Latest / Brandon Fogal Evolution / #327 - Tucker Carlson, J.D. Hall & the Judaism Debate: Temple, Tradition, and Truth

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#327 - Tucker Carlson, J.D. Hall & the Judaism Debate: Temple, Tradition, and Truth · Brandon Fogal Evolution

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My name is Brandon Fogel. This is Evolution. We're going to be diving into it.
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I got a special guest today.
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We are going to be talking about J.D. Hall and Tucker Carlson.
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I just spoke about this in yesterday's video, but I'm going to be talking about
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this. And I have actually my wife here, my lovely wife, Jessie Fogel. Hello.
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So we're going to be bouncing it. You're going to be in my wall that can...
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I'm trying to think of a word that can give me pointers or help bring me down
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to earth. because you do that pretty well, Jesse.
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We'll see. We'll see how this goes. All right. We're doing it on the fly.
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But we're going to figure out how long this goes. I'm manning the controls myself,
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so if there's any lag, it's on me, and I own that.
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All right, but we're going to take a look at J.D. Hall and Tucker Carlson.
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They discussed this was in their sit-down, which they went into a lot of areas
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regarding Judaism, Israel, and is it good for the church?
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Have people been led astray by the things that they believe about Israel?
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It was a very hot button conversation.
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And what they got into here was regarding rabbinic Judaism. Almost J.D.
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Hall made it seem like it's not a valid viewpoint. It's not connected with the
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Old Testament. It's not connected with real Judaism.
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It's like almost a made-up thing since there is no temple and no sacrificial system.
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But we're going to dive into this. And so, Jesse, you can just give me whatever
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you think about it as we go along, but here we go.
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Rabbinic Judaism is not Christianity minus Jesus. That's what Christians need to understand.
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It is a completely different faith from what you see in the pages of your Old Testament.
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Because that faith required the presence of a temple where God lived.
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Yes, absolutely. It's in the architecture of the religion.
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God designed it so that it could not endure without the temple.
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That's why God is always promising the Jewish people in the pages of the Old
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Testament that if they misbehave, he will have the land bomb them out.
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He will bring them into exile.
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He will wipe the land free of them.
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So first of all, we're going to go in and out of this because in this part of
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the conversation, this is where he really got into it about.
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And I think that it felt like he was throwing Judaism under the bus in a lot
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of ways, mischaracterizing it kind of from my perspective, from my perspective,
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you know, I'm not, I really, I'm not where I think I speak with absolute authority.
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Like this is, this is the correct way.
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And I know a lot of people on the internet, like that's what you feel like you
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need to be like that to be a voice that stands out but i'm as any other normal
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regular christian that i want to come to the truth i want to,
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but i don't think that i all all truth is inside of my head but jesse just getting
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into this i you and we i didn't prep her it at all so she's kind of fresh coming
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into this probably doesn't have any like,
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strong viewpoints about this matter at all? I don't know.
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But go ahead, Jesse, if you have anything regarding this, if you,
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she doesn't want to be hung out to dry. She says, don't hang me out to dry.
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I almost need like a recap of even what they said.
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Okay. So just getting into this and that he started off with that rabbinic Judaism
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is not necessarily just Christianity minus Jesus.
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It's just that it's almost that it is a different,
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viewpoint than the actual old testament it's like completely new like they've
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like because there's no temple because there's no temple they've created it
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completely out of thin air pretty much okay,
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so okay so i would just say for for me my perspective that it is it is a continuation
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of the same viewpoint in the old testament like,
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and i would start it off with how like whenever,
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the Jewish people went out into exile.
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God, he promised them if they kept the covenant, if they obeyed his laws that
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he would bless them in the land and he wouldn't vomit them out of the land,
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But then we see that there are times and periods and times that the people go
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and are thrown out of the land.
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You know what I mean? They're thrown, they're tossed out of the land.
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They go into Babylonian exile.
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And to say that because they're in exile, that they're no longer legitimately
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practicing the religion.
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Do you know what I mean? Okay, because they're not in the land where the temple is. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
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But jesse i'm i'm throwing this like about this like from your perspective at
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all i know and you are you stay out of all this i don't know if this probably
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doesn't make you you don't like really get into this type of stuff that much,
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you don't think about this do you but feel free yeah go ahead.
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Uh feel free to what question like so just did you have any comments about it,
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no nothing okay we're good to go we're good to get where i'm i i have a lot
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of things what do you have to say about it?
