Latest / Paging America / Michigan’s Plan to Stop Corporate Money in Politics

Transcript

Michigan’s Plan to Stop Corporate Money in Politics · Paging America

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Paging America,
• 0:16
  where we explore the power of profit and politics shaping
• 0:18
  American health care and
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: what you can do about it.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Miles Baker, along with Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Rob Davidson.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Dr. Davidson, how are you today?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing okay, Miles.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty good.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty good.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have a lot in the news.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: And for folks who missed us last week, I apologize.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: I came down with a little illness.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was not able to make it to the show.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we apologize for that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: But we got a great show for you today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be packed with some of the news.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get into the health care news,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Rob,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: we've had a very strange week with the president of the United States.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it sort of feels strange to avoid it and get right into health care.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: I...
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: find myself very troubled with the civilization destruction talk,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: with the saber-rattling ambiguity,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: kind of alluding to nuclear weapons,
• 1:08
  and then having to come back and be explicit that he wasn't
• 1:09
  talking about that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it just strikes me that we might not have a good president.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is, wow.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's a hot take.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Write that one down.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:24
  we certainly on this podcast talk about health care and
• 1:26
  politics and how they
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: interact and all that.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: But Jesus,
• 1:29
  you can't live in this world without kind of feeling the
• 1:32
  impacts of insane lunatic
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: tweets or whatever they are,
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: posts or whatever they are.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Bleats.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: From this present bleats.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what they are?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: From this president, you know, threatening to wipe out a civilization.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does that mean?
• 1:48
  No one can no one from the administration officially can
• 1:51
  confirm anything about
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: what that meant or could mean or might mean.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:55
  But a lot of people were taking that to mean like a not zero
• 1:59
  percent chance of like
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: nuclear war,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: complete destruction of like it's insane.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I remember as a kid, you might be a little younger than me.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I remember as a kid in the Cold War 80s, like.
• 2:11
  sitting up at night worrying about nuclear war right just
• 2:14
  because like the arms
• 2:15
  right that was all in the news you know with reagan and yeah
• 2:17
  and and then gorbachev
• 2:19
  and reagan that all happened and i i haven't had those staying
• 2:22
  up at night kind of
• 2:23
  thinking moments of nuclear war but jesus like are we back in
• 2:28
  this place where a
• 2:28
  completely crazy person could initiate something like that i
• 2:33
  don't know how are you
• 2:34
  doing doing all that you're a new dad i mean that you gotta
• 2:36
  have different feelings
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: right i have a um
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: I never stopped worrying about nuclear war because I lived in Washington,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: D.C.
• 2:45
  for a while and I would play with a an online tool that would
• 2:50
  show how to get out
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: of the city if various things were like bombed.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I did that for Chicago for the first time since I've lived here.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, how do I get out of the city?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Not not a lot of great paths out of the city, honestly.
• 3:03
  Anyway,
• 3:04
  I think it's just it's the it's so reckless to have someone
• 3:07
  with their that has the
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: U.S. military at their disposal using not imprecise language.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's not usually just reckless, angry id in tweet form.
• 3:22
  Like it is it's not it is not good for your sleep and it is not
• 3:28
  good for the country.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, listen, Trump.
• 3:33
  Trump has not been our cup of tea since he came down the golden
• 3:35
  escalator back in 2015.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: We can be honest about that.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:39
  This guy's his the way he interacts with with us,
• 3:44
  with with people who he doesn't agree with.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: That the name calling.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: the crude language, the policy preferences, all of that.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's something seriously wrong.
• 3:55
  I mean,
• 3:55
  we can start talking on a medical level,
• 3:58
  mental,
• 3:58
  medical level,
• 3:59
  something wrong.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've always tried to like, we're not going to diagnose things.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've always done that myself.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's something seriously wrong with this guy.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's dementia,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: psychosis,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: combinations of all the above,
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: this is not healthy,
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: normal behavior.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's crazy to me that so many people within...
• 4:20
  the Republican Party who have the ability to do something about
• 4:24
  it are just sort of
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: going along,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: bending the knee.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Mike Johnson talking to you, you know.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Insane.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Insane.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yikes.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: They got it, right?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: We got out of it.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you want to call it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like the taco talk.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I won't do it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, I'm glad.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad the civilization wasn't annihilated in,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: at least for now,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: a couple weeks of negotiations,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have some good news.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Today is our 50th episode, Rob.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: We've been doing Paging America 50 episodes in a row.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's very exciting to me.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't necessarily sure we were going to make it to 50 episodes,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: but I want to thank everyone who listens.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Thank all of our subscribers on Substack.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: We want to thank the folks who are finding us on Apple Music and Spotify.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun to do 50.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Here's 50 more after today.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to thank Chris Savage, who's our producer, who's off-campus.
• 5:17
  see him on our screen and uh like just like every week is kind
• 5:21
  of getting getting
• 5:22
  the the lineup and we are back and forth and all of us
• 5:25
  collaborating but like a
• 5:27
  huge part of the show behind the scenes so i want to thank him
• 5:29
  as well but yeah
• 5:30
  thank everyone who's stuck with us um and spread the word you
• 5:33
  know we want to keep
• 5:34
  growing as much as we can and keep getting this information out
• 5:37
  to y'all okay
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have a big show today for the 50th episode.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: On the back half,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: we're going to be talking to Sean McBearty,
• 5:44
  who's leading the Michiganders for Money on Apologics campaign
• 5:48
  in the state of
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan,
• 5:49
  which is this novel way to try to confront political corruption
• 5:52
  and political
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: spending in the state that is not affected by Citizens United.
• 5:58
  It's an incredibly exciting campaign that has the potential to
• 6:01
  really remake
• 6:03
  the political rules governing of the state on a state that's
• 6:07
  been on a path to reform.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: They've dealt with expanding voting rights.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: They've dealt with nonpartisan gerrymandering.
• 6:14
  But there's this last piece of political corruption and
• 6:16
  political spending that
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: hasn't been put into place.
• 6:18
  And the Michiganders for Money on a Politics campaign is taking
• 6:22
  a big step towards
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: trying to address that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's some things that you can address at the state level.
