you're very gifted and you're good at maths or
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science or it that that gives a good job doesn't it or finance but there are
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other humanities subjects there are other paths you know get yourself a trade for example you know i
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i if you If you have a trade, you know, is that a better way of securing employment
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or doing a degree apprenticeship?
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You know, joining a company after A-levels, doing your degree through that.
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You come out debt-free and you're earning money and you're building experience.
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So I think really it's a case of that stat.
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27% of graduates by September will have secured a job in the UK or elsewhere.
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And also we're seeing more and more of our gifted and skilled people getting
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jobs elsewhere. And what's the source, by the way, for that stat?
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The stat is, I think it's the Times newspaper.
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So it is a held-up staff. But, you know, I was speaking to somebody at the weekend,
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and he's trained to do medicine here in the UK. He's been in the NHS for a number
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of years, and he's going to Melbourne because there are no jobs here for him
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in the UK. It's mad. That's crazy.
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So I bet you're glad that your children are kind of already sorted now,
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as they're not just coming out of uni. Well, they're not necessarily, you know.
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So it's, yeah, two of mine are definitely sorted, but they're not necessarily
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all doing exactly what they would have wanted to do.
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Why do you think Britain's future is bleak? I wouldn't say the future is bleak.
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I think there's a bad, there's a, I think there was a, I think a lot of kids
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were missold the stream. And I blamed Tony Blair actually, where he said everybody
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should go and get a degree, right? And I think we missed a beat there because
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you don't necessarily need that.
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And the debt is too great. And I think we started to, with degree apprenticeship,
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started to address it because you can get a degree apprenticeship get a job
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in an accountancy firm an it firm a legal firm
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come out debt free and also get a degree,
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but you won't have had that three four years of letting your hair down and not
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had you know the stress of working in a professional company but you've got
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a job and so you've got to weigh that up i just think that,
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i i wonder whether educational facilities universities are making stronger enough
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links between the courses they offer and what the jobs are out there for people.
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Because I don't think these universities seem that bothered about making sure
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that everyone gets a job at the end of it.
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No, because they get their money anyway. They've got their money.
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As soon as somebody signs up, they've got their money.
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So as businesses, I don't think, you know, sometimes I think you're not,
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you should be measured on how many of your students get jobs,
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not measured by the input, measured by the output measure. Mm-hmm.
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Very good, Rod. And on that note, shall we get stuck in and see what the people
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are watching we have to say? Just find out what they think of this.
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This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by...
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Where little explorers grow naturally. So today on View from the Street on Radio
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Alty, we're asking people whether university is actually worth the money, the effort.
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With a stat that came out today that said 27% of graduates this year by September
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will have secured a job either in the UK or elsewhere.
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We think that's a very low statistic.
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What's your own view? What's been your experience? Is a degree worth the hassle and the money?
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So I graduated in 2019 in psychology with criminology.
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I now work in marketing, so it's not quite the route that I originally planned to take.
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I was lucky enough to graduate pre-pandemic, so I did get the sense of community
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and attending every day and seeing my lecturers, which now that I come to look
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at the depth that I'm in, somewhat worth it in that sense, because at least
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I know I had a physical experience.
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Whereas some of my peers who've just graduated this year didn't get that at all.
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They didn't even have to attend in person really that often.
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And quite a lot of their workshops and seminars were done online.
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So you could do that from home. So you don't really get the full experience.
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I think it depends on how you define the experience and what you want it to
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be. But I always knew I wanted it to be around people and being somewhere outside
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of the bubble I grew up in.
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So I definitely got that experience out of it in terms of career I don't know,
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you'd have to ask my managing director who did my interview for my role but
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I've been here four years,
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I don't think that I use the kind of modules and the stuff that I studied at
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uni day-to-day because I work in marketing, so it's completely different.
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But the life experience it gave me and the friendships it gave me, 100% worth it.
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So you had a positive experience. Yeah, I definitely did. And you managed to
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get yourself a job, but even though it wasn't exactly in the area,
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I mean, it's behavioral, isn't it, psychology? And marketing's behavioral as well.
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Yeah, definitely. I mean, I still use some of it day-to-day.
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And I think I probably will lean on that degree later on in life when I know
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that the policing world has changed a bit more from where it is now.
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That's partly, it was personal reasons as to why I chose not to go down that route in the end.
