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Why I Started a Treatment Center with Luke DeGrossi · Finding New Waters

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The opposite of addiction is connectivity.
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And I subscribe to that, meaning that when I'm alone, isolated in
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my addiction, in my alcoholism, it's hard for me to imagine a
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world where there's other people who are actually either
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recovering from or have recovered from that same exact
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hopeless state of body and mind. And so a lot of these folks,
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like when you're on the receiving end of one of those
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phone calls, it's the first time that they start talking about
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their drinking or drugging in detail.
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And they can be on the receiving end.
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Like, you know, they can hear that somebody identifies with
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that. I mean, how incredible is that?
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Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to Finding New
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Waters. My name is Bea Reeves.
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I'm the Director of Business Development here at New Waters.
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Sitting here with our CEO, Justin McClendon.
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And our very special guest today is Luke Degrassi, who is the CEO
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of Novara Recovery Center in Fairfax, VA.
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Welcome, Luke. Hey guys, thanks for having me.
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Thanks for coming on me. Yeah, thank you for being here.
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This has been in the works for quite a while now and we, you
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know, we've met you. How did we meet?
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Remind me? So we stopped by New Waters on
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the way up to Fairfax. My business partner Ryland Gross
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and I, I think somebody connected with Ryland on your
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team. And we hadn't even moved into
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our space. We hadn't been licensed yet.
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We were still sort of travelling from Charlotte up to Fairfax at
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the time, and New Waters is kind of smack in the middle.
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So on one of those trips, we stopped by New Waters and toured
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the space, met you guys in person.
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I know I stopped by for a, a breakfast that you guys did with
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a speaker. And that was, gosh, I mean,
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we've been open for six months now.
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So I think that was probably the end of 2024.
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Yeah, I remember you that that was some real commitment because
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that thing started at 9:00 AM and you drove straight down from
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from DC or from Fairfax for that.
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Yeah. Well, I learned that anybody
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who's been in the DMV knows that there's a ton of traffic in this
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area. And I would argue that it's
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probably some of the worst traffic in the country.
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But I learned on that breakfast that if you leave at 4:00 AM,
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there's no traffic. You can you can get to North
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Carolina. It's a straight shot.
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Believe me, I do that drive several times a month and I've
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learned that if I leave by before 7, there's.
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No traffic, That's great. Yeah, it's but it's I, I would
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completely second that, that it is maybe the worst traffic in
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the country. But let's not threaten our
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serenity further by talking about DC traffic.
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But anyway, we appreciate the the, you know, meeting you and,
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and you know, I could tell y'all or like minded people when y'all
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came by that first time. And then I I've been to see
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Navarro myself up and it's a beautiful facility and they're
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doing really good work there. So how did you, first of all?
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I mean, I certainly didn't imagine myself working in this
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field, mainly 'cause I didn't know it existed.
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How did you end up working in the field and starting Novara?
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It's a great question and I would have probably told you the
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same thing that I did not envision myself working in this
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field. I guess for me it started like 8
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years ago. So I do a daily practice where I
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love journaling and writing and checking in with myself on a
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daily basis. And eight years ago, I posed a
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question which was posed to me by a mentor.
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And it was something along the lines of like, what would you do
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if you had all the money in the world?
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And the question is simply supposed to get your mind going
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because a lot of people, when you ask them what, what do you
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want to do? A lot of the financial
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constraints that the ego and the brain might start to create will
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affect how you answer that question.
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And so when you remove all of the financial component and you
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go through the exercise of what would I do if I had all the
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money in the world? The answer for me at the time
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eight years ago was that I would start a drug and alcohol
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treatment center. And that seed kind of planted
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itself in that exercise that I did.
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But it wouldn't be until about a year ago when I would actually
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take action on it. So Ryland, who is a Co founder
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and the CFO at Novara and Rob Marino, who's also a Co founder
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in the CMO at Novara, are two of my closest friends.
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Robert actually started a treatment center up in Chester,
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NJ and a lot of the inspiration for Novara came from Rob and all
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of the great work that he was doing in New Jersey.
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So effectively, the three of us came together about a year and a
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half ago and started having these conversations.
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We, we came to Fairfax as a destination for this treatment
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center because Ryland grew up in Fairfax.
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And so a lot of the, you know, kind of childhood things that he
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experienced, which then played into his journey took place in
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Fairfax. As do you know if many of our
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stories, they start wherever we were born and raised.
