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Co-Creating Healthier Cultures through quality Conversations · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:39
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:40
  It's, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:41
  Thanks, for tuning in yet again.
• 0:44
  Today, I have a very special colleague, that, I met recently as, she's also a member of the
• 0:51
  Canadian Association of his professional speakers, Doctor.
• 0:54
  Sajal Bellan.
• 0:55
  Hi, Sajal.
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  How are you?
• 0:56
  Great, Roxanne.
• 0:57
  Thanks for having me.
• 0:58
  So so glad you could take a time out of your busy schedule.
• 1:01
  So, Sejal has, particular expertise that I think would be useful to people, listening to
• 1:08
  the podcast.
• 1:09
  And we my brand obviously is talking about authenticity, but Sajal has a very, very
• 1:14
  unique, background.
• 1:16
  And she has a very long CV, so I'm gonna try to hit all the high high spots.
• 1:20
  And if she I miss anything, she's gonna add into it.
• 1:23
  But see if she was a thought leader, in mental Wellness professionals.
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  She's an educator and a professor.
• 1:30
  She specializes in well-being, human connection, positive transformation, and growth
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  for individuals and organizations.
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  She's a member of, the OACC, which is psychotherapy and mental health professional,
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  the association of trauma specialists, with designations as a trauma specialist and the
• 1:53
  International Positive Psychology Association.
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  And she's also a a professional speaker, like I mentioned, earlier with Capps, which is the
• 2:01
  Canadian Association of Professional Speakers And the Global speakers' Professionals
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  Association.
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  That's a mouthful.
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  And she's been a board of directors for the, Canadian Positive Psychology Association.
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  She's an adult educator, and she's developed the 1st Positive psychology to certificates at
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  Wilfred Lori.
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  What a what an achievements, Sage?
• 2:24
  Thank you.
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  Her her passions are basically she researched various, emergency services, which is at an
• 2:33
  interest of mine and something that I've been involved with in a while.
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  And resiliency, post traumatic growth and mental wellness.
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  She brings this not just from an academic frame, what's, very, very important to know is
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  that she also has personal experience, where her husband is a professional firefighter and
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  She's work.
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  She understands the concept of what it is to live with someone that goes out there and deals
• 3:00
  with things that the average person may not even potentially envision or have to
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  experience, daily or even once or twice in their lifetime.
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  So, Sage, is there anything that I've missed?
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  I know there's a lot more, but what is it, that you would want, the to know, about you that I
• 3:19
  haven't captured, in slicing and dicing your, CV.
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  Oh, you you did a lot there, actually.
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  But really I come at, many of our issues organizationally And, even when I look at
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  families and couples from a very systemic perspective, so it's one thing that I've been
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  encountering is a lot of our solutions, and places that people have been concentrating are
• 3:46
  very siloed and then we tend to band aid our situations and finding quick solutions.
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  And what we're finding is that none of these are sustainable and they're not having enough
• 3:56
  impact So certainly when I do my work or programs or even talking to people, it really
• 4:03
  is coming from a very systemic view so that we can have more sustainable success.
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  So for the average person that's listening that does not know what's PTS or PTSD is, If you
• 4:15
  could kind of give them a kind of a working, definition of it and how emergency services
• 4:22
  might get impacted like someone like You're sure, your husband or just the average person,
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  how it would affect when we say system, system could be family, system could be friendships.
• 4:32
  Sure.
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  Sure.
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  Companies, communities, lots of things.
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  It's very, again, this is a very multi layered and mon multi dynamic scenario when we're
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  dealing with PTSD post traumatic stress disorder.
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  And, we're actually calling it PTSD.
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  Now, just because it's you're not always in a disorder state.
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  And I think that's really, really important because that will help to shift stigma that's
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  associated, with mental, illness and which is considered Pete, PTSD is considered under.
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  PTSI, gives us the idea that, you know, we can come in and out of it which I've experienced
• 5:17
  firsthand with my husband as well.
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  So if we think about it, all of us as humans are very resilient.
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  And, you know, we face trauma many times over in our lifetime.
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  And generally speaking, we are wired to cope.
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  And many of us will normalize.
