Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Taylor's Trip

Transcript

Taylor's Trip · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm actually driving, so we're gonna see how that goes, whether I can do that safely and hands free, which is what I'm trying, but also whether I can do that and you can still hear me. So it's just an experiment, but I'm pretty worked up. So I'm not actually in my car right now. I'm in a rented car, so maybe this one's quieter than my car, which definitely would be too loud.
• 1:26
  But, also, that could be in my imagination, so we'll just see. And, also, we can't hear anyway, so I'm not sure how we're the ones in charge of podcast, but that's beside the point. The point is they were having a really bad week. I don't know if anyone else out there is having a really bad week or if it's just the particular days that are upcoming, but we're just struggling. We even had therapy yesterday, which was a freak show.
• 1:59
  Us, not the therapist. The therapist is a rock star, although I would never tell her that, and I have not introduced myself yet. Anyway, so I'm Taylor, and I wanna talk about these things today. One thing I wanna talk about is why therapy is so exhausting. Like, we did so much in therapy.
• 2:23
  And because our therapist is four hours away, this was one of the weeks which happens maybe, like, every six or seven or eight weeks. I'm not even sure. But every so often, we have enough points that we can stay in a hotel and for a night. And we try to do it after because that way we have some private time to process before, like, heading back to the house or whatever. Right?
• 2:49
  And so this was one of those times where we got to stay in a hotel. So we had two hours of therapy, which was super intense, and a lot went down that I didn't even know was possible. Like, she's good, you guys. She's slippery, this therapist. Except, like, it was all legit, and it's okay.
• 3:11
  But I'm watching and thinking, like, how does she do that? And is it a good thing or not a good thing? And, like, it's all okay, and everything's better. Like, I know it's a good thing. It doesn't I I'm not even coherent.
• 3:27
  It was just really hard. But then not only that, we went back to our hotel room and, like, for, I don't know, nine hours maybe, we worked in the journal. So, like, we kept doing therapy and kept writing and kept processing. And not that there's anything, like, major to disclose here, but just giving the point of like, we're really trying and making an effort. Right?
• 3:56
  Like, she's like, I totally want to doubt or doubt her or catch her not being legit or being like everybody else who has failed us or screwed us over or whatever, but I can't. Like, she's good. Like, how we ended up with her and how we ended up with the husband that we have, I it baffles me. Like, I'm not saying that they're perfect people. Like, I know that they're human, but they talk about it, and they communicate about it.
• 4:32
  And when it's our turn there, like, they're legit present with us. And so I don't know. I guess it's just getting to us because even for me and I'm not really supposed to be this cooperative. Like, that's my thing. Right?
• 4:47
  My MO or whatever. But even for me, like, I can't not believe her. I can't not trust her. Maybe that's what's making me crazy. Like, I just said that out loud.
• 5:02
  But I can't not try because that's how safe it is, and that's how much she really listens. And one thing that really got my attention yesterday in therapy was she remembered something. So, like, it was a passing moment, and no one else even probably noticed. Maybe she didn't even notice. I don't know.
• 5:26
  Maybe she did, but I did. And I wasn't out. I was just watching. But she was talking to one of the littles about something specific, which is irrelevant right now. But in the discussion, there was something referenced that we have never talked about in session ever.
• 5:49
  Like, I've made sure of that. Like, I have gone out of my way to make sure that we have not discussed it in session ever. Right? So she should not have known about it except we have talked about it in the notebooks, and we have written about it in the notebooks. And the details that she needed to know in that moment, she totally remembered and brought up and mentioned in such a way as to, like, help that little.
• 6:20
  Right? And so I was just stunned. Like, I don't have another word for it or a better way to express it. I was just stunned. And it's so unnerving or unsettling that maybe things are really okay now.
• 6:45
  Like, part of me wants to just let Dawn run. Dawn is our runner. Am I supposed to say that? Maybe I'm not supposed to say that. Part of me just want like, I wanna bolt.
