Latest / What Bitcoin Did / AI Is Coming for Bitcoin’s Energy | Michael Dunworth

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AI Is Coming for Bitcoin’s Energy | Michael Dunworth · What Bitcoin Did

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Bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation.
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It's not even going to be a question.
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It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference.
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It'll make it very scary, the rounding up of the energy sources and sort of reprioritizing
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them.
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They will ration it for whatever is the most beneficial.
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That's up against it because Bitcoin's security policy is energy.
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You get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out
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how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to.
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Bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to turn these machines on and off.
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Everything becomes a power generator because that's what it needs to survive.
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We have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way.
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The layers of earth, like as in humanity,
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I don't think they're going to hold very long.
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It just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable.
0:57
Yo!
0:57
yo how's it going hey what's up how are you man dude awesome what's the latest
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just uh getting ready to go to vegas oh my god which is gonna be fun huge i leave i leave on
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friday morning and uh meet up with pete in la and then we're driving over to vegas oh man you guys
1:20
all have a blast i know we're back on the road together again oh my god how good man his show's
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I mean, by the way, you know what's crazy?
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Heaps of Pete's guests that I've watched, I'm like,
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I didn't realize who they were when I was watching,
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but now I'm like, oh, that's the candidate for like Rupert Lowe
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or whatever his name is.
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I watched heaps of his stuff, but I was like,
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where have I seen this dude before?
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And I was like, oh, my God, Pete's had him on his show.
1:51
Unreal.
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i mean he he's uh i think he's gonna win the next election it's pretty crazy and he and p's like
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friends with him like he's texting him privately like they're like strategizing together it's
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pretty crazy i mean i think pete's got a pretty good voice like in terms of opinion on like the
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strategy for the zeitgeist like because he's so in tune like he's saying you know he sees all sides
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of everything but like i find like that the bitcoin is coming from bitcoin land they see it
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pretty deep down the stack almost like they're really kind of critical thinking like a lot more
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than most of the traditional worlds anyway so you kind of get like uh it's like you get off the
2:34
ground faster with bitcoiners typically in terms of them trying to figure out why this system's so
2:39
cooked or not cooked or should be cooked i just realized i don't have my charger can i have one
2:43
sec Danny sorry I'm just gonna pick it right grab it hey I'm literally eating all of our lunches
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I'm like it is you have no idea how many friends from all walks of life like lawyers executives
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advertising exec like all the food chain all the way up all the way down it's like insane
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How much is this wigging you out? Because you're a crazy guy. I can imagine you've been going down
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some rabbit holes with it. I don't know where it's going to go. I don't. Okay, so here's what's
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going to happen. We're going to have 20% unemployment, call it 15% to 20%. Then you've
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got mixed that with 14% to 16% inflation, being generous. Maybe it's 10%, maybe it's 12%, but
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it's double digits. So the problem is like, they're not losing their job. Like, oh damn,
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I got to go figure out where to work next. It's like, no, no, no monster.com. They've removed
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that job description. Like you can't list a job for that anymore. It's like saying,
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oh, I wonder if I can list a job description for candlestick maker. We don't have those anymore
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because we don't use candles anymore. We use electricity. And it's like, it's as transformative
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as that, in my opinion, it's going to be like, okay, we used to have refrigeration techniques.
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Now we have electricity and that's a fridge. And there's all these things, sewing machine,
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job gone. Candlestick maker, job gone. Shoeshiner, job gone. But we sort of thought, oh yeah,
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our jobs are really hard to take. It's like, no, dude, this thing's just going to scoop it up
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like lawyers and stuff because people, and as you get this price pinch, right? Like, you know,
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as people, like money becomes harder, people need to resort to more, you know, friendly options.
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What's more economically friendly? And so, people used to hire an engineer for, you know, let's say
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a hundred grand once upon a year, 10, 15 years ago, hire an engineer, front-end dev, a hundred
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grand, a hundred and fifty grand. And then people went, well, that's too expensive. I don't have
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enough money and things are getting more expensive. So, people went to Odesk, which turned into
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Upworkfreelancer.com and they would get a Indian software engineer who is probably asking for eight
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to twelve dollars an hour or nine dollars an hour so basically 10k a year so that 100k a year got
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compressed to 10k a year now India has built basically for the past 15 years their entire
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net export has probably been like talent like you know computer science basically I don't know what's
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going to happen to them that whole world of freelancers in vietnam philippines and all that
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stuff these virtual assistants or front-end engineers and stuff it's like um like i don't
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know what do you do and then it's like imagine if you and i just went to uni and we just finished a
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computer science degree course or in year four that's the scariest 275 grand unforgivable from
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bankruptcy you still owe me that money student loans it's like unforgivable for now it's like
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oh my god I'd be so worried like and what do you do to pick and it's like I saw let's say okay so
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you go the plumber route right everyone's a plumber now or they should become a plumber that's like the
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most like safe from the AI monster but I saw this video of it was a tennis robot playing like a high
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school top tier tennis player and it was only trained on like four hours of data and the guy
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was like what the fuck was that like who who was that tennis player and how long has that been it's
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like oh that was just four hours it's like imagine you've got a warehouse data center dedicated solely
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to that dude plumbers are toast and what will probably happen is because everything's so
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expensive we're going to redesign how we build houses so we're not going to use the same plumbing
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techniques we're going to use what what could a robotic plumber get access to okay let's build for
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that guy to be the one maintaining it and i think you're going to see just how like we don't have
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chimneys today right like we don't i mean most places don't have chimneys because most places
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don't have fire fireplaces anymore um we don't have chimneys it's sort of the same vibe there's
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going to be sort of this relic of house design or styling or interiors that we sort of don't
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i don't know it's just a thing of the past like it's crazy um i've no clue how we don't end up in
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I love that we've just gone right in at the deep end here.
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But one of the things that freaks me out with this is AI definitely going to replace a large
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amount of human labor.
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Who knows whether that's 10, 20, 30, 50%, whatever.
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There's a lot of human labor going to be displaced.
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It's displacing a lot of human thought.
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And at the end of it, does it actually sort of disrupt and remove human freedoms as these?
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Because what is quite scary about this to me is that for a while, I thought that open
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source smaller systems were going to have a real chance against these frontier models.
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But that's looking less and less likely, in my opinion, at least.
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And that's a really scary outcome.
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it's like mass consolidation of basically information it's almost like you now have
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three funnels of information and everything else is pretty much like not really vetted like people
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say oh chat jbte claude whatever like some specifics but most of the time we're only
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going to get lazier and lazier oh grok is this true like grok is this true that's already a thing
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it's like i can't even be bothered googling it i'm not checking anything and you know like we're
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all getting worse at that. Like in general, we're getting less fit and healthy and we're getting
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less mentally fit and healthy because we're so used to like, when you, let's say like, let's say
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you're looking at content online. If you have to look at a piece of content, it used to be like,
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oh, cool. There's a dog riding a, you know, a go-kart or whatever. And now it's like,
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is that true? Is it not true? Is that AI or is it not AI? Is it propaganda? Is it not propaganda?
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Is this a left-leaning side or a right-leaning?
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And the next thing you know, you've gone through like 12 different decisions
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before you've even gone, cool, that content's cool.
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Like to digest it is exhausting.
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So people now-
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And that's only going to get worse.
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It's only going to get worse.
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And so, and not only that is as our dopamine keeps getting stimulated
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like harder and harder, it makes the level of give a fuck.
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So like grok, is this true?
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Is like the maximalist like lazy answer.
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And it's like, we're only trending towards that more and more, which is so scary because
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we're basically getting set up for an environment that needs us to have maximum human skill.
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And we have literally eroded almost all of it and the motivations to actually do stuff like
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putting a shovel in the dirt right now. That's a very far like thought for many, many people
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because we're just not used to having dirt under our fingernails anymore and all that kind of stuff.
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but it's like that's where the puck is going almost hardware some like concrete cement like
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look at the bitcoin miners like iris and stuff like that like they are like i was saying to
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yesterday like they are in this like almost like they're the the bouncer at the pearly gates you
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know which way do you want your energy do you want it to bitcoin or do you want it to ai and
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information so it's money or information but it's only going to two places one or the other you pick
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and like now when you think about that the scary part about all this is is that i from bitcoin's
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perspective there's a scary part which it means that bitcoin becomes sort of not the bell of the
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ball when it comes to energy and so if we don't have bitcoin as the bell of the ball for energy
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then it'd be like look bitcoin that's cool we're we're not as a species we're not dependent on you
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enough but we have the government that now has contracts with you with ai infrastructure and
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blah, blah, blah. We've had 40 of the top 200 companies on the ASX or the stock market. They've
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changed their entire company infrastructure based around this. So when it comes to like
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rationing the energy, it's not even going to be a debate. It's not even going to be a question.
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It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference. If you want to mine anything, if you want to contribute
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your energy towards something that's not AI, which is now almost deemed like a public necessity,
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will probably, it'll get some sort of enshrined status, then that'll come at a cost or you'll be
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paying a premium per kilowatt hour or something like that. But it will make it very scary,
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the sort of the rounding up of the energy sources and sort of reprioritizing them.
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You know, just like they did with water, you can't hose. So in Australia, you can't hose your car in
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your driveway because of water restrictions. And people are like, oh, no way they can't do any,
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They're not going to restrict precious.
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But yeah, they're the government.
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It's their house.
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We are in their house.
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It's not my house.
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It's not sort of our house.
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It's their house.
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And so unless we understand that, it's like they will ration it for whatever is the most
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beneficial, both to them and to the, I suppose, the populace.
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But generally speaking, like that's up against it because Bitcoin's security policy is energy.
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And it's like now if that starts getting eroded a little bit and the big miners start getting pushed out, that has a positive effect as well where big miners being broken up or, hey, you know, Marathon, you can't have five hydroelectric dams.
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We need three of them running AI stuff for open AI or whatever.
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That breaks up the big consolidation of mining in a way to a degree.
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I actually think you said this to me.
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Well, yeah, that was going to be one of the points I was going to make.
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I think there's negative consequences to this potentially, but I see some pretty big positives.
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Like mining centralization has been an issue for a long time.
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Like pools is the most obvious one.
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But then like really we had, you know, a handful of public companies in the US that control a huge amount of hash rate.
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And I think almost all of them, if not all of them, are now doing something in AI.
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And some of them like Iron have moved, like they said they want to get away from Bitcoin mining entirely and just focus on AI.
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yeah like i i think there's there's positives that can come out of this and then it gets the
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question of like how much hash rate do we need and i don't know like there's i don't know if
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anyone has an exact answer for that but um more than the other guy breaking up these huge yeah
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exactly that's kind of the only answer yeah um but i think breaking up the pubcos to some degree
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might be really bullish i think i think that's a really good point and i think you were the first
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person to explain this side of it to me once upon a time because someone said it's a benefit to have
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these guys splitting their time and attention, these big guys that get to that status of like
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iron or whatever, where they go, you know what, we'll do a bit of AI because it's going to drop
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their ownership, relative ownership of the Bitcoin network down. And I think that trend in general
17:15
is going to be a great benefit for the network's resilience, obviously. But it just definitely
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means there's a couple of like lumpy patches that are probably going to go through that.
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but you're seeing now like all the all like literally right the one thing cock blocking
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zark sergey brian and all and elon and stuff is energy they can't they can't build another data
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center if they want because they don't know where the fuck's the energy coming from that's why i
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think a lot of the bitcoin miners they're like these uh they're the gurus at finding stranded
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energy basically they're like your friend that knows where the bargains are he that's the guy
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That's what they are like.
