Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 11 - Paul...Who Are You?

Transcript

Ep. 11 - Paul...Who Are You? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  Paul. Paul the Apostle, who before was called
• 0:04
  Saul, after his great travail and unspeakable
• 0:07
  labors in promoting the gospel of Christ, suffered
• 0:10
  also in this first persecution under Nero. who
• 0:30
  told them that surely after they should believe
• 0:32
  and be baptized at his sepulcher. This done,
• 0:37
  the soldiers came and led him out of the city
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  to the place of execution, where he, after his
• 0:43
  prayers made, gave his neck to the sword. Hey
• 1:03
  Paul. Hey Stephen. Welcome to Martyrs Row. Yep.
• 1:08
  Paul, um... It's a big day for me. Oh yeah, it
• 1:12
  is. It's your day. It's the... I don't want to
• 1:17
  be like incredibly morbid. It's like the anniversary
• 1:21
  of your death. I went through like 11 episodes
• 1:22
  for this day. You got it right in the beginning.
• 1:26
  Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah, you lasted 11 episodes.
• 1:29
  That's pretty good. I died right away. Zombie
• 1:35
  apocalypse don't go to your house. Yeah, I Guess
• 1:38
  depending on how you look at it either I won
• 1:40
  or I lost first. I feel like you won I won first.
• 1:44
  Yeah, I was the first winner the first winner
• 1:46
  Yeah, but I get yeah because in in Christianity
• 1:51
  Everybody wins when they're with the Lord. Yeah,
• 1:57
  so everyone's a winner It's a blue ribbon forever.
• 2:01
  That's what we were gonna say. I was gonna ask
• 2:04
  you how you felt about and what your relationship
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  was with Razor scooters. You know what? Mentally
• 2:11
  I love them, but my shins, my ankles can only
• 2:15
  take so much. So I got a Razor scooter for my
• 2:19
  six -year -old son. What color? Blue. That's
• 2:22
  a good color. But they're all like silver. So
• 2:24
  like the whole thing is silver. There's like
• 2:26
  that little accent on the sticker. and then the
• 2:29
  handlebars. Yeah, the grips are, and then it
• 2:32
  says Razor in blue on the thing. So I had one
• 2:37
  of my own growing up, but of course it broke
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  not too long after I got it, because I just put
• 2:42
  that thing through so much stuff. How did it
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  break? In what part of the scooter? It was the
• 2:48
  wheels. Really? Yeah, the wheels started cracking,
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  and then I tried to do too many bunny hops, and
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  the bunny hop spin, you know what I mean? And
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  the whole thing just fell apart. This was probably
• 3:04
  a year into owning it. So my sister - That might
• 3:08
  be an Ohio thing. My sister had one. There's
• 3:09
  a lot of moisture in Florida. It keeps those
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  wheels nice and moist. It keeps it going. But
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  my sister had one and it was pink. Okay. And
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  so that became our Razor Scooter. Classic Power
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  Ranger. So whenever I think of one, I just think
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  of a pink Razor Scooter. Oh, you don't go to
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  yours. No, because mine broke, so I had hers
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  the longer. Oh, okay. Because I didn't want to
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  break it because it was hers. Yeah, that's hilarious.
• 3:33
  No, but the interesting thing about it is like
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  I remember, yeah, I remember like probably middle
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  school for me that Razor scooters were like a
• 3:41
  big thing all of a sudden. Yeah. And it was like,
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  and I was like a skateboard kid. So it was like
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  kind of part of that as well. Like that kind
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  of space. Because it was like you would have
• 3:54
  you would have like skateboarding on tv like
• 3:58
  competitions and then they started having like
• 4:01
  scooter yeah street competitions did you take
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  them on a half pipe no really that feels wild
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  yeah it's pretty wild no i i never did that but
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  there used to be a um there used to be so there
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  still is but there there's a neighborhood south
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  of town where this particular, it's one of those
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  neighborhoods that has a bunch of little neighborhoods
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  in it. And one of the little neighborhoods has
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  this massive uphill cliff. So to get into the
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  neighborhood, you have to go up like a mountain.
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  It's a really steep incline. I actually don't
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  know why they built it that way. It's like 10
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  feet if we're in Florida. No, it's like a couple
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  stories up. Oh really? I'll have to show you
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  at some point. Yeah, please. It's a little weird
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  because it's like you come into the to the big
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  neighborhood and then this particular like sub
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  -neighborhood of it you all of a sudden turn
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  and you're going up a very like you're about
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  to go down a roller coaster. That's so cool.
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  And then when you get to the top of it then it
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  kind of goes off like it goes there's one to
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  the left and then it goes slowly downhill and
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  then you know it ends up landing so it's almost
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  like the entry to that area. That's so awesome.
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  Is like this massive hill. Anyways Like when
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  you get in there's there's two lanes of traffic
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  and then there's like a big median in the middle
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  So like when I was in like middle school, you
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  just bomb that hill with a razor scooter So cool,
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  but all the kids would stay down to like watch
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  for cars because it because if a car came you're
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  dead Yeah, and then at one point they put like
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  like across from where the hill is across the
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  two lanes it was like grass and then really tall,
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  unmowed grass. And so they put a ramp down there
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  so that you could hit the ramp, like go across
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  the two lanes and then hit the ramp. And it was
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  like, I watched so many people like just almost
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  lose their lives. Because it was just like, I
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  don't know, there was something about the extreme
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  sports era of like the late 90s, early 2000s.
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  It's kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I mean,
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  most of those people have really bad, like, most
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  of them, to be honest, are just already dead.
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  But most of the professionals, they're just dead.
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  They've put a lot of work in. Yeah. They've got
• 6:30
  a lot of repairs in their body. Yeah. Yeah, the
• 6:33
  knees aren't factory anymore. No. No, but the
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  thing I was impressed by is I was looking at...
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  Because scooters are like a big thing now for
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  for kids again And so but all that all the yeah,
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  but all the kids scooters now are like tricycles.
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  Oh So they have like So they stand on their own
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  So it's not fair So like yeah, so like on the
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  front post you have one wheel on either side
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  Okay, and then those wheels are actually on hinges
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  left and right Oh, so when you when you push
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  down on one side of the like on the handlebar
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  like you normally would to like turn Yeah, it
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  actually like springs the wheel and it shifts
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  left to right. Is it easier to carve with those
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  then? Definitely. Yeah, they're usually 100 %
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  plastic. Oh, so you don't want to trust no Cuz
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  like if you push too hard it could do weird stuff.
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  Yeah, that's fair but But and then the back wheel
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  is usually two wheels together Okay, so it's
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  like ultra stable. Yeah, that's about as safe
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  as you can get it is but so both both my boys
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  have to get hurt So both my boys have those for
• 7:45
  Christmas I was like, you know, I'm gonna get
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  my oldest like a legit razor scooter and I went
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  and looked at them and They're super cheap. Really?
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  Yeah, and and so I was like, alright, let me
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  just go ahead and get one It looks like it's
• 7:59
  pretty much the same construction. I Get it and
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  like yeah it's like full aluminum like it actually
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  looks better and i want to say it was like 20
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  bucks like on amazon so shout out razor scooter
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  paul's about to be a customer i'm about to buy
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  some well so check this out so um when i was
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  younger i always wanted to own a skateboard okay
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  that was like my dream as a kid To own a skateboard.
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  Because I wanted a skateboard so bad. Paul, I'll
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  get you a skateboard. Thanks. Well, so I was
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  too embarrassed or shy to ask my parents for
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  one. OK. So I was like, they're going to say
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  no. They're going to say it's stupid. I just
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  know it. Because I just had that vibe about it.
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  Because even my older brothers didn't have one.
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  They would borrow their friends on occasion.
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  OK. And I would just see him do an ollie and
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  it's like, that's the coolest thing I've ever
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  seen in my life. It is pretty cool. It's pretty
• 8:55
  awesome. It is, yeah. And it's like, it doesn't
• 8:56
  make any sense in my brain. Sure. Like how, like
• 9:00
  why it works, but it just does. Yeah, there's
• 9:02
  a lot of things that have to happen. It's pretty
• 9:03
  cool. It's actually, even the physics behind
• 9:05
  it is really interesting. Yeah. But so during
• 9:08
  COVID, we're all at home and I'm just like, you
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  know what? Why is that such a common way to start
• 9:13
  a... like story. So during COVID, I did this
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  thing I would have never done before. And you
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  know what, I think a lot of it, I correlate it
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  to a longer like December. And here's what I
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  mean by that. That's extremely emo. That's the
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  most emo thing you could've said. I've never
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  felt more emo than when I talk to you. What I
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  mean by that is like - I equate COVID to a long
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  December. That's the most Midwest thing you could
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  have ever said I'm learning so much about myself
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  Well, it's like I'm a little too observant you
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  are More than I that I even have of myself Well,
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  so it's what's interesting is because I think
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  one of the big things with New Year's resolutions,
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  okay is Leading up to that is the only time a
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  lot of people have where they're not their responsibilities
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  aren't normal Sure. Yeah, you don't have a normal
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  work life. You don't have a normal family life
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  Yeah, because holidays kind of disrupt all that
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  exactly that makes sense. And so it's like it
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  makes us think about ourselves be more introspective
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  and like, oh, what do I want to change? Yeah.
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  And then it's like why they normally fail is
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  because we get back into our normal routine.
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  Yeah. And realize that the two things are not
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  compatible. Yeah. And so with COVID, it kind
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  of removed every boundary. So it's like we have
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  a longer time to really think about ourselves
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  and make more impulsive decisions. Impulsive?
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  Yeah. You like that? It wasn't intentional, but
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  now it is. Also for me, I was like, I've always
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  wanted to own a skateboard. And so I'm just gonna
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  go ahead and just do it. I thought that the story
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  was gonna end with like, when you were 10, they
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  finally got you one. Oh no. It took until COVID.
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  I don't know why I didn't think about that until
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  right now. So think about that. Like you already
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  jumped to COVID. Yeah, so I was 26 years old
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  when I first bought a skateboard. So you were
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  too embarrassed to ask your parents. Your brothers
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  borrowed them from other friends. Yeah. And then
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  when you were 26, you decided to fulfill your
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  childhood dream. 100 % of owning a skateboard.
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  Only because COVID created this scenario for
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  a long emo December. Oh, I was so emo during
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  that time. You're like, I could break a few bones.
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  Yeah, I could do that. Well, it's funny because
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  it's like, I love how I'm learning how to do
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  this, like how to drop it on a bowl at the age
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  of 26 years old. You did that? Yeah. So it's
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  like, I'd mess up my wrist and like, well, I
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  guess I'm out for three months now. That's the
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  crazy thing. When it's like, if I was a kid doing
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  this, it'd be like two days and I'd be back at
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  it. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be better, but
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  yeah. No. But so what I did do is I, after I
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  got a little bit better at it, I established
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  what I called the scoot club. Okay. And so I
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  feel like we should bring it back. So it was
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  like, bring your skateboards, bring your razor
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  scooters. Skate -borg is interesting. Bring your
• 12:23
  cyber skateboard. Your skateboards. That's a
• 12:27
  t -shirt. That is. Yeah. And I was like, let's
• 12:31
  just go downtown and just scoot. OK. And so around
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  Ohio, we just scoot around on skateboards. It
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  was a bunch of 20 -something -year -olds. Here
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  the thing is, we were not doing anything wrong.
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  No one is scooting on a skateboard. People don't
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  scoot on skateboards. Well, I wasn't very good.
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  You scoot on scooters. But you ride skateboards.
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  When you say scoot, I think you're sitting on
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  it. I was better on a scooter than I was on a
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  skateboard at the time. I hear that to be true,
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  the way you're talking about it. So I was like,
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  guys, we're scootin'. So it's the Scoot Club.
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  Just a bunch of scooters. Yeah, and then when
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  I came to Florida, I reestablished it, but it
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  was all skateboards at that point. So it was
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  like, I guess it's still the Scoot Club, but
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  we're just on skateboards. Oh, so it originally
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  came from being on scooters. Yeah. Well, that
• 13:22
  makes way more sense. Yeah, yeah. OK. But it
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  kind of like there are people with skateboards.
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  It's like, yeah, you're part of it, of course.
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  OK. But then I realized after I broke, I didn't
• 13:31
  break them, but like I really messed up both
• 13:33
  my wrists at the same time. Yeah. I was like,
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  OK, maybe I shouldn't keep doing this. Yeah.
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  And I realized that I actually just liked cruising,
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  then doing tricks. So now I just have a long
• 13:46
  board that I ride. That makes way more sense.
• 13:48
  Yeah, I used to ride it to church all the time.
• 13:50
  That fits your vibe a little bit better. Yeah.
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  Our pastor used to make fun of me a lot. Also,
• 13:55
  he would not make fun of me, but he used to laugh.
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  He's like, yeah, you're coming out on your skateboard
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  all the time. You could still ride a longboard
• 14:02
  in a bowl, depending on the bowl. That's true.
• 14:05
  Yeah. Or they make shorter longboards, but with
• 14:09
  the same type of trucks and wheels set up. Because
• 14:11
  actually, so the one I have right now, it's actually
• 14:13
  a skateboard, but I bought bigger wheels for
• 14:16
  it, and I added some risers to the trucks. So
• 14:20
  it actually is a skateboard with cruiser wheels
• 14:24
  on it. That can get tricky. It's pretty nice.
• 14:26
  I really like it. It's a cushy ride. I like that.
• 14:30
  You think that Paul, in the first century, wrote
• 14:33
  a... had a scoot club. So you know what's funny?
• 14:37
  And this is where I was thinking of like - First
• 14:38
  century Paul had a scoot club. I was thinking
• 14:41
  of like, do I want to tie it back this way? But
• 14:44
  you know, when you think about how zealous Paul
• 14:49
  was - Sorry, it's just such a leap. but you think
• 14:55
  about like he was an extreme person yes he was
• 14:58
  and it's like i wouldn't be surprised if he was
• 15:02
  right next to tony hawke what are you talking
• 15:04
  about if he's just like yeah i'm gonna free solo
• 15:06
  that mountain because in his mind he's like i'm
• 15:12
  gonna single -handedly bring the gospel to every
• 15:14
  nation i mean i could see that like paul was
• 15:17
  pretty intense he was an intense person yeah
• 15:20
  yeah he didn't didn't get thrown off a boat at
• 15:22
  some point too. Yeah, it's, yeah, that's true.
• 15:26
  He got stoned at one point. Yeah. And he's just
• 15:29
  like, well, that hurt. Like hit with stones.