• 6:56
  I wanna just let her go because that's how real this feels. And what the what? Like, I feel so naked and vulnerable. I don't know how to describe it, but it was really good. And she's able to do things I didn't know we could do and teaching us how to do it so that we can do it for ourselves.
• 7:30
  And she's not afraid of anything. Like, there's stuff coming up that am dealing with that I have not mentioned or brought up and made sure that it was not even in the notebooks because I'm sick of putting things out there and bad therapists messing that up or putting it out there and then not actually getting help with it and then being exposed to things being even harder because we set everything off by talking about stuff people didn't understand, and then they just made it worse or was not helpful or things like that. So I know I'm being vague, but it's I'm not in a place I wanna share, like, details right now. That's not what this is about. But the point is that she, I think, figured out what I was talking about, except I wasn't talking about it.
• 8:25
  But we alluded to it. They alluded to it, and I was like, you need to shut your mouth right now. I'm not supposed to be in the background threatening them while they're in therapy. Right? Like, I'm sure that's not gonna go over well, but but we cannot go there.
• 8:42
  Like, we just we cannot go there. They cannot know about these things. The rest of it is bad enough or whatever, but this we just we can't. But I don't know how to get through, like, the next week and still function much less. I don't know.
• 9:01
  Just safety concerns, except her response was just simply, like, I I'm just so stunned. Like, I feel like I'm in shock. I don't understand how to process someone just being okay and being safe and being that present. It totally is tripping me out. I just I don't know what to do with it.
• 9:27
  But she her response was just like, we could talk about it when you're ready to talk about it, but I'm not scared of it, and we can deal with this. And it's not a big deal. Like like, it didn't even faze her. Like, I'm gonna have to do something really bad just to get her riled up except not because I can't lose her. Like, it's making me behave for the first time in my life and, like, cooperate for the first time in my life because there's nothing to fight against.
• 9:58
  I don't know I don't know how to function like this or what I'm supposed to be thinking or doing. I really wanna just thank her because it's kind of changed my world, like, changed my life, like, shaking things up big time. But I can't tell her that because, first of all, I'm not gonna tell her about me. But, also, I don't wanna mess it up. I don't know.
• 10:31
  But somehow, like, her not being fazed by it has made it somehow a little bit easier that I'm not alone, I guess. And that even though I don't know what it looks like of we can make this better or I don't know what it looks like of we can make this easier or I don't know how to believe her even when she says, like, everything is okay or what to say in response to we can deal with this because I don't have those answers, but she does. I think she does. I really kinda believe her. And it's kind of exploded things internally.
• 11:22
  And we filled up an entire notebook. I don't know how you guys do your journaling, but we write in notebooks, just regular, like, school notebooks, spiral notebooks. And we filled an entire one up after therapy. So after we checked out of the hotel oh, and then, like, we slept for fifteen hours. Fifteen hours, you guys.
• 11:50
  Why is it so exhausting? All we did was sit in therapy and then sit in a chair and write. So we did that for, like, twelve hours and then slept for fifteen. What is going on? How is that a thing?
• 12:07
  Like, we hardly sleep at all ever. Like, you don't understand. Well, I guess you do understand. But we like, even when we look on the watch that shows how much we were sleeping or how many steps we took walking around the house at night or whatever, whoever was doing whatever, like, there was nothing last night, and the watch was on. It was working.
• 12:29
  Like, it shows our rim cycle and everything. And we were just sleeping. There was stuff going on inside even after we went to bed because we slept hard. So I woke up because I don't know. Oh, man.
• 12:56
  Their stuff just coming out. Like, feel like okay. Here's what it is. It's that we have passed a point of no return. You know, like in Back to the Future where they're trying to get their car set up.
• 13:08
  Right? So this is the image John gives me. Like, when they're trying to get their car set up so that it hits the lightning bolt at the exact right time, I like, we have passed that point of no return. We're either gonna be sent back to the present and everything really is gonna be okay because the therapist said so, or we're gonna be electrocuted. I'm not sure which.
• 13:31
  I'm not sure what's going on or how to spell the difference because right now, I just see lightning. It's really close to our car. That's what it feels like. So, anyway, I woke up feeling better some because we slept more than we ever do, but that also left me feeling, like, wiped out. Like, I am so sluggish and moving so slowly.
