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Coffee Smarter: Tasting Coffee · Coffee People Podcast

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I like beer, hey, everyone. If you like the roast West Coast
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coffee podcast, you might also appreciate the, I like beer the
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0:30
Cam. Hey, good morning everyone.
0:39
Welcome to season 4 episode, 11 of the roast West Coast coffee
0:44
podcast. I'm Ryan wolfed and on every
0:47
other episode of this show, we try to get a little bit coffee
0:50
smarter series simran Khalsa, the executive director of coffee
0:54
at lofty Coffee Company. Returns today, to follow up on
0:57
last week's developing flavor talk to talk about how she
1:00
tastes coffee in particular, when going through the sampling
1:03
and roast profiling stages. We also talked about how tasting
1:07
involves our Senses and how sometimes you can get a little
1:11
bit silly, there is some overlap with previous episodes where
1:14
we've covered coffee cupping, but we definitely delve into
1:18
some new ground today. Again, I'm drinking a lofty,
1:21
coffee morning, dove blend. It was the batch Brew.
1:24
They were offering at lofty coffee.
1:26
Roasting works when I popped in last week.
1:29
I made this one as a V60, pour over using a paper filter and a
1:33
ratio of 15 grams of water to 1 gram of coffee grind.
1:37
I usually Brew about 20, 22 to 25 grams of coffee every morning
1:41
and I end up with almost the exact amount of coffee to fill.
1:44
My favorite coffee mug with tasting notes of caramel.
1:47
Sweet. Lemon and cocoa.
1:48
This is an easy drinking coffee and mine is good.
1:52
It's not as good as the one I had at the shop but I'm still
1:54
enjoying the hell out of it anyway.
1:57
I'm not sure if we've ever specifically noted it but batch
2:00
Brews are filtered coffees made in larger quantities or batches
2:04
that most coffee shops will offer you.
2:06
If you walk in and say I'd like a coffee Please batch Brews are
2:10
commonly made with some sort of coffee machine but the term.
2:13
Well, not entirely accurate is sometimes used to indicate any
2:17
coffee made in quantity so long as it is ready for you.
2:20
When you walk in the door, even if that coffee was made as an
2:23
oversized pour over drip coffees in, which hot water is dripped
2:27
over, ground coffee, either in a machine or as a pour-over, is
2:31
another term used for the house batch Brew, whatever you're
2:34
drinking today. I hope you have enough of it to
2:37
last you about. That's because it is time for us
2:40
to get coffee. Smarter on the roast West Coast
2:42
coffee podcast, with Siri simran Khalsa, the executive director
2:46
of coffee at lofty Coffee Company.
3:00
Welcome back to the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
3:02
Siri my brain still hurts from our last conversation and so
3:07
hopefully we can cover something that maybe makes more sense to
3:10
me today and I'm glad you're back.
3:13
Thank you for having me. I saw you have a dog over there.
3:17
What's your dog's name? My dog's name is Pablo.
3:21
He is a sweet lab mutt brindle baby.
3:26
I also I'm actually Very happy. I recently rescued a cat and
3:31
before, right as I set up my computer and like everything she
3:34
was being not friendly and she was like, trying to kill.
3:38
She always like she hates my computer.
3:39
She was like, trying to close it and she's like, running around.
3:42
And like you better not be disturbing our podcast
3:46
recording. But she, I think she got the
3:48
message because I have no idea where she is.
3:52
We're actually fostering a lab but right now they Mick, who's
3:56
part of a A military program called packed where you Foster
4:01
dogs for people who are on deployment or pets.
4:04
Oh, cool. And you know that there's an end
4:06
date. They're coming back, they're
4:08
taking this this Pat back, but this is our first time doing it
4:12
so far. It's been a lot of fun, but it
4:14
was definitely, it was a lot of learning to because we've never
4:18
had a 70 pound dog in our apartment before.
4:20
Yeah. And that's definitely different
4:23
from the terrier that we used to have, who was like 19 pounds.
4:26
And he also, Likes to join the podcast.
4:29
So today, my wife is home were chatting on the weekend and so
4:33
she's she's taking them for a walk or something right now.
4:36
But on other shows, like he wants to be where I am so badly,
4:41
that he will keep bumping his head into the door to this
4:43
little room. Until I finally let him stick.
4:46
His nose. Has a lot of men.
4:48
Yeah. Yeah.
4:50
Pablo is lying next to me right now he's like, I guess I'll hang
4:54
out. That's good.
4:57
It's nice to have. The dog around.
4:58
It was it's been two years since we did and but I forgot how much
5:01
work it is to. Yeah, it's so worth it though.
5:05
He's my best friend. Yeah, he's five now and he's
5:09
just the best. He makes it pretty easy, but I
5:13
think I lucked out with that. Then my question would be, is
5:17
there ever a chance that Pablo will get a coffee named after
5:20
him at lofty coffee? That'd be sweet.
