Latest / Currently Curious / The Disappearance of Kyron Horman
Transcript
- Camilla: Hi everyone, it's Camilla here. I am currently editing the episode you're about to listen to with me and my friend Lexi talking about an unsolved case. And I want to preface this episode. At the time of recording, Lexi and I were talking about what we knew in that moment. I didn't know much about the case. And Lexi, although she had learned a lot about it around the time of the case and in some of the years following, neither of us had done a recent deep dive. So what we end up doing for the majority of this episode is speaking as if There was a guilty party who has just not been convicted due to lack of evidence. Since then, I have gone down a Reddit deep dive and have learned that the guilty party we speak about is almost seems far less likely to be the guilty party. I'll say that much. And that there are some other theories. Lexi and I have talked about maybe doing a second episode to follow up now that we've both read some more, learned some more, seen the things that have sort of played out since then. Good old Reddit. You know, people on Reddit really do the the most. So it was good to read some of that. Anyway. I just wanted to say this because if you have clicked on this episode because you deeply care about the Kyron Horman case and care about this missing boy, we do too. And it could be really frustrating for you to listen to this episode hearing us speak about a theory that has since really been discredited in a lot of ways, or at least on Reddit, it's it People speak as if, like, no. That is what everyone believed in the time, but it really does not seem like she is guilty. and so I just want to preface this. This probably isn't the episode for you, but keep an eye out because if we do a second part, part two of this episode, then hopefully that will be for you. So, yes, this is my preface to all of that. And if you don't know anything about the case, this is a great place to start. and once you're done listening, if you want to know more and we don't have a part two out yet, go ahead and head to Reddit because there's so much great stuff there. okay, that's it for me. enjoy. Okay. Lexi: you Camilla: Hi everyone. Welcome back to Currently Curious. I'm here today, Camilla, as always. And I'm here with my lovely friend Lexi, who I've known for I god, how long? Eighteen twenty twenty years. Very long Lexi: 20 years. Yeah. Camilla: time. We went to high school together. And Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: we've remained friends all these years. Lexi: Yes, yes. Camilla: And Lexi lives in Portland and we're gonna chat today, but before we get into what you're curious about, any any thoughts off the top of your head you wanna get out into the world? Lexi: don't think so. hi, my name is Lexi. I've lived in Portland. I've lived in Portland on and off since 2011. And, what we're going to talk about today is near and dear to my heart. So I'm excited to be here. Yeah. Camilla: Okay, good. are you completely inundated with this Macklemore stuff? Lexi: Yeah, yeah, and I love it. I love Macklemore. Yeah, I love Macklemore. Camilla: Yeah, same. Me too. Yeah. I'd kind of like I'd kind of forgotten about not forgotten about him, but like I hadn't listened to his music actively. But then today I was in the car with the kids and I was like, let's bump McLamore. And like, Lexi: Yep. Camilla: such bangers, like so good. And it like not only is it sound good, but it like feels good to listen to him now. It's like, yeah, this is what I want to support. But Lexi: Yes. He's always been that guy. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: like, you don't see that very often, people like really sticking to their guns Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: as far as like what they believe in. And Camilla: So true. Lexi: this is like an example of truly sticking to your moral compass. I'm Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: honestly, I think people are supporting him so much because we're so happy to see it. Because a lot of people, Camilla: Yes. Lexi: as soon as they have fame, they're like, like, Camilla: Rolling over. Lexi: Yeah, rolling over and it's like, yo, you're already a millionaire. I think you'll be okay, right? Like, I think you'll be fine. But Camilla: I know. Yeah. know. Lexi: I've been happy about it, honestly, because we're before I'm not gonna go on a tangent, but we're at a place where Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: you can't be indifferent anymore. You cannot, you cannot because that Camilla: No. No. Lexi: that speaks volumes. If you're indifferent. Camilla: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And it's just, it's like, I'm really hoping. Sometimes I feel like, damn, I'm in such a bubble online that I only see opinions that agree with mine. But really, like anytime I'm checking any comment section, it really feels loudly aligned. Like free Palestine, fuck the system. This is bad and broken. And I'm like, I Lexi: Yes. Camilla: really hope this pushback is so extreme that. Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: Famous people are actually have to choose between like, do I choose the powers that be or do I choose a remaining fan base? Lexi: Yep, because let's be real, they will do it until people do stand up. So it's a matter of time. It's like, do it now or do it later, right? you know, Camilla: One hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: and real quick, shout out the real G Miss Rachel. I don't know if you follow her on Instagram, Camilla: Love Miss Rachel. Yeah. Lexi: but she is. She stands ten toes down and Camilla: For real. Lexi: the way she says it is, you know, children shouldn't be dying, right? And Camilla: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Lexi: that's truly what it comes down to. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: So if you have a problem with that, that seems like another issue, right? Camilla: Right. It's like do some internal work. If if yeah. I mean, the whole thing is just so crazy, honestly. And like I often I mean, so much of what is being said is like, if you have such an issue with someone literally saying free a nation, free Palestine, and that Lexi: and Camilla: h feels offensive and like it hurts you. It's like what's Lexi: Yes. Camilla: gone what's What has gone so severely wrong here? Yeah. Lexi: Literally, literally. There was nothing offensive said and people are using it as a cop out. Camilla: No. No, I know. I know. And I feel like I'm seeing more and more like Jewish people stand up and be like, free Palestine. This is crazy. Like we've got to, you know? Lexi: It was weird. Camilla: And I like seeing that because I feel like it's very loud from those people, you know? It's like Lexi: Which is great because if anyone knows persecution, it's Jewish people, right? So Camilla: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Absolutely. Lexi: I'm glad they're being like, hey, you know, like this is not okay. Yes. Yes. Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. okay. Well now we've talked about that. What are you curious about today? Lexi: So like I said, this is near and dear to my heart and on before we get into it, I do want Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: to do kind of a precursor because this is a technically a true crime case. And I think Camilla: Yes. Lexi: sometimes when people go into true crime, they forget that there's families potentially listening, right? Family members. Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: And so this is a very local case. I'm curious. Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: I've been curious for the past Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: 16 years about what really happened to Kyron Horman. And Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: the family, the mother is from the part of Oregon I'm originally from, that same Rogue Valley area. The father lives not far from where I live. I don't know where exactly he lives now, but when the case happened, that road I take almost every day. His street is off of that road. And Camilla: Mm. Lexi: I can't take that road without thinking about Kyron. Literally Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: constantly thinking about him. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And I can't imagine what the family members have gone through in these last 16 years. Because if I meet, technically, a stranger, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: is thinking about him constantly, I can't imagine what they're going through. And so before, you know, getting into that, I wanted to speak from an empathetic level, you know, you know, this isn't just digging in Camilla: Totally. Yeah, this isn't like Lexi: because it's fun. It's truly like, my God, my heart hurts for the family, you know. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think often on this podcast we do do light and funny things. and there's room for that, but there's you know, when we're talking about someone's life, almost certainly, and a Lexi: Yes. Yes. Camilla: horrifying loss in so many people's lives, it's important to be respectful and yeah, realize Lexi: Yes. Camilla: it's not all Fun in games. And it yeah and I think with distance sometimes too. You can be like, it's 16. There's like a yeah, there's the level of distance Lexi: Thank you. Camilla: that can make people feel comfortable around Lexi: Yes. Camilla: it. But for so many people, that distance almost certainly feels like nothing. So get Lexi: Yeah, it is a far. Camilla: into it. Give us a if you can, let's start at the beginning. For anyone who doesn't know of this case, we'll go over the details and then we can talk about theories. Thoughts, feelings. Lexi: Yes. So some of the dates may not be exact, so I'm just going to give like month Camilla: Yeah, no worries. Lexi: and year type thing. So in June of 2010, I believe Kyron was a second grader and he went to Skyline Elementary, which one of the reasons I have an attachment to this case is I moved to Portland a year after Kyron went missing at Skyline Elementary. And as fate would have it, Portland is a very big area. I ended up being a nanny for seven years for children Camilla: Mm. Lexi: who went to Skyline Elementary. And so every time I would go to an event there, anytime I would go to one of their games, one of their soccer games, I would be looking around and be like, how? did he just disappear, right? Because Camilla: Right. Lexi: those kids became such a big part of my life Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: and the thought of not having any closure if something happened to them, it just is tragic. It's tragedy. Camilla: Ugh totally. Lexi: And so in June of 2010, Kyron Horman went to school in the morning for school, but also there was a science fair. And the last Camilla: Okay. Lexi: known picture of him was taken at this science fair because he had a tree frog exhibit. So there's a picture of him. I think he has a tree frog shirt on or he's holding a picture of a tree frog. can't remember exactly, but it's because that was his exhibit in the science fair. So Camilla: sweet baby. Lexi: I know. So at some point thereafter, no one knows because no one realized he was missing. Camilla: Mm. Lexi: until the school bus came and he wasn't on it. So at some point between the time he got to school and after the science fair and the end of the day, he Camilla: Mm. Lexi: vanished. There's nowhere to be found. And there is a lot of speculation against, again, speculation against his stepmother because she hasn't been very transparent and when she has been transparent she hasn't been very truthful. I can't remember exactly, Camilla: damn. Lexi: I can't remember if she completely turned down the lie detector or if Camilla: wow. Lexi: she was given and didn't pass and then stopped taking it. It was something along those lines where... Camilla: Okay, I'll do a quick Google while we keep talking. Lexi: Thank you, yeah. Because it's hard with this case because there is so much speculation. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Sometimes there's facts, right? And then Camilla: Mm. Lexi: sometimes there's people online being like, well, I heard this and I heard that because, you know, everyone wants an answer. And, Camilla: Totally. Lexi: you know, it's so local and close to everyone's heart, especially in the state of Oregon, especially in this area. that everyone Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: wants an answer and the problem with that is that sometimes people say, did you hear this? Did you hear that? And we, because it's an open case, we truly don't know what exactly is speculation and what isn't. Camilla: Yeah. It seems like Terry Horman, who is was was Kyron's stepmom, she's Lexi: That mom. Camilla: now Terry Moulton, she took and failed two polygraph tests. Lexi: got it. That makes sense. And she also went on Dr. Phil, which Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Dr. Phil, don't know if it's the most credible, but I Camilla: Yeah, but Lexi: remember watching that episode and she was very defensive and she Camilla: Mm. Lexi: kind of backtracked on her answers and stuff like that. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense. And Camilla: Hm Yeah. Lexi: given that she was the last person to see him, she supposedly went was the one who dropped him off at school. Yes. Yes. Camilla: Because she okay, she dropped him off. So do we know who took that picture? Lexi: I believe it was her. And she took Camilla: okay. Lexi: that picture. Yeah, so she was there. She dropped him off at school. She went to the science fair, took a picture of him with his exhibit. And then she left without him, supposedly without Camilla: Alone? Okay. Lexi: him. But there are people who have said they saw another adult in the truck. They saw her truck somewhere. And the problem with this is that road I was telling you about. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: That I drive down that's when we were talking yesterday and I said I lose service here for eight minutes Completely. I have no service Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Lexi: at all. Like it goes dot dot dot That Camilla: Huh. Lexi: is what road she takes from Skyline to get home or took And so they have ideas of where her cell phone pinged but there's Camilla: Mm. Lexi: enough space and time that That road Camilla: Sam. Lexi: still 16 years later, there is a spot for eight minutes, which is probably what five miles or something if I'm going this week I'm going. Camilla: Yeah, I mean eight minutes is not a short amount of time. Lexi: Not in 2026, not in 2026. Camilla: No, yeah. Lexi: Yeah. And so they can kind of see where her cell phone pinged, but because Camilla: Mm. Lexi: it's kind of a remote area, again, speculation, right? Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay, yeah. Lexi: So there's people. So the weird things that happened were, Camilla: Yeah, tell me. Lexi: supposedly she left, she waved goodbye to him and was like, told the school that he, you know, they dropped the ball, right? Where is he? Like I dropped him off Camilla: Hmm. Lexi: here and I took this picture of him at the science fair. Interesting that she waited and wow. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: If she did it, she waited until the day that there was an event so that she could have an alibi, right? Like, well, I have his picture. He was clearly Camilla: Yeah. I was there, took this picture, dropped him off. Yeah. Lexi: here because I took this picture of him by the exhibit. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: The interesting thing is that she went to... So she had a younger child Camilla: Okay. Lexi: who at this time was, I believe, two. like somewhere Camilla: Okay. Lexi: between like infant, not enough to communicate what happened. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lexi: And this infant was in her car. So she, as her alibi said that part of the time she was driving around, so said infant, I'm not gonna use her name, because she's like a teenager now, and she's innocent, she has nothing to do with this. Camilla: Yeah. An innocent. Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: So this infant was fussy, and she says that she drove around these, Rhodes with no service, well parts of them with no service, Camilla: Hm. Yeah. Lexi: to help with her fussy infant. They found her on Kerma going to two grocery stores, both Fred Meyer, two different locations within like an hour or so of dropping Kyra off. I can't remember what she was buying but it was, you know, Camilla: What was she buying? Yeah. Nothing that was suspicious. Lexi: Anyone who's... No, it wasn't like duct tape and like a flashlight or something. It was just like, Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zip ties. Lexi: you know, maybe stuff for the baby or something. But the weird thing Camilla: Okay, okay. Lexi: for me is the why go to multiple locations? Because anyone Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: who lives in an area with Fred Meyer, I think it's mostly Pacific Northwest. Fred Meyer, aka now they're bought by Kroger. a grocery store that also has clothes, it also has, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: you know, sporting goods, automotive stuff. Yes, yes. Camilla: It's a Walmart Target esque situation. Yeah. Lexi: And they all have the same stuff, right? Like Camilla: Right. Lexi: we're up here in Portland. In the suburbs of Portland, you're not gonna find much different. Even back in Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: 2010, you're not gonna find much different from Fred Meyer to Fred Meyer. That kind of rubs me the wrong way because I'm like, why? Right? Like, it doesn't Camilla: why? Right. Lexi: make her guilty, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Right. Camilla: No. Yeah, yeah. Lexi: So that was another weird thing. And so then people had seen her truck along those roads at the Fred Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Meyer. They saw her on camera. above that road, Cornelius Pass, which would go to her house from Skyline Elementary. You can go one way up that road and go. Camilla: And how how I'm gonna cut you off, how rural are these roads? Like are is this sort of out of Portland Metro? Like how out of town are we talking? Lexi: So I would say about... It's right between Portland where Portland meets Hillsborough, but it's like Camilla: Okay. Lexi: in a country area. So Camilla: Okay. Lexi: I would say it's probably like five miles from the Hillsborough Beaverton area. Camilla: And are these rule are these roads like tree lined, empty, cavernous hill? Like, is this a kind of place where you could throw a child out of the car and be like, they'll probably never be found? Lexi: Parts of it, yes. Camilla: Okay. Okay. Lexi: Cornelius Pass and Highway 30, when they meet, if you go a little bit, and Skyline Boulevard, they all meet Forest Park. And Forest Camilla: Okay. Lexi: Park, I believe, is the largest park in America. It's like, Camilla: whoa, whoa, okay. Lexi: I want to say it's something crazy. You could look it up, actually. It's something crazy like, Camilla: Yeah, I will. I'll do that right now. Lexi: I want to say hundreds of acres. Camilla: Okay. Lexi: of forested land. Camilla: Forest. Size. yeah, it's over five thousand acres. It's huge, yeah. Lexi: 5,000, so I was thinking 500. So to think of that, like think of like a farm. My Camilla: It's huge. Lexi: friend has a wheat farm, her husband's a farmer, right? Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And their farm is 500 acres and Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: it's flat land and you can't see the end of that land, right? Camilla: Totally. Lexi: So 10 times that size. Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: And it's forested, there's creeks. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Actually, it's so big that they made a horror movie based on Forest Park. Camilla: wow. Okay. Lexi: Like women who were never found, taken by the serial killer. in the... It's so beautiful, Camilla: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it looks beautiful. I mean, I n you know. Lexi: but you could hike there every single day for the rest of your life and probably not see every part of it. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: so knowing that one, these roads neighbor Forest Park. Like you can access Forest Park at Camilla: Okay. Lexi: multiple places. The kids I used Camilla: Okay. Lexi: to name me, they live like two miles from the entrance of Forest Park. And Camilla: Okay. Lexi: then if you drive all the way down to where Kyra Dorman lived, go a couple miles and you could also access Forest Park, because it's just Camilla: Okay. Lexi: huge. So yes, it's rural. And then Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: once you get out of those roads, maybe go five miles and you would be in Hillsborough Beaverton area. And if you go Camilla: Got it, got it. Lexi: in the other direction, you would go towards Portland. So it's like kind Camilla: Okay. Lexi: of like, it's almost like if you were like two sides of a square, you know what I mean? So like Corneille's Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: Pass goes down to Highway 30, Highway 30 goes into Portland. So she could Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: go into Portland, she could go into Beaverton, she could