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It just didn't suit me and the lifestyle I wanted and I wanted something more creative.
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So I went down that route, but I probably wouldn't have been able to secure
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the job I've got now if I hadn't done a bit of freelancing as well.
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So I've had to kind of dabble a little bit to work my way into it.
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And do you think that's statistic of 27% of this year's graduates securing a
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job by September this year, UK or below, that isn't a very favourable percentage, is it?
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No, and I think that probably is because we work in recruitment.
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So we see the unemployment stats quite frequently and entry level roles are
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less and less likely to be secured based on the introduction of AI.
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And so many kind of manual processes, administrative processes that somebody
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like a grad would welcome with open arms isn't necessarily available.
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So I think that's probably got something to do with it. And obviously,
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pre-pandemic, things were very different. And now people are trying to be more
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efficient and save costs to fill any damage that was done during that time for
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businesses. So that's probably why. Thank you very much indeed.
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You're welcome. No problem.
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The Late Late Lunch Show with Back to the Garden Childcare. Natural beginnings for bright futures.
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Good afternoon, sir. On today's Lili Lunch Show, the topic on View from the
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Street is basically, is university now worth the hassle, worth the money?
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There's a stat that's come out in the last week or so that says something like
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27% of this year's graduates will have secured a job by September,
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either in the UK or elsewhere. And I think that's a very low percentage given
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the money and the effort.
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And we're just thinking, do you think it's the only path or is there better
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alternatives now to going to university?
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Well, I've thought for some time that university is marvelous for some people.
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It can be a great experience and a great preparation for life beyond.
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But I've also thought that.
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We need many more people to look at trades because they're always going to be
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in-demand tradespeople. They can provide very good careers, whether it's bricklayers,
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electricians, plumbers, and so on.
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And we need to enhance the status of all these jobs as much as those which result
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from a university education.
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And we need people with engineering skills, whether it be brick layers,
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whether it be people who can put in air conditioning, for example.
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We're going to need a lot more of that, don't we?
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Yes. Well, I'm reading and hearing every day of people who can't recruit.
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That's the bizarre thing that I was reading yesterday, that a prison has many
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empty places because they can't
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recruit the staff, or if they can recruit them, they can't retain them.
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You might recall, I think it was Tony Blair's government that sort of encouraged
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everybody to go and get a degree or certainly go into further education.
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It seemed that might have been where we've slightly gone wrong.
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And now we're having to redress that by looking at degree apprenticeships where
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people can get a job, get a degree, but also come out debt free.
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Yes, I think we do need to change our mindset a bit. I was very impressed last
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year. I went to Germany. I have some very long-standing German friends,
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and I met their grandchildren.
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One is a 17-year-old, and he's very, very bright. He's good at everything, really, at school.
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But he's planning to start work in a factory at 18, and he'll consider later
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whether university is way worth it. And in Germany, there's been that tradition
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for a long time, I think, the Berufsschule, as they call Korea.
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Educational institutions, they have a good status in Germany.
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And university doesn't have to be at 18 anyway.
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You can go on in later life and fit it in with some trade or occupation that
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is going to earn you a living. That's really interesting, actually,
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because you're a long time in work, aren't you?
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And ultimately, you could have multiple different careers, actually.
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And everyone has to be cautious in expressing any view on this because we never
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really know what the demand in the future is going to be.
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And a lot of jobs now were just completely unpredicted, even as recent as 10
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years ago. Agreed. Agreed. Very good. Well, thank you for your view. Well, thank you.
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This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by...
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Childbed Learning in Nature's Playground. So, good afternoon.
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We've just been introduced. that I didn't realize you were Jordan Drinkwater.
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You do a lot of music. I didn't realize anyone would have known me to know that
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I was Jordan Drinkwater. Well, really well. He likes to keep track with different musicians.
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Jordan, today on our Lately Lunch Show on View from the Street,
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we're asking people about, really, is university worth the time and the effort
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or are there better paths?
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And it was a stat that came up, I think it was in the Times newspaper in the
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last week, that said, by September, 27% of this year's graduates will have secured
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a job either in the UK or elsewhere in the world. And I think that's a,
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we think that's a very low percentage.
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Now as somebody, as a musician, but you didn't, you didn't start out doing music, did you?
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Yeah. Well, for starters, that is a pretty terrible stat considering how much you're paying for it.