• 6:26
  But this would sort of clean up those things that you can
• 6:28
  address at the state level.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll be getting a campaign update from him on the back half.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: But why don't we get right into the health care news?
• 6:35
  So,
• 6:35
  Rob,
• 6:36
  Republicans are considering cutting health care to pay for the
• 6:39
  Iran war.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Axios broke the news this week.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Some Republicans think there's enough waste,
• 6:43
  fraud and abuse left in the health care system to pay for
• 6:46
  Trump's war in Iran.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's not true.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is that's a lie.
• 6:53
  But Republicans are considering reductions in federal health
• 6:55
  spending to pay for a
• 6:56
  budget bill containing as much as 200 billion to fund the Iran
• 7:00
  war and immigrant
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: enforcement,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: immigration enforcement regulations.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Iran and immigration enforcement.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's other items we're looking at right now,
• 7:06
  especially in the areas of fraud and waste and abuse that we're
• 7:09
  working through
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: with our members,
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: House Majority Leader Steve Scalise told Axios.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Steve Scalise,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Axios did not report this,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm just going to assume,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: accidentally picked up the talking points memo from March of last year.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: You got more.
• 7:26
  House Budget Committee Chairman Jody Arrington out of Texas is
• 7:30
  reviving an idea
• 7:31
  that was considered last year to fund Affordable Care Act
• 7:34
  payments known as
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: cost-sharing reductions.
• 7:36
  The Congressional Budget Office previously found that the move
• 7:38
  would lower overall
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: benchmark ACA premiums by 11%,
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: but result in 300,000 more uninsured people.
• 7:45
  So we're looking at less people on insurance,
• 7:49
  less coverage,
• 7:50
  with an explicit
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: explicitly to pay for an extremely unpopular war.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, and this is the rub, right?
• 8:00
  When you're dropping millions and billions of dollars of bombs
• 8:04
  indiscriminately in
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: places,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: including on School for Girls,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: You got to pay for it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: they they're really good at driving up deficits,
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: but they're always,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: they're trying to be fiscally responsible,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: apparently,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: and then doing it on the backs of on the backs of people's health care.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: The last go around.
• 8:21
  So the last go around,
• 8:22
  it was cutting a trillion from Medicaid for tax cuts for
• 8:25
  billionaires.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: That was their top priority.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then number two is waging waging wars that nobody wants.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just wonder,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: and this kind of goes in parallel to the kind of bombings in Iran,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: like the last time they bombed Iran,
• 8:38
  they said they got rid of their nuclear program and getting rid
• 8:41
  of their nuclear
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: program was one of the justifications,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: one of many of this go around.
• 8:46
  And it sounds like they're kind of doing the same thing with
• 8:49
  health care.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like they got rid of waste,
• 8:51
  fraud and abuse in the last time they did their reconciliation
• 8:54
  and cut health care
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: from millions of people.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: But they didn't cut all of it like they save some for a second go.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like it's like.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus, guys, let's be efficient.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Just do it all the first time.
• 9:04
  If you're really that concerned about waste,
• 9:06
  rotten abuse,
• 9:06
  how come you left it on the table?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's all bullshit.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: The waste,
• 9:10
  rotten abuse talking point seemed to be the thing they have
• 9:13
  when the policy doesn't
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: make sense.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: it's like,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: it's getting,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: I will say this,
• 9:17
  I think it felt like it had some power and it had some legs
• 9:21
  when they first started
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: rolling it out back at the beginning of the Trump administration.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was really worrying that they were going to be like,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: oh man,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: are they going to be able to steamroll,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: steamroll us with like policy lies and
• 9:30
  using the waste fraud and abuse like red herring over and over
• 9:33
  and over again.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it lands with this at all.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think anyone believes that.
• 9:38
  This feels like an old messaging retread,
• 9:41
  and I think they're going to get...
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think people are going to buy it.
• 9:44
  So a new Navigator poll has that this is basically like a death
• 9:49
  pack for the Republicans.
• 9:52
  Over 59% of people believe the government is spending too much
• 9:55
  money on foreign conflicts.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Similar number, 58% believe that we spend too little on health care.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you were to go in a lab
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: and design a policy to be maximally unpopular,
• 10:06
  I think you might come up with pay for the Iran war by cutting
• 10:11
  people's health
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: care.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: if you just had,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: a hermetically sealed science environment,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 10:16
  how do we make a bill that'll piss off the most people across
• 10:20
  the political
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: spectrum,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: you might come up with this.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean...
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where they go with this.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's crazy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I guess, you know, they're not trying to win elections.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're not thinking of that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's crazy.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's April of the midterm.
• 10:38
  They just feel like they got it in the bag for some other by
• 10:41
  some other means.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's a little scary.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's a little scary.
• 10:45
  Yeah,
• 10:45
  I mean,
• 10:46
  you know,
• 10:46
  hopefully public has woken up to this and enough public
• 10:49
  pressure.
• 10:50
  It just seems like they're sort of somehow become numb to any
• 10:54
  degree of public
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: pressure and just charging ahead with,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: whatever Mike Johnson and Donald Trump are figuring out in the back room.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess we'll see.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: there's been,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: there's certainly been rifts,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: not just in the MAGA coalition,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: but within sort of between the two houses,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: between the House and the Senate over the DHS funding and the shutdown.
• 11:16
  And so you just wonder,
• 11:18
  I mean,
• 11:18
  you know,
• 11:19
  who is actually on board with this?
• 11:21
  You hear a lot of speaking out of the House,
• 11:23
  but,
• 11:23
  you know,
• 11:23
  this is going to need 50 people.
• 11:25
  50 Republican senators to go along with it in reconciliation to
• 11:28
  get this done.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if they if they even have those votes.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I guess we'll see.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: OK. All right.
• 11:36
  We and so Donald Trump weighed in and I and kind of with the
• 11:40
  word salad as he does.
• 11:41
  But it seemed to allude that maybe he'd like to use Medicare to
• 11:45
  pay for the Iran more.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Let's roll that tape.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because the United States can't take care of daycare.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That has to be up to a state.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: We can't take care of daycare.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're a big country.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have 50 states.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: We have all these other people.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're fighting wars.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: We can't take care of daycare.
