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Zenith Irfan on Being the First Pakistani Female Motorcyclist to Ride Across Pakistan · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
0:09
Speaker 1: Ashley Jerdano, and today I'm joined by the first female
0:13
Speaker 1: Pakistani motorcyclist to ride across Pakistan. Welcome to the show,
0:18
Speaker 1: Zennith Irfan. I'm so excited to have you here.
0:22
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Ashley. I'm so happy we started
0:25
Speaker 2: a few years ago and now I'm back again.
0:28
Speaker 1: It's so great to reconnect with you again almost four
0:31
Speaker 1: years later. I guess ah, yeah, I can't wait to
0:36
Speaker 1: chat all about your trip in your seven y CC Honda.
0:40
Speaker 1: But you're tuning in from Lahore right now and in Pakistan,
0:45
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, like, what is Lahore like? Like bring
0:49
Speaker 1: us into your world. You said that there's a festival
0:52
Speaker 1: going on now I've never been. I'd love to, Yeah,
0:55
Speaker 1: paint a picture.
0:58
Speaker 2: So I live in one of the largest cities in Pakistan.
1:01
Speaker 2: We have at least twenty five to thirty million people
1:04
Speaker 2: in one city, so it's crazy, and we have people
1:10
Speaker 2: from all across income groups and fairly many bikers now,
1:15
Speaker 2: you know, fairly more female bikers now, so we see
1:18
Speaker 2: that trend coming along also. So we have a festival
1:22
Speaker 2: which was banned because it's called basant and the reason
1:26
Speaker 2: for it being banned was because the festival rever was
1:31
Speaker 2: around flying kites and the string of the kite would
1:34
Speaker 2: be plated by glass. And what would happen is that
1:37
Speaker 2: when the loose strings would come on the road, they
1:38
Speaker 2: would cut throats of many motorcyclists. So what would what
1:42
Speaker 2: would happen to? Yeah, they would have be a lot
1:44
Speaker 2: of debts. People would fall off the roof trying to
1:47
Speaker 2: fly the kite and cut another opponent's kite. So they banded.
1:52
Speaker 2: After all this gruesome pictures went viral and they were like,
1:55
Speaker 2: there's not going to be any kite flying. But now
1:58
Speaker 2: after twenty five years they said, okay, we allow it,
2:02
Speaker 2: but only for three days and you have the kite
2:06
Speaker 2: b Q are approved. And you know, it was a
2:09
Speaker 2: huge system behind approving it. So now everyone's gone crazy
2:13
Speaker 2: because this is something that's happening after years. It's everyone's celebrating.
2:17
Speaker 2: When I was coming back from the gym, I took
2:19
Speaker 2: a dtour just to see what's happening and they were
2:22
Speaker 2: literally dancing in the middle of the road. They didn't
2:25
Speaker 2: care about the traffic. Everyone was dancing to dole and
2:29
Speaker 2: you know, Pakistani and Indian music, so you know, it's
2:31
Speaker 2: a start of spring. There's a lot of festivity in
2:34
Speaker 2: the air. So as you can see when I'm wearing
2:36
Speaker 2: Pakistani clothes, I'm not in my usual biker wear because
2:40
Speaker 2: you're supposed to wear something Eastern and I'll be riding
2:43
Speaker 2: my bike, but I have to be careful because you know,
2:45
Speaker 2: those ky strings can be very dangerous. So one of
2:49
Speaker 2: the most funniest thing is that the police department asked
2:52
Speaker 2: us to install a rod in front of the bike,
2:55
Speaker 2: so it's like maybe like a ten inch rod in
2:58
Speaker 2: case this string comes and it off. So the bike's
3:02
Speaker 2: looking now, it's looking so funny. But that's something my
3:06
Speaker 2: more cycle. You know, I have a two hundred now
3:09
Speaker 2: from the seventy, so I upgraded to a two hundred.
3:13
Speaker 1: When you rode your bike, you went from Lahore all
3:16
Speaker 1: the way north to the Chinese border, right, And I
3:20
Speaker 1: would love to know more about the different regions of
3:22
Speaker 1: Pakistan and like in terms of geography, landscape, scenery, different cultures,
3:29
Speaker 1: things like that, what did you see on this trip
3:33
Speaker 1: that you were on and what would we expect as
3:35
Speaker 1: visitors to see?
3:38
Speaker 2: Well, a lodge to begin with, I don't even think
3:42
Speaker 2: like a week is enough to explore Pakistan because of
3:45
Speaker 2: how big this country is and you know, and most importantly,
3:49
Speaker 2: how diverse it is geographically. So when I started, and
3:54
Speaker 2: this was like ten years ago, when I was like
3:56
Speaker 2: twenty eleven years ago, I'm thirty one now. Member when
4:01
Speaker 2: the night before that, I was about to leave for
4:03
Speaker 2: Conjura Pass, which is one of the highest, not the highest,
4:08
Speaker 2: but one of the highest motorable passes in the world.
4:11
Speaker 2: I was scared because I only had a seventy CC.
4:14
Speaker 2: I didn't even know about motorcycles to begin with. The
4:17
Speaker 2: only thing I knew was that right slow, take it easy,
4:21
Speaker 2: and just be fully attentive on the road. So I
4:25
Speaker 2: was very scared and I barely slept, which is not recommended.