• 13:59
  I could not even steal this car and drive across country if we wanted to. Like, we can't even move that fast. So then I made a snarky comment about that to Dawn. And you know what? Like and she's good at running.
• 14:14
  Like, that's her thing. But do you know what she said? Like, she said that with this therapist and with the husband, the problem is that there's nothing to run away from because they're not chasing us. They're not being intrusive. They're not overwhelming us.
• 14:33
  They're not how does our therapist say? She says, I won't go anywhere uninvited. That's what our therapist says. And so, like, she's helping, and she's there with us. But she doesn't push anything or make things worse or add on to what we're already dealing with or stir things up in ways that are not helpful.
• 14:55
  I'm so, like, even now moving slowly today. It's 02:00 in the afternoon, and I haven't even started driving home yet for the four hour drive to get back home. Have not even started. But has the husband even one time been like, where you? What are you doing?
• 15:14
  What's going on? When are you getting back here? Like, nothing. Like, there's zero pressure. And so I think she's right.
• 15:21
  Like, we can't run away anymore because we're kind of already free. And I don't know what to do with that either because it feels like lightning. I don't know what that means to just be free like that. Also, we cried, like, a lot. I'm really sick of the crying.
• 15:43
  Some of it was, like, scary, painful crying. Some of it was, like, really sad grief crying. Some of it was, like, such a relief I couldn't help but not cry. And I'm like, why am I crying? Crying is not my job.
• 15:58
  I never once signed up to be on the crybaby list. I never once signed up to like I don't know what's going maybe we've already been electrocuted. I don't know what I don't even know how to deal with this. So that's the space I was in this morning. Okay.
• 16:19
  And then I had to find a pharmacy, to find a mailing envelope because I can't just drop off a notebook with our whole life in it without it being sealed up. Right? Because that's just that crosses the line of vulnerability into invading your own self. I was like, you should have known better than to just drop off a notebook. So I had to go find a pharmacy and find the stupid mailing envelope, get the notebook in the mailing envelope, and then go back to the therapist's office today, which takes, a half hour to get past just the panic attack of we're going the building even though we're not even having therapy.
• 17:08
  They freak out just because we're at the building. There there there's just this general panic of, oh, we're here, and we cannot physically get inside the building. So that took me forty five minutes, like, just to get upstairs to get into her office. And I didn't even have to say her see her. I didn't even have to see her.
• 17:33
  Like, she's she's not even at the office today, and we still can't get in the building. Like oh. But I did it. I got it. Dropped it off with the receptionist.
• 17:45
  I don't know. Like, I could have thrown it away, or I could have hidden it, or let Dawn tear it up or something. But it was pretty much like, okay. If this is a thing that we're gonna do like, I didn't write in the notebook. Not this time.
• 18:01
  I have once, but she doesn't know it. Well, might know it's not one of them, but she doesn't know it's me. But I gave it to the receptionist, and then we bolted bolted out of there so fast. And the next thing I had to do was go to the bank, which is never any fun. But when we moved, which Emma did not know about, and we're not talking about that today, but that was me and Dawn.
• 18:24
  And when we moved, I went to the bank and got cash to get a money order to pay for the movers to help with the furniture. Right? That's just what is done. That part was normal, except there was all this drama because the movers never showed up. And so I had to find people to help us unload and all of these kinds of things.
• 18:45
  So it sorted out. It's fine. That was ages ago. But then our car had to go to the shop, and so we had to dig things out to put in the rental car so that we could function function to get to therapy this week. So I had to move over things like the phone charger and all of that.
• 19:03
  Right? And when I was doing that, I found this money order we had never used. And so I took it to the bank. And because it was within six months, like, almost I think they said I had three more days, they went ahead and refunded it. So they put the money back in the bank, gave me some cash, and then that was that.
• 19:23
  So that's a good thing. Dropping the notebook off at the therapist's office is a good thing, except all of that together is, like, all of my spoons. Like, there is nothing I have in me left to deal with anything because therapy was so intense. Writing after therapy was so intense. And now we still have to drive home.