• 12:02
  You got to let a state take care of daycare and they should pay
• 12:04
  for it too.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: They should pay.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: They have to raise their taxes, but they should pay for it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we could lower our taxes a little bit to them to make up.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not possible for us to take care of daycare,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Medicaid,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Medicare,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: all these individual things.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: They can do it on a state basis.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do it on a federal.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have to take care of one thing, military protection.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 12:28
  it's always tricky to pin the mercurial president down because
• 12:33
  he speaks in
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: unorthodox English.
• 12:36
  But that strikes me that that's going to be in every ad made
• 12:42
  this summer that we
• 12:43
  might be we might be going into Medicare coffers to pay for to
• 12:48
  pay for adventurism
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: in the Middle East.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: that little that little speech,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: that whole little event was supposedly something that was it was closed.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't know.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that isn't a national priority.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think it should be.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: But then he just goes off into, well, because we got to pay for wars.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then he just sort of as an aside.
• 13:22
  And this to me is telling because,
• 13:24
  you know,
• 13:24
  it's just sitting there in his brain.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: He's not supposed to say it, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Someone had said,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: don't talk about this,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: but he just can't help himself because it's there,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 13:33
  It's right on the tip of his brain and it just came blurting
• 13:35
  out in Medicare and
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Medicaid,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: States will have to raise their taxes, I guess, because they...
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: We can't do all this stuff.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: We've got to pay for bombs.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 13:44
  I think this tells us that's one way he is thinking about how
• 13:49
  do we pay for these
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: things?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: How do we pay for bombs?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: How do we pay for his wars?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Medicare, Medicaid, on the block.
• 13:55
  I think people should take notice and not let these people be
• 13:58
  in charge anymore,
• 13:59
  right?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's my take on it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: His latest budget has an extraordinary increase in the military budget,
• 14:04
  and there's not really a path to get there unless he's going to
• 14:06
  dramatically raise
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: taxes or he's going to go after one of the other big pots of money,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: which is Medicare.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Medicare is the other big pot of money besides defense spending.
• 14:14
  Um,
• 14:14
  people say like a lot of the,
• 14:15
  you know,
• 14:16
  anyway,
• 14:17
  um,
• 14:18
  uh,
• 14:19
  hang on to your Medicare folks.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: we know Donald Trump's coming for it in order to,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: in order to pay for the military boost.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, um,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: In contrast, Rob, so we're getting data back.
• 14:31
  The election is coming into focus as we enter into April,
• 14:34
  Q2 of the midterms.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: We start to understand what the dynamic is starting to look like.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's still really early.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Want to preface that for everybody?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's still early in the election cycle,
• 14:45
  but new polling from Gallup shows that health care is the top
• 14:47
  issue for voters for
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: the first time since 2020.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: And in 2020...
• 14:54
  largely that had to do with uh it was like health care plus
• 14:57
  covid as like a
• 14:58
  combination issue uh that that uh that was this but this we
• 15:03
  don't have an active
• 15:03
  pandemic right now at least not that i know of uh but we do
• 15:07
  have um a crisis
• 15:09
  completely created by the republican party and no other party
• 15:12
  now that's not true
• 15:13
  there's a bigger crisis in health care but the insurance crisis
• 15:15
  that is actively
• 15:16
  happening and the price rise is happening with the republicans
• 15:19
  the health care
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: crisis is a
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Bigger crisis.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway,
• 15:21
  Americans are more concerned about the availability and cost of
• 15:24
  health care than
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: any other domestic issue,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: with it reclaiming the top spot for the first time since 2020,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: according to a new Gallup poll.
• 15:30
  The poll released last week found that 61% of 1,000 adults
• 15:33
  surveyed said they were
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: worried a great deal about accessing and affording health care,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: while 23% expressed a fair amount.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: 84% of people concerned about paying for health care.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: is an extraordinary number.
• 15:47
  And Democrats are overwhelmingly trusted on this issue compared
• 15:50
  to Republicans.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Republicans are just not trusted on health care because of their lifelong
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: dedication to taking it away from people.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Robin?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think this is going to end up being the health care election?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, we say that all the time.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And to some extent, like 18 was a lot of it was about health care.
• 16:07
  I think the reason is and I've seen this sort of clinically at
• 16:10
  the bedside for for
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: two decades or more.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's true.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Health care cuts at people in a couple of different ways.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's certainly an economic issue.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:19
  So as gas prices are over four dollars a gallon and food prices
• 16:22
  going up and,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: all this self-induced pain from Trump and tariffs and the war.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: is affecting people's pocketbooks, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: The healthcare piece affects their pocketbooks as well.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like prices going up, everything costs too much.
• 16:35
  But it's also a deeply personal issue beyond like getting a
• 16:40
  gallon of gas.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: That is purely dollars and cents, like shit.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is expensive.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't afford it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: What do I cut on my budget?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: But it's deeply personal because if not an individual,
• 16:49
  they have a family member or a neighbor or coworker or somebody
• 16:53
  who has been
• 16:53
  impacted by denial of claims by insurance companies that are
• 16:57
  raking in billions of
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: dollars, right?
• 16:59
  By losing insurance and having to do GoFundMes to pay for a
• 17:03
  surgery or cancer treatment.
• 17:05
  So it's like that double whammy of sort of people viewing it as
• 17:10
  an economic
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: pocketbook,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: how do I fit it in my budget,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: but also like gut-wrenching.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the stories that come out of it are gut-wrenching, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And really move people in ways that it seems like sort of other
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: big economic pieces of their lives maybe don't.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've felt that for a long time,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: people at the bedside talking when they can't afford this,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: can't afford that,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: can't go get a test,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: didn't get some test they were supposed to get.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And now they're facing the outcomes of,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: oops,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: now you have colon cancer that's spread when you could have found it,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: if you had had this test or procedure.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's part of why
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just the more they do to to take away people's health care,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: to make it more expensive,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: the more that comes into stark relief.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: The just a little bit more in the Gallup poll,
• 17:57
  because it's interesting that this is the 61 plus 23 percent is
• 18:01
  compared to the 51
• 18:02
  percent of respondents who said they were concerned a great
• 18:05
  deal about the economy
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: and 50 percent who said the same about inflation.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: The economy and inflation have dominated the
• 18:11
  the political discourse for years now like too many years it's
• 18:14
  the economy stupid
• 18:15
  right yeah but it's been like and specifically like the cost of
• 18:18
  goods going up and
• 18:19
  people like pinpointing groceries and there was the eggs
• 18:22
  there's like people
• 18:23
  endlessly talked about eggs after the after the crazy man was
• 18:27
  elected president but
• 18:30
  but the but the but this is a this is a bit of a change and you
• 18:33
  can't like if the
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: republicans had done nothing
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: They had not passed a bill.
