Latest / Ryder Lee / WILLIAM RAMSEY | THE CATCHER IN THE RYE

Transcript

WILLIAM RAMSEY | THE CATCHER IN THE RYE · Ryder Lee

• 0:57
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• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it's also on Vimeo. The links are in the description.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So with that down, our guest today as a podcaster
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: investigator exposing politics, true crime, history, conspiracies, religion and cults,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: here to talk to us about catching the Rye. William Ramsey,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. How's it going on, my friend?
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Well, thanks for inviting me. It's good to be with you.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, since it is your first time on the channel,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: give the audience a little bit of background on you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and how you delve so deep into all these topics
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: because you cover so much stuff, dude, it's really incredible,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: especially the true crime stuff and the Smiley Face killer.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So what got you down this rabbit hole of investigating
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: all this stuff?
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I think it was coming from the mainstream media. I
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: was just sick of watching the mainstream media and doing
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: superficial takes on certain things. And I was never thought
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I'd be a journalist or a book writer, but I
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: was actually doing a lot of my own research without
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: a podcast or anything like. I was really a researcher
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: into nine to eleven. I didn't never publish any of
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: my findings. I kind of did in my first book,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Profit of Evil, but I was always kind of doing it,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and then it kind of morphed into it. I was
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: writing books, and I made some documentaries, and then I
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: worked for ed Opera and the Opera and report that
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: I started being a host, and then it cod happened
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: and I kind of turned this into a full time job.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So I've got I think over thirteen hundred episodes now
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: my podcast, five books, and five documentaries all on my
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: that you can find on my Patreon. So that's kind
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: of like a short summation.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you also hadn't made documentaries. What
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: are they on the true crime stuff as well?
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've have two based on my books. So I
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: have one called Profit of Evil. I have another one
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: called Children of the Beast. I did one called a
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Cult Hollywood, and then I have two documentaries about the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: smiley face killing phenomenon, which is young men disappearing out
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: of bars or urban areas, later to be found in water,
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: often way past the time of when they should have
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: been found. Some are like found it magically appear forty
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: days later in really good shape. Like so it's a
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: really dark topic. It's still kind of happening today. They
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: just found one in Oxford, another victim. So yeah, So
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: those are my five documentaries.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: That's that's really interesting. I have to definitely check those
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: out when I get well.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: They can't. They weren't up because Amazon wouldn't let me
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: put them up on Amazon. I think ones on Amazon,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: but they're like, no, you can't. I don't even know why.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: So I had to kind of have They were on
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Vimeo and then I just moved into my Patreon.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Vimeo is a really good platform because Amazon doesn't really
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: distribute it like worldwide. I think A Clockwork Training came
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: out in the UK and in the United States, but
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: everywhere else, like in Canada and other places, so we
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: just dropped it up on Vimeo. Why do you think
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that there's like such a big fascination with true crime,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and we're going to get into the catcher and the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: right stuff here. I just want to kind of give
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the audience a little easier into you as a as
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: a person and get a little bit of your background.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that people are so interested in
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: true crime? Because it's really hit a peak. It's like
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Netflix is doing all these documentaries on true crime, Hulu's
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: doing them, and Peacock's doing them. It seems like this
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: really heavy trend right now that a lot of people
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: are interested in true crime. What do you think that
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: that mechanism behind that is.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's the number one genre and I think
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: people get kind of a thrill from it, so they
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: kind of hear these dark stories and that one on
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Jeffrey Dahmer had a billion downloads on Netflix alone, like
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: it's incredible numbers, Like global numbers are off the chart.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you're absolutely right. I think people maybe some
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: of these topics haven't been discussed in detail, and so
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: there are people are going over them again. But I
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: know they're coming out with the Chaos one on the
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Chaos Book with Aero Morse is directing at the one
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: by Tim you know, that's coming out in March, so
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: that'll be interesting. But I think it's just the public
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: appetite for it. It's kind of like I said, it's
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: kind of like people get a dark thrill out of it.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: If it's also kind of becomes kind of like these
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: serial killers they drift into kind of a celebrity kind
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: of realm in some ways, like people know they're serial
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: killers and things like that. So I think I think
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: there's something about it, Like I think it's the interest
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: in watching things like theater and watching movies about criminals
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: and things like that. Is that people can see it
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: but not be part of it too.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I think that makes a lot of sense. And it
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: seems like in the sixties and into the seventies and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: even part of the eighties, it was like nothing but
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: serial killers, like that was what was pushed out front
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in the consciousness of like the media, and then that
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: kind of like took a backseat. You don't really hear
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: too much about modern day serial killers though. You just
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: brought up the smiley face killers and that is supposedly
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: still happening, But you don't really hear about like modern
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: day serial killers anymore. It kind of shifted focus to
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: like the external enemy. And you just talked about nine
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: to eleven, and how's that shifted the focus from an
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: internal enemy to an external enemy and terrorism, and then
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: it it's serial killers, then domestic terrorism, and then outside
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: threat foreign terrorism, and then it went back to domestic terrorists.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: It's like the shifting all over the place.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's true. There was definitely, I think a
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: scientifically analyst spike and serial killings in the seventies and
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: eighties and then a drop off, at least in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: recording ones. And I don't think scientists know why that happened.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I think some people know, like maybe Dave Mcowan, that
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: these people all had some kind of weird military connection
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: or background and may have led them to extreme acts
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: of violence. So the sixties and seventies were really violent.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: They were really violent. I mean, we live in a
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: violent world and it's been there's still violence that takes place.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: But there definitely was a spike of these serial killers
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: around that time. Maybe it was the Vietnam War. All
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: those guys had connections to the Vietnam War, and then
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: they came back and just kept killing and stuff.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that this is like the serial
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: killer phenomenon was kind of only isolated to the United
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: States because you don't really hear too many like other
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: serial kill Sure you know of some, but they're kind
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: of far and few between. Of serial killers in other countries.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: It seems like it's like a it's kind of like
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the UFO phenomenon, Like the hub of the UFO phenomenon
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: is happening in the United States. I think it doesn't
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: happen anywhere else.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: I think there's more there's serial killers like the Yorkshire Ripper,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: and there's stories out of France, and there's serial killers
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: there and Italy, but they're not certainly not reported as
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: much in the States. But I think the States is
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: kind of the worldwide winner serial killings. So yeah, it's interesting.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's we live in a violent country. Were kidding,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: it's I mean, we all like reality out there's all
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: kinds of tension and you know, angry people and racism
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: and things like that, so it shouldn't be that surprising.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so interesting when you kind of take
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: a step back from the things we've been involved in
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: in the United States and then you kind of step
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: back to it, and you're like, how do other countries,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: you know, respond to this stuff like our cryptids and
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: UFOs and like, I know it's a completely different topic,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: but it's around the same realm, Like do they obsess
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: about that stuff? And like other countries Like, I don't know.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of things are just isolated to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the United States and this is the things that like
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: we're interested in and the rest of the world really
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't give a shit about any of it. It's so weird.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I found that the UK is interested in these parapolitical subjects.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I think Germany does too. I've talked to a couple
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: of researchers in Germany who were interested in kind of
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: MK ultra mind control and secret history. So I think
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: it just may not reach from outside into the US.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I think it's out there, but yeah, it is interesting
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: how the US is kind of a nexus point.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So let's get into this Catcher in the Rye stuff,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: because you watched several parts of the latest documentary and
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: is heavily focused on, you know, a Catcher in the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Rye and Joe al Well I came in and gave