4:29
Speaker 2: I left the after a few hours, I left for
4:32
Speaker 2: the road and I remember when so we have to
4:36
Speaker 2: pass through gd Road, which is called the Grand Trunk Road.
4:39
Speaker 2: It starts from Billy and ends still Cabul. It's a huge,
4:44
Speaker 2: very long road. And when I went on the road,
4:48
Speaker 2: there were a lot of truck drivers and they wouldn't
4:50
Speaker 2: care about motorcyclists, let alone a female biker like me
4:54
Speaker 2: who is so young. And they would honk, and that
4:56
Speaker 2: was the person that I was scared off the very
4:59
Speaker 2: sharp sound of the truck horn. And then I was
5:04
Speaker 2: only going at sixty kilometers per hour, So this was
5:06
Speaker 2: like very slow because my bike was very very very
5:09
Speaker 2: very small, like it was a commuter motorcycle. It wasn't
5:13
Speaker 2: even an adventure motorcycle. And then after like eleven hours,
5:17
Speaker 2: I think I covered three hundred kilometers, which is so slow,
5:22
Speaker 2: but for me that was an accomplishment because I had
5:24
Speaker 2: made it to Islamabad. So we have to pass from
5:27
Speaker 2: Lahore Islamabad and then from Islama onwards, which is the
5:31
Speaker 2: capital of Pakistan, you go towards the mountains, which is
5:34
Speaker 2: another two to three day journey. So like that, I
5:37
Speaker 2: had small milestones in during my journey which I ticked
5:41
Speaker 2: off in my brain and I was like, Okay, if
5:43
Speaker 2: I can ride this much, I think I can go
5:45
Speaker 2: another two hundred. If I can ride this much, I
5:47
Speaker 2: think I can go another one hundred. So like that's
5:50
Speaker 2: how I motivated and pushed myself. And as the minute
5:54
Speaker 2: you leave Islamabad, I think only like the one hour end,
5:58
Speaker 2: you'll be like welcomed with green pastures, green plateau mountains
6:03
Speaker 2: they like. Some of them are plateaus and some of
6:06
Speaker 2: them are highlands. And after every I would say, one
6:11
Speaker 2: hundred kilometers, the scenery changes, and that is the most
6:13
Speaker 2: beautiful thing about Pakistan. And so does the language and
6:17
Speaker 2: the food and the people. And of course I was
6:21
Speaker 2: not born and bred hair I was born in the UAE,
6:24
Speaker 2: so for me it was very For me, it was
6:27
Speaker 2: the culture shock. Also, like I didn't know my own country,
6:30
Speaker 2: I was able to connect with a lot of Pakistanis
6:32
Speaker 2: and that's when I knew that Pakistan is much more
6:35
Speaker 2: than the major cities. You know. We have a lot
6:37
Speaker 2: of small towns and villages and valleys that people some
6:41
Speaker 2: of them are not even on the map, you know,
6:43
Speaker 2: and people did not even hear of them before. And
6:46
Speaker 2: I never knew when I was going to this, you know,
6:49
Speaker 2: I was going through all of this that I would
6:52
Speaker 2: create a statement in Pakistan. So you have to understand.
6:55
Speaker 2: For me, this was more like a spiritual journey for
6:59
Speaker 2: me to connect with my father, who I did not
7:01
Speaker 2: know who he was. And I would never have imagined
7:05
Speaker 2: that it would leave such an impact because what I
7:08
Speaker 2: was doing was something no one had ever heard of before,
7:11
Speaker 2: not even men were doing this, So it was so
7:14
Speaker 2: crazy for people to see this, you know, like imagine
7:17
Speaker 2: like a small like a young girl going on a
7:20
Speaker 2: Like I had my rucksack and I didn't even like
7:22
Speaker 2: half of it was torn. I had no money, I
7:25
Speaker 2: was a student, you know, so it was like really
7:28
Speaker 2: raw and real adventure. When I came back, that's when
7:32
Speaker 2: I realized, after posting photos that Okay, what you've done
7:35
Speaker 2: is you know, I mean, you've changed the way people
7:39
Speaker 2: perceive adventure, and you've changed how women I looked at.
7:45
Speaker 2: So I was like, Okay, scary, I guess, so this
7:48
Speaker 2: is my past now, yeah, this is my part now.
7:50
Speaker 2: So I mean, that's what I have to explain the
7:52
Speaker 2: entire emotions behind the first journey.
7:56
Speaker 1: For sure, and growing up in the UAE. How did
7:59
Speaker 1: the I guess, lifestyle and culture different there than in
8:04
Speaker 1: Pakistan because some of the foundation that you had to
8:08
Speaker 1: have this idea to go on this trip came from
8:11
Speaker 1: growing up there, Am I right?
8:14
Speaker 2: Yes? So I when I was in it. First of all,
8:18
Speaker 2: if I talk about religion, let's say I am of
8:21
Speaker 2: course born Muslim, and when I was in Yue Islam
8:25
Speaker 2: was very straightforward. It was only after I came back
8:28
Speaker 2: to Pakistan, I realized that people have different perceptions of
8:32
Speaker 2: how a Muslim woman should look like. So in the UA,
8:35
Speaker 2: it was okay for me to wear jeans and a shirt.
8:38
Speaker 2: But when I shifted to Pakistan seventeen years ago, I think, yeah,
8:42
Speaker 2: it was like still taboo. You know, people were not
8:45
Speaker 2: very open. Things have changed now Gus were skirts, sleeveless.
