Latest / The soulnotskin Podcast with Jen SluMac / Falling Through the Ice - Jolene Janke

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Falling Through the Ice - Jolene Janke · The soulnotskin Podcast with Jen SluMac

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wanted to be happy, but I just had this heaviness, this weight that I just couldn't figure out where it came from.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: And through self-development, as we get curious about ourselves, then we can actually also get curious about others.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_04: Every life tells a story: a story of courage, of loss, of resilience, of becoming.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: When we slow down long enough to hear each other's stories, we stop seeing strangers and we start seeing ourselves.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Jen Slumack, and this is the Soul Not Skin Podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: A place where stories create connection, invite reflection, and remind us of what it means to be human.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for listening.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: Let's begin.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_04: I am thrilled to have a young lady here that I met of all places at a uh Golden State Valkyrie's game in San Francisco.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: She was in from what I've learned is Canada.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: She was there with a friend, and uh we got to talking.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: And first I realized that she volunteers inside the prison, and so I was really interested in talking to her about that.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: But in learning more about Jolene, she and I have a lot in common about growing up in um alcoholism and having people that we love presently struggling uh with their own addiction.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna introduce Jolene to share a little about who you are in relationship to these different things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you so much, Jen.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you have uh you have such a beautiful crusade that you're up to, and that's why I want to be part of it today and just really share because I can say that, you know, growing up, I I am uh I am from Canada and uh I run my own business and you know I have three boys, 27, 25, and 19.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have a wonderful husband, and growing up, that's not what it looked like.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I grew up um a family, alcoholic family, and you know, a different perspective.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know that um talking to Jen, a lot of people come in and they're coming through recovery, which I I totally appreciate and I just acknowledge the difficulty that that would be.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I don't myself struggle with that, but I have been, you know, working through lots of family members that obviously go through addiction.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I'm gonna talk about that perspective because you know, I know a lot of times um, you know, you might be out there and you might have a family member that is going through addiction and or alcoholism, and you know, it it does put on a lot of responsibilities, things that as kids sometimes you're taking on more than you didn't even realize that it was actually a lot until maybe later in life when you realize uh you maybe didn't have a childhood.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: You maybe were somebody who um you were responsible doing adult things long before you probably ever needed to or or wanted to.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but I've also learned a lot of things through life.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my dad really struggled with alcoholism.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: He started drinking at 16 years old.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he didn't ever have a day that he was sober, and it really dismantled his life.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the love of his life was my mom.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, she could only stick around for so long.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, that transitioned into, you know, a lot of my family members, my brothers dealing with alcoholism.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I even, you know, I have children, and you know, we we, you know, one of them is struggling with that right now.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but really what I realized is that, you know, there's a lot of as much as we can look at the pain of it, um, understanding, you know, so often in life we look at people and there's a judgment.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that what this has taught me in my life is to get curious, you know, if you do have someone in your family dealing with addiction.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I, you know, as I got to know my dad and I got to understand it was just medication.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was, it was a pain.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: His mom died when he was 16.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, I mean, I can't imagine losing a parent when you're 16 years old.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that was just numb.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: He was just numbing from something that was painful and became not a choice, you know.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we look at people and we're like, why don't they just quit?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so many times I prayed, you know, just you know, held my dad quit.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I just realized that it was so it had such a hold of him.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a disease, you know, and and at a young age, I was so fortunate to have, you know, people in my life.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's crazy today to think about it, Jen, because I even had a grade one teacher um who knew my situation and she would take me home a couple of times a week to stay at her house.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And she, I know, so there, you know, just like Jen, there's people out there doing this work, you know, these unsung heroes.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she she saved, you know, as a little girl, that was like my sanctuary to go to her house.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And today it's crazy, but you probably wouldn't even be able to do that, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then she she started um L non classes, and you know, would take us out of our regular class, and I would go to the L non class, and I was I was like seven or eight years old, and um, we just had conversations, like talk through things, like it was like a circle, a place kind of like what Jen's creating here is a place where you could be, you know, sharing vulnerably, you could be understood, uh, you could get curious about what other people, you know, are dealing with and how they're handling situations and really just community, right?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: Go ahead, go ahead.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead, Jen.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: You're saying so much, and um, I just wanna I want to sort of unpack some of what you've already said because I think it's really worth taking a look at.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there are family members, daughters of fathers who struggle, uh, mothers of sons or daughters who struggle.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, siblings uh watching one of their siblings disappear from the family, you know.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: And what you said is so rarely spoken, and that is learning to have like this understanding, getting curious, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: This is not something I come from uh myself, I'm in recovery, uh long-term recovery from alcoholism, and and I know that boy, you want to stop at a certain point.