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What I've Learnt - Kim Krejus & Sigrid Thornton · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Australian actors have always been uber talented, but they're having a big moment in the sun, with the likes of Margot Robbie, Kate Blanchett, Hugh Jackman, and Rebel Wilson spearheading some trailblazing productions and featuring centre stage in some of the most awarded and revered global films.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Baz Lerman, Russell Crowe, Chris Hemsworth, and a stream of internationals like Matt Damon and Tom Hanks are filming big budget movies here.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we need the best educators to train, prepare, and equip the next generation of in-demand Aussie actors.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Patron Deborah Lee Finesse and Stella much-loved actor Sigrid Thornton, now starring in her new role in the Chekhov classic The Seagull at the Sydney Theatre Company, are just two of the wonderful actors supporting what many dub one of the best acting schools in Australia, the 16th Street Actors Studio.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Its director Kim Crages has brought some of the world's most renowned acting coaches and directors here, including Leonardo DiCaprio's acting coach Larry Moss, Bradley Cooper's acting coach Elizabeth Kemp, and Ian Rickson, who directed Hugh Jackman on Broadway.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Kim has elevated what training means in this country and exposed actors at all levels of their artistic development to the world's best.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Global guru Russell Brand was so impressed when he visited 16th Street Actors Studio to speak to all of the actors there that he donated his large fee to the studio, supporting their vision to teach actors here in Australia.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in 2023, 16th Street is planning to bring Jennifer Aniston's acting coach Nancy Banks and actor William Defoe to conduct masterclasses.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm thrilled to have two wonderful talented women who I adore to join me on the What I've Learned Podcast to talk about their passion for acting, teaching, mentoring, and why Australians have become such precious, respected, and in-demand artists globally.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, girls, welcome to the What I've Learned Podcast.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So thrilled to have you join me.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's lovely to be here.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's lovely to be here, for sure.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sigrid, I'm going to start with you.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have traversed the gamut of stage and screen, and I loved seeing you recently in the play Lifespan of a Fact at the STC.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's really quite exciting to see everyone back in the theatre.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Australian actors seem to be thriving and striving.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see the acting landscape adapting to the avalanche of streaming and other filmscape opportunities?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And how is that changing what actors should do and learn, if at all?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a complex and interesting question, Deb.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It has multiple sides to it.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: The answer's multifaceted, I believe, anyway.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a massive increase in the need, a desperate need for product internationally, which places Australia in an excellent position in all sorts of ways, and by virtue of that, Australian actors in a very positive and advantageous position, which I believe needs to be tempered with a vigilance regarding Australian content.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just to start with Australian content, and we can move on to the opportunities that we all know, and most of the viewers of this and listeners to this podcast will know that Australian content is something that we can never take for granted.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's amalgamising a whole lot of different platforms and this massive need for product, which is fantastic.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: But at the risk of homogenizing those English-speaking platforms, we need to continually remind ourselves of the uniqueness of our cultural landscape and our societies and the fact that we are still discovering and rediscovering every day, every week, every month, who we really are.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we explore who we are and who are we becoming and ask those questions is through storytelling.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not necessarily through storytelling from other English-speaking platforms, it's also through storytelling, just exclusively Australian storytelling, as it were.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: That said, Australian storytelling, as we've learnt with something like Heartbreak High, which has just gone global on Netflix.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Huge.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's been huge.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you could argue quite a colloquial production.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, there is now this thirst for content which is different.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Australian actors feed into this really well because I've always said that Australian actors, even when they're playing with an American accent, have a kind of, there's an individual um individuality that they can bring to the landscape, which is born out of the fact that they are different.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when Margot Robin work, for example, works with an American accent, she's bringing a different cultural sensibility, nevertheless, to the work, which I think differentiates her from the field, the rest of the field.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think we can we can work this to our advantage, but we need to be ever vigilant, I suppose, is a sort of I've taken a long time to answer that question.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a really good point.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and it was multifaceted.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's because, in a way, what we're dealing with is multifaceted and multi-layered.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And your points are really interesting.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Kim, you're seeing obviously as director of the studio, you would be seeing this sort of well, you've also been doing it for a long time.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you've seen these wonderful actors and actresses go out into the world and be successful via the studio.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: What are you observing in terms of who's coming through the pipeline and how are we meeting the demand?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Which, as Sig pointed out, is quite monolithic, whether it's parochial local work or whether it's overseas like Margot Robbie, what are you seeing come through the studio?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Deb, I don't understand the question.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, can you try that again?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm saying, what I'm trying to understand is as the studio, the people that come into the acting studio, has that changed?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or I well, yeah, I think something has definitely changed in a sense of the effect of what's happening in the world.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: I can see the effect uh of that on young people, for sure, no question about it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: If I think about, well, you know, let me take myself back to when I was a young actress myself studying in England.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the idea, I just felt like the world was waiting for me.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just threw myself into life and I really thought I was going to be received with open arms.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: So watching people, I see more anxiety and fear.