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But yeah, I was quite fortunate really. So I went to uni doing one thing sort
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of sports related. I was looking at, you know, getting my PGCE,
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becoming a PE teacher and ended up living. I already had like an interest in
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music, but I wasn't like, I didn't know.
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Any way to sort of get into the music industry or anything like that.
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But I was, I was surrounded by other guitarists and singers and stuff like,
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you know, were big on the open mic scene.
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So I sort of followed them around. I was quite new to guitar.
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So if I had any questions, I'm like, how do you play this? And they'd,
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you know, show me a thing or two that helped me build the confidence to do a
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few tunes with them. And then by the time I left uni, I was pretty much doing gigs.
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Not full-time, but, you know, enough where I could get away with cutting down
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my shifts at Sainsbury's.
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And then within a year after that, I quit Sainsbury's. And then I've been doing
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music full-time ever since.
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So, yeah, I wouldn't have met those people or been living around them or been
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around that music scene if it wasn't for going university. But that's just luck,
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really, I suppose. But it does give you that time out.
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That's one of the benefits, doesn't it? And it allows you to meet new people
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and think and discover new things.
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Yeah i wouldn't have been um i would have just been at sainsbury's otherwise
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really you know in the bakery not the same thing wrong with that.
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I got my first i got my first share of cakes so but you know it was so i had
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a good uni experience it helped me i build the confidence to turn up to open
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mic nights and then say yes to gigs and learn
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learn a few things from each other and stuff but yeah as as for most people's
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experience that i've heard a uni summit they're just sort of just expected to go to and then they go,
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and then leave and then do something else they figure out what they want to
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do their vocation or whatever after university they just pick something that
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they have half an interest in and then do it just because like a,
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for instance in my year at school i think one person didn't go university in the whole year.
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Yeah so he was like the outlier really yeah and he's probably doing better than
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most of the other ones who did go university because he got stuck in early to
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becoming like electrician and now he's you know getting loads of jobs so within
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your cohort of friends when they graduated
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was the experience quite difficult in securing a job even even any job never
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mind a job in their preferred industry,
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yeah i'd say so i think finding a job isn't necessarily the issue it's just
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like finding a job that's something you'd potentially want to do for the rest
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of your life it's quite difficult yeah,
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so people are just find finding whatever they can so if you just go to like
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call centers if you would just get a job in a pub.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's something that they were doing,
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till till they found the job that they wanted to do permanently which often
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ended up not even being anything to do with the course they were on in the first
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place and with your music career i often think that musicians end up having to be very,
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good at planning logistics said maybe not maybe not good,
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but you have to be a one-man business as much as a musician that gives you skills
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that could be used elsewhere does it not yeah that's that's been something i've
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been thinking about recently because obviously it's always good to branch out.
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So you know having good rapport with venues and stuff like that and and through
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running open my nights getting to know loads of other musicians I've been thinking
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about things like could I
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potentially in the future set up like an agency you know book gigs for other
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people and yes arrange it but I mean at the minute that's I feels a bit stressful
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so that's something I'd probably branch into if I stopped getting gigs it when i get,
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a bit uglier and they stop wanting to book me can i ask a question i was wondering,
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i know it's difficult for people who want to go to the music industry so how
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were you able to do it and why why is it difficult.
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I don't really i sort of fell into it quite luckily because i sort of i never
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planned to do it i never really i just enjoyed going to open night nights and
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that was my key my foot in the door is like i think the issue is so many people,
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making videos and, you know, posting on Facebook and emailing festivals and
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emailing venues and stuff like that, but you can't beat someone just seeing you in person.
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There's something, I don't know, magical about seeing someone in person that
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just makes you seem better for some reason, you know?
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You know, if, I don't know how to describe it, but basically,
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yeah, if you just get your face out there and the bar sees you rather than emailing
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them, they'll be like, oh, that guy was really good. I'll get his number. I'll book him.
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And then someone there will see you who will go, oh, my 60th is coming up and
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they'll book you if they see you.
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Whereas if you're just like, you know, focusing on doing it at home and recording.
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Some videos and emailing them to people, people just have no interest in you really.
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I don't know what it is. It's just the magic of face to face.
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Face to face. It's powerful. Well, I'll tell you what, it's been very nice to
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meet you. I have the fierce, the fierce. This is The Late Late Lunch Show with
15:48
Rod Maxwell. Supported by...