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: And every time that you try and fail, uh it gives you one more thing to try to medicate, right?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're right, it's it's not always people being in a tremendous amount of pain or or you know having trauma that they need to medicate, but a lot of times they've lived a life that sort of exceeded their ability to cope.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: And or maybe they didn't have somebody at home that they felt they could go to, whether the person was uh not emotionally available, whether the person seemed overwhelmed and that, you know, as a child, I don't want to overburden my parent who I can tell is already stressed, whatever the case, you can find belonging with your peers who are doing things that you might not want to do, you know, aren't wise, but there's that girl from math class, you want to you want to drink if she's drinking, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so it it's so this is a progressive thing, and it often starts innocently enough to to um self-medicate or to socialize or to fit in, but it is progressive and it is an illness, and it's neurological and it's biological and it's all of those things, and it gets to the point where the person literally can't stop on their own.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: And what a tragic place to be.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so when you say curiosity, how did you get to that as a daughter or as somebody who has loved folks struggling with addiction?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because I know you didn't just wake up there one day.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for for a lot of years, it was, you know, thinking that, you know, and this is that, you know, sometimes people when we're dealing with family members, we think we can help them stop.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, if we just get them to promise, if we just get them to make a promise to us, but then like you said, the broken promise adds to like having to you know, wanting to not feel that you know that you've broken your word, you're out of integrity, and you know, and so there's there's not that capacity to keep that promise in that moment, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for a lot of years as a young girl, you know, I I I I didn't actually know that this wasn't normal, also, you know, I just I just thought that you know, I mean, I think that's also part of it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: You there's a lot of things going on in a lot of families.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: My dad actually raised me since I was two by himself.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so you know, I was baking bread at 10 years old and and I sort of took a role of a wife in in a lot of ways.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: I made the dinners, I did all those things, and I became sort of a I was also like a vessel for him, you know.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what I didn't realize until later is I actually held his sadness.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I I was I as a little girl, I I was actually really um sad inside, but I would really overcompensate um by being able to put this big smile on, and everyone thought I was okay, but inside I was heavy.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until so the curiosity came, yes, right?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: So the curiosity came later when you know I really started to see that like what like I wanted to be happy, but I just had this this heaviness, this weight that I just couldn't figure out where it came from.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And through self-development, uh and really just getting involved in things like this, where you're getting, you know, even curious about yourself, you know, because as we get curious about ourselves, then we can actually also get curious about others, and so yes, you know, and I think a lot of times we go through life wanting to be understood instead of understanding.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I've really through the years, you know, like I said, I don't know where the wisdom really came from at what point, but you know, it's it's progressive.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Just the wisdoms, because one of the things you and I were talking about, Jen, as I said, like I'm at a point now, I am 49, you know, I'm I'm a long ways from that little girl, but you know, I am so grateful to God for all the gifts I had as that little girl that he gave me the capacity to be in that because he knew he was preparing me for something um amazing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I often say that life happens for us, not to us, because I realize today one of the things, even like how we connected, Jen, like I'm just drawn to to be able to make a difference with people.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have a, it's like a sixth sense.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a, it's just something where there's like a knowing.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I get curious about people that probably I wouldn't be curious about had I not gone through that because it's almost like a it's like a discernment.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm able to see things that people aren't seeing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can walk into a family's home and immediately I can see who's struggling with addiction, uh, where's the codependence relationships?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can see it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can sense it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Even my husband sometimes like, how do you know that?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's that's what I mean when life is happening for us, because I've been able to speak to things that people are not telling you, and that builds trust, you know.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that curiosity.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can ask a question, uh, and you already really know the answer, but you can ask the question so they feel like they're seen, even though they haven't actually, I would say, revealed maybe what's going on.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: But they're like almost knowing that the question is actually permission to share.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: What you described so well just now is uh, you know, in in the language of the industry, so to speak, is just the different family roles that develop around the addicted individual.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, so many of us do become, they call it parentified, which is a really fancy word for, you know, we learn to make bread at 10, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: Or I helped my I helped my little brother do his homework, and I, you know, I cooked the uh, you know, the hamburger helper for dinner and um you know put my brother to bed and sang songs to him when mom couldn't be home because she was working two or three jobs, or went out to the bar to have a few drinks after two jobs, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so it does.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: And and I I don't think I've ever articulated it that way that you said I was a vessel for my dad's sadness.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's really powerful.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: I really relate to that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think that a lot of children find themselves carrying that weight quietly, and I do think too, uh Jolene, that part of the reason you are so capable of walking into a room and sort of sensing all of it is because when we were little, we had to be aware of all changes in temperature and direction and guidance and breathing and all the stuff to navigate the chaos.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, right, that is actually something that happens uh with little people who have to navigate that chaos.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: But I love how you you change the way we can look at that for us, yes, not to us.