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: his explanations in his theories as to what do you
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: believes Ketcher in the Rye was at around an hour
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: into the documentary. I'm not sure if you got that
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: far with it, but I didn't.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: That's kind of what triggered this in this My research
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: into Ketchering the Rye actually was kind of oh really well.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: I had done a show in twenty twenty four. It
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: was in April, and it was for a program I
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: was working on. It was called the d Hypno Program,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: which is kind of like my symbol is a TV
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: with a red ex across its. Stopped watching the hypn Box,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: but it was because I was bickering with somebody online
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: about catching the Rie. He's like, oh, ketching the Ride
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the death of Lennon, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: so I was like, I knew there was more to
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: that story. I knew that Chapman was strange and that
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: he had had the book. So I did a kind
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: of deep dive and looked into some books that did that. Then.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: So then I saw your documentary The Clockwork Shining, and
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: saw these people in there. And of course I was
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: on Walter Boseley show, who's also in your documentary. I
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: think he's in the chat right now. Hey, Walter everybody. Anyway,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I was going to be on his show and started
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: doing more and more research, and I think and I
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: read the book. So the book to me was really troubling,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Like actually I'd read it in high school and I
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: did a rock search. And this book has sold sixty
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: five million copies worldwide. It's really a cultural phenomenon. So
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: it's not like some kind of lost book or anything.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: It's been there's it's been high school students have been
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: exposed to this book, whether they read it or understood
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: it or not, for generations, for decades. And it's tied
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: into the shining much like you had your documentary. Had
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: other films. One is Conspiracy Theory, and another's Chapters of
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: twenty seven with Jaredlito, which is really about Chapman, but
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: also it's tied into these assassinations we have close to
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: each other too, the death of Lennon, the attempted killing
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: of Reagan. And then there was one later in Hollywood.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Her name was Rebecca Schaeffer. And I'm trying to tie
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: in and we'll see this this apt will He did
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: two that I know of. He did two papers. One
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: was about the Masonic influence in Catcher in the Rye
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: and the other's pedophilia in Catcher in the Rye, which
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: is really there and it's very disturbing. So that's kind
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: of led up to this presentation because I think it's
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: important for people to understand this kind of culture creation.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And this book ties into Kinsey, believe it or not,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: who came out with sexuality, Sexuality and the Male in
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: forty eight. And there's repeated phrases in this book that
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: ape is research, which I've found. I've researched it and
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: done a lot of inquiry into Kinsey and he's a
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: complete fraud and all his work is fake and his
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: conclusions are the same as cruelies. You can pretty much
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: do whatever you want, and he was involved in really
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: horrible abuse, like next level abuse of kids and stuff
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: like that. Pedophile. But I mean, so you see these
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: kind of overlaps in this post war cultural creation, and
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: there's mind control themes in this too. So that's why
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: I kind of reached out to you and said, hey,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: you should, you should listen to this presentation. I think
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: you'll find it very interesting. So I think I have
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: about one hundred slides and some videos if you're interested.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: All Right, let's get to it.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: And Tim Houston mentioned Fenton Bressler, So we're going to
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: go into Fenton Bressler's book here in a minute. But
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: this is the cover. This is the more famous cover,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the red cover, and you'll find that this apes some
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: of the other stuff that's in the book. So the
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: lead characters holding call field right, and at Will explain
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: this like the call when a baby's board. If the
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: call is part of the placenta, I believe it's over
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: the face. It's like a sign of second sight. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: you'll see these weird overlaps between the catcher and statements
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: in the book and the field right, the field of rye.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: So the catcher in the rye, so hold in call Field.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Actually his name represents this kind of dreamy second sight
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: of the field where he dreams about being a catcher
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: in the rye. It's actually a misunderstanding, like Atwill said,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: it's a misunderstanding of the Robert Burns poem that says,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a different phrase in the Robert Burns poem,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: which is trying to remember it offhand. It's if a
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: body catch a body coming through a rye. So it's
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: not like it's catching a body, but it's not like
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: it's the person's given a proper noun of catcher.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So this is he's essentially saying that he wants to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: catch his children.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Before they go off the cliff. But also there's this
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: other element of catching. There's a trigger at the very
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: end of the book where he sees the words FU
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: all written out and he says, if I catch that guy,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna kill him. So there's a very strong, violent
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: driving language, like almost like psycho linguistics going on from
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: the very beginning of this book, and it's very I
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: found it to be very profound and repetitive. Phrases are
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: in this book as well, where he says like you will,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: you will, you will, and we'll see this in there
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: they talk about dissociative states. The character hold In Callfield
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: is in the care of a psychiatrist, like at thirteen
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: and yeah, no, he's been. The book ends with him
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: in a psych word.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can you control the slides from your in? Yeah,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of course, do I control them all?
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: We can both do it. You can just do the
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: like the slides, but like these are the common images
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: associated with the book. Is this one book? And then
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: this is the one that cares. So he sees his sister,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: he's his favorite person. What he's trying to do after
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: he leaves Pensy, which is the which is the prep
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: school that he was at, He's trying to go see
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: his sister Phoebe, who's ten, and he identifies with her,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: but he always says she kills me, like really strong language.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: And you see that he's dissociating. And he also so
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: doesn't see reality, right, he doesn't when it takes place.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: He's going in Central Park, right right where Chapman was
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: this incredible overlays but holding call feel is in Central
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Park and the carousels in Central Park, and he doesn't
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: understand where the ducks go, so he writes it like
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: where do the gut ducks go when they're not there?
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: He doesn't understand that the ducks fly south for the winner, right,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: simple things that a sixteen year old should understand. So
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you see this kind of thing where he's detached from
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: reality like a schizo. But this is why you see
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: this imagery here, and that's the kind of subtext of
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: this kind of attraction to his sister. He dances with
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: his sister. He pinches her body. She's in bed. He
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: puts a pillow over her face. There's all kinds of
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: really unnerving elements that I think at Will keys into
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: in his paper which I read. But this is his hat.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: This his hat. He uses this hat to put on.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: It's a human hunting hat. He puts it on to
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: hunt people. He wears a people shooting hat. I shoot
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: people with this hat, is what he says. He has
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: almost every psychologue negative psychological trait available. He's a pyromaniac.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: He says he's a sex maniac, but he's impotent. He's
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: an insult. He's actually really an insult. He's always talking
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: about sex. He's had like ten or twenty pedophile experiences
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: in his life where somebody's hitting on him or trying,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: which is one in this book. His professor Antolini. He
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: wakes up and this professor's petting his head while he's
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: on a couch. He has all kinds of stuff. He's afraid,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: he's suicidal, he's chained, smokes, he's fascinated and scared by blood.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: So there's very strong themes. When you really take apart
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: this book in a paranoid way or a critical way,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: it gets really weird. But thist this imagery at first
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: glance is just a walking around with a hat, a
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: weird hat, talking about ducks. But this typifies and exemplifies
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the character of holding callfield guy wearing a human hunting hat.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: You cannot understand where the ducks go, right.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's in this disassociative identity disorder is commonly happens
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to people like through trauma. And that's essentially what the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: doctor is saying to Windy in the beginning of the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Shining is that these visions and these abilities that Danny
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: was developing came after the time that Jack abused Danny.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: So it comes from abuse that you normally get these
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: disassociative disorder.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: And there's that element. But Phoebe's always saying Dad is
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: going to kill you. Dad's going to kill you, you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: And it makes the father look very strong. He's never
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: really shown in this thing, like it's the lack of parenting.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: The mother's there, but the dad that's not around. It's
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: kind of like a Disney movie, you know, or the