15:52
Where little explorers grow naturally. So, good afternoon, madam.
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This is Jay Spence and Rod Maxwell for Radio Alty, View from the Street.
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And today we're asking about whether university is worth it or not.
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What was your experience with university? Do you think that it's been useful for your career?
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Yes, I would say university has been useful for my career. I studied accounting
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and finance at the University of Liverpool.
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I did a three-year degree. Initially, I was going to do four years with a year
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in industry, but I think I just shared my mind and ended up doing a three-year course.
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One thing I will say is, yes, in terms of theoretically, my degree was helpful.
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But one thing I would say is very important is work experience,
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which is unfortunately is hard to get.
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But one thing I will say is in finance, because the way finance is and accounting
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is, every industry needs an accountant. Every industry, you have a finance department.
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So I think we're kind of blessed and lucky to have that.
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So it was very easy for me to get my first job, which was at the University
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of Liverpool Press. Yeah, I'd say that I was...
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So
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When you do something like financial accounting, it's a bit like doing dentistry.
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It's a little bit like doing medics.
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There's a clear pathway between the degree and the job.
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There's many other degree courses out there where actually it's not as simple
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as that. Yeah. Yes, that's very true.
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I do have some friends that study journalism or like English courses or sociology.
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In fact, I do have a friend. She studies sociology.
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We graduated the same year, but unfortunately, she still hasn't got a job.
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So it is very hard and one thing I do advise younger people who are just going
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into university is kind of do like research into what your industry is going
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to look like what the competition is looking like
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I think when I talk to certain people and they say oh I do have kind of an interest
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in maths or economics I kind of I'm always a big cheerleader for accounting
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and finance because once you've got that
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your degree and you have your certification which I'm currently doing ACCA once
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you have that I think you're at a level where,
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you kind of wanted in a way you kind of you can kind of bargain for what you
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want yeah so i think it's really important putting yourself in a position where
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you can do the you have the options not like you just scrap scrambling for scraps
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or like looking for other things that aren't really in your path yeah,
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i've answered every every company needs an accountant ultimately don't you yeah
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it's not you can't legally be in the company if you don't have a life yeah,
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yeah i think a good thing is the well being a chartered Accountant is a protected
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term in the UK, internationally, actually.
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ACCA is a globally recognized board, should I say.
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So it's kind of like an edge in your CV to say that you're a chartered accountant.
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Can I ask, did you always have a good head for numbers and maths?
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Funny enough, so my GCSE grades, I got like a BC, I got a five,
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basically. The grades kind of changed.
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And then I actually wanted to do, my dad wanted me to do A-level mathematics. and I,
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I really don't want to do it, to tell you the truth. And I remember going to
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my teacher and asking, can I do A-level mathematics?
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And he sat me down. He said, OK, I'll give you a mini test. If you pass the
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test, you can do A-level mathematics. Didn't pass the test.
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I ended up doing business, economics and IT, which I think was very good.
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Really helped me because I always loved business.
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I did business in GCSE level and I did it A-level as well.
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So, but there was numbers in economics. There was numbers in business.
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But I've never been somebody who loves maths like that, no.
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And people always do ask me that oh you do accounting you must be like really
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good at maths I'm like no not really,
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you you have to be good at arithmetic basic arithmetic and the whole thing about
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accounting is just following standards you have standards you just have to follow
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following standards and I guess you also have to be a bit curious you have to
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be inquisitive yes yes yes that's yeah
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and trying to tell a story with the numbers that you have that's the that's
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the that's the whole thing really I remember in my third year,
19:41
for like our dissertation we had like a financial analysis course that we had
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to do so we had to pick two companies where we had to kind of
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look into the financial records and kind of tell a story of for example why
19:53
did revenue decrease by 15% from 2024 to 2025 or the other way around and it's
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kind of like doing your research and,
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reading articles and finding out it's it's that commercial acumen that you need to be an accountant.
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And someone like me, I started off in the publishing industry because I worked
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for the Liverpool University Press and now I work for a sporting goods company.
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So it gives you, it forces you to actually understand what's going on in your industry.
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So I'd say that's a great lesson. There's one more question for me.
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I just wanted to know, how do you leverage your skills? Do you use LinkedIn?
