Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / All Hope Lost?🔥Galaxy Digital INTERVIEW🔥Steve Kurz

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All Hope Lost?🔥Galaxy Digital INTERVIEW🔥Steve Kurz · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All hope is lost in crypto. We're looking for a
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: shred of evidence that could move us to a better
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: market position. We're going to break it down today. Before
• 0:08
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  Speaker 1: in XRP. So the link down below, you guys are
• 1:01
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• 1:04
  Speaker 1: all right, So let's jump into it today real quickly.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I've got Steve Kurz who's coming in as head of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: digital Assets over at Galaxy Digital. Steve, nice to see you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: How are you.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: That's quite a day to talk about crypto doing. Okay?
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Here, yeah, here we go. The markets are absolutely in meltdown,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: or feels like it, as Bitcoin continues to fall. A
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: lot of assets really on the edge of a point
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: right now. How important do you think it is for
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: crypto to get a little bit of a relief rally,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: or at least a return rally for this market to
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: sustain in the next few months.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I think the bigger problem for crypto is it already
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: had a narrative problem, and so then when you layer
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: in the narrative problem with some of the news that
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: we've seen recently, the z cash hack, there was some
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: negative commentary on hype as an example, and then you
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: have AI roll over last night and Korea down. It's
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: just it's one too many things for crypto to handle.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're there yet. I think we have
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: a little a little more to go. We're still you know,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: peaked to trough probably down fifty percent relative to you know,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the bear markets previously that I've gone maybe seventy eighty percent.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So even if you have the relief rallies, you're still
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: in a structural bear market. I do think there's light
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: at the end of the tunnel. I just think we're
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: not on the other side of that yet. And you know,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: the thing that could help it all, obviously is Clarity,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: which I'm sure we'll talk about in a couple of minutes.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get into that. Is there any
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: good news on the horizon? Obviously we saw the pushback
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: on Clarity now in the August Center. Lumbas has already
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: started to go in this direction. We're hearing this from
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of our DC contacts. It looks like it's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: being pushed into a very critical time slot in August,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and if it doesn't hit, then you know, it's pretty
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: much game over for Clarity.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: What is your.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Opinion right now in terms of good news on the horizon?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, the good news is the intent
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: is there and it might be the only thing in
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: DC where there is you know, sort of positive bipartisan intent.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: And you saw that in the vote in mid May,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and so I think there is a genuine desire to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: get that done. It's a little better than coin flip
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: on our on our on our dashboard. I think the
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: you know, the the risks you say are procedural and timing,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: and then of course this ethics clause are the two
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: big questions that need to be worked out. There's a
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: lot of bank positioning, there's a lot of posturing in DC.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: We do think clarity goes through that could certainly stop
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the bear market in its tracks and really help the
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: institutional dollars start to come in, which I'm happy to
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: talk a little more about.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So speaking of institutional, we've got something that
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: is on the verge of happening, and that is the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: IPO for SpaceX SpaceX IPO. I'm looking here at poly
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: market and this is closing above a certain market cap
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: right now. It is leaning at around one point six
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: really good. But there are numbers now that are heating
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: up around two trillion in the market. Do you think
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: this will be bearish for the S and P five hundred.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's it's an untested uh, it's an
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: it's untested territory for for anybody, So it's hard to
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: know for sure. Obviously, I do think there's very limited flow,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and this index inclusion stuff is a big deal. So
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the idea that you don't have to wait a year
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the way Galaxy Digital did to be included and you're
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: automatically faced with this passive buyer based relative to low
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: float does tell you could squeeze through a little bit.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I think the broader SMP story is going to be,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you know, what's going to happen with the follow through
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: on the other big AI names and frankly, how much
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: liquidity is there to absorb some of that. I do
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: think corporate earnings have been better than expected. The AI
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: narrative is down today, but it's been pretty robust over
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the last month or so. May was was white hot,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and then you had interesting jobs numbers this morning that
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: give you confidence, maybe not in the FED, but certainly
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: confidence in the economy. And so you know, it doesn't
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: look that bad. We are late cycle. I don't think
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: it's inherently bearish on the on T zero from the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I p O. I do think, you know, we're we're
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: more close to the end of the cycle than the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: beginning of the cycle. I'm not sure that that SpaceX
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: moment breaks the back of the market though.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Interesting I like that analysis there because that's a bit
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: of a different spin. A lot of people are really
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: worried about that one.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: So this is going to be something, right, I mean,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, and just if it is
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: nearer to the end of the market that the market
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: cycle than the beginning, I don't think it'll happen the
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: way everyone expects it to happen, and just this constant
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: fear mongering around it. I just I just think there's
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: you know, there's also liquidity that are locked that's locked up,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: and there's more to more to play out on that
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: before you have the real the real wall go the
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: other way.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: With all of what we're seeing right now, stable coin, uh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: stable coins will become extremely important as we see a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: lot of asset assets moving into stable coins right now,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: probably going to be one of the biggest growth sectors.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Now in the next few months, you've got Jeremy A.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Lair who is going head on against MasterCard, which of
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: course MasterCard getting ready to launch your stable coin. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: have a clip of that. I want to get your
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: opinion of this. Let's play it uh.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Visa, MasterCard, Stripe and coinbase are reporter reportedly partnering on
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: a new stable coin platform. How do you feel about this?
