Latest / The Parenting Podcast / "Will I Ever Sleep Again?" (Pt. 1) | Ep. 21

Transcript

"Will I Ever Sleep Again?" (Pt. 1) | Ep. 21 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:03
  Cheryl: Hi moms, the TPP recording team is here, but we are not in our studio as we always have been before.
• 1:10
  Cheryl: Instead we're trying some new technology to do remote recording.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: So bear with us.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: This is new technology and with new technology always comes glitches and we're hoping to get those ironed out.
• 1:22
  Cheryl: So bear with us.
• 1:23
  Cheryl: So how are you all today?
• 1:25
  Cheryl: It's good to actually see you on our zoom call.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 1:29
  Christie: No, I love this steam life.
• 1:32
  Christie: I've got my own tea and my own comfy And my
• 1:35
  Cheryl: dogs are having a good
• 1:35
  Ellen: time.
• 1:36
  Ellen: If you could hear them in the background, they're our alarm system.
• 1:40
  Ellen: They sit on the sofa and look out the front window and anybody that even dares to walk by our house, you know, they alert.
• 1:48
  Ellen: So it's really, and
• 1:49
  Danae: of course we didn't hear them until we know exactly.
• 1:53
  Ellen: So if I get up and leave for a minute, I'm shutting the front
• 1:57
  Cheryl: window so they can't look out.
• 2:01
  Cheryl: Oh, fun.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: Well, we, um, you know, get questions all the time from moms.
• 2:07
  Cheryl: And I got a good question and here's how I want to kick it off is just share that question.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: And the mom, just for.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Well, I ever sleep again.
• 2:21
  Cheryl: I thought Let's talk about sleep because it is a big issue, um, for every age and for the mom to all the ages we remember.
• 2:31
  Cheryl: Um, so how about if we start, let's let let's start with the little ones.
• 2:36
  Cheryl: What were your experiences with your newborns and little, was it textbook or what?
• 2:43
  Cheryl: Well, I know
• 2:43
  Ellen: when I had my first child in the seventies, I, um, I just assumed that, I mean, I was 21.
• 2:53
  Ellen: I didn't know anything about children.
• 2:55
  Ellen: I never even really babysat.
• 2:57
  Ellen: So I just assume you put them in a bed and they go to sleep, but I quickly found out it didn't work
• 3:02
  Cheryl: like that.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: That's exactly.
• 3:04
  Cheryl: Me.
• 3:05
  Cheryl: I had a little sisters, but I never noticed the sleeping.
• 3:08
  Cheryl: I saw the same thing.
• 3:10
  Cheryl: I thought they did what we did when you're sleeping, you go to sleep and then you wake up.
• 3:14
  Cheryl: I thought it was automatic winning the diaper.
• 3:18
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Ellen: Um, I found out very quickly that it wasn't, and it was really, really stressful because my son had colic, which also, I didn't know anything about now.
• 3:29
  Ellen: I think they have more things I can do for it.
• 3:31
  Ellen: But back then, there really wasn't anything.
• 3:33
  Ellen: And so I had a crying, unhappy baby.
• 3:36
  Ellen: Every time I laid him down, he just got really, you know, upset and I wound up buying, you know, a little snugly.
• 3:43
  Ellen: Those were like when they first started coming in, this lady handmade them.
• 3:47
  Ellen: And I mean, he lived on me probably the first two months of life.
• 3:52
  Ellen: Uh, just, just to get him to go to sleep by putting him in his bed, just never, ever worked.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Um, let's call it.
• 3:59
  Cheryl: I mean, we used to say it is that acid.
• 4:02
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Ellen: It's a form of acid reflux.
• 4:04
  Ellen: And so, you know, I'm breastfeeding and then he throwing it up and, you know, it was just, was really, you know, it was a really hard time.
• 4:12
  Ellen: And a lot of times I was alone, my husband was in the military.
• 4:15
  Ellen: He was out in the field.
• 4:16
  Ellen: So I would have day after day after day of a crying baby.
• 4:21
  Ellen: And I could just remember feeling so bad.
• 4:23
  Ellen: I put him down in his crib and this isn't the kind of the newborn stage.