8:49
Speaker 2: You can wear whatever you want. It really doesn't matter
8:52
Speaker 2: because of how modern we have become as a nation.
8:55
Speaker 2: But I'm speaking like way before, you know, way before
8:59
Speaker 2: even social media existed, and that was the first shock
9:02
Speaker 2: for me. And secondly, when I started writing more cycles
9:06
Speaker 2: for me, it wasn't like, hey, look at me, I'm
9:09
Speaker 2: a woman riding a motorcycle. It was more like, you know,
9:13
Speaker 2: I had to. I was about to enter college, we
9:16
Speaker 2: weren't doing really well financially, and the public they weren't
9:19
Speaker 2: any proper public transport systems, so I had to really
9:23
Speaker 2: learn how to ride the bike in order to be
9:26
Speaker 2: more mobile and do a lot of things independently rather
9:29
Speaker 2: than relying on someone. So it was only when I
9:32
Speaker 2: was like I remember very clearly when I was learning
9:35
Speaker 2: how to ride the motorcycle from my brother. First of all,
9:38
Speaker 2: he would scold me a lot, you know, by this,
9:40
Speaker 2: I like that, and why are you making mistakes? And
9:43
Speaker 2: then second of all, I remember people staring at us
9:47
Speaker 2: like what's happening, Like okay, he's teaching her, you know.
9:50
Speaker 2: Some of them were even laugh at us from a
9:53
Speaker 2: far distance. So it was when I saw how people
9:57
Speaker 2: reacted to my journey and my thinking is when I realized, Okay,
10:02
Speaker 2: Bakstan is a very different place and I have to
10:04
Speaker 2: be careful, you know, I don't want to hurt someone,
10:07
Speaker 2: and I have to be I have to maneuver very carefully.
10:10
Speaker 2: So it was difficult, but traveling helped me blend in
10:14
Speaker 2: more and understand the country more. You know. I feel
10:17
Speaker 2: traveling is the best education you can give yourself.
10:19
Speaker 1: Of course, absolutely, it's yeah, super powerful. Learned so much
10:25
Speaker 1: and inspire other people as you've done. When did you
10:32
Speaker 1: start writing? So you were mentioning around college and then
10:35
Speaker 1: your brother was teaching you. Was that the first time
10:38
Speaker 1: you started writing.
10:40
Speaker 2: Yes, I started writing when I was like sixteen seventeen,
10:44
Speaker 2: I think I was in late sixteen, and I live
10:48
Speaker 2: in a very I live in an army controlled area.
10:52
Speaker 2: It's called Cantonment, So it was easy for me to
10:55
Speaker 2: write here because they weren't many people, and those that
10:58
Speaker 2: were there were okay. But when people reacted very differently
11:03
Speaker 2: when I went outside of Cantonment, So when I was
11:05
Speaker 2: writing in public spaces, that's when things get gone a
11:08
Speaker 2: little bit, you know, difficult for even me. And I
11:12
Speaker 2: started writing, I think it was two thousand and twelve
11:16
Speaker 2: or thirteen, but I really really started writing actively by
11:21
Speaker 2: the start of twenty fourteen. I think I was more
11:23
Speaker 2: used to the roads. And that was another tricky part,
11:26
Speaker 2: you know, because when I was going out, you were riding, okay,
11:30
Speaker 2: you're following on rules, you were in proper gear. But
11:33
Speaker 2: it was you know, the way people reacted, like maybe
11:36
Speaker 2: in cars they would honk at you, they were tad
11:38
Speaker 2: called you, they would come in front of your motorcycle,
11:41
Speaker 2: and even guys on other motorcycles would whistle at you.
11:44
Speaker 2: There was something that I had to really get used to,
11:46
Speaker 2: you know. It took me some time and it was
11:48
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable. Of course for me as a woman. There
11:51
Speaker 2: were many times when I had to rethink if I
11:53
Speaker 2: should be doing this again and about my safety. So yeah,
11:57
Speaker 2: but I was able to do it, of course.
12:01
Speaker 1: Amazing, and I bet that changed the way that you ride,
12:04
Speaker 1: Like I'm riding more sort of defensively in some ways
12:08
Speaker 1: to keep yourself safe.
12:10
Speaker 3: I imagine, yes, of course, like I have to think
12:16
Speaker 3: ten more time as a woman or a more cycle
12:19
Speaker 3: than a man would would do.
12:21
Speaker 2: Like I don't know how to explain it. And I've
12:23
Speaker 2: had this sentiment even come across from foreign riders who
12:26
Speaker 2: come here, you know what I mean. One of my friends,
12:29
Speaker 2: Rosie Gabriel, she's a Canadian biker. She married my friend.
12:33
Speaker 2: Actually they met at my birthday party. I remember ad
12:37
Speaker 2: she was here in Pakistan for a while, and I
12:40
Speaker 2: remember she telling me that it's very It's the same
12:43
Speaker 2: for us in Canada. When I enter a showroom, a
12:45
Speaker 2: more cycle showroom, they would judge me that I wouldn't
12:48
Speaker 2: be able to handle a bigger bike like an eight
12:50
Speaker 2: hundred or a twelve hundred. But I know that I
12:54
Speaker 2: can handle it. So even I'm looked very differently as
12:57
Speaker 2: a female biker in Canada. Was really I thought that
13:01
Speaker 2: so only in Pakistan. She's like, no, it's everywhere, you know,
13:03
Speaker 2: it's so rare. So I was like, oh, you know,
13:06
Speaker 2: so that also changed my perception about woman writing and
13:09
Speaker 2: how defensive and how much over explanation. You know, we
13:12
Speaker 2: have to be very over explanatory, so you know, I mean,
13:16
Speaker 2: but I guess the love for more cycles, you know,
13:20
Speaker 2: is so great that we all are like, okay, we'll
13:24
Speaker 2: manage these small things totally, totally, totally.