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I see people who now are striving somehow to get it right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And this notion of getting it right sometimes can surpass the whole idea of exploration and discovery and being in the unknown and the albeit at times frightening place of the unknown, it's where magic happens.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because if something is easy or if you know it, it's not so profound.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's when you literally are willing to risk kind of it all, what you've done before, what you've known before, and to be in that process of discovery.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say I see a difference.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see anything less talented.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's the psychological stuff, Deb, that I actually see has changed dramatically.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's the bit.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Larry Moss, the great acting teacher that you mentioned, that we bring out to Australia and hopefully will come out again at the end of next year.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: He believes the two things that stop actors having successful careers are psychological issues.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we all have those because we're human and lack of technique.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why you go to an acting school or you go anywhere, so you can absolutely hone technique.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be my response to it.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm seeing always talent come to our studios, divine, beautiful young people with open hearts, ready to go.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: But this other thing, I've never seen it so pronounced as uh of late.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, Deb, can I just cut in there and say that that's an aspect which is so important that I had omitted, uh, Kim, because the world has been changing so fast, not just with COVID, but prior.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's been this five-year cycle which we're in at the moment, which is, well, it's could last, who knows, could last all of our lifetimes and beyond.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we're in this cycle of global uncertainty.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the the very nature of performance work, as Kim has alluded to, is risk taking.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it requires a lot, a lot of bungee jumping off clifftops.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: When people, when there's a sort of universal pull over people, uh, they're less inclined to take those kinds of risks, I suppose.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that is, you know, it's an issue.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is an issue.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also I think what's what's interesting is that is the change that you are observing.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yet it's interesting that the need for Aussie actors, both locally and overseas, and it's never been in such high demand as it is right now.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Referring to the success of Heartbreak High as you did, Segrid, it's it's quite extraordinary.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Coming out of a pandemic, these young actors have suddenly, you know, I know that that generation, it's it's touched somebody, it's touched them.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly there are people preparing to bungee jump, if you like, and go back into the vortex of which has always been challenging.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Sigrid, you would have also been having to be brave to embark on the career that you have, which has been so successful, but not everybody is successful.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It can be quite challenging.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kim, are you saying that bravery is still there, or do you think there's a lot more?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, as a training studio, I think my sense of responsibility and everybody that works at that studio, you know, well-being, and I know it's a kind of buzz phrase, it's used everywhere, and what does that actually mean?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think well-being means reducing people's capacity for resilience, for resilience.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think what it really means is holding something with the greatest love and compassion and insight and value of what human beings are doing when they decide to be actors.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I truly believe it's a noble profession because you know, who in their right mind would go into some of these places that writers ask actors to go into, and they do, and they go in with this phenomenal courage and generosity of spirit, because somehow I think actors, if you're a real actor, there's a deep desire to know, to understand, to plummet the depths, to look behind the facade of life, to take nothing for granted, and a great desire to reveal something about the human condition.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And by inference, you always reveal something about yourself.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that paradox, isn't it, Sig?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Acting is not about you, but it's all about you because no writer writes about you, but you've only got yourself every moment you've ever experienced, every thread, shred of imagination, every heartbreak, every joy, all of it comes to the table to create characters that people care about.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And every character, uh, you know, the character that the Juliet that um, you know, uh Lucy Bloggs will play is very, very different from the Juliet that Susie Bloggs will play, uh, because they have, you know, unique, every person is unique, obviously, and they have a unique uh emotional, psychological, intellectual makeup.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they they draw different things uh from the world by virtue of that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say I'm just gonna say one thing, and if an actor doesn't connect into that, the absolute essence of who they are, albeit plain character and you know, create, that's a creation.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: If they don't, we miss something that's so fundamental to why we connect, because it's something that Sig brings to the table.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: That when I watch, I'm taken on this journey, and I absolutely feel and care because she's brought something of herself to this role that is so nobody else could.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely true.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I think the word authenticity comes to light because really, unless you can be authentic with yourself, you can't deliver that story or that plot or that that character, and that's something that Sigurd's obviously mastered and is continuing, as you always say, you're always learning.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, always learning, never mastered actually.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it does put me in mind of what it was, Kim or you who mentioned earlier that uh Larry Moss had said that it was you, Kim, wasn't it, who said that um, you know, work on oneself psychologically is also very, very important because self-revelation is a is a lifelong journey, and some people are never able to uh to go that deep.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and but we're all learning to go deep.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Creative people are all learning to go deeper and deeper and deeper, and it's the only way to keep um uh moving forward, uh, to keep that momentum as a creative is to is to keep going deeper.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my great teachers, Carol Rosenfeld from EHB Studio, who we've also brought to Australia, she says, you know, it's an inevitability that when you act, you will come face to face with yourself.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And Stella Radler, who was also a great teacher of the 20th century, she said, actors have the potential.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now it doesn't mean they realize that potential, but they have the potential to be the most well-rounded individuals in the world by the nature of the work they do.