• 4:26
  Ellen: It was early months and I'm just taking a shower.
• 4:30
  Ellen: So I didn't have to listen to him cry because it was, so it was parents around, you were from California and we were stationed in South Dakota and most of my friends were either working or had their own little.
• 4:43
  Ellen: So I did belong to a group called the Le lay Chile, which was a breastfeeding group.
• 4:49
  Ellen: And that was really helpful because the moms helped me.
• 4:51
  Ellen: But still it was, that was probably one of the hardest periods in my life when I couldn't, I didn't feel like I could help my baby sleep.
• 5:00
  Cheryl: So I think what we're saying here is that mom's question not, will he ever sleep or ever sleep because the truth is wait, his moms lose all the sleep, sleep problems are our sleep problems.
• 5:17
  Cheryl: I don't want to stay as we do with everything with TPP, we're not going to try and find the solution or the way it should be done because wow.
• 5:27
  Cheryl: The gamut runs from very, very structured schedule.
• 5:32
  Cheryl: Well for a family and their choice all the way to the family bad.
• 5:37
  Cheryl: And co-sleeping.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: And so
• 5:42
  Danae: at the beginning,
• 5:43
  Christie: sometimes your baby gets to choose your approach because to call the shot, I had a baby like your first baby Ellen, but it was my third.
• 5:53
  Christie: And my first two were textbook.
• 5:57
  Christie: I mean, they just slept a few hours eight during the day, every three to four hours.
• 6:01
  Christie: And then at night, by six to eight weeks, they were sleeping 12 hours.
• 6:05
  Christie: And I I've, I've got this figured out.
• 6:08
  Christie: I know I had a friend who had her first baby when I had my second baby.
• 6:15
  Christie: And so I think I know what I'm doing.
• 6:18
  Christie: And so I keep telling her, well, you just need to do this and you just need to do that.
• 6:21
  Christie: And her child would not sleep.
• 6:23
  Christie: I think she was still.
• 6:24
  Christie: I think she may have been two or three before she slept through the night.
• 6:27
  Christie: And then I get my third baby and man was I humbled.
• 6:31
  Christie: I had to go back to that friend and apologize and say nothing to do with me.
• 6:35
  Christie: Those two just naturally.
• 6:37
  Christie: And all of a sudden I'm into attachment parenting because this child will not let me put her down.
• 6:43
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:43
  Danae: I remember being really confused.
• 6:45
  Danae: I thought if I read the right books and got all of the right information, then I would, you know, know how to do it.
• 6:52
  Danae: Right.
• 6:53
  Danae: You know, we talk about that a lot when we get together about that, that Mirage of the perfect mom.
• 6:59
  Danae: And if I just knew enough, you know, then I would do it.
• 7:02
  Danae: All right.
• 7:02
  Danae: And so I was reading Ellen, you brought up allegedly league.
• 7:05
  Danae: So I was reading that book on one end of the spectrum, which say.
• 7:08
  Danae: You know, my interpretation was basically never put your child down and then, you know, to the other extreme of reading some information about, you know, being very strictly scheduled and never rocking your children to sleep and those types of things.
• 7:22
  Danae: And so I'm so glad.
• 7:24
  Danae: I think I am glad that I had those resources and seeing there is not a right answer here, you know?
• 7:32
  Danae: So like, like with you Christie, I mean, I had one of my babies had colic and so that was, you know, standing up and dancing while, you know, rocking and kind of moving with her for her to finally fall asleep.
• 7:45
  Danae: And then, um, by my fifth one, you know, she, because we were, I was on the go more.
• 7:51
  Danae: Yeah.
• 7:51
  Danae: I just strapped her in on one of those snugly Lees, and she just got swayed, you know, to sleep like that.
• 7:57
  Danae: And then others.
• 8:00
  Danae: Put down in there and sweet little crib and, and they'd be out.
• 8:02
  Danae: So every child was different.
• 8:04
  Danae: So I definitely relate to that Christie.
• 8:06
  Danae: And I think just helping me,
• 8:08
  Christie: you know, you, you, you weren't doing anything wrong, but when you're in the moment, it feels like doing wrong.