• 15:32
  Yeah. He didn't get stoned. Well, they tried
• 15:35
  to like stone him. Yeah, they tried to stone
• 15:37
  him. Yeah. Paul didn't just, you know, 21st century
• 15:40
  get stoned. Yeah, that's true. We are talking
• 15:45
  about skateboarding. With the intent of killing
• 15:48
  him. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. So that, I mean,
• 15:53
  that is, man, that is a, that is a funny thing
• 15:56
  because Paul, yeah, Paul is the, uh, is definitely
• 16:00
  the extreme sport apostle. Yes, like if there
• 16:05
  were going to be an extreme sport apostle The
• 16:09
  if he was emo, he'd be the most he's the No,
• 16:14
  he wasn't emo. I would say Peter was the most
• 16:16
  emo. That's true He was the most Paul was the
• 16:20
  most daredevil That's that's where I was going.
• 16:23
  Yeah. Yeah, Paul was the daredevil apostle. Yeah,
• 16:26
  absolutely Peter was like the he's like trying
• 16:30
  to make himself feel bad for all the things he's
• 16:33
  done. He just like revels in his shame a little
• 16:36
  bit. He likes to, yeah. It's so true. Peter's
• 16:42
  the emo, emo guy. And then the Sons of Thunder,
• 16:46
  of course. We should have an emo band just called
• 16:47
  Peter. It's just the layers to that. I'm actually
• 16:50
  surprised there's not like a metal band called
• 16:52
  Sons of Thunder. There's gotta be. There has
• 16:55
  to be. Let us know if there is. Comment below.
• 16:58
  Hey, Sons of Thunder that are watching this.
• 17:00
  sponsor us. We'll play your song for an intro.
• 17:04
  We'll swap out your song for our intro song.
• 17:06
  Oh, that'd be cool. Have them do the segment.
• 17:09
  Yeah. Come on, Sons of Thunder. Let's do it.
• 17:12
  Sons of Thunder. I don't actually know right
• 17:14
  now. I don't know if there is a band called Sons
• 17:16
  of Thunder. I don't either, but I want there
• 17:18
  to be. Yeah. It's gonna be some Swedish band.
• 17:21
  Norwegian. They're gonna be like Brother, Sister.
• 17:26
  They've never seen the sun before. They're music
• 17:27
  or rock though. They'll fit us perfectly. Yeah,
• 17:32
  it's true. A couple of... A Midwest emo and a
• 17:37
  wannabe Midwest emo. An Icelandic brother and
• 17:39
  sister who've never seen the sun. I guess Iceland,
• 17:44
  they have. Maybe I should say Greenland. That's
• 17:47
  confusing. Yeah, it's a little confusing. Yeah,
• 17:50
  but Paul the The daredevil Apostle, yeah, he
• 17:56
  would not have been in the scoot club. Okay.
• 17:59
  Here's a t -shirt idea. Okay But he's like, you
• 18:05
  know like dropping in okay on a skateboard So
• 18:07
  like so if you're so if you're gonna make this
• 18:10
  graphic for us, which please do please I want
• 18:14
  to see it. Yeah email. It's a Paul at MartyrsRoad
• 18:17
  .com. You're laughing, but you can actually do
• 18:21
  that. I just don't have access to it right now.
• 18:25
  I never got the email. But please send it to
• 18:29
  me. I will do everything I can to make sure it
• 18:33
  reaches as many people as possible. Just go on
• 18:36
  and find a picture of Tony Hawk. In a bowl or
• 18:40
  something and then just give them a robe replace
• 18:43
  it. Yeah, put a robe put it puts that holding
• 18:45
  man put sack cloth on them and then and then
• 18:51
  try and find like try it try and go into like
• 18:54
  the archive of the Vatican and find any image
• 18:57
  that was created of Paul and And just replace
• 19:01
  it. I'm sure AI could do that pretty easily.
• 19:04
  Yeah, in fact But I want real artists to do that.
• 19:07
  Go a step further. Don't just draw it. Actually
• 19:10
  make a gif of Paul. Or better yet, do this Paul
• 19:18
  dressed up in sackcloth. Do Paul Yuley dressed
• 19:23
  up in sackcloth. That would be awesome. Doing
• 19:26
  the rotation of Tony Hawk. That's it. I would
• 19:32
  love that. Now we're just building memes. Yeah,
• 19:36
  it's good. I'm here for that. We need that. Yeah,
• 19:38
  we've reached that point. Yeah, Paul, I'm ready
• 19:41
  to sing a song. Me too. You ready? I'm ready.
• 19:44
  Three, two, one. All right, here we go. All right.
• 19:49
  We've had, I feel like we've had a couple of
• 19:50
  episodes leading up to this one that have been
• 19:53
  like, hey, here's a fully prepared song. Yeah.
• 19:58
  And then I think the last one that you did, we
• 20:01
  somehow got to a second verse. which was kind
• 20:05
  of fun. Yeah, I feel like I've been coming with
• 20:07
  like a verse one and a chorus, and then I'm like,
• 20:10
  okay, you figure out verse two. Yeah, and it
• 20:12
  worked last time. Yeah. And then... Which is
• 20:15
  funny because I think I was, I don't know if
• 20:17
  it was episode two or episode three that I was
• 20:19
  just editing. Okay. Which is... Kind of weird
• 20:22
  to say this. It's going to be hard for them to
• 20:25
  do the math on that. Yeah, true. And what's funny
• 20:28
  about it is, because that's the one where I feel
• 20:30
  like one of those, we didn't actually have an
• 20:32
  idea at all, and we were really just riffing.
• 20:35
  And I was like, wow, we're in a different place
• 20:38
  now. I think we've only had like one or two of
• 20:42
  those. There's only been a handful, yeah. Well,
• 20:43
  that wasn't the Andrew one, was it? No, no, no.
• 20:45
  Okay. No. It was like our country one. Oh, that
• 20:49
  one was bad. That was pretty bad. Was that the
• 20:52
  one where we ended? I just went back to week
• 20:54
  one. I think so. Okay, because I think I actually
• 20:56
  had something week one. Yeah, week one was cool.
• 20:59
  That still feels like it was memorable, but...
• 21:02
  It must have been episode three then. Yeah. Yeah,
• 21:05
  we need some suggestions. Like, I like the...
• 21:08
  I like that we haven't done like, here's a song
• 21:13
  you already know, and we're just writing. Yeah,
• 21:16
  just alternate lyrics. That can be fun. Yeah.
• 21:19
  But I like that we're just kind of like, the
• 21:21
  whole thing is organically just happening. Out
• 21:24
  of nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little
• 21:25
  ex nihilo. Which I think is cool for the people
• 21:30
  that are songwriters. They get to see someone
• 21:33
  else's process, which is kind of the beauty of...
• 21:36
  It was like, even though this isn't really a
• 21:38
  process. No, no, no. It's not that. My response
• 21:41
  to that was like, I'm sorry if you are an actual
• 21:44
  songwriter. Absolutely. But I think it's funny.
• 21:46
  It's like people that are, it's like, oh, everyone
• 21:48
  else suffers too. Yeah. And the people that aren't,
• 21:51
  they're like, oh, that's what it looks like.
• 21:52
  But we just like, I mean, I mean, you and I were
• 21:55
  just in a songwriting session last weekend and,
• 21:59
  you know, one song can be four or five hours.
• 22:02
  Yeah. where you're just kind of laboring over
• 22:04
  something because you want it to be good. You're
• 22:06
  also searching for it. You're trying to get past
• 22:09
  your brain a little bit. This is not a true songwriting
• 22:13
  session. However, it's as authentic as we're
• 22:19
  telling you it is. Sometimes we'll come in and
• 22:21
  be like, hey, this just popped into my head.
• 22:24
  Beforehand, I had a little bit of time to work
• 22:26
  it out. Let me show it to you. Which I mean is
• 22:28
  the difference between like an actual like sit
• 22:31
  down songwriting where it's like right now it's
• 22:34
  like this is just the first idea that comes to
• 22:35
  our head. Yes. Which if it was a real like sit
• 22:38
  down let's write this. Yeah. You present the
• 22:41
  first idea then you spend an hour working through
• 22:44
  that idea. Yeah you kind of go like hey I have
• 22:46
  this unique thought. Yeah. And then build off
• 22:49
  of that. It's like let's explore that thought.
• 22:51
  Yeah. Which that's so it's fun, especially if
• 22:54
  you don't put any boundaries on it like put any
• 22:56
  parameters on it Yeah, and then you just refine
• 22:58
  it as it goes but it's pretty cool but like um
• 23:03
  one of the things that we've been doing here
• 23:05
  on martyrs row is any anytime like this episode,
• 23:12
  um I don't have I just had a general thought
• 23:15
  and uh at some point today and I I feel like
• 23:19
  it's safe to say I mean correct me if i'm wrong
• 23:22
  Any song that we've done, even pre -prepared,
• 23:25
  still was written on the day of the episode recording.
• 23:28
  Yeah. I think everything that I've brought here
• 23:30
  has been same day. Yeah. At best, it's been like
• 23:34
  two hours before the episode. And we're not telling
• 23:36
  you that to impress you. No. We're telling you
• 23:39
  that to give ourselves a little grace. 100%.
• 23:43
  But the goal is to like, you know, we want this
• 23:47
  podcast to be as much things that we like in
• 23:49
  segments of that as possible so that we can have
• 23:52
  as much fun as possible. And if you listen, sweet,
• 23:56
  let us know you're listening. Yeah, so I asked
• 24:00
  Paul just quickly to write down all the martyrs
• 24:04
  that we've talked about so far. So this is episode
• 24:07
  11, and that means we've talked about 11 martyrs
• 24:13
  at this point. I think technically 10. Because
• 24:18
  episode one was like the intro. Oh, you're right.
• 24:21
  So I think ten martyrs because episode one was
• 24:24
  like the Setting the scene. Yep. Yeah. Oh in
• 24:28
  little a little Easter egg We did the trailer
• 24:33
  episode zero. Yeah At some point within the first
• 24:38
  ten episodes. Yeah, because we kind of did episode
• 24:42
  one as like This needs to be our introductory
• 24:45
  episode. But in reality, we didn't really fully
• 24:48
  have a format. It just kind of happened in that
• 24:50
  first episode. And it's kind of amazing how much
• 24:52
  we've stuck with that just happened organically.
• 24:55
  Yeah, we just have been refining it. Yeah. But
• 24:58
  then at some point in the last 10 episodes, or
• 25:01
  in the first 10 episodes, that's a weird way
• 25:03
  to say that. In the first 10 episodes, we recorded
• 25:06
  an episode zero. So comment below if you know
• 25:10
  which episode. that after that episode within
• 25:15
  the first 10, this is not gonna make any sense.
• 25:18
  If you can guess which episode we recorded episode
• 25:21
  zero at, then we'll give you a thumbs up. Maybe
• 25:26
  it'll force us to finally make t -shirts. Yeah,
• 25:29
  we'll give you a pocket tee that says Scoot Club.
• 25:34
  Scooter Club, Martyrs Row. That would actually
• 25:37
  be kind of sick. They're kind of sick. Paul's
• 25:39
  Scoot Club. Members only. I would do that. They're
• 25:42
  kind of sick. Yeah. I'm down for that. And then
• 25:45
  the graphic is what people submit as Paul dropping
• 25:50
  in. Oh, yes. The Apostle Paul dropping in. I'm
• 25:52
  down for that. That would be so sick. All right.
• 25:54
  Well, so you know what you're going to get. So
• 25:57
  you better draw something nice. Is this segment
• 25:59
  done? You have to play something. There's been
• 26:03
  no song. True, they haven't even heard a sound
• 26:06
  yet. It's got a hum if they need to. All right,
• 26:09
  so there's actually something really complete
• 26:11
  about this. I didn't think about it till now.
• 26:13
  I'm looking at the list. Oh. Yeah. Interesting.
• 26:20
  Paul's realizing it as well. So at this point
• 26:22
  with the first 10 martyrs, Steven is the first
• 26:26
  one. Hi, I'm Steven. Paul is the tenth one And
• 26:33
  that's how if you have it if this is your first
• 26:36
  episode or the last episode was your first episode
• 26:39
  or whatever Then you may not know that like the
• 26:42
  whole reason this podcast kind of came about
• 26:44
  was The conversation that Paul and I had and
• 26:47
  he was kind of making a joke. Yeah And he was
• 26:55
  like so there's something I've been wanting to
• 26:57
  ask you since we've met As a Stephen, is it weird
• 27:03
  talking to a Paul? And if you don't know, go
• 27:06
  back and watch the first couple of episodes.
• 27:08
  Because right now it's time to write a song.
• 27:10
  It's time. But now we have like this complete
• 27:14
  10 names. So my thought was like, maybe we could
• 27:20
  do like a 12 days of Christmas type thing. What
• 27:26
  do you think, Paul? I like it. The 12 martyrs
• 27:29
  of... It would be 10, but yeah. Or 10, yeah.
• 27:32
  12 would make way more sense though. We'll do
• 27:35
  it again in two episodes. Okay, I'm down for
• 27:40
  that. What if we write the first 10... And then
• 27:43
  we add two? And we add two. Yeah, I'm just doing
• 27:45
  math. Is this guitar on? Is it? I think so. It's
• 27:54
  a free light it'll be very quiet. It's all right.
• 27:56
  We can make it louder. Yeah So again, I don't
• 28:03
  even On the first day of martyrdom On the first
• 28:08
  day of martyrdom On the first day of martyrdom
• 28:12
  The people chose to kill Is that what we have
• 28:20
  to do? Unfortunately that's what My thought was...
• 28:25
  On the first day of martyrdom, the people chose
• 28:28
  to kill... Steven! How did we get here? Okay,
• 28:38
  let me pick a different key. Because otherwise
• 28:41
  we're gonna be like... I'd be shouting. I do
• 28:43
  like the... Like the monk, like... On the first
• 28:48
  day of martyrdom. We're like droning Try that
• 28:58
  again take a clean take Even the way you had
• 29:08
  your hands by the way if you're just listening
• 29:11
  to this you're missing a lot The people chose
• 29:21
  to care... The problem is... The problem is is
• 29:25
  that's too good. Like we have to just... We have
• 29:29
  to just go with it. Like that's the whole thing
• 29:31
  with songwriting is like... You just run with
• 29:33
  it. It's like that... How is that the... How
• 29:37
  is that already the best idea? On the first day
• 29:48
  of martyrdom, the people chose to kill Stephen
• 29:51
  the Great. Nope. Oh, Stephen with rocks? Yeah,
• 29:56
  I get Stephen with rocks. What was Stephen's
• 30:00
  last name? Um... Martyr? From something? From?
• 30:06
  Stephen the Martyr, yeah. Stephen the Martyr.
• 30:08
  On the first day of martyrdom... It kind of is.
• 30:18
  The fact that we're making it a holiday. The
• 30:24
  first day of martyrdom. Forgive us Catholics.