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And so we felt strongly about bringing this center to Fairfax.
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And yeah, we, we got licensed at the end of 2024, accepted our
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first client at the end of January and have been just kind
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of growing ever since. Cool, that's great.
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But I guess I'm also asking how did you find yourself in this
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field all together too? Oh, well, that's a much.
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Yeah, that's a much better question.
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Well, so so 10 1/2 years ago, and this was not my first
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attempt at getting sober. So I got sober at the age of 24.
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And that journey started at the age of 22 in terms of attempts
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at getting sober. But my first arrest was at the
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age of 15. And my entire high school years,
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adolescent years were spent drinking, drugging, getting
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arrested in and out of psych wards, rehabs, things of that
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nature. And yeah, at the age of 24,
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found myself actually ready to stop drinking and drugging,
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which is kind of what what you know, that was the bigger answer
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to your question, I think, which is that 10 1/2 years ago the
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journey was kind of set into motion in my own recovery.
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Yeah, cool. That's all.
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Yeah. I mean, I want we, we definitely
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want to know about, you know, how the you started Navara.
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But it it you know, I just, it's always interesting to because
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like I was saying a second ago, I just I always think about that
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the image of being in fifth grade and they say, what do you
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want to be when you grow up? And, you know, I I can't imagine
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that anybody gets up there and says, I want to be, you know,
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work for be part of a, for a treatment Center for drugs and
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alcohol. But, you know, it takes what it
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takes, and I don't really think there's anything else I'm
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supposed to be doing with myself.
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So I'm I'm glad I found my way. Yeah, Luke, question for you.
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You mentioned, you know, the, the question kind of posed by
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your mentor, you know, if you had all the money in the world,
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why a treatment center? I mean, I think there's an
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obvious connection there in between your own personal
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sobriety and like, you know, maybe a calling, but maybe to
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let you answer that instead of me speculate, what's the, what's
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the connection? Why?
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Why a treatment center? So sobriety has been like the
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most pivotal thing in my entire life.
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And even just like not even just the removal of the drink and the
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drug, but then pursuing a lot of the emotional sobriety that we
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talked about in long term recovery and learning how to
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deal with defects, learning how to deal with fear.
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Like the, the psych ward that I was admitted into.
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I admitted myself into a junior year in high school and I was
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homeschooled for about 6 months that junior year in high school.
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The the fear and shame that I felt as a result of that
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experience, it shaped everything, like every single
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belief system that I carried until I got sober was somehow
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touched by that experience. And so the reason why I think a
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treatment center came to mind when I answered that question
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was because like it was, it was less about putting down the
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drink and the drug for me. It was more about reshaping my
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entire perspective on life, on myself, on others.
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And all of that started for me at a treatment center.
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So it wasn't that the treatment center, you know, magically got
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me sober, but the treatment center planted all of the
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necessary seeds. You know, I was at a a group
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meeting yesterday and we were discussing step one in one of
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the books that we were reading and step one in the, I guess I
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can talk about things like this kind of openly on here.
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But step one in the 12 and 12, you know, discusses how you, you
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should go do some controlled drinking if you don't think that
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you're a real alcoholic. And it basically talks about the
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fact that a gut full of booze and a head full of a a do not
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mix. That was like my experience.
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So when I went to that first treatment center out in a
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faraway town in Pennsylvania that ends in Ville and came back
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to my day-to-day and tried going back to drinking and drugging,
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it was no longer fun. Like whatever whatever I had
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experienced up until that point had changed by going to that
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treatment center. So the treatment center didn't
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get me sober. I just said I went back out for
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another 2 1/2, three years, I think following that experience.
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But in those two and a half, three years, I was doing,
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unbeknownst to me, exactly what the book said, which was like,
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go, go try doing some controlled drinking.
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Go, go try seeing how that works for you.
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And it didn't work. The, the solution that had
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worked for me for so many years no longer worked.
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And I believe that it was all due to the fact that I had been
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at that treatment center and they had brainwashed me for 30
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days. And when I left, I, I, you know,
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it had completely shifted. Like now the rhetoric in my head
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was no longer this like, you know, unaware, blind, like
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drinking, drugging. There was this chatter in the
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back of my head that was like, oh, they said that would happen.