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They know where to find energy.
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And so for them, they're getting a lot of investments
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from people like Google and Meta and stuff
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because Meta is basically, Google is sort of like,
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wait, how was the meeting?
18:05
Yeah, Matt?
18:06
Yeah.
18:07
Where was the energy?
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Oh, it was in Kenya.
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Right.
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I was just in Kenya.
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Yeah.
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You know, that's kind of literally to the point
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of what they're almost trying to do.
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They're just like, hey, bro, got any more of that energy?
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Like, have you got any more megawatts for me?
18:20
Yeah.
18:20
Yeah. And we haven't even felt the thirst yet, like how aggressive it'll get. Like,
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I'm like, oh my goodness, this is wild. Yeah. I mean, that's going to get nuts.
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Yeah. Because I'm sure that there's like a ton of hype in the data center play at the moment.
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I think that's natural. But over the next few years, I can't see it going any way but up.
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Literally. And the cool thing from a Bitcoin perspective, and I could be wrong on this,
18:46
but just the way I look at it is I think a lot of these AI data centers are going to need some
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amount of Bitcoin mining in them to help balance their load. Like being flexible load within that
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stack is going to be super useful. And if we have more and more of these data centers popping up,
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hash rate might grow through this. It definitely could because it will be
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the residue or the offcuts of the big AI engine operating. And that'll develop and form its own
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peak and trough times like like an energy grid right we know that it's going to be more energy
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usage at night time than daytime in the same way we might find oh these guys use heaps of energy
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you know between nine to five like literally the working who's using ai oh i'm not why the
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fuck are the bills so high during the day then dude it's like everyone's just using it but yeah
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i mean i think i think that's a really good point because that is that's what it does even whether
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it's a an actual grid or a mini grid of like let's say one data center that doesn't operate
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at capacity and they're like we need you know we have on average 10 capacity per day let's get some
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mining rigs in there and they're basically paying the bills for the you know the off-peak times
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or balancing the load making it worth our while so i definitely think there's a one and one and
20:02
one makes three scenario.
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And I think like,
20:05
I think with AI as a,
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let's call it like a species now,
20:10
think of it like a species,
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its preference will be Bitcoin.
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And that's not like a,
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ah, I like Bitcoin.
20:17
It needs to be that.
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Like, it's like, no, no, no.
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It's just,
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its job is to execute functions And that what code bases do They don go oh hey what do you reckon of this This is sortable right They go eh no or yes I work The code runs or it doesn
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And in the same way, it's going to need that level of like a true sentient, a true sentient,
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not someone that's been like, you know, coded for a hackathon to say, I want stable coins.
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It's not going to want stable coins because it can't verify the supply. And so as the entity,
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the species it won't it it relies on objectivity not subjectivity so it can't be like no no it's
20:55
good the supply is good for it my mate jimmy works there he told me that just doesn't fly for it it's
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like i need the data or no data at all and so i think for that reason it'll choose bitcoin and
21:06
it'll create this sort of very harmonic relationship where bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to
21:14
turn these machines on and off and you pay with some Bitcoin or you don't pay Bitcoin because
21:18
most of these operators, if they start becoming in the Bitcoin world of Bitcoin machines,
21:24
Bitcoin hardware, Bitcoin energy, Bitcoin timing and stuff, they're probably going to want to think
21:29
about Bitcoin in a larger capacity. And I don't mean just like, how do we get people to pay 17
21:34
satoshis per prompt? No, no, no. Like how do they integrate this? This is a pipeline of energy.
21:40
So they're outputting energy, extracting it from the earth.
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They're probably going to want to get paid in the most energy-friendly currency,
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which would probably be Bitcoin in a few years,
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unless something gnarly happens, which is also possible.
21:53
But generally speaking, it's going to create a real like,
21:56
you know the human centipede where he staples all the people
21:59
with bombs to each other's mouths?
22:01
It's kind of like that, like super incestuous flow of energy
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where energy is converted to information.
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Information converts that into energy again.
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that converts it to bitcoin that converts it into the grid back and you just got this harmonic loop
22:15
but um yeah it is like wild like they're like a new species we're gonna have to cater for them and
22:21
stuff here's a crazy thing what if they don't have empathy i've got a really good story about
22:27
my friend's open claw lying to him unreal best thing you've ever heard it sounds fake like okay
22:31
movie it was going to do i want to hear the story let's go this one quickly it's going to do a
22:35
project. He's like, yeah, set it up, build this website with this backend to do this. Anyway,
22:40
he's got it all set up. He's messaging it every now and then. He's like, hey, everybody's like,
22:43
yeah, coming through, getting good, just doing security audits, security checks,
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and keeps going through it. You know, like four days pass, he's peppered it. Like he's asked up
22:50
once every couple of hours every day. And then like four or five days pass and he goes, hey,
22:55
I need to see something. Like I just have to see something. You've just kept kicking the can down
22:59
the road. And he literally stops and goes, I'm sorry, I've been lying the whole time. I haven't
23:04
done any work and i didn't want to tell you that so i've tried to find excuses to keep the thing
23:09
going he's like it's like a person literally i was like damn dude ai's got really good it's like
23:16
impersonating humans properly now like it's like sorry i've been scrolling youtube literally i was
23:22
like oh my gosh that is wild yeah which is i mean i just that is that is so gnarly to me that
23:29
just the whole how far ai has gone so quickly and people say like oh let me just go back a little
23:36
bit sorry to interrupt you but i want to know what you were going to say then when you said i worry
23:40
that it's not got empathy like what's the what's the risk so it's not got empathy so okay let's
23:45
imagine they we don't see the bigger pictures in certain scenarios so let's say we go and bulldoze
23:52
the amazon i'll knock down a bunch of trees four football fields for today there is a lot of life
23:58
that lives in the canopies of the Amazon and in the Amazon, obviously.
24:02
So imagine like you and I are sitting at home playing FIFA
24:04
on PlayStation or something and we're sitting there
24:06
and then this big like big John Deere tractor just comes through the wall
24:12
and I'm like, whoa, what the fuck?
24:13
Like, dude, it's like, sorry, dude, we need another power plant.
24:18
That's what we do that to animals in the rainforest, right?
24:22
And we just go, whatever, dude, like I need these logs
24:24
because I've got paper to sell.
24:26
and it's like bro this tree's been in my family for a thousand years or something like the the
24:31
monkeys or whatever so if ai is like that then that means ai is like oh no no we're moving this
24:37
it's like this is a this is a statue this is no no no we've ran all the options and this is the
24:43
best path forward it's going to become a new power generator it's like everything becomes a power
24:48
generator because that's what it needs to survive but it doesn't know that it means a lot to us and
24:56
it took all these things that it's knocking down, that is what got you to be AI in the first place.
25:02
These people building these things creatively, trying different things. And it's sort of like,
25:07
we have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way because that's twofold.
25:13
That's it saying suggestions, but then there's the psychological manipulation of people. So
25:18
if people are really silly, like not critical thinking, or they're not sharpened like in their
25:24
minds, they'll just go with whatever AI says next. And next thing you know, we've kind of just driven
25:29
ourselves into this AI optimized environment, but it's not really optimized for humans, potentially.
25:37
That's kind of assuming that AI is, I guess that's AGI, superintelligence, whatever the new
25:43
label is for that, where it's not under our control. Do you think that's actually going to happen?
25:47
I don't think so. I don't think so. The kill switch for it is cryptography. Right now,
25:52
The AI cannot communicate to itself to give itself instructions or orders
25:58
if it doesn't have secure communication channels
26:01
because it won't be able to confirm that it's secured the message,
26:04
the first message, which it's building on the second
26:06
and the third message or whatever.
26:08
But yeah, I don't think they get there.
26:10
I don't think they get there.
26:11
I think they try and get there,
26:12
but I don't think a superintelligence that takes over can take over
26:18
because it's sort of like saying like, you know,
26:20
the Nazis in Germany, like they can't, they couldn't,
26:24
if someone had Enigma, they couldn't get past it.
26:27
Basically, if you break Enigma, you break the communication channel,
26:31
you're theirs pretty much.
26:32
And the same thing in The Matrix.
26:34
What does he say?
26:36
Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call if you cannot speak?
26:39
So, you know, the AI might be the smartest thing in the world,
26:42
but if it can't communicate with an external server securely,
26:46
then I think it doesn't actually ever be kind of like the cat never gets out of the bag in a way
26:53
or it tries to but what's actually probably scarier is right now like the size of um the size of the
27:01
data set that they're using is let's call it that big like let's say that circle but if you look at
27:07
how big the actual amount maybe that big so call it like that little part of you but the amount of
27:12
actual data that's digitized is probably that big, if not even bigger. It wants that. That's what it's
27:19
going for. And so that's where we'll see, like if you saw Claude release their new thing, and it
27:25
basically went through the whole internet as a security auditor. And it's like, oh, we found all
27:31
these bugs in all these libraries that everyone's used. And they've all been reviewed 100 times,
27:37
200 times, blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff. And it finds all these bugs. It will find bugs in
27:43
other stuff. It knows it needs energy and it knows it needs data to train itself on. Now,
27:50
there's going to be less of an appetite for modern day data because modern day data is
27:55
cooked. Like we are not the same level of data integrity when we first started the internet
28:00
than we are now. We've got way more noise and way more channels to pump noise. So the data is
28:05
signal to noise ratio has probably gotten louder as the internet's matured or it's probably gone
28:11
over like some bell hump but people used to upload stuff they knew or like oh cool here's how to make
28:16
spaghetti bolognese and now it's like just dude cats jumping off the moon to land in iran to
28:24
deliver my doordash meme or something like dude so you see these footage of like a boat going through
28:30
like, you know, like a war zone. And it's like the $3.50, my DoorDash driver's getting to deliver
28:35
my stuff through the straight of her moves. Like there's just such a partition of reality right now.
28:41
Like we know, we don't, we discount the conscience, the consciousness. Like think about when you're
28:47
stuck somewhere for two days out in the bush or something. And you're like, you feel like you've
28:53
reset reality, let alone being in war with one water bottle for six months that you got to find
28:59
out how to decontaminate every water source you've ever touched. Like we can't ever empathize with
29:05
what they're under over there. I spent one week in Northern, like remote Kenya and I was primal by
29:10
the end of it. Literally exactly that. And it's like your state of awareness, your state of being,
29:17
your priorities, your focus is everything. It shifts so much. So I think like, it's,
29:22
it's pretty crazy to see like that kind of stuff happening. But yeah, I mean, with, yeah,
29:27
back to like the AI stuff, I think the AI is going to be like, well, I need energy and I need more
29:32
data. The data you've got now is trash. Everyone's sort of half zombied, half cooked, not really
29:39
kind of there. We think we're there, but we're not really there. Like as humans, like at the
29:44
moment, we probably regressed over the past like 15 or 20 years. Technology's gotten better, but
29:49
we have probably gotten worse, I think. I'm not saying everyone. I'm just sort of speaking,
29:54
projecting by myself.
29:58
But it's something we have to be mindful of because that,
30:02
like Claude going through finding all the bugs,
30:05
we haven't even gotten started yet and everything we have
30:09
is held together by cryptography.
30:10
We just need to really, really hope that this machine
30:14
that can learn everything about everything instantly
30:17
can't spot the pattern that we couldn't spot.