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I really love that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's a really there's probably my favorite quote, um, you know, through life coaching, I mean there's always these breakthroughs at a home moments, but one of the my favorite quotes is when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that goes for how we that goes for how we see people, you know, like uh if we could see past the addiction, you know, and that I mean later in life, you know, my dad, I left home at 13.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it got tough.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my dad was an extraordinary human being.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: He, you know, they say that you can only love people to the capacity that you love yourself, but somehow my dad, he loved me.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, people always say that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I I think at times I was what he lived for.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I always, yeah, I always really felt um very seen.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, he he did pass, you know, in 2016, but God is so good because I actually was able to um, you know, when I was, you know, we were when I was nine, obviously through things.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: He was a really hard worker, my dad, but um, he lost his job due to the the house it got burnt down, like the shop that he worked at.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we lost our home and we had to move a few times into a few places.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But the home that we that we lost was actually a beautiful property, land.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my dad would he did he was a mechanic, a logger, he did all these things, but I know it was so sad for him.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was such another failure to add to the belt, you know, on the notch on the belt, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when I moved to Ontario, because we used to live in BC in Canada, I actually found a property, you know, in the middle of the night.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I looked online and this property came out called Heaven on Earth.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as yeah, it's crazy.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as I saw the property, I woke up my husband and I said, We have to buy this property because I know that my dad will live with us.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because my dad had been living on his own.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I called my dad, I flew him out here.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: He was still drinking, but you know, he my dad was someone who was a functioning alcoholic, you know.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I mean, he would show up at the Christmas concerts, always make a scene.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like, so you learn you learn also how to how to navigate those things.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, he's one of my favorite humans and one of the smartest people I ever met in my life.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So when I brought him here, he's like, I would move here.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not, you know, this is how powerful love is, you know, my love and acceptance for him.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: He went home, he packed his entire house, and one year later he moved here.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we had the most extraordinary love affair, I say, because we fell in love with each other and we got to see, you know, even though he still dealt with his addiction, he literally used to tell me as because he passed away a year and a half after being with me, but he said, like, I he's like, I've never loved anyone like I love you.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And his capacity to love himself grew because of love.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so when when we deal with people with addiction, like really what they need is love.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's like a gift.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that that depth of holding space for someone's pain once released, also became space for copious amounts of love that I'm able to extend.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's healing, it's so healing.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Not always easy to access when it's really close relationships to you, because being vulnerable sometimes.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a son right now, and I find the hardest thing as a mother is accessing the vulnerability sometimes, you know, for my son.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's interesting because it's like it's there and it's not always easy.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes when the vulnerability shows up, I'm like, I better just leave a message because I'm in the vulnerability.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Before I go back into before I go back into the practical ring, because you know, when you when you I would say when you're raised in the environments we're raised in, you know what predictable futures can be like, or you you foresee what predictable futures can be like in terms of like you know the path of not choosing to drink every single day.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, like one day you wake up and and you're just doing this every day and it's not a choice anymore.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when you're dealing with your kids, you're always trying to protect them, like don't touch the stove, it's hot, you know.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, watch what you're doing.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: It ends up like this, you know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes um, you know, it's it's reminding myself to go back and be curious again.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: As much as I have learned that, I think we're always having to circle back to what we've learned and reapply.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's so hard not to try to help save somebody from their consequences or from their choices when they're just when you see that it's just, I mean, it's dismal.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: It can be so difficult to look at somebody who is making decisions that you've learned about addiction.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so you know it's not really them.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: I like to say that once a person crosses a certain point in their using, whether it's alcohol, drugs, it's not they're not waking up anymore and using, they're waking up, and addiction or alcoholism is putting them on as a costume.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and then they're moving out into the world and people see them and think it's them.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: But but they're the puppet now, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's right, and and it's tragic because you want to help but um somebody said to me one time, you can't steal his consequences from him, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's the only way he's gonna grow.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: So every time you overhelp, yes, you're stealing from him.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and he's he's losing one more opportunity to learn how to cope with life.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's so true.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have such a wow, it's such a great example, you know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: My dad did that to me one time.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember having a breakdown financially, and it was uh I had a license in financial, I lost it and just because of the industry and had to go redo it all, but I was without income because I was self-employed.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I called my dad and I I couldn't make my mortgage payment and I needed a thousand dollars.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my dad saying no.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I left home, I remember I left home at 13, and I was kind of in my mind, one part of my mind was like, you know, you haven't done anything for me since I was 13, like oh girl.