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How would, how do you, how do you do it?
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Funny you say that. I found my current job at LinkedIn.
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So I would say if I'm giving anybody advice, don't overlook LinkedIn.
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As frustrating as it can be because you have your other peers saying,
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oh, I'm just, I'm happy to announce that I'm da-da-da-da-da.
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I'd say LinkedIn is a good tool to use. As well as your CV, LinkedIn is a way
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to kind of also look at what others are doing, where look at the position that
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you see others, maybe who are like 10, 20 years into their career,
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and you see yourself doing that.
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Sometimes I kind of, even with my finance manager, I sometimes have a scroll
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up their page and be like, okay, they did this.
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How can I match up what can I
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do and it's also like humbling yourself to actually have conversations and
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you know direct message people like hi I'd love to have a chat how do you kind
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of get from this place to this place
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because currently I'm in a place where I want to level up so I think it's just
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having conversations with people and think what's the next step this is the
21:18
late late lunch show with Rod Maxwell supported by.
21:23
Where little explorers grow naturally well I really enjoyed that i thought that
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was really good how did you assess it,
21:29
uh yeah good topic and once again you know really engage people and altering
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them with a wide variety of views and i yeah i'm trying to try to think about
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what the overriding theme was i think the overriding theme was actually,
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there are certain degrees that have a clearer pathway into jobs like that young
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lady we spoke to in accountancy for example there are certain ones that,
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are are not and some people basically we're admitting,
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maybe there's a better path than university.
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And I think that's what we were challenging, really, people about.
22:02
Yeah, exactly. And I think that some industries have just become very cramped.
22:07
And it's very competitive, aren't they? While there are some industries that
22:10
aren't affected by AI, and like you said, they always need people, for example, finance.
22:15
And I guess, you know, I'm hearing that potentially before people commit to university.
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They're maybe thinking about, you know, what is it I, you know,
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how do I get a job rather than just getting the degree? It's actually getting
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the job. Yeah. Don't ride the pipeline dream.
22:33
Yeah. Do your research. Do your research because you've got to come out with
22:35
some debt and, you know, and you might have spent three or four years and actually be no better off.
22:43
And we heard some of that as well today. What's the ground plan? Yeah.
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But yeah, I think it's a good topic and I think one to follow up on maybe.
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It's very thought provoking. And I think you could branch on that out in the later lunch show.
22:54
You could branch it out to, you could do different industries,
22:57
like what the prospects are in so many different industries.
23:00
I'd like to talk to maybe some of the recruitment consultancy firms around here.
23:03
You know, what are they seeing as well? So I think we can branch out on it. So there you go.
23:08
A good topic. We'll speak more in the studio. We will. We'll speak about your
23:12
industry that you were in for so long, Rob, because I'd like to know more about that.
23:15
Okay. All right. Well, let's talk about that. It was good and very topical as
23:19
well, given the stats that have come out around university opportunities or
23:25
opportunities following university.
23:27
What did you make of it overall, James? Well, it's very pertinent because the
23:31
uni results came out on Thursday. So I think people are in a dilemma.
23:36
So, you know, what do they want to do?
23:38
What uni do they want to go to? What do they want to study?
23:42
And then obviously the bigger question is that one about, you know,
23:44
what sort of long-term jobs does it give them? Because I think there's some
23:48
people, they just look more in the short term, or maybe they do what they find
23:51
passionate, what are they passionate about.
23:53
And then what you're passionate about doesn't always mean that there's jobs
23:56
in that area of industry. Yeah. And I, you know, it's one of those things where.
24:02
It used to be, do you do something you enjoy, or do you do something that you
24:07
will, in terms of university, or do you do something that you guarantee to get a job in?
24:12
And in some ways, if you do something you enjoy, you're more likely to progress
24:17
in it because you're invested in it, if you know what I mean.
24:21
Yeah, it's a difficult balance, isn't it, really? Because you don't really want
24:24
to study something that you don't enjoy, because then that might lead to nothing.
24:28
So it's a difficult balance. It's a really, really difficult balance.
26:50
On a Monday we do View from the Street that was Two Door Cinema Club and Something
26:54
Good Can Work and work was one of the topics today on View from the Street James
26:59
is on the line with me we were talking James about really
27:02
is university the right course or not and there was that I think it was something like 27%
27:09
of graduates this year by September will have a job whether it be here in the
27:15
UK or elsewhere and that is a low percentage when you think of how many people
27:20
are coming out of university, isn't it?