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: dad's never there. But for all these characters, all these
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: female characters. But yeah, it's really strange, like he may
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: he may have been he was in care of a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: shrink since he was thirteen. He also his brother had
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: died and he broke all these windows somewhere and he writes,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I don't didn't know what I was doing. I didn't
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: remember what was And the movie starts out where he's
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: on a hill overlooking the school and he says it
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: was cold as a witch's teat, especially on top of
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: that stupid hill. So everything's negative. He's totally nihilistic, and
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: he just it's a depersonalization trait. So because everybody's phony
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: and fake, he's like depersonalizing them as real people. They're
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: just all phonies and fakes.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Is that where that phrase come from? It comes from
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: coot as a witch's teeth.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I don't think I don't come from this, but it's
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: a figure. But basically that means he starts off this
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: whole narrative alone on top of a hill, on top
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: of something he calls is a witch his boob, you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: witch's breast, which is kind of type telling. It ties
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: into this kind of impression that I think the writer's
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: trying to give that he's special, or the call and
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: the thing and the witch's things and there's all kinds
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: of kind of dark references in this I actually believed
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: it or not. He goes into like this Egyptian tomb
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: and sees mummies, and he goes to a bar called
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: the wicker Bar if you remember the Wicker Man. That's
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: like human sacrifice. And there's hints of you know, sexual
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: abusive care of doctor Thurmer. I mean it just this
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: book is that you could see why people were upset
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: with this book. It's full of loaded stuff. It's very
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: dark fore even for nineteen fifty one. And he repeats
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: to himself, I'm like a madman. He says he's a
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: madman over and over, so he's almost like driving himself
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: into this psychological state. I'm a madman.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: It's just so self hypnosis. That's also what the doctor said,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Wendy as to the reason why he's having these visions
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and having these abilities is through self hypnosis.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: He talks to the mother of one of his cohorts
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: at school and he says, I put her into a trance.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: So this whole thing of like a trance state, which
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: we'll see that's reflected in Chapman. Even the word is
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: used in description of Chapman these are psychological states. This
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: has been supposedly written by Salinger when he was thirty two.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: He was definitely in intel. He had already come back
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: from World War Two, but he I mean, and there's
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: weird overlaps with a lot of stuff going on in
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: World War two where they were like debriefing Nazis and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: finding Nazis and you and Cameron was there, who was
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: the guy who did the notorious kind of experiments up
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: at McGill University, right, the ones that were the ultures
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: social But he wrote a couple of books about like
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: how like the psychology of Germans and how do we
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: stop this war? And they're really hard to find. But
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: he was definitely involved in war. In the war, much
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: like Salinger was. Salinger went into a mental institution for
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: he went in for what they called shell shock PTSD or.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Something like that right after the war. Yeah, so then
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: he got out and then he wrote this.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Book exactly so he came out.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Wait did he write the book in the psych word.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: There's well, it gets really strange, like there's there's not
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: a lot we know that he had a relationship with
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: a young girl when he was thirty two, and she
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: was fourteen, and she actually is online, So it's almost
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: like aping this relationship, this pedophile relationship in the book
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: in his real life and she's online talking about a
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: relationship with this kind of shut in. Salinger kind of disappeared,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: you know. He became a recluse, and he had no
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: other real achievements. He had Franny and Zoe, but he
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: had no other of like literary nothing like the sales
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: of this book. But yeah, so like he comes out
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: of a mental institution and writes his book. There's no
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: doubt about it.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: That would be so wild if he at least had
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the thought to write the book while he was in
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the mental institution. And then he writes a book about
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a guy writing a book inside of a mineral stitution.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Right, No, it gets really strange. So there's this idea
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: of insanity or breakdown dissociative states. He clearly is dissociative
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: and he doesn't keep things together. But there's also sexual
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: perverse themes, sadism, transvestism, voyeurism, prostitution. Like it's dark, like
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: he's all but he's an insult. He gets a prostitute
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: from this guy Manuel, who's the guy who's managing or
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: running the elevator and he just talks to her. But
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: he he calls himself a sex maniac in his mind,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: but he doesn't he doesn't complete the act with the one,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: which is kind of makes him even more of a
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: frustrated person, right because he's like always he's always asking
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: everybody about their sex lives, but he doesn't have one,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: so like his roommate strat later and his girlfriend and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: all this other stuff, but he always blames everybody else.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: It's never his fault. People are always ruining things for you.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: He says. One of the sayest things he said is
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: a woman's body is a violin. So like that's kind
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: of like a really dark BDSM kind of concept, like
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: to say that for a sixteen year old. But one
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: of the other elements of this book is it's anti
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Christian and it's very stark. He does not identity. He
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: thinks all of the Apostles are chumps, and he identifies
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: with the lunatic in the Bible. I don't know if
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: you remember the story of Legion. Have you ever heard
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: that part of the Bible?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: No, I've seen the movie Legion.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: It's based a Legion. That movie. The concept of Legion
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: is based on the sequence in the Bible. I forgot
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: what's Mark five four. Christ go out into the wilderness
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: and there's a man who cannot be restrained. He's demon possessed,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: and Christ says he if Jesus asked him, what is
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: your name? And the response is my name is Legion,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: he replied, for we are many, and he begged Jesus
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: again and again not to send them out of the area.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: The demons beg Jesus send us among the pigs, allow
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: us to go into them. He gave them permission, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: The herd about two thousand and number rushed down the
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: steep back into the lake or drought. So this is
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: who holding Callfield identifies with. Is Legion a literal demon
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: possessed man?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it gets really crazy. He asked later, is
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Judas going to hell? He's suicidal and he says in
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: one sequence, page one seventy four, I swear to God
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I'm a madman. And then this guy loose. He's probably
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: based upon Louise who ran Time Life back in that
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: in the day, he's like the sexologist, but he's repeating
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: this kinsy idea, Like he says to holding golf Callfield,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: half of married guys were gay, which isn't true. It's
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: less than ten percent or five percent. It's complete nonsense.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: But that was the kind of social change they were pushing.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: So this book is part of that kind of culture
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: creation or culture nudging or anything like that. So it's
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: just really crazy. I mean, he dissociates the narrative. It's
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: in his mind, and then the book ends with like
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: he it doesn't end with like a positive finish. It
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: doesn't end like this is what I learned from this experience,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: he says. He breaks the fourth wall. He's talking to
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: you because you're in his mind, which is really kind
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: of a dark psychological space too, because you're not reading
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: like this, you're not watching this narrative from outside looking in.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: You're in his brain. And he says, I don't know
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: why I'm telling you this. I guess I'm just telling
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: you this because it's there and I don't know what
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: to think about it. So he doesn't have like a
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: positive conclusion for or against what's going on in his book.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: His sister's not around and his parents aren't around him.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: He's in a mental institution. So the book itself has
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: these really profound psychological states. It has the subtext of
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: like all I mean, he's like getting abused by his professors,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: people are committing suicide. It's very dark. But then you know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: this is sixty five million copies. That's what Salinger look like,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: right holding call Fields And this is kind of a
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: thing overlapping about Salinger, who is a rich guy who
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: grew up in New York, so he's kind of similar
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to Callfield in that way. Call Field's rich in the
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: book wealthy, And then that's him like landing at Normandy's
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: seventy seven, that's his cat, So we know he was
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: in the war. But it goes all the way on
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: this book goes all the way up to these killers.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Right Mark David Chapman making this thing, and then three
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: and a half months later he making the same hand
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: sign is you know, supposedly shot at d Reagan.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: So isn't it interesting how they they look very similar?
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed that?
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Why do they have that still face?