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  Many of us will go through episodes of possibly depression or other coping skills during these
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  journeys, and we come out of it.
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  And it and that's again, as human beings, that's what we're wired for.
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  Sometimes we come across something that is just so devastating to our system, to our emotions,
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  to ourselves that we can't process.
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  And then our brains get stuck in a fight or flight situation, a survival, survival state.
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  And that's where PTSD kind of houses itself.
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  Where we're, you know, super vigilant, hyper vigilant, lack of sleep flashbacks.
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  Our brain brain is having such problems in processing what it is we've experienced or
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  seen.
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  And first responders, just imagine, again, we are all normal human beings.
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  And now all of a sudden you're taking this normal human being that would normally be able
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  to cope and putting them in the face of trauma.
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  Over and over and over again.
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  And sometimes with very little windows in between each incident.
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  So what happens?
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  Just like anybody that would be exposed to a number of, traumatic situations like that.
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  You know, they too reach their capacity or their inability to continue to cope as as we
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  normally would.
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  And some of them will go into addiction.
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  Some of them will have issues at home, but somehow this inability to cope or being stuck
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  in the state manifests itself.
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  And usually if it's not looked after, it's at the detriment of the individual.
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  Right?
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  Or their relationships, their quality of life.
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  And it's really sad because PTSD doesn't affect one person.
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  It has turned our whole life around.
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  And that was 2 years ago, and I can honestly say we were all in crisis.
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  And, you know, I'm really proud to say that 2 years later, not only is my husband doing a
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  phenomenal job, and taking charge of his situation and and coming to where he's gotten
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  to very successfully, but also that we as a couple have been able to do that.
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  And we as a family with our 2 children have been able to manage that.
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  And so when you talk about systems, it's the individual the couple, the family, and now
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  navigating back to work, that's a whole other, whole other venue.
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  Of multiple layers and systems again.
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  Right?
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  So it's really, really interesting.
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  There isn't it it it's not a cookie cutter solution.
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  Absolutely.
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  And it's so, telling.
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  Right?
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  You know, I have to say that when I deal with trauma and I'm in my practice, you know, it'll
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  be like someone will come in and they say, well, the cat ran away and I, all of a sudden,
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  I couldn't do anything.
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  And and I can't believe this is done.
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  This has had the impact on my life, but maybe they've gone through, maybe they've dealt with
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  trauma, maybe they've been true traumatic events, maybe they had trauma as a child.
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  Maybe there was a recent separation.
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  It was a cumulative effect of the running away, which, you know, symbolically everybody, you
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  would say, what's the big deal?
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  But, often, that was the the kind of the the fault in the roof that finally caved in.
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  Absolutely.
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  In in our situation here at home, Vincent responded to a call and it it just sent a flood
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  back.
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  Of all the things that we'd been experiencing over the past decade.
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  And it was so funny because we had done exactly what I talked about.
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  We normalized things.
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  And of course, me as the wife and and and me as just being me was dealing with it through
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  humor.
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  You know, it was a it was a joke when he'd come home from work and he had had a bad day or a
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  bad shift.
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  I was just you know, public enemy number 1 for the day.
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  And I knew just to kinda keep my distance and, you know, when he come around when he felt
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  like.
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  And, you know, I just started using humor as of a way for me to cope.
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  Right.
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  Absolutely.
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  Right.
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  And and so we started to recognize that there was a disconnection.
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  We both saw it.
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  And it was really, really interesting because now in hindsight, we've gone back and reflected
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  on, you know, particular incidences or patterns that we had sort of come up with all on our
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  own.
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  And it's been very, very interesting to see sort of the evolution of how we got to that
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  moment.
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  And then now to see where we're going.
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  So, you know, if there's anything that I can tell people out there is don't give up.
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  It's about putting the right strategies into place and that these things are, you can
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  overcome them and you can keep your relationship intact You can keep yourself
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  intact, and you can lead a very high quality life.
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  You are not broken.
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  It's not very interesting.
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  Right?
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  Because I, you know, over my career, I've dealt with firefighters.
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  I worked at the police at one of my very first jobs was responding crimes and stuff like that.
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  And at the time that I worked with a Metro tournament police, so I'm gonna date myself
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  here, guys.