• 30:28
  And Jesus probably. Catholics are watching this
• 30:32
  like, this is the problem with Protestants. And
• 30:37
  you're washing your hands in their holy water.
• 30:40
  Did I tell that story? Yeah. Okay, good. Wait,
• 30:45
  well how does it go now cuz that's all that's
• 30:46
  in my head on the first day of martyrdom Wait
• 30:58
  is that was that actually our line Okay, here
• 31:09
  we go you asked for it and if you're not Watching
• 31:13
  I just pointed out you You got serious for a
• 31:18
  minute went into tempo All right, I guess I'll
• 31:24
  take the first one That was the first one yeah,
• 31:38
  but then there's another like Okay, okay, well
• 32:03
  the second one to make a little easier Wait,
• 32:06
  how was Philip killed? I feel like we need to
• 32:09
  look this stuff up, too. How do we how does the
• 32:11
  melody actually go? Wait, wait, wait. Use your
• 32:33
  mic. Yeah, you're right every time we sing you're
• 32:37
  like off mic sound like come on Paul sound like
• 32:39
  let me figure this out so I'm not embarrassed
• 32:41
  Yeah, you're right. I mean how how how could
• 32:44
  you be further embarrassed at this point? You'd
• 32:48
  be surprised Wait, so then it's like on the second
• 32:52
  day of person or a second day of martyrdom the
• 32:54
  fuel just to kill That's James it would be great.
• 33:00
  Yeah, James the great And Steven with rocks.
• 33:05
  Okay, let's do it. I'm ready. And Steven with
• 33:08
  rocks. James the hooker. And Steven with rocks.
• 33:19
  I'm so glad I didn't play anything. Oh wait,
• 33:24
  there's also like a five golden rings moment.
• 33:27
  Wait, is that James the less? Hey, this is kind
• 33:39
  of his greatest moment oh Man all right. Yeah,
• 33:43
  cuz James the great gets a very small part Should
• 33:48
  we add Steven the martyr with rocks does it sing
• 33:51
  better try it Wait. Stephen the martyr with rocks.
• 34:04
  That's way better. That's way better. Not as
• 34:07
  funny. No, I wish we remembered his last name.
• 34:11
  Did he have one? No, no, no. None of them did.
• 34:13
  It was always like where they were from. Where
• 34:17
  was Stephen from? I actually don't know. I don't
• 34:20
  remember. Me neither. Gotta go back to episode
• 34:22
  two for that. Yeah, we probably talked about
• 34:25
  it. Alright. On the first day of martyrdom the
• 34:34
  people chose to kill Steve, Steve and the Martyr
• 34:38
  with rocks On the second day of martyrdom the
• 34:46
  people chose to kill James the Great and Steve
• 34:51
  and the Martyr with rocks On the third day of
• 34:56
  martyrdom the people chose to kill Philip in
• 34:59
  the face Wasn't he with an axe? I'm having too
• 35:15
  much fun with this Okay, we probably just need
• 35:44
  to go for it. I was gonna let that one be short.
• 35:54
  Fill up in the face. It just kinda flowed. It
• 35:58
  did, it was perfect. Alright, here we go. Matthew,
• 36:47
  the tax collector. That's too many words. Where
• 36:51
  did autism come from? I think it was from the
• 36:53
  Chosen. Oh, really? Because they gave them autism
• 36:57
  in the Chosen. Well, I have not watched The Chosen.
• 37:03
  I think that was one of the controversial things
• 37:05
  they did in there. That feels very left -field.
• 37:08
  Is that because he was a tax collector? Probably.
• 37:10
  Okay, so - I don't know why they - when I watched
• 37:12
  it I was like, they definitely gave him that.
• 37:16
  Matthew and his tax? That's gotta be it. Yeah,
• 37:20
  that'll work, that'll work. Let's just start
• 37:22
  from there. On the fourth day of martyrdom the
• 37:25
  people chose to kill Matthew and his tacks, Philip
• 37:29
  in the face, James the Great, and William in
• 37:33
  the martyr with rocks. On the fourth day of martyrdom
• 37:38
  the people chose to kill James the Great, and
• 37:45
  William in the martyr with rocks. On the fourth
• 37:47
  day of martyrdom the people chose to kill James
• 37:47
  the Great, and William in the martyr with rocks.
• 37:47
  On the fourth day of martyrdom the people chose
• 37:47
  to kill James the Great, and William in the martyr
• 37:48
  with rocks. On the fourth day of martyrdom the
• 37:48
  people chose to kill James the Great, and William
• 37:48
  in the martyr with rocks. On the fourth day of
• 37:48
  martyrdom the people chose to kill James the
• 37:48
  Great, and William in the martyr with rocks.
• 37:48
  On the fourth day of martyrdom the people chose
• 37:48
  to kill James the Great, and William in the martyr
• 37:48
  with rocks. On the fourth day of martyrdom the
• 37:48
  people chose to kill James the Great, and William
• 37:50
  in the martyr with rocks. He met the martyr with
• 37:52
  rocks On the sixth day of martyrdom the people
• 38:02
  chose to kill Matthias was an afterthought James
• 38:08
  Thomas Matthew with his tacks Philip in the base
• 38:14
  James It's T in the Marder Winthrop on the seventh
• 38:22
  day of Christmas. Wait. Alright, I feel like
• 38:30
  we need to start writing these down. They'll
• 38:33
  remember them. Okay, so let's talk briefly really
• 38:36
  quick. Andrew, Andrew is, we're doing pretty
• 38:40
  good at this. It's actually not bad. Matias?
• 38:44
  Matias? The afterthought? The afterthought! Because
• 38:48
  Matias is the replacement of Judas. Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:53
  Makes sense. Matias the... substitute? Yeah.
• 38:58
  Matias substitute. That's just his last name.
• 39:01
  That's his last name. Oh boy. And then Andrew.
• 39:06
  Son of Zebedee? Yeah, we can rock with that.
• 39:10
  Mark. wrote for Peter. Yeah. Peter made Mark
• 39:17
  wrote. Made Mark write. Peter the Rock. We'll
• 39:21
  just go, yeah, yeah. All right, we're at seven,
• 39:25
  so oh boy, here we go. And then Paul was very
• 39:27
  small. How about Paul? Here, we'll get there.
• 39:37
  You got some special friends. On the seventh
• 39:40
  day of martyrdom, the people chose to kill Andrew,
• 39:45
  son of Zebedee, Matthias' substitute James the
• 39:51
  Less Matthew and his tacks, Philip in the face
• 39:56
  James the Great and Stephen the Martyr with rocks
• 40:00
  On the eighth day of martyrdom, the people chose
• 40:05
  to kill Mark who wrote for Peter, Andrew in...
• 40:10
  Son of Devon E. Matthias. Substitutes. James
• 40:16
  the last. Matthew and his tags fill up in the
• 40:21
  face. James the great. And Stephen the martyr
• 40:25
  with Ross. On the ninth day of martyrdom the
• 40:30
  people chose to kill Peter who... Peter the Rock.
• 40:34
  Peter called the rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Peter
• 40:37
  is the rock. Peter is the rock. Yeah, that's
• 40:42
  better. On the ninth day of martyrdom, the people
• 40:47
  chose to kill Peter called the rock. Oh, yep.
• 40:53
  You switched it on me. You said Peter called
• 40:58
  the rock. And then you're like, Peter is the
• 41:00
  rock. Oh, that is better. Well, we did both.
• 41:02
  Oops. What was Mark? Road for Peter. That's right.
• 41:07
  On the ninth day of martyrdom the people chose
• 41:10
  to kill Peter called the Rock Oh boy. On the
• 41:29
  night Peter martyred them the people just to
• 41:32
  kill. Peter called the Rock, Mark wrote for Peter,
• 41:36
  Andrew's ebony. The tiniest substitute, Chazaless.
• 41:45
  Matthew and his tacks, Philip in the face, James
• 41:49
  the Great, and Stephen the martyr with rocks.
• 42:00
  Okay, I haven't been doing that. It's fine. Alright.
• 42:04
  On the 10th day of martyrdom the people chose
• 42:09
  to kill Paul who killed Stephen Peter. That's
• 42:17
  what it has to be. Alright, here we go. Perfect.
• 42:24
  On the... The tenth day of martyrdom the people
• 42:28
  chose to kill Paul, who killed Stephen Peter,
• 42:32
  is the rock. Mark, wrote for Peter. Andrew, Zebedee,
• 42:37
  Matthias, and Justin too. Jaisalus! Paul just
• 42:46
  passed out. We have to get this clean. One clean,
• 42:50
  one clean. This is gonna be our hit. This is
• 42:52
  actually pretty good. This is our Christmas album.
• 42:56
  This can be our lint album. Oh, so true. Okay,
• 43:01
  two three four On the tenth day of martyrdom
• 43:06
  the people chose to kill Paul who killed Stephen
• 43:10
  Peter in the rock Mark who wrote for Peter the
• 43:14
  June 70th Italian substitute James the last Matthew
• 43:21
  and his tax Philip in the face James the great
• 43:25
  and Stephen the martyr with rocks I could not
• 43:32
  hold it together. We got to get that clean one
• 43:37
  more time. I was changing the chords on there.
• 43:39
  Oh, you're good. I'm just trying not to laugh.
• 43:47
  All right. Last time and then I promise, guys,
• 43:49
  we'll move on to the next thing. This is our
• 43:52
  rendition of the 12 days of Christmas called
• 43:55
  the 10 days of martyrdom. And counting. There's
• 44:01
  more to come. Oh, we have to start from the beginning,
• 44:09
  go all the way through. There's no way we can.
• 44:11
  There's no way we can. Wait, we have to. That's
• 44:12
  the whole song. There's no way. You just want
• 44:15
  to start from ten? No, we have to do the whole
• 44:18
  thing. Okay. One take, whatever happens happens.
• 44:20
  Do you want to alternate both people at the same
• 44:21
  time? I mean, it would help if we alternated.
• 44:24
  Yeah, it would help. Okay. So... So you start
• 44:30
  with Stephen and then we kind of just... Yeah,
• 44:32
  because then you'll end with Paul and then we
• 44:33
  both do James. Perfect. Okay. Which James? The
• 44:38
  less. The least of these. On the first day of
• 44:46
  martyrdom the people chose to kill Stephen the
• 44:50
  Martyr with rocks On the second day of martyrdom
• 44:55
  the people chose to kill James the Great and
• 44:59
  Stephen the Martyr with rocks On the third day
• 45:04
  of martyrdom the people chose to kill Philip
• 45:07
  in the face James the Great and Stephen the Martyr
• 45:12
  with rocks On the fourth day of martyrdom the
• 45:18
  people chose to kill Matthew and his tacks, Philip
• 45:22
  in the face, James the Great, and Stephen the
• 45:27
  martyr with rocks. On the fifth day of martyrdom
• 45:31
  the people chose to kill James the Great. Matthew
• 45:38
  and his tacks, Philip in the face, James the
• 45:42
  Great, and Stephen the Martyr. On the 6th day
• 45:48
  of martyrdom the people chose to kill Matthias
• 45:51
  substitute James the last Matthew and his tax
• 45:58
  Philip in the face James the great and Stephen
• 46:02
  the martyr with rocks On the 7th day of martyrdom
• 46:07
  the people chose to kill Andrew son of Zebedee
• 46:11
  Matthias substitute James the last, Matthew and
• 46:19
  his tax, Philip in the face, James the great,
• 46:22
  and Stephen the martyr with rocks. On the seventh
• 46:27
  day of martyrdom, the eighth killed. On the eighth
• 46:35
  day of martyrdom, the people chose to kill. Mark
• 46:39
  wrote for Peter, Andrew son of Zebedee, Chase
• 46:45
  the less! What's high? The Matthew in his text.
• 46:49
  Philip in the face. Chase the grave. Stephen
• 46:53
  the martyr with rocks. On the night of the day
• 46:58
  of martyrdom the people chose to kill. Peter
• 47:02
  is the rock. Mark who wrote for Peter. Andrew
• 47:06
  son of Zebedee. Matthias substitute. Chase the
• 47:12
  less! On the tenth day of martyrdom, the people
• 47:38
  chose to kill who killed Stephen. Peters is the
• 47:45
  Rock. Mark wrote for Peter. And your son of Zebedee.
• 47:49
  Matthias substitute. James the Less. Matthew
• 47:56
  and his tax. Philip in the face. James the Great.
• 48:00
  And Stephen the Marder with the Rocks. Three,
• 48:08
  two, one. Man that was a good song that was my
• 48:13
  actually one of my favorites Just in time for
• 48:19
  whatever holiday is coming up for you we do bar
• 48:22
  mitzvahs That song only Which might be weird
• 48:30
  It'll take us a whole event to do it once clean
• 48:36
  The idea though that it's a Jewish Boy, coming
• 48:42
  of age, and we're talking about stealing Christians.
• 48:48
  Hey, it's called a doll head. I mean, wow. Yeah.
• 48:52
  They still like to see it, I guess. Hey. Oh,
• 48:56
  man. We might have to change the rating on this
• 49:02
  podcast as we keep going It becomes less family
• 49:07
  -friendly as we go our descriptions just don't
• 49:11
  listen Viewer discretion advised Make sure it's
• 49:16
  late at night when you listen Yeah, all right,
• 49:20
  so So we're gonna do something slightly different.
• 49:23
  I mean one of the things that is I think fun
• 49:26
  is that we kind of pick The things that we're
• 49:29
  most interested about and we go really really
• 49:32
  deep into it and we try and just sit on one subtopic
• 49:36
  Yeah, which which is always exciting to me because
• 49:39
  it's like how do we like? Alright, we we climb
• 49:42
  down into this room Let's actually look around
• 49:44
  in it instead of like opening a hatch and looking
• 49:48
  down into and going that's down there You know,
• 49:51
  yeah. Yeah, like instead of doing that and staying
• 49:54
  above the surface I think one of the things that
• 49:57
  we've loved doing is actually going down into
• 49:59
  those Subcategory rooms and kind of living there
• 50:03
  for a little bit. Yeah, really explore. Like
• 50:05
  what's the full area look like here? Yeah, yeah
• 50:07
  so I think Because this is the inaugural Episode
• 50:16
  I Guess 10 officially right no 11 11. Yeah, but
• 50:21
  this would be our 10th martyr and we are now
• 50:24
  at Paul We decided maybe we spend a little bit
• 50:29
  more time in this episode all the way through
• 50:32
  all the segments talking about Paul. So my question
• 50:38
  for you is, Paul, who are you? I'm so glad you
• 50:45
  asked. I have a prepared statement. Paul, tell
• 50:51
  us who you are. Frankly, I am. Circumcised on
• 50:57
  the eighth day You can't do the whole thing like
• 51:02
  that You can't do the whole thing like that No
• 51:04
  I can't I forgot you said you were gonna do that
• 51:11
  This is a little bit behind the curtain After
• 51:17
  that song it really caught me off guard Caught
• 51:21
  myself off guard actually Frankly No one's been
• 51:28
  circumcised like I have No, no, no, no, no, no,
• 51:37
  no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no But definitely
• 51:40
  we do vomit bot mitzvahs if you know bar mitzvahs
• 51:43
  we do not do Bot mitzvahs. I don't even know
• 51:46
  what that is, but I won't do it. That's the female
• 51:50
  version. Oh. No. Which is a very modern thing.