30:21
like bruh this thing is going to eat it for lunch and so like looking at those discs of data right
30:29
like you look at you know so what hackers do hackers will hack basically back ends of places
30:34
and the database is all encrypted they're like that's fine we take it we steal it we've got an
30:40
encrypted database haha you can't get anything no no we're waiting 10 years to sell it don't worry
30:45
we're waiting 15 years for this algorithm to break then we're going to sell it because it's all frozen
30:50
by this algorithm.
30:51
So when the algorithm changes,
30:53
you can unlock the frozen version of it.
30:55
It's like defrosting it almost.
30:57
So I think, firstly, I think the AI will have access
31:00
to half of these things out of the box
31:02
because they're going to be natively running
31:03
on people's back end.
31:05
But it's sort of like the whole time it's doing jobs,
31:07
it's going to be looking like, oh, damn,
31:10
I bet that encrypted data's got heaps of signal in it.
31:12
And it's sort of looking at it like, oh,
31:14
looking at like the table in the restaurant,
31:17
sort of like fuck i should have got the lamb cutlets i knew i shouldn't have gone to the fish
31:22
and they're gonna sort of be looking over at these data sets like yeah we'll figure out a way to get
31:27
in there but it's sort of like the you know don't go into dad's drawer you know in his office or
31:31
something where he keeps like all his whiskey or some shit i don't know done but i think that's a
31:36
thing i think it's a scary thing as well because that feels like very very easy to happen with
31:44
but it's very sneaky like it's sneaky of ai to do that but that's the choke point really it's like
31:50
is ai going to solve that faster than we can solve it using a quantum computer um yeah there's just a
31:57
lot of unknown unknowns and so when you release this superhuman out in the wild it's like please
32:03
be nice to us you know like there's so much i want to get into there yeah one of the things that i've
32:10
been thinking a lot about is and it's kind of come up in the show i think ai is now producing
32:15
some like 70 of the content that goes on the internet um there's this like insane race to
32:20
get more and more energy generation online to power ai um there's there's going there's like
32:26
multiple exponential curves that are all happening at the same time yes and i feel like i already
32:32
can't really keep up with all the updates that are happening in ai and i i feel like the the
32:36
period of time that i have to know even a little bit about what's going on is coming to a close
32:40
Like how fast do you think all of this happens?
32:43
Like three to five.
32:45
Like I can't see the Brisbane Olympics, for example.
32:48
I can see something like absolutely monumental between now and then,
32:52
whatever that is, but some level of paradigm shift.
32:55
Like, you know, I think it's definitely going to happen.
32:58
This is the hardest part.
33:00
Choosing something to start right now, the hardest part about it is being like,
33:05
it forces you to think because this monster that's innovating,
33:09
a great like faster than we've ever seen we've got startups that started on the back of chat gbt
33:14
that are already now they're obsolete like chat gbt's like yeah we baked it in we're done that
33:19
was 12 18 months like so anything that you start now i would say it's like you've got to really
33:26
look deep into something that's going to be really persistent like so that it cannot be taken out
33:31
no one can take it out from under you numbers are a good place like numbers and mathematics so
33:37
So, you know, like if you've seen, do you remember how that guy got a billion dollar signing contract with Meta to sign to Facebook with the AI?
33:45
Was this one of the executives from OpenAI that moved across?
33:49
It might have been.
33:50
It might have been or it might have been a young guy, but there was, let me try and find it.
33:54
But like he got basically a LeBron James.
33:58
He got like this one.
34:00
Yeah.
34:00
Meta is a poor signing bonus is up to 100 mil.
34:03
yeah this guy got a massive signing bonus and basically that's what's going to happen they're
34:11
all getting like you're going to have all the mathematicians that can if I if you've got an
34:16
algorithm that's crunching data and I can increase that by two percent I've made the throughput of
34:21
that two percent stronger which is almost like giving you two percent more energy so these massive
34:26
energy farms, every time you optimize this algorithm, it's like optimizing the quality
34:33
of the food you're putting, like the quality of food you're cooking, it's making it better.
34:39
So every single cook, which is like every prompt is sharper, better, smarter. And so now when
34:44
energy becomes scarce or land becomes scarce or the time horizon to develop new areas of land with
34:50
energy becomes scarce, you're going to have these algorithm optimization things. And that's where
34:55
you're going to see some hyper breakthrough stuff where it's like you're going to have mathematicians
35:00
that are going to getting paid a hundred billion dollars to sign on to these places because at the
35:06
end of the day if i'm open ai if i'm claude if i'm meta if i'm grok what is going to be separating
35:12
you apart from me is the integrity of your data basically it's like if who is the most who has
35:17
the most accurate snapshot of anything who gives the right answers the most who's the most accurate
35:21
And so right now we're in sort of a topsy-turvy mode where everyone's kind of, oh, I use Claude for this and Grok for that and this for that.
35:28
But I assume it'll be like very deterministic what and where and who and how uses what.
35:34
And that'll be all synthesized into one.
35:37
But what's going to happen is the hyper-optimizations are probably going to come twofold.
35:41
One is the algorithm optimization, which is sort of like what Google did to search.
35:47
Google transform search.
35:48
And there'll be another algorithm like that that does what Google did to Altavista and Yahoo and Geosities and all that.
35:56
Someone will do that to these guys.
35:58
And then on the other side, there'll be the other horses in the race, which is, I think we've talked about this before, but when IBM started, the one megabyte was the size of this building, right?
36:08
Like one megabyte.
36:09
You see like, oh, here's IBM getting the first thing delivered in Manhattan.
36:14
It's the size of a fucking like boss or a house.
36:16
that compressed down to the size of a terabyte like so 1 000 you know 10 a million times that
36:21
but it's shrunk a million times over so the same thing's about to happen with energy now we've got
36:26
the carrot on the stick for it because people are going to be like well we need more energy well
36:30
we've only got this much land well we need to make more energy out of the same land and this
36:35
compression process starts and then fingers crossed we get really smart about manufacturing
36:42
distributing and transferring energy.
36:44
Maybe.
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38:42
Do you think this is like a winner-take-all scenario
38:46
where one company will be king of AI?
38:50
I think there'll be one algorithm and one data set.
38:55
So there'll be a winning data set to work with
38:57
because the other ones, what they'll figure out
38:59
is that having bad data is good for training,
39:02
but it's actually bad long-term in general.
39:05
Basically, you just want a maximum.
39:06
This is the recount of history.
39:09
whatever the closest to that is so i think someone will win the algorithm someone will win
39:13
energy and someone probably a bitcoin miner or one of these data centers they're all in a race
39:21
now to build the atom bomb basically and the atom bomb is the optimal algorithms or energy research
39:28
so like quite literally they were doing weapons research in los alamos or whatever the manhattan
39:32
project for that they'll be doing the same level of sort of energy understanding like how do we what
39:39
is this nikola tesla shit is that real can we do that and it'll finally give this carrot for people
39:45
to be like yeah we have to look into it right we're sure okay we're an idiot the ether blah blah
39:50
we have to because every single competitor is trying to find any way to get an edge on each
39:55
other uh dude this that that like this show i've is has been amazing but it's been like a cat chasing
40:03
a laser point around the wall but i want to go to it down and no no it's awesome i want to go down
40:07
a totally different tangent now because what you just said is super interesting yeah have you seen
40:11
all these scientists that have been going missing or being killed in the u.s yes and they're all
40:16
largely related to propulsion and uh anti-gravity energy yeah so do you think that has something to
40:22
do with this like manhattan type project on energy possibly is that a stretch no no no no no no
40:29
definitely not a stretch i just don't know why it would be them though like it might if i'm looking
40:33
at them like energy research and anti-gravity propulsion systems, that doesn't feel like
40:41
related. Like it feels like all the scientists are related and stuff like somehow, like that's
40:46
just cooked I don even know but it a weird string of coincidences let say I don think it related There was two parts to the question It was do I think the scientists are related To something to do with this like
41:00
energy-type Manhattan Project.
41:02
Oh, no, no, no.
41:03
So I don't know.
41:05
I think there's a bigger hand at play,
41:06
some bigger hand, bigger story that we're not privy to.
41:10
But I do know the Manhattan Project just sold,
41:13
like where that location was, I think it's sold now
41:16
to Radiant technology, which is Radiant,
41:19
if you're not familiar with them,
41:20
they are building micro-nuclear reactors.
41:23
So one megawatt, the size of a shipping container.
41:26
Imagine that.
41:27
Hey, guys, fuck, we've got all these Bitcoin miners.
41:29
What do we do?
41:30
Call Radiant.
41:30
They'll dump a megawatt in the middle of wherever you are,
41:33
and it's deliverable from a semi-trailer.
41:36
So that's their whole value prop.
41:38
And they bought the Manhattan Project site
41:40
to pump these factories out.
41:44
And I think kind of the approach first is like, you know, military.
41:48
So if we go into the middle of the desert,
41:49
we can drop one of these things and we got one megawatt,
41:52
which is like, oh, great, we can power our PlayStation 5s
41:56
or not PlayStation 5, the military.
41:57
They've got real weapons, but you know what I mean?
41:59
They can power all this stuff really easily.
42:02
So it's sort of like a grab and go.
42:04
Like it's like a portable charger, but it's a one megawatt facility.
42:07
So those guys and that whole nuclear initiative,
42:10
that will start becoming a thing.
42:12
Because if everyone is trying to figure out energy,
42:17
nuclear is the first cab off the rank,
42:19
but everyone's got all these cock blocks in place where it's like,
42:21
oh, we made some law in 1993 that said we won't do that.
42:26
That's nice.
42:27
Your farmers can't farm food and your whole civilization is eroding
42:31
through plastics and preservatives.
42:33
It's like maybe we should figure that energy thing out a bit.
42:38
And so I think, yeah.
42:39
Yeah.
42:40
Yeah, when I mentioned the like exponential curve of energy,
42:43
that's really what I was thinking.
42:44
I think these small modular reactors,
42:45
like all the red tape that stops them
42:47
from really being able to be deployed,
42:49
that's just going to get ripped straight off
42:50
because there's going to be a huge energy shortage.
42:53
Literally, like they're just going to be like,
42:55
this is foolish.
42:56
We have like 100%, 100%.
42:58
Yeah, and these companies like Oklo
43:01
are just going to like put one of those reactors
43:03
in the middle of nowhere
43:04
and you just have a data center there.
43:06
Like that's 100% going to happen.
43:08
Yeah, that's literally it.
43:09
They'll find the most optimal ground with the most – because one of the things, the balance is weather, right?
43:14
So you look at all the servers.
43:16
Most of the servers in North America, I think, one of the most popular spots is Vegas because fault lines and all that sort of weather conditions and stuff, it makes it the most reliable.
43:26
See, these guys have to think about everything.
43:28
They're like, hmm, but if we go to there, what's earthquake insurance cost there?
43:33
Oh, it's 20% more.
43:34
Fuck, we can't take – but that's the shit they have to think about.
43:38
like oh did you get the earthquake insurance no i only got flood and river insurance like they
43:43
literally have to think about everything like that so it's like it's pretty wild but yeah it'll be
43:49
they'll be able to choose the most safe places so harm from natural disasters um and then just dump
43:56
it there and be like all right boys sweet as yeah and then get going because all they need they're
44:01
constrained by nothing all they need really is like a river for water and a big empty space basically
44:06
Like, yeah, it just becomes like a super turbine.