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  You know, was back, back goodness into 1990.
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  And we there was a team.
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  I don't know if people know victim services, is known very well now.
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  At that point, you were the first one of the first victim services, that existed and the
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  team of 13, there was as an assessment done on all of us, of which they found most of us were
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  on the higher end.
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  And then there was actually one person's suicidal on the team at the time that the
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  assessment was done.
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  So, again, here we are in in times, police officers would say, so we were downtown in
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  headquarters.
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  That's where we would station.
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  And the cops would call us, and we had to answer the bad phone like we called it.
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  And they would say, okay, we've got something.
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  We'd like you to respond and they generally would do a massive cleanup, Sage, before we
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  went out.
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  Mhmm.
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  And they would say, you know, okay, you guys, you know, joking you know, you know, the term,
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  stay in your kind of ivory tower.
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  You social worker psychotherapist, and we'll we'll have you in after everything's clean,
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  which is Right.
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  Exactly what they did.
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  And the impact on our team who are trained people were still human beings with that
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  cumulative effect of of what responding to traumas and it's telling, right, so that, you
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  know, I can still remember my worst cases like it was yesterday.
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  Yep.
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  Reverberating and remembering because it was impactful for me as a human being.
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  At that time, I didn't have children, but the people that had children when we responded you
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  know, the centers of reference, which you would know, which is basically anything that's kinda
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  mimicked or close to our lives.
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  It impacts us more.
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  Yep.
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  And, you know, and then it's it's then harder to I've I've saved, basically ingest it or or
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  find a space for it because it we can really kind of sear our lives in the impact of what's
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  happened right in front of us.
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  And it's really getting that support relative very early to be able to process those symptoms
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  within 24 hours and then within 72 hours to really reprogram or debrief completely to kind
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  of Again, I go through the, you know, advanced digestions of the emotional
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  impact, like, situation.
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  And then still, if there's something else going on in our lives, we still be impacted.
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  So having had personal experience with that, it's it's it's a tough thing.
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  So with, with Vincent,
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  Mhmm.
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  He's been a lot over that 10 years.
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  I'm gonna
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  He has.
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  He has.
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  For sure.
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  And, and then you would kinda try to Minimize it or just kinda try to kinda
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  No.
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  A lot of the time, I didn't even know about it.
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  Well, he didn't talk about it at all.
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  No.
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  And so this is the thing that another thing that we've countered, amongst, some patterns
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  amongst emergency responders is that they wanna keep work at work and home home.
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  And they don't tend to bring, the conversations home.
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  And I would like to sort of challenge that a little bit.
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  And encourage the spouses to open up with spouses because it allows the other spouse to
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  be there for you.
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  Or at least to be aware of what could be happening.
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  And so when you come at this as a couple, you're not alone.
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  And in fact, the marriage can get stronger because now you're being given an opportunity
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  to step up and to be there in the way that a spouse might need you to be.
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  Isn't that interesting, right?
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  Because if you think about it and I can think back to my time, which is the same, but a bit
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  different from what Vincent might have gone through.
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  When you are going through those traumatic events with a partner or or a or a crew,
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  there's a bond that gets developed, you know, that's so so, like, they get me.
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  They get what I do.
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  And I still have a partner.
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  She's one of my very best friends today.
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  We had several near misses.
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  What we could have died, and I'm sure Vincent has multiple stories above that.
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  That bond that got developed with us, Sejal, was so deep because we, in a flash as human
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  beings in a second, knew we could have been gone.
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  So that bot that gets developed, if I if you you're right, if you'd go home and I don't
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  share it with my partner, what I'm doing is really dissing disallowing my partner to
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  understand that space that I was in and finding that, you know, that bonds elsewhere.
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  Would you agree with that or in a different way?
• 15:31
  Yeah.
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  And and what it does, it becomes missed opportunity.
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  And when we tend to experience something on our own and excluding our partner.
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  And again, it it it can then have, sort of really affect of disconnection between the
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  spouses.
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  And then just imagine talking about what you just did where you're building a bond outside
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  at work.
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  And, again, our, dynamics and and, populations that work are changing where we're having males
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  and females working together, you know, people find those connections a little bit stronger
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  perhaps when we become vulnerable who you're gonna go to.