• 51:57
  We should have a conversation about that. Unless
• 51:58
  they want to hear the ten days of martyrdom.
• 52:01
  Clean reset. Paul. Who are you? I... I... I am
• 52:14
  circumcised on the eighth day of the people of
• 52:17
  Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of
• 52:20
  Hebrews, as to the law, a Pharisee, as to zeal,
• 52:26
  a persecutor of the church, as to righteousness
• 52:29
  under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I
• 52:32
  had, I count it as loss for the sake of Christ.
• 52:36
  Indeed, I count everything as loss because of
• 52:40
  their surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus
• 52:42
  my Lord. For His sake, I have suffered the loss
• 52:47
  of all things and count them as rubbish, in order
• 52:51
  that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not
• 52:55
  having a righteousness of my own that comes from
• 52:58
  the law. But that which comes from faith in Christ,
• 53:01
  the righteousness from God that depends on faith,
• 53:05
  that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection
• 53:08
  and may share His sufferings, becoming like Him
• 53:12
  in His death, that by any means possible I may
• 53:15
  attain the resurrection from the dead. That was
• 53:21
  a lot heavier than I thought you were going to
• 53:23
  say. Just an emo kid from the Midwest. I'm really
• 53:27
  thinking deep here. Yeah, so Paul the Apostle
• 53:34
  is a profound person in history, an extremely
• 53:39
  important person to Christianity. And it's cool
• 53:46
  that we have so much from Paul directly that
• 53:50
  is corroborated throughout with many, many witnesses.
• 53:55
  And basically, it's understood that Paul did
• 53:58
  write these letters that end up in the New Testament.
• 54:00
  Yeah. That actually make up 13 of the 27 books.
• 54:07
  Yeah, he wrote a lot of books. Yeah. So a lot
• 54:09
  of letters. Let me say that. So half of 27 is
• 54:13
  13 .5. Yes. So he he actually wrote. just under
• 54:22
  half of the New Testament canon and around half,
• 54:30
  close to half of the Book of Acts is about Paul's
• 54:34
  life. I think it's kind of interesting as a little
• 54:37
  side point to that because a lot of the church,
• 54:41
  modern church doctrine that we get and we base
• 54:43
  on is from the epistles of Paul because that's
• 54:47
  who he was writing to is like these are new Systems
• 54:50
  that are being put in place and he was the one
• 54:53
  writing to instruct people like this is how you
• 54:56
  This is how you set it up, right? Which is interesting
• 54:59
  because when we look at who's ascribed with writing
• 55:03
  most of the Pentateuch as being Moses, right?
• 55:07
  It's like oh, yeah, that's what he was doing
• 55:09
  a lot of a lot of those writings that we see
• 55:12
  in like Leviticus and Deuteronomy Like this is
• 55:18
  how we establish Israel this is how we established
• 55:20
  the nation of Israel. Yeah. And then it's cool
• 55:23
  because it's like that is really ascribed to
• 55:25
  one person. Sure. For the most part. Whereas
• 55:28
  on the modern side of it, where we have in our
• 55:31
  new post -Christ resurrection, Paul, who's like,
• 55:36
  let me help you establish what the church looks
• 55:40
  like. Yes. Yeah, that's a really cool way to
• 55:43
  look at it. Yeah. Yeah, because you do have this
• 55:46
  Like OT NT Old Testament. Yeah, yeah New Testament
• 55:51
  Old covenant new covenant like you have all these
• 55:54
  pieces and you're right like there is a systemized
• 56:00
  Layout to how that covenant plays out in praxis.
• 56:05
  Yeah. Yeah, so So one of the things that's cool
• 56:09
  about that is I love that I hadn't thought about
• 56:12
  it that way specifically. That's actually a fresh
• 56:14
  thought. That's cool. I like that. So when you
• 56:16
  lift up out of it a little bit, yeah, Moses is
• 56:19
  essentially writing the practices of what the
• 56:23
  Lord has given him is the original covenant,
• 56:28
  is the covenant with God's people. And he's writing
• 56:31
  that out, not just what it is, but how to live
• 56:35
  according to it. Yes. Or how to benefit from
• 56:39
  it. Yeah. So it's like, this is how you benefit
• 56:41
  from the covenant that the creator God is making
• 56:45
  with us. And then in the New Testament, the creator
• 56:51
  God dwells among us in flesh. And then he dies
• 56:58
  on the cross as the eternal sacrifice. And then
• 57:02
  he rises again because he does not stay dead
• 57:06
  like every other sacrifice. And thus, entering
• 57:10
  in a new covenant, ushering in a new covenant
• 57:15
  that does not eliminate the sacrificial system
• 57:18
  but instead fulfills it. It completes it. So
• 57:22
  Jesus completes the sacrificial system set out
• 57:26
  in practice by the covenant that God made with
• 57:30
  his people Israel as a practice in order to actively
• 57:34
  stay in covenant with his people. which is a
• 57:38
  really cool way of looking at that. I mean with
• 57:40
  what you just said right there is huge because
• 57:42
  it's like the New Testament never contradicts
• 57:45
  the Old Testament and the Old never contradicts
• 57:47
  the New. Yes. But there are differences. Right.
• 57:51
  And the difference is exactly what you just said,
• 57:53
  the fact that Israel continually failed to live
• 57:57
  up to the standard God requires. Yes. Whereas
• 58:01
  Jesus succeeded in being able to fulfill to actually
• 58:06
  live out the law, the requirement of God. Yes.
• 58:12
  And because of that, our lives are different
• 58:14
  now. Yeah. Like God's standard hasn't changed
• 58:18
  for us, but how we live it out has been affected.
• 58:22
  Yes. Yeah, that's true. But in a lot of ways,
• 58:26
  in a lot of ways, there is still a practice of
• 58:29
  living from it. So instead of having to do all
• 58:33
  of these all of these rituals, we still need
• 58:39
  to set up things in our life that are not sacrificial
• 58:49
  processes, but are intended to in some ways mirror
• 58:54
  or reflect those old processes in order to keep
• 58:58
  our heart, soul, mind body all in alignment towards
• 59:06
  the sanctification that is actively happening
• 59:09
  in the movement of the believer towards the Creator
• 59:13
  and the Holy God. So yeah, I love that juxtaposition.
• 59:19
  And Paul is the person like Moses who both of
• 59:24
  them do not, like God precedes both covenant.
• 59:30
  So God makes the covenant all in and of himself.
• 59:35
  Because even when God makes a covenant with Abraham,
• 59:40
  Abraham falls asleep, right? So Abraham falls
• 59:44
  asleep after setting up the altar and cutting
• 59:48
  these animals into two spaces. And in that instance,
• 59:57
  Abraham is not the one that is fulfilling even
• 1:00:02
  that covenant itself. It's God Himself who makes
• 1:00:07
  the covenant. Yeah, with Himself. So we even
• 1:00:11
  see that representation reflecting and preceding
• 1:00:16
  what He would then do in the flesh in the New
• 1:00:19
  Covenant. So even the sacrifice and God doing
• 1:00:23
  it in and of Himself is not new in the New Testament.
• 1:00:27
  He did that back with Abraham in the Old Testament.
• 1:00:30
  Yeah, that's so true. So he fulfilled all those
• 1:00:32
  things in and of himself every time. Yeah, that's
• 1:00:36
  cool. Yeah. Yeah, I actually really like that.
• 1:00:40
  It makes my brain kind of think of some more
• 1:00:43
  like the parallels that I'm putting together
• 1:00:45
  now. And it's like, even we look at, I'm not
• 1:00:48
  saying Paul is Moses, but it's like we look at
• 1:00:51
  some of the similarities between the two. of
• 1:00:55
  like, oh, Moses grew up in Pharaoh's household.
• 1:01:00
  So it's like he was living and being raised by
• 1:01:05
  people that were actively persecuting and against
• 1:01:09
  the Israelites. And here we have a thousand years
• 1:01:15
  later, a couple thousand years later, we have
• 1:01:18
  Paul, who's actively being taught under a group
• 1:01:22
  of people that are actively persecuting Christians.
• 1:01:25
  Yes. And it's like, oh, that's actually quite
• 1:01:28
  fascinating to think about. It is. But it's also
• 1:01:32
  funny just the parallels that we see that God
• 1:01:35
  repeatedly uses to tell the same story. And it's
• 1:01:39
  like, it's always been about him. And he's like,
• 1:01:41
  let me just remind you that I'm doing this. Like,
• 1:01:46
  this is the story that I'm telling. It's about
• 1:01:48
  me. Yeah, I'm trying to look this up because
• 1:01:51
  I want to read that passage so yeah God's covenant
• 1:01:53
  with Abraham and Genesis 15 Yeah, after these
• 1:01:57
  things the word of the Lord came to Abram in
• 1:01:59
  a vision fear not Abram I am your shield your
• 1:02:02
  reward shall be very great, but Abraham said
• 1:02:05
  oh Lord God What will you give me for I continue
• 1:02:09
  to I can for I continue childless in the air
• 1:02:12
  of my house is Eliezer of Damascus Little Easter
• 1:02:21
  egg there And Abraham said and Abraham said behold
• 1:02:25
  you have given me no offspring and a member of
• 1:02:27
  my household Will be my heir and behold the word
• 1:02:30
  of the Lord came to him This man shall not be
• 1:02:33
  your heir your very own son shall be your heir
• 1:02:36
  and he brought him outside and said look toward
• 1:02:38
  heaven and Number the stars if you are able to
• 1:02:41
  number them, then he said to him So shall your
• 1:02:45
  offspring be? and he believed the Lord and counted
• 1:02:49
  it to him as righteousness. So the Lord counted
• 1:02:52
  it to him as righteousness, which is, that's
• 1:02:54
  one of the coolest things, that he believed him.
• 1:02:57
  And he said to him, I am the Lord who brought
• 1:02:59
  you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you
• 1:03:02
  this land to possess. But he said, oh Lord God,
• 1:03:06
  how am I to know that I shall possess it? And
• 1:03:09
  he said to him, bring me a heifer three years
• 1:03:11
  old, a female goat three years old, a ram three
• 1:03:14
  years old, a turtle dove, and a young pigeon.
• 1:03:18
  These are all 12 days of Christmas. They are.
• 1:03:22
  They are. And he brought him all these, cut them
• 1:03:25
  in half and laid each half over against the other.
• 1:03:31
  But he did not cut the birds in half. And when
• 1:03:34
  birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram
• 1:03:37
  drove them away. As the sun was going down, a
• 1:03:40
  deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful
• 1:03:43
  and great darkness fell upon him. Then the Lord
• 1:03:46
  said to Abram, know for certain that your offspring
• 1:03:49
  will be sojourners in the land that is not theirs
• 1:03:52
  and will be servants there, and they will be
• 1:03:56
  afflicted for four hundred years. But I will
• 1:03:59
  bring judgment on the nation that they serve.
• 1:04:02
  And afterward they shall come out with great
• 1:04:05
  possessions. Talking about Moses. Yeah. As for
• 1:04:11
  you, you shall go to your fathers in peace. You
• 1:04:13
  shall be buried in a good old age and they shall
• 1:04:16
  come back here in the fourth generation for the
• 1:04:18
  iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.
• 1:04:21
  I mean that goes also to like Paul and the age
• 1:04:25
  of the Gentiles, which is a whole other When
• 1:04:28
  the sun had gone down and it was dark behold
• 1:04:31
  a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed
• 1:04:33
  between these pieces on That day the Lord made
• 1:04:37
  a covenant with Abram saying to your offspring
• 1:04:40
  I give this land from the river of Egypt to the
• 1:04:42
  great river the river Euphrates the land of the
• 1:04:45
  king so in this passage you have this moment
• 1:04:49
  where God is making a covenant with Abraham and
• 1:04:52
  he's even speaking to the fact that Moses Even
• 1:04:56
  though they are in Egypt will come out of Egypt
• 1:04:59
  with great possessions. Yeah, take the land back
• 1:05:02
  the Abram is in and so this covenant is happening
• 1:05:06
  in this moment and and Abram is Asleep in the
• 1:05:10
  midst of that as the fire goes through it passes
• 1:05:13
  between the sacrifices themselves Because that's
• 1:05:16
  the whole thing is like yeah like in a blood
• 1:05:19
  covenant You would you would each partake in
• 1:05:22
  that? sacrificial and each person would give
• 1:05:28
  their half and then engage together in the sacrifice.
• 1:05:32
  But Abraham prepares the offering and then the
• 1:05:34
  Lord does it all. Yeah, he slept through it.
• 1:05:36
  He did, yeah. Which is really cool. It's such
• 1:05:40
  a cool picture. That's another thing that's like,
• 1:05:44
  wait a minute. So the person that was Eleazar,
• 1:05:48
  who was supposed to be the heir to Abram because
• 1:05:52
  Abram had no sons, was from Damascus. That's
• 1:05:56
  so interesting. It is interesting. Because who
• 1:05:58
  else is from Damascus, Paul? Who else is from
• 1:06:03
  Damascus, comma, Paul? Well, I can't say he's
• 1:06:06
  from Damascus, because technically he's from
• 1:06:08
  Tarsus. But he was on the road to Damascus. I
• 1:06:12
  set you up for two answers. And why was he on
• 1:06:17
  the road to Damascus? He was going to... He's
• 1:06:19
  like, hey, that was so much fun killing Stephen.
• 1:06:22
  Who's next? Let me go see if Eliezer is still
• 1:06:25
  there. It's been a while, but let me go see if
• 1:06:30
  he's still there. He might still be kicking.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah. Oh, man. Land of Eliezer, Damascus. Land
• 1:06:35
  of Eliezer. So yeah, so Paul, basically, he writes
• 1:06:41
  out the practice, which kind of mirrors, in a
• 1:06:44
  lot of ways, the law of Moses, but the law of
• 1:06:51
  Moses is written out of the covenant that God
• 1:06:55
  makes with Abram. So that's the thing is then
• 1:06:58
  Jesus makes a covenant with man in the New Testament
• 1:07:03
  through his life, death, burial, resurrection.