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What do I have to say? I have a lot of things to say about it,
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but we'll go a little bit further regarding this with J.D. Hall and Tucker Carlson.
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And he created a religion that would be temporary.
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It all revolves around the temple, and they weren't free to change that religion either.
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I'll give you an example. There's a story in the Old Testament of two guys that
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were left behind to essentially guard the altar as Moses and the elders go up on the mountain.
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Their names were Nadab and Abihu.
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So Jesse, you're familiar with this story, Nadab and Abihu, right?
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Are they good or bad? No, Nadab.
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Huh? Oh, Nadab and Abihu. So these were the first priests of Israel.
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These were like the first guys who were appointed.
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And then they got killed because they were offering unauthorized fire on the
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altar. Right, right, right. Yeah.
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So he's making a comparison that because these guys did not the prescripted
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way that God had given them, that they weren't practicing right.
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And I don't really necessarily understand his whole point when he brings this
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up, besides to say that they were carrying the religion incorrectly.
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But it doesn't mean that the religion in itself, the way that the God prescribed
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it, was invalid to be carried out.
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So I think this is almost, to me, a red herring.
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In bringing this whole situation or this episode that happened with Nadab and
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Abihu, It doesn't really fit with what he's talking about, because the way I
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get into this is that to say, because if we just step back a little bit, what is Judaism?
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What is rabbinic Judaism? Do you know anything about those particular topics?
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No, I do not. You don't know anything about it?
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Tell me like I'm five. Okay. Well, I mean, just Judaism in general.
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Do you know what Judaism is? It's the religion of Jesus at the time, right?
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Of the Old Testament? Yes. Old Testament religion. With the sacrifices and the laws and things.
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Yeah. Yes. And so it's the religion of Jesus. It's the religion that is given
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in the Old Testament. It's the religion of the Jewish people.
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And rabbinic Judaism has been, they make it seem like it was just created after Jesus.
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A way to keep everything intact. So it's like.
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The Jews were given the law, which is like the first five books of Moses,
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but then they were given also the, they were given the responsibility to decide
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how to actually carry out the law.
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And so if like the law says, keep the Sabbath, well, how do you do that?
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You know what I mean? What does that even mean?
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And so there's the tradition, like in Christianity, we have traditions, But like in the
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with the Jews, they have traditions of that God gave them the authority to rightly
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interpret even his laws and to make kind of laws around his laws
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of how to actually in frameworks to actually how to carry it out. Mm hmm.
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So that's kind of like, and it developed into, which is the written Torah,
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the written law, and then the oral Torah or the oral law that the Jews abide by.
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And it's kind of like the ones written down, obviously, that's what it means.
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And the oral is just, it's just the spoken.
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But then the spoken oral Torah was eventually after Jesus codified into what's
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the Mishnah and the Talmud.
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And there's like all those like kind of like this, these discussions between
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rabbis and how to rightly carry out laws that they wrote it all down,
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like in the like kind of the like the centuries after Jesus. Does that make sense?
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So about all that and getting into this. So I just throw it out to you.
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So does that make what do you think about like when I say rabbinic Judaism?
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What do you think about that?
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How is that different than regular Judaism?
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That's a good question. And it's, I think it's just this, uh,
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label. It feels like just this label that we've, that we've thrown on there.
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It's just a way of just like, was Jesus practicing rabbinic Judaism?
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Like, and I would say that this is where I kind of, bottom line,
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I think it is the same thing.
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I think that we're creating it, we're making it rabbinic Judaism and just labeling
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it that so that we can disconnect it from being tethered to truth and almost like,
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we're making something up because we are like, we have Christianity.
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Christianity is the fulfillment.
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It's the new reality. It's the new man and everything before it was just leading
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up to it. It's, it's kind of like for our infancy, for people's infancy.
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And the, and now we're, now that we have like kind of the fulfillment of Jesus,
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we don't need all that stuff beforehand kind of thing.
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But what do you, what do you think? About what?
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About, about, about that. I don't know. It has nothing to do with me really
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on my daily life, I guess. I guess I don't know.
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So I'm even just talking about this when I'm, when I'm going through this and
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you can tell me, like, I might be describing it completely terribly.
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I, I know you don't think about this stuff probably in the same way that I do,
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or even just a lot of people on YouTube that are, are, are watching these,
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these videos, these conversations like Tucker Carlson has that,
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you're not like in a, like in it, you know?