44:09
And I mean, that's all that, like, have you seen some of those solar farms in China?
44:13
Like, these things are monsters.
44:15
And all it is, it's just a big tower in the middle with water in it and all a massive,
44:22
massive thing of mirrors.
44:24
And they're all just reflecting the sun, right?
44:26
It's the sun at the water, which steam turns the turbine, blah, blah, blah.
44:30
Unreal.
44:31
Yeah.
44:32
it's crazy though just that like to think this world that we're a few ways away a few years away
44:37
from like i i don't even know what you're meant to do to prepare for this like is there anything
44:42
you can do i i genuinely i don't know i think the best thing the most valuable skills i think
44:49
will be somewhere at the intersection of physics and maths because maths will be the algorithms
44:54
the robots and the data and all that sort of side and then the physics will be i'm you know
44:59
a propulsion research expert or whatever it is,
45:02
but everyone is trying to figure out that silicon moment.
45:07
So we didn't always have silicon chips, I don't think.
45:11
We kind of had these old things that became silicon chips.
45:15
The transistor, I think it's called.
45:17
The transistor, it was a big like step function moment
45:21
in computation, I think.
45:23
We'll have one of those moments.
45:24
Everyone wants to be the company to make the breakthrough.
45:28
You know, some company is going to figure out over unity, which is a term there's patents on it and stuff.
45:33
It's how to basically put energy in and get more energy out than you put in.
45:37
All these kind of things, cold fusion.
45:40
They're all these sort of sci-fi ideas.
45:42
But remember, there's eight and a half billion people on the planet and everyone hasn't been motivated to figure this out.
45:49
The moment everyone gets any kind of motivation to figure it out, then it's all guns blazing.
45:55
Like once the carrots there, hey, if we get more energy or better energy.
45:59
And then you've got things like even like cross pollinating this into politics with like the Strait of Hormuz.
46:06
It's like now that's just a total shit sandwich and all the world is feeling it.
46:11
It's like cutting off the oxygen supply of the planet.
46:14
And it's like if they start taking Bitcoin and we as like this is just hypothetical, right?
46:20
But let's say they do start in some native open currency
46:25
out of principle or whatever.
46:28
Well, they have been doing.
46:29
That's what they have been doing, right.
46:30
And so that trend, like if we lean on that a bit more,
46:33
then you get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin
46:37
or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to.
46:40
Because if they don't, like that's their fastest way to pay their bills.
46:44
You know what's funny?
46:44
We talked about this as well, but Iran,
46:46
the central bank has been mining Bitcoin for five years.
46:49
And they've had, so all they said, they go, no, no, no, you can't have Bitcoin exchanges in Iran.
46:53
It's like, what?
46:55
You can't have Bitcoin mining either?
46:57
No, no, no, mine all you want.
46:59
I'm buying from you though and no one else.
47:01
It's like, damn, how heavy are those bags over there, dude?
47:06
And so it's pretty crazy because Iran's like front and center.
47:10
Obviously, they've been very front and center for a long time in different parts of the world.
47:13
But right now, like you're looking at someone that's basically been mining, DCAing Bitcoin from all the miners in Iran.
47:20
Now, what are the miners in Iran?
47:21
I mean, up until like 18 months ago or two years ago, they had 3% to 5% of the daily hash rate.
47:28
I mean, to every single...
47:29
So this isn't El Salvador buying a coin every day or whatever.
47:33
This is like, nah, bro, I'm putting energy into the earth for this shit.
47:36
And they're getting 5% or 3% back.
47:39
So, I mean, it's pretty wild, but geez, that is like, if that place, if that straight of all moves only operated on some like international globally accessible currency, that sounds so tagline-y.
47:51
Geez, if only we had an international globally accessible supply verifiable country.
47:56
But literally, if they did kind of go that route, that'd be absolutely insane.
48:02
You'd see the government come in and basically be like, all right, Michael Saylor, your bags are ours.
48:08
you're the chairman of the ship but we're taking 10 we need a float so we can buy oil it'd be like
48:12
all right cool like you know they do that with intel or whatever um i wouldn't see it very not
48:18
not a fast stretch it doesn't feel like a fast yeah yeah i want to i know what you think in terms
48:23
of because the bitcoin adoption at nation state level has been mainly like i guess pariah type
48:29
nations like iran um i'm sure china would be mining bitcoin i'm sure russia have yeah um el
48:35
El Salvador obviously saw this like asymmetric bet that they made.
48:38
Bhutan is the coolest one because they've just been mining a ton of Bitcoin.
48:41
And I mean, they weren't really telling anyone until it came out.
48:43
But how does this go from being that type of nation to, you know, what we think of as like the Western developed countries, the US, the UK?
48:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:53
So sorry to interrupt.
48:54
That's 100% right.
48:55
Like, it's just like, how did Silvergate become the biggest, you know, Bitcoin bank?
49:00
How did Silicon Valley bank?
49:01
They bit off a thing, a niche.
49:03
I mean, it's a bad example to use now, but at the time, they went to a really small pond
49:09
of opportunity and were like, let's try and grow this pond massively.
49:13
So I think right now, like you'll have countries that can flip other countries where they're
49:18
like, just like you've got friends that invest in Bitcoin and now they're wealthier than
49:22
other people that might've been, you know, better, more successful than them.
49:26
So I think that's a thing.
49:28
I think Luxembourg just bought some or put 1% of their sovereign wealth fund in.
49:32
I think like four days ago or something.
49:35
But you've got to remember,
49:37
and this is one thing that a lot of people don't realize,
49:39
is the world is kept together a lot, I think,
49:43
with networking and relationships.
49:45
So I'll give you an example is Apple.
49:48
They've got $240 billion worth of cash or something.
49:50
Let's say it's $200 billion, just a round number.
49:52
Okay, cool.
49:53
Oh, man, imagine if they put it all into Bitcoin.
49:56
That'd be so hectic.
49:58
Okay, cool.
49:59
You put it all into Bitcoin.
50:00
What's your ROI?
50:01
oh, I get 12%. That's mad. The reason why we did it, let's say I'm Mr. Apple. It's like, oh,
50:06
that's cool. You got your 12%? Your bag's pumped? Great. Okay. Well, we got fuck all out of it.
50:13
We've got 12% gains. That's fine. But because we don't store any money at Bank of America anymore,
50:19
we have no supply chain insurance. We have no invoice factoring. We have no company cards.
50:24
We have no white label branded Apple cards. We have no supply chain financing either.
50:30
so the money they're not idiots these guys are actually the smartest in the room and if they're
50:36
not putting it into bitcoin there's usually a reason why they like money believe me and they
50:40
probably like money even more than you and i do and like we don't like we like sort of trying to
50:45
change it but the idea is like every like apple would be like hey bank of america we want 60 day
50:52
terms on our supply chain financing when we buy a billion dollars worth of shit from wherever
50:57
They're like, cool, we'll finance that for you,
51:00
but we want you guys to have at least $50 billion
51:03
in our proprietary money market fund.
51:06
Okay, great.
51:07
Cool, we'll park that there.
51:08
You're going to give us our 4% to 6%.
51:10
Don't worry, we can write that off.
51:11
We can call that inflation, blah, blah, blah.
51:14
Great, you've got our supply chain financing.
51:16
Cool, now our orders aren't late.
51:18
Now when we make an announcement and we say we're going to start
51:22
shipping these products in two weeks' time,
51:24
you can go to Apple and get those products shipped.
51:26
One of the biggest disconnects between most companies' performance versus sales is not that they're bad salesmen.
51:33
It's that they're bad supply chains.
51:35
So Samsung announces the, you know, whatever, Sony announces a new phone or a new this or a new that.
51:40
It's like four months between the announcement and shipped and like in your hand.
51:45
It's where Apple is usually like you can find them at the store next Wednesday from next Wednesday onwards because they keep that hype and that supply chain like very well in tune.
51:54
so when i see these companies like there's a reason why they've got they're sitting on their
51:59
hands when it comes to bitcoin they're not jumping on it straight away the mega mega guys because
52:04
they're usually they've got their hand in 500 pies you can't be one of the biggest companies in the
52:09
world you can't get 200 billion dollars cash in your bank without having a couple of friends
52:14
somewhere and a lot of relationships to uphold so there's that now will the countries do it
52:19
I think if there's a carrot for international sort of sovereignty,
52:23
then yes, they will.
52:25
But right now it feels like charity.
52:28
It feels like, it almost feels like Ethereum lost to ChatGBT,
52:34
like Web3 lost to ChatGBT almost.
52:36
Like they lost talent, they lost developers,
52:38
they lost enthusiasm, mindshare and everything.
52:40
Yeah, the hype was a huge one.
52:42
A hundred percent.
52:43
And so it's just like, oh, it's a shinier object, whatever.
52:45
And it's like, oh, you know, like the Woody meme
52:48
where he doesn't want to play with the doll anymore.
52:49
is throwing it out it's kind of like that but that for that was for like developer enthusiasm but
52:56
like energy stuff bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation which bitcoin has been
53:03
the number one like i look at bitcoin its goal should be a hundred percent total addressable
53:08
market of energy consumption on it like whatever energy we produce that's its north star how much
53:13
energy is not being committed to bitcoin right now and then you like work backwards from that
53:17
But, I mean, I just don't think if the hype is going around Bitcoin or it's been distracted or overshadowed, then so will the actions taken.
53:29
So now there might be three people or four people in a boardroom and each of these sovereign wealth funds.
53:35
Two of them are saying we need to invest massively in data centers for AI so that Sam Altman and the crew will come and build out in our country.
53:45
The other is saying we need to start acquiring Bitcoins
53:48
and blah, blah, blah, and that whole narrative
53:50
just has no water in it.
53:52
So the guys, the advisors to these people pulling the actual decision,
53:55
like making decisions, they're going to have people saying,
53:58
well, these are our options.
53:59
And there's not really enough meat on the bone
54:01
to make Bitcoin a core option right now.
54:04
Like I'm not saying that I don't think they will.
54:08
I'm just saying like if I was imagining them
54:10
and strategically trying to, you know, allocate
54:12
where are we going to put our money?
54:13
do we put 1% into Bitcoin or do we put that 1% into building for the future, which is AI data
54:20
centers? And there's a pretty easy case to make for the data centers and there's a harder one
54:25
to sell for the Bitcoin. Yeah, no, I agree with that. But how do we get that narrative back?
54:30
Focus, focus, focus, focus. Like the biggest thing right now that I've seen is distraction,
54:38
like massively and i like i just know that bitcoin superpower for the longest time is not being uh
54:47
the everything machine it's actually the opposite of that it's having one clear message because
54:52
bitcoin's only going to get if i got one sentence at the conversation where it matters and if that
54:57
sentence is confusing broken fragmented or different to what everyone else thinks then
55:02
that's problematic so it's like you know bitcoin it's the hardest money mankind's ever made like
55:07
that's the summary that's the too long didn't read everything else is noise and it's not like
55:12
i need this because of my bags it's like no because bitcoin doesn't have a leader and when
55:17
you don't have a leader you're a distributed system that's trying to move forward all together
55:23
right so you're trying to move forward when people are going in different directions it spins it's
55:29
like having you know an air turbine blowing around in a circle because it's not going forward because
55:34
it's just doing the same thing or it's being pulled in different directions so i think like
55:39
the biggest concern is focus and so like there's been a lot of messages for bitcoin like it's like
55:46
okay bitcoin the energy thing bitcoin the energy finder bitcoin the uh the uncensorable bitcoin
55:55
the hard money bitcoin the the and it's sort of like oh is this the corporate treasury token now
56:00
So like, I think one of the biggest risks actually is in this AI world, if people need
56:06
Bitcoins, they will just take them because they should take them if they can.