• 19:45
  Like, home is four hours away, and I haven't even started. And now it's 03:30 in the afternoon. Like, I don't even know what is happening to the time. Well, I mean, I know what is happening to the time. Right?
• 19:57
  But this is this is just classic. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that I'm having a really hard week for a variety of reasons and stressed out for a variety of reasons. Although, in real life, compared to lots of people, I have nothing to complain about, so I'm not trying to have, like, some kind of pity trip for myself. I'm just saying I'm having a rough week, and I'm being honest about that. Therapy was good, but it was hard.
• 20:29
  Being able to stay in the hotel so that we could work together and do some serious writing in the journal was hard was good, but it was hard. So I'm just saying I'm exhausted and out of spoons, basically, and the day pretty much hasn't started. Well, I mean, it's the afternoon, but I have a four hour trip to do to get home by tonight. So the other thing that happened today, I wanna be careful in talking about because I'm not here to be disrespectful, disrespectful, and I don't wanna start any drama. If there was an online issue, not between me and anybody, like, it really is a drama, and I'm trying to be careful because I don't want it to be drama.
• 21:10
  But this is what got me stuck out because I got really worked up about it actually. And it was an instance where I felt like someone was taking advantage of survivors, and someone was pushing the limits on what is helpful and what is offering services and what is just oppression and taking money from people who have very few resources already. And it can be such a fine line between helping people and taking advantage of them or in empowering people and making them dependent on you in some way and praying on vulnerable people. And this is a really big trigger for me. And I don't mean, like, a cultural trigger when people say they got triggered, and really what they mean is they got angry.
• 22:14
  Because that's not the same thing, and it's a total misuse of the word. But this really triggered for me some issues that I have from my background and some scenarios where this happened, and I've learned a lot from those things. And so I'm really vigilant about watching out for that. But I understand everyone has a job, and I understand that everyone needs to support themselves, and I understand that people who do clinical work need to be paid for their time. And even survivors who share videos or like this podcast trying to invest in something that is helpful and support them in those endeavors and how are able to spend times in the ways that they are able to function, I get that.
• 23:03
  I am not at all talking about that or complaining about that or saying anything about it. Like, Patreon and all those things, I get that. I know that hosting something online can be expensive. Like, I have a lot of experience in IT, and I get those pieces. So I'm not at all complaining that or disrespecting that or and I'm not at all dissing any kind of survivor host hosted venue for healing.
• 23:44
  What I am talking about is the fine line between posing something as clinical and supportive and a service that should be paid for when in fact there's not actual clinical support that is being offered, and someone is not even actually licensed or has the authority or the experience to be providing any such services. So I guess there's two things. One thing, I got triggered from my own past issues, and then I got stuck out. And so now I'm running errands like I know what I'm doing. I still have not even made it home because if I'm gonna be out, then I wanna do what I want, and what I want is that money back that the movers did not use.
• 24:49
  But the other piece is just I wanna give, I guess, some unsolicited advice, they would say, is the phrase. I wanna give some unsolicited advice to people who are survivors to discern carefully where they're seeking support. Like, when we're talking about the stuff we've been through and the kinds of interactions that we've dealt with, like, you have to be really careful about boundaries. Like, it's a thing. And I know I know in our system, we've had two, Sasha and Cassie specifically, who have gotten themselves into messes from not having boundaries or having such poor boundaries that we actually ended up, like, in the same kinds of messes we were thought we were trying to get out of.
• 25:49
  And I'm not cool with that happening anymore. And so I just feel very protective of that. And of survivors who think they are trying to get help, make sure that you're doing that in a place that is safe and appropriate that really can offer help and really has the credentials and the appropriate format for offering that help. And there's lots of ways this shows up. Like, there are lots of different groups and lots of different social media venues for seeking support, which is a great thing because it makes it so accessible for so many people.