5:24
You know what though? And I hope he doesn't mind me
5:26
saying it would probably be. Good.
5:28
Who's the the founder of lofty? His dog here.
5:33
They recently had to put him down.
5:35
So I think there would be, there would be a Buddha coffee before
5:39
a Pablo coffee, which is totally fine.
5:41
He was the sweetest sweetest boy, there was a time where we
5:45
allowed dogs, and in restaurants and bars, kind of regularly.
5:49
And having like the shop dog was always like a cool thing, I
5:52
don't think that's allowed anymore for health code stuff.
5:55
Like it's not I know and that It's funny because Eric walls be
5:59
like yeah Burton Pablo to work. I'm like, he's going to have to
6:02
sit on the cold patio and the cement like he'd much rather be
6:07
sleeping in my bed, like he does not want to come to work with me
6:11
as badly as I'd love him to come to work.
6:12
It's one thing if he could be in the Roasterie but like, just
6:15
having to be outside. That's no fun.
6:18
It is, it's fun for me to be outside, but yeah, I was just
6:21
saying last week, we talked a lot about what you've learned
6:25
about coffee from roasting and how you develop flavors.
6:27
Typically the process and one of the things that I took away from
6:31
that was how much tasting you're doing along the way.
6:34
You're pulling beans out, regularly at different times,
6:36
you're tasting them all, and comparing them to each other, to
6:39
find like the ideal, the ideal roast profile that you want to
6:42
make. I'm hoping you can take us
6:45
through the next step of that. Which is how you taste coffee.
6:48
I've been told, slurping is important.
6:50
Hope you can explain why that is my natural instinct.
6:54
When I taste anything that I'm trying to taste is to close my
6:56
eyes. I don't know if that Actually
6:58
helps or not but for some reason it feels like I'm shutting off a
7:01
sense. So my question this week for you
7:03
is since I try to make them super complicated and overly
7:06
long is if you could just walk us through how you taste coffee,
7:10
when you're doing it, both during that roasting profiling
7:14
process and then also afterwards to make sure that you've gotten
7:17
what you want. Yeah, I love this question
7:21
again, because I think like, as a roaster actually, spend more
7:27
time tasting coffee than roasting coffee, which is good
7:33
because like, you know, you're trying to, you know, create a
7:38
beverage that people are going to drink and so you better be
7:41
tasting it to make sure it tastes the way you want it to.
7:44
So to walk you through cupping. Are you familiar with cupping
7:48
like Hot, like why you set it up the way that you do or how it's
7:52
set up? Yes, we've talked, we did have
7:55
an episode on the show while cupping, which I'll send people
7:58
to, but maybe we can just do a real quick recap.
8:02
How about I just say? And you can tell me if I'm
8:04
wrong, is essentially you're grinding up a bunch of different
8:08
samples pulled from The Roaster, you know, or sample coffees,
8:11
you're thinking about purchasing and you're putting them in these
8:14
little, like, soup bowls, the grounds and covering them with
8:18
hot water. So there's A bloom and then
8:19
using a spoon to push like the grinds the float to the top out
8:23
of the way and tasting, some of that coffee to see how they
8:27
compare to each other. Is that roughly?
8:29
Yeah, I think you've hit it, like the nail on the head with
8:32
that one where that's exactly what you're doing.
8:34
I think stuff a question. I get sometimes is why we do it
8:37
this way and it's allows us to taste a lot of different samples
8:41
or a lot of different coffees all at once.
8:43
Without, you know, I mean what if you had 15 samples to do in
8:48
your important making? Ten little pour overs.
8:50
It also minimizes like any sort of Brewing, variants, or any
8:55
bias that might come in with other Brew methods.
8:58
So, it just so it's the same amount of coffee.
9:00
The same grind size, the same amount of water.
9:03
So it just is getting your really just tasting the coffee.
9:07
So what I'll do is exactly that will set up a cupping.
9:11
And when I'm sampling a new sample, I'll use what is known
9:16
as like this SC. A And sheet.
9:20
And then I will use a similar system when I'm doing my normal
9:26
just production couplings, I usually don't use this SCA sheet
9:30
for every single production company, and its kind of
9:32
excessive but for a new coffee and how this is, how I'll do it
9:38
and how its setup is you're evaluating all the sensory
9:42
qualities of the coffee. So the first being, as you
9:45
mentioned, it kind of has this Bloom and there's what we call
9:48
the And the first one actually, I'm gonna set back when I'm
9:53
evaluating a coffee. I'm going to first evaluate the
9:57
dry fragrance of the coffee beans.
9:59
So I'll maybe take a sniff or a smell of the dry, ground beans,
10:05
and take note of how that is and then we'll pour the water.