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You know, they said that you would do this.
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They said that you would go lie to this person or steal from
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that person or whatever. So as it was playing out in real
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time, I now had this like consciousness about the whole
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thing and I had this awareness. And so the drinking and
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drugging, I mean it, it was no longer fun.
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So that I hope that answers your question.
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That's why a treatment center, because a treatment center is a
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place where for me personally, like so many of those seeds were
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planted and I was able to be safely removed from the
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substance for the first time in my life for an extended period
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of time. Yeah, that's amazing.
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That I appreciate everything you just said The thing that stuck
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out to me the most I think is when you said that you're in
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that psych ward. You checked yourself in and, but
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just the amount of shame and guilt you felt, the sorry, you
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said fear and shame. And it reminds me of it's just,
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it's so interesting in recovery and in treatment when people are
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almost always embarrassed and fearful, they're, they're
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ashamed that they're going to get help.
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You know, I remember I was in a meeting one time and this guy, I
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was talking about this and he said, you know, when I first got
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in here, I was so embarrassed. And I have my own memory of I
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remember hand holding hands saying the Lord's Prayer in a
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church on a street in Raleigh where it's pretty visible from
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the road. Remember it was the middle of
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the afternoon thinking, what if somebody sees me in here?
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How embarrassing. And then years later I heard
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this guy talking about this in a meeting.
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And it's kind of what you're talking about.
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It's, you know, this fear that in my case only speak for me of
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people are going to find out and the the the embarrassment of
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going to treatment and being in, you know, 12 step recovery.
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And you know, that how that is so interesting that that seems
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embarrassing. But the way this got framed, it
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said, you know, it was embarrassing was being passed
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out in the bushes, being on the hood of a car in handcuffs with
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a bloody nose. And, you know, my wallet loss
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and one shoe on and not being able to pay my bills and
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overdrawing my account and arrest.
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That's what's embarrassing. But yet we're so twisted when we
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get sober. We're we're more we're more
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embarrassed about getting better, which is noble than the
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way we were living before. Yeah.
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Well, I think too, like we we all operate from the first
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person, right? Like we're so self absorbed.
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We all think from the I I I world revolves around me.
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And when we flip that, right, like, so let's say somebody came
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to you and said, hey, I'm struggling with drinking alcohol
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right now. And my life's becoming
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unmanageable as a result of that.
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And I have all these consequences and I can't stop
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drinking. And all I want to do is just be
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a better husband to my wife, a better father to my kids.
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I want to be a better employee. And in order to do that, I'm
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going to stop drinking because every time I drink, I just seem
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to, you know, make really bad decisions.
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What would you say to that person?
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You know, you would probably meet that person with
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compassion, with empathy, with support.
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You would cheer for them and be like, wow, that's such a great,
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you know, piece of self-awareness that you've
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arrived at. And I want to support you in
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this journey. But whenever we are thinking
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about it for ourselves, it becomes this ominous, like
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shameful decision. Everybody's going to hate me.
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It's so true. Yeah, it's so true.
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And I know, you know, look, I'm sure you see this on a daily
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basis and we do as well. But I mean, it's, it's always
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such a central piece of the, of the, you know, the treatment or
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the recovery process, you know, not only for that client, right?
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That's like, oh, you know, thinking about job or, you know,
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other individuals and what are they going to think?
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Or how am I going to live my life?
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How am I going to hang out with my friends?
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All that, that stuff that we see.
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But the family members too, right?
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I mean, we see that on a regular basis that, you know, not to say
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the family doesn't love and care about their loved one, but
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there's, there tends to be a lot of time some of that like, well,
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you know, we can't, we can't let other people know, you know,
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about this kind of dark secret or, you know, what if, you know,
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the, the world at large finds out about, you know, our son or
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our daughter or my spouse or whatever it is, It's it's tough,
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man. And, and I know people talk
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about this all the time, but I couldn't help but think about
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it. And we're having this
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conversation is, you know, if it was a part conditioner, right?
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Like people just don't see it as a disease, right?
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Because if it was any other medical condition with its own
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set of symptoms, like we just don't treat stuff that way,
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right? We're very compassionate, you
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know, care is embraced and we want people to do anything it
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takes to to get better and live a happy life.
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But but addictions just not not seen that way unfortunately.
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Yeah. We've made strides.