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  You're gonna go to your crew.
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  You're gonna go to your spouse.
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  And so then we're talking again a whole different layer of potential dynamics and
• 16:28
  things that can happen or not happen.
• 16:31
  Right?
• 16:31
  Like, So what I'm suggesting is that, you know, to con continue to have conversations, continue
• 16:39
  to have conversations, at work because I do think those bonds are very, very important, but
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  also have an end to encourage conversations to happen at home.
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  Even the tough ones because it's the tough ones that really help with connection.
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  And that's anytime external or internal to the home.
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  When we break through, when we challenge ourselves to have really tough conversations,
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  things that we don't normally talk about or are really difficult to talk about and we're able
• 17:12
  to work through it with that another person, it brings that relationship closer.
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  It makes that connection tighter.
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  And it just allows us to have stronger bonds that are necessary during times of turmoil.
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  You can't create these connections when you're already in crisis.
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  You need to have these connections in place so that when crisis happens, you're not alone.
• 17:40
  Absolutely.
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  You know, well said, right?
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  Because obviously with a PT s or I, like you're saying, though those symptoms can be there.
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  Right?
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  And we're and obviously, the EMS workers are going back in the next day or whatever.
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  Right?
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  So being able to share, you know, that I went to a call and my goodness, there was a child
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  about the age of, you know, my sons and kind of what I saw the impact on that family.
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  And then I saw, you know, what could happen where did it take me and what did it what am I
• 18:19
  afraid of and what am I grateful for?
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  Those are the deeper conscious conversations as human beings.
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  If we get there, what we
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  do is instead of leaning away, people start to lean towards.
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  Right?
• 18:32
  So That's right.
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  You know, and that what happens is with emergency services, policing, paramedics, or
• 18:39
  firefighters, which I know you know well is that There's that sound stuff.
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  I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in a silo.
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  I'm gonna figure out a silo because I don't know what to do with all these things.
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  Sure.
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  Or I'm already alone.
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  And then we tend to create more alienation or isolation because we don't wanna talk about
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  this.
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  I know Look, I'm coming back to my crew.
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  No one else is experiencing anything, but it's not that they're not experiencing anything.
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  It's that no one's talking about
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  it.
• 19:06
  Right.
• 19:06
  And, you know, that we've seen an increase, frequency of suicides within this population as
• 19:15
  well.
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  And, you know, everyone's talking about suicide after it happens.
• 19:20
  We need to be talking about suicide way before, way before it's even a thought.
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  We need to have these open conversations so that people can recognize you know, what does
• 19:32
  risk look like?
• 19:33
  What does hopelessness look like?
• 19:35
  And what can we do before it gets to these points?
• 19:39
  Right?
• 19:39
  So I want you to to speak to a family member that may be listening.
• 19:45
  Sure.
• 19:45
  I was thinking Okay.
• 19:48
  What's what should I be looking for?
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  And what should I be thinking?
• 19:54
  And how should I what kind of way should I start approaching if I've never approached?
• 19:58
  Because you've been there.
• 19:59
  I mean, as a as a, you know, a couples therapist, I can tell people you know, the
• 20:03
  things that I think, but you've actually been in the trenches with a partner, doing it.
• 20:08
  So what kind of advice would you get to give to any family members or even kids, you know, that
• 20:14
  maybe having experience of mom or dad, whoever's in the in the that role, maybe they
• 20:21
  know there's a bit of a buffer, but they don't know how to intervene.
• 20:23
  What kind of things would you suggest to them, Sage?
• 20:25
  So, basically, I would one of the first telltale signs is when you start to feel
• 20:33
  disconnect.
• 20:34
  Whether it's yourself, or the other person.
• 20:38
  When you start to feel that distancing, so follow your gut when it comes to that.
• 20:43
  And don't be afraid to address it because if we address that when it's smaller, there's still
• 20:50
  room to for us to connect and talk about it.
• 20:53
  What happens over time, if we just let things go, that distancing gets further and further
• 20:58
  apart, and then we're less app to be vulnerable or as open or authentic as we would normally be
• 21:07
  if we were this close.