• 8:17
  Ellen: We don't talk about his new moms, whether it's your first baby or your 20th baby need rest.
• 8:25
  Ellen: And sometimes we don't want to stop and rest.
• 8:27
  Ellen: We want to keep our lives going.
• 8:29
  Ellen: And I found with sleep issues that made me rest.
• 8:34
  Ellen: Because if I had a baby and a care, a front carrier, then they needed to go to sleep.
• 8:39
  Ellen: I'd walk around a little bit, but then I would just go sit in a chair or relax myself and put my feet up and take a nap and doze off because I think most new moms aren't getting enough sleep.
• 8:50
  Ellen: Um, because if they don't have a baby, that's on a good schedule, which I I'm agreeing with most of you guys that it's hard to make newborns on a schedule because it's really up to them and they don't read the book before they're born.
• 9:05
  Cheryl: Oh no, I'm in a different place because the LeChee league input was about all I had and I didn't know.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: And so trying to figure this out, I thought it was selfish of me to make her cry.
• 9:19
  Cheryl: So Rebecca train me really, really well.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: I'm trying to get some sort of a, a schedule or not scheduled her, but just not be at her Beck and cry, you know?
• 9:33
  Cheryl: And it was crazy.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: And I would talk to bill about it and I go, should I, should I put her down at night at seven 30 or eight?
• 9:41
  Cheryl (2): O'clock eight, 15, what is the best?
• 9:43
  Cheryl (2): What, again, what's the right, right thing.
• 9:46
  Cheryl (2): And it says, sweetheart, it doesn't matter.
• 9:48
  Cheryl (2): Just choose but she just so trained, but what is your first one?
• 9:53
  Cheryl (2): And I got to stay home.
• 9:55
  Cheryl (2): I could sleep when she slept.
• 9:57
  Cheryl (2): So I didn't see it as that bad.
• 9:59
  Cheryl (2): I thought, well, maybe this is just what it's like.
• 10:01
  Cheryl (2): And Alex being my second born saved both of us because you simply don't have that luxury when you have multiple children.
• 10:10
  Cheryl (2): And so I realized I had to do something different.
• 10:13
  Cheryl (2): I couldn't keep doing the same thing.
• 10:15
  Cheryl (2): And so then I started doing what you're kind of suggesting.
• 10:20
  Cheryl (2): I started watching and listening to what he needed and his natural rhythms.
• 10:25
  Cheryl (2): And then I shaped him the way I want it to be.
• 10:28
  Cheryl (2): And that really helped me.
• 10:30
  Ellen: But I personally found with my personality, um, because I'm a discipline person, but I'm not really rigidly scheduled it.
• 10:40
  Ellen: It was easier for me to just have my children live in the, in the snugly.
• 10:46
  Ellen: So they probably spent the first three months in there snugly.
• 10:50
  Ellen: That's how they slept.
• 10:51
  Ellen: And that was comfortable for me now.
• 10:53
  Ellen: Other moms that might not be comfortable for, but I mean, everywhere I went, they were.
• 10:58
  Ellen: Contentedly sleeping on me in the backpack.
• 11:02
  Ellen: Now it did ruin my neck.
• 11:03
  Ellen: I did have to get neck surgery
• 11:08
  Cheryl: that
• 11:08
  Ellen: suited my personality.
• 11:10
  Ellen: And especially in those early months, that made me more pieces of mom, whether it was my first one or my fifth one, I was more comfortable with my baby's on me.
• 11:20
  Ellen: And so I just kind of did that.
• 11:24
  Ellen: And then eventually I was able to get them into, they all want to being good sleepers, but I always let them sleep on me, but that isn't for everyone.
• 11:32
  Christie: Cheryl used shaped because it is kind of a shaping, as you know, they're growing older, moving into this toddler.
• 11:40
  Christie: At some point you do have to start teaching them some boundaries, but I was kind of like you Ellen, where with my younger ones.
• 11:48
  Christie: Where I would just kind of let them be on me, but I wanted some structure.
