Transcript

Brenda Siri · Calm Under Fire

Col. John Boggs: Well, welcome to Calm Under Fire. I am Colonel John Boggs and I am the president of Fortitude Consulting. And Fortitude Consulting is a executive leadership and coaching firm. And today we have Brenda Siri with us. Now Brenda believes the right connection can change everything. As president and CEO of Corporate Connections LLC, she works with organizations to identify leaders who don't just fill positions, but strengthen culture. improve performance, and help organizations grow. Her work sits at the intersection of talent, trust, and leadership under pressure, where the wrong decision can slow momentum and the right one can transform an organization. Brenda, welcome and thank you for being here. Brenda Siri: Thank you so much for having me. Col. John Boggs: You've spent years helping organizations make critical talent decisions. When did you first realize how much pressure leaders carry around hiring and people decisions? Brenda Siri: Well, you know, I think that it's something that I've known for a long time. I mean, I have worked both on the corporate side and the agency side. And when... When a company loses a leader, it costs them a tremendous amount of money. The average cost of attrition for losing someone in a leadership position is between 150 % to 300 % of that person's annual salary. you know, it's really, really costly for a company. So making the right decision when you bring a leader in is so crucial for the person making that decision from a standpoint and the impact that it has on the business. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Is it just cost? mean, what makes the difference between leadership hiring and hiring for a simple role? Brenda Siri: Well, so typically a person in a leadership position has many more years of experience than someone who's maybe a mid-level manager, right? So you're bringing someone in at a much higher level to bring more expertise into the organization. There is still a cost for, you know, of attrition for losing someone in mid-level management, even losing someone in an entry-level position. It's just that those costs go down because you're not losing as much skill, it's not as hard to find someone in an executive type of role or a high level leadership role as it is to replace someone in mid-level management or entry level. So the costs just are exponentially higher in leadership attrition. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, my, my. Well, can you tell me real quick about the turnover rate? Is there a rate of turnover for high level folks? Brenda Siri: Typically no, most people that are in high level positions stay in those roles for a number Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Brenda Siri: of years. If I am looking for candidates for a high level role, if I see a lot of turnover on their resume and they haven't stayed places too long, I typically see that as a red flag because people in executive positions typically do like to kind of cozy in and stay somewhere for a while. Col. John Boggs: okay, they cozy in, they become part of the culture. let, Brenda Siri: Right. Col. John Boggs: yeah. So let me ask you about that. Culture often looks strong until pressure hits. So what do leaders most often misunderstand about culture and difficult? Brenda Siri: Well, I will say, you know, when there is pressure, a leader... should be there to support their team, right? They are supposed to be there to model the behaviors and to influence the standards. And if there's a lot of pressure, employees get scared. know, everyone feels it. It's not just the leader who feels the pressure, but their team feels the pressure as well. So it's really important for leaders to stay very engaged with their teams, be as transparent as they can be with their teams when there's a lot of pressure because maybe it's just a lot of pressure because, you know, there's a huge project that's lagged a little behind and the pace needs to be picked up. And something like that isn't going to end a person's career, you know, it's not going to be career ending. But oftentimes, employees immediately go to the worst case scenario and start thinking, you know, there's just so much pressure here, I'm going to lose my job or I can't keep up with the pace. So it's really important. important to have a leader who is very connected with their team, very supportive, transparent in communication, and helps keep everything and everyone feeling as steady as they can while they work through those pressures. Col. John Boggs: Have you ever had the situation where, know, a company, they're under pressure, they need to bring in the right people, but they just hired the wrong person? I have you ever experienced that? This is just the wrong person for the wrong person, wrong position, just wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Brenda Siri: Yes, many times. I've had companies reach out to me for help and say, we didn't hire the right person. We need to backfill this person and we need your help. So yes, it happens more often than you would think. Col. John Boggs: You know, I often tell leaders to be very leery of a particular senior leaders. I call it my cardinal sins of leadership, but one of those cardinal sins is being too friendly or hiring your friends. And have you seen that? Have you seen that happen where they, well, they just, they're going to avoid Brenda's organization. Well, no, I've got this guy, I worked with him over here or. I work with her over there and I know she's just fabulous. But then they get in there and it doesn't work out so well. Brenda Siri: Very common, very common. know, people think, companies think they can save some money by bringing in referrals and people that they know and then oftentimes they get in there and they are wrong for the role and then they end up having to engage with someone like me to help them fix that mistake. So it happens more often than you would imagine. Col. John Boggs: So you get a lot of trust. People have to trust, they trust you and the relationship. So what helps a leader build trust quickly in today's environment? Brenda Siri: think building trust starts with honesty and integrity. You you've got to be an active listener. You've got to be approachable. You have to be fair. You know, when you're leading a team, a leader who has toxic behaviors like a big ego or someone who shifts blame or micromanages their team or lacks accountability, those toxic behaviors are detrimental to an organization. So it's really important to bring the right people in and expect that they are going to lead with levels of accountability as well. Col. John Boggs: toxic behaviors that's that's that's that's something I mean that can really damage trust can it Brenda Siri: So much so, absolutely. I have worked with toxic managers before and it's, know, I mean myself, I've had toxic managers and then I have worked with clients who had a toxic manager they had to get rid of because it really, it's very damaging to an organization. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Have you had to bring people in? Well, this may not be a fair question, but have you ever had to bring people into an environment that was trying to change, an environment that was toxic, and somewhere along the line, someone realized, hey, we've got to fix this, and they engage with you? I mean, how have you dealt with that? Brenda Siri: So I will say this, typically if a company is pretty large, big size company, but they have a toxic environment. they may not realize it or they may not care. They may have just the person at the top has decided to lead the way they're going to lead and everybody better be in for this toxic environment or they can go get another job somewhere else. I've seen that. I've seen companies who recognize they have a toxic culture and are working to change it, but typically when they're reaching out to me, they're asking me to find the people that can come in and help lead in turning that toxicity around. Col. John Boggs: Wow. I have a couple of questions on that one. you had the situation where the person They're not toxic. You're bringing in a person, you wouldn't bring in the toxic person to an organization, but you're bringing them in. Have you ever caught, have you ever? Brenda Siri: Office of Co-organization. Col. John Boggs: Yes. Have you ever had pause for bringing a good person into what you know is not a very healthy environment? Brenda Siri: Let me say this, if a company reaches out to me for my help and says, look, we realize we've got a problem here. There's a level of bad culture, toxicity, things that we need to turn around and we need your help. I always ask the client, am I allowed to share that information? Because I don't wanna put a bad mark on a client either. wouldn't want. to go out there and say, my client wants me to bring you in, and they're wonderful, they're perfect. But typically they're like, no, please do share that information because they want to change things, they want to turn things around. Col. John Boggs: How do you recognize leadership potential that others might miss? mean, people come into you and you recognize something in them. How do you do that? Brenda Siri: Well, first of all, if I'm talking with someone, anyone that I interview, I'm asking them behavioral-based questions. So it could be that I'm talking with someone and I'm hearing things that make me think, wow, this person's really got a lot of potential, right? But they haven't. had that role yet. And typically when you're hiring for leadership roles, you're talking with people who are tenured and have already had the experience. But if I'm talking to someone who hasn't gotten there yet, I might start asking questions like, have you ever been given the opportunity to be a leader in an organization? Have you ever worked for a company who saw the potential in you and wanted to train you or get you to the next level? Sometimes, just because I think someone has the potential a leader, it doesn't mean they want to be a leader, you know? Some people, I actually interviewed someone recently who told me they were put into a leadership role they don't want. They don't like it. They don't like the responsibility that comes along with it. And they just wanted to go back to being an individual contributor. And that can happen, you know? Sometimes companies will have an employee who's been there a long time and 10 years in they're like, man, this person. is great and they've been with us for so long and they're so loyal and they're so dedicated, we should probably promote them. And then they do and where they drop the ball is they don't prepare them for success because they don't train them, they don't give them the tools they're going to need to be a leader. Remember, they've been everybody's coworker but not a leader. So you have to really sort of be able to, one, recognize if you've got someone in your organization who's got the potential to maybe speak with them about their future goals and if they want those opportunities to advance and if Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Brenda Siri: so you've got to give them the tools to be successful. Col. John Boggs: Gotta give them the tools to be successful. I like that. What is it that separates leaders who want to continue to grow and those who are good with that plateau? Is there something that you see in them that... Brenda Siri: Definitely. I think that the ones who grow beyond the plateau are the ones who are asking for feedback, right? They go to their leadership and say, I want to get to the next level. I'm a vice president today. I want to get to a senior vice president. And the only way I'm going to do that is if you're willing as my leader to mentor me or give me some additional training. They're constantly evolving their thinking and embracing the unfamiliar. situations so that they can stretch their own skills. And the people who are just happy where they're at, don't ask to get to that next level. I remember a time in my career where I went to my boss and said, I want to get to the next level. What do I need to do? What training can you offer me? What mentorship is there? What would make me potentially get to the next level? And that's what I really see is those people hungry for it, they're asking for it, they're willing to go above and beyond to learn something new to get themselves there. Col. John Boggs: How do leaders create an environment where people can actually feel like, well, the people you bring in can actually feel like, hey, they're valued, you're walking into a situation here, you're gonna be valued, you're gonna be groomed, you're going, is that a function of you spending time with the company or is that a function of spending time with the person you're bringing into the company? Brenda Siri: No, I mean, really that is not my role. A company should Col. John Boggs: Okay. Brenda Siri: be making sure that the expectations for the person that they hire are set up front. There's nothing worse than coming in and not knowing what is expected of you and what's expected