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So I think to like a lot of the stick when you compare it to
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what it looks like even 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
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I mean, just statistically, right, Like you've got 15% of
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the population that has a Sud that's like, I don't know, 50
15:55
million Americans. And that's just like what's
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reported, right? So you got to, you got to wonder
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who's not reporting. So even just like statistically,
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I mean, if you go tell somebody, hey, I don't drink and I have a
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drinking problem and I don't drink.
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I mean, it's likely, at least I've had many experiences like
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this where I'll share that with somebody if I find that, you
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know, the situation's right for that.
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More often than not, that person either knows somebody has been
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through something, you know, has a distant family member who,
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like, you know, went through something similar.
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So I think the conversation has definitely gotten more open and
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I hope that it continues to get more open.
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Absolutely. You know, The funny thing is I'm
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in recovery. You know, people I'm talking to
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are in recovery. I see celebrities who are in
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recovery on the Internet and public about it and open about
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it. I work at a treatment center.
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I'm complete my girlfriend's in recovery.
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I'm surrounded by people in recovery who are, you know,
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quote UN quote successful, normal people.
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But yet the first thought when I hear the word alcoholic is like
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that brown bag, you know, and that addict is like a guy with a
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goat in the alley. I just still, no matter what.
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And then, you know, the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, a
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surgeon and a stockbroker. But yet still, at least for me,
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I that still that first thought is of that kind of stereotype,
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you know, And yes, the stigma is very much has been chipped away,
17:30
but it's, but it's definitely still there.
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And when the rubber meets the road, when somebody really needs
17:34
help in the family, then they can kind of clam up even more.
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Yeah. I lived in Manhattan for about 5
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years and I used to attend a meeting in New York City.
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That was my my Home group and I had a fantastic experience
17:49
there. That kind of speaks to this.
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You know, we say the the serenity prayer at the end of
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the meeting, we're all circled up and gentlemen to my right had
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probably fit fit the mold of what you were describing, right?
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Like what what you might what society or what Hollywood
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depicts the alcoholic to look like gentleman off the streets,
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probably homeless. To my left was a gentleman who
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had picked up an Oscar about a week prior for a, a, a movie
18:19
that, you know, he starred in and so like it.
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That for me was such a pinnacle moment in a, a 'cause it's just
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like this. Is it like this is it like, it
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does not discriminate? Like we're both here for the
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same thing. It's a very beautiful moment
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that I look back on. I I that's that's really.
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I mean, that could. There's not a better description
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I've ever heard of. The steerage to Captain's table
18:42
is exactly what you're talking about.
18:44
That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I so you Novara. I've been there.
18:51
It's beautiful. Y'all are good guys doing good
18:53
work. What what's it been like in
18:56
terms of what it what's been something that kind of you
18:59
didn't expect? What's been easier than you
19:01
expected? What What's it been like to open
19:03
a treatment center? It's a great question.
19:07
Yeah. My background is in commercial
19:10
real estate, specifically affordable housing.
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That was, you know, my, my first foray into the professional
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world and built a fantastic company.
19:21
And I think probably a miss on my part was like real estate was
19:26
very much like kind of 1 + 1 is 2.
19:30
You know, you, you acquire an asset, you hope to improve it.
19:34
And if the one that you're inputting you don't make sense,
19:37
then you you kind of do the deal.
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You acquire the property, put in the time required to improve it.
19:44
Very 1 + 1 is 2. Whereas, you know, treatment
19:48
center has so many different moving parts.
19:52
So not even from like a staffing perspective, although that's a
19:56
certainly a big one where, you know, day one you need to have
20:00
like 15 people hired ready to go, waiting for that first
20:04
client to come in the door. But then the second piece that
20:08
really adds a lot of unknown is that.
20:13
You know, you're dealing with clients on the worst day of
20:16
their lives and for whatever reason, when they reach out, you
20:23
know, they're they're blessed with this like really small
20:26
window that I can't create, You can't create.
20:30
There's no treatment center or program in the world that can
20:33
create it. It's just this like divinely
20:36
manufactured point in time where that individual decided to reach
20:41
out for help. And so that has really opened my
20:45
eyes a lot to the importance of being responsive when
20:50
individuals do reach out. And I think that my prior career
20:53
in commercial real estate really helped me with that, the
20:56
importance of communication, of attentiveness, of
20:59
responsiveness. One thing we do really well is
21:03
that anytime a call comes in, we have a 24/7 admissions line.