10:10
Well, let it sit for a few minutes and then we will break
10:13
the crust again using that spoon where we will gently push those
10:16
grinds back and then smell that wet aroma.
10:19
Emma of the coffee, and it's kind of cool to see sometimes
10:22
that dry Aroma translates to the wet.
10:24
But sometimes, you know, you might get, like, chocolatey
10:28
darker qualities but then when you add the water sometimes,
10:30
maybe like the brighter qualities will come out.
10:33
Sometimes not or sometimes, they'll be more intensity to the
10:38
wet Aroma. I was going to say those two
10:40
senses are so connected. The smelling and the tasting.
10:44
And when you taste something that doesn't taste the way it
10:46
smells, which is like when you break that.
10:49
Down, doesn't make actually sense, but it really will throw
10:52
your brain. You'll be like, oh, that's
10:54
something's wrong even when it's really not, it's just those two
10:57
things. Maybe the things that you smell
10:59
first, don't line up. And I'm sure there's all kinds
11:02
of reasons for that, but everyone is different.
11:04
I wanted to say, based on what you were saying, just a minute
11:07
ago, how much tasting you do as opposed to roasting sometimes.
11:11
It feels like it almost and this is a real we're going to I'm
11:15
going on a real big tangent. Here everyone.
11:16
So I apologize will get back to the topic at hand but If you
11:20
were to hire someone to replace you, for example, is it more
11:24
important that they can do? The, they have the roasting
11:27
experience or that they can naturally understand how the
11:30
tasting process works like. It almost feels like, based on
11:33
that thing. You said it.
11:35
Maybe we just let this sit out there to think about, but it
11:38
almost feels like, if you are naturally a good taster, or you
11:41
have been able to train your palate, that might be more
11:45
important, maybe not more, but it as Aunt as actually being
11:50
able to run through the software and the roasting programs and
11:53
understand that process, the the mechanical side of it.
11:58
If, I mean honest, I feel like Operating a roaster might
12:05
actually be easier than tasty. Yeah.
12:08
You know, they're both learnable skills, but I think, you know,
12:14
if you're if to just touch on this question and then we can
12:18
get back to it is at least in my incident like we have Brandon,
12:23
who's our Junior production roaster?
12:26
And if someone was like, literally replacing my job.
12:28
Yeah. Where he's, you know, building
12:30
the skill to be a great roaster. Operator where yeah, maybe then
12:35
that that other person is like more qualified and tasty, and
12:39
Co-op coffee. So I definitely take goes
12:41
hand-in-hand and I think they're both learnable skills but they
12:46
both have to be. Maybe there's a balance there,
12:50
that is needed. Can't have one without the
12:52
other. I'm going to look into that, a
12:54
little bit more will come. Will touch on that again,
12:56
someday in the future. Yeah, we can take note and have
12:59
again. I think that's a great.
13:00
I think it's a great topic because like it's Like if you're
13:03
tasting the next skills than also be able to identify what is
13:08
going on in the rose, that is making this coffee, tastes this
13:12
way. You know it's almost the art
13:14
versus the science or the art versus the technical skill of
13:17
it. You know.
13:18
And taste is it's like color like we can all agree that this
13:22
thing is blue but whether or not we're seeing the same blue
13:24
depends on. Yeah.
13:26
You know the person and it's a whole we're going to break some
13:29
brains if we go too far down that rabbit hole.
13:31
Well, also it's fun. Funny, you say that because
13:34
we're getting to talk about taste, and sometimes when I
13:38
taste a coffee, I'll just like a color.
13:40
We'll just come to mind. It's not like a flavor, but
13:43
like, I'll be like this taste yellow or, and I don't know if
13:48
that's just how my brain works. And obviously, that does not
13:50
translate for everyone, but that's a very common thing.
13:55
If you're looking at my notes, that you'll just see colors
13:57
written places because sometimes that's just how it is.
14:02
Yeah, but Makes sense to me because I'll think that about
14:06
about flavors of things, because we do eat a lot of things that
14:09
maybe don't directly. They're not real foods.
14:12
Like I'm thinking about like a Popsicle or something like this,
14:14
tastes like red. Yeah, yeah.
14:17
But I know what that means and I think other people know what it
14:20
means because we're associating colors with foods that we have
14:23
eaten and for you doing tastings, you're you're pulling
14:27
tasting notes from other things that we've experienced.
14:31
So yeah. When we say this, Tastes like if
14:34
you said this taste like blue, I would probably naturally think
14:37
of blueberries which is a common tasting now, right?
14:41
So that makes sense to me. So I think where we need to get
14:44
back to you is you're going to walk us through how you taste
14:47
coffee, once we've set up our cupping or we've set up our
14:51
grinds to taste. Yeah.