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I mean, I guess like just somebody that's just like involved in like watching
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sports, you know, like what the stat line is, you know, what's what's the cover
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on this game? Who's who's projected to win? Who's all this?
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So and you could probably speak a lot more about like clothing,
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fashion, dresses and your stuff.
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And I like you won't even let me touch your shows, will you?
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About about your show that you because you don't know anything about it. Yeah.
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But from your vantage point in talking about this rabbinic Judaism,
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and do you have any thoughts about it? Like, does it?
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I mean, what are they supposed to be doing? There's no temple.
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What do you think they're supposed to be doing?
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And I would say that that is the issue that is being brought up by J.D. Hall.
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And Tucker Carlson, he's just kind of listening to this man.
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I don't know if he's a pastor or what he is exactly.
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But his perspective is that he's saying that they're kind of not a valid representation of...
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Of like, like Jesus wasn't doing the same things that they're doing,
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that rabbinic Judaism is doing, like pretty much just Jewish people in general.
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That's really what it is. It's like, how do we operate with there not being
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a temple and not being a way to have sacrifices, not being able to carry out
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the laws of Moses that is handed out to them.
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So really like, and I want to jump back into this a little, to go a bit further,
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like let him carry out his thought regarding the Nadab in a bayou situation
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and like just see what you can pick up what you hear from it and what sounds
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like something to even comment on took,
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their own light and decided to light the altar with their own fire.
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That king james calls it strange fire because it wasn't native to the altar
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it was their own light they use their own zippo in other words,
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And God destroyed them. He killed them. Those two guys, the ground swallowed
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them up and ate them, destroyed them in fire because,
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the faith of the Old Testament was given, the cultic religion,
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to Israel very specifically.
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It had to be observed a very specific way through the specific means that God gave.
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They weren't supposed to deviate at all. It's like the guy that reached out
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to grab the Holy of Holies before it hit the ground and God killed.
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Well, God didn't tell him to touch it. He told him.
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So it's just, and this is like where I, I, I completely agree.
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It's like, it's just, God is very particular.
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If he says to do something, he wants it done a certain way, especially it seems
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like in the Old Testament and like in the laws that are given.
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This is like completely foreign to our normal way of Christian life that we
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could carry out Christianity today.
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So it doesn't a lot of times compute to just people that are familiar just with
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going to church on sunday and the answer is always just jesus bible you know
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and just simple you know what i mean,
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this it's not to mean that like we've dumbed it down but we have simplified
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the message in a lot of ways that people weren't really used to and familiar
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with dumb down what we've kind of like i missed one word.
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No no we've like i think we've we've we've made it really simple because it's
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not that we want to treat people like, as like, they're not,
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they're not in the know, or like they, they, they, they can't handle all of this.
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They, they can only handle a certain amount, but rather like when the apostles
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came, like they, the message was the kingdom of God and the gospel.
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And we've kind of taken the gospel message and we've run with it.
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And that's it. Just Jesus's life, burial, death, and resurrection.
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And we, we think that things that aren't that needed today, like that we aren't
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actually actively carrying out today, that it's really no longer, it's a relic of the past.
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But just getting into this, like, do you see kind of like the difference,
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like him bringing up the Nadab in a Bayou situation?
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I know where he, I get where he's going with that. He's saying that it's just
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that they were doing it in a way that God had not prescribed so that they weren't
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like the true, real priests of God in the same way that today people that are doing Judaism,
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they can't do it. They can't go to the temple and sacrifice.
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So they're no longer a real religion. And I would just say there were times
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in the Old Testament that the people were thrown out of the land.
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And even out of the Old Testament, they had to be able to like to say that Daniel
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wasn't a real Jew or wasn't validly conducting himself in his religion,
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in his faith because he couldn't go to the temple. The temple had been destroyed. So what?
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Back then they had the temple in Jerusalem and they had a bunch of synagogues, right?
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Yes. I mean, they had the temple. Yeah. Did they do the sacrifices and everything at the synagogues or no?
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No, the only sacrifices that only happened at the temple.
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Okay. So why have they built it yet?
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Okay. And most Christians, and I would even myself would have said this,
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like that it's no longer, we don't need a temple.
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Jesus is the temple. Jesus is the sacrifice. I know. He's the high priest.
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I know, but if you're saying the Jews now, aren't you saying they're practicing a wrong religion?