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So often people think that actors are just kind of scatty and neurotic and narcissistic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I would suggest, you know, if you are, you're gonna have a tough time of it.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: You have to find some real grounding in life to do this job.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Very important point, Kim, that you've just raised, because I think that's where the studio is quite an important, in a way, a sanctuary, I've observed, where these actors can hone their skills and develop their strengths.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also, as you say, it's not about narcissism and and sort of look at me.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's much more about the deep dive and trying to understand from where they come so they can then play the roles and be the storytellers.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what a privilege to be able to do that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that does that in spades, Deb?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: If that's one of the things I believe distinguishes 16th Street and has long done, I think the other drama schools are, you know, everyone's catching up now because there's a lot of um discussion about, it's not to call this, but a lot of discussion about self-realisation these days, authenticity.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: But 16th Street has been doing this from the word go.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's had uh its MO is not only to advance the actor's skills, technique, etc., and self-discovery, but it's also advanced to advance the actor's understanding of the world.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um they are not mutually exclusive, they are absolutely interactive and interdependent.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that Kim has taken a really, really important step in promoting that aspect of a learning performance work.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if I could just pop in there, Deb, I know that you um interviewed uh Peter Cooper and Supana, Bastin Cooper, who's now um Peter's wife.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we have this foundation that they are the most generous uh benefactors of.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the two aspects of that are to really give actors a liberal arts education because so much is happening in universities at the moment, and things kind of stripping away from the arts, but also to support ways that they can develop mental, emotional, and I use the word spiritual because I think that's what we're here to understand something much bigger about ourselves, not this just tiny little sense of me and I and all of this thing that can keep us so completely trapped, and they have supported that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so thanks for acknowledging that, Sig.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really proud of the foundation and that contribution we hope to continue to make.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: You should be.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you should be, and and it is very important, as you say, there is an underlying spiritual element to it as well.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I've really observed some of the work that you do at 16th Street is um, you know, I know you get very attached to a lot of the people that come through, and that it's almost like a family, isn't it?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It it really is quite unique in that sense.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see that some of these actors coming through have now, you know, are they recovering from this whole pandemic era?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, they've all been through an extraordinary time in history.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the arts is recovering?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's do you want to go first on that?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, no, don't please, Kim.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Please.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know what?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Storytelling is in our DNA.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's who, it's how we make sense of the world.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe artists will always have a role to play.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I keep, I keep my everything crossed that that is the case, what I just said.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And ensembles coming together with that joint purpose.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And whether you're a gaffer on a film set, you're a director or an actor, or just there for one day, you are a part of something that gives people a respite.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you let's look at what happened through that pandemic.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: We all had a refuge in watching stories, in watching films, in watching television.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And without all of that happening, you know, I think it may have been a tougher pandemic to have gone through.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I am very, very uh optimistic about the future.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think we will always find our way.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just hope that along the way we keep making it the basis of everything is kindness, generosity, and that through the stories we tell and we watch, we just reduce our what at times feels like a fixation on judging, just allowing some kindness and gentleness into our world.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, I think we'll do it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the studio does also provide that wonderful, as I said, sanctuary.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's really important.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: A safe space where people can actually hone their skills.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a credit to you, Kim.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about also what you think young actors need to work on.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is the sort of the main sort of focus?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll obviously it's multifaceted, but what would you say to young actors who are just beginning their little journey up the mountain?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because of these two things, I mean, I I think it's kind of inseparable.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Who I am as a human being, if I'm an artist, it's who I am as an artist.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think developing a healthy and kind relationship with yourself to me is crucial because the Carl Jung said this the degree to which I have developed a relationship with myself is the degree to which I can with others and the world.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that is the first thing I would say.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Be curious, boundlessly curious.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you put curiosity at the core of every day, every moment, I can guarantee you will be as sprightly in your step and your spirit at 65, that's me, as you were at six, because the world we live in is astonishing, it is beautiful, it is fleeting, and every moment I get very emotional because I've lost so many people who've passed away.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know you've had a very loss is something I've known very well, but what it's given me, um I mean, if I could have done without it, believe me, I would have taken that road for sure.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: But it's an inevitability, and I've had a lot of it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the world is just a beautiful, beautiful experience, life and being alive and the relationships that we have, and to nourish those and nurture those in your life so that you can bring that into the way you work.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Develop those things in your everyday life, and then you'll be a joy to work with on set.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sigrid Thornton is known as one of the most glorious people to have in a work environment.