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Right when I was making the documentary, I actually got
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: confused at a couple of points, and I had to
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: go back and make sure that whenever people were talking
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: about Mark David Chapman or John Hinckley Junior, that I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: was bringing up the right person on screen because they
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: look so similar.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, there's something eerie about the similarities between them
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: and their attachment to this book. And we'll find out.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: I'll show you the kind of Fent and Brezler book.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: They like. Chapman took on this character of holding Coffield,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: but he just suddenly kind of like had an affection
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: for catching the rye, which is kind of inexplicable. How
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: does it? Somebody just start picking it up. But we'll
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: read some stuff. But this is an interesting thing. This
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: is from TMZ. John Hinckley Junior asked by ex users
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: to assassinate Donald Trump. This is from November, you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: so like this is still kind of current. He's still around,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: He's on social media. But this whole relationship between Caulfield
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: and his sister Phoebe is aped by this movie Taxi Driver,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: where the character Travis Bickle is based on Arthur Bremer.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Bickle is then the Hinckley idolizes Bickle, right, So Bickle's
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: based on Bremer Bremers tried to kill George Wallace and
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: But Hinckley had this kind of relationship like Caulfield with
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: his sister, this imagined relationship with Jodie Foster. And she's
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: like a sexual in my opinion, sexualized twelve year old
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: or whatever by Bickle. But he's suicidal Hinckley is. But
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: this is from the President has been shot. And it's
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: an interesting passage because Hinkley listened to this. Hinkley identified
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: with Travis and began to act like him after he
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: had seen the film fifteen times. So he had watched
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Taxi Driver fifteen times. He bought the same clothes, ate
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: the same foods, drank the same liquors, and invented a girlfriend,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: just as had Bickle. So he's taking on the persona
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: of Travis Bickle this fictional film, but supposedly doing stuff
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: in real life.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Then you have this other guy, Robert John Bartom. Some
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: people don't know about this case. It's a scary looking dude.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But he killed Rebecca Shaeffer. He went to her door.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: And there's weird things about him too. In addition to
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: his affinity for the Catcher in the Rye right, and
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: this is from an article that I found. I'll read
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: it to you.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Was Ketcher in the Rye found on his person as well, like.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: A red paperback copy of the one we saw at
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the beginning. A red paperback copy of Ketcher on the
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Rye was found on the roof of the Beverly Palm
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Rehabilitation Center on Beverly Boulevard. He Bartow indicated that he
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: threw a red covered paperback book entitled Catcher in the
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Rye in the alley when he was running, said a Scoto.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: The discovery of the book hark back to the nineteen
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: eighty one shooting a former beatle. It was actually nineteen
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: eighty former Beatle John Lennon by one time mental patient
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Mark David Chapman in New York City. After they're the
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: obsessed man shot the rock Singer, he calmly took out
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: a copy of the J. D. Sallengeer novel and was
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: reading it when Pece police arrived. And so then you
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: see here the newspapers at the time like dealt with
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Hinkley and Mark David Chapman at the same time. So
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: this is like the same page of a newspaper and
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: it says, read's catcher in the Rye passage in court.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: And we'll get to that. I'll get all. I'll explain this,
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: but it gets weird. So there's Hinkley who started to
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: do this, and then there's Bardo, obsessed Fvan Robert Bardo
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: carried the catcher in the Ryan his assassin's kit to
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: kill actress Rebecca Schaeffer because John Lennon's killer carried the
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: same book, Park Deets, who if you watched like TV,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: he's on TV all the time. Barta was not insane
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: when he killed the actress, but suffered from a schizophrenic
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: disorder known as splitting, well champered his ability to form
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: the intent for murder. The psychiatrist testified Deets, concluding eight
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: days on the witness stand, said that Barta splitting meant
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: he alternated between seeing Schaeffer is all evil or all good,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: but was not aware of the shift in his motion emotion.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: So he's like cold and Callfield. He doesn't recognize. He
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: doesn't have that kind of self analytical skill.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure John Hinckley has been released from
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I think he got relieved. Well, he wasn't in prison.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I think he was in a psychiatric facility for around
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: thirty years and then they released him in twenty twenty two,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I believe. And I think he has a YouTube channel
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: now where he like it's a music YouTube channel about
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: like folk music.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he plays stuff. I think he plays stuff on
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: requir Quest, you know, just more stuff about the Rye
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Hinckley and Chapman's right here, this kind of qus killer
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: had a copy of Catcher. That's Rebecca Schaeffer. That's wild
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: and I supposedly and we'll see this kind of thing
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: here with Atwill's work, but it's supposedly linked to GfK
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: because supposedly I haven't verified this, but not only did
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Oswald have a copy, but he liked the book.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, supposedly it was his favorite book as well. But yeah,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to find out where that came from
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: as well, and I haven't been able to track down
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the source. But as soon as I do, I'll be
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: sure to let you know.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: If anybody out there knows where that sources, please let
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: us know. We Brant you mentioned at Will, but we
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: were talking about that, kind of chatting about that outside
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: of this presentation. This is kind of the infamous scene.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: This was, like you said, this was seventy nine, right,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: so this is even before the killings.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Well eighty. It was released in eighty, so it was
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: filmed in seventy nine and leased an eighty. I think
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: it was started filming in seventy eight, so released an eighty.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this was a roughly around a year before
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: both attempted assassinations. And what year in date was the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: the other one that you.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Mentioned, Barto, I think was in the late eighties.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so several years later, but.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Still, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't close around this, But yeah,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: this is incredible. I mean, and apparently at the very
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: end of catching the rye, Phoebe's wearing a blue dress
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: like this, so they're they're they're insinuating that she's Phoebe.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I think Wendy's Phoebe.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: How how of Kubriic, How could Kubrick know to put
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: that book that it was going to be involved in
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: all of these assassinations. I have absolutely no idea. Then
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: throughout the Shining, that's what Jack is trying to do
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: to his Family's trying to assassinate and kill his family. Right.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: This is from the movie Conspiracy Theory. Maybe you can
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: play this video radio.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: How long? How long is it do you know?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Oh like thirty seconds. I don't know. Maybe you might
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: get into trouble on YouTube. Actually, maybe it's not a
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: good idea. I have a video of this sequence where
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: he goes into a bookstore Mel Gibson's character and buys
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: a catcher in the rue.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I've seen that one.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: That one's So this is Atwill stuff. This is Atwill's
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: catching the Rye. And the last sentence is it is
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: alleged that Lee Harvey Oswald had a copy in his
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: apartment and that it was one of his favorite books.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: So this is disputed. But that's his Freemason in the
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Rye from his website. This is from twenty fifteen, So
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I think he keyed into that. This is one of
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: his statements. This is a people shooting hat. I said,
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: I shoot people in this at This is the repetitive
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: statements that happened throughout this book. And I think it's intentional.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Like Trump repeats statements all the time, he's doing it
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: intentionally because he wants you wants the idea to get
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: planted in your head, right, that's why people repeat these phrases.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: And this is currently Jack and the Shining that's repeating
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the same phrase over again.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Exactly. So this is kind of like you can go
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: get the audiobook to Catch and Red. This is the
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: picture on there, so it's holding wearing the human hunting hat.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I shoot people in the set. It's very dark. I
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: read that this guy doesn't He doesn't even believe that
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Chapman shot Lennon. He was there, but he was just
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: the patsy. Fully, this is David Wheeland. This is the
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: most recent book on Yes, he calls it mind games.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: He has tons of stuff on mind control in this book.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: But I'm going to go to a more recent book
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: fent In Bresler and read from this.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what Walter talks about in the documentary. He's
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: kind of on the fence of Shan Shan actually shot
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: RFK because there's a lot of really strange evidence pointing
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: to the fact that the San may I not even
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: have done it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: So I've done some shows on that, talked to some
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: very good researchers. In the kill shot for RFK came
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: behind his head, according to the medical example Examiner. I
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: think it was hor Ucci. He said it was came
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: from an inch behind his head, and Sir Hand was
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: never behind him, it was always in.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Front of him.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And we'll get into some of the Sir Hans repetitive phrases,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: but these are just interesting. And this is that that's
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: interesting to bring up, Sir An, because this is a
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: connection between Sir Hann and Chapman. This is a secret.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: This is from page forty nine. When you come to
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: read in detail about how Mark Chapman behaved after Lenin's murder,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: you will find a striking parallel between the days in
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: a trance like condition of the two men. Mark remembered
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: more of the actual killing, but otherwise their reactions were
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: almost identical. So I saw him the night of the murder.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: I studied him intensely. He looked as if he could
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: have been programmed. And I know you what use you
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: are going to make of that word. So that's Sir Hans,
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Sir Hand, and Chapman. And that word trance is in
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: the book too, like Holden's putting somebody else into a trance.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: It's crazy, wo, so hypnotizing them essentially, the connection between
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Sir Hans Sir Han and Chapman is they had the
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: same doctor, doctor Bernard Diamond. And this is in this