14:54
So at this point, we've already evaluated the aroma and the
14:57
fragrance of the coffee. And so now we're going to taste
15:02
the coffee. Typically I'll let it cool down
15:05
a little bit because first of all you don't want to burn your
15:08
tongue but also I think a lot of the more nuanced flavors of the
15:12
coffee come out as it cools. Also sometimes when it's hot it
15:17
might just tastes good but then as it cools maybe off taste will
15:21
come out. So making sure the coffee you're
15:23
tasting as it cools and that the coffee still has great qualities
15:26
as it cools. But the first thing that I know,
15:30
and this was an inner questions is as we're Tasting.
15:33
We slurp and we do this to spread the coffee across our
15:40
entire palette and to also allow some air in there, so that we're
15:45
really tasting, the coffee kind of across our palate.
15:49
So we're getting all the qualities of our coffee tasting,
15:52
all the different areas of our taste buds verse and I was like,
15:56
if I'm copying with someone new, I was like imagine a cup of
15:59
coffee and you just sip it and it kind of rolls across your
16:02
palate, maybe you get Some acidity in the front and maybe
16:05
there's like this lingering quality on the sides of your
16:08
tongue where when you slurp it it's all going across your
16:11
tongue all at once. So you're really being able to
16:14
like identify those qualities more quickly.
16:18
This was one of the hardest things for me to do when I first
16:22
did like my first couplings because I feel like in my brain
16:25
I was I've been trained for so long, it's impolite to slurp and
16:30
so I just like it was so Hard for me.
16:33
I had to really focus on this idea that I was gonna and slurp.
16:38
That was, probably sorry for anyone listening if that sounded
16:40
gross, I was trying to slurp without having anything to slurp
16:44
for the second. But yeah, it was.
16:46
It was there where there is like this mental thing of it took me
16:49
several tries to get to a point where I didn't think about the
16:53
slurp as much as I thought about the flavors coming into my
16:56
mouth. So I only say that.
16:58
So anyone starting this process for the first time or going to
17:01
their first cupping It's like anything that we've talked about
17:05
it. There's practice involved.
17:08
Yeah. And there's what I'm copying
17:10
with new new people. There's always a lot of Giggles
17:12
going around of like people slurping and this is laughing
17:16
about it, because it's very silly.
17:18
It's honestly very silly. But it's, yeah, definitely like
17:22
some like, of the most like, skilled coppers like they can
17:26
like, as they slurp, you hear these like crazy whistles
17:29
whatnot but simply it's to just spread that coffee and Laver
17:33
across your whole palette as well as allow Aaron.
17:36
So that you're really tasting all the nuances of the coffee
17:40
but then to get more into the tasting part.
17:43
Usually, I'll take a, my first round, will just be like an
17:47
overall impression of the coffee kind of take note of like, what
17:51
are the first things that come up and then maybe I'll do a few
17:54
few more rounds and I'll get more down into the specifics.
17:58
As I said, I'm using the copying sheet that's provided by icao.
18:04
There's different categories of the first when it comes to
18:06
tasting is going to be flavor and aftertaste.
18:10
So that first time I'll really like pinpoint, what are the
18:15
flavors that I'm getting? And how is the overall after
18:18
Taste of this coffee? And then, from there, the next
18:22
kind of part of the sheet is going to be acidity and so from
18:26
there, you want to evaluate the quality of the acidity, the
18:29
intensity are there and I also use acidity to Help identify
18:34
flavors where it's like. Okay, I'm having this acidic
18:37
this like more acidic flavor. Maybe it tastes like lemon and
18:42
that'll help me identify flavors as well.
18:45
And then the next part on that sheet is going to be body.
18:48
So similar, it's not a specific flavor but it's going to be how
18:53
is the quality and intensity of the body and then the last in
18:59
the specifics here is going to be sweet.
19:03
Yes, that's another wait, great quality to also help identify
19:08
flavor. So you maybe you're tasting.
19:09
The slit sip of coffee and it you have some sweetness, maybe
19:13
that I can identify that sweetness is caramel or brown
19:16
sugar and that'll help me, you know, identify with that flavor
19:20
is and then this is not on the copying sheet but this is
19:26
something also. When like brewing coffee, I try
19:29
to identify is in most coffees if they're roasted.
19:33
Well, Are going to have some sweetness, you're going to have
19:35
some acidity, you're going to have some, maybe some bitter,
19:39
positively, bitter qualities or maybe -, but I try to sort of
19:45
identify those three things. So maybe I'm pulling an
19:47
espresso. And the sweetness is caramel,
19:52
and the acidity is Cherry, and the bitterness is like a dark
19:56
chocolate. And so to me, that's like, using
19:59
those qualities to help identify.
20:01
What flavors are. And helping us break down in
20:05
like these little sections. Like how to identify certain
20:09
flavors in a coffee using these categories?
20:12
Do you have like a new coffee at lofty?