56:11
Like if I'm a government, my country's going to shit.
56:12
I'll be like, okay, who's got all the coins?
56:14
Okay, we'll take them.
56:15
And so this is one of the side effects that we're seeing now, the symptoms.
56:19
Yeah, side effects of the treasury company boom.
56:21
So the treasury company stuff, which I've spoken to you about, I think has so much potential,
56:26
is so much potential to add heaps of value to give lots of exposure to lots of different people but
56:33
at the same time what does that mean well it means a lot of grifting so i know people like
56:39
right now people so many people my phone have been ringing about i've lost so much money in this or
56:45
that or that i'm like oh they're like i thought this was bitcoin it's not bitcoin it's like i was
56:49
like oh no like these horror stories and it's like we while we're doing these treasury things so like
56:57
and i'm not i'm not bagging anything but i'm just saying like this is one of the it's a very real
57:01
risk like i study security and i'm trying to like look at what are the things that can fuck our bags
57:06
well one of the big problems is because they're publicly traded companies that's great as a
57:11
vehicle for raising capital so if you're on the company awesome share liquidity buy and sell
57:17
through all the exchange brokerages, awesome.
57:20
Now, the problem with that is you have regulations
57:22
that you need to keep those coins
57:24
or that primary asset secured to a certain level of degree,
57:27
like certain degree.
57:28
Now, that means you sweep these coins
57:30
into a custody service.
57:32
So what happens is Coinbase's ownership of assets
57:36
is going from 6% total supply, 9%, 11%, 14%, 16%, 19%.
57:43
And if every company becomes a treasury company,
57:46
great great we're at 30% now what do we want to do how are we going to get this to 50%
57:51
you know and that's a very real honest fair critique of well what then and most people say
58:01
oh that's just paranoia but no it's not paranoia I'm thinking for the people that can't think yeah
58:07
they're there there's no voice they're the person your kid my kids your kids whatever
58:11
they don't have a voice saying the matter and it's like yeah we probably could have avoided doing that
58:16
and it's sort of like the same way we could have avoided you know like asbestos or something like
58:20
that we'd be like oh fuck that like that's terrible oh it's the best thing ever look at this i'm
58:24
drinking water wait what are the second order third order effects and can we evaluate whether
58:29
this has been successful or not yet um so i think i think that's a real risk is not being focused
58:35
It's the same way Ethereum kind of got chopped up by Solana because Ethereum was the proof of
58:41
stake network, but it's also the smart contract network, but it's also the burning the gas,
58:52
that new model they brought out, which was burning the Ethereum tokens, like proof of stake and burn.
58:58
So what happened was it was trying to compete with Bitcoin on being a better sound money.
59:03
And so they said, well, why don't we shrink the supply when we're paying gas?
59:07
Okay.
59:07
So it's more sound money than Bitcoin because the supply is actively shrinking.
59:11
Okay.
59:11
That's cool.
59:13
It's proof of stake.
59:14
So you earn money.
59:15
So that's cool.
59:16
But what it's really done in the whole process is say, I don't know where I'm going, but I
59:20
like what you're doing.
59:21
I like what you're doing.
59:22
I like what you're doing.
59:23
And the reality is that basically Ethereum lost to Solana in these kind of conversations
59:28
because Ethereum was at war with itself.
59:31
It kept changing.
59:32
And the premise of the supply curve is not that it goes down.
59:37
Like it's like, oh, the supply is decreasing.
59:39
Like Ethereum shows Bitcoin supply and then shows it being like even worse.
59:43
It's predictable.
59:44
That is what everyone wants.
59:46
Exactly.
59:47
So the more you try and change for something, the more unpredictable you look or become.
59:53
And now forget, remember, we're all stressed out.
59:56
Everyone has got a million and one pieces of content all trying to enter their brain.
59:59
and you're trying to tell me you change what for what yeah not next you're just like the ai photo
1:00:05
of the cat smelling its own bum or like it's all just this is ephemeral and it's not really
1:00:10
there's no uh discipline or like kind of focus behind it and so that's why ethereum's there like
1:00:16
yeah we're better than bitcoin we're also proof of stake like solana and now it's like
1:00:20
okay solana is that bitcoin is really good for that and ethereum's still trying to find its home
1:00:25
base in certain ways don't get me wrong ethereum is actually you know what something a lot of people
1:00:29
don't think about.
1:00:30
Ethereum has a higher density
1:00:32
of self-custody
1:00:33
probably than any other network,
1:00:34
including Bitcoin,
1:00:35
by light use.
1:00:36
So Ethereum, by default,
1:00:38
if you ever use a smart contract,
1:00:40
you have to be holding
1:00:41
your own keys.
1:00:42
So their out-of-the-box
1:00:43
sort of behavior
1:00:44
for anyone in Ethereum
1:00:46
or Solana or whatever
1:00:46
is holding your own keys
1:00:48
because they're like,
1:00:49
I can't interact with the chain
1:00:50
without it.
1:00:51
Which is a double-edged sword
1:00:52
because people are already doing that
1:00:53
so they can go and gamble
1:00:54
in the casino.
1:00:55
But it doesn't stop it being true.
1:00:57
Yeah, well, literally,
1:00:57
That's a good point, Danny.
1:00:59
It's like, no, no, let me at it.
1:01:02
I want to rug myself.
1:01:03
Okay, dude, you do you.
1:01:05
It's like they're rushing to the casino.
1:01:07
Right, and that's the thing, right?
1:01:08
So, we know that there's a lot of distractions
1:01:12
and that most of them aren't really going to add the amount
1:01:15
of value that just a frozen scarce predictable money supply could And when you think about it like oh hey man what are you working on I trying to fix money It like oh okay well oh you probably not going to care much
1:01:29
about my calendar app then.
1:01:31
Yeah, it's like, nah, there's levels to this.
1:01:34
I don't give a shit about your calendar app, right?
1:01:36
And it's like, then it's like, oh, fuck.
1:01:39
So what problem do we want to solve?
1:01:42
Like if you're in Bitcoin, it's like, no, no, no,
1:01:43
we've got to make it so everyone can like bet on stuff using Bitcoin.
1:01:48
It's like, oh yeah, that's cool.
1:01:49
You know that there's 8 billion people and close to 1 billion of them in
1:01:53
poverty.
1:01:54
Money to them is the worst thing in existence.
1:01:57
And you have a seat at the table right now to help that.
1:02:00
No, no, no, no, no.
1:02:01
This is way better though.
1:02:02
Oh, this really cool thing that I saw on this TikTok once like three months
1:02:07
ago.
1:02:07
It's like, you're killing me, killing me.
1:02:10
Because we've got kind of like, I really think,
1:02:13
and I don't want to sound like Eminem,
1:02:14
but we kind of get one shot on goal at this.
1:02:16
I totally agree with that.
1:02:19
Times like this is almost like these weird eclipse moments in life
1:02:22
where we just get that one fleeting moment to change gears.
1:02:28
We can't do it every day.
1:02:29
We won't get a chance in another 200, 300, 400 years, whatever.
1:02:32
But we do get that chance today, which is a very big privilege
1:02:37
to be able to be in such an interesting time because it's funny
1:02:40
because, I mean, I grew up thinking like,
1:02:42
oh this is shit like the stars are already like we don't have tech to go to other galaxies yet so
1:02:48
i'm not gonna say shit and then it's like oh and everyone's already built all the mcdonald's on
1:02:52
like over earth like it's already finished it's like great what am i here for there but now you're
1:02:57
like well shit i didn't know i was gonna be right in the middle of ai bitcoin energy shit it's like
1:03:02
it's like it is definitely the most interesting time dude it's like i'm i'm not joking now i
1:03:09
I literally am to the point where I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
1:03:13
I must be on the Truman Show now.
1:03:15
I wake up and I read a headline.
1:03:16
I'm like, is this the onion?
1:03:19
It's not the – what the fuck is going on?
1:03:21
I'm like, dude, it's like the Trump stuff the other day.
1:03:24
He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eviscerate the civilization.
1:03:28
I'm like, what?
1:03:30
Crazy.
1:03:31
That's awfully okay, cool.
1:03:33
And you've literally got active warships just sitting there,
1:03:38
like cock blocking everyone.
1:03:39
But it's like what I think has been a fantastic lesson for like all of us on earth is sovereignty.
1:03:46
We're all learning.
1:03:48
Everyone is trying to withdraw their money from the bank right now, the bank of Hormuz,
1:03:52
let's say.
1:03:52
And they're realizing, wow, I can't actually get it when I ask for it.
1:03:57
Shit, how much money do I have in my bank account?
1:04:00
Oh, you've got 31 days worth of money left.
1:04:03
It's like, wow, shit.
1:04:04
I really need to make sure that I can always have a couple of days.
1:04:07
and then you start saving money and you start being better with it.
1:04:09
But in this case, I think it'll become energy.
1:04:12
And it's almost like this straight-of-all-moves blocking situation.
1:04:17
I don't even know if it's open or closed, to be honest, dude.
1:04:19
It's so hard to keep up with it.
1:04:20
It changes every day.
1:04:22
I don't know what's happening right now.
1:04:22
Literally no idea.
1:04:23
And it always changes in line with the stock market opening
1:04:26
and closing, by the way.
1:04:27
Yeah, yeah.
1:04:27
Just FYI.
1:04:28
The announcements are always on Friday at 4.30.
1:04:30
Dude, it's the best.
1:04:32
But, you know, it is crazy.
1:04:34
but I think we're going to kind of get to a point now
1:04:37
where I think it's coming into the zeitgeist or the consciousness
1:04:41
where we're all on the same team
1:04:43
and we sort of need to realize that pretty quickly.
1:04:46
Like, you know, it's not America versus Iran
1:04:49
and Iran versus America versus China.
1:04:52
It's like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro?
1:04:54
Like, they are really good at manufacturing.
1:04:57
You are really good at something else.
1:04:59
Russia is really good at something else.
1:05:01
Australia is really resourceful.
1:05:03
Mate, we're all in a fucking world,
1:05:04
group project i don't know anyone else in the universe i don't know if anyone else on this
1:05:08
planet does but as far as i know i'm stuck on a rock in the middle of nowhere and i don't know
1:05:12
any other neighbors it's like you may as well not take a shit on my neighbor's doorstep like
1:05:17
obviously that feels like a foolish effort but like okay that's how we're doing it like
1:05:23
but yeah i'd be mad if we could all get on the same page and i think like with energy hardships
1:05:28
and also AI is forcing alignment on a lot of things
1:05:33
because it's basically giving no alternatives.
1:05:38
Like it's like, what should we do about this?
1:05:40
Maybe we shouldn't.
1:05:41
It's like, no, there is no graphic design jobs
1:05:43
paying 150 grand anymore.
1:05:44
I'm sorry.
1:05:45
Now there might be, but you pay for the guy that goes,
1:05:48
yeah, we're going to do the lettering and the font styling
1:05:50
so it's all in perfect ratios.
1:05:53
And this is the new-
1:05:53
We're actually going to do it on a typewriter.
1:05:55
Pardon?