• 21:09
  So as soon as you start to feel a disconnect in a relationship or between someone you care
• 21:14
  about or even perhaps somebody at work, Just reach out.
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  Talk to them, and it doesn't even have to be deep.
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  It just has to be a point of connection.
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  Find something to laugh about.
• 21:27
  Find something some common ground.
• 21:29
  Let them know you're there.
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  And let them know you care.
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  Because that that would be make can make the difference.
• 21:39
  As, mental health something that I'm asking other mental health professionals to perhaps
• 21:45
  think about in our approach when we talk about suicide We always tend to ask clients.
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  Have you thought about suicide?
• 21:52
  Mhmm.
• 21:53
  Yes or no?
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  Do you have a plan?
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  Yes or no?
• 21:58
  Well, that's where it ends.
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  If the person says that I don't have a plan, they're considered not at risk, and we kind of
• 22:07
  you know, glaze over that and move on to the next thing.
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  We need to go beyond that.
• 22:13
  We need to encourage people To think about.
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  If you ever found yourself in that place, that hopeless place in that moment, What would be
• 22:25
  the one thing that would make you pause?
• 22:30
  Mhmm.
• 22:32
  What would be that one thing?
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  Because just by having that question or having this conversation, you're already implanting
• 22:40
  that thought.
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  The one thing that would stop them or at get them to pause in the moment.
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  So if they ever do find themselves in that position, it's very likely that they're gonna
• 22:53
  come back to this conversation and remember what was that, you know, that thing that was
• 22:58
  gonna make me pause when I was gonna feel like this.
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  Because I will tell you majority of the first responders out there that have committed
• 23:05
  suicide never had a plan.
• 23:09
  It was spontaneous.
• 23:10
  It was in the moment, and it was fast.
• 23:14
  Mhmm.
• 23:14
  And we need to think about that.
• 23:18
  Because it's when we're when they're in our offices, when we're having these conversations,
• 23:24
  it's very unlikely they're gonna say You know, they might admit that, yes, I've thought about
• 23:29
  it because that's becoming more and more known.
• 23:31
  I mean, we all do.
• 23:32
  We all get to this place, right, where it just seems easier.
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  Or or you just wanna end whatever it is that's going on in your head, in your ears, in your
• 23:43
  heart, in your stomach, because it gets very, very powerful.
• 23:47
  But the thing is is that we don't necessarily always have the plan.
• 23:51
  Mhmm.
• 23:52
  Right?
• 23:53
  And I know I've been there because this has been the hardest 2 years of my life.
• 23:57
  Let me tell you.
• 23:58
  You know, I adore my husband to no end.
• 24:02
  And, us figuring out what we figured out.
• 24:06
  It it has been hard.
• 24:08
  And I've navigated this as a professional, but also as a person.
• 24:13
  And I did go to that dark place too because there was a lot of pain.
• 24:17
  And we as human beings will do anything to avoid pain.
• 24:20
  Right?
• 24:22
  And so to think about that one thing that would make you pause,
• 24:26
  Yeah.
• 24:26
  That who.
• 24:27
  Right?
• 24:27
  It's it's a tool.
• 24:28
  Ultimately, it's gonna be that picture of that who is it?
• 24:30
  It could be.
• 24:31
  It could be.
• 24:32
  My I'll tell you, I'll I'll be very blunt about it.
• 24:35
  The thing that makes me pause is what if I don't do it right?
• 24:39
  Oh, wow.
• 24:40
  Yeah.
• 24:40
  Like, that's what's here.
• 24:41
  I do it halfway and
• 24:42
  I Yeah.
• 24:43
  Or I screw it up.
• 24:44
  Because that, you know, because that scares me more than, you know, leaving people behind
• 24:50
  because, again, depending on people's individual situations, the person who's
• 24:56
  thinking about it could be thinking of themselves as a potential burden.
• 25:00
  And if that's the case, they'd see that situation as freeing the other people from this
• 25:06
  burden.
• 25:06
  So it's not always gonna be people.
• 25:08
  Yeah.
• 25:08
  Yeah.
• 25:09
  For sure because or even that disconnection.
• 25:11
  Right?
• 25:12
  Like, I think I lost, somebody that I continued dared to my heart about 3 years ago to suicide,
• 25:19
  and he was, a therapist like us.