20:15
That maybe you can kind of recall and say like this was,
20:18
these were some of the initial notes and then did those notes
20:21
like follow up later on, as you were going through the process.
20:24
Like, I'm trying to think about like preconceived notions of
20:28
like, if I smell these things, do I naturally start looking for
20:32
those things as I go through. Through the process.
20:34
Is that an issue that you train yourself on.
20:38
So I definitely have found that. It's something that I look for
20:44
is like, sometimes I'll smell things in a coffee and then I'm
20:47
more Curious. Does that, is that smell going
20:50
to refer or transfer to flavor? And sometimes it is.
20:54
And sometimes it isn't We have like this great tool that's like
21:00
it identifies specific Aromas and smells in coffee both in
21:05
like the caramelization in like distilled I'm butchering the
21:10
name so I don't want to try to in my mind tell you exactly what
21:14
it is but the Aromas chart is a little different than the like
21:19
Flavor wheel for example. And so I do try to kind of be
21:24
critical on on how I'm evaluating The aroma and vice
21:28
versa to like the flavor, if that makes sense.
21:32
Yeah, you know, I don't know that.
21:33
I feel really kind of dumb right now, but I don't know that.
21:37
I thought I knew, I don't even know if I knew there was like in
21:40
a coffee, Aroma is chart. Like we talked about Flavor
21:42
wheel a lot. I'm gonna find out right now
21:45
because so, so here it is. It's the Lynn lenez do Cafe and
21:52
this is like a really awesome training tool that I've been so
21:56
fortunate. Fortunate to be able to use.
21:58
And essentially, what it is, Le Nez do Cafe.
22:02
They actually originally made this Aroma training kit for wine
22:08
and then they, they made one for coffee.
22:11
I'm actually going to send you the link right now and this kit
22:15
it has like like distilled like concentrated, alcohol, like
22:20
examples of what these Aromas are.
22:23
And so this kid is used for training but they also Oh, have
22:27
a really beautiful chart that has all the Aromas and it's like
22:33
really beautifully made where it has like color, it uses color,
22:37
and all these other things into, like, showing what these are
22:41
rumors. Are I really do love this about
22:43
coffee. That there are so many overlaps
22:46
between the science and our inability to explain science and
22:50
words. And so we use senses to some
22:53
extent and Recently, I was sent some coffee beans unsolicited.
22:59
That just said blind tasting on them and was kind of challenge
23:04
to do that. And that's not something I do a
23:05
lot. I'm not a roaster, I'm not
23:07
working in a real story, but I did and the first go-around, I
23:11
really couldn't focus on any of the flavors.
23:14
It was just kind of all coffee flavor.
23:17
And the second time I made a point to really sit down and
23:21
turned off the podcast, I wasn't listening to my own Podcast.
23:25
Just, so let's make that clear of someone else's butt.
23:29
And I actually turned on some music and just kind of had on
23:31
the background and, like, sat with my.
23:34
And I mention this earlier, I saw with my eyes closed and just
23:36
kind of focused on what I was doing, and I was able to pull
23:40
out some flavors and then thankfully like when I sent them
23:44
to the rooster he confirmed that.
23:45
That's what was in there and I was very proud of myself and
23:48
even though I'm not in practice, it wasn't it was something I was
23:53
able to do based on what little experience I have and also
23:56
really just paying attention and using all those senses and
24:00
trying to focus and so I think there is like a very low, I
24:05
don't say barrier entry but I think anyone who wants to take a
24:08
few minutes with their cup of coffee in the morning can get
24:12
something out of it because of these tools that we have and
24:16
totally you know taking it to that next level is where we
24:20
really start like A roaster, like you starts getting into the
24:23
science and the history and the repetition and the comparison.
24:27
But for someone who's just listening to show that really
24:30
likes coffee in the morning, you can really enhance that
24:33
experience by finding a few tools, like a flavor wheel or
24:36
this Aroma wheel, which I'll I'll find and try to link to.
24:40
Yeah, I'll send you this image and I can also even talk to talk
24:44
to them a little bit because I use it everyday.
24:46
I just was like, brain farting on the name but there's kind of
24:50
different categories. These.
24:51
And so one of them being the sugar Browning and these are all
24:55
Aromas that come out in the roasting process.
24:58
So the sugar Browning, these Aromas could be like dark
25:02
chocolate toast nutty, butter caramel and we have aromatic
25:09
taints. So these could be like, - or
25:12
unlike not - but just like taint qualities, that could be
25:16
happening in the roast, like, you get like, rubber Aroma or
25:20
smoke or What do we have here? We said, straw, that's a common
25:25
one. If it's like, underdeveloped,
25:27
you'll maybe taste smell like hey, or something like that
25:29
leather. And then in the dry distillation
25:33
Aroma, you'll find things like cocoa like Cedar malt.