• 11:53
  Christie: And so the word used, shaped really stood out to me because I would push them a little bit, you know, I knew what they needed.
• 11:59
  Christie: I knew what I needed, but then eventually we have to have, in my opinion and my personal style, I wanted some structure.
• 12:06
  Christie: So we were, okay, this is the goal, but they may, some babies might take longer to get there than others.
• 12:11
  Cheryl: So what we're talking about is, is know what a newborn is four to six weeks.
• 12:17
  Cheryl: And so that time period, we're talking about this, whether someone is preparing to return to work or whether they're going to stay home longer or old time, all of that, we all have the same struggles in that six week period of how do we handle it and what do we do?
• 12:36
  Cheryl: And so will I ever sleep again?.
• 12:39
  Cheryl: Well,
• 12:39
  Ellen: it's a really it's.
• 12:40
  Ellen: I think it's a hard time, whether it's your first baby or here, you know, multiples down the way because you're so physically tired, you've just given birth.
• 12:50
  Ellen: Your body's going through a lot of changes and you're trying to have this new baby learn how to live on the outside of this planet, you know, and adjust to the lack of comforts that came in the womb.
• 13:03
  Ellen: And I think that for different babies, that can be a hard thing.
• 13:06
  Ellen: Some babies it's an easy transition for moms.
• 13:09
  Ellen: Again, you're fatigued.
• 13:10
  Ellen: There's just a whole lot of things that happen when you have that newborn that can make it really difficult.
• 13:16
  Ellen: Cause I found it was difficult with my first one
• 13:19
  Cheryl: we were talking about the perfect thing.
• 13:21
  Cheryl: All of us thought we could find that perfect blend and there is.
• 13:27
  Cheryl: It was life.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: And what we going to do also, I would recommend, like you said, like a colic, I don't think they call it that anymore, but if you think their issues outside of normal, ask your pediatrician, or some experienced moms,
• 13:43
  Christie: I think don't be afraid to, to ask for help, you know, whether that be from a spouse or a parent or a good friend or sister, somebody that you can invite in to have insight into your, you know, seeing your baby and saying, maybe you should talk to the doctor about this or give you a nap.
• 14:01
  Danae: You know, my mom, I'm so thankful.
• 14:03
  Danae: My mom, um, spoke into my life with my newborn and, and she's she, I think she was trying to help me not to be a slave, you know, to the newborn of always thinking and always, you know, her always being on me.
• 14:17
  Danae: Was kind of more heartache.
• 14:18
  Danae: And I think I kind of came to the middle and hearing Alan is that to, to go ahead and lay her down to go ahead and lay my children down, you know, for a little while.
• 14:30
  Danae: And then they only needed to eat every three to four hours.
• 14:34
  Danae: And I think that helped me to have her speak into my life over that.
• 14:39
  Danae: You know,
• 14:39
  Cheryl: I think it's so wise to have people speaking in and not putting ourselves in the box of, I have to figure this out all by myself and there's nobody else, or let me find that one perfect solution.
• 14:56
  Cheryl: So when everything with life, with parenting and with a newborn sleep,
• 15:00
  Ellen: even in a very mobile society where people move a lot, lots of people don't live near their family and you know, a mom that can help or, you know, or you have your, your friends and they all have little ones.
• 15:12
  Ellen: So maybe they can have some suggestions or they really, sometimes if you, especially, if you have a colicky baby, you just want somebody to take your baby for a little bit and see if they can get them to go to
• 15:22
  Cheryl: sleep.
• 15:24
  Cheryl: I said, that's like, we're talking about the first six, eight weeks or so.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: What about, um, let's we started talking about toddlers.
• 15:33
  Cheryl: What about after they're a little bit established their toddlers?
• 15:37
  Cheryl: Uh, what did y'all find during that season for you yourselves?
• 15:42
  Danae: Yeah, and I feel like a lot of the, the thoughts, the question is how do I keep my toddler in bed?
• 15:47
  Cheryl: That's what someone wrote.
• 15:49
  Cheryl: Well, it's exactly your words.
• 15:50
  Cheryl: And she said, what do I do about keeping a toddler in bed?