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Well they this guy is saying that JD Hall is saying that I'm not saying I wouldn't
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say that I'm saying that they are disconnected they did not embrace the Messiah when he came.
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But that doesn't mean that like from that point on just because they did something
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very evil and rejected him and not all of them rejected him obviously the whole
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foundation of the church was all Jewish people okay so yeah,
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Jesus was in Judaism and then, but now we're Christianity because we believe
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in Jesus, but he was Jewish.
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So what happens to Judaism now? Is it right? Is it wrong?
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I don't need to sacrifice and everything. And I would say, do they?
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It's not like, see, that's the, that's the difference. It's not like need to
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sacrifice. I don't think they ever needed to sacrifice. Like it was because
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even the sacrificing of the animals wasn't actually removing their sins.
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It was, I think in a specific time period in history that they were able to
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commune with the holy God, like the true and living God.
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And God made it a way that he was revealing himself and manifesting his presence.
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And the only way that they could approach the holiness of God through the temple,
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was if blood was spilled animals, like the way that he had prescribed.
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And it was just like almost like a covering it was like cleansing them so that
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in ritual purity that was kind of like the main thing so that they could approach
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him it wasn't actually i know i know i mean i i get that,
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like why is there still why do what are the jewish people still doing yeah why
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are they why is there still judaism or why isn't all of us called judaism if
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that's what jesus was himself,
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i it's because it's the same uh people and same religion that even from the
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time of moses from the time of.
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Abraham it's the same like lineage and people for the most part,
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that they're they just missed the the big sign that the messiah was there in their midst
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and they're just continuing that religion without him they're they're they're
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still like driving down the road and but they've just missed picking up the
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the most important passenger right along the ride but like nothing we do,
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i don't know i just don't know why there's christianity in judaism.
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Like why there is because it, well, Christianity is just like,
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it became, I would say it became primarily a religion of Gentiles and that it's just, they, like,
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they took the name of, because the Gentiles, like the, the early believers were
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called Christians and they developed it into this religion, which is primarily just.
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They, it's not even a sect of Judaism.
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It became, it morphed into this whole new framework and,
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ideology and idea, which was like kind of like this new people that because
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the Messiah was here, this new people is replaced all the original people.
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And it's like most people would not use that terminology that we've replaced
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them, that replacement theology, but that is kind of what it boils down to.
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A lot of times people get hung up on labels or words, but really like,
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what are you meaning when you're saying those words?
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You know so i would just say like about that like why is there still judaism
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well do you kind of get why it's because it's the same religion going that was
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happening but they missed jesus yeah and they're just still going but now they
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don't have a way to live out the law or,
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like fully live out the law because they don't have a temple but can you just
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imagine like if you were just a jew back then,
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and like it would just wouldn't it just change like rock like the core of who
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you were Wouldn't it change your religion all of a sudden?
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But what are you talking about? Like there's just believing in Jesus.
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But what do you mean by that? Because it's like these people,
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they would have just been there.
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I mean, I guess that's the whole
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time they were looking. They knew Messiah was coming. They knew that.
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So why do you think with all the miracles and everything, why did they miss it? How'd they miss it?
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He was just too humble and too humble beginnings and stuff?
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Well, I mean, the conversation was primarily between like Jesus and the Jewish
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leaders and the Jewish leaders just missed the boat. They and they didn't want
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anything to do because he was challenging their authority.
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It had been kind of like the religious leaders of Israel today.
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You know, there's rabbis, high people in high authority.
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And it was it would have cost them everything to,
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surrender to him because he wasn't coming in to take over like the take over
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rome defy the romans and just install his kingdom right then which was what
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they wanted so they just like,
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you know we've heard these things all the time that they they wanted a messiah
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that was going to be in the like the messiah.
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Like king david who was going to just overthrow everything and set up his kingdom
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and everything to be you know all the promises that are in the old Testament
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to be fulfilled right in their, in their midst.
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Like what we look forward to in Jesus's second coming, that's what they wanted
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right then. And they, they didn't really separate a first and second coming.
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You know what I mean? So it's like, they're carrying out, like those same people
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are carrying out the laws and they've made it into, like, they've added a lot of things to it.
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And this is kind of like the issue that Jesus was having when he was having
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these conversations with the rabbis of his day or those leaders.