of your team. And as a leader, you can't... put those expectations in front of your team if you don't understand what they are. So it's really important for a company to bring someone in and be clear about what the expectation is of that role, of that person, and of that person's team that they're gonna lead. And... Once those expectations are set, the leader, in my opinion, has a responsibility to get with their team, share those expectations, and be offering to coach and mentor their people to be their best, right? You've gotta be willing as a leader to communicate frequently with your team. And by all means, if you are going to be a leader, don't be the leader who only recognizes failures. You want to recognize people's successes in their efforts, especially if you're going through a time of heavy pressure in a company and everybody sort of has to step up to the next level to make Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Brenda Siri: sure that those pressures are resolved. You want to recognize their efforts. for what they've done. That's so important. Col. John Boggs: Yes, yes, that is important. That's, that is very important. Yeah, that's, that's how you get, that's how you keep good people. And that's how people grow is when you, you're patting them on the back at the right time. Brenda Siri: Right. Col. John Boggs: And it needs to be sincere. So yeah, yeah. What kind of pressure do leaders underestimate about their teams? Brenda Siri: well. When there's pressure on the boss, the employees feel it, right? And they are paying attention to how you are handling the pressure. They are looking at your body language, at your tone. I mean, look, if you're under pressure and you're out there screaming at people, Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Brenda Siri: you're scaring them and you're making the pressure worse. So, you know, they look at how you make decisions, you know, and so really to me a successful leader even in times of pressure stays very steady, right? And they support their team through the pressure. They provide as much transparent communication as they can. But that level of, you know, not being an emotional leader is very important because if you're feeling under pressure and you're taking it out on your team, you're not getting the level of support you need from your team anymore because they are just freaking out. Col. John Boggs: my God, yes. Brenda Siri: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: my God. So when organizations are growing. and pressure is rising, what do leaders need to remember most about the people? Brenda Siri: You don't want to underestimate the invisible pressures that employees are experiencing during times of uncertainty, right? I mean, they're wondering, am I valued? Is my job safe? Does my leadership actually care about me? Are they happy I'm on this team? Am I doing a good enough job for them? mean, there's all these invisible pressures that an employee is not trying to put out there, right? They're keeping it inside. They're internalizing it. But they're wondering those things. And a leader should be providing trust and... really support during times of pressure to help reduce those invisible pressures that employees are feeling. You want to be the one as a leader to absorb the pressure, not Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Brenda Siri: put the pressure on your team. That's your job. Col. John Boggs: What separates organizations? What separates organizations that attract strong leaders from those that struggle to retain their leadership? Brenda Siri: Well, I think that when a company is able to get a strong leader in the door and that strong leader says, I want to be here, I want to be a part of this, it's because there is a good culture. There's a good culture, there's a good product, there's something they can be proud of. I actually am formerly an adjunct professor. And I would tell my students, when you are going to look for a job, make sure you believe in the products and that's something that you can stand behind, right? And it should go that way all through your career. the example I would give them is I could never work in an industry, maybe a food manufacturing company who manufactures chicken products because I don't eat meat, right? So I couldn't really get behind their products and believe in them. But if you bring a strong leader into a strong culture and you have great products that they can get behind and believe in. You have a mission and a vision they can believe in. Those strong leaders will stay. But ones that you can still be a strong leader and go into the wrong company. If you're a strong leader and you go to work for a company that doesn't really have the right value proposition for you or the products that you love and believe in and you just took a job to get by until something better comes along, you're not going to stay. And that's really not the company's fault. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, wow. Wow. So the cultural, this always comes back to culture, doesn't it? Comes back to culture. Wow. Brenda Siri: It does. I mean, I think it's really important that, you know, people spend more time working than they do anything else each week, right? And you've got to make sure that wherever it is that you land, that you feel very strongly about the organization's culture and products, you know? And that, you know, you are there to support the other people and the success of the organization. So that passion that lies inside a leader should be there, you know? When I talk to people, when I'm interviewing people and I'll talk with them, you know, about... my clients and what they do and what their products are. If in the end of the conversation all it comes down to is money, I know they're not the right fit for that company. Col. John Boggs: Ooh, wow, if it's just about money, not the right fit. Holy smokes. Brenda Siri: Yeah. No. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Wow, that, wow. About money, not the right fit. that's truly interesting. Wow. Brenda Siri: Yeah, think, you know, I mean, as an example, Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Brenda Siri: just a few minutes ago, I reached out to someone about a role that I'm working on, Col. John Boggs: huh. Brenda Siri: and I was very transparent about my client's salary expectations, and the person came back at me and was like, no way, not interested. And that's okay, they wouldn't have been right for my client, you know? Col. John Boggs: Wow. Brenda Siri: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Wow. That's truly interesting. That is truly interesting. Brenda Siri: You can gauge a lot about a person by talking about compensation expectations pretty quickly in an interview, and I do. I get right to it. And I'll talk with them for a couple of minutes about their resume and their background, but then I say, let's go straight for the gut check. I want to know what you're looking for from a compensation standpoint. And depending on how they answer the question, it tells me a lot about the person. know, some people will say things like, well, I'd really like to know more about the organization and the role and the responsibilities and to know if this would be the right fit for me before I answer that question. Some people are like, I absolutely wouldn't consider less than X amount of dollars. And, you know, there's just a different feeling. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, yeah. One puts the money up front, the other puts the position, the responsibilities. They're already putting the organization ahead. Wow, that's very cool. Brenda Siri: And I will tell you another question that I ask people is when you think about your next role, what's going to be important to you about the company's mission and values and culture? And interestingly enough, probably 90 % of the time, what people tell me they want is to work for a company that is transparent with their people. That's what people want. Yeah, I hear that more than any other statement. I want to work for a company that's transparent with their people. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that's actually, that's really good to hear. That's great to hear. Brenda Siri: Yeah, because I used to ask that question, 10 years ago, and the answer Col. John Boggs: huh. Brenda Siri: was more like, well, I want a company that has a great break room or ping pong tables. That's what culture meant to them 10 years ago. And Col. John Boggs: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Brenda Siri: culture is really shifted in corporate Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Brenda Siri: America and what's important to people nowadays. So it's good to see. I think it's a good shift. Col. John Boggs: Wow. That's a great shift. That's very interesting to hear. Thank you. Well, Brenda, for organizations, companies, people looking to strengthen their leadership teams, their culture, but more importantly, to get involved with you, can you tell us a little bit more about your business, what you do, how you do it, and how can people reach you? Brenda Siri: Absolutely. So, the way I look at working with my clients is I have a responsibility to find them the best of the best, right? I'm not just out there, you know, trying to make a transaction happen. I want a long-term relationship with someone. So, trust is very important. I never, ever put a candidate in front of one of my clients that I haven't thoroughly vetted first. So what I do is I meet with my clients and they provide me with their job description. I really deep dive into their job description and use it to create a set of interview questions for every candidate that I will talk to for that role. Every person that I talk to gets asked the exact same set of questions so that there's no bias in the process, that there's true fairness in everything because every person's gonna answer it their own way. But that also allows my to see how those candidates answered those questions. So then I present those candidates, I send my interview notes and their resume to my clients. I allow them time to review and let me know if they think that person would be a good fit or would not be a good fit. My questions aren't just based on skills and job requirements. I do add in behavioral interview questions as well so that my client can see And what's interesting is some of those behavioral questions, when people answer them, I immediately know they're out and I don't send them to my client. Yeah, Col. John Boggs: Okay. Brenda Siri: if they say things that... I feel are concerning. know, like one of my questions I'll typically ask is, you know, if I were to speak to your former boss, what would they tell me is your greatest strength? And they'll tell me, and then I'll say, what would they tell me is your greatest opportunity for improvement? And if there's ever an answer there that I feel leads towards that person maybe being a little volatile in the Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brenda Siri: workplace, I don't want to put them in front of my client because I'm not there just to make money. I want... to feel proud about someone, about a client calling me five years later and saying, you know, that person that you placed with us five years ago is still here and they're just so great and we love having them. Now we're coming back to you to fill another role for us. So, you know, I wanna build long-term relationships. That's what's super important to me. And if you want to learn more about my company, you can go to www.corporateconnectionsllc.com and we have a lot of information on there about the team, about... how we work with our clients. And also we are a certified women owned business. So if you're looking for support from an organization that worked very hard to get that certification, there's a lot of companies out there that want that and we're very proud of having that. So we'd love to work with you. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Wow. Well, Brenda, thank you very much. And for the folks that are listening, hey, executives, if you're looking for a change, you're looking to get into something different, please reach out to Brenda. If you're hiring, you want to reach out to Brenda. And her website is www.corporateconnectionsllc.com. Brenda Siri: corporate connections. Yes, and Col. John Boggs: Okay. Brenda Siri: there is information there. If you're trying to connect with me, you can leave a message there and I will certainly connect with you. Col. John Boggs: Perfect. Thank you. Brenda, thank you very much for being here today. I greatly appreciate it. You were awesome. And Brenda Siri: My pleasure. Thank you. Col. John Boggs: for everyone that's out there listening, again, if you're hiring, reach out to Brenda. if you're looking to get hired and you got your stuff together, reach out to Brenda. All right, folks, that's it. Till the next time, thank you very much. Remember, leadership is too important. takes two... get wrong. It's just don't get it wrong. That's it on this end. Out here.