27:22
Yeah, I would have thought that it wasn't a great percentage,
27:25
but I didn't know it was as low as that. So really, if I was in charge of the
27:30
news, I'd make that the top headline.
27:32
Well, that was in the Times newspaper. And I mean, the sense of the people that
27:39
we talked to today in Ulti, it wasn't necessarily a case of them being particularly
27:45
surprised by that, was it?
27:47
Yeah, no, they weren't. And I do have to credit people of Ultringum.
27:51
They're always very intellectual. They're always very well-informed.
27:55
And they always have a really good opinion for the show, which is amazing because they help us.
28:00
So kudos to them. And I think that they all came up with some good points today.
28:04
And I think unless you're extremely gifted in terms of, let's say,
28:10
an area of the industry that's not connected by AI and isn't insanely competitive,
28:16
and very small and niche, then it's going to be difficult for you.
28:19
But like you said earlier, someone always needs someone in finance.
28:23
So that's all right. And I think that things like maths, being good at maths,
28:26
which I'm not, but if you are good at maths, that's important.
28:29
And I think if there's something in science as well, that's always going to need jobs.
28:33
I wonder whether there's an aspect to which that we need to get a little bit
28:39
more practical linking up subjects with where there's demand for skills.
28:46
And is it an easy thing to do? You know, sometimes you're having to think 10
28:50
years, 15 years in advance.
28:52
But it does seem like there are some student courses and some topics,
28:59
subjects, that have a direct link to a job like the law, like medicine, like dentistry, etc.
29:06
And there is a high demand for those skills, I'm sure, in the world.
29:11
Not always in this country, but somewhere in the world.
29:14
And you know whether we need to we need to focus more on that because there
29:19
are a lot of subjects where they're they're very enjoyable to study but they
29:24
may not directly relate to you having a job.
29:28
Yeah, you know what I think, actually? I think that they actually need a lot
29:32
more career support than they do because, okay, they have career advisors,
29:36
but maybe they should try and make more advertising around it,
29:39
more mandatory, and more support sessions.
29:42
Colleges and universities, I think colleges are a lot better than universities,
29:45
but I think people need it in the community.
29:47
I think a lot of young people are quite lost right now with social media and
29:50
the way the world is in terms of what they want to do, and a lot of young people,
29:54
don't know what they want to do.
29:55
I think when I was actually 18, I didn't know what I wanted to do either.
29:57
So I think a lot of people were in that boat at that time then,
30:00
but I think there are definitely more people like that now.
30:03
And when you were doing your A-levels and looking at your first degree,
30:06
because you've done two further education courses, what was in your mind,
30:11
just doing something that you liked or were interested in?
30:13
Yeah, slightly upset with the lady at my college that was, she did a history
30:20
degree and she encouraged me to do that because I like history.
30:23
And she was exactly at the time, I wanted to be a journalist.
30:26
And she told me to do history because then you can be a journalist off that
30:29
when maybe I could have I don't feel like there were many journalism courses
30:33
at that time in her defence in 2010 I think it was only after 2012,
30:36
2014 I don't really think that,
30:38
Salford Uni one was even an option until a few years after.
30:42
So I don't think that would have been an option for me but I do think
30:46
maybe in hindsight I shouldn't have done that but I had other opportunities
30:50
because I've actually been I had a chance I could have studied at Liverpool
30:52
University I could have done history and politics I could have done international
30:55
relations or I could have done Newcastle University or Sheffield University for journalism.
30:59
But one thing I do regret is in 2012, I did actually get an offer after I finished first year.
31:05
I could have restarted again with the same university fees at Leeds University.
31:09
I could have done Middle Eastern studies and politics. And considering the way
31:12
the Middle East is now with Iran and Israel and Palestine, I do think that would
31:16
have been really useful because I could have done that degree in Leeds,
31:19
which I've only ever been to Leeds once or twice.
31:22
And I could have done that course made some good contacts and I could be,
31:26
doing something I really love, which is to do with the Middle East or international
31:30
relations and helping people and connecting charities and NGOs.
31:33
So that's something I regret.
31:36
Yeah, it's definitely a challenge at the moment.