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I I my dad, I respect immensely for that because what happened after that is he didn't lend me the money, and as they uh they although I stayed upset with him for a few days, what happened is I got pissed off enough to do something about it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I went out and I made a decision that I would never be in that position again.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the things he said is, What have you been doing with your life that you don't have a thousand dollars?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that he helped me, although sometimes he had a hard time holding himself to account, he held me so big.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I appreciate that about him because you know what?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: I went out from that moment and I made a six-figure income from that moment.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually, like to this day, I always tell parents, it's exactly what you said.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Had he lent me the money, he would have robbed me of actually like digging in and just going and doing something about it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I just think just like what you're saying, I love that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I do too.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: I love your story.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm loving it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: I have a few questions.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: If we can go back a little bit, um talk about what you're willing to talk about.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Certainly don't let me cry.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: But um, first I'm wondering where was mom?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I'm I'm interested in um leaving at 13.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: What was that like?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: Where did you go?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: How did what happened there?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, my mom and my dad, obviously, being that they were probably both an addiction, uh, I had a brother, and my dad, you know, his dad had beat him.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was repeating that, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, my mom was scared to leave my brother.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe my dad's words to her, if it was if she took me, you would probably kill her.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that was probably true.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my dad would shoot my mom.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was like, he he would shoot her out of the driveway, she would steal us for Christmas sometimes.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, God love my mom.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she she tried, and the challenge is when things happen so young and we get outside influence, you know, for a long time.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: I had I made up story see the stories that we tell ourselves all they imprison us to things right and so I had a story I had a story that I wasn't good enough because my brother was good enough to take and I wasn't good enough to go with her and I and the life I had was hard um and part of me resented her a big part of me resented her for a very long time so you know I I never really had a relationship with my a full relationship with my mom because I just felt like she abandoned me you know and that went on to become I mean my mom and I are amazing today like literally we're like I'm like a little girl and like I'm getting back the time with her.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: She just lived with me for two years and we had so much fun.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: We traveled all over the world but what it took because there's a lot of ladies out there that have that breakdown with their mom it took me getting curious.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I kept going to self-development classes I kept thinking it was my mom.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I kept thinking I needed her to do stuff and at one point you know there was a revelation and it was like stop looking for the perfect mom and start becoming the perfect daughter Jolene that's it girls that's so tricky to learn isn't it oh my gosh and I was like and it took me until I was 45 years old you know and yeah I mean it's crazy but I you know when that happened I finally got curious and the curiosity question was what made you make that decision because I had never asked I just I just stayed in the story that my brother was good enough to take and I wasn't right and many people validated that story for me.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean there's always there's always people's opinions I say if they were cost money there wouldn't be so many.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sure right so you know so that was my relationship with my mom and it it was hard and but my mom relationship was attached to my self-worth.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So what I struggled with my entire life was lack of self-worth and I no self-confidence.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so that led to like I would say me seeking out a lot of self-development because I kept succeeding at things in life but I could never feel worthy of the success.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: I could never feel worthy of the acknowledgement or the recognition.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: So as much as I didn't struggle maybe with an alcohol addiction or a drug addiction I had a low self-worth addiction.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I really I I made that like over and over again every day I energized that story about who I wasn't you know and when I left home at 13 the the this point of that story is that you know my dad it was just difficult.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was difficult being a young woman you know my dad was actually quite angry at that time um I was scared of some of the things that were going on and so at that point I just decided it was probably safer.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Plus I would imagine I was rebellious at that time too and we lived a little bit out of town.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So moving out got me closer to town.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: But also again people you know there's these angels in life like I I a lady in town that I worked for at a gas station she let me rent her basement for$600 a month and I babysat her kids she she became like uh another parent slash sister to me and was always there for me through my life and then um you know at at 13 I had three jobs I I worked at a at a diner and the gentleman there would let me have a one hour break and do my homework.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: He was he was an angel you know so I if I look back I'm so grateful because I had all these people in my life and so I was never without love.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you know it's like they say if you you have a baby babies just know who feeds them.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we make it significant if we're not the one doing the filling their needs but like really when their needs are met they feel love.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say that I I felt love in a lot of places even though sometimes it didn't always seem like it came from like direct family.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of where I think now Jen I think that's where I always have this heart for people like that sometimes they just need they need family you know they need you to show up in a way that maybe their family doesn't have the capacity at that time but you can fill a need, you know, as being someone in their family and when their family is ready to come back they can come back and fill back that space right absolutely and I think that that is so much the way to live to see ourselves as surrogate family to everybody that we come across.