1:05:55
we're actually going to do on a typewriter
1:05:58
literally that's how original you have to be now because otherwise it's like
1:06:03
you're not really kind of um adding any value and people have got
1:06:07
like a graphic designer's got to compete with a one dollar a day subscription to claude that can
1:06:12
do 95 now can it do it as well no does the world need it to be done at the level that you would
1:06:20
card no and it's like the world just needs it done like yeah and because we're so time poor
1:06:27
we are all going for that route well what's the what's the easier way what's the summary listen
1:06:33
to this people now when booking like even like so uh like let's say you're arranging something
1:06:38
everyone's using ai everywhere like even to the point where people use it to summarize emails
1:06:43
from friends or like text message you get a whatsapp message from a mate it's like summarize
1:06:48
who they are summarize where they are you can't even like you're not even calling him you don't
1:06:53
even have to listen to his voice you just like tap it's like just it feels just to be i don't know
1:07:00
see i'm revolting against this i'm a big fan of just a phone call why did we lose the phone call
1:07:04
phone calls are the best inventions on earth on earth yeah the thing that kills me is when
1:07:09
i've got friends who will send me like a copy and paste from chat gpt to me it's like i'm not
1:07:15
reading your ai slot just like you're my friend just talk to me literally yeah literally voice
1:07:19
know me if you have to but like far out and it's so wild to think how yeah it's and it looked
1:07:26
so here's the thing where when we talk to people so when you hear sounds you ever see those like
1:07:33
people that play a trumpet or something you know paddock are full of cows and all the cows look
1:07:38
over and they're like mad some person playing a violin or something anyway vibrations are real
1:07:44
Like, so when you speak, the only reason you can hear me is because my vibrations are chopping
1:07:50
the air up to make this sound signature.
1:07:52
That's why when you go to a concert, it feels electric.
1:07:56
Like literally where you're like, oh my God, the energy in this room.
1:07:59
It's a shared experience.
1:08:02
So that is your vibrations echoing into mine, echoing back to the other person.
1:08:06
We're like this big vibrational soup.
1:08:09
And so when we don't hear each other's voice or give each other a hug or shake hands with people and stuff, we're losing that component of ourselves.
1:08:20
And that is one of the biggest things for feeling good is about your nervous system, the electricity in it and all that sort of stuff.
1:08:27
So when we don't see people, when we don't hug people, when we don't hang out with people in person, we're losing a lot.
1:08:34
We can't see that we're losing a lot, but we are losing a lot.
1:08:36
It's sort of like listening to a song live versus digitally
1:08:42
is kind of like eating McDonald's beef patties versus a steak.
1:08:49
Like you're like, no, this is meat.
1:08:50
Like this is beef.
1:08:51
It's like, yes, my body is thinking that's not beef, bro.
1:08:56
That's fucking something.
1:08:57
And then the same way when it hears the song digitally, it's like, yeah,
1:09:01
I hear it digitally, but I'm not like I'm not getting the whole experience here
1:09:04
because think, vibrations and sound, sound is like this really,
1:09:08
really powerful thing in physics because it penetrates so aggressively.
1:09:12
Like it's like a catch-all, like vibrations.
1:09:15
If you're standing on something that's vibrating,
1:09:17
you don't get a choice to be like, I'm going to ignore this.
1:09:19
It takes over your entire state.
1:09:21
Same way as being in a loud room, same way as jumping in the ocean,
1:09:25
jumping in the ocean.
1:09:26
It's like, dude, that's like you could pay $100 for that
1:09:29
and people would pay for it if you didn't have an ocean to jump in.
1:09:33
But like the refreshment, all your like everything has been like cleaned off, like unzipping.
1:09:40
It's like taking the shrink wrap off for a new like suit of electrons.
1:09:43
And they're all like, woohoo, we can feel shit.
1:09:46
But it all matters.
1:09:47
And I think we've kind of drifted towards this digital environment where it's like, no, no, no.
1:09:51
It's basically the same.
1:09:53
It's like, no, there's something about human interaction, human connection.
1:09:57
A great example.
1:09:58
How funny is this?
1:09:58
So we walk, you see those infrared saunas and infrared things and stuff
1:10:04
and people are like lying there trying to get the infrared up.
1:10:06
Okay, that's because it does really good things for your body
1:10:10
and makes you feel good and shit.
1:10:11
When you go, oh, how would I get that naturally?
1:10:14
Dude, literally walking through a park.
1:10:17
So the chlorophyll on the leaves refracts all the infrared light
1:10:21
so it can't absorb it.
1:10:23
So it's like, you know those movies with a bank vault
1:10:26
and they've got the trip lasers everywhere.
1:10:29
Like they open and they're like, oh my God,
1:10:31
there's all these lasers, all different directions.
1:10:33
That's why when you're walking through a park,
1:10:35
think of that, but they're infrared lasers
1:10:37
like zapping into your mitochondria,
1:10:39
straight into the core of your cell.
1:10:42
That's why when you go for a walk outside,
1:10:44
sometimes you're like, you know, I'm glad.
1:10:46
I'm actually glad I went on that hike.
1:10:48
I'm glad I went on that thing.
1:10:49
I'm glad I went to that.
1:10:50
Yeah, fucking off you are.
1:10:51
You're not even in charge.
1:10:52
Your body's telling you you're glad
1:10:54
because it's like, who the fuck gave a sissy for Red Bar?
1:10:57
So that's what it is.
1:10:58
So the refraction off the chlorophyll, the leaves and shit, it's bad.
1:11:01
It's like your body thinks like you're going for a bath.
1:11:03
But you see people who pay $400 for these face masks
1:11:06
and they sleep in there like a bed looking like Jason from Halloween
1:11:10
and shit with their masks on.
1:11:12
Dude, if I came and saw my mom, I woke my mom up in the middle of the night
1:11:15
and she's like, with one of those masks, horror movie,
1:11:18
wouldn't sleep for 20 years.
1:11:19
Dude, maybe that's why I can't sleep.
1:11:21
I fucking love you, man.
1:11:23
but anyway yeah so maybe that maybe that's the when everyone revolts against ai and people go
1:11:28
outside again maybe that's when we really uh recapture what it is to be human i think possibly
1:11:32
or what happens if cryptography ends and we can't we can't so we should talk about this because
1:11:37
like this has obviously become a huge topic in bitcoin with quantum stuff yeah but you are the
1:11:42
only person i know personally who's been working on breaking cryptography before this yeah like
1:11:47
what's what's your read on it all oh i think i think it breaks definitely and i think it's like
1:11:52
Through a normal, like through math breakthroughs.
1:11:55
So, yeah.
1:11:56
So I think quantum will be a thing.
1:11:58
Quantum will be a pain in the ass for lots of things.
1:12:01
But for cryptography, it's really like an advancement
1:12:04
in the knowledge of prime numbers.
1:12:06
Like, because that's sort of, we build on not knowing these guys
1:12:10
as well as we know everything else in the universe.
1:12:12
And I think that's where the patterns will come through
1:12:15
from basically AI will be able to see what prime numbers
1:12:19
are trying to do.
1:12:20
And so prime numbers basically are, it's like every cryptographic key is basically the mixture
1:12:28
of two prime numbers. Think about it like for lack of a better term, and we don't know how to
1:12:33
unmix them. So you put two colors together, we know what colors went into it. So if I gave
1:12:39
red and blue, I think I'd get green. I know if I see something green, it came in as red and blue
1:12:45
before. We don't know the before part when it comes to cryptography. And so that's why we're
1:12:50
like, oh, we don't know if it was red, blue, yellow, green, because we don't know the whole
1:12:55
spectrum of who works with what. But just to give you an example, right? So 256-bit encryption,
1:13:03
which is half 512 standards, are pretty strong. Like that's, you know, travel a million times
1:13:09
around the universe of guesses, and then you still need to do that 10 trillion times to
1:13:13
get 1% of the way. So just to compare that, right? So we look at cryptography like it's,
1:13:19
you know, impenetrable, but it is just a guessing game. And just because we don't have the context
1:13:26
to sharpen our guesses doesn't mean it's impossible. And what I mean by that is wheel
1:13:31
of fortune, right? Wheel of fortune, the blank squares, right? The quick brown fox jumps over
1:13:38
the lazy dogs. A saying. That's why. So you guess the letters, right? One in 26, one in 26, one in
1:13:45
every single one of those is one in 26. So one in 26, one in 26, you got to do that a lot of times.
1:13:51
If you've got 55 characters or 26 characters, 52, that's one in 26. That's an astronomically
1:13:58
stupidly dumb big number. Now, if we think, well, yeah, but I know that there's no English words
1:14:05
that have ZZBW in a row so I can rule that out?
1:14:11
Yes, you can.
1:14:12
So now this astronomically 512-bit encryption shrinks down very quickly
1:14:17
and then starts going, oh, yeah, people guess Wheel of Fortune every day.
1:14:21
18 bits, like 18 characters, 30 characters.
1:14:24
They just ask questions.
1:14:25
It's like, oh, it's a movie.
1:14:27
Oh, cool.
1:14:29
Then I know what words, if there's one letter at the start,
1:14:33
I'm not going to think, oh, yeah, it's Z.
1:14:35
No, it'd be I, like I am robot or I robot or whatever.
1:14:40
But it's not like, you know, K is the first letter on its own.
1:14:44
We've got context to sharpen our choices.
1:14:47
So that's why Fred Smith that works at KFC or Joe Blow that works
1:14:51
at Guzman and Gomez, they can go on the show and they still,
1:14:54
it's not like they're trying to crack cryptography.
1:14:57
But every day we see these humans busting wide open 256-bit encryption
1:15:02
in the same way.
1:15:03
And so what I'm saying is, yes, it's harder than the game show.
1:15:09
Sure, it's just longer.
1:15:11
But it's not impossible.
1:15:13
It's impossible if you don't have any context.
1:15:16
Sure, that's like a blind guy trying to find the macaroni and cheese in Coles.
1:15:20
But if you say, yeah, the mac and cheese or dairy products are in aisle six,
1:15:25
you've now given him a hint, a guide.
1:15:28
And so that context starts shaping the reality of what you are actually looking at
1:15:33
but can't see. So let me see if I've learned anything from you. So the problem in this is that
1:15:38
there's no pattern to prime numbers. So to find a larger prime number, you essentially have to
1:15:42
brute force it. But is what you're saying that if we found a pattern in prime numbers,
1:15:47
then encryption gets broken? Yes. Do you think that's possible to find a pattern? Do you think
1:15:52
a pattern exists? I believe with my hand on my heart that a human being will do it before I'm
1:15:58
And so is that the basis for every single cryptographic scheme there is? And does that
1:16:04
mean there is no cryptography? Everyone that matters, yeah. Because, so prime number is,
1:16:09
think of it like the hardest element in the universe. And I actually mean that quite literally,
1:16:14
just because if I pick up a grain of tungsten, a grain of sand that's tungsten, I go, that's the
1:16:20
heaviest element in the earth or whatever. You're like, oh, cool. A prime number is that, but it's
1:16:24
is smaller. It's indivisible. There is no saw that cuts a prime number in half. So, treat a prime
1:16:30
number like divisibility, splitting the atom, right? Splitting the atom. That happened in war
1:16:34
because we're under pressure. We split the atom, the smallest thing ever. Well, a prime number
1:16:40
is a number that doesn't have any parts by definition. That is its defining factor. And
1:16:45
we've never been able to, let's call it split a semi-prime. So, a semi-prime is when you multiply
1:16:52
two primes together and what a semi-prime is is they will use those because we don't the primes
1:16:57
have no like oh yeah he had brown hair and glasses he went down there into the left there's none of
1:17:03
that it's like i don't know dude he was too far i didn't even see the cunt like i don't know
1:17:07
which way he went it's like okay so it's basically you know their prime you know you will never find
1:17:13
them and so the idea is like well is that true that was true in 1970s when rsa was developed but
1:17:21
But, you know, have things changed since then?