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It's the same issue. Like they were making laws and he was, I think Jesus was
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all for, like, he was good with additional laws to, like, kind of be like hedges
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or protect God's holy law.
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But when something goes in and undoes it or makes it so you can't actually fulfill God's actual law.
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If you set up a law around it just to protect you from possibly breaking it
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at all, but then you've made it so insulated that you're not even fulfilling
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what God originally said.
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And I think that was what Jesus was hammering home to these people and it's
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just a different mindset like these were jews and jesus was a jew the apostles
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were jews this was an in-house discussion of how to,
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rightly carry out god's law and jesus that's what he was arguing with them about all the time,
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it wasn't like it wasn't this jesus against the jews kind of thing but we've
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kind of in our mind made it that way because that's the way it comes off in
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the pages of the New Testament, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm.
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Let's go a little bit further about this because this whole concept in a discussion that J.D.
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Hall breaks down and gets into is very intriguing to me because he makes it
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seem like them using this unauthorized fire or whatever, that they were,
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it just disqualified the whole religion because they were doing that.
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That's what it seems like to me what he's insinuating.
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Not to touch it. Follow God's rules is the point. It's a very precise religion
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because everything is designed to point to Jesus in a very specific way.
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And so the Passover religion that they're, or rather the Passover rite that
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they're observing, and in fact,
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most of rabbinic Judaism is way more deviated from the Old Testament than just
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what Zippo was used to light the altar.
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It's a complete manufacture of new rites and rituals.
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So this right here, to me, it makes it so clear.
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This is how most people see it. This is how most people are looking at this.
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They're not entangled in the nuances of Judaism and what it actually is and
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the conversation that is happening.
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Because we've taken Christianity, we've taken Christ, we have Christ, that's it.
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We don't want to get into what Jesus actually himself believed or what he would
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have taught necessarily, because it kind of a lot of the things he taught go
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against what we fundamentally do today in Christianity. Like what?
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One of the things is he said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill
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the law and a lot that we've kind of made it seem like well he,
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that he said i didn't come to abolish the law but i came to abolish the law
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light like i came to like that we use that word fulfill in the same way as
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abolish but just a different term for it like in all practical purposes mean
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in this instance then like to to fully carry it out like to be the embodiment
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of it to to the fullest measure,
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to the extreme doesn't that just mean he followed all these perfectly so he
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fulfilled it yeah he did he rightly carried them out completely in in perfectness
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he did it so we don't have but that's the leap that most people take that's,
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he fulfilled it that means we don't have to and i,
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so this is the difference that i i would say him talking his primary primary
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audience is jewish people that was the conversation it was happening having
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to primarily jewish people who's jesus jesus when he's talking about that so,
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him like i think the law is still in effect but it doesn't it doesn't apply
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exactly the same to jews as it does to gentiles there are things that like the
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the jews are completely under the yoke of the entire law that means they have to
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if they disobey anything in the law.
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They're sinning.
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But there's things then in the law that aren't exactly prescribed to Gentiles.
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Like, Jews have to keep kosher. They have to not eat unclean animals.
25:37
But that law was never, ever given to Gentiles.
25:40
And even today in rabbinic Judaism, they wouldn't expect, it's a specific covenant
25:47
that God made with the Jewish people at Mount Sinai.
25:50
You know what I mean? But what do you think about? And the abolishing as opposed to the fulfilling?
25:56
Because this is different than a lot of people, even normal, regular Christians.
26:00
Like if we go to church on Sunday, most of the people there aren't going to
26:04
necessarily agree with that. Most people think that it is Jesus nailed the commandments
26:09
to the cross that we don't necessarily need to keep them.
26:14
To be almost like, who's that guy that, he's a pastor in Georgia.
26:19
I forget his name. he's, we've watched a lot of videos about him,
26:22
but he's like, it's not, we're not under commandments, but we're,
26:25
we're, what does love require? That's the commandment we have to live by. What does love require?
26:30
And I, I, I would say that that's right, but it's, it's not that we don't,
26:35
aren't throwing out the law. I think the law is still active and in effect, but I don't know.
26:40
Most people, this is kind of the disagreement. Even most Christians,
26:43
like I would say the majority of Christians aren't going to agree with what I'm saying right there.
26:50
But I think that this is a very key point that people have made,
26:53
that they make it a distinction-less theology, saying Gentiles and Jews are the exact same.
27:00
That because Jesus is here, God has made one new man.