• 18:37
  They just sat in their chairs and talked or did insider stock
• 18:41
  trading but took no action.
• 18:43
  Like if they just did the grift and they didn't pass the health
• 18:46
  care attack,
• 18:48
  I can't imagine that this would be that the Democrats number
• 18:51
  one tippy top issue
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: would be the number one issue of the election.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: But they did.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's it was total self-sabotage.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Republican Party, Donald Trump is leading you off a cliff like lemmings.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: You losers.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: Stop it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: as much as I think I was,
• 19:08
  you were many people were frustrated by the eight or ten or
• 19:11
  number Democrats who
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: caved on the ACA subsidies.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, there was an entire shutdown about health care.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And Democrats eventually kind of came to the table.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Enough of them did.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Dick Durbin did say.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: it at the time, we have elevated this to a huge issue nationally.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I never thought they had a path to actually get any ACA subsidies.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like a political skirmish, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And if you just look at it as a political skirmish, it was a huge win.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we talk trash about the Democratic Party all the time.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they're spineless.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they're do-nothings.
• 19:44
  That was an instance in which they really sharpened their
• 19:47
  political weapons and got to work.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's still bearing fruit.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are entering Q2.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: We're in April.
• 19:53
  And we're looking at the number one issue being the very thing
• 19:57
  that they were
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: trying to highlight that the Republicans were doing.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: despite Trump trying to deflect with Trump Rx and,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: starting wars and all this shit,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: it's still huge and top on people's minds.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 20:09
  Yeah,
• 20:09
  it seems like it's seven months to go,
• 20:10
  but I don't see this going away.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: On to reproductive rights.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: The use of abortion pills in states with abortion bans is up.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so the attacks on abortion pills are up.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: In a new study from the Guttmacher Institute,
• 20:26
  it shows that the number of people in states with abortion bans
• 20:29
  who traveled to
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: another state to get an abortion fell.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: In 2025 here, I'm in I live in Illinois.
• 20:35
  Illinois is a state that people travel to the the number who
• 20:39
  use telehealth and
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: then were then prescribed abortion pills is up.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: So meanwhile,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: in Reuters,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: they report that the U.S.
• 20:47
  Senate Republicans are launching a probe of abortion pill
• 20:50
  makers and escalating the
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: pressure on the FDA.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: U.S.
• 20:53
  Senate Republican launched an investigation into abortion pill
• 20:55
  manufacturers on
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wednesday and called on the U.S.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Food and Drug Administration to crack down on online sales of the drug
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Mifeprestone.
• 21:02
  the latest escalation in a years-long political battle over
• 21:05
  access to medication abortion.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Senators seek detailed compliance records from all three FDA-approved
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: manufacturers,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: that is Danco Laboratories,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: GenBioPro,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: and Aveda Solutions,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: including production sites,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: prescriber certifications,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: pharmacy audits,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: adverse events reports,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: etc.,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: etc.,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: etc.,
• 21:23
  So Danco Laboratories declined to comment and Jen Biopro said
• 21:26
  it looked forward to
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: educating lawmakers about medication abortion.
• 21:29
  We've talked on this show,
• 21:30
  medication abortion,
• 21:31
  extremely effective,
• 21:31
  extremely safe.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: This is bad.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is like,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: this is them knowing that when they do legislatively,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: when they try to pursue their anti-reproductive rights agenda,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: they receive an extraordinary political penalty.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: And this is,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: Basically throwing the baby out with the bathwater,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: saying,
• 21:55
  we're going to take the credibility FDA and flush that whole
• 21:58
  thing down the toilet
• 21:59
  to pursue this narrow ideological agenda of going after
• 22:03
  reproductive rights.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to just take the Food and Drug Administration and say,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: we don't care if your food's safe.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: We don't care if your drug's safe.
• 22:09
  We're going to politicize this entity because we don't want
• 22:14
  people to use safe and
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: effective medication abortion.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: It is...
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: it's just further proof that when Dobbs happened and they said,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: leave it to the states,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: leave it to the states,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: they were totally full of shit.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what they wanted, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, roughly are from medication abortion.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: 30 percent of abortions are through telehealth through.
• 22:41
  I just got that staff from someone I was talking to who is like
• 22:43
  working on shield
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: laws and telehealth access in states.
• 22:47
  I think there are only shield laws in eight states,
• 22:49
  like effective shield laws in eight states.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: We need more of that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think this is a toxic issue for them.
• 22:57
  It makes it harder to talk about it when they're doing it in
• 22:59
  the administrative way,
• 23:01
  right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Through the FDA.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's why they're doing it that way.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's why they're doing it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:06
  Because they've realized,
• 23:06
  like you said,
• 23:07
  if they try to do it legislatively,
• 23:08
  they get screwed.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: If they leave it to the voters in places like Missouri,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: overwhelmingly,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: these places are saying yes.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Even in Florida,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: they set the ridiculous 60% threshold,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: but 57% of people came out and said,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: yes,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: we want the right to have an abortion.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 23:24
  I think we have to continue to beat the drum and highlight what
• 23:28
  the hell they're
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: doing and how that impacts people's lives.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's the project.
• 23:35
  If you care about reproductive rights,
• 23:36
  you should really care about this.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't particularly care about reproductive rights,
• 23:40
  but you also care about your food being safe and your other
• 23:44
  drugs being safe and,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: having some reasonable...
• 23:49
  administrative entity in the government not be completely
• 23:52
  susceptible to corporate
• 23:54
  whims or political whims or religious zealot whims that it has
• 23:57
  some foundational
• 24:00
  truth in which it operates for all of these different safety
• 24:03
  functions you should
• 24:05
  not want them to politicize the fda to pursue a zealous
• 24:10
  anti-reproductive rights
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: agenda it is bad for uh
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Reproductive rights, it is bad for all sorts of other stuff, too.