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_04: People are hurting people are are without love in so many different reasons for so many different um in so many different ways for so many different reasons and um the curiosity and the um the just being there and being an angel as you've put it um it's when we think about what's my purpose what am I doing what am I supposed to be doing with my life you know if if you're who cares where you work yeah it's true.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: Love somebody love somebody be patient with somebody right um I it drive me nuts people driving super slow in front of me make me absolutely crazy it would make me nuts I I like to go where I'm going right yes yes at one point I started realizing I I made up a visual right my mother never drove she was afraid to drive she never got a driver's license she never drove so I imagined what if the person in front of me never drove and finally got the courage to try and that allowed me to have so like if that were my mom I would be so proud of her and I would pray people would be patient right it's true.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: So that little story helps me so much right or when I was working in the jail and boy some of these guys were just a handful right yeah and I remember this one guy in class one time he goes Miss Jen how do you put up with him and I said you know what when he is on my last nerve when any of you are on my last nerve I just have to remind myself that everyone here is somebody's baby.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody here is somebody's baby that's so true.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know and it's life that distorts us you know and it's the lack of uh having our needs met I think that's what you're saying is when our needs are met you know we can develop properly when our needs aren't met right that's when we struggle it's interesting Jolene because you said mom left and you had that mom wound and the um you know uh missed out on the life that your brother got and um took a long time to not be angry and to actually work on that relationship and then raised by a dad who you were a vessel for his sadness.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: Girlfriend my life was just that but flipped honest to God it was my dad who left shortly after leaving he had a new daughter I just it wrecked me right as a little girl and mom loved us to death and was self-medicating all kinds of things and it was a mess for you know 70% of the time and and just wishing and wanting and fantasizing you know if things were different.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: But we wouldn't be who we are today.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well and that's what I was gonna say to you in the hindsight of it all we choose our parents and I and I saw before I really I really truly believe that you know as I the longer the more I go through life and I'm getting to know because I mean that also getting curious about yourself you know like what are your special gifts you know and I look back and I'm like oh my gosh my dad was someone as much as he made the choices he made he did what he said he was going to do how he did that through all of that um he had uh such a mental toughness and I have mental toughness today I mean I I can we I mean he had me at 10 year olds backing up a boat you know it's like we're at the lake and I'm I'm backing the trailer boat up you know I mean my dad at 12 o'clock at night would want to go for a motorcycle ride and drive into a river and float away in the night and I'd have to get someone to rescue him.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I mean he he would say let's get in the truck and let's drive on the ice and the truck would fall through the ice like so one of the things I don't have so hold on a second.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now you're telling these stories like it's funny like you're you know bopping a beach ball around at the at the local these are traumatic things happening they are they're so traumatic but what they did is they they actually I don't have fear I mean I don't I'm not afraid of anything I get it's like fear is not part of my existence like if it's scary I'll be like oh well it'll work out because every scary thing we went through somehow worked out you know I love that I want to know how the falling through the ice in the truck can you just tell us that real quick I know oh my gosh I was about eight years old okay and my dad had this fantastic we used we had a we live by a lake so you could drive your truck on the lake I mean for the most part that worked unless you were close to the edge.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: So after doing lots of burnouts if the ice was not strong in one area.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: So my dad's truck ended up going through which I learned I never understood we were in it.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah but here's the key having windows that you can you know electric windows they I had I used to have nightmares about it because he'd always say to me you always have to have windows you can roll down because if you have old trucks you can roll the windows down.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you have remote control you can't roll the windows down.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we did get out of the truck um and we did get warm and we did actually get the uh the truck pulled out you know the next couple days but those kinds of things like I mean I tell people they'd be like what it's like yep that would be my dad he was he was like that um you know that Bernstein bear where he's like watch this son and he'd go do something crazy and then he'd hurt himself that was that was pretty much my dad the bearstead bears were my favorite.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll close up on that though about choosing your parents because I I don't have fear which it honestly gives me so much freedom today.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like I lived a life of working out my fear early.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a fearless adult life which I meet a lot of people who have fear and it does stop them from things that they could really enjoy because they fear the unknown where I actually don't fear the unknown I actually I know it's all going to work out.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: I have this faith right and then also my dad was somebody who um you know he he it's like he was he was tough you know I mean he would come in a room and he'd find the one thing you didn't do.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And as I as a child growing as a child growing up you could call that constructive feedback.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like I I probably seeked acknowledgement and recognition uh for a long time thinking that's what I needed because I didn't get it from him.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And later in life I realized I'm proud of myself and I can acknowledge myself and I my attention to detail is actually amazing.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a super skill.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of these things that felt like I wish it was easier they always say like you know get better don't be bitter and and I really have that perspective now that had anyone else raised me I wouldn't have had those like special skills and I think also the last one is when you're dealing with people that do have addiction you like you said you wake up you you assess the situation you're very good at figuring out how to be what what's gonna what what are we dealing with right but you also because you um you do realize at some point that this is it is it is a sickness that you have a forgiving spirit and I have a really forgiving spirit you know it's kind of like I can overcome things I don't stay stuck on so okay so you acted that way okay what was your story what were you dealing with like that's the curiosity part it's like now when people are having a temper tantrum for example because adults do that we get mad at people's behavior versus get curious.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like if we had a kid in front of us and they were having a temper tantrum we would hug them and we would say what's going on what are you afraid of and adults have temper tantrums and we react to the way that they're being versus get curious and go over and say like okay what's going on right now why why are what what's coming up for you you know and if if the world operated out of curiosity and we realize that people when they're afraid they they fight they flight or they facade those are the three responses to fear the entire world is in a fear mode most of the time fear of money fear of acceptance you know fear of not being loved fear of all the things and here we are and we're reacting to basically how they're how they're behaving versus being curious.