• 1:07:08
  And then basically Paul writes out the letter
• 1:07:11
  of the new law and says, Yeah, and then yeah,
• 1:07:17
  and Jesus basically says you have to be better
• 1:07:20
  than the Pharisees hold to the law And yeah,
• 1:07:24
  but in his statement, he's saying but I did it
• 1:07:26
  for you So it should be a little easier. You've
• 1:07:31
  got an image now Yeah, you have yeah, you have
• 1:07:34
  an example of how to do this Yeah, so then if
• 1:07:40
  you look at it like that like if you look at
• 1:07:42
  the New Testament in that way where the basically
• 1:07:44
  the back half of it is mostly written by one
• 1:07:47
  guy, the same way that the practice of the law
• 1:07:51
  was written out by one guy. Yeah. Which is interesting
• 1:07:54
  because the two people that take some big heat
• 1:07:56
  are both of those guys. That's true. Because
• 1:08:00
  they're the ones that are establishing, like,
• 1:08:01
  hey, this is what it's supposed to, in practice,
• 1:08:03
  this is what it looks like. Yeah, and if you
• 1:08:05
  think about it, Paul really never sees the promised
• 1:08:11
  land. True. Yeah. Which is also fascinating.
• 1:08:15
  Oh, that's interesting. So where Moses sins against
• 1:08:20
  God in the wilderness in not being obedient to
• 1:08:25
  the Lord's command, and he's forced to never
• 1:08:27
  actually step foot in the promised land. But
• 1:08:31
  the Lord is gracious to him, it says, and the
• 1:08:35
  Lord takes him up to be able to look over and
• 1:08:37
  see the promised land. So he allows him to see
• 1:08:41
  what is to come, but then he dies before they
• 1:08:44
  actually step into the promise. And then when
• 1:08:48
  Jesus, right before Jesus ascends, he gives the
• 1:08:53
  great commission to go into all the world and
• 1:08:55
  preach the gospel. And really the person who
• 1:08:57
  leads that charge is Paul. And he goes to the
• 1:09:02
  ends of the earth, but he never sees that fully
• 1:09:05
  fulfilled. You know, so I actually want to bring
• 1:09:08
  up this, I was looking at this earlier today,
• 1:09:12
  and it was, we actually talked about this on
• 1:09:15
  a previous episode. Previously on? Previously
• 1:09:19
  on Martyrs Row, in Isaiah 66, where it talks
• 1:09:25
  about, and we see this image of God saying, I
• 1:09:29
  want to reclaim the nations. And so what's cool
• 1:09:34
  about what you're bringing up here is with Paul,
• 1:09:38
  it's like he was so desperate to go all the way
• 1:09:41
  to Spain. From the beginning of his ministry,
• 1:09:44
  he's like, I need to go there. And when we look
• 1:09:47
  at it, it's like, okay, well, what was there?
• 1:09:48
  It's like, well, that's where the furthest nation
• 1:09:51
  was that we see all the way back on the table
• 1:09:54
  of nations as it split up into the 70. And it's
• 1:09:58
  like - Do you want to be 32? Yes, yeah. And actually,
• 1:10:03
  so I'll start here. This is in verse 19 of Isaiah
• 1:10:07
  66. And it says, and I will set a sign among
• 1:10:10
  them and from them, I will send survivors to
• 1:10:13
  the nations. Let me start with 18. I'll just
• 1:10:15
  start all the way to the top. Do it, yeah. It's
• 1:10:16
  not all the way to the top. I just read all of
• 1:10:18
  Genesis 15. Oh yeah, that's true. Because I mean,
• 1:10:21
  honestly, this is a really cool passage, especially
• 1:10:23
  for what we're going to be talking about here.
• 1:10:25
  Yeah. With Paul's ministry and the apostles ministry
• 1:10:28
  as a whole. So starting in verse 18, to the coastlands
• 1:10:54
  far away that have not heard my fame or seen
• 1:10:57
  my glory, and they shall declare my glory among
• 1:11:00
  the nations." I'll just stop there because it's
• 1:11:04
  like, holy cow. So what's interesting is, okay,
• 1:11:07
  so he's talking in these very ancient names of
• 1:11:12
  places. And so Tarshish, we're like, okay, well,
• 1:11:16
  where is that? That's modern day Spain. And it's
• 1:11:19
  like, and that's all over there. It's like, okay,
• 1:11:22
  what about... What about Poland? It's like, well
• 1:11:23
  that's actually down in like Libya. Okay. Which
• 1:11:26
  is like northern Africa. Yeah. And then what
• 1:11:28
  about Lod and Tobol? Well that's Asia Minor.
• 1:11:32
  Right. And then Javan, that's Greece. yeah and
• 1:11:34
  so it's like and obviously there are more nations
• 1:11:36
  that are spread out down further east of Jerusalem
• 1:11:39
  yeah and it's like we know that they were there
• 1:11:42
  and there's other apostles that had a lot of
• 1:11:43
  missions work there yeah and Paul's like yes
• 1:11:46
  let me do that but I'm gonna do the work in the
• 1:11:48
  furthest regions too because we're all working
• 1:11:50
  here I need to hit Asia Minor I need to hit Greece
• 1:11:53
  yeah I need to hit Libya and I need to go to
• 1:11:56
  Rome and Spain Yes. And it's like, so what is
• 1:11:59
  he doing? Well, he knows. It's like, and we'll
• 1:12:01
  talk about this in a minute. It's like, well,
• 1:12:04
  in his studies, like, he knows the Old Testament.
• 1:12:06
  Yeah, he does. And then when he sees the fulfillment
• 1:12:09
  of Christ through that, he says, OK, that's him.
• 1:12:11
  And I know what he wants. He wants all tribes,
• 1:12:14
  tongues, and nations. Yeah. And so let me go
• 1:12:17
  to those nations and tell them who Christ is.
• 1:12:20
  Yes. Like, that's the mission. Yeah. And we see
• 1:12:23
  that in his life. So it's funny because there's
• 1:12:26
  a big claim against Paul that, oh, he never knew
• 1:12:29
  Jesus and he preached a separate gospel. It's
• 1:12:33
  like, okay, let's say that. Why would he commit
• 1:12:35
  his entire life to doing what the Old Testament
• 1:12:38
  and Jesus said, I want this? Yeah, and I think
• 1:12:42
  even maybe a greater, like a little bit more
• 1:12:45
  profound thing is even if, so. I think people
• 1:12:51
  don't realize that, or we don't talk about it
• 1:12:53
  enough, that the Great Commission is not the
• 1:12:56
  first time that that's said. Right. So looking
• 1:12:58
  at Isaiah 66, if Jesus, which we're going to
• 1:13:03
  talk about in a minute, and we probably got to
• 1:13:04
  stop saying that and just let it be that minute.
• 1:13:06
  Just let it be. But if Jesus tells Paul, go,
• 1:13:12
  he doesn't need to tell him where to go. He already
• 1:13:14
  knows. He already knows. But not because of the
• 1:13:17
  Great Commission. because the Great Commission
• 1:13:19
  is not written down yet. Right. It was said to
• 1:13:23
  the apostles that were there during the Ascension.
• 1:13:25
  Yes. Yeah. And Paul wasn't there. He wasn't there.
• 1:13:28
  During the Ascension, which is part of the argument.
• 1:13:31
  The problem is, is if Jesus says go, then immediately
• 1:13:35
  Paul is going to go, okay, well, Isaiah 66 to
• 1:13:39
  all the nations. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And not
• 1:13:43
  only to all the nations, but in the context,
• 1:13:47
  of when he tells Paul to go. Yeah. It gives Paul
• 1:13:52
  more context of what he's talking about. Yeah.
• 1:13:55
  So let's get there. Well, I mean, it says it
• 1:13:57
  in the verse, like, so they'll see my fame and
• 1:13:59
  my glory. Right. Who's who's my that's God. Right.
• 1:14:04
  And he's like, oh, I've seen him in the. Well,
• 1:14:06
  he's like, I've seen him. Yeah. We can talk about
• 1:14:08
  that in a second in the flesh. I keep saying
• 1:14:10
  I couldn't help myself there. OK, so let's let's
• 1:14:14
  let's jump to this real quick. OK. Acts five.
• 1:14:18
  Okay. We see a very interesting picture where
• 1:14:22
  Paul and Peter are brought forth in front of
• 1:14:26
  the Sanhedrin. Yes. Because of their preaching
• 1:14:28
  of the gospel of Christ. Yes. And they're like,
• 1:14:30
  we need to kill these guys because they're preaching
• 1:14:33
  a false gospel because they're going against
• 1:14:36
  the teaching of the Pharisees. Yeah, so Paul
• 1:14:38
  and Peter. Peter and John. There you go. Sorry,
• 1:14:42
  did I say Paul? You did. My bad. Thanks for correcting.
• 1:14:44
  That's important. That's important. So Peter
• 1:14:46
  and John, apostles that walked with, that were
• 1:14:51
  disciples that walked with Jesus, are standing
• 1:14:54
  from the Sanhedrin, which is the religious council
• 1:14:58
  of Israel. So the Sanhedrin is the religious
• 1:15:04
  council that held their own law. So they were
• 1:15:09
  a religious Law within themselves within the
• 1:15:15
  Roman government within Rome itself they allowed
• 1:15:20
  them to function within their own laws as Subjects
• 1:15:23
  still in the greater way to Rome. So the Sanhedrin
• 1:15:27
  is not Christians. It's Jews Yes, right the same
• 1:15:31
  Sanhedrin that would have killed Jesus Yes. Right.
• 1:15:34
  I mean, even when we look at that, it's like
• 1:15:36
  it would have most likely been the same people.
• 1:15:38
  Yeah, absolutely. Because when we look at the
• 1:15:40
  timeframe of this, I'll even jump ahead here
• 1:15:43
  with Paul. It's like Paul was only a few years
• 1:15:47
  younger than Jesus. Right. And I think that's,
• 1:15:50
  at least for me, it's like, oh, whoa, that's
• 1:15:52
  like a shock timeline -wise, because we think
• 1:15:54
  about them in two different categories. Sure.
• 1:15:56
  But even when we look at the ascension to the
• 1:16:00
  stoning of Peter, it's only like a couple months.
• 1:16:02
  Right. Most likely. It actually was like the
• 1:16:05
  same year that it all happened. It's like this
• 1:16:08
  was all happening very quickly. Sure. Yeah because
• 1:16:12
  if you kill and say this guy was a false messiah
• 1:16:16
  and then there's rumors of his resurrection,
• 1:16:21
  well you're gonna try and suppress that. Absolutely.
• 1:16:25
  And so people are gonna die pretty quick. You
• 1:16:28
  know what I mean? Yeah. And I think it's one
• 1:16:30
  of those I don't personally think about all the
• 1:16:32
  time, and I don't know if a lot of people do.
• 1:16:34
  When we talk about Peter and John and the rest
• 1:16:37
  of the apostles, it's like, well, yeah, they
• 1:16:39
  walked with Jesus. They were learning under him.
• 1:16:44
  And then it's like, they weren't eight years
• 1:16:46
  old when that happened. It's like, no, they were
• 1:16:49
  probably in their 20s. And then when they're
• 1:16:51
  doing their missions, it's like, yeah, they're
• 1:16:53
  gonna be missionaries in their 20s, 30s, 40s
• 1:16:55
  until they get martyred. So it's like, yeah,
• 1:16:59
  they were, like, this all happened within a generation.
• 1:17:02
  Yeah, absolutely. When it's like, oh, sometimes
• 1:17:05
  when I read it, you think Paul's much later.
• 1:17:07
  Right. But so when we talk about Paul with that,
• 1:17:12
  jumping back to the Sanhedrin in Acts 5. Yeah.
• 1:17:15
  So they're being brought before them. And they're
• 1:17:20
  like, hey, these guys, we know what they're doing.
• 1:17:22
  We don't like it. Let's get rid of them. Peter
• 1:17:24
  and John. Peter and John. Yes. And, uh, all looks
• 1:17:28
  pretty bleak. Yeah. And then we see this, this
• 1:17:32
  figure step out, who is one of the elite Pharisees.
• 1:17:37
  Yes. And his name is Gamaliel. Okay. That's important.
• 1:17:41
  That's very important. If you're taking notes.
• 1:17:43
  Right? That will be on the test. Yeah. Figure
• 1:17:46
  out how to spell it. If I even said it right.
• 1:17:52
  And he basically says, this is the Paula Frey's
• 1:17:55
  version, he says, whoa, if these guys are preaching
• 1:18:01
  something that is not of God, then it will dissipate.
• 1:18:07
  Which makes sense. If Jesus never actually resurrected
• 1:18:10
  and they're lying, they'll be caught in their
• 1:18:12
  lie and it'll be found out very quickly. But
• 1:18:16
  then he says, And I think even the passage says,
• 1:18:19
  in his wisdom. But if it is of God, if they are
• 1:18:25
  teaching something that is really from God, and
• 1:18:29
  we kill them, we're going against God. And I
• 1:18:33
  don't want that on my conscience. And so because
• 1:18:36
  of that, they let them go. Yeah, and that's a
• 1:18:42
  really profound thing in that moment. And I think
• 1:18:44
  maybe that comes off of also the looking back
• 1:18:48
  at Jesus and Barabbas. Yeah. And going like,
• 1:18:52
  no, his blood will be on our hands, kill him.
• 1:18:56
  Yeah. And these elders in the Sanhedrin are saying,
• 1:19:03
  I'm not quite sure that that was the best idea.
• 1:19:06
  Right. Maybe let's - Well, especially seeing
• 1:19:08
  the brutality of it. Yeah. Let's not jump straight
• 1:19:12
  back into that again so quickly. Yeah. And keep
• 1:19:15
  doing that. because it could potentially end
• 1:19:18
  up bad for us, and we could be missing something.
• 1:19:22
  Well, yeah, because even when you look at exactly
• 1:19:24
  what you're saying, when you look at the brutality
• 1:19:26
  that they witnessed that Jesus went through,
• 1:19:29
  and the people are still saying, no, he's actually
• 1:19:31
  the Messiah, I'd be like, okay, hold on. Let
• 1:19:34
  me think about this for a minute. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:19:36
  When I see what someone went through and what
• 1:19:39
  these people watched him go through, and they're
• 1:19:41
  still gonna say, no, he is Christ. That's gonna
• 1:19:45
  give me some pause. Yes, not only that, but also
• 1:19:48
  if these are teachers of the law, then they read
• 1:19:53
  and study and look at all the places where God
• 1:19:59
  shows up and takes care of the problem all by
• 1:20:02
  himself. Yeah, true. That's very true. And if
• 1:20:05
  they're the problem, he's going to take care
• 1:20:07
  of them all by himself. Yeah. You know what I
• 1:20:09
  mean? There will be judgment. And that's kind
• 1:20:11
  of what he's saying. Yeah. Is like, I don't want
• 1:20:13
  to reap the judgment of God if potentially these
• 1:20:16
  men are correct. Yeah. You know? Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:20:19
  But who's the guy? Gamaliel? Well, so here's
• 1:20:25
  what's interesting. So you didn't just say a
• 1:20:27
  random name for no reason? No, not for any random
• 1:20:31
  reason. Tell me why you said that name, Paul.