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: I think I'd say a few things here. I think, first,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: don't believe everything you read the news.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Most importantly though, is that the track record of consortium coins,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: the track record of new dollar stable coins in this
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: space is it's pretty clear where the track record is.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: None of them have worked, and they've struggled to get
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: any distribution, and any distribution that they've gotten, they've had
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: to pay subsidies. So these are actually money and losing
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: products for those companies that are subscale, not successful. And
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: you look at the data, the significant majority was USDC,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: the second was USDT, and the third was all these
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: other stable coins and all of their transaction volume rounded
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to zero.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And don't believe everything you read the news.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Jeremy jumping on them and of course kind
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: of cooking them a little bit, saying, hey, this business
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: is a little harder than you think. Guys, You're just
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: not going to jump in here and play with the titans.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So what do you think we are we in for
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a multi stable coin race? Here's I think.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: First, of all, a lot of respect for Jeremy and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: the team. I mean, what, you know, if I were Jeremy,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I probably would have some version of that as well.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: So I understand the perspective. I'm not sure about the
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: don't believe you know what you hear. I'm sure there
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: are a lot of consortium conversations that are happening. I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: think there's room for many, I really do. I do
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: understand the winner take takes all idea, But at the
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: same time, we're three hundred billion dollars in stable coin
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: total market cap, and we expect that to be five ten,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: fifteen trillion dollars in three or four or five years,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: and there's going to be a lot of different use
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: cases and a lot of different walled gardens, and a
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: lot of different you know, blockchain back ends that have
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: different commercial agreements, and so I really don't I don't
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: believe it's going to be winner take all. No, I don't,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and I think I think that there's enough room frankly
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: for both the co exists.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: How do you think this is going to play out
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: for the banks as they start to launch stable coins?
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think they'll have a major portion of the market.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I think they'll have I think they'll have a chump,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: but I think I think the banks. What's been interesting
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: about the banks is it's actually more of an infrastructure
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: question in my opinion. In other words, they started with,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe we need to have crypto access for
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: our wealth business, maybe we need to keep an eye
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: on stable coins and have you know, a play or
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: we're part of a consortium. And then what we've seen
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: in the last six months is a real oh shit
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: moment from banks where they may flip from we're going
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: to check the box on a stable coin and a
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: crypto and a box solution for wealth to this is
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: fundamentally an infrastructure discussion. It's fundamentally something that we if
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: we're a jesib or above a certain market cap, cannot
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: afford to not own ourselves. And it's not about one
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: of those verticals. It's about all those verticals. It's about
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: tokenized equities and real world assets and bitcoin and stable
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: coins and AI and vaults and your head starts to spend.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And so I think the opportunity set that we're seeing
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: for Galaxy is we've built out that infrastructure for our
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: buyside and our cell side. Why don't we go help
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: them do that? And so you're going to see more
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: from that regard, including with stable coin strategy, because you
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: really can't just pick one piece off when it's fundamentally
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: a replatforming and a rails story, now a stable coin
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: or bitcoin or other coin story.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Speaking of an oh shit moment for the banks, I've
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: got a clip here to play of Jamie Diamond.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Here.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Take a look, Jamy, you.