21:08
You know, we're small, like newer program.
21:10
So you better believe that Ryle and myself and Rob are manning
21:14
those telephones after hours. And then we've got admission
21:18
reps that are, you know, manning the phones throughout the day.
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But just the the attention to being responsive I have found is
21:25
extremely important. But one of the biggest
21:29
challenges has really been around licensure.
21:36
We, we didn't know, you know, that that we wouldn't be able to
21:40
open up two programs at once, PHP and IOP, which is what we
21:43
currently offer. And so we learned that by
21:46
submitting application for both licenses only to learn that we
21:51
would only be licensed for one program, not 2.
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And so that was a big frustration because we got
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licensed at PHP and we found ourselves where clients were
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leaving, you know, after 30 days of completing their program.
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And they would, they would come to us and their clinical team
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and their case management team and be like, OK, so you know, I
22:11
can do IOP here, right? And we'd have to tell them like,
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no, you know, you can't. We're not licensed.
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And so we would have to refer out and you know, for a client
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who just spent 30 days like free from a substance, getting
22:25
acclimated, learning about vulnerability, opening up to the
22:28
clinical team, forming friendships and relationships
22:31
with other clients, being told like, hey, sorry buddy, you now
22:36
have to go to a totally different program and go through
22:39
all of that acclamation again. That was really tough.
22:43
So, you know, I'm very grateful to share that we did get finally
22:46
licensed for IOP about two weeks ago.
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And so now we can step clients down and they can continue their
22:53
care at Novara. I won't maybe bog it, bog this
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down. I have so many questions 'cause
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I kind of nerd out on the whole licensure and, you know,
23:05
accreditation stuff. So I'm so curious, like why they
23:08
wouldn't let you guys do two programs.
23:10
I mean, it seems seems silly and backwards to me, especially when
23:13
we're trying to remove barriers to treatment.
23:16
I, I, I will say, you know, DBHDS in the state of Virginia
23:22
has been great to work with comparatively.
23:27
Like one of my, my partners does own a center up in New Jersey
23:31
and he's reported that getting licensed for any level of care
23:35
in the state of New Jersey is a far more tedious process than it
23:39
is in Virginia. And so for that, like, you know,
23:43
shout out to DBHDS, but I don't understand, I have the same
23:48
exact question you do and I don't know the answer.
23:51
I think that if I'm DBHDSI think the response might be that prior
23:56
to giving additional licenses, they just want to make sure that
23:59
you're able to kind of handle the first one.
24:02
But yeah, it was a very difficult first six months for
24:05
us having to discharge clients to new programs.
24:08
Thankfully there's some good partners in the area.
24:12
Yeah, you made an interesting point too, and something that I
24:15
think about talk about a lot about that.
24:18
We never know when somebody's going to have that window of
24:20
opportunity. And the way I see it, we all
24:22
have a finite number of these windows.
24:25
And as far as I'm concerned, I had one, you know, and I, I
24:28
think I'm hope I'm one of those people who did all his relapsing
24:31
before he got sober. But, but that's, that's so true.
24:34
And that's why, you know, you've mentioned that your previous job
24:38
has sort of gotten you prepared for the urgency that comes with
24:41
the territory. And I mean, that's exactly
24:45
right. That's why.
24:46
And I, you know, this weekend I was with my girlfriend.
24:48
We were in West Virginia and like, and Sunday afternoon, it
24:52
just seems like that's when everybody decides they need to
24:55
go to treatment. Sunday while I'm driving in the
24:57
mountains with no service, that's when everybody needs to
24:59
go to treatment. You know, and I joke about it
25:01
and I definitely complain about it, but I mean, I also know that
25:04
that's just how it is. You know, it's just how it is.
25:07
It's not a nine to five job. It's just not, you know, and
25:09
people are ready when they're ready.
25:11
And if we're not able to take that call and facilitate it,
25:14
then we might miss that window. And that person may never get
25:18
help, you know, or worse, you know, they, you know, something
25:20
bad happens. Yeah, I really stress this to
25:24
our admissions team that, you know, it's really it's life or
25:27
death. Like it's, it's not about, I
25:29
mean, it is about growing census because obviously you want to
25:33
continue doing what you're doing.