• 24:18
  The downstream consequences of undermining the institution is
• 24:21
  significant.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Trump's Medicaid chickens are coming home to roost.
• 24:28
  A new analysis by Public Citizen shows that the fallout from
• 24:31
  Trump's tax giveaway
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: bill is starting to hit.
• 24:33
  More than 400 hospitals across the United States are at high
• 24:36
  risk of closing or
• 24:37
  cutting services because of the Medicaid cuts in President
• 24:39
  Donald Trump's big,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: beautiful bill.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: According to an analysis from the watchdog group Public Citizen,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Medicaid cuts come in phases with more significant changes including work
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: requirements in 27 and limits on how states raise funds in 28.
• 24:53
  So it's like sort of like degradation of the hospital system
• 24:59
  over a three-year time horizon.
• 25:01
  We're seeing hospitals that are already under severe financial
• 25:03
  strain having to
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: make decisions on how to stay financially solvent,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: said Eileen O'Grady,
• 25:07
  a researcher at Public Citizen's Congress Watch Division and
• 25:10
  reports author.
• 25:11
  that has pretty clear implications for people who live in that
• 25:14
  community it also
• 25:15
  has ripple effects on the hospitals in those communities
• 25:18
  millions of americans are
• 25:19
  poised to lose their health insurance thanks to medicaid work
• 25:21
  requirements
• 25:21
  provisions in the bill a new study shows that between 4.9 and
• 25:24
  10.1 million people
• 25:26
  will lose medicaid coverage so this is this this train wreck
• 25:29
  continues to crash it
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: is a long train it's going to be crashing for a long time uh i'm i'm i'm
• 25:36
  Obviously,
• 25:36
  this back to our point about it being health care being the top
• 25:39
  issue.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: This must be contributing to it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what people have to understand is these 400 hospitals,
• 25:46
  they're not just saying we we could close as someone who has
• 25:49
  practiced in a rural
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: hospital for 25,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: almost 25 years.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't just like the hospital being there.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's the services that hospital provides that are at risk.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So currently,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: if you live within,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: 30 minutes of your rural hospital,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: you can get probably and a lot of them get mammograms there.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:05
  You can see a specialist there who comes from the big city
• 26:08
  maybe three times a week.
• 26:09
  And so follow up if you had a heart attack and you had a heart
• 26:11
  cath down in the big,
• 26:13
  big turtle.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can get follow-up with that specialist there.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can get your colonoscopy in these.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the kinds of things, right?
• 26:22
  X-ray services,
• 26:22
  lab services that we're going to see going away,
• 26:26
  birthing centers.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, almost 50%, at least 42, 43% of all
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: deliveries in this country are funded by Medicaid, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if a lot of people are losing Medicaid,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: you're going to see birth centers,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: closing up,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: so now pregnant women having to travel an hour,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: To, to have their babies.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, these are realities people are seeing.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's tough, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: They cravenly had this all genuinely happen after the midterms, right?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't a mistake.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't just by chance.
• 26:56
  That was built into the bill because they knew how fucking
• 26:59
  unpopular this stuff is.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's really important people need.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: to remind people this is coming.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think that... Why I think that was...
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think they were thinking they were being clever.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't have insight.
• 27:10
  I wasn't sitting around the table at Heritage when they came up
• 27:13
  with these dumb bills.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I...
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think I just don't understand,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: if they're going to have cuts,
• 27:21
  the problems in those hospitals are so obviously going to
• 27:23
  happen before the cuts
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: take effect because the people who have to actually go do stuff,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: like run a hospital,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: do a complicated thing,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: are going to price that in early.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, I don't know.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like that was,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: someone who thought they were being clever,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: but,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: it wasn't actually that clever.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I...
• 27:43
  Yeah,
• 27:43
  I don't want to try to be in the heads of those folks in those
• 27:46
  rooms making these things.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's a lot of brainpower wasted.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 27:52
  let's leave the minds of the geniuses over at Heritage and walk
• 27:57
  right into the
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: mouth of madness.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is hitting the road and the airways.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: One episode.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not one episode without this guy.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, we do it every time.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Robert F.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Kennedy is hitting the road and the airways for the midterms,
• 28:11
  which means someone at Paging America is going to have to
• 28:13
  listen to his podcast.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: What a bummer.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to anyone who that is.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's not me.
• 28:20
  Maha voters are not especially happy with Kennedy and the Trump
• 28:23
  administration at the moment.
• 28:24
  Politico reports that they aren't all that sure which party
• 28:28
  represents their views best.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: This may be because,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: as the article points out,
• 28:31
  there are still widespread misconceptions about what Maha is
• 28:34
  and what it does.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: even among people who self-identify with the movement,
• 28:38
  which what's abundantly clear is that they aren't happy with
• 28:42
  the Republicans'
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: anti-regulatory approach to things.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Quote,
• 28:46
  we're not even sure we have a path forward in this
• 28:48
  administration when it comes to
• 28:50
  pesticides because it's very clear that they are entirely owned
• 28:53
  by Bayer and the
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: chemical companies,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: said Kelly Ryerson,
• 28:56
  a Maha influencer who goes by the moniker glyphosate girl
• 29:01
  online and has publicly
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: backed Kennedy.
• 29:04
  For those who listen to the show often,
• 29:06
  they know that I mispronounce science words.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 29:11
  I think an entire bloopers reel of Miles Baker talking in
• 29:15
  science-speak is needed.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Someone spelled it out in my notes here like I am just the dumbest.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's glyphosate, girl.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you to the person who did that in the notes.
• 29:30
  In response,
• 29:30
  RFK Jr.
• 29:31
  is being sent out to win back the Maha vote via Politico.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Health and Human Service Secretary Robert F.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Kennedy Jr.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: is ramping up his midterm travel to provide his Maha agenda.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: On vaccines, the public's not there yet, said Kennedy.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Real quick.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that the public's not there.
• 30:17
  It's that the public thinks this is stupid and hates it and
• 30:19
  they understand that
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: it's dangerous and that it endangers their children.
• 30:23
  And he is going to go out and talk about food dyes and us as
• 30:27
  health advocates need
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: to get out there and communicate.