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: book as like a footnote, but I think it's one
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: of the most important things. There's an odd footnote to
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: all this. The principal medical defense witness for Sir Hand
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: was doctor Bernard Diamond of the University of California, one
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: of America's leading psychiatrists to use hypnosis in his work.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: Thirteen years later, he was to be one of the
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: defense psychiatrists in Mark's case. His diagnosis for the two
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: men was the same paranoid schizophrenia. He seems not to
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: have used hypnosis in either of his two interviews with Mark,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: although he hypnotized Sir Hand on six of his eighth
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: business visits to great effect. For instance, when doctor Diamond
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: asked Sir Hand where he had concealed his gun while
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: waiting for Kennedy, Sir Hand, in his trance, went for
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: the inside of his belt on the left side and
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: policed at last knew where he'd carried the weapon.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Wait, so he's hypnotizing him. This is a therapist that's
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: hypnotizing him after he had supposedly murdered RFK correct, What
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: is this a reasoning behind they wanted.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: To study him. Yeah, Chapman had six doctors. He had
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: another guy Klein, who was a known hypnotist. He was
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: surrounded by hypnotists. This is surrounded by doctors. Even he
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: worked at a hospital in Honolulu on Awa. And we'll
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: see this connection to Ruth here in a second. This guy,
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: the second killer attempted killer of Trump, like was five. Oh,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: he's basically like three thousand yards or like two miles
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: away from where Chapman lived. And then Mangioni also was
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: from o Wahu as well. So you have three strange
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: kind of guys who are traveling around and even Mangioni,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: like literally the shooting of the Healthcare CEO was like
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: six or seven blocks from Central Park, like where all
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: of the art of catching the rite takes place. That's incredible.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: That's so strange that they would bring in so many hypnotists,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: because we know with hypnotists they can essentially like guide
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you and put things essentially into your head that may
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: or may not have even have happened. They could essentially
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: be leading him. I mean that's a common thing with hypnotherapist,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Like I forget what they call it, but it's called
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: like it's like essentially leading the person whenever they're in
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: like a vulnerable state, and you know, whenever they're relaxed,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: they can like essentially put things into their head that
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: aren't even there and like make them.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Believe it false memories, right, false memories. Yeah, So you
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: see this kind of thing happening in real life. Start
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: answer and this repretitive stuff. I've pointed it out that's
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: in this book. Catturing the rye. This is another just
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: to kind of continue reading. A crucial piece evidence can
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: sir hand to prove premeditation was a prey page from
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: various notebooks found in his bedroom, in which he had
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: written these jumbled words, My determination to eliminate RFK is
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: becoming more and more of an unsack shakable obsession. RFK
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: must die, RFK must be killed forever. F Kennedy must
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: be assassinated. Where Fred had it over and over again,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: it's still current. His son is now the head of
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: the what is it HHS or whatever RFK JR. So
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: the past is present, and then he goes on to
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: say at one point doctor Diamond showed him a photocopy
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: of one of the bizarre entries and question him about
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: it while he was still in a hypnotic trance. Is
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: this crazy writing, Diamond asked, yes, yes, yes, sir, Hand wrote,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: are you crazy? No? No, well why are you writing crazy? Practice? Practice?
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Practice practice for what? Mind control? Mind control? Mind control?
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Was the written W and so this is kind of
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: like what I was saying about this thing where he says,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: I will, I will, I will. You see that I
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: have to go back through the book and point out
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: all the places where these repetitive phrases are. But they're
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: throughout Catcher and the Rye. And it's not an accident,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: it's not an accent m. This is another one. The
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: second popular misconception about Mark relates to J. G. Salander's
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: famous novel The Catcher in the Rye. This is again
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Fenton Bresla the theory that he had always identified himself
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: with Holden Callfield, the book's phony, hating sixteen year old hero,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: not really hero, ever since he first read Catcher at
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: the same age. After all, this is the book that
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: amazed New York policemen found him reading quietly outside the
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Dakota when he had thrown down his gun immediately after
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: killing Lennon with the inscription inside the cover written by
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Mark to hold In Callfield from Holden Callfield, this is
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: my statement. So he had become holding call Field in
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: his mind. In his prison slid waiting trial, he maintained
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: the reason I killed John Lennon was again prominence to
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: promote the reading of J. D. Salinger's The Catcher and
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: the Rye. I'm not saying I'm a a sire or
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: anything like that. If you read the book, and if
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: you understand my past, you will you will see that
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I am indeed the Catcher in the Rye of this generation.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: So it's essentially fiction, like right, duplicating like reality, like
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: mimking reality, or they're trying to make reality mimic fiction
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: very good.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: And it's the same thing that happens with Hinckley too.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: It's really incredible. I'll show you some video that I think,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I don't think is copyrighted problem, but I know that
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: you're concerned about YouTube. But we'll show it later of
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: this guy Bremer, and then I'll show me I can't
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: I don't think I can show the stuff from taxi driver.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: But it's like like you just said, just like you said,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: fiction becoming reality, and.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: That's happened several times with the Cubic. I'm pretty sure
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I mentioned it on your show a couple of months ago.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Two with a clockwork orange, That's what was happening in
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the UK. People were going on and duplicating the things
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that were going on with a clockwork orange, and then
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: with Lolita, the same thing was happening to Sue Lyon
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: by James b Harris, which was Kubrick's producer, was doing
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the exact same thing to her as to what Lolita
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: was essentially about, which was pedophilia. When she was fourteen
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: years old, she was being abused by Kubrick's producer, James
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: b Harris. It's like then it just keeps going on
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: and on, like.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: The show are the themes in here? So Sallenger's real
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: life apes the fake stuff here which goes to you know,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: uh taxi driver and all this crazy stuff. This is
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: like another interesting thing about the catching the right. He
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: takes it on. Really leading up to the assassination of Lennon,
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: he didn't have it around. It was clearly a difficult
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: time for him. Now an ominous new factor came into
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: his life. He became interested in the catching the right.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: We do not know why. We do not know if
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: anyone suggested it to him, and if so, who catchures
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: a book that most people read once in their lifetime
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: and their teens, and that is it? Why on earth,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: seemingly out of the blue, did Mark suddenly get so
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: involved in a book that, like most of his generation
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: of young Americans had already read, He had already read
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: before at school nearly ten years ago.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I think that that's pretty accurate. I don't think that
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: people really read it more than one because it's an
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: abysmal book. It's like not a good book. It's not
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: really a good read. So when it was required reading,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: several people in the chad to and every time I
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: do a show like this, we'll talk about Catcher in
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the Rye, they comment, They're like, when I was growing
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: up in school, like this was required reading. When it's
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: a required reading, you tend to only read it like
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: one time, and then it kind of gets stuck in
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: your subconscious mind. I think that's what's also going on
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: with the music industry, that's what's going on with film
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: and TV. It's like this thing that's like just stuck
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: in the back of your head and then it manifests
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: in your real life when you don't really even know it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen similarities to that with like some
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: forty one, like the band some forty one, and like
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: the song fat Lip, Like I used to love that song,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and then the things that are being talked about in
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: that in that song it kind of essentially played out
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: in my life. It is so weird. But I think
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: that that's something similar to like this book. It's like
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: a subconscious thing, and I mean it has to be.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I think you're right. I think you're right. He says
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: this right here. If Catcher, with its explosive effect on Mark,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: was indeed the trigger for his program mind serving to
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: put him on alert in case of call, it all
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: does seem to come together with remarkable neatness. It's a lot.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, they talk about him being controlled passage towards
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: the end, and this is the whole thing about cash
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: on the right. But this is interesting. This is the
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: thing that I think at Weill was talking about the
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: fu you know. But this is the sequence where you
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: see the word catch associated with ultra violence, and so
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like the darker take on catch. So
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: I'll read this here Holden visiting his beloved young sister
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Phoebe school in an a board of attempt to talk
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: to her. Seize the words fu written on a wall quote,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: it drove me damn near crazy. He's always madman and crazy.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: By the way, it drove me damn near crazy. I
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: thought ol Phoebe and all the other little kids would
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: see it, and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant,
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and then finally some dirty kid would tell them. I
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: kept wanting to kill who'd ever written it. I figure
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: it was some perverty bomb that sneaked into the high
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: school late at night and then wrote it on the wall.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I kept picturing myself catching him, right, so the catch
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: kind of phrase, same word, right. I pictured myself catching
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: him at it, and how I'd smash his head on
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: the stone steps till he was good in goddamn dead
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: and bloody. But I knew too, I wouldn't have the
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: guts to do it. That made me even more repressed.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: So like he's like depressed, excuse me, but he is repressed.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: He's kind of a repressed violent person or repressed sex maniac.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: So like he's like, oh, he has this pent up
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: anger inside him that he doesn't express. Does that makes sense?