25:39
That's a comment. Malt is a common Aroma.
25:42
I find in some coffees like current, which is like a type of
25:48
berry maple syrup. Pepper and then we have our
25:53
enzyme that enzymatic Aromas like honey apricot green peas,
26:00
Apple, lemon. And so it's again, this tool is
26:06
really cool. I'm also just outside of coffee,
26:09
I'd love like smells so it's just a cool thing to get into
26:14
and these are all things that are coming out through the
26:16
roasting process. You know?
26:17
Because green, these green beans don't have these Aromas but as
26:20
we roast it, We're uncovering, those aromatic qualities.
26:25
I think what I'm taking from the show today is that when we are
26:29
tasting we're not just, it's not just one sense that we're using.
26:32
We're using all of these different senses.
26:36
Yeah. And so something you had said
26:38
earlier on that, you I think you mentioned feeling a little silly
26:42
for, but I actually think is real is closing your eyes.
26:47
I actually was I partook in this interesting.
26:51
Bean coffee conference I think it was like early in the
26:54
pandemic so is all virtual but forgetting this person's name
26:58
but they did this like is like a 15-minute little part in the
27:03
like presentation where it was like.
27:06
They walked us through how to taste a raisin or like a
27:11
blueberry or something where it was like sit there.
27:14
Hold the raisin feel. The reason in your hand like and
27:17
like smell it, touch it, like and like looked like close your
27:20
eyes. Put it in your mouth.
27:21
But don't bite on it. Like, feel it in your mouth.
27:24
It was like, very it was almost like this meditation of being
27:27
extremely present and I find with cupping.
27:31
That's something that to be honest, is extremely challenging
27:34
in my work environment because like, we don't have like a
27:38
dedicated like enclosed copying lab, which I wish we did.
27:42
So, there's a lot going around me.
27:44
And oftentimes, I'll have my like noise, canceling
27:46
headphones, and I'll put on, like, like white noise or like
27:49
frequencies or something to kind of Alike flock out the sound and
27:54
its really like this practice and being in like incredibly
27:59
present with what you are doing and what you're smelling and
28:03
what you're tasting. And I think that's something
28:07
outside of coffee. I love food and beverage and I
28:11
think like eating and drinking is like this moment where you're
28:15
like focused on like a sensory experience, ultimately and I
28:20
think those senses go outside. A smell and taste and can be
28:23
like again like full body full body experience.
28:30
I tried to lead you there earlier to plug something from
28:33
lofty. But you didn't take the bait
28:34
because you're always avoiding. So tell me.
28:38
I know you guys are always doing new stuff.
28:39
You're going through this process at lofty.
28:41
Are there any new coffees that you guys are excited about or
28:43
that are in the works or that people can kind of look to?
28:47
That's something new for them? Yeah, absolutely.
28:50
So actually We are. I'm very exciting.
28:54
I don't know if we talked about about this, but I'm sure you're
28:57
aware of it that the supply chain has been very interesting
29:01
over the last couple of years. And so there's some things that
29:04
have been like we've been waiting for and just like
29:07
getting the right packaging and then getting the coffee to
29:10
arrive at getting, everything to line up has been challenging.
29:13
But we're looking into March, we're having a full lineup of
29:17
new coffees and a goal of ours has been to offer. / more for
29:23
the most part, you know, we'll have a Guatemala, will have
29:25
Ethiopia. Maybe we'll have one other but
29:28
this is going to be our most expensive single origin
29:30
offering. I think we've ever had and I am
29:33
so excited. We have this delicious classic,
29:38
Guatemalan Geisha That was supposed to be a holiday release
29:41
that again, because of the, because of it'll be certified
29:47
change st. Patrick's Day.
29:49
Yeah, well I said I was like People are going to want to
29:52
gauge whether it's the holidays are not so it's like classic T
29:57
like Jasmine star Anis, Bergamot, delicious, Guatemalan
30:04
Geisha. What is what is bergamont?
30:07
I don't know that name or that flavor.
30:08
Bergamot is a citrus. It are you familiar with Earl
30:13
Grey tea? So the flavor of Earl Grey is
30:17
Bergamot like that that like Sweet kind of citrusy.
30:23
Floral quality of Earl. Grey is is pergamon just as a
30:28
reference, I didn't drink Earl Grey tea for a long time, and I
30:31
do drink quite a bit of tea, but I think I avoided it because I
30:35
assumed it would be Bland because of the name gray.
30:37
And that is what we're talking about were talking about tasting
30:40
colors. So what it's not.
30:41
It's so fantastic. And now, we always have in the
30:44
house. But there there.
30:47
There you go. Are my association with the
30:49
color and the flavor and everything kind of And together
30:52
their yard interrupt, no worries.