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: Just talked about this forty billion dollars in capital and
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: you said that that money could be used as an acquisition.
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: We know you can't buy another deposit institution of the
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: United States, right, You're at the limit in terms of deposit.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: So do you want to buy a tech company? Are
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: you going to buy fintech? What are you thinking about?
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: We look at everything, you know, just to be smarter.
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: We've had on coin based CEO a lot, and I
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: know that he wants to be able to pay rewards
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: and the banks are worried that it's going to mean
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: people are taking money out of their deposit accounts.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: We're not worried.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: But is that who you were talking about when you
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: said there's a lot of competition out there?
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: No, No, I was talking about Revelue and Stripe and
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: Chime and Dave and so far, and you know somebody PayPal.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: But I tell me, when people open your eyes, look
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: what they did. We didn't do it, and something we
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: could have stable coins might be among that list. I remember,
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: you have to buy the stable coin and sell the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: stable coin, so the transaction costs on both sides. But
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: even person to person, it could be anyone's while second
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: one maybe a sex trafficker.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: It'll be a huge problem.
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: So are you happy with the way the Clarity Act
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: is turning out?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: No?
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: No, because it allows them to effectively pay interest on deposits.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: So no, it's the banks will not accept it that way.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: I'm not worried about stable coin, but if it happened,
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: I'm telling you I would have nothing to do with
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: it and it would eventually blow up in his own.
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: Well, the markup is coming. I mean, what are you
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: going to do about it?
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: It is, we'll fight it. No one's going to bow
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: down to this guy, okay, or that company.
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: He said he's representing the whole full of shit. Well
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: we're going to watch that one.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, I.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Think we are going to watch that one. It's getting
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a little heated there with Diamond and of course mister
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Armstrong over Coinbase. Do you think JP Morgan buys a
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: crypto company he's signed like forty billion?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I think Jamie Diamond's more more sophisticated than he lets on,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and that sometimes people give him credit for. And I
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: think the way if you go back many years, not
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: just from that comment, you can you can really piece
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: together a thoughtful strategy of what's actually being built behind
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: closed doors with very smart people at JP Morgan and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: then some of the public sparring. And so I think
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I think he's obviously world class at that. Uh I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: would I would be very surprised if JP Morgan and
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: others didn't buy crypto companies. And I think the fact
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that we're in a crypto bear market is actually a
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: really interesting time relative to the bull market in pipes
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: and plumbing and infrastructure, digital rails and stable coins, that
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: that sort of disparity is it's impossible to ignore from
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: You know, if I were an m and a banker,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I'd certainly be sharpening my pencil. Well.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: He you know, in that same interview, he was talking
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: about that most of these assets were over valued. These
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: are of course, are starting to take a pretty big beating.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And if you look at clown Bays, you could look
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: at you know, a variety of others, Gemini out there,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and many others that would maybe fall into that. Who
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: do you think he would Who do you think JP
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Morgan would target? If you were a good guess.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I think there. I think that they're you know, they're business.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: He's at it right there, he said, look at the
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: buying and the selling of the stable coins. A bunch
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: of FinTechs. Look, we think there's a great convergence. We
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: think that anyone who's focused in infrastructure, whether that's staking,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: whether that's walid infrastructure, whether that's custody, whether that's trading.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, those are all adjacencies that you know, forget
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: bitcoin again. Someone who needs to act in the unchained
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: world or in DeFi is going to is going to
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: need that tooling. They're going to need to operationalize twenty
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: four to seven. They're going to need to be better
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: on the payment side, which is what Jamie alluded to
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: in that in that commentary, and there's plenty of companies
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: that fit that bill.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: All right, Listen, you guys have launched something here it's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: an OTC prediction market. Tell me about this ten million
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: trade crypto native hedge fun you guys are doing this
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: on Calshi at launch. Tell me more.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It's like a lot of what we what we do
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: is we you know, we're a little bit more on
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: the frontier than a JP Morgan, but we do very
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: much believe in the institutionalization. The problem with prediction markets,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of course, is twofold. One it's in many cases glorified