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: Knowing they're not afraid of any of these things.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes fear yes well and I love what you said because the truth is I talk about this with people quite a bit uh about how we as a society or just as a human race we tend to um look at behavior as the origin.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes like that's the starting point of the problem the behavior yeah and no right no that's easy it's easy to see somebody throw a temper tantrum and say they behaved poorly get them out of here you're fired you're incarcerated you're arrested go to your room like all of that is easy but what happened what's happening how are you what's going on as an adult there's absolutely unresolved stuff that's right if I have to bark or scream or if I'm triggered to react really strongly when small things happen yeah then there's stuff that's unresolved that's right and the curiosity if we were able to adopt that would allow us to have more compassion for folks you know this is the work that I do in the prisons and in the jails and that I want to get back to doing so many people who are incarcerated probably need to be incarcerated.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: But there are an awful lot of people who had incredible sentences who made mistakes who have taken accountability and usually when somebody intervenes to say what happened to you how did that impact the choices that you made what did you do that got you here can you make amends in any way to the situation and are you willing to be a peacemaker going it's unreal yeah what we can do if we we love somebody right love not meaning cuddle but love meaning make space for people yeah make space make grace right make grace you know it's interesting what you said because like a lot of times we look at people who are incarcerated and you know there's a judgment I mean I I obviously doing prison ministry and being trained for that there's a big judgment like even people you go into a prison or you talk to prisoners or and the truth is so many I mean it's kind of like when you sin okay human beings will say that's a terrible sin.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well that's not that bad you know and it's like who made you the judge okay so I mean when when we look at people that are incarcerated I would just say they got caught and there's a lot of people that are out there and they could be incarcerated based on things that they've done or they're doing they didn't get caught and you know for so many people that do get caught um this is an opportunity for change because as long as we get away with things sometimes we just keep doing them right yeah so you know I I think it's like for me I got caught in no fulfillment in my life so it caused me it was like being in prison of my own thoughts and my own lack of self-worth.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: So in its own right that was a prison because it I wasn't free.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so just like people that are incarcerated I I believe the same thing.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're in a they get it's like a judgment of who they are and that's not their identity.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's just something they did and there was consequences for what they did.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: And they get to redeem themselves and I think like that's that forgiving spirit that if the world adopted that you know just like everybody else they're someone's baby like you said there's someone's baby you know they're they're someone's parent and so you know some some things yes um maybe there's a sickness and it it's a it's a you know like you said there's certain things to be incarcerated for but there are a lot of people who can redeem themselves you know and we just need to be able to actually see them for the who they can become versus who they've been but we like to put uh you know like pins in people yeah yeah at at their worst moment that's right yeah and and then we like to say this is who you are yeah and um boy if there's no better example than somebody who is a felon right who talks about having served time for a felony charge uh and I won't get into I'm not gonna take us on the tangent of you know discrepancies in uh arrests and and yeah prison time all these things um but the reality is that uh so many people have the ability and the willingness and the desire to figure out what's going on with me.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_04: What is going on with me more times than not in my experience what I've learned uh with the people that I've got you know had the opportunity to talk with and to work with inside uh state prison or county jails it's not so much that they're looking for a second chance they're looking for a chance a chance yeah because a lot of times they didn't get any tools that's right they didn't get their needs met as a little person so they kept growing up and the world's expectations of the larger size of them you know kind of went and they couldn't live up to it that's right you know it's um I don't know it's interesting I know there's much work to do yeah the system is I'm taking notes here yeah I love what you said the story that we tell ourselves imprisons us and you just talked about it again prison in your thoughts there's this wonderful um analogy and then this wonderful film the film I want you to make a note of and go see and I also encourage the listeners to it's called the prison the prison within and uh a man that I know and some other folks uh put together this film from San Quentin State Prison now called State Rehabilitation Center just recently changed um and it's about how the mindset inside when you're living inside can either be your true prison or your true freedom and being able to free yourself mentally emotionally spiritually um opens you up to doing things that sometimes can lead to release yeah right and so it's a beautiful film yeah definitely check it out the other thing I was going to say about that is um you know this story about an elephant if you tie an elephant to a stake a baby elephant to a stake you know this story yeah and and you let them be on that you know tied to that stake for 10 years and then you remove the rope and they just stay yeah because they don't know that they can go right and there's so many people in our world who don't know that they can go or do or succeed right yeah well that and that happens in addiction I mean that's where addiction perpetuates itself you know we we see something and it becomes normal and then we and then we repeat right that's why programs like what you're talking about it's like spaces and creating community where people can have dialogue and conversation and and start breaking those cycles and those patterns that are out there right so how do we do it Jolene how do we get the world to be curious you know it at the end of the day it's I do believe that a lot of things in life are choices.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we you know we don't make see the thing is or something I always say to people we don't we don't fix a car until it breaks down.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can drive around a car and a car is like you know making noises it's on its last legs but we'll drive that second Till it breaks down.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: But once it breaks down, we have no other choice but to fix it.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, we don't have a vehicle.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, that's the human being.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times it does take the total breakdown.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what you said, like we can't rob people of that.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the hardest part is loving people and knowing that it has to sometimes get to that point.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I work with people with money.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as much as people desire to have abundance and money, it sometimes takes them getting to the point where they have no money to finally be willing to make the necessary changes to hold the money differently.