• 15:53
  Cheryl: Because the crib is Paul you, how many times do they have to call out before they're experts at it?
• 16:06
  Cheryl: I remember when Alex was, I don't know, 12, 15 months.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: And we had to stay for a little bit of time at my folks.
• 16:16
  Cheryl: It was transitioning after bill got out of graduate school.
• 16:19
  Cheryl: And so we were in one bedroom together.
• 16:22
  Cheryl: And so I'm right there next to him.
• 16:24
  Cheryl: Cause we're crammed in there in his crib.
• 16:27
  Cheryl: And I remember like at four o'clock in the morning, he woke up, but I kept my highest, like I wasn't open to hoping to disconnect sleep, and he just went through.
• 16:35
  Cheryl: No, you cannot do this.
• 16:37
  Cheryl: And that was it.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: I had to lower the side because I didn't want him falling out of the Korea.
• 16:44
  Cheryl: but because I was living with my folks for a few weeks.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Um, I didn't want all the noise when all of it, so I had to get up with him so quietly and we'd go into a room where it wouldn't make any noise where we could sister.
• 16:58
  Cheryl: So, uh, you know, I'm not a fan of their crawling out of a crib.
• 17:03
  Danae: It reminds me of when they start crawling, you know, you're so excited to see those first little crawls.
• 17:09
  Danae: And then you're like, what was, I think they
• 17:12
  Christie: are mobile now.
• 17:14
  Christie: Usually we just make sure their room was completely safe and
• 17:17
  Cheryl: we would
• 17:18
  Christie: put a baby gate right there at the doorway and that way we could still hear and see, but the room was safe because it is alarming when you go in there and you're like, wait, you weren't, you're not where you're supposed to be, but if it's safe, then they could
• 17:30
  Ellen: the claim over the baby.
• 17:31
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Ellen: I was to say,
• 17:32
  Danae: that's what I had, where that baby, so creative, you know, and all of a sudden.
• 17:38
  Danae: They've gone over.
• 17:39
  Danae: They're going to be a future high jumper,
• 17:41
  Christie: actually like a little bit older when they got out of their crib.
• 17:44
  Christie: We usually had to move one baby out of the crib to put another baby in it right around two years old.
• 17:51
  Christie: But, um, one thing we did and we may have started this closer to three now that I think about it.
• 17:56
  Christie: But, um, we did three passes at night, and so we had these little laminated sheets of paper and we would give our about three-year-olds a little piece of paper and they could get up three times.
• 18:08
  Christie: For a dream.
• 18:10
  Christie: Well, not potty so much.
• 18:11
  Christie: I mean that they kind of knew potty was the one magic answer, the wet bed, but they could get up three times for, I need a hug or what are we doing tomorrow?
• 18:23
  Christie: That kind of thing.
• 18:24
  Christie: And that actually works.
• 18:25
  Christie: I read it in a magazine and I thought that is not going to work.
• 18:28
  Christie: And it actually did work pretty well.
• 18:31
  Christie: Surprise.
• 18:33
  Christie: I've had
• 18:34
  Ellen: the experience where you're sleeping soundly and all of a sudden you feel someone looking at you standing at the side of the bed, staring into your face, maybe slightly poking you.
• 18:45
  Cheryl: No, Allen, my were completely silent.
• 18:50
  Cheryl: I would wake up.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: You're lying.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: Then you wake up and they're right in your face.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: Cause you know, and I just found out from my grandchildren that they were some other friends and.
• 19:03
  Cheryl: They were actually laughing about, they did it to their moms too, because, uh, I will say for moms, when you are asleep, you want to stay asleep
• 19:13
  Ellen: we all have toddlers stories of the things our kids did when we didn't realize they were out of bed.
• 19:19
  Ellen: And, uh, I know I came in one time at a nap time because my, my, the older child's shared the room with the toddler in the crib and I come in and the whole room is a fog of baby powder because my two year old decided the baby in the crib needed some powder.
• 19:39
  Ellen: So there was absolutely, I know people nowadays don't use as much powder as we did in the seventies, but Johnson and Johnson definitely filled, filled our room.
• 19:52
  Ellen: And it was like, I didn't even know what to say.