• 30:31
  This political project that the HHS secretary is engaging in
• 30:36
  has nothing to do with food dyes.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: They're not actually doing anything about food dyes.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: They're coming for your vaccines.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they're going to make us a sicker country because of it.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this is purely damage control, right?
• 30:47
  Because the pollster that you always talk about who is in the
• 30:49
  ears of the Republicans.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Evil, evil Tony Fabrizio.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Has told them this is a losing issue.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Stop doing this.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Stop talking about it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's finally RFK Jr. has gotten the memo.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this is just purely damage control.
• 31:01
  The Maha coalition,
• 31:03
  along with a lot of the other coalitions that built this.
• 31:06
  Trump's win,
• 31:07
  Trump's victory in MAGA is kind of falling apart and they're
• 31:10
  losing them.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: And they're losing the Maha folks, too.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: The pesticide stuff.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: There's a Venn diagram of people who are anti-war who are also Maha,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: who are like crunchy,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: who can't love the Iran thing.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like the Maha coalition is breaking apart.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And like we've said on this podcast over and over,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: what they're using HHS for,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: its number one function is coalition management.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: It is not science.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's not policy.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's not anything.
• 31:36
  HHS is at the very top of it is a political project for
• 31:41
  coalition management.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the coalition is breaking down.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so this guy is going to go
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: put a circus out in the battleground states.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think it's going to work, man.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's going to be a drag by the time he's done with that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And for those of us who have to do communicating,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: it's our job to make sure that that ends up being the outcome.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Chris,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: our producer behind the scenes,
• 32:02
  waving his hand when we said somebody's going to have to listen
• 32:05
  to these podcasts.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for volunteering.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Duly noted.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Duly noted.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: We'll listen to him together, Chris.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to listen to him too.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll see what bad he should do.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: He said on his podcast.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, what a, what a sad state of affairs we're in.
• 32:21
  We're pretty much like whether,
• 32:23
  whatever the question is,
• 32:24
  the answer is now podcast.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: How many times is he going to say smash that subscribe button?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is this about the graph?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Did we do try it?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was that, was that vaguely a Bobby Kennedy?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I wasn't.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you weren't doing it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: In, um,
• 32:46
  All right,
• 32:47
  let's let's move on to just one more thing about Bobby Kennedy.
• 32:51
  More serious note,
• 32:52
  RFK Jr.'s vaccine committee is being reformed and not in a good
• 32:55
  way.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: The charter for the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: commonly known as ASIP,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: expired last week,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: but the one being proposed will allow RFK Jr.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: wide latitude on who will be on it going forward.
• 33:06
  The OG Charter said ACIP members shall be selected from
• 33:09
  authorities who are
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: knowledgeable in the fields of immunization practices and public health,
• 33:13
  have expertise in the use of vaccines and other immunobiologic
• 33:18
  agents in clinical
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: practice or preventative medicine,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: and have expertise with clinical or laboratory vaccine research,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: or have expertise in assessment of vaccine efficacy and safety.
• 33:27
  The proposed new charter published in the Federal Register on
• 33:30
  Monday says only that
• 33:31
  aspects that are considered at the time of candidate screening
• 33:34
  and review will now
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: involve geographical balance and a balance of specialty areas.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we're moving from vaccine expertise to geographic balance.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 33:48
  one of the arguments of Judge Murphy in the case where he
• 33:51
  slapped back against
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: their,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: changing the vaccine schedule was that these people didn't fulfill,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: by the law,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: fulfill the charter of the thing.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: So he's like, all right, fuck it.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just change the charter.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just change the criteria.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: or lawsuits, right, challenging these changes, I would assume.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: So stay tuned.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I would assume that they would be successful on legal grounds.
• 34:27
  Just having this be a balance of geography and specialties when
• 34:30
  we're specifically
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: talking about immunization practices seems bonkers,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: but it seems like that's what he's trying to do.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: So bad news,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: bad news at ASAP,
• 34:40
  although we know we know that that is all part of the coalition
• 34:43
  management project.
• 34:44
  So it's going to take it's going to take the government
• 34:47
  changing for us to to be
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: able to rely on the federal government for vaccine information.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: Vaccine science.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't we, Rob, I think that kind of wraps it up for the day.
• 34:58
  We have this great interview with Sean to lay out what's going
• 35:02
  on with the
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Michiganders for Money Out of Politics ballot initiative.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: So why don't we throw to that interview right now?
• 35:07
  So we're going to head over to our conversation with the
• 35:10
  Michiganders for Money Out
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: of Politics campaign.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, everyone.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Paging America.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: Today we are joined by Sean McBriarty.
• 35:21
  Sean is the Michigan Director for Clean Water Action and the
• 35:24
  Vice Chair of the
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Michiganders for Money Out of Politics Ballot Committee.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: He's an organizer and activist in Michigan for the last 15 years.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're delighted to have Sean on because recently...
• 35:34
  The Committee to Protect Healthcare endorsed the Michiganders
• 35:37
  for Money Out of
• 35:37
  Politics ballot committee in the state of Michigan as a really
• 35:40
  innovative way to
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: get at some much-needed campaign finance reforms,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: anti-corruption measures in the state.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan is rated...
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: incredibly corrupt state,
• 35:52
  relatively much more like one of the southern states as opposed
• 35:55
  to one of the blue
• 35:57
  wall states or upper Midwest states in terms of its government
• 35:59
  integrity by a slew
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: of different nonprofits.
• 36:02
  And Sean is working on a big,
• 36:04
  big project to start taking a bite out of that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: Sean, welcome to Paging America.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Miles, thanks so much for having me.
• 36:12
  And we're super excited to be working with Committee to Protect
• 36:15
  Healthcare on this issue.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Such a great organization,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: working with people's doctors and actual care providers and,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:23
  going after some of these insurance companies that we're going
• 36:25
  to be able to
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: eliminate from buying our political system.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's great.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really familiar with the ballot question committee now,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: but for our audience who are maybe not,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: and there's going to be folks who are listening from Michigan,
• 36:37
  but then there are people who are probably eyeing solves in
• 36:40
  their other state.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: And just kind of at a base level,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: what is Michiganders for Money Out of Politics trying to solve?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 36:48
  so the problem that we have with financial corruption in
• 36:51
  government in Michigan is
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: something that's happening on both sides of the aisle.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right now,
• 36:57
  we have a former speaker serving a prison sentence for charges
• 37:00
  related to financial
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: corruption.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: another former speaker on trial for political corruption.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is a systemic problem.