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can win the money.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: And to think about it differently.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's all a mindset because you can give someone a million dollars, and if they don't have a money mindset within a couple of years, they'll have no money.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, I mean, this is this is the things that we need to work on.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: We need to work on what do we really want?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: We focus a lot on our past, you know.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say the rearview mirror is really small.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Focus on looking forward, you know.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what do you really want?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because whatever we're focused on is growing.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you want, there was three, I I did a workshop and it said, what are three things like identify like ways of being?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like what does your life represent?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said it earlier, like people look for what's their purpose.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And a couple of the things I talked about is I wanted freedom.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, well, what does freedom mean?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Freedom of like caring what people think, freedom to just be self-expressed, just freedom to say whatever I want to say, right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's freedom.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I want freedom.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: What else do I want?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want freedom financially.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was like, I want love.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like love is really, I mean, without love, I mean, it's so lonely, you know.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like if the whole world just focused on loving, like how can I love right now?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do right now to love?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if we just focused on that, like go do a hundred random acts of kindness.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're depressed, just go think of a hundred things you can do.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Every day your focus is what can I do for somebody else?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, girl.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you do that, if you do that in a hundred days from now, you'll love yourself because you'll get a reflection back of who you're being in the world, right?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then so love was my next one.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the last one was connection.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Freedom, love, and connection.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I want for my future.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you ask people what they want in their life, you'll say, Why do you want that?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you want the wealth?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you want those things?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: What do you how what's the way you're gonna feel?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, freedom, love, and connection.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing about that is I can choose freedom, love, and connection even when I don't have money, even when I maybe don't have all the things sorted out.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: I can choose like a circle.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: I can be in pain, I can be in all those other things if I keep focusing on that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: But if I just kind of step out of that circle and I step into this other circle, and it's freedom, love, and connection, I can be that in this exact moment.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a road trip.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I get in a car for 10 hours, the road trip is painful.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really want to drive for 10 hours, but what keeps me going is wherever I'm headed to, obviously, I felt like a 10-hour drive was worth getting there.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm constantly thinking about when I get there, I'm gonna see these people.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: When I get there, I'm gonna do this.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: See, we have to do that in our life.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we want to get to?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then right now I can think about that.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if I book a vacation right now, I'm so excited about the vacation because I know it's the future I'm living into.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I can be on the vacation on the last day and I know I'm coming back to my regular life.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: And people can living into.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, leaving this podcast is it's like, what do you really want in your life?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: And think about that most of the time.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you will get yeah, you'll get what you you'll get what you focus on.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: They say your personality is your personal reality.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever you're thinking about, yeah, I that's a that's a really good one because some people say, I'm just like this.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're like that because of the thoughts that you're thinking, because your thoughts is where you take your actions from, right?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: And your actions are giving you the results of your life.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if you change your thoughts, which really to change your thoughts, you gotta change your language.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing that anything you speak out of your mouth is like you're you're actually putting that out there as something really.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it's gonna manifest.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's gonna manifest.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, this is I so appreciate everything that we've talked about today, Jolene.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I think um one of the reasons that I love doing what I'm doing right now with the storytelling and the podcast, and using my book to create curriculum for um young people growing up without the basic needs met, and and needing to find ways to um increase resilience and you know, foster growth and development in community with connection.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, all of these different things that I'm doing, I love it because it's about, like you just said, man, it's about connection, uh, empowering freedom from self-old ideas, and you know, the mechanics that sort of uh break our path because of where we've been and don't know the language of what it is and how to fix it.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um and what did you say, freedom, love, and connection?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and love.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we can we can learn to love ourselves.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_04: I always got clarity about myself through stories that I would read.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: I I read stories or I watched a film or I heard a song or whatever.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's always been some sort of creative narrative that has given me language for something that I was experiencing, and that's what I want to do with this this podcast, and that's what you're helping me do today.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's connection and it's love and it's freedom.