go into Hillsborough. And there's a reason why so many people live in that area. Because it's like, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: can have all your acreage, you can live in the woods, but be five miles from town, right? So it's Camilla: Totally, totally. Lexi: a pretty prominent, slightly affluent area, I would consider it. Camilla: Okay. Lexi: And, you know, so when people talk about Skyline, they're like, yeah, I live up in Skyline. It's like, so you live in the woods, essentially, right? So there are multiple... Camilla: Fan okay, got it, got it. So yeah, keep going. Lexi: multiple places where, and this is where more speculation comes in, if she had gone past her house down Cornelius Pass on that road with no service, she could Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: keep going and then probably go another five miles and there's a place called Savi Island. Anyone in Portland knows Savi Island. Camilla: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No worries. no worries. Lexi: okay. So it's right along Savi Island. Savi Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Island is the right along the Columbia River. So Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: people have speculated there are pee there are people who have gone missing in this the Columbia River and were never found because Camilla: Got it. Lexi: it's a pretty tumultuous tumultuous Camilla: Fast moving river. Lexi: Yeah, like you probably don't want to swim in a lot of parts of the Columbia River. Camilla: Got it. Lexi: Yes, there are people down there on Sabi Island who live in houseboats who would have been around probably. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: but you know, it was I think it was like a Tuesday. You know what I mean? It was like a random day. Camilla: Yeah yeah. Lexi: School had just started, it was the beginning of September. Everyone's Camilla: I thought it was June. It's September. Lexi: sorry, sorry, you're wrong. I'm saying you're right, I'm wrong. I'm thinking about September because we're in September. So it's the end of June. So it's like the last week of school. Yeah. So same thing. Everyone's like done. Right. They're they're Camilla: Yeah. So school's getting out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: over it. They're ready to be done with school. They're like, let's go to this freaking science fair so we can, you know, enjoy our summer. Camilla: Yeah, be done, yeah. Lexi: so I'm I'm doubting that people were Camilla: Mm. Lexi: really paying attention. And also there was a time It was a time when yes there were cameras, but they weren't like Camilla: Yeah, but not to the same degree. Lexi: not to the same degree. It's not like now where it's like you could be seen everywhere, right? Like I Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: assume whenever I go in public I'm being recorded by somebody or something, right? Camilla: Yeah, totally. Lexi: and back then it was like, yeah, we had smartphones, yeah, there were cameras, but everything was kind of grainy and there were places that still didn't have cameras and So it's really hard to know, like between the fact that she had in parts no service, Camilla: Uh-huh. Lexi: she technically had an alibi, right? Because she's saying, Camilla: Yeah, c yeah. Lexi: he's supposed to be at school. you know, and then the things that she's saying don't quite add up, but you can't arrest somebody just because what they're saying doesn't make sense, right? Camilla: Totally, totally. Lexi: and so the other thing that started making people realize like this is a shady character is that and this was in the book, so I believe it was confirmed. Camilla: okay. I didn't know there was a book. Lexi: There's a book. the author's name is Rebecca something. She's friends with the family, and she wrote, Camilla: Okay. Lexi: she wrote like everything that had happened. Camilla: wow. Lexi: And I haven't read it since probably 2021. So I don't remember Camilla: Okay. Lexi: exactly. But in the book, she was talking about how Terry had supposedly spoken with a gardener about putting a hit on her husband. So that puts her Camilla: Wow. Lexi: in yeah, that puts her in like sketchy territory, right? Like Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: and I'm not sure why she never got any sort of criminal charges regarding that. Like maybe it was something they couldn't quite prove or like things weren't adding up. Who knows if like, you know, people were making things up because they want to be part of the story. I don't know. But it was Camilla: Mm. Lexi: reflected in documents that I've seen and the book. And I could believe it, right? So so now Camilla: Totally. Lexi: her and Kyron's dad are divorced now. Terry lives, Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: I believe, so she has roots in Southern Oregon. She also has roots in California. And so I think she's changed her name, moved around. Yeah. Camilla: I think she's in California or Nevada. I think that's what I saw when I looked her up. Lexi: So I saw recently that she had allegedly Camilla: Yeah, Nevada. Lexi: been visiting because sh she had to do something for her parents or something in Roseburg. Camilla: Mm. Lexi: so I know she comes in and out of Oregon sometimes, but she's basically moved on with her life, right? She's still living her life. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And like obviously we don't know what's going on in her head, but she's she's getting to live a full life while a child is literally missing. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: possibly no longer with us, we don't know. And that's awful to think about. But I also would guess, I don't know because I'm not them, that the family would probably rather have closure. You know what I mean? Because at Camilla: Yeah, absol yeah. Yep. Lexi: least then they can grieve, then they can move Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: on. And so the part that's so upsetting about this case is you can read over and over and over the details, and for some reason they've just never found him. And so it's very hard to Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: convict someone. If right. Camilla: No body. Lexi: And you know, the people who were like, I saw her truck here, I saw another person in the truck, it's like they've never figured out who the person was. There's some speculation about her friend Dee Dee, who was I'm always kind of confused about the Dee Dee part of the story because people think she had something to do with it. But I have never really gotten information past like Dee Dee immediately got a lawyer and has some time where she wasn't accounted for, but there's nothing Camilla: Weird. Lexi: really because I guess they were either neighbors, like she lived in the area or something like that. Camilla: okay. Okay. Lexi: And so it's a confusing thing, like Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Maybe she had other help, maybe she was the second person in the vehicle. But the thing is we don't know, right? 