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's a mentor to this studio.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: What she shares, she does it because there's a generosity of spirit and an endless curiosity.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Endless lessons.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't have said it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um no one could have said it better than you just did, Kim, uh, in terms of what young would-be performers and you know, already they're performers, as soon as they get to the school, they are.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're actors, but um, and perhaps before as well, a lot of them.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Nevertheless, I I think that the the characteristics or the things that need nurturing haven't really changed that much in, you know, since since the pandemic, since, you know, in the last five years, or generosity, curiosity, kindness, self-kindness, all of those things are still uh are still fundamental to the process of learning how to be a human being, let alone an artist performance.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that, but but never more more, perhaps never more important.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's the same kind of thing that we need to instill in our in our children, in our friends, is is this um uh a positive vibration, positivity about the about the possibilities that still lie ahead of us and that lie in the everyday moment, and and and keeping our glasses half full, that's pretty important.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I do I do want to go back to um uh what you were talking about earlier, Deb, which was storytelling.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, I mean, more and more uh in my own work, I um I consider myself purely and simply a storyteller.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am a conveyor of stories, and it's something that you came to see the lifespan of a fact, Deb, and uh it's a it's loved it.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had a wonderful, wonderful time making that play with with that beautiful group of people.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that the play uh references is the value and importance of storytelling.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it's uh it's it's more complex than that, but the but the fundamental to my character's um MO is is the value of storytelling.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can remember the quote, I might just insert it here because she's she's asking her fact checker, who's this fastidious and rather literal kind of um Gen Z guy, and uh about why he thinks he's doing his job as a fact checker.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Well, we're just we're checking the facts.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, actually, you we're here because we're telling stories, and stories are fundamental to human beings.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, uh, what is storytelling to you?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Well, it's it's comes from the the Greek, uh, you know, to convey a story, to the telling of life or something, whatever the Greek quote is.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is how quickly the memory goes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've just come out of the zone.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I say, and I say back to him is how you organize your life.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Scientists say that life is atoms and forces and fluids and genomes, but we live in stories, events organized to make ourselves known to each other and to history, organized in a way that gives our lives meaning.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Without stories, we are kind of, we have no anchor to our lives.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this has been, you know, human beings and and indeed animals known this since time immemorial.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're always telling stories to each other in whatever way they can they can uh master.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's fundamental.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and human beings have mastered pretty good ways of telling them.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it and none of that has changed.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we are coming out of this sort of no person's land, uh what I think have it, you know, the most positive people amongst us have learned is that that the value and importance of storytelling has never been more pronounced than than now.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: We've just kind of rediscovered it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, Kim, to your point, you're absolutely right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gino, how many people look at the streaming services, look at everybody who was literally glued to the storytellers, which actually I got a lot of actually messages about this podcast, which is ultimately a storytelling platform because it's telling your story or your story.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And how many people said thank you?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because listening and hearing other people's stories gave me great comfort and gave me a sense that I was not alone.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that was really moving for me because I was something, as you know, that started reasonably organically.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the same theory, which I think to your point, Sigrid, is entrenched.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, um, I think well, certainly the funding bodies, and we can talk about that too.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the funding bodies have stepped up, government and otherwise, to say we need to invest in our stories much more.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: We need to um have you know producer offsets.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big movement, which thank goodness, because the arts had such a smashing during that time.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Have you noticed that that is also a change in the way that governments and private bodies and philanthropists are starting to see the value of this role of storytelling, film, streaming, theatre.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's your perspective?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I I think it's it's very early to in these constrained economic times, it's very, very difficult to expect um that things will change overnight in terms of government funding.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is increased awareness of of even even of the economic even importance of you know having storytellers in your midst.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, for example.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Queensland, you know, it's got the gist.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, pretty much.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh, but we see we've seen a change of government.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: That will be, and I I do believe it's a government that is very sympathetic towards the arts, um, thank goodness.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think that that will have a trickle-down effect.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: There has been a lot of damage done, uh, but I think that we'll start to see um an uptick, but it will take time because we are in constrained circumstances.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: We also, as I said earlier, need to be particularly vigilant now because we are we are one of the uh we're we're competing, if you like, for let's for want of a better description, competing in the marketplace with two other major regions, yes, English-speaking production regions, yes, um, namely the states and the UK, of course.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but so we need to be very importantly um focused on the amount of uh sharing that the big screening platforms do with the Australian marketplace, you know, with the marketplace that they're gleaning so much from.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's it, that's an ongoing um discussion that's happening right now.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're we're going to see some, we're gonna see a lot more.