31:41
What would you have done differently? Well, probably that. When I was 18,
31:45
19, 20, I was really interested in international relations and doing modern
31:48
United Nations where you pretend to be a country and then you want to debate.
31:52
You know, UN issues like North-South Sudan crisis and stuff like that, or historical crisis.
31:58
So I think that line of work would have been really exciting to work for NGOs,
32:02
and I think that would have been really good. But the problem with that is that
32:05
most of those jobs are in London, and I didn't want to stay in London, actually.
32:09
Well, I did go to study in London, so it's difficult because I think that,
32:13
although right now I'm actually more interested in home affairs,
32:16
but then it's like, what sort of jobs would that equate to?
32:18
Yeah, there's a statistic here in this article that said that according to reed.co.uk,
32:24
which is the employment agency,
32:28
that the number of graduate roles available, these are graduate jobs,
32:32
fell from 180,000 from four years ago to just 50,000 last year.
32:38
So if you think there's 50,000 graduate roles available, and that's down 180,000
32:46
in four years, you look at that and you say, right, okay, so There's greater competition.
32:53
The competition is more intense, but that's a massive drop in the level of opportunities out there.
32:59
I'm just saying that most people don't actually know what, some people do,
33:03
but I think that young people probably don't know what direction they're going
33:07
in. It's just, oh, let's go on Indeed and just slap in the application,
33:10
hit apply and slap the CV in.
33:13
And I think that some applications are too easy like that, but I think some
33:17
are too difficult because the ones that are difficult are like for example,
33:21
uh nhs ones where it's something like 30 pages long and it's just i think that
33:25
discourages people as well so i think there needs to be a better system in terms
33:29
of job applications themselves as well,
33:32
and indeed you know sometimes um it's questionable as to whether companies are
33:37
actually looking at applications coming in or this going through an ai bot or
33:42
something like that you know the whole thing seems to become very,
33:46
I'd say almost,
33:50
distant in some ways, you know? Yeah, but I think it's disappointing.
33:54
It certainly seems a lot different from when I was leaving university,
33:58
I have to say. So there you go.
34:02
I don't think it's... I think it's actually also discouraging and disappointing
34:06
because I think that when people go to university, they have a lot of hopes
34:09
and dreams and then when they leave, they're scared about that transition and,
34:15
that new part of their life and what it's going to look like.
34:17
And I think that if they were just I think if universities could just get employers into the building,
34:24
and have more guaranteed opportunities, where people have at least a six-month
34:28
opportunity, so everyone has that opportunity to at least something related to their degree.
34:33
They have six months somewhere of industry or a year, and at least you've got
34:37
something guaranteed on your CV rather than just scratching around,
34:41
you know, having no job, wanting to work in the pub or beyond benefits.
34:43
I don't think that's good for society. I think that's good.
36:58
We can work it out. And the subject today of Youth on the Street has been university
37:02
or not. Is university a guarantee of work and employment?
37:06
And it would appear not always the case with the statistic that's been surrounding
37:11
us this last week or so, where only 27% of students said they had secured a
37:17
job in UK or elsewhere for September.
37:19
That's 27% of those who graduated this year, which apparently is a historic low.
37:26
James, not a great situation, and certainly it seems to have declined in the last four or five years.
37:31
I know sometimes I wonder if Brexit has anything to do with it,
37:35
or it's just a global economic situation. I guess maybe it is more of a global
37:40
economic situation. I'm not sure. I wonder if it is just UK or whether this is across Europe.
37:46
Sorry, it'd be interesting to know whether it is or not.
37:49
But one thing I wanted to know is for you, what is your industry called again?
37:53
And was that easy for you to end? Is that what you envisaged?
37:56
Is that what you wanted to do?
37:57
Well, when I was at university, or school, sorry, I studied politics,
38:01
history, and geography at A-level, and.
38:05
I didn't really want to do history, and I didn't want to do politics,
38:09
and geography wasn't really that interesting to me.
38:12
And I wanted to do something new, and I did a business commerce degree,
38:17
and at the time I did it at Edinburgh, and a lot of people said Edinburgh is
38:21
too much of a red brick, Like too much of a theoretical university is not practical
38:25
enough as a course, but, but,
38:27
it had a good business, some studies faculty.
38:31
And I, I went in and did four years there. I did an honors degree.