• 26:31
  But there's also some discernment needed that the people you're following and the people you're paying attention to and the people that you're supporting and the people you're uniting yourself with are people who are well and healthy. And I don't mean integrated. I don't mean finished. I don't mean perfect. I just mean that they have your best interest in mind and that you're not just sacrificing pieces of yourself or giving up your own resources for subpar help or low quality care.
• 27:17
  Like, there's a lot of choices out there. Okay. So while we're at it, let's talk about boundaries for a minute. Right? Because I'm kind of one of the enforcers for that.
• 27:28
  It's a way help protect the system as a whole and the body that you share. Boundaries are way more simple than you think. The problem when we get it wrong is that those of us who grew up without any boundaries and just being violated over and over again, we either think it's okay for people to continue violating us or we think it's okay to violate other people, and neither those are true. Right? So what happens with dissociation is that because there were no boundaries and there's so many violations and we can't stop what is happening to us, we put the walls up that should be our external boundaries on the inside.
• 28:17
  And then there's, like, castle walls between all of us, but a free for all for whatever is done to the body. Right? That's so messed up. Not our fault, but it's messed up. And so what we have to do as we work together is get some of those walls down and use them to build the walls on the outside.
• 28:37
  But even then, we don't want only walls on the outside because then we can't because if we're overly rigid, that's still not healthy boundaries. Like, there needs to be space between us and other people, but we can't be so isolated and shut down that we're not actually interacting with the world around us. That's kind of a big deal. So there there are extremes between having no boundaries and having too rigid of boundaries. One is when we feel like we can't protect ourselves at all, and one is when we're trying too hard to protect ourselves.
• 29:12
  The important thing is to have healthy boundaries like doors or gates or fences where we can protect ourselves, but we can also let in good. If we only build up walls around ourselves, like if we're using castle walls for example, and we move them from the inside to the outside to protect the system better, then the problem becomes that we have pretty much put ourselves under siege. So no good can come in, but all the bad is still stuck on the inside. Right? Nothing can come in or out because there's no doors.
• 29:48
  And so then we just under siege, and that's not cool either. Not really any better than there being no walls and us being under attack all the time because what we need for healing and for functioning and for just being real people is nurture, and we need attention and connection with others. We need nourishment, whether that's emotional or physical or mental or spiritual or whatever that means to you. There has to be good coming in. And if you only have walls up, there's no good coming in.
• 30:26
  And so you need doors or gates or something on the outside to let in good, but still the walls or fences to keep bad out. Right? So does that make sense? And then instead of giving pieces of yourself away, part of having good boundaries is paying attention to what you're giving away and what you're getting back. With good boundaries, there are ways to express or share or give away the pieces you want to say or do or share or give, but without also being taken from.
• 31:08
  Does that make sense? So, for example, just to make it neutral and put the story back on me, our therapist totally lets us text or email anytime we want. It's not a big deal. We have that permission. We have that freedom, which is a great thing.
• 31:26
  Right? But she's also still a human being. So just because we text or email does not mean that she's going to respond right away. And sometimes she might not respond at all, but we talk about the things later. Because for us, what we need is to be able to reach out and connect with her and know that she's still there or to say, hey.
• 31:47
  I have to give you this piece before I forget, but we can talk about it in session. I have permission to put that out there. We have permission to connect with her in that way, but we also know her boundaries, that she is a human. And that just because we're connecting with her doesn't mean she doesn't have a real life outside of just our world. So when we do connect with her in that way, we don't necessarily expect that just because we text her, it's gonna be an ongoing conversation every time.
• 32:19
  Or the same thing just going to session. When we go to session, she is all there. She is totally present with us. She's focused on us. She is listening to us.
• 32:29
  She is there with us, which makes a big difference, and that's a big deal because we've had therapists who are not like that. We've had therapists who played on their phones the entire session. I am not kidding. We've had therapists who never even shut the door while we were in therapy. And, like, we've had therapists we've had therapists who talked about their own stuff or other things the whole time, and we never even got a chance to talk.