30:56
The st. Patrick's Day Geisha, the Steep
30:58
actress Acacia. And then we have this is
31:02
actually our very first direct relationship coffee that we have
31:06
every single year. It's called The Genesis lot from
31:09
a producer in very honest. Guatemala there.
31:13
It's the it's a family-run Farm by the Prentiss family and it's
31:16
called Finca de dios. And this again back in, like,
31:21
2014 was the very first like we are buying specifically from
31:25
this farmer we know exactly how much money is going to this
31:27
Farmer for each pound and we've been getting it ever since then.
31:32
So it's a classic wash Guatemalan with really nice like
31:36
stone fruit. Nectarine qualities like a
31:39
really nice balanced acidity caramel chocolate, maybe a
31:43
little bit of citrus in there but it's like an all-around
31:46
favorite of lofty. Goers as its we have it you're
31:50
in and out. So That's going to be there.
31:53
And then this last year, we've always had a natural Ethiopian
31:58
on our menu. Any time we've ever tried to
32:00
like, do a different single origin espresso.
32:02
It's like never as successful. So all year we have a natural
32:07
Ethiopian as a pour-over and as a single origin espresso and
32:12
we're bringing back a fan. Favorite called.
32:15
It's an Ethiopian coffee from the town of Santorini, which is
32:20
there's a Particular washing station there.
32:23
That just it is incredible. It's just it's what you want in
32:26
a natural Ethiopian. It's a berry bomb but it's got
32:29
like a really nice body in this like nice dark chocolate
32:32
quality, very fragrant and aromatic so it's like when you
32:37
whenever anyone orders one, it's like the whole Cafe, just like
32:40
fills up with like amazing Aromas and but something this
32:45
year, I've been wanting to do is even though it won't be on
32:48
single origin. It's also have a watch Ethiopian
32:51
And we have from the same region of Saddam.
32:55
Oh, this just really amazingly clean washed Ethiopian to me.
33:02
It's got this like nice floral Citrus with a little bit of
33:05
blackberry and a nice like lightbody.
33:09
And then as I said, it's an extensive new single origin
33:13
venue. We have a few more copies.
33:15
Well and these two I'm really excited about because one of
33:18
them we've never done a single origin from this from this
33:20
region. And then also these two coffees.
33:26
So one of them is from Peru and the other is from Papua New
33:29
Guinea. And for both of these coffees
33:32
Brandon, who's been the junior production Roaster, at lofty for
33:36
about six months. Now, maybe a little more than
33:39
six months. I really brought him into the
33:42
process of deciding which coffees.
33:44
We were going to buy where we got a handful of samples from
33:47
Peru and a handful samples from Papua New Guinea, We each chose
33:53
one that we loved and we bought both of those coffees.
33:55
So that was a cool experience as like a trainer and leader in my
34:01
building and my team to be able to bring him in to be a part of
34:04
that process because I will say he's actually got a really,
34:10
really good palette. And every time we cup were
34:12
really calibrated, and he always has great feedback and notes.
34:17
And so, again, to bring someone who's like new into roasting,
34:21
Into that process. I can only, I can only learn
34:24
from it and he can only learn from it.
34:25
So those are two new coffees that I'm excited to have.
34:30
You just said something super interesting to me was that your
34:33
calibrated like your tasting together?
34:35
Like, that's a whole nother level of roasting, I never
34:38
really thought about like a lot of Roasters are roast on their
34:41
own, or they have people that assist them.
34:43
But they are the final one. And you're actually taking both
34:46
of your flavors and comparing them and finding coffees that
34:50
work. It's just like another level.
34:51
Of difficulty just like Nuance. Yeah.
34:56
And I mean my hopes is that by doing that like it also gives
35:01
him more ownership and what we're doing.
35:03
And it's not just like this is what I said and this is my
35:06
profile. And you better roasted perfect.
35:08
It's like, oh no, like I tasted this coffee and it tastes great.
35:12
And like, I'm now can't wait for it to come in because I had a
35:15
hand and a say in like making that decision.
35:18
And we're going to like, you know, Roast, the coffee, the
35:22
best, we can roasting roasting coffee the best.
35:28
You can is a great way to end today.
35:30
Thank you for coming back to the show and I'm excited to figure
35:34
out what it is. We're going to talk about next
35:35
time. Thank you so much.
35:37
This is a really fun conversation to recap from
35:44
today. The checklist to follow when
35:47
tasting coffee really tasting like for a cupping or if you're
35:51
getting A roasting goes as follows.
35:54
First, smell the dry beans, trying to pick out any unique.
35:57
Aroma has second pour hot water over the coffee.
36:01
Grinds a little bit of crust will form third break that crust
36:06
using a spoon to push back. The grinds.
36:08
There are specific spoons for this but any soup spoon will do
36:12
fourth. Smell the wet.
36:14
Aroma, get your nose way down. Just hovering over the coffee
36:17
and breathe it in deep. Fifth slurp.