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: sports betting. And two in many cases it's it's re
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: tail focus, which means there's not liquidity. And so you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: as as market operators, we have always been fascinated with
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the idea that on a bilateral basis, prediction markets allow
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: for you to hedge of you. And in this case,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: one of our longtime clients and friends of the firm
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: in Arca, wanted to hedge of you that they already
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: had exposure in other ways against which was the passage
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of the Clarity Act. They weren't able to do that
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: with the liquidity on the screen. So to speak of Calshie,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: it's very easy for us on an OTC basis to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: paper that we have many ways that we can let
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: that risk off. But fundamentally, what we're doing is we're
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: warehousing that risk and we're providing a binary option effectively
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: to our institutional hedge fund, family office crypto clients to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: be able to you know, around certain areas, not sports betting,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: but regulatory piece, you know, policy, those kinds of things
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: offer liquidity and something we're to do a lot more.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Of timing could be good here because maybe with these
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: markets as they are right now, maybe that is the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: good news here is the prediction market could be on
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the rise here because of the volatility within that and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: of course the fact that we're most likely going to
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: see some pretty crazy IPOs hopefully in the coming future
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of some of these companies. So yeah, which is a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: good one.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Just to be a little bit more positive because
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I think I think when we look at crypto and isolation,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and certainly crypto has underperformed. So I'm not being sort
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: of pollyannish about the space, but I do think that
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: this great convergence theme that we've invested in and talked
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: about in our business is going to be fundamentally positive
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: for crypto. The growth of the on chain economy is
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: probably not coming from bitcoin demand, right now, but it
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: will be coming from the banks, building the architect texture,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the stable coin use going up. That's reflexively good for crypto,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: that's good for bitcoin, that's good for hyper liquid. You're
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: seeing hyper liquid equally allowing for you know, purpse, including
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: for hedging purposes around oil and SpaceX and so again
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: that convergence is going to is going to drive you know,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: some flywheels that are both on chain and off chain,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: and that will be good for the market cap of
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: core crypto. It's not going to happen overnight. You need
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Clarity to pass and then you need more more, more tooling,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: and more access points to be developed. But that's happening
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: in real time right now.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: All right, we are going to go to our I
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: agree with you there, but we're going to go to
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: our lightning round. This is our fun question and answer
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that we put everybody kind of grill everybody. But the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: question is to lead off here with is closing your
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: laptop until Congress passes clarity? Do you agree or disagree?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I agree?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so you're on the side of clarity
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: is pretty much crypto right now? Oh sorry, I agree? Yeah, yeah,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: get you in the right in the right, crypto industry
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: companies were ridiculously naive to think that banks were afraid
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of not passing clarity, that they weren't going to put
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: this much pressure on it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's true. Yeah, I think that's true.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit naive on that. I'm in agreement there,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: here we go. Clarity fails means JP Morgan gets to
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: buy crypto companies at about a fifty percent discount.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: What I actually I actually don't agree with that. I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: think that I think JP Morgan is is gonna ultimately
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: get the clarity. They're gonna try to get the clarity
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: they want, not not say no to all of clarity.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: But Okay, that's a good that's a good point. Uh
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: do you think they have chance a chance between now
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: in August to do that? I mean here we're talking
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: about really just a month and a half.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I think with this DC anything can happen. I agree
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: that reconcil is going to force there, it's gonna there's
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: gonna be a straight jacket around what's possible. But but
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: there are there are still there are still things that
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: can be impacted. Yes, so I don't think it's totally over.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: No, the justling Clarity passes the Senate by August. Do
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: you think that's gonna happen?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes, yeah, it's close, so you're.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: All in on. Yes, I am fast becoming a skeptic again.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I was not a skeptic. Then I was a skeptic again.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: And I feel I feel a little bit unusual because
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing this just constant whipsaw coming out of DC.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's just a constant whipsaw, and it doesn't seem like it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: It's like on any other topic except clarity.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I'm with you, yeah, I mean again, the only thing
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: that gives me confidence is just the intent is there.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: The chaos is the chaos, but there is still intent
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and so maybe that's that's night. But that's what I'm