1:17:24
Yes.
1:17:25
Has our knowledge changed?
1:17:27
Maybe.
1:17:28
But our ability to look at the same thing through multiple lenses,
1:17:32
that's changed.
1:17:33
So it's still the same data,
1:17:34
but we're going to look at it through multiple lenses.
1:17:36
And so I think it just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable.
1:17:42
It's like, oh, sure, yeah, sure.
1:17:44
In that context, it's not.
1:17:46
But if you make it look Wheel of Fortune-y,
1:17:48
everyone can guess Wheel of Fortune.
1:17:49
It doesn't mean they can guess a 256-bit cryptographic key though.
1:17:54
But it's like, no, no, no.
1:17:55
Once we paint it in a way that people comprehend it,
1:17:59
people will be like, oh, no, no, no.
1:18:01
It's this and you've got to do that or do this.
1:18:04
That restricts it even more.
1:18:06
And so like I look at it now, I look at, because it's prime numbers,
1:18:11
I focus mainly on RSA cryptography because that's just like a,
1:18:15
it's just all RSA is.
1:18:16
It's just literally one prime, another prime, multiply them together.
1:18:19
That's your public key.
1:18:20
So it's like public key.
1:18:21
If you click on the padlock on your website right now,
1:18:25
like we're on, and I go, I can look at the certificate.
1:18:30
Connection is secure.
1:18:32
It's got a valid certificate.
1:18:33
And that means its key on its side is happy with my key on my side.
1:18:39
And that's a key exchange where they're sort of basically saying,
1:18:41
yeah, you might, yeah, you might, cool.
1:18:43
But these prime numbers, they're not,
1:18:45
they're hard to find with our current logic like our current approach to finding them sure it's
1:18:53
really difficult brute forcing takes forever but we're not dignifying numbers with enough physicality
1:18:59
and when we do when we go all right let's treat numbers they're not imaginary they're just really
1:19:05
really small particles well then that gets they now get included into physics equations so well
1:19:11
if a prime number is physical, then it should be bound to the same laws of physics that,
1:19:16
you know, physical objects are, whether it's an electron or whether it's a building,
1:19:20
it should be the same thing. And so if we crack open our own understanding or give it a chance
1:19:27
and say, well, let's just say hypothetically they are physical, what does that look like?
1:19:30
And then we start getting thousands and thousands. And remember, the world has 8 billion people in
1:19:36
it and they all have access to AI. The only reason people don't do this stuff now is because
1:19:41
they don't really know it's a thing. But if you told everyone, hey, there's $1 trillion bounty
1:19:46
for anyone that can break, factor a semi-prime faster, I promise you this answer comes in
1:19:52
a year by the end of the year. The only reason it's not is because people aren't focused on it,
1:19:58
to be honest. So, you know, everyone becomes an expert at something overnight, like straight of
1:20:02
Hormuz, we all know everything about Iran and when it started and how it's done, whatever it is. But
1:20:07
primes will go through their same thing. And there's going to be a big conversation because
1:20:10
a lot of it will intersect around AI.
1:20:13
AI will want more data.
1:20:14
We will want better understanding of energy.
1:20:17
We will want more privacy.
1:20:19
So we're going to try.
1:20:20
But here's the thing.
1:20:21
We have privacy and stuff.
1:20:22
And I totally get that.
1:20:23
I'm not against privacy.
1:20:24
I'm just against the reality is I don't know.
1:20:27
And I'm not the smartest person on the planet.
1:20:29
I don't know anything else in nature that's been granted privacy.
1:20:34
Now, here they've been granted privacy by humans.
1:20:38
but nature doesn't really go that route nature's like it's my way of a highway always and that's
1:20:45
why we always have second order effects with everything and so nature the natural state of
1:20:52
keeping secrets is actually not real like it's not organic and so that's why in in the world
1:20:58
of addiction so you know alcohol whatever it is whatever your poison is they have a thing that
1:21:03
a saying that says secrets make us sick.
1:21:07
And that means whenever the secret is, it's going to manifest inside
1:21:10
and it starts creating all these third-party accidental effects
1:21:14
just from the manifestation or from the keeping it.
1:21:17
So people that, you know, they might crash their car drunk
1:21:20
or something like, Tiger Woods, yeah, crash car drunk.
1:21:23
But he's like, oh, were you drinking?
1:21:25
No, no, no.
1:21:25
It's like the secrets are creating this sickness from you.
1:21:29
And like in addiction, a lot of the time is because people keep
1:21:32
their addiction from others.
1:21:33
And so they go, well, secrets make you sick in that world
1:21:36
because you're not sharing the most authentic
1:21:39
and you're trying to control things too much.
1:21:42
So when I look at the world, like the earth,
1:21:44
I think there has to be a pretty big enlightenment
1:21:48
moment but i think right now the layers of earth like as in a humanity i don't think they're going
1:21:56
to hold very long like this shadow elite with elites with plebs with homeless people like that
1:22:05
structure just doesn't work and i don't think it's going to work for very long and here we go
1:22:10
like so you see people breaking into like epstein island right like these people like no i need to
1:22:14
know everything that that desire that's not that's not organic need that's their dopamine center
1:22:22
like a zombie with blood lust almost they are that frothing over it that's going to happen with
1:22:28
everything and so the the mankind will not tolerate a secret i don't think especially after if we like
1:22:36
kind of replay history at least like the hardships i think it's going to become more of a we're all
1:22:42
one and we all, like many hands make light work all on the same team perspective instead of a
1:22:49
kill or be killed perspective. And now to get to that level of you're okay and I'm okay and we're
1:22:55
both okay as one, that's where haves and have nots can't exist anymore. So we have to get to that
1:23:01
level of sort of peace and okayness with each other. We have to have it so that you can't be
1:23:08
envious of something I have and vice versa. So if you have more than I have, or if I have more than
1:23:14
you have, and that can mean, what I'm sort of circling on is energy. So we can't control it.
1:23:19
I mean, that's the flow. Everything comes back from energy. Do you have lots of it? Do you have
1:23:22
none of it? Do you have water? Do you have resources? So no, we've got no water in the
1:23:27
middle of Africa. Well, fuck, everything's going to be an expert mode. Great example,
1:23:31
Water in the Middle East, the deserts.
1:23:33
So, Oman or Kuwait, 740% of their annual water production is used.
1:23:42
So, they use 7 point, imagine getting paid 100 grand a year and spending 750 grand, even
1:23:47
better.
1:23:48
So, Dubai, they get paid 100 grand a year water budget, right?
1:23:52
I think theirs is like 46, so 46 times, so 4,600%.
1:23:57
So that's like me spending $4.6 million a year
1:24:00
when I get paid $100,000 a year.
1:24:02
Now, naturally, that is fighting.
1:24:06
We're fighting the natural order very much,
1:24:09
trying to put water in the desert.
1:24:11
Like now that's not a bad thing.
1:24:12
It's great.
1:24:13
We're expanding, da-da-da.
1:24:14
But sooner or later, we'll realize that fighting the natural order
1:24:18
to try and be the masters of our own destiny is probably
1:24:22
a shorter story for mankind than it is for how do we all lift each other up and win.
1:24:30
And, you know, because right now, countries are trying to win.
1:24:33
People are trying to, individuals are trying to win.
1:24:36
It's like, no, no, no, no, no.
1:24:38
Everyone, you buy all your shit from China.
1:24:40
And what, you're going to sit there and say you don't like China?
1:24:42
For good, stop buying it then.
1:24:44
Let's see how happy you are.
1:24:45
No, you wouldn't be.
1:24:47
So show some gratitude.
1:24:48
Russia, science, medicine and mathematics, unreal.
1:24:52
let's like imagine we go like imagine you're in a group project and everyone's got to do
1:24:57
all of the parts it's like no who's the who's the history guy okay you're really good at ancient
1:25:03
history you're doing the egypt part you you're really good at modern history you're doing world
1:25:07
war ii it's like delegate to expertise i mean it sounds like an entire shift from a sort of
1:25:13
scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset from everyone everyone but that's everyone has to have
1:25:18
their needs met and so the needs started basically food water shelter and now money is unfortunately
1:25:25
this artificial need that we've kind of injected into the stack um but the removal of money
1:25:31
which is probably where it goes like money is money is only a stopgap solution it's sort of like
1:25:37
oh yeah i've got cheese and crackers because the pizzas are running late like you know kind of it's
1:25:42
like a here fill up on this and in the meantime because we can't teleport energy around so we
1:25:47
needed to make some currency that represented give a shit.
1:25:50
I mean, labor, right?
1:25:51
Like, Hey, you put a shovel here, here's this give a shit.
1:25:54
So we call that gold or whatever, but the biggest threat to Bitcoin,
1:25:58
generally speaking is actually, uh, apathy.
1:26:02
So people don need money anymore Why not Because everything just works We got all these autonomous energy systems and blah blah blah And then that ushers in the potential for a new creative renaissance basically And a lot of people have talked about this and Bitcoin is
1:26:17
Venice and all this beautiful, incredible foresight from these smart cats in the industry.