• 37:08
  And so what our ballot initiative does is that it says if
• 37:13
  you're a company who is
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: making huge profits because of your
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: connections to our government,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: so that's regulated utilities like DTE and Consumers Energy,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: and that's government contractors with large contracts,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: which includes most health insurers,
• 37:29
  you can no longer make contributions to the politicians who are
• 37:33
  supposed to be
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: regulating you on behalf of the public.
• 37:37
  And so it's a ban not only on direct contributions,
• 37:40
  but on indirect contributions,
• 37:42
  too.
• 37:42
  So this gets at both the money that we can see and also the
• 37:45
  dark money issue.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 37:49
  It's also true that,
• 37:50
  so Michigan has sort of regressive campaign finance rules as
• 37:56
  well.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's my understanding that you had,
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: in order to even be able to ban some of the electioneering,
• 38:02
  you had to first define electioneering because there was this
• 38:05
  big loophole in
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan campaign finance that all of its neighbors don't have.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about that a little bit.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is actually,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:14
  I think one of the least understood pieces of the ballot
• 38:16
  initiative and potentially
• 38:18
  the largest game changer that we have is that Michigan had this
• 38:22
  definition of
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: electioneering,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: which relied on using the magic words.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you ran what is an obvious election ad,
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Miles,
• 38:30
  if you were running for office and I ran an ad saying Miles
• 38:33
  Baker hates kittens,
• 38:35
  that would not be considered electioneering in Michigan because
• 38:38
  I didn't say vote
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: for or vote against him.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:41
  Or support or oppose or mark your ballot because I didn't use
• 38:46
  those specific words.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's not considered electioneering and doesn't need to be reported.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we also update the definition of any Michigan's election laws.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Also, one of the things I thought was interesting.
• 38:56
  we were drafting this the last time a lot of this stuff was
• 38:59
  looked at was the 1970s
• 39:01
  so like there were no regulations technically around internet
• 39:05
  communications
• 39:06
  because those didn't exist so they listed off all of the things
• 39:09
  that did exist but
• 39:10
  of course internet stuff like that was not in there so we
• 39:12
  update those laws as well
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: and we'd update the definition of electioneering to mean anything that's
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: referencing a candidate when you're near an election mm-hmm
• 39:21
  One of the things about the electioneering rules that really –
• 39:25
  it's an incumbency
• 39:26
  protection racket to be able to raise that type of money and
• 39:29
  then communicate
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: without saying the eight magic words in Buckley v.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Vallejo.
• 39:35
  And Rick Snyder,
• 39:38
  Republican Governor Rick Snyder,
• 39:39
  campaigned against closing that loophole.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then once he got in office, he was like, what loophole?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Governor Gretchen Whitmer campaigned against closing that loophole.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then when she got in office, she was like, what loophole?
• 39:50
  And so it's great to see sort of the grassroots groups and the
• 39:55
  ballot question
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: committee working on that to have some direct democracy confrontations.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: That sort of extraordinary hole in campaign finance at Michigan.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and you're right, it's incumbency protection.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: we the case of Gary Glenn,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Republican,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: former Republican House rep from Midland.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Who, you know, stood up against the utilities to some extent.
• 40:18
  And DTE was able to throw in so much dark money going after him
• 40:22
  and made him lose his office.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Largely using that loophole to get more dark money into the election.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's great.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: So who all is part of this campaign?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: I know we,
• 40:37
  a healthcare advocacy organization at the Committee to Protect
• 40:39
  Healthcare,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: we have recently joined,
• 40:41
  but there's a kind of a slew of different stakeholders who are
• 40:45
  advocating for this.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: Who's all involved?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we have Michigan United,
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: we have Detroit Action,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Voters Not Politicians,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: the Hip Hop Caucus,
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: us at Clean Water Action,
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: as well as Michigan League of Conservation Voters.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: We also
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: have Moses, which is a faith organizing nonprofit.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: We were thrilled to get the support recently of Michigan SEIU.
• 41:13
  So we have some support from,
• 41:14
  you know,
• 41:15
  the men and women in the Michigan labor community.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we're really building support everywhere.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: We had signature collection at the No Kings rallies recently.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that same day,
• 41:27
  we had signature collectors at the Republican State Convention
• 41:31
  saying the same
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: thing and getting a lot of the same responses.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is broadly popular with the grassroots on both sides of the aisle.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's excellent.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's always interesting to hear.
• 41:43
  I heard someone was circulating at a gun show the other day and
• 41:46
  they were getting like.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: You love to see that.
• 41:52
  You don't see it very often when there's sort of a
• 41:54
  cross-cultural divides.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: You're seeing we're getting political consensus.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is, you know, we're polling at 81 percent in the Michigan public.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: The only people who don't like this law are politicians and lobbyists.
• 42:06
  All the regular people across the state love this ballot
• 42:09
  initiative so far.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 42:12
  let's get into the lobbyists and let's let's dial in a little
• 42:14
  bit on the health
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: care implications for of the ballot initiative.
• 42:17
  So myself and a lot of the team members that that helped put
• 42:22
  this podcast together,
• 42:23
  but also the Committee to Protect have have tried to pass
• 42:27
  health care legislation
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: in the state of Michigan.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: And what is true is that it is in it is a it is a state capital,
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Lansing,
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: not a pretty gray.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Lansing,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: is filled with lobbyists that are like sort of multi-client lobbyists,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: people who have lots of contracts,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: people who is sort of it's unclear who they work for,
• 42:48
  who have been around longer than the politicians themselves in
• 42:53
  many cases,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: but in some cases by decades.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: And just have like a lot of like institution.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: They hold the institutional knowledge for the state government.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: And unlike it's sort of like.