27:04
There's no distinction between male or female, Jew or Gentile,
27:08
whatever, slaver, the terminology that Paul uses.
27:13
But we understand that we take that out of context. We stripped it out of context.
27:18
Paul's talking about in regard to salvation, how we're made right with God.
27:22
And he's driving home that point because it's like assumed in that day and age,
27:26
obviously there's a difference between Jews and Gentiles.
27:29
Obviously there's a difference between males and females.
27:32
I don't think that's been obliterated.
27:36
So, I mean, from your perspective, in hearing this, and I know we don't always talk about this stuff,
27:42
in detail, but you pretty much understand from where I'm coming from in a lot
27:46
of ways, and I've changed my viewpoint in a lot of ways, but from your vantage
27:50
point, hearing this, what do you, I guess as the normal regular Christian,
27:55
when you hear that, is it just kind of fluff?
27:57
They don't really deal with it, or is there something there you think?
28:02
What exactly? What I'm talking about, the distinction, like,
28:06
Jew and Gentile, I guess start there.
28:08
Okay, I mean, okay, at first, it's like, well, yeah, aren't we all the same
28:11
under Christ? Why is it different from each one and the other?
28:14
But then, in a weird, honest way, I'm glad I'm not under it,
28:19
I guess. Is that bad to say? It seems like there's a lot of rules and regulations
28:24
they have to follow. Yeah.
28:27
I'm in the same way, like, where I think it's just...
28:31
It's not necessarily that I look at it as like, I'm glad I'm not under it.
28:36
Because you know me, we're probably a lot different. I'm more of like,
28:38
I like, I want to know what do you want me to do, God? Or what do you want me
28:42
to do in any situation? I don't like gray areas, you know?
28:45
I like to know just whatever it is exactly. I guess that is why in a lot of
28:49
ways I'm very drawn to Roman Catholicism.
28:53
It's more strict, more, and not necessarily strict, but it's more outlined on
28:58
what you're supposed to do.
28:59
Yeah they're called rituals you like you like doing something you like checking off a box seems like,
29:06
yeah and i think i think that's just that everybody's different some people
29:09
like it some people don't and it's not like checking off a box for me it's just
29:13
i want to know what i'm doing is.
29:16
Precisely what i should be doing and i don't like the gray areas i like to have
29:20
the black and white i'm very black and white i guess how i see it but just in
29:25
and even in in judaism And like,
29:27
I, I, why God set up the whole laws and how they were supposed to do all that
29:31
in itself, it was probably to distinguish them from the other nations.
29:35
That was pretty much the main thing.
29:38
And he didn't put these, all these laws on the people of, on the people of Israel
29:42
themselves. And I mean, not on people.
29:46
I didn't mean that he didn't put all these laws on all the nations.
29:48
He specifically put it on the Jewish people.
29:52
But here, I want to just kind of wrap it up with a little bit more of J.D.
29:56
Hall and Tucker Carlson right here. They aren't in the text at all.
30:00
It's not the same religion. So when people say Jesus was a Jew...
30:05
It's like, well, yes, in a sense, he was. He was a physical descendant of David and of Abraham.
30:13
But if you're implying that Jesus was a rabbinic Jew, no, he wasn't.
30:18
That was a completely different religion.
30:21
And most Christians don't grasp that. They think that Jesus was a Jew, like Ben Shapiro.
30:29
Jesus would not have recognized Ben Shapiro's religion. The Apostle Paul would not have recognized it.
30:35
They would have taken a look at it and said, what is this?
30:39
I completely disagree with that. Like just him saying that it's that they would
30:43
not recognize or be familiar with it.
30:46
I think Jesus would feel a lot more at home with Judaism than what we've made
30:51
Christianity in a lot of ways.
30:54
But what do you like? Do you know what I'm saying? Or what do you think about
30:57
that? Just me saying that. What do you think?
30:59
And you want him to feel at home with what we do. So what, you know,
31:02
but he's a Jew and he did Judaism.
31:05
So whatever it's, I mean, I think, I don't know what each one does and I don't
31:09
know why they would not recognize, why Jesus wouldn't recognize it.
31:13
Why would they not, he would not recognize it.
31:15
The Judaism or Christianity? Yes, Judaism.
31:20
Well, that's what I disagree with. I mean, maybe they not, would not be carrying
31:23
out exactly, but I think he, it would be a lot more familiar to him.