• 1:20:36
  One of the wise leaders of the San Diego. Gamaliel,
• 1:20:38
  he is lauded for his knowledge. And so what's
• 1:20:45
  interesting is - So he's honored. He's honored.
• 1:20:47
  Or remembered. He's remembered. Esteemed. Very,
• 1:20:51
  highly esteemed. And so what's interesting about
• 1:20:54
  him is there's not a lot that's talked about
• 1:20:56
  him. We don't know that much. But he is mentioned
• 1:21:00
  by Josephus, the historian, who wrote about the
• 1:21:04
  nobility of Gamaliel's son, Simon. But Josephus,
• 1:21:08
  his description of Gamaliel's family is consistent
• 1:21:11
  with the picture you see in the Book of Acts.
• 1:21:14
  The Talmud also mentions Gamaliel. But there's
• 1:21:18
  still a lot we don't know. But basically the
• 1:21:21
  idea is that He was known as, his whole family
• 1:21:25
  actually, him and his family, revered as men
• 1:21:27
  of wisdom and prudential judgment. In God's sovereign
• 1:21:31
  plan the Jewish rabbi preserved the lives of
• 1:21:33
  the apostles, as we see. And so at that time
• 1:21:41
  there were two, I have both their names written
• 1:21:44
  down so I make sure I didn't say it wrong. So
• 1:21:48
  there were two rabbinic saints. rabbinic sages
• 1:21:53
  in the first century who founded the schools
• 1:21:56
  that debated Jewish law. And the two were Hillel
• 1:22:00
  and Shemai. And Hillel, his student, was Gamaliel.
• 1:22:05
  So Gamaliel studied under Hillel, who was the
• 1:22:09
  one who often debated with Shemai. And so we
• 1:22:12
  actually see a picture of their two ideologies
• 1:22:14
  and the school when we see the Pharisees ask
• 1:22:18
  Jesus about divorce in Matthew. So what they're
• 1:22:21
  presenting is this big debate that's been going
• 1:22:23
  on between these two rabbis. And so it's like,
• 1:22:26
  okay, so we see there's interaction with these
• 1:22:29
  ideals and these people. So the Hillelites, as
• 1:22:33
  they're often called, they're the more progressive,
• 1:22:39
  I'll even say, maybe more loose. They're more
• 1:22:42
  like, hey, it's gonna be fine. With stuff, they
• 1:22:45
  were much looser with their interpretation of
• 1:22:47
  the law and they gave a lot of grace. and like
• 1:22:51
  comfort to people as they in their studies whereas
• 1:22:54
  the Shammai or Shamiites they were more like
• 1:22:57
  hard -nosed nope like this is it it's this or
• 1:23:00
  that yeah there's no grace yeah yeah and so Gimilil
• 1:23:06
  he is known also by one of his pupils which was
• 1:23:12
  Paul And we see that in the Book of Acts as well,
• 1:23:18
  where it claims that, yes, Paul studied it under
• 1:23:20
  Gamaliel. Now, with that, there's a lot of debate
• 1:23:25
  whether that's true or not. And one of the big
• 1:23:30
  things, which I find a fascinating argument,
• 1:23:33
  they're like, well, Paul doesn't act the same
• 1:23:35
  way that he would have taught. so it doesn't
• 1:23:38
  make sense that he studied under him. But it
• 1:23:40
  kind of makes me laugh, because it's like, well,
• 1:23:41
  have you seen Peter and Jesus? It's like, Jesus,
• 1:23:45
  we see him, and then Peter's like, yeah, I'm
• 1:23:47
  going to go cut that guy's ear off. So it's like,
• 1:23:51
  we see these very differing opinions and beliefs
• 1:23:56
  from a master and a student. And you're saying
• 1:23:58
  in Paul, who was Saul, Yeah. You're saying in
• 1:24:05
  the way that he approached Christians. Yeah.
• 1:24:09
  Yeah, because it seems to be consistent to say
• 1:24:12
  that Gamaliel would not have persecuted and murdered
• 1:24:15
  Christians. Right. Especially with that view
• 1:24:17
  of Acts. Right. Whereas Paul didn't have a problem
• 1:24:20
  with it. He thought he was doing the right thing.
• 1:24:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was more consistent with
• 1:24:24
  more of a Shemai view. Right. So it's NT, right?
• 1:24:29
  He's the one who made the claim. He's like, well,
• 1:24:33
  He says, I think that he actually did study under
• 1:24:35
  Gamaliel, but he followed the Shimei law. There
• 1:24:38
  are Shimei rules, basically. Which, honestly,
• 1:24:41
  would make sense. Well, and Paul himself calls
• 1:24:44
  himself a zealot. Yeah, which is consistent with
• 1:24:48
  that ideal. It would be, yeah. Honestly, it doesn't
• 1:24:53
  invalidate who we studied under. Yeah, no, not
• 1:24:57
  at all. It's like, those are two separate things.
• 1:24:59
  Yeah, is the the high esteem in which that particular
• 1:25:03
  rabbi being one of the two main rabbis in that
• 1:25:05
  time period. Yes. The fact that they were so
• 1:25:09
  such of a high esteem brought status to Paul.
• 1:25:16
  Yes. So it was it was in Paul's best interest
• 1:25:20
  in that instance to say he was a student of Yeah.
• 1:25:25
  In order to bring higher esteem to himself and
• 1:25:28
  his own rank, regardless of what his practices
• 1:25:31
  were. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? No,
• 1:25:34
  absolutely. Cause it's not like what we have
• 1:25:36
  is his, his rabbi saying, I taught Paul. Right.
• 1:25:41
  We don't have that. If we did, maybe the claim
• 1:25:45
  would make more sense of like, yeah, well, but
• 1:25:48
  he's not like you at all. And it's like, yeah,
• 1:25:51
  why would he claim someone who doesn't act the
• 1:25:53
  way he taught? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that's
• 1:25:56
  not what happens. Paul basically goes, hey, I
• 1:25:58
  went to Harvard. Yeah. But Harvard's not going,
• 1:26:02
  hey, Paul is ours. Right, because they're like,
• 1:26:04
  I don't know about him. Yeah. Yeah. So both things
• 1:26:08
  can be true. Yeah, absolutely. You can say, hey,
• 1:26:11
  I mean, I went to Harvard. So I know what I'm
• 1:26:13
  talking about when it comes to the law. Yeah.
• 1:26:16
  Yeah. That was actually a really good example.
• 1:26:18
  That was very good, actually. Yeah, I really
• 1:26:20
  like that. But yeah, so I think what's interesting
• 1:26:24
  about that too, because it draws another connection.
• 1:26:27
  Yeah. And it's this connection, especially when
• 1:26:29
  we talked about earlier how him and Jesus were
• 1:26:33
  basically the same age. Yeah, close to. They
• 1:26:36
  were talking like five to eight years maximum.
• 1:26:40
  Sure. Yeah, I mean, and you're even talking about
• 1:26:42
  like the stoning of Stephen. Right. So like the
• 1:26:46
  stoning of Stephen, again, it's not like it's
• 1:26:48
  happening 20 years later. Right. So even when
• 1:26:53
  like Paul would have started studying under Gamaliel,
• 1:26:56
  he probably would have been like 15 years old.
• 1:26:59
  Yeah. Well, he would have been 13. You're right.
• 1:27:02
  Yeah. So like that, that is a, and that's a big
• 1:27:04
  debate also with Jesus. Was he a carpenter or
• 1:27:08
  was he a rabbi? Yeah. Like that, that conversation
• 1:27:11
  of like when you're 13, when you go through your
• 1:27:14
  bar mitzvah, You either step into deeper study
• 1:27:21
  or you go into family trade. And in Paul's instance,
• 1:27:27
  he's telling us he didn't go to family trade.
• 1:27:30
  He went into study with a well -known rabbi.
• 1:27:35
  And the only way to go into study with a well
• 1:27:37
  -known rabbi is to be chosen by that rabbi. So
• 1:27:41
  like the same way that Jesus walks around and
• 1:27:44
  says, Peter, you're now gonna stop doing what
• 1:27:47
  you're doing, you're gonna stop your trade, and
• 1:27:50
  you're gonna come be a rabbi. You're gonna come
• 1:27:52
  learn at my feet, and in turn become a rabbi.
• 1:27:57
  That's interesting. So in that way, when Paul
• 1:28:00
  says, yeah, this was my rabbi, he's saying, he
• 1:28:06
  chose me. So that brings a higher status. Yeah,
• 1:28:12
  that makes a lot of sense. Right? Yeah, that's
• 1:28:15
  cool. And we have an easy example of that in
• 1:28:16
  the way that Jesus chose his disciples. And what
• 1:28:19
  did they call him? They called him Rabbi. Yeah.
• 1:28:22
  You also, and also Lin, like the, to go further
• 1:28:26
  with that, that's a lot of the reason why they
• 1:28:30
  would have very quickly left their boats, why
• 1:28:33
  they very quickly would have left their, their
• 1:28:37
  collecting of taxes, why they would have dropped
• 1:28:40
  what they were doing because being a rabbi was
• 1:28:43
  a much higher status in society. Actually, you
• 1:28:47
  just reminded me of something really interesting.
• 1:28:49
  This is a side off of Paul, but not completely.
• 1:28:54
  And it has to do with, what's one of your favorite
• 1:28:57
  little factoids about priests and who they came
• 1:29:03
  from? Which tribe? Oh, Levites? Yeah. Okay. So
• 1:29:08
  here's what's interesting. I was about to be
• 1:29:09
  like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I was
• 1:29:10
  like, let me set this up. The Levites? So going
• 1:29:12
  back to Isaiah 66. I do love me a Levite. I love
• 1:29:17
  me a good priest. Love a good Levite. It's the
• 1:29:22
  hardest thing to find around this town. A good
• 1:29:24
  Levite. It is kind of hard. So you just reminded
• 1:29:30
  me of this and I was like, oh, this is a cool
• 1:29:32
  thing. I forgot I wanted to read for you. Yeah.
• 1:29:34
  Isaiah 66. Read it for me, Paul. Listen now.
• 1:29:40
  Starting in verse 20. Okay. It says, and they
• 1:29:44
  shall bring all your brothers from all the nations
• 1:29:46
  as an offering to the Lord on horses and in chariots
• 1:29:50
  and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries
• 1:29:54
  to my holy mountain Jerusalem says the Lord just
• 1:29:57
  as the Israelites bring their grain offering
• 1:29:59
  in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. And
• 1:30:02
  some of them also I will take for priests and
• 1:30:05
  for Levites, says the Lord. And so here's why
• 1:30:10
  I thought that was interesting. Okay. Because
• 1:30:11
  again, this is in relation to him sending out
• 1:30:16
  the survivors to the nations. Where is this again?
• 1:30:19
  In Isaiah 66. Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
• 1:30:22
  So in that same setup passage. Yeah, where he's
• 1:30:24
  like, I'm reclaiming the nations and... I'm gonna
• 1:30:28
  have everyone come and bring their offerings
• 1:30:30
  to me. And I'm gonna take some of them as my
• 1:30:32
  priest and some of them for Levites. He doesn't
• 1:30:35
  say, I will take Levites. He says, I will take
• 1:30:37
  them for. And I was like, oh, that's actually
• 1:30:39
  really interesting. Cause when he goes into the
• 1:30:41
  apostles, it's like, oh, these aren't Levites.
• 1:30:45
  But he's like, I'm gonna take them for Levites
• 1:30:47
  because I'm fulfilling my own mission. I was
• 1:30:50
  like, that's really cool. And we see that calling
• 1:30:53
  then again on Paul. It's like, it doesn't matter.
• 1:30:57
  which tribe he came from. Because we know he
• 1:30:59
  wasn't a Levite either. But Jesus is like, I
• 1:31:02
  don't care anymore. Because you're gonna fulfill
• 1:31:05
  my mission. You're the survivor who's gonna fulfill
• 1:31:07
  my mission. Yeah, he's not making him a Levite,
• 1:31:10
  he's making him like a Levite. In fulfilling
• 1:31:13
  the task of basically taking care of his temple.
• 1:31:21
  And post -resurrection, what is God's temple?
• 1:31:25
  it's the people of God. So yeah, I mean, that's
• 1:31:30
  really cool. I feel like we need to, now having
• 1:31:33
  set all that up, let's go to why Paul would have,
• 1:31:42
  when he hears from Jesus about going and doing
• 1:31:45
  the work, what brings greater context to it?
• 1:31:49
  Oh. Let me say this first. Do it. Sorry. I want
• 1:31:54
  to get into that too. Okay. Kind of putting a
• 1:31:56
  little capstone on what we were talking about
• 1:31:59
  before I derailed myself. Capstone it. And so
• 1:32:03
  it's this idea, especially with the claim that
• 1:32:06
  Paul never met Jesus, or that it's like he had
• 1:32:09
  no knowledge of him. Oh, right. It's kind of
• 1:32:10
  the claim that gets made. Yeah. Except for, and
• 1:32:14
  some people put confusion over his conversion,
• 1:32:17
  which... Sure, whatever. But I think what's interesting
• 1:32:22
  in this - Like saying it's not valid? Yeah, saying
• 1:32:24
  he just made it up. Which is like - It's dangerous
• 1:32:27
  when you start saying that things that are actually
• 1:32:29
  in the Bible are not valid. It is. Because then,
• 1:32:35
  to me at that point, like - You kind of invalidate
• 1:32:38
  your own point of using the Bible at all. Right.
• 1:32:42
  That's like saying - Yeah, never mind. I don't
• 1:32:45
  want to get into that. It's a whole separate
• 1:32:47
  subject, but it is I guess part of for me when
• 1:32:51
  it comes to that is We can't say that Paul ever
• 1:32:55
  met Jesus in the flesh There are things that
• 1:32:59
  we might be able to conclude if we stretch Where
• 1:33:02
  it Paul says a couple things where it's like
• 1:33:04
  sounds like he might have met him or seen him
• 1:33:07
  But at the very least what we can say is because,
• 1:33:12
  especially their age differences and the fact
• 1:33:14
  that Paul is studying in the temple, in the synagogue
• 1:33:18
  with Gamaliel, Jesus was very well known and
• 1:33:23
  well talked about amongst those people. So the
• 1:33:27
  claim that they had never had any interaction,
• 1:33:30
  whether just through mutual friends, is kind
• 1:33:33
  of a ridiculous claim. Especially because Jesus
• 1:33:36
  was very disruptive. Yes. Like his teachings,
• 1:33:41
  I mean, he's studying under the person that was
• 1:33:45
  in the Sanhedrin when they said, yeah, let's
• 1:33:47
  crucify this guy. And you're saying he had no
• 1:33:51
  connection to Jesus, fleshly Jesus? You don't
• 1:33:53
  think that guy ever talked about him? I'm sure
• 1:33:55
  he talked about him. But you look at it, it's
• 1:33:58
  like, okay, here's Paul five years younger than
• 1:34:01
  Jesus. Jesus is obviously his senior. True. But
• 1:34:06
  he's looking at him, he's like, I'm still learning
• 1:34:07
  all of this, and I'm seeing this troublemaker.