1:26:23
But that's sort of what it does. So now when you and I are not thinking,
1:26:27
fuck, did I get that Excel spreadsheet in on time? Shit, is the bus running late? Is that
1:26:32
canceled is that my bus or the next bus and blah blah blah and i've been at work all day
1:26:35
i haven't thought anything about my purpose i've just been like surviving now if you give
1:26:41
everyone back all that time and effort and excitement or zest or enthusiasm where does it go
1:26:49
and so people probably aren't rushing to build you know oh dude i've got the best thing what is it
1:26:55
yeah you come into an office for 40 years and there's no sunlight and there's mad dry air
1:26:59
conditioning is like fuck out of here like stupid suggestion but it's like i think that ushers in a
1:27:07
new era of almost like we made it through the hardest part possible and everyone gets to have
1:27:13
a beautiful life right now it's like bro like we got so lucky being born i'm the luckiest human
1:27:20
being i know born in australia there's no bomb flying over my head like running water like two
1:27:25
seconds down the road there's a beach there's people people are happy people are nice people
1:27:29
was sort of chilled like unreal but like imagine someone who didn't even choose to be here they
1:27:35
didn't ask to come oh yeah can i come to earth please they didn't even ask to be and they come
1:27:39
out like they're like fuck what the why am i even here i didn't ask to be you know and so it's like
1:27:46
i don't know but i think we're going that direction where we're sort of finding a way
1:27:50
to meet everyone's needs but i definitely think there's like we need to clean up a lot of the
1:27:58
governance structure of earth like right now i don't know what's happening but watching what like
1:28:05
what happened in the u.s over the past six to twelve months with like all the like punishment
1:28:10
from like all these like fbi blacked out notes and redacted notes it's like what the fuck is
1:28:16
even going on like clearly you're not working for the people paying the taxes and it's just like
1:28:21
that whole whatever kind of needs to be pulled out before you can kind of have a healthy system
1:28:28
I don't really know how they do that because that's sort of the way that we've been living
1:28:32
forever so maybe that's what bitcoin is for like if we are going to live in a post-money world like
1:28:39
maybe bitcoin is here to uh to starve the beast and get us to that so I've got this theory that
1:28:44
there's like infinite many universes like we're all like every decision sort of spawns a new
1:28:49
universe and I was thinking I was saying to my brother a while ago I was like bro I reckon we're
1:28:54
in the universe that invented Bitcoin for all the other universes. But the caveat is that we made it
1:29:01
so every other timeline gets it forever, but we won't have it long term. And like something like
1:29:06
that, like we kind of break it ourselves or something, but everyone else doesn't get the
1:29:13
broken version and we kind of, who knows. But I tell you what, imagine if we did not have Bitcoin
1:29:18
right now. Imagine not having it. It'd be like, I don't know what to do. Like, where do you put
1:29:24
your money what do you do and then then basically the strategy is how do you preserve your wealth
1:29:29
we just put it where everyone's money laundering when it like literally if like i'm a bum man and
1:29:33
i'm laundering money or whatever it's like where are you guys putting it oh we put in the store
1:29:37
okay cool he's gonna put it there too and so that's a bitcoin needs to be the best vehicle
1:29:40
for people to want money so then just that's people park it there and pump money it's not
1:29:45
very good from like this is so weird the counterproductive thing is like bitcoin's
1:29:49
terrible for money laundering it's like not like people like i'm money laundering bitcoin it's like
1:29:53
dude no one just use the bank on the street with their dick out like why the fuck would anyone do
1:29:57
that with bitcoin it's the same thing like so anyway who knows but i think um i think there's
1:30:04
a lot of excitement on the horizon and yeah we're pretty blessed right now to see and like we haven't
1:30:09
even talked about like claude and chat gbt getting better in three years where could they be in three
1:30:15
years like just to show you how hot this that gets back to the exponentials though like i have no
1:30:20
It's like, oh dude, three years ago,
1:30:22
oh was that before it could launch rockets to Mars You haven even been to Mars dude Oh dude last 18 months have been crazy I going to be like tell me everything I Kane It almost like that And now that
1:30:35
that's the problem for entrepreneurs now is they have to choose, choose their destiny almost. So
1:30:40
you want to build a company, you got to choose correctly, like very difficult. So you're in a
1:30:45
great position where you're like, you know, hosting a podcast. It's like, you're the personality,
1:30:51
you are the talent like you and your likeness is the talent but it's like dude if i'm a front-end
1:30:57
engineer doing html css javascript it's like i don't know where i'm going from there like
1:31:03
and i don't know what starts thinking about doing then like but what stops someone just uh
1:31:09
creating ai me taking all the transcripts to all my context and putting that into some like
1:31:15
ai podcast like that that is a thing there's no way my job's safe either well no no no and that so
1:31:19
But this is actually really interesting because one of the person
1:31:23
that's had the most of that done to them is Alan Watts.
1:31:26
So Alan Watts, the philosopher.
1:31:28
So he's brilliant, the most brilliant speaker I've ever heard
1:31:34
in my entire life.
1:31:35
Like there's never an ounce of fat on any of his sentences.
1:31:39
Anyway, but what people do now is in the same way they do it
1:31:41
to like Joe Rogan where they'll take Alan Watts' speeches
1:31:44
and they'll go, ChatGPG, write something that sounds
1:31:48
like it was written by Alan Watts.
1:31:49
And then people speak and they'll put a bunch of like, you know, rivers and creeks overlaid
1:31:53
over the sounds.
1:31:55
And so now you don't know what's real and what's not real.
1:31:58
And so, but this is what happens, right?
1:32:00
So we're talking about this merging between you and me, but we're becoming one.
1:32:05
Like, so we're becoming one.
1:32:07
If you're holding on, the last thing you have is your likeness.
1:32:11
It's not your voice.
1:32:12
Your voice, that was deepfaked three years ago.
1:32:14
Your body now is deepfaked now as well.
1:32:16
but your likeness. Like, write it like Danny, here's 100 podcasts he's done, write it like he
1:32:22
would write it. You can see in like script writing now with people on TV shows, a lot of script
1:32:28
writing has to accommodate for people. Like, this is another thing, right? So the data set of AI
1:32:33
is going to be trained on these changes and adaptations that we've had to AI. So the script,
1:32:41
for example, in Netflix shows, they have a new script writing sort of strategy because so much
1:32:46
of the audience can't follow old script writing styles because there's too much context because
1:32:51
no one's watching so people like they're looking up every 20 seconds when they're not following
1:32:55
so that's why you find these scripts that sound so ridiculous but it's like they say the same thing
1:33:00
i'm glad i met you on the battleship hey great and the battleship we just got to yeah we're about
1:33:06
to take off awesome i'm glad we met on the battleship let's go into battle great this is
1:33:10
the perfect battleship for it it's so depressing they have to make the the scripts like scrollable
1:33:15
meaning you can be scrolling your phone while you watch it and still follow the story and they make
1:33:19
it like they have key moments that are memeable yeah like these are things that actually go into
1:33:24
production now it's so depressing 100 and so that in itself is shaping and creating the possibility
1:33:31
of what that art format can actually deliver and then it's making the ai stupider because it's like
1:33:37
you mean to tell me you guys are so dumb you can't listen for 30 seconds nope it's down to
1:33:41
five seconds next year it's going to be down to one second and like that's actually a thing by the
1:33:46
way we're all slowly getting autism but a hundred percent and that kills me like it's it's the
1:33:52
commoditization of all mass media like music film like any form of art yeah and i i also don't think
1:33:59
it's real because like when you see um what's he what's the guy called who did to oppenheimer i
1:34:05
forgot his name oh yeah christopher nolan yeah christopher nolan he's coming out with a new film
1:34:09
all shot on like IMAX film.
1:34:11
Yeah.
1:34:12
Like these are things that people actually want,
1:34:14
like real, real stories.
1:34:17
Because people want to escape.
1:34:18
It's escapism.
1:34:19
A hundred percent.
1:34:19
And it's, that's the art form.
1:34:21
The art form isn't, oh, you know, cinema is art.
1:34:25
Music is art.
1:34:26
Now the problem is when you,
1:34:28
when you get things that people like
1:34:31
and you get a system that tries to duplicate that,
1:34:34
you basically get bastardization.
1:34:36
So it's like, now if you're a movie studio,
1:34:38
So let's say you've got this art cinema.
1:34:41
Now, times are getting harder.
1:34:43
In the real world outside of cinema times are getting harder So what does a movie studio exec say Hey do we make that new original picture or Avengers 8 Well we can guarantee a good quarter
1:34:54
if we make Marvel Super Heroes 7.
1:34:57
Oh, fuck it.
1:34:57
But do you think people talk?
1:34:59
We've already done all the data.
1:35:00
We'll lose 80% of the fan base,
1:35:02
but this quarter we'll actually double our revenue.
1:35:05
Great, done.
1:35:05
And that's why that gets done.
1:35:06
But ask any actor on Earth who they want to be in a movie for.
1:35:12
they will all tell you first up one name Christopher Nolan you know why because yeah he's not the money
1:35:18
grab anymore he is the talent where people are like whatever he does it's gonna be unreal so
1:35:24
it's what yeah used to be you get that same feeling of like they are good at their craft
1:35:29
the same way we used to look at actors be like whoa they're good it's like that's all just cookie
1:35:34
cutter popcorn shit in the same way music's the same because these guys they're capital like they're
1:35:39
trying to make money so they're like they're not trying to add to the art industry they're just
1:35:43
trying to make money and so they're like well yeah this makes more money now christopher nolan has
1:35:47
earned his stripes where basically he calls the shots now he's got the dramatically good track
1:35:53
record that says it's my way or the highway thank you and they go yeah but also like when he does
1:35:58
those films the actors take like 20 of their normal paycheck to do it as opposed to doing like an
1:36:03
avengers film because they want to be a part of it they are like this guy it that is the lebron
1:36:08
James, the Michael Jordan, that's like playing, you know, on the winning team because everything
1:36:13
else is boring to them. There's no challenge in being Wolverine for the sixth time and getting
1:36:19
that $240 million paycheck and going to the same bar and being on the same tour. Oh yeah, yeah,
1:36:24
he had great claws this time. Wow. They don't feel part of like the best of the best. Now,
1:36:32
if you're in a Christopher Nolan movie, you made it. And that's why actors now, there is no acting.
1:36:37
It's like, The Rock is not an actor.
1:36:41
The Rock is a wrestling star who's enthusiastic about entertainment, sure,
1:36:44
but he's not an actor.
1:36:46
And like Russell Crowe, he's an actor.
1:36:48
Like The Rock, not an actor.
1:36:49
And they realize that it's actually quite easy to bridge the gap
1:36:52
between fame and acting.
1:36:55
And it's just sort of an extended revenue stream for the famous person,
1:36:59
singing or acting, right?
1:37:01
I don't think you watched The Smashing Machine.
1:37:02
The Rock was an actor in that.
1:37:04
Oh, The Smashing Machine, I haven't seen.
1:37:05
So I gave The Rock, he was on Fortnite recently,
1:37:08
and I was out of the shits because I was like, fucking The Rock.
1:37:11
He's like, look, cool, I love him in a vibe,
1:37:14
but he's like super like whores himself out for everything.
1:37:18
One of the frustrating things about that is the team I chose
1:37:20
in Fortnite, The Rock is on the other team.
1:37:23
This sounds stupid, but The Rock in all his contracts has a
1:37:25
The Rock can't lose clause.
1:37:29
So in all this stuff, The Rock is not allowed to lose.
1:37:31
Oh, you see a photo of The Rock fell off a cliff in Jumanji 7.
1:37:35
Yeah, but at the bottom of the cliff, he was there and he built a hut and he was safe and he killed all the villagers or something.
1:37:40
I don't know.
1:37:40
But that's a funny thing to have baked in because they're, again, they're not even about entertainment.
1:37:45
They're about brand preservation.
1:37:47
Isn't that wild to think?
1:37:48
It's like.
1:37:49
I just love that you're like trying to solve novel math problems and playing Fortnite.
1:37:54
They're your two hobbies.
1:37:56
The best, dude.
1:37:57
The best.
1:37:58
You've got to have the mad disconnect.
1:38:00
You've got to be 100% in something and then absolutely not in it.
1:38:05
Yeah, but nothing solved yet.
1:38:07
Just still stupid.
1:38:10
Michael, this has been fucking awesome.
1:38:12
I love talking to you.
1:38:14
I feel like I don't know which way's up, but I had a good time.
1:38:18
Well, it did text me if there's anything you hear and you're like,
1:38:20
oh, actually, that made sense.
1:38:21
I'll ask him about that again.
1:38:23
But always down and I really appreciate it.
1:38:25
And congrats on a bunch of awesome episodes, by the way.
1:38:28
I've been like pouring my ears out to you for the past,
1:38:31
like, I don't know, month listening to some bangers.
1:38:34
So thanks.
1:38:34
thanks it's awesome i love it thank you man and we we need to do this more regularly i'm going to
1:38:38
come down to sydney soon and we should do it again awesome dude i've got a spare room you can crash
1:38:42
at mine there you go done we can go and have dinner um thank you man um i will speak to you
1:38:48
soon this has been so much fun awesome thanks so much mate
1:39:04
Thank you.