13:30
Speaker 1: So one of the reasons you became beyond riding was
13:33
Speaker 1: for independence, and there was another very significant reason, which
13:37
Speaker 1: was your father. How did your father's dream of travel
13:40
Speaker 1: influence you.
13:43
Speaker 2: Well, there's a very dark joke that we do in
13:46
Speaker 2: the family that if it wasn't for my father dying,
13:49
Speaker 2: I mean, it was so dark. I know that's a joke,
13:51
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be where I am. But in a very
13:55
Speaker 2: wider span of things, if I look at things from
13:58
Speaker 2: macro lens, things happen for a reason. You know, if
14:01
Speaker 2: people pass away, there is a reason why someone pass
14:04
Speaker 2: you know, dies at a particular time in life. And
14:08
Speaker 2: I feel like I just when I when I found
14:10
Speaker 2: out about my father's dream and how much he loved traveling,
14:14
Speaker 2: he could never do anything. He never even left Pakistan.
14:17
Speaker 2: I mean, he was never able to leave Pakistan. So
14:20
Speaker 2: that all of that really broke my heart. But there
14:23
Speaker 2: was this one thing and a voice in my head
14:25
Speaker 2: that I would always say that dreams don't die. I mean,
14:29
Speaker 2: even if someone goes away, you continue to live, you
14:33
Speaker 2: have your dreams can continue to shape the world even
14:36
Speaker 2: after you pass on. And I guess that is that
14:39
Speaker 2: thought that I carried forward when I was growing up,
14:42
Speaker 2: even if I have to give up. And there were
14:43
Speaker 2: many times when I really wanted to give up. Because
14:46
Speaker 2: I'm now I'm a social content creator and I'm social
14:49
Speaker 2: media content creator. I travel, I work with different brands.
14:53
Speaker 2: Sometimes it does get overwhelming, so there are times when
14:56
Speaker 2: I want to quit. But the reason why I started.
14:59
Speaker 2: My father's sam always keeps me going. And I also
15:02
Speaker 2: carry his photograph in my wallet, you know, at times
15:05
Speaker 2: when I have to, I always do that. So that
15:08
Speaker 2: was one of the one of the major reasons or
15:11
Speaker 2: the catalyst as to why I started doing what I do.
15:14
Speaker 2: But along the way, I realized when I was passing
15:18
Speaker 2: through all of these valleys and young girls would look
15:21
Speaker 2: up to me, especially online now, you know, I mean,
15:24
Speaker 2: we have so many young girls who have started writing scooters.
15:28
Speaker 2: I realized how much there is a need for a
15:31
Speaker 2: role model like me. You know who is brown skin.
15:35
Speaker 2: He's very shervark and he's like I am right now
15:37
Speaker 2: and she can speak or do win. So that's when
15:40
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, you know that that gives me
15:42
Speaker 2: another reason to not give up. So that also gives
15:45
Speaker 2: me the reason to expand my journey internationally, which I
15:48
Speaker 2: plan to do so so that I can carry that
15:50
Speaker 2: message forward, you know. I mean this is why I
15:53
Speaker 2: always say that whenever I'm online on Instagram posting, I'm
15:56
Speaker 2: always like, don't see me as a celebrity or in influence,
16:01
Speaker 2: see me as you and that you can do it
16:03
Speaker 2: too if I can.
16:04
Speaker 1: You know, yes, that's great advice. How has it changed
16:10
Speaker 1: like when you went on this trip and now many
16:14
Speaker 1: many years later, social media looks different, riding looks different.
16:19
Speaker 1: I imagine there are more Pakistani motorcyclists out there. What
16:23
Speaker 1: does it look like now? How have you seen change
16:26
Speaker 1: occur because of this?
16:29
Speaker 2: So there was recently. When it has happened in Pakistan is
16:34
Speaker 2: that we have a very like diplomatic and a friendly
16:38
Speaker 2: relationship with China, which is all over the news. So
16:42
Speaker 2: what the Chinese company did is that they started promoting
16:46
Speaker 2: a lot of scooters in Pakistan. So these scooters are
16:50
Speaker 2: very easily you can it's very use it friendly, you know.
16:53
Speaker 2: I mean you just switch it on and you can
16:56
Speaker 2: just like brisk the x rator the breaks here, and
16:59
Speaker 2: it's so easy for the girls to learn that there
17:02
Speaker 2: has been a huge number of girls on the road
17:05
Speaker 2: now that are riding them. LI still like you change
17:09
Speaker 2: for me. And I would often ask my brother, you know,
17:12
Speaker 2: like because I have people say this to me in
17:14
Speaker 2: my inbox too, But you know, I humble myself, so
17:17
Speaker 2: I would always ask my brother, do you think our
17:19
Speaker 2: journey that we took together, you know, the first journey
17:22
Speaker 2: and then of course the later journey has shaped this.