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, classic in solid behavior and like what have we seen.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: We've seen like this is jumping in saw behavior since
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: the early two thousands, and that would hit around a
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: couple of generations later, right like after the book was released.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: There would be a couple of generations after that where
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: we start seeing this influx of insult types of people,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: especially when it's related to uh, you know, school shootings.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: It's right, and no, it's really this is the theme.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: It's really crazy you talk of There was that one
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: guy who shot up Santa Barbara. You see Santa Barbara,
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: remember him? He was an in cell and like he went,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: he just had all this pent up ridge and then
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: it's he snapped. One day, Mark was clearly going through torment.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: He told his perplexed wife that he was thinking of
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: changing his name to Olden Callfield. On tenth of September,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: he actually wrote to a school teacher friend named Linda Irish,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: who had moved from Honolulu to Mexico. Quote, I'm going
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: nuts unquote. He drew a picture of Diamond Head Mountain
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: with the sun, the moon, the stars above it, and
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: signed the letter the Catcher and the Ride Mark so
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: like he's identifying with Holden Callfield, he's becoming him. And
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: he writes this later like it's just crazy. He wrote
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: the oga, this is the day of the murder. As
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: he walked the twenty blocks up to the Dakota on
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: West seventy second Street, incongrusa midday, lightly dressed New Yorker's
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: with his heavy winter gear, he realized he was missing
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: a prop. He had with him his Double Fantasy album,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: but something was missing. He altered his progress towards Lendon,
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: selected plays of Execution, and dived into a bookshop to
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: merge with a red paperback copy of The Catcher in
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: the Rye. On the title page, he wrote to Holding
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: call Field from Holding call Field and below that this
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: is my statement. So the book was a statement.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that's what he said. He stood up in
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: corners like you want If you want my defense, all
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I gotta do is read read Catcher in the Rye.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: And he's in between, he's seeing people, he's reading the book.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: So something happens. He sits down and starts reading again.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Crazy, you see this duplication of I mean, we see
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: this a lot, and like like through celebrities and like
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: idol worship of actors and people like that. Like they
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: see these people and then like they want to like
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: be them and like imitate them. Like whenever you see
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: like models, like and very attractive women on TV and stuff,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: like women automatically want to like look like them, you
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like this, It's like, yeah,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: thing in all of those people are very unrealistic styles
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: of like beauty, so then it diminishes what they actually
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: are because they want to be somebody else. They want
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: to get fake tits, they want to get lip injections,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: they want to get all this stuff because they're seeing
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: this unrealistic style of beauty and they want to be
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: like it. And that's kind of like what is going
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: on here is that he's trying to duplicate this. I mean,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: the book is obviously one, uh, you know, fiction, but
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: he's trying to duplicate this, this fictionalized character and be him,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I mean Holden Caulfield to Holden Clawfield. He's essentially saying
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: that he is him.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Right, And you'll see that with Hinckley or or it
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: said that in the intro where Hinkley's becoming Travis Pickles.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: So you see that same phenomenon taking place. So he
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: does the supposedly does the killing December eighth, nineteen eighty.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: On February first, he sits down and writes something to
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: the New York Times, and he writes this. He quote
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: is my sincere belief that presenting this written statement will
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: not only stimulate the reading of J. D. Salinger's The
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Catcher and the Rye, but also will help many to
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: understand what has happened. If you are able to view
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: the actual copy of The Catcher in the Ryde that
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: was taken from me on the night of December eighth,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: you would find in it the handwritten words this is
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: my statement. Unfortunately, I was unable to continue the stance,
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: and have since spoken openly with the police, doctors, and
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: others involved in this case. I now fully realized that
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: this should not have been done for remove the emphasis
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: that I wanted to place on the book. My wish
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: is for all of you to someday read The Catcher
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: in the Rye. All of my efforts will now be
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: devoted towards his goal, for this extraordinary book holds many answers.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: My true hope is that, in wanting to find these answers,
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: you will read The Catcher in the Rye. Thank you,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Mark David Chapman.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: The Catcher in the Rye, I mean, he kind of
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: did really soar into popularity.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: So there's something, there's some push to get this book
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: into people's brains. And then in court August nineteen eighty one,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: he walks into court. He carries with him a copy
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: of The Catcher in the Rye. And then in court
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: he like, this is it. He mentions this one section
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: about Phony's and this Phoebe and him being the Catcher
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: in the Rye. It's incredible. So this is from raw
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: Hide down. That was Reagan's secret service code was raw Hide,
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: and this is Hinckley four day trip was a blur
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: of fast food and brief stops Las Vegashai and Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh,
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: Traveling through Utah. He woke from a brief nap to
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: find the bus hurtling through a massive snowstorm. He spent
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: much of the trips louched in a window seat, watching
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: the scenery stream by or reading The Catcher in the Rye. J. D.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Salinger's novel of teenage anks and alienation. He identified with
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: the story's main character, holding Callfield, but the book was
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: also special to him because he knew that John Lennon's
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: assassinat pulled it from his pocket and Leaf threw it
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: moments after gunning down the rock and roll icon. Lennon,
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: who had been killed three and a half months earlier,
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: was Hinkley's favorite musician. Even so, he sometimes felt they
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: identified more with Lennon's killer than with Lennon himself.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Who was driving the because John Hinckley was firing the
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: shots from the backseat of the vehicle, right, who was
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: who was driving the card?
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: You know when Reagan got shot? Yeah, I don't know,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: but he Hinckley was supposedly in the crowd, crowd at
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: another hotel that Reagan was walking out of. I have
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: video of it. I don't know if I probably can
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: show it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the the video in our documentary too.
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Secret Service people were like they all had guns too,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: did they had like AARs like they were they were
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: stock to the freaking barrel, dude. They all had them surrounded.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: They had big giant guns, Like, holy crap, what were
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: you expecting? Were you expecting this to happen? Did you
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: know that this was going to happen?
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean you kind of wanted the President emerged
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: from the Washington Hilton Hotel.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was it. Yeah, So I don't know, but
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: let me see what are my other slides. I think
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I got just a few more things. It goes, I
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: go into kind of bremmer, I know, or on the
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: time crutch where we had sixty minutes.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Now, yeah, we're good. We're good until until you're finished
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: with the presentation.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, guess who's favorite one of his favorite books? This
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: is George George Bush, George Robert Walker Bush. Or was
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: there a book that inspired you? There was a marvelous
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: book by Salinger called Catcher in the Rye. So who
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: would have benefited if if Reagan died? It would be
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: in Bush?
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: Guess who else likes Catcher in the Ryot promotes it
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: this school?
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Bill Gate? Is that Gate? Yeah?