25:35
But when a call comes in, it's literally life or death, meaning
25:39
that for whatever reason, that person had that, that
25:43
desperation to, to reach out and ask for help.
25:47
And so when that happens, like it is all hands on deck and we
25:51
need to get that person into treatment because the moment
25:54
that we answer that phone and hang up that window, it starts
25:57
closing it, it just starts closing.
25:59
That's the nature of it. Absolutely.
26:02
And then the, the, the Part 2 of that point for me when I'm like,
26:06
I had this call, I had, I was, I was manning our admissions phone
26:09
overnight last night and I was on a call on the way into the
26:12
office this morning talking to a young woman who's lives down in
26:16
the Wilmington area. And she called needing help, you
26:19
know, and so we had a nice conversation and, and asked her
26:23
kind of when she was thinking about coming in and she said
26:26
she's got a really important meeting on Thursday.
26:28
And you know, we do this is for, you know, one step below the
26:32
emergency room detox where it's, you know, even maybe more urgent
26:35
than residential or PHP or IOP where people are like, you know,
26:40
in medical jeopardy on top of like the mental desperate part.
26:45
And you know, we had this really good talk.
26:47
Seems like she it makes sense. She wants to come in, ask her
26:49
when got this important meeting Thursday.
26:51
Today is a Tuesday. And I just said, listen, I hear
26:56
you. And I know how hard it is to
26:58
make these phone calls. I didn't have the courage to do
27:00
it myself. My mother had to do it for me at
27:02
41 years old. But what you're doing right now
27:05
is you're asking for help, which is really hard.
27:08
But the most important thing is to receive and accept the help.
27:11
And in my experience, when people ask for help, then they
27:15
wait to receive the help. It typically doesn't go very
27:18
well. You know, some people take that
27:19
as like a threat. And you know, the truth is, it
27:22
kind of is because it's true. Yeah.
27:25
It's it's a little dose of of tough love, which I think is
27:29
always the highest form of love, right?
27:31
Like for me to like, I never understand, you know, if I see
27:36
somebody who's making poor decisions and is literally
27:40
killing themselves by making those decisions, for me to pat
27:44
that person on the back and kind of cheer from the sidelines and
27:47
just be like, Co signing and you know, yeah, keep doing what
27:49
you're doing. Am I not just signing that
27:52
person's death? Like that is not love.
27:54
Like that is the antithesis of love for me to pull that person
27:58
aside and be like, yo, what you're doing right now is
28:01
killing you. That that meeting that you have
28:03
on Thursday that can wait because this thing like will
28:06
kill you. I had an experience.
28:08
I bring a meeting to the Alexandria Detention Center,
28:11
which is a local jail that we have here in Alexandria, VA.
28:15
And on Monday nights, I bring a meeting there with a couple
28:17
guys. And we have like, a varying
28:19
attendance because the jail, you know, people sign up, but then
28:23
they might not get picked. And this one gentleman, I've
28:26
gotten to know him over the last several weeks, and he's about 46
28:31
years old, and he's a drinker, like, like me.
28:35
So he would drink, he'd go to the bar, he would do his thing.
28:39
And what he did on one specific night of doing the same exact
28:44
thing that this guy does every night, like goes out drinks, he
28:48
got behind the wheel of a car. And what he did was he hit
28:53
somebody because he was drunk. And that person was a 19 year
28:57
old kid. They died three days later.
29:00
And so that gentleman now 46 years old, his wife and two
29:04
kids, six months and five years old are out.
29:08
He's in there and he's waiting to understand if it's going to
29:12
be aggravated manslaughter or unintentional.
29:19
And the difference is 10 years or 20 years.
29:22
And he's there and like his wife and two kids are out there.
29:27
She's struggling to work and make payments on bills and watch
29:30
the kids as well. And he's not a bad guy.
29:34
Like he he's not a killer. Like he didn't, he didn't like
29:38
go out that night and say like, I'm going to.
29:40
He was an alcoholic. He was an alcoholic who had
29:44
tried stopping to drink several times over the course of his
29:47
life and just wasn't willing to ask for that help.
29:50
So I always bring it back to that.
29:52
This commitments been so eye opening for me.