• 25:23
  Mhmm.
• 25:23
  And had, you know, was seeing psych psychiatry was on the medication.
• 25:29
  Did all that stuff, Sage.
• 25:31
  And, you know, what what we know from the research is that disconnection between I'm
• 25:36
  gonna I'm thinking this and I'm doing this and, like, what the research shows, like, with Shaw
• 25:41
  says, which I'm sure you know him.
• 25:43
  It's kinda like I did this.
• 25:46
  I'm doing something, but my thoughts finally caught up with it, and that kinda sounds like
• 25:51
  what happened with him.
• 25:52
  His wife, went to get a lottery ticket.
• 25:59
  And this is a man who loved his family.
• 26:02
  Mhmm.
• 26:03
  Breaks my heart.
• 26:04
  I actually dedicated.
• 26:05
  He's in the dedications in the front of my book.
• 26:07
  Because I considered him a very dear friend.
• 26:09
  I loved him as a friend and also a mentor.
• 26:12
  And he would have never hurt his family.
• 26:16
  No.
• 26:17
  No.
• 26:17
  But he committed suicide in his home.
• 26:20
  Yep.
• 26:21
  Right?
• 26:22
  And she said, I spoke to him, then he went to get she went to get the lottery ticket and then
• 26:26
  came back, and then he was he had he had, killed himself.
• 26:30
  So it's I I I hear what you're saying, right, and I really You're right.
• 26:35
  I think as mental health professionals, we really, really need to take that so seriously
• 26:40
  and wreck recognize that that connection, like you said, it could be something so small, when
• 26:46
  we touch people that we don't know, and we have the duty to be able to you know, say whether
• 26:52
  it's a smile.
• 26:52
  Right?
• 26:53
  Like, I have to say a smile's like a hug, you know, or whether you say a a please or a thank
• 26:57
  you, or how are you today?
• 26:59
  You know, those gentle, gentle, little things may make a difference.
• 27:02
  And you're missing out.
• 27:03
  Right?
• 27:04
  So being being connected as human beings are so important in our day to day lives, And then you
• 27:10
  look at people that have like your husband and so many other people that are in EMS that are
• 27:16
  doing a a vital role.
• 27:18
  And then their their shrapnel is attached to them, which is oftentimes emotional.
• 27:23
  And then they they keep us safe and then we send them home to your families.
• 27:28
  And, you know, we have a duty to make sure that we do even more to keep them free so that they
• 27:34
  can go out and do whatever they do very well over again to keep a statement.
• 27:39
  You know?
• 27:39
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  Absolutely.
• 27:41
  And and what's very sad that we've encountered as we've been exploring these conversations
• 27:46
  with more people is that these first responders do their job Do their job exceptionally well.
• 27:54
  Come back with whatever they've seen or can't cope with.
• 27:59
  And haven't noticed or paid attention or made the connection of the deteriorating
• 28:06
  relationships at home and then come home and home is empty.
• 28:12
  And so then this causes a compounding effect.
• 28:14
  Right?
• 28:16
  Yeah.
• 28:17
  So again, there's just so many, so many conversations and so many layers that need to
• 28:21
  be had when we're looking at mental health within the emergency service sector, both
• 28:28
  within the stations and at home.
• 28:29
  And unfortunately, as is as I pointed out earlier, many people are sort of going in these
• 28:38
  circles and creating these band aid solutions and investing money and energy and time versus
• 28:44
  really looking at it from a systemic nature.
• 28:48
  And this is what my work and my research has been done, during my doctoral studies is
• 28:54
  looking at it from a complete systemic and cultural change perspective.
• 29:00
  How to create multiple layers and multiple connections within the system so that no one
• 29:06
  sis system is being totally burdened financially or any resource wise.
• 29:12
  And how we can tap into systems that are not even included in the conversation, like
• 29:18
  families, like communities, you know, like creating bigger networks.
• 29:23
  And if we were to do that, how much more sustainable the change would be but also the
• 29:29
  improving of quality of life for not only the individual emergency services, but their
• 29:35
  families, the communities, and the people that benefit from their services.