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I hope we'll see a lot more transparent discussion about this in the next six months to 12 months and an ongoing.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's important.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, keep in mind there was something else, just slightly going back.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for what you said, Sig.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was very illuminating, but something else I think I should add to that about what young actors um can do.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think I believe in training because I think what, as Larry Moss says, get so good they can't afford not to hire you.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's probably your only insurance, and it's not even a guarantee, but it's your only insurance against um, you know, sitting waiting.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you get very good at something, but it's like any field in life, fall in love with a craft, give it everything you've got.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I love what um Joseph Campbell, a great thinker of the 20th century, said he said, follow your bliss, and he didn't mean that induced by substances.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Dig deep, and if you love something, you'll be willing to give it everything you've got and um make your life mean something, you know.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So commit to it rather than keeping one foot on the shore because you're afraid of failure.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a terrible cost to pay to not do something because of fear of failures there.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's you your chance to lose a great deal if you don't risk.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is very important.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very important for young people to also have that faith, as Siegret did when she was young.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you were probably were you 18 or you were pretty young when you were.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I started performance.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I started professional work when I was 13, but I'd been an actor for years before that too.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been focused on it from probably, you know, early childhood.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Such and what an incredible career.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to that point, um, I think the other thing that I've noted, and I don't know if you girls agree, but the extraordinary um that there seems to be a lot of support for women coming and staying in the industry much more than there used to be.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there is work available.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it used to be, if you're in acting, it was pretty challenging after 30, was it?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or whereas what I'm observing is a lot of, you know, whether it's um, you know, you watch that great UK series, The Split, you know, that they've got all those wonderful women who are acting, you've got, you've got bad sisters on streaming, which is full of the most brilliant, you know, sort of midlife women, um, you know, who are just incredible.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think, is it just that we're noticing it because that's sort of our genre, or do you think there is a change in the way that we're treating and valuing experience in acting?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I think there is a change.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's still uh a fair bit of um in the sort of general global sphere, there's still uh in some cultures, particularly Western cultures, a bit of age isn't going around quite a bit.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm not I'm not referring to show business right now.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm saying that I'm talking about the sort of the kind of a more generalized um uh wash.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that uh for for women of a certain age, if you like, uh the the goalposts have shifted a little bit.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's a much more inclusive um uh sensibility now in terms of women in positions of uh of control, uh producers, directors, that that that field is really, really changing and it's changing fast.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that as soon as we see a shift to a bit, the the crux of it is that we've we've got so we we've lost a lot of time, we've got a lot of time to make up telling stories about women because that's true, gazillions of them that haven't been told.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an untapped field, uh not tapped, but it's it's much less tapped than the field of male-driven stories.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: But not only male-female, um, you know, we we've got um there is a growing and and it's burgeoning sense of the need for inclusiveness, inclusivity.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we we are this is this is sort of having um uh an effect across the board, and and therefore the trickle down is into storytelling.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because we've got to tell these stories about what what does it mean to be inclusive?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: What does that really mean?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where are we where are the gaps?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where are where where where are we um where is the glass overflowing?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Where is it not?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Where you know, these are the stories that we need to tell right now, and we are starting to tell more of them.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and diversity and and and sort of, I mean, it's it, I think it's my observation without being too sunshiny, is there is there is a lot of growth and there is a lot of opportunity.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And as you have both reflected, that things are moving in a better direction and it's opening the gates for more people to embrace because if our storytellers are not diverse, we've got a problem.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, if we're not reflecting those stories.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Kim, have you noticed that in the studio yet?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you're saying?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing that um there is a change in terms of the diversity of the people that are stepping into the studio in terms of I know you also have classes for mature actors as well?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the studio is open to everybody.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: If they, you know, there are certain programs that are audition-based, like we have a full-time program that we're in auditions now for, which starts next year, and that is an audition-based program, so it's open to anybody, and the criterion for that program to get into is both talent and attitude and emotional and um maturity.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and that isn't that's not precluding, it would never preclude anybody.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, inclusive, always.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's always been inclusive.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I've I I just I see life in inclusive terms, and I don't know what that means to kind of go, you've got to have X amount of boxes that you tick here.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's just it's common sense.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think it's any I really just think it's fairly straightforward and common sense.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know it isn't for many people in many situations, but our studio has always been predicated upon.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I believe I believe definitely keep.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what's happening though is that we are understanding that we need to in terms especially in terms of kind of scrap craft skills, we need to understand that um we need um all shapes, you know, sizes, genders, colours, creeds to be trained up because that there has been uh there has been exclusion in uh in some in the kind of broader, there have been minority groups we need to now look at, and some of those groups are no longer minority groups, but we've just got to catch up a little bit.