'Cause there were no Camilla: Right. Lexi: there's no actual proof of it. And and also after sixteen years, details get fuzzy, you know? Camilla: Yeah, absolutely. After a week, details get fuzzy. Like, you know, Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: and that's that's the hard part. I mean, it is so devastating to have no closure. And it's almost I mean, as I'm listening to you say this, one of the main things I keep feeling is how frustrating it is that Lexi: Yes. Camilla: there are no it's not even and I don't think this would give the family much closure, but it's not even like Look, there's a very obvious solution here. Her truck was seen here, her truck was seen there. She was out on Savi Island. Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: three people saw her and Kyron leave the science fair together. Just Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: hearsay, so they can't prove it. But he was with her. She drove him out there. Something Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: happened, and he's now gone. It's like I mean, I don't feel bad for her because I do. think she probably did it. I it's Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: I alleg I mean, like, you know, don't sue me, but it seems allegedly, it really seems no, no. Failing two polygraphs is crazy. And I know that it's just a polygraph. Lexi: Yeah. Allegedly. Yes. She's not making herself look great. Let's yeah, let's put it that way. Like she would be more transparent. Yes. Yeah. She would be more transparent if yes. Camilla: Yeah. And I but the other thing that I think is I'm like It's been sixteen years. How has no one, like, say this DD woman is involved? How has no one slipped? You know, Terry's remarried. How has she not slipped? Like, I don't Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: know, it's something. I I also wonder, and maybe you have answers to these things, but I'm like, where was Kyron's biological mom? Lexi: So Kyron's mom lives in, well, at the time that I last read the book and everything, was living in Medford. because Camilla: Yeah. wow, okay. Lexi: she she and Kyron's dad had decided that it was easier for him to have custody for Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Kyron to remain in school and stuff like that. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: I believe his mom think her name is Desiree, had some health problems, is what I read. Camilla: Okay. Lexi: Like and it was a little too hard for her to have full time Camilla: okay. Lexi: custody. And then he would have to switch schools. And and so Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: I believe that had been the arrangement since Kyron was a baby. Like like two or something like that. Camilla: Okay. okay. So that's like did he go ho did he go to his mom for the summer or anything or was it just full custody? Okay. Lexi: I think he went for holidays and parts of the summer and stuff like that. And then sometimes his Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: mom would drive up. But it it almost it makes it worse because that means that Terry had literally been in the picture since Kyron was an infant, right? Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: How could you do that? Yeah. Camilla: Right. I see exactly it's not like not that you could ever justify it, but it's not like she had just Lexi: No, you couldn't. Camilla: married this guy and she was like, I really want to start fresh. And you can see a clear motive, like, Lexi: Mm. Camilla: not justifiable, but it was obvious what was happening here. But it's like that's for all intents and purposes your son. Lexi: Right. You've known him since he was an infant. You've been there for him growing up. You had him as Camilla: You've raised him. He's been your child. Lexi: your child even before your second child was born. You know, the child that they had together. So Camilla: Right. Right. Lexi: it and also children are innocent, sweet babies. He was seven Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: years old. That's like, you know, my favorite ages of children. I like all children, but like Camilla: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lexi: It's so fun when they get to the age where they're in elementary school and they're curious about Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: everything and you see their personality coming out. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And I just it never would have been okay, even if he was like the, you know, had an attitude or whatever. But, Camilla: Totally. Yeah. Lexi: you know, from everything I've heard, he was just a normal, curious, happy, sweet child. Camilla: Yep. Yep. Lexi: And children trust, you know, because they don't have any reason not to. Right. And and so it Camilla: Yeah. Totally. Lexi: feels so violating, it feels so awful that Camilla: It's awful. Lexi: someone could take that trust that a child has had to place in you, they don't have any other choice, and betray it so Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: much that he is for some reason missing. And so the only other theory I've ever heard Camilla: Okay. Lexi: was So Skyline School is on a hill in a remote area. There's a Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: big field like where pe the kids play. There's a little playground. Camilla: Okay. Lexi: and then behind the big field, there is a wooded area behind Skyline School, elementary Camilla: Hm. Lexi: school. And so some people were like, Well, maybe he wandered off into the woods, maybe he like, you know, but I don't know why a kid would do that. I feel like Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: You know, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Like I think people are grasping at straws because they don't want to believe that someone would do something so freaking horrible. and Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: and again, we still don't know what happened, right? We don't know Camilla: No, right. Lexi: he could have, you know, there are multiple theories that you know he could be part of the Epstein Files. He could be Yeah. Camilla: I was gonna say, didn't wasn't his name in the Epstein file? Lexi: His name was mentioned in the Epstein Files, but there wasn't much about it. It just said like, blah, blah, blah, child, Kyron Horman, blah, blah, blah. Like, so like for anything, Camilla: Mm. Lexi: it could have been like just people talking about which I doubt it. It's the Epstein Files, but there's just not much information about it. So I'm, Camilla: Hmm. Lexi: you know, she could have sold him for money. She could have Camilla: Really? Lexi: Well, it and the pr the thing is, like, she doesn't even have the defense of like, well, I lost my temper. I pushed him. He hit his Camilla: Right, right. Lexi: head. Because this was clearly premeditated. Camilla: The picture feels this I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't, right? It's like whatever lens you look through. If I took one Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: of my children to a science fair, of course I would take a picture of them with their exhibit. Like that I would be thrilled to do that. But it does seem especially knowing she had a cranky young toddler who she