• 32:56
  We've had therapists who worked on other stuff while we were trying to get the courage to talk. Like, just because we're being quiet doesn't mean there's not stuff going on inside. So that's an example where she provides for us, like, a safe place where we can be and anything goes. Like, she lets us tell her anything, and I mean anything. Like, that's what I was talking about this morning or what I was trying to share earlier that, like, nothing has fazed her.
• 33:23
  And we've given her some big pieces or at least hinted at them. And there are things that I've never told anyone that I have let them share with her, and still, she is she's still there, and she lets us keep coming back and says that we can keep coming back as long as we need to. Like, she's proving herself, like, so present and so there for us. But at the same time, like, when our session time is up, we still leave. Like, she has other people she has to see during the day.
• 33:57
  And when our time is up, our time is up. That doesn't mean that our connection ends, and it doesn't mean that anything is wrong or that we did anything wrong. Like, there's no drama there because when we are with her, we get to fully be there. So her yes means yes. But, also, she can say no.
• 34:19
  She's very busy and has been very generous to give us two hour sessions every week. That's a really big deal where we live. And so we can be super grateful for that, and we can enjoy that or use that time wisely or or not if that's what we need that day. But when our time is up, it's time to go because there are other people waiting. Right?
• 34:43
  Or the same thing of, like, all of us inside have to take turns because everybody wants to see her. Everybody needs time with her, and we have to share and take turns like that just is. So boundaries are a good thing and is part of what keeps it healthy. But when they're healthy, they're flexible and they're open.
• 35:07
  And flexible, and they're open. And rather than being walls that lock you inside or just crumbles of rock that let everything in, good boundaries are like fences, and there's gates and doors and things you have control over, and that other people have ways to seek permission. So that's what makes it good and healthy. And you have to use some discernment. I don't know a better word for it, but some discernment in choosing what pieces you wanna give away or where you get support or who you share different parts of yourself with. So these things can guide some interactions like so maybe you can get the doctor to talk about it all more specifically and whatever the real words are.
• 35:58
  But what I'm saying is that you've gotta use some discernment and knowing how to keep yourself safe. And one of the things about that is discerning what are good ways to get support and healthy ways to use your resources and friends to help improve your life while also improving others. And in fact, that's, like, one legit way to see who are really good and safe friends because it's mutual. Meaning, like, you may help them out when they're having a hard day, but they also help you out when it's your turn to have a hard day. Like, they're there for you in that way.
• 36:42
  The same thing with the groups online. If there are groups who have good structure in place for safety and you feel comfortable with, that's great. But do they also let you have good days, and do they also let you ask questions? Or do you only or is it always only bad stuff? Or even just social interactions.
• 37:06
  Like, people, stop kissing your friends. Just don't kiss your friends. Just because someone IMs you doesn't mean you're going to need to be with them forever. Or just because just because someone pays attention to you does not mean that they're your friend. And just because someone says nice things to you does not mean that they really care about you.
• 37:36
  Like, it's more than that. There's more to it than that. And when you do find someone with whom you might be interested in, like a relationship of some sort, it will unfold naturally, and you'll be able to talk to them about it, and they will be able to talk to about it. And you'll be able to talk about it together and navigate the conditions in which you feel okay in that relationship. Like, what makes you feel safe?
• 38:01
  What do you need for them? What are your limitations? These are conversations you should have with someone that you say that you're interested in romantically or otherwise. Your relationship will be healthier if you are talking about these things. If we know all that, then why isn't the same thing true when you're getting help online?
• 38:21
  Even when people talk about email therapists or the online therapist, there's two major companies that do that messaging. There's a lot more that are video only. But because of our own issues about videos, we don't do the video counseling. But there's two other major ones, and one of them one of them makes it very easy to get a therapist or change your therapist if you're not clicking well with them, but it's only a business model. Like, there are not actually clinicians who are in charge of that company.
• 38:54
  They hire therapists, and those therapists are licensed, but there's no vetting of the therapist, and there's no support for the therapist, and the therapists are barely paid. Like, it is entirely a business model. You sign up and pay a monthly fee, and then the therapists are only paid, like, by the word or a percentage of the word. And certain things aren't even counted, and there's no way to tell if they have been cheated or not or if they got all their words counted, and there's no actual clinical oversight or clinical review of how best to care. Like, it's not a clinical community of how best to care for both the therapist and the clients.