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand that there's a tension there, and there's a lack of discussion about the box ticking uh tension right now, but there is definitely a need for craft skills to be taught so that we can um, for example, train up a new uh talent pool of indigenous folk, um, uh people of colour all over Australia uh who may not necessarily have access to drama schools.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: All of that kind of stuff is happening, it is changing.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, the interesting thing for me, you know, obviously when someone comes to an audition for a full-time program and they're at the very beginning of their journey, they haven't had any training.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Most of them have not had training, but there's something that you can always detect.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: There is just something, and you know, I'm not saying it's that thing where people, you know, ludicrously say he's got or she's got it.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't mean that, but it's just something in how they bring themselves to it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can just feel it, and you know that if you then train with skills, vocally, physically, imaginatively, certain techniques, how to enter the world of the play or the screenplay or character, they've got something that's going to absolutely be able to be trained.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And Sigrid, another thing I was going to ask you, which I think is also important, when you started out, and I think that, you know, obviously we know there's the Me Too movement, and there's been great changes in the way that producers and directors and sets are uh are managed, and accountability to ensure that particularly females are protected and not just females, but but all cast has to be protected.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now the the the um you have to have intimacy coaches if there's romantic scenes.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen a change in the way in the accountability of the way that young actresses in particular or and also young actors um are treated and protected?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And or is that always been because you know, if you look at 20 years ago, I think it was a little different.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, you tell me because it probably massive change, massive change, massive uh amount of um new learning going on amongst all in all workplaces, in fact, of the dangers of you know um of and and the risks that um are entailed with every workplace to everybody's safety if things aren't, you know, uh if there aren't some checks and balances.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I do think there is a um a very positive um greater understanding these days of um uh psychological well-being as well in all workplaces, and I'm not just talking about in performance workplaces or story making, theatre-making workplaces.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's a very positive thing.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it is prov it's a it's a really tender balance because we need to, young act, if we're talking about young actors, we need to, and young humans, we need to train young humans to be resilient, but that's not the same thing as toughen them up.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: So resilience is not the same thing as having a thick skin.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I always like to talk about um actors needing uh needing a thick skin if you want to equate that with resilience, but they need to be extremely thin skinned as well.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: They need to be extremely open, in you know, uh uh in in some ways much more open than than uh um you know a person who goes to work at the bank, for example.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Although I regard openness as one of the one of the great uh glowing uh qualities that I could um, you know, if I if someone's open, I think they've kind of they've got quite a bit sorted out already, I think.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's a change, and I think that we are in transition.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when there's a transition, that this is the thing, the interesting thing with the Me Too movement.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's been there's there's been this massive shift, and and the BLM movement, uh BLM, etc.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's huge and it requires some kind of catching up.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking, I'm not saying things to make excuses for anyone or um for victims, perpetrators, or anyone, but when there is a massive global consciousness shift, it takes time for people to absorb that shift.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes a lot of um a lot of discussion and a lot of open, transparent discussion, really, is what I'm talking about, to kind of get to settle into it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we're in the middle of a kind of earthquake, really, uh, metaphorically speaking.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we description the ground hasn't stopped rumbling.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we we need to um we need to be aware of that, that it's unsettling for all of us, um, and uh, but but that there will be this seismic shift will eventually settle and the landscape will look different.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we're at the in the moment negotiating where the cracks in the ground are and all of that stuff.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, it's it's just a long journey.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, me too was just a a strand of, I always like to call it one leg of the octopus.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, the sexism, you know, the feminist movement really didn't really had this kind of giant gaping hole after the second and so-called third and fourth wave.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and that was kind of in a way, uh, Me Too kind of stepped into that breach and as it's opened up a third and a fourth wave of feminism now, which is much needed and and should be um uh I I I think I would argue discussed um on a level that's broader than me too.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we're starting to do that.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm kind of optimistic.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so too.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's great that the discussions ensued, but as you say, sometimes there's an overreach and then it has to settle back.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in a sense, I think that's what's happening.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, it's slow, but I mean, I interviewed um one of the principals of the Australian Ballet, and she was talking about, for example, the changes in the way women are treated in the ballet, that that's quite transformative.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's across the arts and across all industries, but particularly the arts.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're acting on a set where romance and intimacy is involved, I think there's a lot more accountability maybe than there was 20 years ago.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, women used to be, you were pretty much on your own with intimate scenes.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think that's um it's a useful step, the intimacy coordinator thing.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was bizarre when I first read it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I now I now think it's actually quite so I look back at myself who, and I'm a fairly, I'm I'm kind of, you know, like everybody, I've got my little baby inside me.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did find myself um having to kind of use the um other innate strengths of my personality to kind of to to make everyone feel okay when there was an intimacy being made out.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, and so that I would I felt like I always had to step up and take that responsibility, which wasn't necessarily all mine.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So an intimate coordinator is has a useful role to play, I think.