had to drive around supposedly help sleep. I'm Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: like I know the hassle of getting a toddler in and out of a car. If you're Lexi: Yes. Camilla: dropping your child off a science exhibit, even if you have to go in, it's like lugging your toddler, lugging whatever Kyron needs, dropping him off. And then to and in 2010, wait, what was it? What year was it? 2010. Yeah, Lexi: What twenty ten, yeah. Mm-hmm. Camilla: like we were taking pictures, but nowhere near to the normalcy that it is now. Lexi: yeah, yeah. Like if it happened now, like she would have been caught in probably a week because people Camilla: Absolutely. Lexi: would be like, he's in the background of this picture I took of my kid, you know? Camilla: Absolutely, because there would be 4,000 pictures from that one event. Yeah. Lexi: Yes. Camilla: So it's like it's in 2010, it is more unusual to pull out a phone or a digital camera or whatever she was using to Lexi: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Camilla: take that image. And then to Yeah. Okay. So I assume that there was a massive search. Lexi: Massive search. I mean, I think it was something like they said the it was like I wanna say millions of dollars they spent on this search because it was a long Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: search, wooded areas, like we're Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: we were talking about Forest Park is huge. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And that's not even the only wooded area. This whole area is wooded hills. Camilla: Right. Right. Lexi: everyone who lives in that area has a remote house, you know, like Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: For example, the house that I nannie'd at for all those years, it was like Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: you basically the only way you know the house is there is if you were invited, right? Because you have to look Camilla: Yeah, right. Lexi: for the little reflective signs that have the address Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: on it for the fire department to find it. So Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: you literally have to be like, yeah, this is the one. Let me turn now. Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: Because like you have to drive down this hill, this really like rugged Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: road, it's covered in trees. Like you if you Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: didn't know those people, you'd be like, Am I gonna die? Like you'd be Camilla: Right, right. Lexi: like, Is this like one of those horror movies? Like where I Yeah, where I like Camilla: Am I being lured into some horrifying situation? Yeah. Lexi: got taken out in the woods and I'm never gonna be found again. That's what a lot of that is like. And so yeah. Camilla: Yeah. I mean, I remember you saying once when you were there babysitting, you were like, I nobody would hear me if I screamed. Like n yeah. Lexi: no one would hear me. Yeah. I I always had the alarm set and stuff like that at night with the Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: kids because it's like no one would ever know if I got killed right now. Because Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: every every house is like miles apart, right? Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: Like even the closest house, it's like you had to walk, you know, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: like through the trees and stuff to get to them. So yeah, it's just she had that to her advantage and that's what made me think she probably thought this through. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: She's like, you know what? I'm in this area. I have no freaking service. Like, if I like, if you wanted to go missing, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: if you wanted to go missing, you Camilla: Hmm. Lexi: could just walk into Forest Park and like take some camping gear and live by the creek, you know, and and that's Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: that's like the movie I was talking about. The the serial killer who they eventually talk to at the end of the movie is saying, yeah, dad and her his daughter lived here for years before people found. Like they live by the creek, Camilla: God. Lexi: they fished, they, you know, like and that's truly what it's like. Like it's remote. And the only reason it's it's not weird to me is because as you know, like we grew up in a remote area. So like Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: it's not it's not as scary because it's just like you're Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: used to that. but I'm sure for a lot of people who are used to city life, they'd be like, You mean if I drive a few miles up the road? Camilla: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: You know, I could get lost and people could never be me, you know. Camilla: It's so crazy. I mean, I just feel so sad that they never even found a body. I mean, the whole thing is so sad. But I'm like, damn, Lexi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Camilla: still all this time later, no body has been no remains have been found. Nothing. Lexi: Yes. Well well and also the the mom, the biological mother, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: her husband at the time Camilla: Hm. Lexi: was a detective. I don't know if they're still together or not, but he's a detective down in Medford. And Camilla: My God. Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: so not only did you Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: know they have all everyone searching, all this funding spent on the search, they literally had law enforcement on their side in Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: their family, right? And they still didn't Buying this out. and so it's yeah, it's one of those things. I think about it all the time. I research it whenever he's on my mind, especially, you know, around the anniversary. I Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: research it, I always find more information. It's kind of like what we're seeing right now with 9-11, that it was the Camilla: Mm, mm. Lexi: 25th anniversary. And I don't know about you, but I've seen so much footage that I had never ever seen in 25 years. And Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: it's like because this was such an event, there's it's like you can never uncover everything, right? And Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: and that's kind of how I feel about this case, even though it's one little boy, and not, you know. thousands of people, it's there's always something to this case. It feels like it's there's, you Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: know, even though all the stones have been turned over, it's there's always these question marks about Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: what happened to him. And so I can't go anywhere, you know, in that area without just being like, where is he? You know, like Camilla: Her as he Lexi: why hasn't some psychic told us where he is or you know, and you know Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Lexi: though I like that we're talking about this though because it makes me think of the In Your Own Backyard podcast Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: that was talking about Kristen Smart 25 years after she went missing, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: and literally was the reason that the case was solved. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: And so I do think that people should never give up. Of course the family wouldn't ever, but I don't I think Camilla: Yeah. No. Lexi: other people should always be thinking about at least have it in the back of your mind, right? Camilla: Yeah, totally. Lexi: If you live in this area especially, and you, you know, especially if you live up in that area, near Forest Park, near Skyline Elementary, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: near Sabby Island, if you see something that kind of raises your hackles or gets you curious, or you think someone should see it, please call. Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: I believe it's Washington County Sheriff that you would call now. Camilla: Mm. Lexi: because they're the ones who cover like the Skyline elementary area and stuff like that. I'm Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: sure there's a tip line I don't have it at the top of my head, but Camilla: I can look it up and put it in the show notes. Yeah, it's it's Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: true. Like it's never too late. Things do get solved decades after they happen. and you know, if you were part of it or you knew information back then and you happened to be listening to this and you didn't say anything, it is never too late to clear your conscience. It's never too late Lexi: Yes. Camilla: to be like, yeah, I think I know what happened, or I have this. piece of information, because their famil his family deserves closure. I I feel fairly confident that he's dead. I mean, I'm sh sh there of course there are Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: ways in which he could still be alive. Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: but he would be an adult now and I think it would be pretty hard Lexi: Yeah. Yeah. Camilla: For him to not have come forward. He was seven, so he very firmly knew who he was. It wasn't like he was young enough that he could have forgotten. Lexi: He probably knew his phone number, he knew his address, he knew who he was. He wasn't young enough to be like, this is your new family now. Camilla: Totally, totally. Lexi: you know, and and it's it's kind of a different case because he's not saying this doesn't happen, but because he's a little boy, I don't know as much about like the sex trafficking trade and stuff as far as little boys Camilla: Yeah, I know, neither do I. Lexi: go. I know a lot of girls and teenage girls go missing around a certain age, but it's usually older. if Camilla: Mm. Yeah. Lexi: if they're part of sex trafficking and Camilla: Right. Lexi: sometimes they're never found because they get, you know, taken somewhere else. I don't know enough about it. I don't know that it was as prominent back then, but you never know. I mean Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: we found out on the Epstein files that these things have been going on for decades. So you really don't know. Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: but either way A family is missing their kid, right? They're missing their little Camilla: Yeah, so sad. Lexi: boy and their life will never be the same no matter what. But Camilla: No. Lexi: I cannot imagine waking up every day and still not having answers after 16 years. Camilla: It's unfathomable. I think at a some point you would have to just completely decide in yourself what happened and try Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: to try your very best to make peace with it. Because what else do you do? You know, I just yes, Lexi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What are we still doing? Camilla: I feel so devastated for them. I feel so devastated for Kyron, who, you know, I don't know. I think we could probably both speculate what we imagine happened or what, you know, what went down that day. But Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: We'll almost certainly never know unless someone decides to clear their conscience at some point. Or even if a Lexi: Mm-hmm. Camilla: even if remains were found at this point, it would be really hard to to know. Lexi: Yeah. Camilla: Okay, wait, I have just a couple final questions and then we'll wrap up. Lexi: Yes. Camilla: I know you had interaction with Skyline and Elementary. Could he have walked out by himself? Is there any Was there safeguards for kids to not you know, some elementary schools, it's like lockdown. You're not getting in or out without a parent signing you out or a caregiver. Lexi: Technically technically he probably could have walked out. Camilla: Okay. Lexi: there's some entrances like like it's one of those things, it's an old building, so there's multiple levels and then Camilla: Okay. Lexi: to get through the back door, like you can go through the gym or you Camilla: Mm-hmm. Lexi: can go through this back door that goes into the parking lot in the back. Camilla: Mm. Lexi: the parking lot's kind of like on the side and the back of the school, so Technically, yeah. I mean, anything could have happened, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: really. it's not one of those schools where you walk in and it's like immediately you're in the office, right? Like from the entrance. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: So I mean, yes, probably could have happened, Camilla: Right. Lexi: but how far could he have gotten, I don't know. Because Camilla: Right. Lexi: in order to get down to like the flat part with the fields, like down from the playground, there's probably Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: like There's a set of stairs. It probably has eight or nine steep stairs to get down to the track and the fields. And then Camilla: Okay. Yeah. Lexi: you have to go through that field down like a hill to get into the woods. So Camilla: Okay. Lexi: he would have had to be which again, there was a science fair. Everyone was distracted. It's Camilla: Could have Yeah. Lexi: totally possible. Likely, I don't know if that's likely. Mm-hmm. Camilla: Yeah, it's like what's the motivation? You know what I mean? It's I can't see much motivation to walk into the woods behind your school. Lexi: And one more thing that I Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: remembered. again, this is alleged. I believe it's been confirmed, but I don't know for sure. So I don't want to say that unless I know it. Camilla: Okay, okay. Lexi: Supposedly Terry had said he wouldn't be there that day because of a doctor's appointment. And then she Camilla: Hm. Lexi: ended up bringing him anyway for the science fair, and then being like, no, that was a different Monday. I believe that was what was in the book. It was like, no, she said