• 29:39
  Like, there's just this can be a real snowball effect, but in the right direction if we were
• 29:44
  to look at it.
• 29:44
  Absolutely.
• 29:45
  Because, you know, if you think about it, the more connected we all are to each other.
• 29:50
  Unfortunately, bad things happen in our communities, and we need services.
• 29:55
  And we we we rely on them.
• 29:57
  We don't even think about it.
• 29:58
  Right?
• 29:58
  If you are able to call 911 right now, we expect somebody's gonna be there within
• 30:02
  minutes.
• 30:03
  Absolutely.
• 30:03
  And, you know, they have to be on because that's the expectation of their role, but we
• 30:08
  also have a duty, I think, as a community, and globally even, the more connected and aware we
• 30:15
  are to keep people healthy, then we're we're we're already taking care of each other, and
• 30:20
  we're taking care of our neighbors if that's the way I look at it.
• 30:23
  Right?
• 30:24
  Mhmm.
• 30:24
  Mhmm.
• 30:25
  And it's a, you know, talking about a tough topic that we're talking about today is really
• 30:31
  it's on the opposite, continuum of authenticity, right, because We expect people
• 30:36
  to be too authentic, but when they're going to rough times, what do we tell them, or get over
• 30:43
  it?
• 30:44
  Suck it up buttercup.
• 30:47
  What's the deal?
• 30:48
  They've all been there.
• 30:48
  You know, blah blah blah.
• 30:50
  Yeah.
• 30:50
  And in
• 30:50
  this case, I can tell you, and I'm I know you've seen it in in your practice and and your
• 30:56
  speaking and things like that, same as me, those things don't work.
• 31:00
  No.
• 31:01
  No.
• 31:01
  We need to have conversations.
• 31:03
  We did a a recent talk.
• 31:05
  My husband and I actually went out and, talked for the association, for their professional
• 31:12
  firefighter association where we opened ourselves up and I didn't go in as a mental
• 31:18
  health professional.
• 31:19
  Actually one of the platoon chiefs even said, and he goes, oh, I saw your card doctor and
• 31:23
  rolled my eyes.
• 31:24
  And I said, really?
• 31:26
  And he goes, yeah.
• 31:26
  And he goes, But what you guys did was unreal, and it needs to happen more.
• 31:35
  And we actually walked up in front of the room, and I opened said, I'm not here as a medical,
• 31:40
  sorry, as a mental health professional.
• 31:42
  I'm not here as an educator.
• 31:44
  I'm here as a spouse.
• 31:47
  And my husband's here, and we're gonna open up our living room to you today.
• 31:51
  So you can see what PTSI and so post traumatic stress injury and occupational stress injuries
• 31:58
  look like beyond the textbook, beyond the science in real life, real time, and what it
• 32:06
  really sounds like.
• 32:08
  And, you know, we we actually ran through, kind of scenario that we've named you've got balls.
• 32:16
  And it's it was actually sort of a real mini reenactment of 1 of our most ridiculous fights
• 32:24
  that actually positioned us to actually deal with the situation that we were at.
• 32:31
  You know, and and the time that we were at.
• 32:33
  And the the talk was so powerful and the conversations that happened within our talk
• 32:40
  because we we integrated strategies into the stories.
• 32:44
  We integrated you know, what this looks like now when a return to work situation, people
• 32:50
  opened up in that room.
• 32:52
  We created such a spectacular event with psychological safety that I'm sure
• 32:57
  conversations that haven't been had before, questions that haven't been asked before,
• 33:01
  curiosities.
• 33:03
  It was amazing.
• 33:04
  And these are the types of conversations and more opportunities that we need to have to be
• 33:10
  able to allow people to open up.
• 33:12
  And it can be retired members.
• 33:14
  It can be active members, spouses, families, community, partners, leadership within the
• 33:21
  organizations.
• 33:22
  It this is really key.
• 33:24
  So, you know, Vincent and I are continuing on this journey and speaking to groups both inside
• 33:30
  and outside of the emergency services, anywhere that people wanna create organizational or
• 33:36
  systematic change.
• 33:37
  And have these difficult conversations.
• 33:40
  So, Sage, tell me more where people can get ahold of you.