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Kim, so from your perspective, are you seeing some of these aspects um as a positive for actors coming through the system?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's so interesting.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that was an excellent um uh description, uh, uh, an earthquake.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think uh in earth when earthquakes happen, there's a lot of collateral damage.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say at the moment, um, and balance for some reason we don't seem to be hardwired for balance.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very hard kind of line to hit, the middle way and the balance of something.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wonder how we'll come back to will we find that middle ground?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: I hope we do.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think that so that we just um we don't lose sight of something that's very important that could be lost in the process of a revolution and change.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that thing, you know, the thing don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that's fine to do, throw it all out, it's all lousy, none of it works, as opposed to going, this is wonderful to create an environment where actors come to play and then 100%.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: But once again, it's this for me feels like such common sense, you know, how you actually treat someone.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was very blessed when I was an actress.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: I gave it up many years ago, but I had do you remember John Hargrave Siggy?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very well.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful John Hargraves.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had to my first kind of naked scene in bed with him, and he was divine.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: He was funny.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was laughing hysterically in between takes because he just understood what it meant to be in bed with a woman who was meant to be his mistress, and of course, you know, was just scared shitless.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So divine.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of had a blast.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like going to the table and give you gas.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: I could sit in that chair all day with that bloody gas on.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I felt with him.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know good point, Kim.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I take your point.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: What you're saying is we don't want to throw the baby out with bathwater.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to be so self-conscious that we can't engage and we can't connect.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, if you look at to take the extreme, like the Game of Thrones or any of these extraordinary series, which require enormous faith and intimacy and connection.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: If we if we get too self-conscious, which is to your point, Sigret, and to yours, Kim, then we're actually going to lose the essence.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Can I just let you know something?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working at the moment, and I worked on the same play last year with a group of people, a beautiful play called Kid Stakes, written by Ray Lawler.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's the first of the in 1937.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's my grandmother's era, right?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we went in and the work we did on this, and we had a wonderful movie, a choreographer come in and teach these young people about the dance of the times and listen to the music.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: And by the end, these women had fallen love in fallen in love with romance, and these young men felt this sense of chivalry.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was so heavenly, and there was an appreciation for their, probably not their grandparents, but their great-grandparents.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's something where they took away something very, very precious.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the young woman said, Isn't romance just wonderful?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, for me, it was heaven.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: That was the only thing that I lived on when I was young, was romance.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: I adored it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a good point.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to be honest, I think the young, you know, the next generation are not that different.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be honest.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: They all thrive in that romantic.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And just that's another thing too, Deb.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's along the lines of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: The tricky thing with all of this is that performance work, if we this is about performance work, so let's use that as our starting point for a lot of this, I guess.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really about a lot of it finding the rough edges, finding the stuff that doesn't fit, that the square peg that doesn't fit into the round hole, and you know, and exploring the round hole and the square peg.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if we if if all of those pegs fit into all of those holes, you actually haven't got the murky, uh exciting kind of life.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's really it's it's very, very difficult to negotiate these and to smooth out some of these edges that we think are too blunt without, you know, without destroying the the kind of um the the mystery of life that we're telling the story about, one assumes, whatever the story is.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the miss the the mystery, the humour, the tragedy, and the beauty all need to somehow um be der be able to be derived by the viewer or the the the experiencer of the story.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's something about the mess, exactly what you said.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where we have to be careful that we don't try and shave everything off to the point that it becomes so kind of sanitized.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sanitized.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to say that's exactly I I I actually love on that note.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Both of you, that is a wonderful way to end the interview because I actually think it's honoring the messiness, the grittiness, the authenticity of life, because as storytellers, that's really what it is a privilege to do.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Secret, we were just chatting and we were talking about how important having mentors and people come out and actually teach and people of great uh, I suppose, skills, such as the ones that Kim has organized to come out from to 16th Street from all over the world, really.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to talk to me a little bit about that and how important you think it is?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we were talking after we stopped recording, and I was saying that's something that I really did want to touch on because we're we were talking about 16th Street, and I wanted to share the the um the story about Kim being an actual trailblazer in this area.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there used to be uh a serious dearth of um so-called masterclass, call them what you will, um uh, that is to say, classes that enable professional actors such as myself, people who've been in the field for any given period but are actually earning a crust from it, to continue to hone their skills.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been able, by virtue of my long-term friendship with Kim and which dates back to before 16th Street, I've been able to tap into what Kim's been doing quite early.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I really do have to say it's changed the course of my creative life.