31:28
If we were in exile and Jesus was here, he would probably be more like,
31:33
this is normal of going to a synagogue as opposed to going to a church service.
31:40
If you put Jesus in the context of even a Roman Catholic, I've never been to
31:43
a Roman Catholic church service, or maybe even an evangelical church service,
31:46
like a non-denominational, like where we go.
31:49
It would probably feel really odd to him. Like it doesn't matter for him. It's still his people.
31:56
I just see it as in like the context of like the story of Joseph in the book of Genesis.
32:01
His brothers threw him into slavery.
32:06
They sold him into slavery. He goes off and he lives years in Egypt in a Gentile country.
32:12
And he's probably garbed up like an Egyptian.
32:15
He's living like that. But his like, he probably...
32:19
Remembers more of being with the context of his family you know what i mean but what do you think.
32:28
What there's no question i've,
32:33
so about like so like if you put jesus like in i guess it what judaism is compared
32:39
to christianity like in the way that you see it in that context do you do you
32:44
see like start off like do you see the difference between,
32:47
we because we've i think we've been to a synagogue service haven't we i don't
32:51
remember exactly but they like they pull out the the torah the scroll and they
32:56
they read it and it's very it's,
32:59
it's more almost like the the version of a bible study is for christianity christianity
33:04
a lot of times i guess it all depends because some christianity like you just
33:07
go to it's like a rock concert you know and it's singing and dancing and all that kind of stuff.
33:13
But I would just say like, Jesus would probably have been like more like a, this is who he is.
33:22
Like growing up, he would have been like going to synagogue every Sabbath and going to the temple.
33:27
And in that context, he was familiar with those ways.
33:31
It just like, I mean, if we just like in using common natural sense,
33:35
like, like, do you know what I'm talking about? Like it would,
33:37
things would look a lot different compared to then compared to now.
33:41
I just think it, he would just be more, it would be familiar,
33:45
but like, it would still be the, like the people that are not accepting him.
33:49
Like he would just been another regular normal Jew going to a synagogue service today,
33:54
as opposed to in a different way out of the like different context,
33:58
different group of people that seemed kind of out there but who have embraced
34:02
him christian yeah christians.
34:05
So i him for this uh jd hall to say like that this is not the same people the same like they've like,
34:13
created this they're still basing it off of the though where they would say
34:17
the old testament is their their like written authority
34:22
but then they have all these extra laws that they which would have been the
34:25
same laws that jesus would have had in his day but it wasn't like written down
34:30
it was just kind of like spoken and understood
34:33
like god gave them like you have to sacrifice the animal but like they had to
34:38
interpret and make decisions on how to actually do all that you know and that's kind of like where it's,
34:45
the oral torah was given to moses this is where the,
34:48
they they the tradition is that the oral torah was given to moses on the mountain
34:52
not only just what he wrote down but also how to actually do it,
34:56
and then they passed that down along to the generations that followed.
35:01
But here, let's kind of, I want to wrap this up because I know there's a little
35:03
bit more on this that I wanted to touch on.
35:06
It didn't exist. It didn't exist. They call some things the same words,
35:10
but it's a fundamentally different religion.
35:14
So most Americans are not aware of that. You would think that ordained ministers
35:19
would be aware of that. Mike Huckabee is an ordained minister.
35:22
He had a church for years in Arkansas.
35:26
And Tucker, he has some different harsh words for Huckabee and Ted Cruz.
35:30
And I know this is the internet game. This is like a natural podcasting.
35:35
People at each other and just, but if we take a step back, and I've fallen to
35:40
this myself, It's easy to where you're looking at other Christians and you're
35:44
very harsh and critical against them over the airwaves.
35:48
And maybe that is kind of the same way that Jesus would have,
35:52
maybe he would have had have been because if someone says something publicly,
35:55
you got to publicly answer it or you know what I mean?
36:00
But I guess in this, in this context, like, and just kind of like wrapping this up, like.
36:05
In analyzing the difference between the Christianity and the Judaism of that
36:08
day, I just see it as like God gave like the people of Israel,
36:13
those covenant like promises, like if you keep, you're faithfully keeping the
36:18
commandments I give you, I'll keep in the land.
36:20
And there was a period of time that they were thrown out of the land and went into exile.
36:24
And that same thing is happening today that they are thrown out of the land,
36:28
but they're in the diaspora. They're all throughout the world,
36:32
but we're seeing them brought back.