• 33:46
  I can be reached or you can find more information at sagedlebellon.com.
• 33:51
  That's sagedel bell0n.com, and you can email me at say
• 34:01
  atsagelbellon.comorreachouroffice@info@sagelbellon.com.
• 34:07
  So what they can get from you is to be if they're wanting to speak, let's say there's
• 34:12
  somebody listening and they want to ready just reach out.
• 34:15
  Not sure what they're needing.
• 34:18
  For their organizations.
• 34:19
  They can reach out and you will discuss kind of their needs.
• 34:23
  Absolutely.
• 34:23
  And you do, do you you also do, coaching with couples Is that what I'm telling you?
• 34:28
  Yeah.
• 34:29
  So we I I do a number of things.
• 34:32
  I am a professional adult educator, so I'm able to build strategic training and programs and
• 34:39
  offerings for organizations, which I do, as well as post secondary sector.
• 34:44
  I also offer a couple connection points, conversations, groups.
• 34:51
  I speak in front of groups.
• 34:53
  I have been traveling internationally to, create more, connection cultivation groups as
• 35:00
  well.
• 35:01
  So any any area of interest where people wanna start talking, whether it's, you know, you as
• 35:07
  an individual, I do offer the personal co I do offer group intervention as well.
• 35:16
  I create for organizations and I even help families But right now, the idea is having
• 35:23
  these conversations, creating the spaces for psychological safety.
• 35:28
  And that's what I do.
• 35:29
  So I will do it anywhere and for anyone.
• 35:33
  But at that open to to having this positive change in their life.
• 35:37
  Well, that's awesome.
• 35:38
  What a what a gift, Sage.
• 35:40
  You know, I like you can talk at it about it from one angle, but you've you've you've kind
• 35:46
  of been in it.
• 35:48
  Repairing and putting, you know, kind of taking out the pieces that impacted you from, you
• 35:53
  know, occupational stress and and injury.
• 35:56
  And reintegrating that back into attachment.
• 35:59
  That's what I hear.
• 36:01
  Mhmm.
• 36:01
  And being attached again to a partner, and that comes with a whole other bag of tricks or
• 36:06
  parents and all that stuff, but then you put injury into what what, to be able to, for
• 36:11
  anyone listening, you know, to be able to do that, you know, is a gift back to people, that
• 36:19
  sometimes feel that there's no way out.
• 36:20
  You know, what do I do?
• 36:21
  I can't get through.
• 36:23
  So I would say, please reach out and and and chat.
• 36:26
  Sajal is lovely, and, she would be open to obviously sharing anything and and, maybe you'd
• 36:32
  have the opportunity to see him turn, Vincent at some point, do that skip because that would
• 36:39
  be like I'm thinking I wanna see that scant.
• 36:44
  It's funny.
• 36:46
  It wasn't at the moment, but it is now.
• 36:50
  The 8 we grow from our experiences.
• 36:52
  We do.
• 36:53
  We do.
• 36:54
  There is hope.
• 36:55
  Yeah.
• 36:55
  So, Sejal, thanks so much.
• 36:56
  So for my listeners, yet again, the gifts that we get from just talking and, what I've learned
• 37:04
  is that it's it's so very important.
• 37:06
  We talk about connection.
• 37:09
  But when we want to connect with people that are hurt, sometimes it's hard because we give
• 37:14
  up, but really when it's people that you love, You try even harder.
• 37:18
  And if you think it's bigger than your household, you go outside, you chat with
• 37:22
  somebody like Sajal or myself, or someone that's dear to you that could be that support
• 37:27
  or that anchor to be able to take take the next step.
• 37:31
  So, if you're wanting anything further and you're needing to reach out, you can reach me
• 37:35
  at Roxanne.
• 37:38
  And, I look forward to chatting with you again soon.
• 37:41
  Take care, Sage.
• 37:42
  Thanks, Roxanne, for having me.
• 37:44
  Okay.
• 37:44
  Thank you.
• 37:44
  Okay.
• 37:45
  Take care.
• 37:47
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 37:50
  Create the space for positive, healthy change.
• 37:53
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 38:00
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 38:04
  We'll see you next time.
• 38:05
  An authentic living with Roxanne.