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people like Larry Moss, whom you mentioned, and Elizabeth Kemp, but Elizabeth Kemp most particularly, really did, you know, there's not very many people I could say that about, and certainly not very many teachers I could say that about.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, but I honestly believe and would say it to anybody, that the wonderful late Elizabeth Kemp did change mine.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that was because she opened up pathways into my uh physical, intellectual, emotional uh makeup uh that I had not tapped before.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't been able to identify them and amalgamate them in the same way before.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: She enabled me to um map my life and um and feed it more directly into my creative life.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is going to sound so esoteric.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really describe the process of transition that I underwent.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it is it has fundamentally changed the way that I look at my work and the way that I approach my work.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope it's made me a better actor.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but you see, Kim was the first person to do this.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have any access.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now there are a lot of other schools, and it thank goodness also our our performance union, M E double A, is doing it too, bringing out teachers.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: But Kim was the first to do it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Kim has worked out now, has a massive international network of master teachers from all over the world, and she continually brings them out for us to be able to access them.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this is but has been an enormous asset, not to be uh diminished in any way.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's really been an extraordinary asset to the performance community.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, in in addition to training up new actors, she's training professional actors and enabling them to continue to move forward creatively and continue to reinvent themselves.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a massive achievement.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why Kim, you're so revered by so many of the actors.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know Deborah Lee Finesse is also a huge, well, she's a friend of yours, but she's also a huge fan of what you do.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not dissimilar, like that notion of bringing out the best that you can bring to the the Australian acting world, that takes a lot of effort and a lot of how have you navigated that.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and I know you've got some pretty exciting people coming next year.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could talk to us about that.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I think it is, Deb?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever you want something and you have to go out to try and get it, the chances are you might get a no.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think I've ever allowed no to be the thing that would stop me from trying to get a yes.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I just have that attitude to life.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, like I'll talk about Willem Defoe, who we've been in discussions for really three years, and then of course we went through the pandemic.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing a Buddhist retreat in Italy, not a kind of shonky place to be doing a in just outside of Florence.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Very nice, yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: A very nice location.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um there was an open day of this particular retreat, and I looked across the space, and there was Willem Defoe with his beautiful Italian wife, and he was so unassuming.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when we went up at the end of the open day and the talk that it was, his shoes were next to mine.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I just sat down to put on my shoes and we started talking.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said, By any chance, Willem, would you consider coming to Australia to teach?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Well, funnily enough, I do do some teaching.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I would be very open to discussing that with you.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we've been in dialogue about that now for three years since that retreat.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just the willingness to go up and I know it's called networking.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: In my day as a kid, I used to just go around the neighborhood and invite people to come and see things that, you know, I would put on with some friends, a little play, or I'd just go and chat to the local shopkeeper.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was early days, and then eventually she gave me some free bickies.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: But that was probably what they call early kind of childhood networking.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: It just felt to me easy to do because you have an opportunity of meeting people and getting to know them.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think just a bit of hoodspur, Deb.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: My mum.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the way you so-called network, if that's what it is, Kim, is never uh there's there's absolutely not a tinge of cynicism about it, which is associated with networking.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and what all what all it seems to me you're doing is to bring is is bringing your force of nature, spirit, to uh to others.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's it's it's inspiring.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: It inspires others to want to work with you.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I really mean that most genuinely.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why you've got this brilliant network.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: You really do.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And people, and people also, you know, you're very caring, you're very compassionate, you're very generous.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that you are the essence of 16th Street Acting Studio, and I think that's important to acknowledge.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also, people who have joined or been involved in any way, shape, or form, you're somebody that, you know, has has made your mark and and continues to do so, as Sigrid rightly points out.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I look forward to seeing what you do next, and you'll have to keep our listeners in touch with all the exciting news of 16th Street Actors Studio.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Jeb.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just say one thing, just that I am very blessed.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, in the past life with some of my karma, I must have killed a small village.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I also have accrued some incredible karma because I have had the can the most beautiful human beings in my life who um I am so grateful for.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that includes all the people who've worked at 16th Street and today the two of you.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing a little of the story of this studio.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've loved it.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, girls.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely conversation.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you both so much.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: You two and hear your words.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: My beautiful girl.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, darling.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Love dear.