• 19:54
  Ellen: They were just, it took me probably a day to get all the powder out of their hair.
• 19:59
  Ellen: And they were just having a great time.
• 20:01
  Ellen: And I was like, oh,
• 20:02
  Cheryl: this is wonderful with, and of course it's not how to keep them in bed necessarily, but something.
• 20:09
  Cheryl: And again, it's one of my grandchildren, who's a parent.
• 20:12
  Cheryl: I thought it was one of the best gadgets ever, because what we're talking about with little ones, one of the goals is for them to learn self regulation and self soothing techniques, never knew those words wish I'd understood that.
• 20:27
  Cheryl: I just, like I said, I just thought they learned it, but to help them learn self-soothing self-regulation that it's not moms say, no, you can't get out of bed.
• 20:37
  Cheryl: You can't come out of the room or parents doing that.
• 20:40
  Cheryl: Uh, and it's the one brand they had is a time timer.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: And so it's about a six inch clock face, but it has 60 minutes on it.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: And so you set how much time you want and then it takes off.
• 20:56
  Cheryl: So they use that with their, or, uh, with their little ones or they had certain, I guess maybe it was with, uh, their video camera or something in there where if the light wasn't on, you had to stay in.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Or nap time, they would set the time timer.
• 21:16
  Cheryl: And so you can't get out of bed until this.
• 21:19
  Cheryl: And so what I liked about it, the time timer is the children could watch the sweep of the hand.
• 21:25
  Cheryl: Because if you say you have to stay in bed 30 minutes and 45 minutes or an hour, we're talking
• 21:32
  Ellen: about
• 21:32
  Cheryl: preschoolers now.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: More than toddler, preschool, age, all of that as a transition.
• 21:38
  Cheryl: But I would begin as soon as they're aware, not tiny toddlers to show.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: Set it and you know, you can get up.
• 21:47
  Cheryl: And so they're dealing with it.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: If the child is making an evaluation, but they have a tool to use rather than tell you to get up and more than just a timer or line.
• 21:59
  Cheryl: They can watch and feel the time passing because children don't feel time passing the way an adult does.
• 22:05
  Cheryl: They don't know if it's two minutes or 30 minutes.
• 22:08
  Cheryl: And so I was impressed with that and I love the kind of shifting the responsibility to the children's shoulders so they could begin to know, no, I can't get out of bed.
• 22:19
  Cheryl: I can't leave the room until whatever it is.
• 22:23
  Cheryl: And particularly, even naps, no, this hasn't happened.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: You can't get up from your nap.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: So, yeah,
• 22:29
  Danae: practically, I remember back with toddlers and this may have been even, you know, starting those preschool years is if they got up is to, you know, usually scoop them up, put them back in their beds, quick kiss and no talking or, you know, or married, minimal talking.
• 22:47
  Danae: I love you.
• 22:48
  Danae: Go to bed.
• 22:49
  Danae: And then mom goes back to her room.
• 22:50
  Danae: They get back up, skip them back up, put them in their beds.
• 22:53
  Danae: I love you.
• 22:54
  Danae: Go to bed, see in the morning.
• 22:55
  Danae: And so they're, they're not getting what they think they're wanting other than, uh, you know, a little bit of comfort.
• 23:02
  Danae: If I'm I'm here, they can feel me.
• 23:04
  Danae: I don't want to be, you know, too cold, but is just a repetitive.
• 23:08
  Danae: I remember doing that a lot just to repetitive, put them back in bed, goodnight, kiss, you know, put them back in bed and to where they, you know, something in their brain says.
• 23:17
  Danae: This is not working.
• 23:19
  Danae: Mom is not.
• 23:21
  Ellen: I used to sit at the top of the stairs and one of the houses that we lived in, because my one daughter, we constantly get out of bed and I just took a book and I sat at the top of the stairs and waited for her to come out.
• 23:33
  Ellen: So I can do that routine of taking her back in, putting her back in bed in.
• 23:36
  Ellen: It took a long, long time for her to truly get, you're not allowed out of bed anymore.
• 23:42
  Ellen: It's time to sleep, but that's how I solved it.