• 43:04
  corollary neighbors like a minnesota or wisconsin wisconsin has
• 43:08
  its own issues but
• 43:09
  it's it's it's very challenging to get sort of reform
• 43:12
  legislation through michigan
• 43:14
  largely because there's such a stranglehold by the lobby corps
• 43:17
  lobby corps in the
• 43:18
  state i'm wondering um i'm and and that's particularly true
• 43:22
  with health care uh
• 43:23
  industries and that part and even under that particularly true
• 43:26
  with insurance blue
• 43:27
  cross blue shield being the health insurer that dominates the
• 43:30
  state um differently
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: than some other states um
• 43:33
  How does the ballot initiative frustrate the efforts of
• 43:40
  lobbyists to completely
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: dominate the conversation?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do we think the effect will be if this does become the law?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 43:48
  So over the last 10 years,
• 43:49
  Blue Cross Blue Shield is the biggest spender in Michigan
• 43:53
  politics.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so when reform legislation is presented,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: like in 2023,
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: when we had a bill that Representative Grayback
• 44:02
  was sponsoring that would have set the same standards of care
• 44:07
  for insurance
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: companies that our doctors use so that,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: we're not having to go through this horrible preauthorization process for
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: everything that ensured that our actual health care providers
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:36
  you know they just wield extreme power in lansing um and so
• 44:41
  many of these big
• 44:41
  corporations like like blue cross blue shield um they contract
• 44:46
  with many of the
• 44:48
  multi-client firms in lansing um so that essentially they could
• 44:51
  buy the entire
• 44:52
  lobby core uh that's working on these things and then they can
• 44:56
  reinforce what
• 44:56
  they're what they're trying to do with election money for or
• 44:59
  against anyone and let
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: me just be clear so like blue cross blue shield like
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: If there is insurance,
• 45:05
  private insurance and private insurance has an important
• 45:09
  function in a health care
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: system,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: the insurance company,
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: if this passes,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: the insurance company is still going to be able to lobby.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: They are still going to be able to talk to legislators.
• 45:20
  They are still going to be able to make the case that they need
• 45:23
  to to the government.
• 45:25
  They are simply not going to be able to put bags of cash into
• 45:30
  the political system.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: True or false?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: They will have all of the rights that regular people enjoy.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Their CEOs might not be able to contribute to politicians,
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: but they'll be able to canvas if they want.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: They can come knock doors with us.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 45:46
  So I want to make a point for folks who are listening to this,
• 45:49
  particularly in Michigan.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: At the Committee to Protect Health Care,
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: we look out over states on what health reforms are going to be possible.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't even try in Michigan on insurance.
• 46:00
  And we don't try because Blue Cross Blue Shield has such
• 46:04
  political economy.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: This MMOP,
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: Michiganders for Money Out of Politics,
• 46:10
  is an effort to reduce the extraordinary political economy and
• 46:13
  political power of
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: the insurance industry,
• 46:16
  and it will open up the aperture of what is possible for
• 46:19
  healthcare reform.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't be more excited about it, Sean.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: So let me ask you a question.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: If someone's listening to this podcast and they want to get involved,
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: where do they go to get more information,
• 46:31
  whether that's to get organized in their community or get a
• 46:34
  petition in their
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: hands,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: where do they go?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 46:36
  I hope they're already working with the Committee to Protect
• 46:38
  Healthcare and
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: supporting the work that y'all do.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: They can help us out at the ballot initiative.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Visit us at mopupmichigan.org.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in one of the far-reaching parts of the state,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: we're mailing petitions out to people so they can sign.
• 46:51
  We have offices set up across the state for people to get
• 46:55
  signatures to come in and sign.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: We need everybody who can collect signatures on this,
• 47:01
  whether it's you just signing or getting 10 other people to
• 47:05
  sign or 50 other people
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: to sign.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: We need everybody signing.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: in health care story,
• 47:11
  I actually was able to bring I brought petitions into my
• 47:14
  doctor's office last month
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: when I had an appointment and the health care workers loved it.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody signed.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people really understand the problem here.
• 47:24
  And so we'd love to have everybody who can get involved at
• 47:28
  mopupmichigan.org.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Find a place near you.
• 47:31
  Fill out a petition sheet or two for us or more if you can and
• 47:35
  make sure that we
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: get this on the ballot.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to take people power to get us across the finish line in May.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: And OK, so we'll put that URL in the show notes.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Please check it out.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sean McBearty,
• 47:47
  he is making sure the Michiganders for Money Out of Politics
• 47:51
  ballot initiative is
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: getting organized and moving towards ballot qualification.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: Sean, thank you so much for coming on Page in America.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thanks for having me, Miles.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: Good to see you.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're back.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great interview.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Excited.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 48:05
  I mean,
• 48:05
  it's such an important issue,
• 48:06
  a citizen initiative standing up to big money.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's a lot of headwinds, but love it.
• 48:12
  Sort of this unholy alliance of barely regulated public
• 48:17
  utilities and barely
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: regulated big insurance coming together to oppose this thing.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if they'll make a star,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: like a money star when they try to oppose the ballot initiative.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it really is David versus Goliath.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: They have a lot of headwinds to get this thing first on the ballot.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then if it's on the ballot to win, I'm rooting for them, though.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in Michigan on a yes vote.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've got five out of my family, so we're good.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's half of Spring Lake, right?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Rob, it's great talking to you today.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Today's episode is written by Chris Savage, Dr.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Rob Davidson, and me, Miles Baker.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was produced by Amelia Dillenschneider, Joel Bryson, and Chris Savage.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was edited by Darian Badigan.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: Our music is by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you enjoyed today's show,
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: please subscribe and leave us a rating on YouTube,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: Spotify,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts,
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: or wherever you listen.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: Your support helps others discover the podcast.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: And physicians, your voice matters.
• 49:19
  Join the fight for better American health care by becoming a
• 49:21
  member of the
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: Committee to Protect Health Care.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: Visit www.fema.org.
• 49:26
  And if you are a member of the Committee to Protect Healthcare
• 49:28
  or actively involved
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: with us,
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: please check out the June Organizing Summit is coming up,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: and we'd love you to participate.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: You can find more information on the Committee to Protect website,
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: and if you're interested in learning more,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: you can reach out and contact a staff person on the team.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the show for today, Rob.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: Great chatting.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking forward to chatting next week.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, same.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: I missed last week.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad we're back, and I'll see you next week.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Bye, everyone.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.