38:36
But in some ways, it was very, not very practical degree because you didn't
38:40
really get close to that many businesses.
38:43
It was very theoretical. But in my summers, I worked in very,
38:49
very practical businesses and got to run a pub for a while, which taught me an awful lot.
38:54
And when I looked for jobs, I looked at a couple of industries,
39:00
brewing industry and a couple of others. And actually, I just find them to be
39:04
extremely uninspiring.
39:07
And I managed to then look at some consultancy firms. And one of the firms that
39:13
I interviewed for, I was particularly interested in. And that was management
39:17
consulting, IT consulting with what was then Anderson Consulting.
39:22
And it was a breath of fresh air. Both the interview was totally different.
39:27
I actually find the interview to be so much easier than I had done some of the
39:31
other jobs that weren't going to be paying as much.
39:34
So I was somewhat lucky, but at the same time that I went into something that
39:39
was very, very new at the time. And, um,
39:43
Yeah. And anyway, a challenging job, but actually very, very enjoyable.
39:47
And I always wanted to do something that I hadn't done before.
39:50
That's why I chose business studies as a course. And then consulting was something
39:54
I thought, that's going to be interesting. I'm going to learn a lot and it's going to test me.
40:00
I just found when I was doing the recruitment process for them that they were,
40:05
exciting, interested. They made you feel like they wanted you,
40:10
which was not always the case with some of the other companies I interviewed for.
40:15
Okay, and you did that for, what, was it 23 years? I did that from 1993 until
40:21
I had to retire in 2016. I worked for two different firms.
40:25
I worked for Anderson Consulting. It became Accenture. And for them, up until 2008.
40:32
And then I swapped jobs, and I joined PricewaterhouseCoopers in their business
40:37
consulting team, first of all, as a director.
40:40
And then I became a partner four months before I had my brain tumor.
40:44
So, yeah, I did 23 years of consulting. But I have to say, every year was different.
40:52
I never really did the same job twice.
40:56
It always kept me challenged. had always kept me,
40:59
learning new things and working in different industries so i i have to say i i i,
41:05
i enjoyed that that career and you also had to make a lot of relationships with
41:10
people build connections and you know get on well with people diplomatic
41:15
yeah i actually i think in some ways that was one of the key skills and the
41:19
other key skill was being curious,
41:22
asking questions always looking you know not assuming the obvious.
41:26
And, and being, being adaptable basically.
41:31
So, you know, but I think curiosity was a big, was a big skill set that you
41:37
had to have really. And you are a very curious person, Rob.
41:40
You're always curious to know more about the world than the universe. Well, you know what?
41:44
Sometimes it's, I find it easier to answer, ask a question than to answer it, James.
41:48
So maybe I'm just trying to stay ahead, you know, but yeah.
41:52
Yeah, so I was somewhat lucky in my career, but once I got the job,
41:55
it was a lot of hard work and there were a lot of people who dropped out,
42:00
and a lot of people who probably were more intelligent and more capable than
42:05
me dropped out, but I just became determined and probably a little bit dogmatic
42:11
and just stuck in there, really.
42:13
Do you miss your work then? Yes and no. You know, I miss the interest that it
42:21
brings, the challenges it brings, the people sometimes that you meet that are
42:25
interesting and challenging.
42:28
And what you learn from it.
42:29
But there was also a high degree of politics. There was a lot of travel, a huge amount of travel.
42:35
I don't miss the travel side of it anymore because it just became,
42:40
it wasn't really enjoyable travel. It became necessity.
42:44
That took up a lot of my time so you know I worked a lot of hours but a lot
42:48
of those hours were travel time as well because you worked in Switzerland didn't you?
42:53
I did I worked in Switzerland for nearly two years traveling over there every week,
42:59
And that involved a lot of hours
43:02
sitting in airports and waiting for connections and that type of thing.
43:07
But at the same time, it was a great opportunity to learn a different culture,
43:12
to work with people from a different culture.
43:14
And it kept you challenged every single day of the week, I have to say.
43:19
Well, anyway, this wraps up episode 16 of season six of View from the Street, Uni or Not.
43:25
You can catch that on podcast. You can catch that on Mixcloud as well,
43:30
live, of course, on Radio Alty every Monday. James, we'll do another one next week.
43:35
Yes, indeed. This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by...
43:41
Where little explorers grow naturally.