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: Bill Gates? This is by Bill Gates. This is an
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: article by Bill Gates from twenty thirteen. You may notice
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: there aren't any novels on my list this year. It's
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: not that I don't enjoy fiction. I've read The Catcher
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: in the Rye a bunch of times. It's one one
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: of my favorite books ever.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, crazy genocidal mediacy.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: Genocile ruth and then this crooks guy, these strange people.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: The Good Girl was a movie that had a lot
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: of themes from Catching the Rye. This is Leedo as
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: Chapman in chapter twenty seven. I could play some video
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: for that, but I want you to strike, which is.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So wild because Leedo owns Lookout Mountain Hotel in Laurel Canyon.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: He bought that military base up there. I had no
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: idea that he had played Chapman in a movie until
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I was researching all this stuff for the documentary, but
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: we didn't talk about it because everything was like already filmed.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: It was a holy crab. That's a crazy wild connection there.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: And he quotes from the book he's at the Dakota,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: so he's in there in twenty seven. But also he
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: has this kind of little almost like a temple thing
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: in his hotel where he pulls out the Wizard of
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Box stuff, which is also kind of a non programming
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: god too, So like Chapman to me, has definitely been
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: tampered with. These are just word names of the old name,
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: like the call. Various traditions have vied it as a
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: sign of spiritual or psychic ability. Some folklore, the call
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: was believed to bestow second sight on the ability to
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: see in the future. And so this guy Ruth I
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: think he's still still under arrest. The NYPD claims to
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: have found the CEO Shooter's backpack near the carousel in
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Central Park, exactly where the Catcher in the Rye ends.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: So this guy maned GIONI who we're going to get into.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about a Luigi theres some really.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting there. He's in this. We're going to
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: get in there. But here's the thing. Travis Bicklein TAXTI
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: driver Arthur Bremer. Bremer attempted to assassinate Alabama Governor George
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Wallace in nineteen seventy two. His diary, which continue it,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: deals his descent into isolation and his assassination attempt, influenced
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: the character development of Bickel. Where what movie did Bremer
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: watched like two weeks before and emulate two weeks before
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: he attempted to kill George Wallcher? You want to take
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: a kiss, taxa dream, a clockwork.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Orange, a clock recornge Oh my god, oh my god.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't make this stuff up.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a reference to like the CIA. So I'm
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: trying to trace how this book, how the genesis of
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: this book because it's sixty five million books sold cultural
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Cold War. They kind of mentioned like supporting new authors
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: the CIA does through cutouts. There's this encounter magazine says,
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: or you're urging spender to open the literary pages to
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: a new generation of American writers like Saul Bell of J. D. Salader, Truman, Capodi,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: Sureley Angrow. This is Bremer right here, right, So this
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: is the guy who tried to kill Wallace in seventy
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: four that Travis Pickle was partly based on real life
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: assassin assassin Arthur Bremer. Do you see this picture? This
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: is the same gesture that this is before, but the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: same gesture that Chapman and inkleyar making. Yeah, that's Bremer
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: right there. That's Wallace shot. This is his May fourth,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: This is before the shooting. Milwaukee saw clockwork orange and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: thought about getting Wallace all through the picture, fantasizing myself
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: as the Alex or Alec, but without my brother, just
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: a little of the old ultra violence. I've decided Wallace
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: would have the honor of what would you call it.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: So these guys are identifying with these fictional characters, whether
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: it's Bickell, Alex or Holden Callfield incredible wild. I did
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: not know this, Yeah, Barn Bremer's Dyer was a primary
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: inspiration for screenwriter Paul Schrader's character Travis Bickle, played by
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: Robert de Niro. It gets even darker because the E.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: Howard Hunts involved in this. They're trying to go into
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Bremer's thing and place a campaign literature for the Democratic Party.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: That's according to Seymour Erge, who's you know, one of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: the greatest American journalists, my lie and all this other stuff.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: In his memoir, E. Howard Hunt reports the day after
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: the assassination attempt, he received a call from Chuck Coulson
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: asking him to break into Bremmer's apartment and plan leftist
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: literature to connect him to the Democrats. Hunter recalls that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: he was highly skeptical of the plan to the apartment
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: being guarded by the FBI, which is bologny the fbn
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: CIA like usually pretty tight, but investigated the feasibility of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: it anyway at Coulson's insistence. G Gordon Liddy also discusses
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: the plan in his memoir. So let me see if
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: I can play this. This is pretty incredible of Arthur
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Bremer killing shooting Wallace. Let's see. But it's creepy because
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: it you can see that taxi drivers literally ripping off
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: the documented suice, I mean, assassination of Wallace. There's no
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: question about it. They had to have seen it and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: integrated it into the film. So when you're watching that film,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: you're watching this. Can you play that? That's Bremer right there,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: he's watching, he's clapping, he's happy watch this. He's in
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: the crowd, he's got all this regalia on right. It's crazy.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Here's another one. Let me see if I can find this.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: That's not it?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: When when did this happen? When did this one go down?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Seventy two? I think it was seventy two. But listen
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: to this. Listen to his family, his family. Let's see
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: if I can make this. His family, he's like mystified.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: His dad's like, how did this happen? We don't even know.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: This is totally a character. Can you plead this?
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Arthur Bremer shot Alabama Governor George Wallace on May fifteenth,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two, while Wallace was holding a presidential campaign
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: rally in Laurel, Maryland. Police immediately arrested Bremmer, and after
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: they learned his identity, secret service and FBI agent searched
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Bremer's Milwaukee apartment. Inside they found a Confederate flag and
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: thirty eight caliber bullets like the ones used to shoot Wallace.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Bremer's father and his brother couldn't believe it.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: There's no explanation for if it was him, his behavior
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: and what it happened was no experience. We can give
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: it all.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Isn't that so interesting? Like that's sort of like what everyone,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: like everyone's family members said when some event like this
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: always happened. He was such like the neighbors always come
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: on the neighbors. He was such a good guy.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: He was always outful.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: He always help you, bring me in my groceries. I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: couldn't see him doing anything like this, Like and then
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: it's the same thing with this. We don't have any explanations.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: This is very odd behavior. Isn't that it strange? Doesn't
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: that what does that mean? Like right right?
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Neighbors said Bremer was odd. He never had many friends
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: with him. He was always like a loaner. The twenty
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: one year old loaner from Milwaukee was convicted and sentenced
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: to prison. Now with a long, scraggly beard and a
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: receding hairline, Bremer appears to have aged a lot in
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: the last ten years. His warden describes Bremmer as a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: model prisoner who doesn't have many friends.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: I can't say categorically that he does not have any
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: friends or associates in here, but he's not the type
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: of inmate that walks in a group in the yard
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: or with a group of people in the rec calls uh.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: He's basically a loner.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: The Maryland Parole Commission recently refused to move up the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: date when Bremer will first be eligible for parole. Meanwhile,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: George Wallace is running for governor of Alabama again. We
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: went to a campaign rally in tiny Aniana, Alabama, and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: asked Wallace how he feels about Arthur Bremer.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: I have been given him for shooting me, and I
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: hope that he's asked forgiveness if I haven't shot me.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: So that's that. Let's see, maybe we can go back
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: and just finish these slides with just a few more.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: So there's like sketchy things happening around Burmer. This brings
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: us to Mangione, right, who's become kind of like a
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: culture figure, like people that denied, depose and defend or
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: whatever phrases being bandied around. But he had a purp walk,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: much like his hero Kachinsky, right, or Kazinski, Theodor Kazinski.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: He likes Theodor Kazinski and read his book and literally
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: wrote a review of it Industrial Society in his future
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: on his like thing, right, So he likes KAZINSI this
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: is from twenty twenty four. I think this is fairly
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: recent January twenty twenty four. I'm not going to read
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: the whole thing, but he basically says, these actions tend
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: to be characterized as those of a crazy ludite, but however,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: political revolutionary. He had the balls to recognize that peaceful
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: protests has gotten us absolutely no worre. So you see
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: this kind of radicalization a Manngione, real personality change. His
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: parents said, like sent out like an APB or whatever,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: like a missing person's report. They didn't know where he was.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: He was in a Why at least we know that
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: he was in a He had a pretty serious back
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: operation he was not a United Healthcare customer. Nobody knows
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: why he selected this guy as a target. Maybe he
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: was because he was a fraudster or whatever. But this
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: is his kind of one page manifesto. Mangione born into
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: a wealthy family, attends forty k a year private school,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: becomes valedictorian, earns a bachelor's and masters and computer science