29:55
I'm, I'm big on service and it's really given me a perspective on
30:00
how lucky we really are when we get that window, that
30:03
opportunity to ask for help. Because I was, you know, I mean,
30:07
we didn't get into a lot of my background, but like I was
30:09
facing 15 felonies, 7 years in prison, deportation back to
30:15
Italy because like I said, I got arrested at 14, so for joyriding
30:19
my parents car. So my entire naturalization
30:22
process was put on hold at age 14.
30:25
And when I got hit with some of those bigger offenses, you know,
30:29
they started talking about deportation back to Italy.
30:32
So when I go to this commitment on Monday nights and I see guys
30:35
there who were doing the same stuff I did, but maybe, you
30:40
know, just it went in a different direction.
30:42
Like I really again, going back to that window and somebody
30:46
calls and reaches out and says they've got a big important
30:49
meeting or appointment or family vacation or whatever it is.
30:52
Like I really bring it back to that where it's like, no, like
30:55
you might actually not show up for that thing.
30:58
Because my buddy at the jail, he, like he didn't know that
31:02
that was going to happen. Nobody knows that that's going
31:04
to happen until it happens to you.
31:07
Yeah. You're exactly right, man.
31:10
Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough stuff, man.
31:12
And it's, you know, like we said, going back to the idea of
31:15
tough love, I think given those opportunities, because that's
31:18
what that is when the phone rings, you know, it's an
31:22
opportunity. And I think passivity is we're
31:25
we're not doing anybody any favors, right?
31:27
And, you know, being able to try and seize that opportunity to at
31:30
least help them understand how serious it is or, you know, how
31:35
important it is for them to go ahead and move forward with
31:37
taking that step. Can't force them to do it.
31:39
But, you know, only speak for myself.
31:42
I think in those moments, like, I need to know when I get off
31:45
that phone or, you know, dismiss myself from that conversation
31:49
that I've given that all the information and education that I
31:53
can so that they're armed to make that decision or to choose
31:56
not to, Right. But for me to not leave it able
32:00
to because it's not good for me, yeah.
32:03
Totally. And for a lot of these people,
32:06
you know, what I've found is it's like the first time that
32:09
they're actually talking to somebody who can relate to what
32:12
they're going through. And that is such a special
32:16
moment. I've heard it said that the
32:18
opposite of addiction is connectivity.
32:21
And I subscribe to that, meaning that when I'm alone, isolated in
32:27
my addiction and my alcoholism, it's hard for me to imagine a
32:31
world where there's other people who are actually either
32:34
recovering from or have recovered from that same exact
32:39
hopeless state of body and mind. And so a lot of these folks,
32:43
like when you're on the receiving end of one of those
32:45
phone calls, it's the first time that they start talking about
32:48
their drinking or drugging in detail.
32:50
And they can be on the receiving end.
32:52
Like, you know, they can hear that somebody identifies with
32:56
that. I mean, how incredible is that?
32:59
Absolutely, you know, and just to be able to say, Hey, I'm not
33:03
exactly sure what you're going through, but I but I've been
33:05
there, you know, I was, I was on a call just like this, you know,
33:08
7 plus years or whatever it is. And you know, talking about the
33:12
isolation and you know, and our, our disease wants us alone and
33:17
addiction is the opposite of connection or connectivity.
33:21
I completely agree with that too.
33:23
And something that that I learned in recovery, which you
33:27
know what, probably one of a list of mile long of things I
33:30
learned before but never registered was, you know, what
33:34
you're talking about there being alone.
33:37
That's that's selfish, you know, and I, I did that didn't made no
33:40
sense to me at first. You know, how could that be
33:41
selfish? I thought selfish meant I didn't
33:43
want to share my money or my booze or drugs or whatever with
33:48
somebody, my cigarettes. That's selfish.
33:50
But no selfish is anytime I'm sitting there thinking about
33:53
myself. And that's ego too.
33:54
It's the flip of the ego and I'm just sitting there thinking
33:56
about myself that I'm being selfish.
33:59
And that was very eye opening to me, you know, But you're so
34:02
right that some, so often these calls are people who have never
34:06
been able to say anything. They've been terrified and just
34:09
kept it all bottled up. And then just that one little,
34:12
you know, it's that sort of just grain of, of acceptance and
34:17
humility and just admitting that something is not quite right.
34:21
Because a lot of times these people are clients.
34:23
That's that's not their idea to make this phone call.