• 1:34:12
  Yeah. I mean, the five -year thing is a little
• 1:34:14
  arbitrary, right? Because we don't necessarily
• 1:34:15
  know. We don't know. We do know that there is
• 1:34:19
  that age gap in there to some range of at least
• 1:34:23
  five years. Five to 10 years, I think, is what
• 1:34:25
  I was seeing as a consensus. Yeah, but even if
• 1:34:30
  Paul is 10, Right when Jesus is 33. Yeah, he's
• 1:34:36
  still like it's not there's not that he knows
• 1:34:39
  about it Yeah, he knows about it. Yeah, but yeah
• 1:34:42
  I think the fact that they around the same age
• 1:34:45
  were in the same place doing the same thing right
• 1:34:47
  and they never met Yeah, it's it's like the whole
• 1:34:50
  that's that's a little too far. It's like what
• 1:34:52
  we talked about in an earlier episode about Matthew
• 1:34:57
  yeah, be like growing up in Nazareth. Yeah They
• 1:35:01
  would have had to know each other as kids. They
• 1:35:03
  would have bumped into each other. Yeah, because
• 1:35:06
  Nazareth is currently five square miles. Right.
• 1:35:10
  So that's not... You know everybody that lives
• 1:35:13
  in Nazareth. You can't not know them. And most
• 1:35:19
  likely when Jesus is with the group of people
• 1:35:23
  coming down to give sacrifices, Then he gets
• 1:35:30
  left in the temple that group of kids that he
• 1:35:32
  was with Matthew is probably in that group Yeah,
• 1:35:35
  so it's one of those things where it's like We
• 1:35:39
  we Decide to ignore some of that stuff. Yeah
• 1:35:43
  where the original readers would wouldn't have
• 1:35:46
  done that Right. Like, why do we make it so hard
• 1:35:49
  on ourselves? And that's, it kind of goes to
• 1:35:51
  what you were saying earlier, to setting this
• 1:35:53
  whole thing up, like some of the things we don't
• 1:35:55
  necessarily think about. And that's something
• 1:35:56
  that I've never really thought about. Yeah. And
• 1:35:59
  then when I see it, it's like, oh, well, that's
• 1:36:00
  so obvious. Yeah. It's like, there would have
• 1:36:03
  been a connection. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So
• 1:36:06
  let's cap this off with Paul's conversion. Yes,
• 1:36:09
  please. So there's a couple of places, there's
• 1:36:12
  a couple of places in Acts specifically, but.
• 1:36:15
  It feels right to start at Acts 9. And then I
• 1:36:18
  want to look at Acts 26 because there's something
• 1:36:20
  interesting there. But it says, but Paul, still
• 1:36:24
  breathing threats and murder against the disciples
• 1:36:28
  of the Lord. So this isn't Paul writing. That's
• 1:36:30
  why I want to look at 26 in a minute. He goes
• 1:36:33
  to the high priest and ask him for letters to
• 1:36:37
  the synagogues at Damascus. so that if he found
• 1:36:41
  any belonging to the way, men or women, he might
• 1:36:46
  bring them bound to Jerusalem. Now as he went
• 1:36:49
  on his way, he approached Damascus and suddenly
• 1:36:53
  a light from heaven shone around him." What I
• 1:36:57
  like about that phrasing is in the New Testament
• 1:37:01
  when the heavens open up, it's not gradual. It
• 1:37:06
  doesn't say, and then over time, It faded in
• 1:37:10
  over time light from heaven shown it says and
• 1:37:14
  suddenly a light from heaven shone around and
• 1:37:17
  Falling to the ground he heard a voice saying
• 1:37:21
  to him saw saw Why are you persecuting me real
• 1:37:27
  quick? We talked about this in an earlier episode
• 1:37:30
  I like that we are saying that now instead of
• 1:37:33
  this could be a whole new episode. Yeah saw What
• 1:37:38
  is Saul? Like, give context for that. Saul, Paul.
• 1:37:42
  What's the difference? Yeah, and we see that
• 1:37:44
  in how it's changed, how they switch which one
• 1:37:48
  they use. Yes. Is that Paul was not a change
• 1:37:51
  name for him. Right. But it was just his other
• 1:37:54
  name. Right. And when he starts his ministry
• 1:37:57
  specifically to the Gentiles, he goes by Paul.
• 1:37:59
  Right. But when he's still a Jew. Yes. Amongst
• 1:38:04
  Jews, he goes by Saul. So that's pretty important
• 1:38:07
  right here in the conversion. And I'll get to
• 1:38:10
  the reason why. It's actually not in nine, it's
• 1:38:12
  in 26. So I'll just say, Jesus addresses Paul
• 1:38:22
  as Saul. There's a reason for that. So he says,
• 1:38:27
  Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? And he
• 1:38:30
  said, who are you, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus
• 1:38:36
  whom you are persecuting. Stop. Did Jesus ever
• 1:38:40
  meet Paul? Well, it says right here, I am Jesus.
• 1:38:48
  Yeah. And he's talking to Saul. Yeah. So like,
• 1:38:54
  I mean, you either have to decide just to not
• 1:38:57
  believe sections of the Bible. You know what
• 1:39:01
  I mean? It's like, what do you mean they didn't
• 1:39:02
  meet each other? Well, especially that, it's
• 1:39:05
  like, there is that familiarity, which is what
• 1:39:07
  you're pointing out. And it's like, Saul had
• 1:39:11
  never seen Jesus in his resurrected body. True.
• 1:39:15
  But it seems to say that, it seems to show even
• 1:39:18
  him by calling him Lord. It's like, there's gotta
• 1:39:20
  be some recognition. So I'll get to that. Oh,
• 1:39:24
  and for him to say like, I am Jesus, he's like,
• 1:39:26
  he knows what Jesus looks like. Yeah, but he's
• 1:39:28
  not seeing him right now. That's true. Yeah,
• 1:39:31
  that's true. So that's that that was part of
• 1:39:33
  what I was going to get to. But so, yeah, he
• 1:39:35
  says, I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but
• 1:39:38
  rise and enter the city and you will be told
• 1:39:43
  what you are to do. The men who were traveling
• 1:39:46
  with him stood speechless, hearing the voice,
• 1:39:49
  but seeing no one. Saul rose from the ground.
• 1:39:54
  And although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing.
• 1:39:58
  So I mean that harkens back to that like eyes
• 1:40:03
  to see ears to hear that that's that type of
• 1:40:05
  language where He saw exactly what he needed
• 1:40:08
  to see but when he saw heavenly things his earthly
• 1:40:12
  vision went away Yeah, yeah, and it's almost
• 1:40:16
  like in this moment Saul's vision shifts dimension
• 1:40:21
  and he can see heavenly things, but then when
• 1:40:24
  the heavens close up again and he's on earth,
• 1:40:27
  his eyes have to adjust. It says, so they let
• 1:40:31
  him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
• 1:40:34
  And for three days he was without sight and neither
• 1:40:37
  ate nor drank. So he fasted for three days. That
• 1:40:41
  sounds kind of familiar. Now there were. There
• 1:40:45
  was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The
• 1:40:48
  Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias, and he
• 1:40:50
  said, Here I am, Lord. And the Lord said to him,
• 1:40:53
  Rise and go to the street called Straight. And
• 1:40:56
  at the house of Judas, look for a man of Tarsus
• 1:40:59
  named Saul, for behold, he is praying. And he
• 1:41:02
  has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come
• 1:41:06
  in and lay his hands on him so that he might
• 1:41:08
  again, he might regain his sight. So then you
• 1:41:12
  go through this whole this whole thing with Ananias,
• 1:41:16
  but That's for another podcast. Yes, but I wanted
• 1:41:20
  to hit on this so okay So this is this is being
• 1:41:23
  told about Paul's conversion. So right here and
• 1:41:27
  presumably by Luke Who writes some of acts? Yeah,
• 1:41:34
  it's accredited to him having written some of
• 1:41:37
  it so So right here you see saw saw. Okay, so
• 1:41:41
  I want to jump really quick to acts 26 before
• 1:41:44
  we comment too much on it. In Acts 26, you see
• 1:41:49
  this moment where Paul himself tells of his conversion.
• 1:41:55
  So this is from the words of Paul. And in this
• 1:42:00
  instance, we don't even really need to set it
• 1:42:02
  up. I really just want to go to what his conversion
• 1:42:06
  is from his words. It says, In this connection,
• 1:42:10
  I journeyed to Damascus. He's before a council
• 1:42:13
  at this point. But he says, I journeyed to Damascus
• 1:42:17
  with the authority and the commission of the
• 1:42:20
  chief priests. So we learned that before. So
• 1:42:23
  the account in nine is about him, not by him.
• 1:42:26
  Now we see it corroborated right here by him.
• 1:42:29
  So his conversion is both told by someone else,
• 1:42:33
  and then later in Acts of the apostles, You see
• 1:42:40
  him say the same thing, but with slightly more
• 1:42:44
  detail. He says, in this connection, I journeyed
• 1:42:48
  to Damascus with the authority and commission
• 1:42:51
  of the chief priests. At midday, O King, I saw
• 1:42:55
  on the way a light from heaven brighter than
• 1:43:03
  the sun that shone around me and those who journeyed
• 1:43:07
  with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground,
• 1:43:11
  I heard a voice saying to me, in the Hebrew language,
• 1:43:18
  Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is
• 1:43:22
  hard for you to kick against the goads. Okay.
• 1:43:26
  Wow. So you go, okay, why does, why does Jesus
• 1:43:31
  say Saul, Saul and not Paul, Paul? Here's why.
• 1:43:34
  Because he said it in the Hebrew language. You
• 1:43:38
  know, it's such a fascinating thing about that
• 1:43:40
  as well. Yeah is even no good Yes, I do know
• 1:43:48
  And I actually just heard a couple of scholars
• 1:43:53
  talking about this recently and it's the language
• 1:43:57
  that Jesus uses in that at the time it's like
• 1:44:01
  the even amongst the Jews, Hebrew was more of
• 1:44:05
  a liturgical language, in the same way that Latin
• 1:44:08
  is for a Catholic church. And it's like, yeah,
• 1:44:11
  it's for the people that study old texts. They'll
• 1:44:15
  know the language, but no one really speaks it,
• 1:44:17
  which is why things are written in Koine Greek.
• 1:44:20
  That's the common language then, that's what
• 1:44:22
  people know. And so Jesus, we actually see that
• 1:44:26
  in the Sermon on the Mount, it's written very
• 1:44:27
  poetically in Greek. because he spoke it in Greek.
• 1:44:33
  But we also see moments, this is one of them,
• 1:44:35
  where he speaks in Hebrew, and it makes sense
• 1:44:38
  that he would have known that because he studied
• 1:44:39
  those texts. He studied that language. And same
• 1:44:42
  for Saul. Yeah, he studied those languages. He
• 1:44:46
  was a fit. He was studying to be a Pharisee,
• 1:44:48
  right? It's like he would have known that Yeah,
• 1:44:50
  these are all witnesses to the details Yeah,
• 1:44:53
  like if you just pay attention to the subtleties
• 1:44:55
  of what is what is actually written Yeah, it's
• 1:44:58
  all telling you that this stuff is all corroborating
• 1:45:01
  with each other It's all linking in in this this
• 1:45:03
  really pretty intricate puzzle you go. Hey, why
• 1:45:07
  did he say saw instead of Paul? Well Paul says
• 1:45:10
  he spoke it in Hebrew. It's so cool. Yeah. Which
• 1:45:13
  would have been unlikely for Jesus for the most
• 1:45:16
  part. Yeah. Except in some ways you also have
• 1:45:20
  this element where Saul is carrying this out
• 1:45:25
  from the high priest. Right. And so he's doing
• 1:45:29
  a kind of a rabbinical practice. Which is actually
• 1:45:34
  cooler that Jesus during this moment did speak
• 1:45:37
  in Hebrew. Yes. Because, I mean, when Jesus read
• 1:45:40
  from the scrolls in the synagogue, he was most
• 1:45:42
  likely reading in Hebrew. Yeah. For some of those,
• 1:45:45
  at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's... Yeah,
• 1:45:48
  it's up to him. Yeah, depending on what he was
• 1:45:50
  actually reading, why he was reading it. But
• 1:45:53
  he would have read the Hebrew text. Right. And
• 1:45:56
  so for him to speak that actually, in some ways,
• 1:45:58
  brings more authority. Yes. Because that language
• 1:46:01
  for Saul was tied directly to the Old Testament.
• 1:46:04
  Yes. Yeah, and and to address something that
• 1:46:08
  I always thought was really funny is in this
• 1:46:13
  Because you mentioned it when I read from Acts
• 1:46:15
  9, but when it says When he says Saul Saul, why
• 1:46:20
  are you persecuting me? Oh, and then I have this
• 1:46:23
  referenced out. There's no reason to get into
• 1:46:25
  it, but Saul's responses and I said who are you
• 1:46:29
  Lord and I always thought was funny I actually
• 1:46:32
  potentially preached a message where I was like
• 1:46:34
  where I was like, this feels redundant that he
• 1:46:37
  says, I might've said that at some point in the
• 1:46:39
  message, but it feels redundant that he says
• 1:46:43
  Lord, but the word for Lord here is actually
• 1:46:46
  synonymous with sir or like head of household.
• 1:46:49
  So what he's doing is he's being blinded in the
• 1:46:53
  moment and he doesn't know what's going on. But
• 1:46:56
  he does know that whoever is addressing him is
• 1:47:00
  superior to him. And so he says Lord, not as
• 1:47:05
  in Elohim or as in Yahweh, but he says Lord as
• 1:47:09
  in like master of the house. So he says it in
• 1:47:14
  a way that's honoring of someone who is of greater
• 1:47:17
  authority than him. So you could almost read
• 1:47:21
  it as he said, who are you, sir? Like that would
• 1:47:24
  be synonymous with us. That's really interesting.
• 1:47:27
  Yeah, so he's not saying like Lord God. He's
• 1:47:30
  saying Lord Master. Yeah. Or head of household.