it. It was this Monday, but it was actually a different Monday or something like that. Camilla: interesting. Lexi: and like, no, I did drop him off. That was last Monday or something like that, or Tuesday. And so that's another thing. It kind of shows Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: like you waited until well, you waited, I'm quoting with my fingers. Camilla: Yeah, yeah. Lexi: You waited until a day where you knew it was the end of the school year, it would be hectic. Camilla: Right. Yep. Lexi: you know, you had your baby with you, so you had an alibi, you took a picture of him before you went, you said that there was a doctor's appointment, but then changed your mind on whether or not there was a doctor's appointment. Camilla: Right. Lexi: if there's all these things that seem very premeditated, they seem like kind of the perfect storm to confuse Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: people. And and that's what makes me feel like this seems wrong. Because The father and the mother, the biological mother and the father, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: they've both been extremely cooperative and they've made Camilla: Mm. Lexi: it very clear they want to find their son. They've Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: they've done anything that the police have asked them to do, they've allowed them to search the property, the house, the school, the everything. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: The only person who hasn't been that cooperative has been the stepmom. And the only one whose story doesn't make sense is the stepmom. And that Camilla: Right. Lexi: is what and then the fact that there was some other sketchy behavior going on and they ended up getting divorced shortly thereafter. It Camilla: Right. Lexi: it's like it seems like maybe there was trouble in paradise. If I had to speculate, there's trouble in paradise. Maybe she's trying to get back at him. She is she's she seems a little unstable. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Camilla: And yeah. Yeah. Something's not right there. Yeah, it is also interesting that the friend of the family wrote the book, clearly essentially finger pointing at Terry. And I'm guessing she had insight from the parents. So I'm guessing whether or not the parents have said Terry did this, they're at least saying it behind closed doors. Or speculating. Lexi: Yeah, I believe I believe there have been some like news conferences like Terry, we know you know something. You gotta, you know, say what Camilla: Mm. Lexi: you know. And and if dare I say, like obviously the grief is awful, the not knowing is awful. Dare Camilla: Mm. Lexi: I say one of the worst things is probably not getting justice when you see it right in front of you and you know what happened. Camilla: Yeah, awful. Yeah, but there's no way Lexi: But there's just well, you think you know what happened, but you just Camilla: to prove it. Lexi: you have no way to prove it. And so this person is just getting away scot-free. And again, Camilla: Getting away with it. Yeah. Lexi: mentioning Kristen Smart, that's exactly what happened. They they were like, We have very strong suspicion that it was this man, Paul Flores. And Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: then he ended up being the guilty party after 25 years, and they Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: just had to wait for enough proof to convict him. And so I'm really thinking to myself, like, Camilla: God. Lexi: I hope it doesn't take this long, but I could totally see somebody being on their deathbed and being like, Camilla: Need him. Lexi: maybe I should, Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: you know, because now you can't say anything to me because I'm gonna be dead soon. Like, so I'm not gonna be serving prison time. And Camilla: Yeah, totally. Yep. Lexi: so I if I doubt Terry would ever listen to anything like this, but if you're listening, Terry, it you're probably gonna go to hell anyway. Like maybe like at least do one good thing and redeem yourself here. Right? And like Camilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lexi: I I don't know if that would ever get through to anybody like that, because I'm guessing there's some mental health stuff going on, allegedly. Again, I'm finger quoting, but because I don't want to get sued. Yeah. Yeah. Camilla: Yeah, I don't know how much mental right. It's just it's ridiculous. It's yeah, someone knows someone knows something. Lexi: Yep. And or if it's her friend knew something that, you know, if anyone Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: has any information, it's not serving you to Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: keep like I can't imagine the amount of like like a conscience issue. Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: How stressful it must be to have people hate you everywhere you go. At least if you were Camilla: Yeah, it's true. Lexi: in prison. You know, you can change your name, but you can't change your face, hon. People know Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: who you are. And the internet sleuths, they're gonna hunt you down no matter what. So I can't imagine Camilla: Yeah. Lexi: how many people have sent you threats. Not saying that's okay, but wouldn't it jail would probably be a little easier at this point rather than constantly having to run. Yeah. Like prison, at least Camilla: You could relax. Yeah, gone. Lexi: you just like know where you stand, right? Camilla: I wonder how her daughter feels. Lexi: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, she was so young when it happened. I'm sure she knows that something happened. I hope that it's not one of those things that it's overshadowed her life in a really negative way. Camilla: can't imagine that she got away without that hap like Lexi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not Camilla: Yeah, awful. Well Lexi: just it's not just Kyron here that, you know, obviously he was the ultimate victim, but you know, there's Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Right. There are other victims in this too. Lexi: her literal daughter is paying the price because of what she did. You know, Camilla: Yeah. Yeah. Lexi: she she doesn't have her brother anymore. And she Camilla: Totally. Lexi: has probably not a very normal knife, you know, as much as she tries. So Camilla: Yeah. She almost certainly has some like serious repressed PTSD situation. Lexi: I'm sure. Camilla: wow. Thank you for filling us in and for talking to us about it. It was although devastating, really interesting to go over again with you and talk about. And who knows, maybe we'll end up Lexi: Yes. Camilla: fine having some imag some tip and we'll solve this whole thing. Lexi: Absolutely, absolutely. And and thank you for inviting me. I I'm always I'm Camilla: my god, of course. Lexi: always, you know, I have my passion projects. This is one of them, you know, like Camilla: Yeah, yeah. I would love to talk to you about other stuff too. So maybe we'll have you back for another episode this season. Lexi: That would great. Love you too. Bye. Camilla: Okay, love you. Bye.