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: by twenty six No criminal record, no behavioral red flags,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: clean slate, sharp dress, photogenic, chad, addictive, active on social media,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: vacations abroad, post polished photos, look like he's thriving, Lands
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: internships and builds a resume that scream success. Spends free
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: time exploring AI, mushrooms and self optimization trends, writes a
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: good Reads viewview on ted K sprinkles in safe edgy,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: joins the professional world, follows the system script, no signs
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: of instability, just another rising star in the tech scene.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: Disappears from friends for three months. Twenty twenty four, kills
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: United health Care CEO.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Psychedelic mushrooms. Did that say? Yeah, there you go?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: What's the connection? What's Kasinski? Who was the guy who
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: kind of ran Kazinski? This guy Murray, another OSS guy
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: who was win World War Two. This is the guy
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: who ran Kazinski into like possibly being crazy. So that's
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: so it's a direct tie from MANGEONI his admiration of
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: Kazinsky and this kind of mk ultra doctor Murray. That's
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: Henry Murray, and he admits all this stuff. Like nineteen
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: thirty eight, Murray was recruited by the US government to
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: create a psychological profile of Adolf Hiller. So it's called
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: a book called The Mind of Adolf Hiller. He left
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Harvard temporari rarely to serve in the US Army, much
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: like Sallenger during the Second World War, working with American
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: intelligence agencies to help possess the psychological fitness of their agents.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: But probably something else. So this is the exc this
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: is what he did. This is what Murray did to
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: It was a three year program of breaking down Kazinski
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: the Spearmith designed it's called Multiform Assessments of Personality Development.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Who was deceptively framed to participants as of anigh exploration
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: of beliefs. Kazinsky a brilliant but socially awkward sophomore when
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: I think he was sixteen, like super young, joined in
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: nineteen fifty nine, was one of the subjects. Participants were
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: asked to write essays detailing their personal philosophies and values.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: These essays were then used against them in a series
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: of grueling interrogations and these sessions, subjects faced a hostile
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: interlocutor who mocked and dismantled their beliefs, often with the
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: aid of the essays they'd written. The encounters were filmed,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: and participants were later forced to watch their own humiliation.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: Electrodes monitored physiological responses heart rate, sweat, adding a clinical
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: later layer to the psychological assault. Murray's goal was to
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: observe how young men, presumably still forming their identities. This
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: is like Holden Callfielder right, coped with extreme stress and confrontation.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: For Kazinski, assigned the code name Lawful, the experience was
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: particularly intense. Over three years, he endured roughly two hundred
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: hours of these sessions. Murray himself described the interrogations as
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: vement and personally abusive to start contrast to the ethical
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: norms emerging in psychological research at the time.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: So it was a bit he was running these experiments
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: on Kazinski.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and people, there was somebody there's a guy who
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: wrote this is a book about it. It was kind
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: of Harvard in the Unibarber. He was trying to tie
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: Murray directly to mk Ult. He couldn't do it, but
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: I think he wrote that this is all these experiments
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: were like in that era and reflected the kind of
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: mk Ult environment.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: So you had Sir hansur Hand being surrounded by all
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: of these hypnotherapists. You got Kazinsky having psychological experiments run
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: on him.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: For three years, two hundred hours. Harvard and the UNI Barber.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: This is the book Austin Chase cover. And this is
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: kind of Luigi has become kind of a certain people
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: really like him. He's like all over New York City.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a he's on the side of buildings
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: and stuff. It's really crazy. And then if you go back,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: if we like I don't know if we could pull
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: up maps, but basically the shooting of this healthcare CEO
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: took place off of Central Park, so he was in
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: Hawai like Chapman. He ends up in Central Park like
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: he rode his bike into Central Park is what it
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: was after he shot the guy, and that's where all
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: the the ending of catching the right took place and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: that's where the that's where the Dakota Hotel is literally closed.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: I mean it's literally a five minute bike ride to
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: all these sites. Were holding call field in the chap
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: and once that's my presentation.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a lot to take in. That's a lot
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: to take in. The Clockwork Orange. Dude watching a clockwork
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: That's that's wild because I just mentioned that Clockwork Orange
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: was being basically censored in the UK and other countries
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: because of that exact thing. I didn't know that was
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: happening in the US as well.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: Right, right, the when did the Clockwork Orange? When was
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: it released?
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy I believe, gotcha, so.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: At the right time. So you see this mind control
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: theme going through these films in this book, and then
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: literal real world events being influenced by so called I
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: mean it may be a better term as quasi fiction
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: or pseudo fiction, because there's real things in these films
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're taking the essentrally like magic. It's almost
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: like a cult magic. They're putting something out into the
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: consciousness of people and then they set back, and then
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: somebody comes along and like duplicates it in real life
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: and then it plays out like that, it's so I
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: don't even.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: Know what and then such some phenomenon with these killers
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: where they become these fictional characters. So Bremmer fictionalizes his
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: view of Alec where Alex Delarge and then it's Travis
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Pickele and Holden call.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Film and then also J. D. Solinger being locked up
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: in the psych ward and then probably getting the inspiration
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: to write the book while he's in the psych word,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: like that's.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: I have more research to do. So I think I've
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: just kind of opened up the Pandora's box or Pandora's book,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: so to speak. Because just the fact that this book
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: is so influential and so all over the place and
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: so many people have been exposed to it, it's like extraordinary.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: Like why are these creeps promoting this book like Bush
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: and Gates like two elite kind of offspring, you know,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: like Gates his dad is a full eugenicist, you know.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: So it's like, what's going on? Why are they making
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: sure that it's in the public mind. Why does Chapman
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: feel the compulsion to promote the book? Everybody should read
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: this book?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Why is the school system want everybody read this book.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: It's a dark book, like as an adult, like in
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: my knowledge of kind of stuff I've learned from you
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: and other people in the mind control hands Outer and
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: all these other characters, it's like, this is the stuff
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: that like hands exposed to like before like the murders
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: took place. So it's like, imagine a whole culture just
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: being like exposed to this kind of these kind of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: this kind of mind control narrative. It's off the charge
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: to a guy who's in it literally in a mental institution.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: In the narrative, it's crazy.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the subconscious factor in the subconscious larying is it's
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty spot on with that because that's
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: what Stanley Kubrick would do too. It's like to affect
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: the subconscious mind of the viewer. And I believe that's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: why all the continuity errors and all the is tricking
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: the viewer's mind to make them think that something is
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: not right, Like how you're you would slowly be going
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: into like a psychotic psychosis state subconsciously as you're watching
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: the movie, just as Jack is going in into his
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: delusions and into his psychotic state, right good point. It's
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: another thing of like like fiction mimicking reality?
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: Is Jack Torrens like how much I cold in call Field?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: Is he right? Like going slowly going and saying not
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: capable of self analysis, seeing himself go insane? You know
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: all that stuff.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: And Jack wears that red blazer holding Callfield has the
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: red hat. Yeah, wow, I don't know. I'm gonna definitely
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: have to look into this more. Thanks for coming on
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: bro showing that presentation was really really fascinating. Where can
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: people find you online if they would like to look
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: into more of your stuff, into your work and your
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: podcasting and watch your documentaries or read your books.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all my stuff streams onto x now and or
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: Twitter and rock Finn and Rumble hopefully. And then my
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: documentaries are my Patreon, William Ramsay and Beetscints. I got
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: five there, so if you pay five books, you can
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: watch them all for free five bucks a month, then
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: five books on Amazon. And you know my podcast you
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: can any podcast player, Spotify, iTunes. And I covered this
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: show and I did a show on this kind of subject.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: I didn't know as much as I know now, but
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: I did this show with Walter Boseley on this kind
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: of subject, So people can watch.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: That too, awesome. Thanks so much. Love to have you
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: back on anytime. Everybody else, thanks for everyone in the job.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: Really appreciate you guys. Please be sure to hit the
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: thumbs up button to help the channel on the algorithm
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: share a subscribe. Hit the bell icon as well for notifications,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: and all the links to William's information is in the
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: description of this video, and also all of my links
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: are in the description of this video. To watch a
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: Clockwork Shining on Amazon Prime or on Vimeo and we
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: will see you guys next time. Have a good week everyone,