• 1:47:35
  So which that's, I feel like that's a like. That's
• 1:47:38
  really interesting. Right in the middle there.
• 1:47:40
  But that's what I mean is like all this language
• 1:47:43
  is here. And then here he says that in this conversion.
• 1:47:48
  that Jesus says, I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
• 1:47:52
  but rise and stand upon your feet. For I have
• 1:47:56
  appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint
• 1:47:59
  you as a servant and witness to the things in
• 1:48:02
  which you have seen me and to those in which
• 1:48:06
  I will appear to you, delivering you from your
• 1:48:09
  people and from the Gentiles to whom I am sending
• 1:48:13
  you to open their eyes so that they may turn
• 1:48:17
  from darkness to light, and from the power of
• 1:48:20
  Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness
• 1:48:24
  of sins and a place among those who are sanctified
• 1:48:28
  by faith in Me." That's way more detailed than
• 1:48:31
  what we get in Acts 9. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah,
• 1:48:34
  so what we see here is what is Jesus calling
• 1:48:39
  Saul to do? He's calling him to turn from his
• 1:48:44
  Hebrew Yeah, and into his Greek. Yeah from his
• 1:48:52
  Jewishness into his Christianity Stepping from
• 1:48:56
  Hebrew into Greek to go from the Jewish people
• 1:49:00
  who Jesus came to save Yeah in order to go out
• 1:49:05
  and take the message to the Gentile. Yeah, who
• 1:49:09
  Paul is commissioned to then go and preach the
• 1:49:12
  good news to. So you have this interplay here
• 1:49:15
  with how Jesus is addressing Saul between Hebrew
• 1:49:19
  and Greek. Yeah. And you have this interplay
• 1:49:22
  here where all that stuff is interlaced. Yeah.
• 1:49:25
  And it's a cool picture because Paul is the most
• 1:49:28
  classically rabbinic out of all of them. Right.
• 1:49:31
  He was not a rabbi. Yeah. He was studying to
• 1:49:33
  be one. Yeah. And it's like it's cool because
• 1:49:36
  the other apostles did not have that training
• 1:49:40
  in the same way. And so it's cool, especially
• 1:49:42
  when we look at Isaiah 66, which Paul would have
• 1:49:45
  known very well, that mission, it's like, it's
• 1:49:50
  cool that he's the one who takes that the furthest
• 1:49:53
  to the Gentiles, where Peter was very apprehensive
• 1:49:57
  to the idea. And we see that with a lot of the
• 1:49:59
  other apostles. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 1:50:00
  this is new to me. But for Paul, it's like, oh
• 1:50:03
  yeah, of course. Because he knows what, the vision
• 1:50:08
  is. Right. He knows what the narrative is. Yeah.
• 1:50:10
  And so when he hears that from Jesus, he's like,
• 1:50:13
  yeah, of course that's what you want. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:50:16
  And I think on a simple, like, practical level,
• 1:50:19
  having looked at all of these things back to
• 1:50:22
  what you've introduced as the potential argument
• 1:50:25
  against looking at and using some of, well, really
• 1:50:30
  half of the New Testament in validating Paul's
• 1:50:33
  teachings. There's so many things One is, like,
• 1:50:39
  you'd have to go against scripture being God
• 1:50:42
  -breathed. Because if it's canonical, then that
• 1:50:46
  would fall underneath that moniker, it would
• 1:50:49
  fall underneath that truth. But you'd also have
• 1:50:53
  to ignore that, like, if what you're standing
• 1:50:57
  on is Jesus and Paul never met, what does that
• 1:51:01
  have to do with anything? Such a flimsy argument.
• 1:51:03
  Yeah, the reason why I say that is because There
• 1:51:07
  are so many places in the Old Testament where
• 1:51:10
  the same way that we see in Acts, Jesus and Paul
• 1:51:15
  together, or Jesus and Saul together, we see
• 1:51:19
  that with all of the prophets of old, with the
• 1:51:23
  Lord, or with messengers sent to prophets of
• 1:51:26
  old. So why would that not carry out in the New
• 1:51:31
  Testament the same way? Like it doesn't mean
• 1:51:34
  that like because Michael the archangel doesn't
• 1:51:37
  like go to school With one of the older prophets.
• 1:51:41
  It's like it doesn't mean that like their word
• 1:51:44
  is valid. Yeah Okay, well, you're just trying
• 1:51:46
  to find ways to like I it It's it's either it
• 1:51:51
  either is true or it's not like you can't just
• 1:51:54
  go this part's not true And this part that's
• 1:51:57
  fine. It can stay right Well, that doesn't make
• 1:51:59
  any sense. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:52:02
  you don't go to a movie and leave halfway through
• 1:52:05
  and you're like, well, the first part was true,
• 1:52:07
  but the back part, that's not part of the movie.
• 1:52:11
  What do you mean it's not part of the movie?
• 1:52:13
  It's in the movie. How is it not part of the
• 1:52:17
  movie? That doesn't make sense. You know what
• 1:52:19
  I mean? Yeah. It's an illogical argument. Especially
• 1:52:23
  when we have, even if you take that argument,
• 1:52:26
  and let's say for the sake of argument, that
• 1:52:28
  they had no physical connection at all. Okay.
• 1:52:33
  Well, what do you do with Peter who says that
• 1:52:35
  Paul's writings are scripture? And it's like,
• 1:52:39
  well, hold on, Peter, you can't deny that he
• 1:52:40
  knew Jesus. Sure. And he's saying, yeah, he's
• 1:52:43
  speaking with the same authority. Right. It's
• 1:52:46
  like, whoa. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And not
• 1:52:50
  to mention like going into early church fathers,
• 1:52:53
  you go into like Clement. Clement I, who died,
• 1:52:58
  I believe, in like 90 A .D., something like that.
• 1:53:02
  And if he died in 90 A .D., then he's probably
• 1:53:04
  alive at some point, 40, 50, 60 A .D., most likely.
• 1:53:10
  And then you have Ignatius and Polycarp, and
• 1:53:14
  these first couple hundred years, where there
• 1:53:17
  are other letters to the same churches, like
• 1:53:22
  you look at it's... Like there's letters to the
• 1:53:26
  church at Ephesus. There's letters to the church
• 1:53:29
  in Philippi. There's letters from these early
• 1:53:33
  church fathers being sent around and they're
• 1:53:36
  all referencing Paul. They're all referencing
• 1:53:39
  Paul's work and Paul's earlier letters to the
• 1:53:43
  same churches. There's so many things throughout
• 1:53:46
  that create this continuity where Paul's letters
• 1:53:54
  are valid to the core of what the church is.
• 1:53:58
  And those people didn't build the church, Jesus
• 1:54:01
  did. And so as you look through that, in Acts
• 1:54:06
  you literally see Jesus appearing to Saul on
• 1:54:11
  the road to Damascus. And if he appears to Saul
• 1:54:15
  on the road to Damascus and he is Jesus, then
• 1:54:19
  him appearing From the heavens opening up is
• 1:54:23
  no different than him appearing post resurrection
• 1:54:26
  Yeah, his body didn't change from post resurrection
• 1:54:29
  to being in heaven Right in the ascension like
• 1:54:33
  after the ascension his body doesn't change then
• 1:54:36
  it changes after the resurrection Yeah, but this
• 1:54:40
  is still post resurrection. So him being so Jesus
• 1:54:43
  being in the room with his disciples after the
• 1:54:47
  resurrection His body is the same as when he
• 1:54:50
  appears from heaven to Saul on the road to Damascus.
• 1:54:53
  And there's no reason why we should think it
• 1:54:55
  any different. So if he doesn't appear, if that's
• 1:54:58
  not Jesus appearing to Saul in the same resurrected
• 1:55:02
  way, then it also nullifies Jesus showing up
• 1:55:07
  in his glorified body to the disciples. It would
• 1:55:09
  have to. Because it's the same Jesus, and it's
• 1:55:13
  the same... post resurrection conversation. I
• 1:55:16
  mean, we even see that in the conversion where
• 1:55:18
  he identifies himself. Yes. And it's just like,
• 1:55:21
  well, yeah. Yeah. It's in the same way. It's
• 1:55:23
  like if you if I was sleeping on the floor and
• 1:55:25
  someone you came and woke me up, like Paul, like,
• 1:55:27
  who are you? Like, I'm Stephen. Yeah. It's like,
• 1:55:31
  well, yeah, I see this blinding light staring
• 1:55:32
  me in the eye. And it's like, I know who you
• 1:55:34
  are. Yeah. But now I'm disrupted. Right. It's
• 1:55:38
  like, who is this? Yeah. Who are you? Yeah. Well,
• 1:55:41
  I don't think he did. He didn't know who he was,
• 1:55:43
  though. That's why he says because he couldn't
• 1:55:46
  see But you know in the beginning of this conversation
• 1:55:52
  we juxtapose Moses one of the things that's really
• 1:55:55
  cool about this instance is You have God making
• 1:56:00
  his covenant originally with Abram with Abraham
• 1:56:04
  and When he does that he does the sacrifice all
• 1:56:08
  in and of himself But then he lays out his law
• 1:56:12
  through who? Through Moses. And how does he appear
• 1:56:17
  to Moses? And what does he say to Moses? Moses
• 1:56:22
  says, who are you? And he says, I am that I am.
• 1:56:27
  Saul says, who are you? And he says, I am Jesus.
• 1:56:31
  It's the same thing. That's so cool. It's cool.
• 1:56:34
  It's all the same. The Lord doesn't change. Like
• 1:56:38
  from age to age, generation to generation, He
• 1:56:41
  is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It's
• 1:56:45
  the same. The way it's portrayed, the way it's
• 1:56:49
  worked out in the Old Testament, it's worked
• 1:56:51
  out exactly the same way in the New Testament.
• 1:56:53
  And it parallels it. And yeah, that's why it's
• 1:56:58
  important for us to read and understand all of
• 1:57:01
  it all at once. Yeah. Well, I think that's what's
• 1:57:04
  so interesting because there are consistently
• 1:57:06
  those claims against Paul or against any writer
• 1:57:10
  of any book in the Bible in a lot of ways of
• 1:57:12
  like, oh, they all contradict each other and
• 1:57:14
  they all blah, blah, blah and this and that.
• 1:57:16
  It's like, OK, but like they don't. Yeah. And
• 1:57:19
  it's actually more impressive than that. The
• 1:57:21
  fact that there are so many writers and everything
• 1:57:24
  has so much layers and depth to it. Yeah. To
• 1:57:27
  the point even where it's like these stories
• 1:57:29
  over are over arc. And there's so many details
• 1:57:32
  that line up perfectly with each other and parallel
• 1:57:34
  one another. It's like, you can't tell me that
• 1:57:37
  this is just some guys winging it. It's like,
• 1:57:40
  no, there's something deeper going on here. And
• 1:57:42
  I think that's why we can be studying one book,
• 1:57:47
  the collection of scripture that we have for
• 1:57:50
  so long. Yeah, absolutely. The fact that it's
• 1:57:53
  like all they had at the time of the early church.
• 1:57:59
  was they had the law and the prophets. And they
• 1:58:03
  studied that for that entire time. And what do
• 1:58:08
  we do now? We study the law and the prophets
• 1:58:10
  plus the extra stuff that we now have. But it's
• 1:58:13
  like, oh, we just added more to stuff we already
• 1:58:16
  didn't fully get. Like, oh, this is more complicated
• 1:58:20
  now. But it's like, well, how can we keep learning
• 1:58:23
  from it and keep studying it? Because there's
• 1:58:24
  so much in here. That's not some random novel
• 1:58:30
  some guy decided to write one day. This is bigger
• 1:58:34
  than a Stephen King book. Yeah, it's cool, because
• 1:58:39
  it all reflects itself. And the statement is
• 1:58:43
  true that God is the one who was and is and is
• 1:58:48
  to come. And he doesn't change. We need to like
• 1:58:55
  that's one of the things that I feel like is
• 1:58:57
  important if if you're a person that looks at
• 1:59:00
  the Bible and says God's flip -flopping. He's
• 1:59:04
  like he's changing here. He's conch. It's contradicting
• 1:59:07
  What I would say is you haven't read it enough.
• 1:59:10
  You have it You haven't studied enough to show
• 1:59:13
  yourself approved. You haven't gone into it and
• 1:59:16
  gone. Hey, I don't understand this You can't
• 1:59:19
  just, if you don't understand it, you can't just
• 1:59:21
  say, well, this contradicts that. No, study to
• 1:59:26
  understand, study and humble yourself. That's
• 1:59:30
  the biggest thing is a humble yourself in order
• 1:59:34
  for the Holy Spirit to reveal to you all of these
• 1:59:37
  connections that are in the scriptures where
• 1:59:40
  God is revealed through his word. Yeah. And it's
• 1:59:44
  not it's not like some magic book, like it's
• 1:59:46
  just not. But if we haven't spent the time to
• 1:59:52
  be in the Word, and we haven't spent the time
• 1:59:55
  and humbled ourselves and put ourselves low,
• 2:00:00
  then yeah, it's gonna be foolishness. And if
• 2:00:03
  you're a person that says it's foolishness, then
• 2:00:07
  the Word of God itself tells us that you are
• 2:00:10
  foolish. So if you want to say, like maybe that's
• 2:00:16
  a strong way to end this. It is strong. But if
• 2:00:19
  you're a person that says part of it is foolishness,
• 2:00:21
  this doesn't make sense. It contradicts itself.
• 2:00:24
  All of those things. The Bible, the word of God
• 2:00:26
  itself says you are foolish. Yeah. Which is a
• 2:00:30
  very Paul appropriate. Yeah, true. Paul gets
• 2:00:35
  me fired up. He does. He's a fiery guy. Yeah.
• 2:00:39
  But yeah, I mean, that's what it is when we look
• 2:00:41
  at the New Testament. Nothing said in the New
• 2:00:43
  Testament is new. Right. Even though we call
• 2:00:45
  it the New Testament. All it is is a revelation
• 2:00:48
  of what has already been said. Yeah, and it's...
• 2:00:52
  It's the revealing of who the people are. Yeah,
• 2:00:55
  of Jesus. It's saying like, hey, it's been encoded
• 2:00:59
  throughout... the scriptures in the Old Testament.
• 2:01:02
  And now I'm just going to point it out. I'm giving
• 2:01:04
  you the code now. It's like all this thing, this
• 2:01:08
  combination here, the answer is Jesus. Now just
• 2:01:10
  plug that in. Yeah. And like Paul says in Romans,
• 2:01:13
  it's a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness
• 2:01:18
  to the Gentiles. So if the gospel is foolishness
• 2:01:22
  to you, well then you agree with Paul. Three
• 2:01:29
  two one