17:25
Speaker 2: And He's like yes, because you know, no one ever
17:28
Speaker 2: thought of it, and now who is the only one
17:31
Speaker 2: who's doing it? Still it's you. And then I'm like, okay,
17:33
Speaker 2: you know, I'm so proud of all of these girls
17:36
Speaker 2: that are finding their way in their own finding their
17:39
Speaker 2: way in their own quiet manner. I would say, in
17:42
Speaker 2: being independent, because there is still this stigma that a
17:47
Speaker 2: girl should be you know, there is in many many
17:52
Speaker 2: I would say, factions of society that she should or
17:54
Speaker 2: she should not be riding. Also, you'll be surprised to
17:58
Speaker 2: learn that, and I made a video bought it that
18:01
Speaker 2: over here women usually sit with their legs to the side,
18:06
Speaker 2: so they wouldn't sit with their legs open when they're
18:08
Speaker 2: riding behind the motorcycle. And I was very curious to
18:12
Speaker 2: know as to why this happens. Initially, I thought it's
18:16
Speaker 2: because it's like frowned upon if you open your legs
18:20
Speaker 2: and you sit like a guy behind the bike. But
18:23
Speaker 2: it turns out that because you were colonized by by
18:27
Speaker 2: the British, we would they would do a lot of
18:30
Speaker 2: saddle horse riding, and that's how it kind of like
18:34
Speaker 2: was ingrained in our society. And that's why everyone now
18:38
Speaker 2: all the girls sit to the side like this sleg princesses,
18:41
Speaker 2: which is super unsilf. Yeah, I had no idea. I
18:45
Speaker 2: think it's like a cultural thing or in Islamic thing,
18:48
Speaker 2: you know, like I was under the impression, but it's not.
18:53
Speaker 2: It's because during the Victorian era, modesty was something that
18:56
Speaker 2: was like the pillar of every single thing, and she,
19:01
Speaker 2: the Queen Victoria, ordered she would sit like with her
19:04
Speaker 2: legs beside on the horse, and that kind of like
19:06
Speaker 2: came into our culture. And I made a video bout it.
19:10
Speaker 2: It got a million views and everyone was like fighting
19:13
Speaker 2: in the comments section, saying how she is being immodest,
19:18
Speaker 2: this is so wrong. She rides motorcycles and now she's
19:21
Speaker 2: trying to spoil our society. And I don't know. And
19:24
Speaker 2: then there are the other group of people that are
19:26
Speaker 2: saying she's right because you're supposed to sit on the
19:29
Speaker 2: bike like a biker. You're know, there's a way, they're ergonomics,
19:35
Speaker 2: sorry to these things on how you're supposed to be
19:38
Speaker 2: sitting on the motorcycle. So I mean you see that too.
19:41
Speaker 2: But now since the girls are sitting on the scooters
19:43
Speaker 2: with both of their legs like close together, I guess
19:46
Speaker 2: that's okay. But that's first step. So that's the current
19:49
Speaker 2: environment over here in Pakistan. You know, the step has
19:52
Speaker 2: been taken, and slowly, slowly people are accepting it. And
19:56
Speaker 2: I also don't get stayed upon now more. Yeah, I don't.
20:02
Speaker 1: Right, is there are the scooters coming in mainly to
20:05
Speaker 1: the main cities or are they also coming out into
20:09
Speaker 1: the countryside a little bit like in the small towns
20:12
Speaker 1: at this point.
20:15
Speaker 2: So if you speak of Balochistan, which is a very
20:20
Speaker 2: I mean risky area, way way conservative area, I would
20:25
Speaker 2: say no. But if you speak about and if you
20:29
Speaker 2: if you think Kabaka, which is the area's bordering Afghanistan,
20:34
Speaker 2: that's like a plane no. I mean, you can't even
20:37
Speaker 2: be there with any cameras. It's skaty, you know, I
20:41
Speaker 2: have to admit. But if you if you speak about
20:45
Speaker 2: Gilgit Baltistan, which is near the Chinese border. Although those
20:50
Speaker 2: areas which you might have often heard a lot of
20:52
Speaker 2: Americans come here, you know, in Skardu Hunza, the answer
20:56
Speaker 2: is yes, there is more acceptance. In fact, they are
20:59
Speaker 2: much more liber real and open minded than us in
21:01
Speaker 2: the cities. So there are a lot of girls now
21:04
Speaker 2: that they arrived there. But we have to understand that
21:07
Speaker 2: Pakistan's again not only these major cities. There are so
21:11
Speaker 2: there's so many people and so many women in the valleys,
21:15
Speaker 2: and I don't think that they will be accepting this
21:19
Speaker 2: anytime soon, which is like I don't know if I
21:22
Speaker 2: would say sad, but it's just like it's gonna take
21:24
Speaker 2: a lot of time, you know, I think, yeah, right, right, yeah.
21:30
Speaker 1: Sometimes these changes seem to happen in the city centers
21:34
Speaker 1: first in some cases, and then sort of spread out
21:37
Speaker 1: to these smaller towns and stuff, So it should be
21:40
Speaker 1: really interesting to see what happens going forward.
21:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm of course very curious to see as
21:50
Speaker 2: to what happened. But I'll be honest with you, I'm
21:52
Speaker 2: very careful when I'm riding in these areas, like I
21:55
Speaker 2: try not to provoke anyone or of course, because you
22:01
Speaker 2: have to respect their traditions and customs absolutely.