36:20
The coffee to Spread it across your entire pallet across your
36:23
entire tongue. This will let in some air and
36:26
spread out the flavors across all of your taste buds.
36:29
Siri also suggested tasting as the coffee cools to avoid
36:33
burning your tongue and to better identify subtle nuanced
36:37
flavors or off flavors that you may not be able to process when
36:41
the coffee is too hot. And while you're tasting, you're
36:43
looking for more than just one thing.
36:46
There is the initial flavor and then any after tastes then
36:49
you'll be considering the acidity.
36:51
Body sweetness. And bitterness of the coffee.
36:54
These are qualities that you can focus on one at a time to help
36:57
you. Identify, what flavors?
36:59
You might find the first time, I did a coffee cupping, the most
37:02
common flavor. I thought I could taste was
37:04
dirt. No joke, every coffee tasted the
37:08
same, but I had a good teacher who pushed me to go further.
37:12
Would I describe the dirt taste as earthy like soil or bitter?
37:15
Like really, really, dark chocolate.
37:17
Could I taste any sweetness at all?
37:20
If so was it sweet. Like brown sugar or Sweet like a
37:23
berry with practice and the realization that I could break
37:26
down my tasting into categories. I got better, of course, it
37:30
helps to have a coffee flavor wheel handy, and I'm looking
37:34
forward to getting an aroma chart to refer to the next time
37:37
I taste as well. I'll link to some examples of
37:39
both flavor and Aroma charts, that you can reference on roast
37:42
westcoast.com. If you've already subscribed to
37:45
the newsletter, it'll show up in your email inbox later today.
37:49
If not. What are you waiting for?
37:51
You'll get every episode of this coffee, pod cast, along with
37:54
more coffee content sent to you every week in the newsletter,
37:59
I'll also include some information on tasting colors.
38:02
Some claim that ability is a form of synesthesia.
38:05
I think I pronounce that right, which is a quote perceptual
38:09
phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive
38:12
pathway leads to an involuntary experience in a second sensory
38:17
or cognitive pathway. Basically one sensory Audience
38:21
is filtered through another one. There are also researchers who
38:25
study how culture impacts our perception of flavor and how we
38:28
can create associations between color and taste.
38:32
For example, if you are given the same coffee that had been
38:35
tinted in three different colors, using a tasteless food
38:38
coloring, would you still perceive the coffee's to taste
38:42
the same? Or would they taste differently
38:44
to you? Thanks again to Siri for
38:46
spending some time with us. That's time that she's not
38:49
spending at the Roasterie or time.
38:51
She's Not spending paying attention to her dog.
38:53
Pablo, if Pablo is anything like the Foster dog staying with me,
38:57
he supervising this entire podcast, operation on her side
39:00
of things. That Foster program, I mentioned
39:03
during the show is packed for Animals.
39:05
Dot-org packed, spelled PA CT, I'll link to it in the
39:09
newsletter. It's a great program in which
39:11
temporary Fosters take on pets when their owners are deployed
39:15
by the military or have a temporary need for a hospital.
39:18
Stay. It feels like we're providing a
39:20
service to a pet owner who can't wait to be reunited with their
39:23
companion. While at the same time, I get to
39:26
hang out with this cool dog. Who loves to nap in the sun?
39:29
Will I drink my morning cup of coffee?
39:31
If you are interested in being a foster, check out packed for
39:34
animals dot-org. And while you're online, check
39:38
out, this shows, industry Partners, including ignite
39:41
Coffee Roasters, Cafe litter. Most your coffee company, coffee
39:44
cycle, roasting leap coffee, zoom bar, coffee and tea, Maria
39:48
coffee steady-state, coffee. Roasting Camp, Coffee Company.
39:52
First light, whiskey, and Cape Horn coffee.
39:55
Importers if you want to find links to those top-notch
39:58
companies had to roast westcoast.com, And if you have
40:03
questions about coffee, send them to me on Instagram at roast
40:06
West Coast and they might just end up on a future coffee,
40:10
smarter episode or you can come ask me those questions at zoom,
40:14
bar, coffee and tea in Cardiff California.
40:16
I'll be there. Friday March 11th from 9:00 to
40:18
11:00 a.m. I'm not a coffee expert and I'm
40:22
generally the person asking the questions but I'll do my best
40:25
and worst case. We can share a moment over a
40:28
good cup of coffee. Thank you for listening
40:31
everyone. This Episode of the roast West
40:33
Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced and
40:37
recorded by me Ryan Walt. I hope this show is found you
40:41
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it through
40:45
the day. And please always tip your
40:47
Baristas now more than ever and be sure to drink.
40:51
Good coffee. Hey there, if you liked this
41:26
coffee smarter episode, and you want more and more and more
41:29
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For this show, just head to roast westcoast.com to subscribe
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