34:26
And that's all right, because there's this myth that for
34:30
somebody to get better, they have to be on their knees
34:34
totally desperate. And look at the IT it talk about
34:37
the window at this perfect window where it's got to be.
34:39
I need help. I want help.
34:41
I'll do anything. Just tell me what to do and I'll
34:43
do it for themselves. And that, you know, that does
34:46
happen sometimes, but sometimes people just need to make that
34:49
call whether they wanted to or not, and then come do the deal
34:51
and fake it until they make it long enough to get some results
34:54
and then go from there. Just take a step, right?
34:56
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
35:00
Yeah. And again, I'm sure you see this
35:03
as well, Luke. But we we see that all the time,
35:05
right, Especially it being in that, you know, that very
35:07
initial stage, right, doing, you know, detox stabilization and
35:11
trying to help that person and that family decide what's going
35:14
to happen next. I mean, we deal with that all
35:16
the time. It's like we're not asking you
35:17
to commit to the next year or even 3 months.
35:20
Like let's just talk about what we're doing literally like next
35:23
week. You know what I mean?
35:24
Let's just figure that out. Let's keep moving the feet in
35:27
the right direction and let's keep, you know, hoping that the
35:30
the miracles going to happen for you.
35:31
But let us as the professionals at least put you in a place to
35:35
where as long as you remain willing, good things are bound
35:38
to happen, right? Or or the possibility of those
35:40
good things are are greater I guess.
35:44
That I want to go with you to that H and I president meeting.
35:50
Where is it? Yeah.
35:52
Alexandria Detention Center. Where is that?
35:57
You probably driven by it like 100 times.
36:00
It's right behind this like condo development.
36:03
As you get on the highway, there's like a small little sign
36:08
as you're about to get on the highway.
36:10
And if you go straight, you get on the highway.
36:12
If you follow the sign on the right that says Alexandria
36:15
Detention Center, you find yourself at this massive, you
36:19
know, gated jail that houses, I think I think like 250 or 300
36:25
inmates. It's a really fantastic jail.
36:28
I've, I've been to a lot of jails.
36:30
And as far as jails go, it's a pretty nice jail.
36:32
And they do like an orientation, I think quarterly for, for new
36:38
members who want to come in and volunteer.
36:41
And yeah, on Monday nights, we bring a meeting of Alcoholics
36:44
Anonymous to the inmates who who are picked and who come and show
36:49
up. And a lot of these guys are, you
36:54
know, they're waiting sentencing.
36:55
So they are spending their time at the Alexandria Detention
37:00
Center waiting to to see a judge.
37:04
And then that judge will generally mandate that they be
37:07
shipped somewhere else to a prison to serve out their
37:10
sentence. But yeah.
37:13
You should. I'll get you plugged in.
37:16
OK. Thank you.
37:16
Well, hey, this is a good place to to wind it down.
37:20
What? Just Luke, please tell our
37:23
listeners how they can find you, you personally and Novara.
37:29
Sure. So our website would be a good
37:32
starting point. It's just
37:35
novararecoverycenter.com, Novara spelled NOVARA.
37:41
It's a Latin play on words that translates to new beginnings.
37:46
And another good place would probably be on LinkedIn, same
37:51
thing, Novara Recovery Center. My LinkedIn is just my name,
37:56
Luke Degrassi. That's a good place.
37:59
And then there's obviously contact information on the
38:02
website. I think my cell phone's on
38:03
there, my e-mail. But yeah, always happy to
38:06
connect with with people. Awesome.
38:10
Well, Justin definitely had that question about Novara.
38:13
Yeah. So thank you for answering.
38:15
Yeah, that's great. That's good stuff.
38:16
Yeah, I was. Wondering too Well, Luke, y'all
38:20
are doing great work. I, I can say first hand, I've
38:22
been there and I've gotten to know these guys.
38:24
They're great guys doing it for the right reasons.
38:26
And it's a beautiful, beautiful treatment center and I know
38:29
they're doing great work. So Luke, thank you so much for
38:31
being here. Justin, thank you for being
38:33
here, as always. Thank you, Luke.
38:34
It's great to hang out with you guys.
38:36
Yeah, this was awesome. Thank you so much.
38:39
Yes, Sir. Talk to you soon.
38:41
If you liked what you heard today or just want to know more,
38:43
give us a call on 9196708119 or visit us at
38:48
newwatersrecovery.com. Thank you.