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: One of my favorite things that my um my pastor actually says uh is that we want to go into the world always saying, What does love require?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, today.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: What does love require?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so and love is an action, you know.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a verb.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, you you know, it's in action.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what are you doing to get out in moving and do something?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Opening a door, you know, complimenting, like because when we're outside, I find sometimes we just spend too much time inside and we can't impact people the same way, or like what you're doing.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is still getting outside because this is this is being out in the world.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: We met at a basketball game, and here we are building a friendship, and you know, and I and I would say a couple tools that I would say to leave you with, because I think sometimes it's kind of like okay, I got all this, and you know, one thing I think a lot of people in the world feel right now is overwhelm.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a couple there's a couple of things I say when you feel overwhelmed, overwhelm is just feedback, and feedback is just saying to you that you're not committing to something.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: So if I feel overwhelmed with finances, I probably haven't sat down and looked at my money and my budget, and and it's just requiring me to just take a minute and sit down.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: If if I'm overwhelmed with time, like I think people have a big, you know, there's no time, I have no time.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you keep saying you have no time, all that time you say you have no time, you had time.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it took a while.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: So just get a calendar out and just actually put on your calendar everything you're doing from the time you get up in the morning and you know, do 15-minute increments on your alarm clock.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: What did I do?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: What did I do?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: What did I do?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll be surprised.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna find a whole bunch of time.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So any area, if you're if you're overwhelmed in your relationships, well, then you likely have some people on your heart and there's work to do, you know, just one by one, write a letter, make the connection.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: What's one thing you can do?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: Take action, take action.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you do feel paralyzed by fear, which I think a lot of us do at times, fear is just the absence of courage.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: So just what's one thing you can do that scares you?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you're it's also, I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, I was gonna say, so you look for the next action.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever you feel fearful, there's an action to take that you know to take that you're not taking.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Take that action.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we also the fears are um, I love this.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: It says false evidence appearing real, right?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we look at something and we start imagining it's that thinking thing again, right?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_04: What am I thinking about?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: What is coming?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm thinking into problems, I'm thinking into failure.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm thinking you know what I mean?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so absolutely.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: Love is love is a verb.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh overwhelm is trying to tell you that you have action to take.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's well, it's commitment.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's it means you're missing commitment in something.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you just kind of the question to ask yourself is what am I not committing to in that area?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then just go make the commitment.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: And just one day at a time.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, everybody that's out there listening right now, I'm watching Jolene, and she just really is as comfortable and quick with these thoughts.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm I'm looking at her, and she's got a big smile on her face, and she's like, you know, just go commit, go and take the action.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it's pretty, it's pretty fantastic.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I, you know, your voice, your energy, um just all of it.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_04: You're such a joy to talk to.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and I just I've really enjoyed this conversation.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta ask, and I'm sure that this is not necessary or welcome, but do people sing the song to you?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: They do.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: You yes, and you know the irony of that story is um, you know, when I read, because I listened to the words, you know.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine my mom left it too when I was two.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm whole life, people would sing this song, and I would listen to the words, and it's like, please don't take my man away.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, what was going on?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: But really, it was just that it was a unique uh and funny enough, I didn't like my name for a lot of years.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I wasn't my middle name is Catherine, and I thought I wanted to be called Catherine.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: And now you know what, it's such a unique name, and I I do feel that God gave me special things and it and I appreciate the name because people remember it.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love that.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh being in Canada.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's 10 o'clock there when we started, right?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: Three hours ahead of me, and it's very deep in the evening for you.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much for taking the time.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: If today's conversation reminded you of someone, share it with them.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_04: If it reminded you of yourself, don't let the story end here.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: Take a few minutes to write about what stayed with you.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: You see, the stories that we tell ourselves shape our lives, but the stories that we're willing to examine can change them.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_04: If you'd like more resources or to contact me, visit solnskin.com.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: Subscribe to my newsletter, and you'll receive the free self examination starter guide as a thank you for being here.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep discovering yourself through the stories that we share.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: Bye bye.