22:06
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's talk about your trip. Yeah, you have
22:11
Speaker 1: this dream, you come in start learning how to ride.
22:15
Speaker 1: What was the inspiration for the route and was the
22:19
Speaker 1: biking community in Pakistan supportive of the stream or did
22:22
Speaker 1: they even know about it?
22:26
Speaker 2: Well? The route I when I left for Honjurapas. First
22:30
Speaker 2: of all, I didn't even know there was a pass
22:33
Speaker 2: called Konjas. I'll be honest with you, I didn't even
22:35
Speaker 2: know it was something of a big deal because I
22:39
Speaker 2: did not know anything about Pakistan. I just I didn't
22:43
Speaker 2: even see the map. I think all I knew was
22:46
Speaker 2: set up supposed to go to Slamabad and then I
22:48
Speaker 2: have to go, like I would follow the boards, you
22:50
Speaker 2: know that the sign boards, and I, of course, my dream,
22:57
Speaker 2: like I said earlier, was the first catalyst to it
22:59
Speaker 2: was my father's dream. It wasn't really my dream. You know.
23:03
Speaker 2: I was like when I was on the motorcycle, I
23:06
Speaker 2: knew that this is where I belong. There was that
23:08
Speaker 2: emotion in me, so I was like, okay, let me
23:11
Speaker 2: just try doing this, you know, for him. And along
23:14
Speaker 2: the side, I was able to find my dream, and
23:16
Speaker 2: which is movement, being free and of course understanding what
23:22
Speaker 2: human lives are like. I love storytelling, I love exploring
23:25
Speaker 2: and you know, seeing how people live their dreams and
23:29
Speaker 2: what makes them sad and happy. So this was something
23:32
Speaker 2: that I really wanted to do. And I'm so grateful
23:35
Speaker 2: and privileged also to be able to understand that at
23:38
Speaker 2: a very young age, you know, to know my purpose
23:41
Speaker 2: because a lot of people are still exploring it in
23:44
Speaker 2: their thirties and foraries, and it's a journey, of course,
23:47
Speaker 2: and I still feel I haven't found it yet, but
23:50
Speaker 2: I knew what I wanted to do. And along the way,
23:53
Speaker 2: of course, I was a shock to a lot of people.
23:57
Speaker 2: People like like I told you earlier, never expected a
24:00
Speaker 2: Pakistani woman. A lot of them thought I was in
24:03
Speaker 2: Pakistani to begin with. Some of them said that are
24:06
Speaker 2: you from Sri Lanka? Are you Indian, because are you this?
24:10
Speaker 2: Are you that? But it was only later that they
24:12
Speaker 2: realized that I am Pakistani when I was started speaking
24:15
Speaker 2: the language, and I so the biking community. When I
24:19
Speaker 2: posted my pictures online, there was a lot of hate,
24:23
Speaker 2: which was the biggest shock for me because I was
24:26
Speaker 2: not expecting the community to be so negative towards my journey.
24:34
Speaker 2: Of course, the biking community at that time were only
24:36
Speaker 2: these fifty six year old guys. We've been writing for
24:38
Speaker 2: a long time. They never got the fame, and now
24:41
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, a girl comes up and she's
24:43
Speaker 2: getting all these likes, followers, and she's getting famous. She's
24:46
Speaker 2: getting called to podcasts like these like I am on
24:50
Speaker 2: so what about us? You know, what about our story?
24:54
Speaker 2: So I and then of course there were a lot
24:56
Speaker 2: of backlash, and you then realize that, you know, not
25:00
Speaker 2: everyone's going to be supportive in your journey. You have
25:02
Speaker 2: to find your own way. There's two ways to do this.
25:06
Speaker 2: A you give up, or B you silence them with
25:09
Speaker 2: writing more, posting more pictures, triggering them more. So that's
25:16
Speaker 2: what I did. I kind of like made them more
25:18
Speaker 2: angry by posting more pictures. I really believe in action
25:21
Speaker 2: over words. So I didn't say anything when I was
25:24
Speaker 2: just writing. But now things are so different, you know,
25:27
Speaker 2: like things are changed, and we have girls, like so
25:31
Speaker 2: many girls writing more cycles. They even have their own
25:34
Speaker 2: followers and pages, so it's it's changed.
25:37
Speaker 4: Of course, not a week goes by that someone doesn't
25:41
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25:45
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25:51
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25:54
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Speaker 4: way you can help out too. I produced a book
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Speaker 4: last year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding One oh one.
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Speaker 4: You can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
26:41
Speaker 4: or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades
26:45
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27:10
Speaker 1: Amazing. But there was a misconception that you completed the
27:13
Speaker 1: ride solo. And how did this come about? Because I
27:15
Speaker 1: know you said you were, like, I don't There was
27:17
Speaker 1: no you did it, not solo, but there was this
27:22
Speaker 1: misconception that you did, yes.
27:25
Speaker 2: Yes. What happened was I posted my pictures online and
27:30
Speaker 2: people assumed without me even saying it, like I never
27:34
Speaker 2: said it, that was solo. I never wrote any caption
27:37
Speaker 2: and all of those pictures still exist on my page.