36:34
And it's not to say that they, because they're out of the land that they are
36:38
not faithfully carrying out what God commands them, has commanded them.
36:43
Did you have anything else, Jesse, you want to?
36:47
You're always looking for me to give it to you.
36:50
I guess I'm not great at just asking this question. I'm just seeing if you have
36:54
any commentary on anything we're kind of discussing. It's so outside of my realm.
37:00
But what are your thoughts? What do you think about all this, Jesse? Oh, no.
37:04
And I just see it as that a lot of just Christians are just at each other's
37:07
necks about a lot of these things. That's the thing. I don't.
37:10
Why does anyone care what anyone else thinks?
37:13
Think what you think. Why do we, you know, why do people get so upset about
37:17
it, about what someone else thinks?
37:19
Who cares? How does that affect you?
37:23
So I guess I don't care. Yeah.
37:27
And I think I'm the same way. I necessarily don't care, but I just see that we are so divided.
37:34
I think we don't extend grace to a lot of people.
37:37
We think that everyone, that I have all the truth inside my head, they're wrong.
37:42
And I, and really, to be honest, I feel like I have all the truth inside my
37:46
head, but I I feel like the way that, but I'm completely open to,
37:51
if I'm wrong, I want to know what is right.
37:54
And so it's like, even listening to JD Hall and Tucker Carlson talk about these
37:58
things and even whoever, whoever else,
38:01
if they have something that seems like that is real, it is like it tests the,
38:08
or it stands like any test of truth.
38:10
I want to whatever go towards that. I don't care. I don't like throw pride out
38:15
the, out the window. I don't like, I've like you say to myself,
38:18
I don't care about being right, but I want to know what's right.
38:22
I don't care about being the one that's right.
38:24
I just want to, but I want to, you know what I mean? Like get to whatever it
38:27
is. And I think a lot of Christians do feel this way. And even like JD Hall
38:31
and, and Tucker Carlson talking about this, they probably, they,
38:34
they're very strong in their viewpoints, and, and.
38:38
But I've seen them have conversations like Tucker Carlson with Ted Cruz and with Mike Huckabee.
38:44
I guess it's just whenever we disagree on something, whenever it goes to something
38:49
very fundamental, we think it's a very strong issue.
38:53
Tucker Carlson always points to you can't support Israel because they're doing
38:57
mass genocide. They're doing something very evil over there.
38:59
And I think that that just obscures the conversation and makes it all,
39:04
instead of getting to the heart of the issue, what are we actually disagreeing on?
39:08
What do you even think Zionism is or what we're even talking about?
39:13
Even like, we'll kind of wrap it up on this, the Zionism thing.
39:16
Do you know anything about that?
39:18
And most people don't. And I necessarily, I do, because at its most basic level,
39:23
it's just that we believe that Israel, the Jews should have a place in Israel,
39:29
that they should have a safe place in Israel, you know, their land.
39:33
I don't even, I'm not even like thinking of it like that way.
39:35
I just look at it from the perspective of the Bible.
39:38
God has promised the land to Israel. And it's like, is God's promise only like
39:43
for a certain amount of time and then time's up?
39:46
I don't see it as that. I see it as if God makes a promise that he doesn't renege
39:50
on it. He doesn't like change his mind or something come along and he has another
39:55
shiny object. I'm just going to go with this way.
39:57
I see it as he, it's the, if he makes a promise or a covenant with something, it's everlasting.
40:03
Specifically, if he says it's everlasting.
40:05
You know what i mean all right would you have anything else jesse,
40:09
no okay all right jesse well thank you for joining uh today and uh sorry i'm
40:15
sure it's very i interesting i did not set you up in a lot of ways i probably
40:20
should have so what do you mean i don't know what do you mean.
40:25
I have no opinions on this topic. But you always want me to give you an exact
40:32
question. I think I... Since we're still going, I don't care.
40:38
I don't care. So what would you observe in me talking about this?
40:43
What would be a good way to ask you a question, to say something like,
40:47
about this particular issue, are you yay or nay about this? I didn't know well
40:53
enough to even... You're an example.
40:57
I think the issue is on my end. I'm going to figure it out. It was interesting
41:01
because I was asking you a question. I was learning about certain things.
41:05
I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
41:07
All right. We'll leave it at that. All right, everyone. I hope you all have
41:10
a great rest of your day, and we'll see you on the next one.