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: paying my hat on.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. On the bright side, the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: market collapse can only be positive for stable coin adoption.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's true.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and we're going to see I'd be interesting to
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: see if Circle really takes on a larger lead across this,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: or if we see some some growth in PayPal and
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: r l usd over on the ripple front. Which one
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: do you think could would gain the most during this market?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: You can't count I mean the crypto companies that have
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: balance sheets are are you know, it's not a big list.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, Ripple's got a lot of ambition, and they've
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: been in payments their entire life, and they've got they've
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: got a great team, and they've got a lot of
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of balance sheets. So I wouldn't count them out.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I'd put them towards the top.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, Ripple towards the top. Here you go, this is
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a fun one. McDonald's outperforms Bitcoin in twenty twenty as
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: a stock. I mean McDonald's in a down market McDonald's.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I mean I love McDonald's. You know, you know you
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: can get a beer with your happy meal. It's kind
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: of funny. I would, I would, I would unfortunately agree.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, fortunately in twenty twenty six, I'm with
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you on that one. Okay, the big arches AI breaks
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: another big l one in the next six months.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Oh I really hope not. Oh that's a hard I mean,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have expected it was z cash.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So I have to say, yes, Okay, well there you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: go find big.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, like big hopefully not a big, big
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: l one, but maybe uh yeah, a top twenty.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Hey, z cash is a pretty big that's a pretty
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: big platform, very.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Big platform, but it was becoming bigger and it was
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: it was positioning itself, you know, as as the modern bitcoin.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So it just can't happen unfortunately for that story to
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: play out.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, z cash proves that security is at least a
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: one and fifty premium on price.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd probably take the over on that, but yeah.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm in with you on that.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: That Yeah, for that pocket or the crypto market.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the security is pretty significant. If stretch fails, the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: negative sentiment of master will be insurmountable.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I think it depends on how stretch fails, all right, Like,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: like you know, it's very clear that sailor has to
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: choose between betraying Bitcoin betraying his common share holders or
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: or or you know, or these guys and so like it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not negative, I guess. I guess the answer is yes,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: remstr but not for Bitcoin. So so I would say
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I would say yes, all right, but I don't think
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: that that's fundamentally bad. Like he just has to pick
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: who he's going to go after.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And I think what happened when he when he tested
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the bitcoin sale, he realized that that was, you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: that would kill the golden goose of all three, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: therefore it's not I think he was testing and and
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the test was not the answer he wanted.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Is my that would agree. You can only choose one
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: mid term election champion, Calshi, poly Market, only one.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Gotta go Calshi.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: All right, you're gonna go Calshie. I have to go Polymarket.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: When it comes to the political side of it, they
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: have been the waiting champions. I mean, you know, it's like, hey,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: what's bigger institutional posturing slop right now? JP Morgan City
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: deposit Tooken's coming or DTCC launching permission equities?
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Can I say all of the above?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, all right, you're gonna put it in the
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: middle of.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: No no offense to JP City or DTCC, but yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna above.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got you last up Sailor buys in the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: next five years.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: No, come on, no no way, no.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Way, no way, All right, I'm gonna go. I have
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: to go the contrarian opinion here because I think he'll
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: do what's good for his investors, and I think he
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: may try something there and he's listening. He's watching tom Lee. Yeah,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: he's watching tom Lee. Tom Lee trying to flank him,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and eventually the apprentice out does the master.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I hear you. I mean that's true, but like you
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: can't be laser eyes. I don't know, you just it's
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: such a it's such a such a it would be
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: a point, right, Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, well, I mean if you follow
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: his DeFi moves where he sees that, and I always
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: listen to his speeches because he always drops in a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: little granule of interesting narrative that makes you think he
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: might be giving this some thought.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure he's thinking. I think it's it's uh yeah,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: it'll be a true to see Steve.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Steve, it's been good having you on. Thanks for coming
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: in today. We appreciate it.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Paul. Thanks.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: If you like this video, like and subscribe, drop a
• 21:50
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• 21:54
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