• 23:45
  Ellen: I just sat there with a book and read at the top of the stairs.
• 23:47
  Ellen: So I didn't have to keep going up and down because you want to limit your frustration to when you're drying, to teach your child to stay in bed and go to sleep.
• 23:56
  Ellen: Cause, you know, if you've done that, if you've run up the stairs six or seven times, you're mad by this time.
• 24:03
  Ellen: Like,
• 24:04
  Danae: and that is so great.
• 24:05
  Danae: I love that.
• 24:06
  Danae: And I think remembering back and then communicating to our listeners that, you know, this is part of the.
• 24:12
  Danae: Toddlers learn how to get out of their beds, whether it's out of their crib or maybe you've transitioned them to a bigger bed, a little toddler bed.
• 24:20
  Danae: And so they are going to get out, they are going to push these limits.
• 24:24
  Danae: And if we just realize that like, okay, I'm going to need to spend some consistent time teaching them or reminding them that mom's, mom's going to do what she says.
• 24:34
  Danae: And this is the beginning of that.
• 24:36
  Danae: You are going to bed, you weren't getting out, or even with.
• 24:40
  Danae: You know, that was great with the three times.
• 24:42
  Danae: Well, if you consistently let them do it four and five and six times that wasn't going to help you in a
• 24:49
  Christie: Jenae and what Cheryl was talking about self resignation.
• 24:52
  Christie: I never, I don't think I ever thought of sleep, sleep being another time of teaching our kids something, but you're teaching, you're teaching them, you know, how to handle things calmly and patiently and how we respond to them.
• 25:07
  Christie: You're teaching them that self-regulation I, in the moment I never was thinking that I was just, you know, the day ended so I could go to bed too.
• 25:17
  Christie: And I think if I would have realized that it would have helped my frustration
• 25:20
  Cheryl: level, yeah.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: Cause Christie was saying we're teaching our children, all these things Christy you're exactly right.
• 25:27
  Cheryl: And I never thought of it.
• 25:28
  Cheryl: I thought about sleep, that it was about sleep, forgetting the really big picture that this is part of, well, our releasing process that I'm trying to get to know them and trying to teach them boundary.
• 25:44
  Cheryl: I love what you said.
• 25:46
  Cheryl: What a great big picture to put, even when we're talking about our brand newborns, that it's part of the continuum of our job as a mom.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: Of course we need sleep, but.
• 26:01
  Cheryl: That we really are training and raising our children up, loving them because we want them to flourish in their lives.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Right?
• 26:12
  Danae: So there's newborn years are really about the beginning of attachment.
• 26:16
  Danae: We're attaching, you know, I think of Ellen's picture of that baby being on her snugly, you know, all the time we're attaching, but then we pretty quickly are beginning that stage of releasing them because we want to help them flourish and to be healthy growth and dependent.
• 26:36
  Danae: So really we, if we look at that, that's, that is our job.
• 26:39
  Danae: Our job is to love them.
• 26:40
  Danae: And part of loving is to help them know how to live in the world and to
• 26:45
  Ellen: regulate, to sleep, how to put themselves, you know, we all have to learn that each child has to learn what sues them and helps them
• 26:54
  Cheryl: sleep.
• 26:56
  Cheryl: But they live in a world where there are rules, that you don't always get your own way.
• 27:02
  Cheryl: What a great thing.
• 27:03
  Cheryl: And like with everything, each time we record we'd run out of time.
• 27:09
  Cheryl: So let's come back though.
• 27:11
  Cheryl: Let's come back again and let's talk about sleep with the older kids.
• 27:16
  Cheryl: And certainly we teenagers because a lot to say about that.
• 27:20
  Cheryl: And I've got questions from moms on that too.
• 27:22
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 27:24
  Cheryl: Sounds great.
• 27:24
  Cheryl: I have an idea.
• 27:25
  Cheryl: Let's all.
• 27:26
  Cheryl: Go take a nap
• 27:28
  Danae: or I need some coffee.
• 27:32
  Cheryl: Okay, mom.
• 27:33
  Cheryl: As always remember, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.