• 39:41
  And then the other one is a little bit trickier, and getting through support, it takes a little bit longer. But it's because it's a clinical community, and the therapists have been vetted, they're good therapists, and there's lots of choices of therapists. And you can still change your therapist if you're not comfortable or request a change. But the people who own the website and the people who cover the app and all those things are clinical people. So one is a business model and one is a clinical model.
• 40:13
  So I guess what I'm saying is these online groups or or different ways online support to find support are very similar. There are some places where it is very clinical based, meaning that the people who are helping have researched or they're actually licensed or they're survivors who know and they have people's best interest in mind and they are focused on helping people. And there are others who are only trying to make money and who are only a business model but without actual approved or appropriate clinical information. I don't know. It just really concerns me.
• 41:01
  And on a day when I had no spoons left by, like, 09:30, I really didn't know how to handle it. And so I posted about it on my page, and what I appreciated, like, you guys are amazing. What I loved about this was that everyone could discuss it, giving different sides and talking about the different aspects of it and trying to figure out what was going on, but they were entirely, entirely respectful of each other. And they even were prompting for some compersion from the poly culture, and compersion is one of the words that is sort of involved in that culture, and it has to do with just being happy for other people who are happy instead of, like, the whole crab theory, like, instead of the whole crab theory where there's nitpicking and trying to pull each other down and jealousy and fighting and bickering. Like, just be happy because other people are happy and support the happiness of others and just love, love, love, love, love.
• 42:04
  Glad people are happy and appreciate that and support that. And you can feel this same concept of conversion in some of the online groups where people are just supportive of other people's progress. Like, in the groups that are healthy and good, if you post because you have a bad day, people are supportive and responsive to you. Right? But in the same groups that are healthy and good, if you have a good day, they support that too, and you're allowed to have successes and little therapy wins or whatever it is that you need, even if it's a positive thing, then that's supported too.
• 42:48
  Those are the healthy groups. The unhealthy groups are where everyone is only struggling and things are only bad and things are only depressing and there is only drama, that's not conversion. Conversion is when you're supported and people are happy because you're happy or people are thrilled when you're doing well or when things are going well. It's just a full circle kinda thing. There's this mutual support of other people's happiness.
• 43:23
  Even when it's not your thing or your turn or your time or whatever, it's about the whole experience for everybody. Right? So I feel like the same thing applies when we're talking about online therapy or when we're talking about different ways to get support. Part of it is that it's just boundaries. So talking about boundaries again, like, someone's yes means nothing if they can't also tell you no when they need to.
• 43:50
  I've blabbed a lot about a lot of things, but whatever. There you go. That's what I have to share. I hope that makes sense. I'm sorry I got on a tangent.
• 43:59
  Now it's, like, 5PM. I don't even know what's going on. I'm not even halfway home yet. So I didn't mean to hijack the podcast today, but it felt really important to me to just talk about some protection issues and kind of enforce some boundaries of paying attention to what you're getting involved with and the implications of that and how to keep your system and your body safe. And I guess the last thing that I wanna say is that those of you who are still looking for good therapists for yourself and your system, keep looking.
• 44:36
  Keep trying. Don't give up. Trust your gut. Trust your intuition. Listen to yourself.
• 44:44
  Listen to the others inside. When there are red flags or someone is not comfortable for some reason, there's probably an appropriate reason why. And it doesn't even matter what that reason is right now. Just let them go. Quit.
• 45:00
  Cancel the appointments. Whatever. I know that we get a bad rep sometimes for messing up schedules, for causing problems, and that the others who do more of the fronting are not always impressed by our behavior. But there's a purpose for it, and there's a reason, and you need to do your job to keep your system safe. But that being said, when you do find a good therapist and you do finally land somewhere safe, stay put.
• 45:30
  Stay there. Work it. Let them help you. You have fought for so long to find this help right now finally. And when you get it, listen to them and let them help you.
• 45:44
  That's all. Thanks.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together.