27:40
Speaker 2: And I remember there was this one news host, I
27:44
Speaker 2: think she was a journalist. She somehow took some of
27:47
Speaker 2: my pictures and she wrote down and headlined like a
27:52
Speaker 2: girl goes solo or something, and that kind of got
27:55
Speaker 2: picked up by other news outlets too, and she never
27:58
Speaker 2: approved it for me. So she did this all without
28:01
Speaker 2: my knowledge, and I was never able to tell my
28:03
Speaker 2: side of the story that no, it wasn't solo. My
28:06
Speaker 2: brother was on another bike. I was on another bike
28:08
Speaker 2: is and they're pictures of us too, Like, I was
28:11
Speaker 2: very surprised as to why she didn't see those pictures
28:14
Speaker 2: because I did post so many of them, so I was,
28:18
Speaker 2: you know, and because they really like to send sensationalize
28:22
Speaker 2: things and add a little drama to it. So I
28:25
Speaker 2: really laid it down along the lane. I did make
28:27
Speaker 2: videos and I said that, hey, you know, this isn't solo.
28:30
Speaker 2: I was, of course the first female to do it,
28:31
Speaker 2: but I wasn't solo. I had my brother along with me.
28:34
Speaker 2: I had even my mentor aDNA, and his name is
28:37
Speaker 2: So of course I have done solo rides, you know.
28:41
Speaker 2: I just recently came from a solo ride to Peshawer
28:43
Speaker 2: like I do solo rids now, but that specific rider
28:46
Speaker 2: was not solo. And what again a few years later,
28:51
Speaker 2: there was a filmmate on my life called Moricycle Girl,
28:55
Speaker 2: which was released in Pakistan, and even then the director
28:59
Speaker 2: had to say that I was solo for fictional purposes.
29:03
Speaker 2: So then again I was always like caught in between
29:06
Speaker 2: explaining to people, Hey, you know, it's not solo, or
29:09
Speaker 2: this ride wasn't solow this ride was. And now I'm
29:13
Speaker 2: done explaining. I'm like, whatever you want to assume, it's okay.
29:17
Speaker 2: I guess that's why I go. I've just stopped explaining.
29:20
Speaker 1: Now you're like, I tried my best.
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tried. I tried my best. I tried.
29:29
Speaker 1: What have you been up to since that trip? Like
29:32
Speaker 1: it has changed your life? I can see like it's
29:36
Speaker 1: completely changed your life and the trajectory, and I'm wondering,
29:40
Speaker 1: you know what, what how has this trip changed you?
29:45
Speaker 1: Opportunities that have come up or other trips things like that.
29:51
Speaker 2: Well, you know, everything changed. A lot of my trip
29:54
Speaker 2: was something that I would like to really speak about
29:57
Speaker 2: is because I was growing up. I they fell in
30:02
Speaker 2: love and this is so out of your you know question,
30:05
Speaker 2: but no, it changed me. It did change me in
30:09
Speaker 2: a way because I was young and when I had
30:12
Speaker 2: my heart broken, the only way that I healed was
30:17
Speaker 2: by wearing my helmet and going out on a motorcycle tour.
30:20
Speaker 2: That was the only way I held from a heartbreak,
30:23
Speaker 2: and as someone in her twenties, I just did not
30:27
Speaker 2: see any other option for me. It was it would
30:29
Speaker 2: have been a nightmare if it was if I would
30:31
Speaker 2: have been in my room like I am right now.
30:34
Speaker 2: So a lot of my healing journey also like it's
30:37
Speaker 2: very difficult for us women. I think this is an
30:40
Speaker 2: international problem when it comes to dating and finding the
30:43
Speaker 2: right guy. This is something universal, you know, everywhere. So
30:48
Speaker 2: it was like for me, even that aspect of mine,
30:51
Speaker 2: which which I really don't talk about because it's so personal,
30:55
Speaker 2: that changed me. You know, as a woman, I saw
30:58
Speaker 2: myself grow from a girl to a woman on two wheels.
31:02
Speaker 2: So my more Cycle was much more than just a
31:05
Speaker 2: more Cycle ride. It was a ride not only for Pakistan,
31:10
Speaker 2: it was a ride for women internationally. It was a
31:13
Speaker 2: ride for myself, for my healing journey, for my father.
31:17
Speaker 2: There were so many reasons for me to not give up.
31:20
Speaker 2: And I think you can also see that that it
31:22
Speaker 2: has changed me in many ways. And plus I do
31:25
Speaker 2: now I was talking to you before the podcast, if
31:28
Speaker 2: I should mention or not. But I do plan to
31:31
Speaker 2: do something, you know, like I am planning something that's
31:34
Speaker 2: in the next few years. That I plan to do
31:37
Speaker 2: is of course take this journey much more internationally in
31:41
Speaker 2: a global space, and this time with a different angle,
31:45
Speaker 2: and that is to ask people what their dreams are
31:48
Speaker 2: rather than just focusing on me, you know, like I
31:50
Speaker 2: would like to know what their dreams are and what
31:53
Speaker 2: would they feel not what are their reasons of not
31:58
Speaker 2: giving up. I think that's going to be my sole
32:00
Speaker 2: motivation for doing this store, and also of course for
32:04
Speaker 2: to set an example. That is something that I will
32:07
Speaker 2: I would love to do, so, you know, with heartbreak
32:11
Speaker 2: and then mending myself on the road, trying to underneath
32:14
Speaker 2: the helmet and then coming back and now it's become
32:17
Speaker 2: my work, you know, like I work full time as
32:20
Speaker 2: a traveler. This has become everything I love more circles.
32:24
Speaker 2: I don't even see myself quitting, you know, like ever,
32:28
Speaker 2: I think I'll be an old grandma on a bike.
32:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yes, and you're certainly certainly not alone
32:37
Speaker 1: in that. I was interviewing Elsbeth Beard, one of the
32:41
Speaker 1: first women to ride across right, and she part of
32:48
Speaker 1: the reason. Yeah, that she did mention that for a tour,
32:54
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. But she started her trip because of
32:58
Speaker 1: heartbreak and noraally showing mac here from Itchy Boots. I
33:03
Speaker 1: just read her book recently and she started her trip
33:06
Speaker 1: because of heartbreak too, So this is something that it's
33:11
Speaker 1: a theme. Yeah, it's I guess a good way to
33:14
Speaker 1: work through things. And yeah, but it would be awesome.
33:18
Speaker 1: Are you gonna see Elsbeth when she's here or I
33:20
Speaker 1: guess she might be busy doing her tour.
33:23
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I plan to see her because the person
33:26
Speaker 2: hosting her his name is Moyne Khan a different agenda,
33:29
Speaker 2: and I of Moyne is a very good friend of mine.
33:32
Speaker 2: Even if he says no, I'll forced us, and as
33:35
Speaker 2: I'm coming now you know, I'm coming just for a
33:38
Speaker 2: quick chat, you know, so I plan to. I plan
33:41
Speaker 2: to ride also during May because that's when the road's
33:44
Speaker 2: open and it's much more it's like summertime in the north,
33:48
Speaker 2: so you never know. Moyn would be like, why don't
33:50
Speaker 2: you join us because I'm ready, Like I'm so ready
33:53
Speaker 2: to meet her.
33:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah, for oj pad listeners,
34:00
Speaker 1: you could check out the podcast with el Sabeth Beard
34:03
Speaker 1: as well. That's a great follow up podcast in this
34:07
Speaker 1: one or down the road. But so you talked about
34:12
Speaker 1: how the significance of your trip on women in Pakistan.
34:16
Speaker 1: What was that experience like going through small villages and
34:20
Speaker 1: encountering young girls and they were seeing what you were doing.
34:23
Speaker 1: Was it kind of shocking for them or what was
34:26
Speaker 1: your experience interacting with young girls on the trip or
34:31
Speaker 1: even after the trip. I guess whatever.
34:36
Speaker 2: Their experiences, of course shocking. They don't have a lot
34:40
Speaker 2: of access to basic necessities. They come from Whey, I
34:43
Speaker 2: would say, underdeveloped twillages. So of course, imagine you're just
34:49
Speaker 2: playing out in front of her house and then in
34:51
Speaker 2: comes a girl on the red like not even a girl,
34:54
Speaker 2: like some sort of a person on her bike. She's
34:57
Speaker 2: riding a red biking jacket. And then as soon as
35:00
Speaker 2: she takes out her helmet, you realize, oh my gosh,
35:04
Speaker 2: she's a woman, you know, like I've seen that curious
35:07
Speaker 2: eyes when I'm stopping by their villages. I've seen those
35:10
Speaker 2: girls come up to me and they just like shocked
35:14
Speaker 2: and they would touch you, you know, on your face
35:16
Speaker 2: or maybe on the bike they would just see if
35:19
Speaker 2: you're real. And in order for me to experience that,
35:22
Speaker 2: I realized two things. One is that you are definitely
35:27
Speaker 2: setting a statement. And secondly is how privileged I am.
35:31
Speaker 2: You know, like I can speak English right now. I
35:35
Speaker 2: was educated, Like I got a degree, you know what
35:38
Speaker 2: I mean. I have all these opportunities for myself, you know,
35:44
Speaker 2: I was. I would say I had a geographical luck,
35:46
Speaker 2: which is something a lot of people talk about. And
35:49
Speaker 2: then there's this girl who might have been even more
35:53
Speaker 2: talented than me, she might be even more have more skills,
35:56
Speaker 2: and yet she's here in a value she might not
35:59
Speaker 2: have that luck or privilege or chances or opportunities, and
36:03
Speaker 2: that kind of like breaks my heart, but it also
36:05
Speaker 2: kind of reframes my mind into acknowledging my privilege status
36:11
Speaker 2: and then acknowledging that you can do what you do
36:13
Speaker 2: because of a lot of reasons. Your what my mom did,
36:17
Speaker 2: you know with empowering me, and she had a huge
36:20
Speaker 2: hole to play as a Pakistani mother when it comes
36:23
Speaker 2: to allowing me to dream, you know, just as simple
36:27
Speaker 2: as that. So that was experience and I still I
36:30
Speaker 2: mean I plan to go back again to the mountains
36:33
Speaker 2: in May June. So this time I definitely would like
36:36
Speaker 2: to talk more to the girls. The boys, of course, yes,
36:39
Speaker 2: but mostly the girls, you know. And you never know,
36:42
Speaker 2: you might seen YouTube episode on it. Oh, yes, for sure,
36:49
Speaker 2: I plan to.
36:52
Speaker 1: Great stuff. Yeah, it must be interesting for them because
36:57
Speaker 1: it's one thing to see somebody coming in like a
36:59
Speaker 1: four to them coming in, which I'm sure Pakistan has
37:03
Speaker 1: quite you know, a lot of travelers and motorcycles and
37:05
Speaker 1: overlanders coming. Maybe not a lot of overlanders, but I
37:10
Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like a decent amount.
37:14
Speaker 2: It's like it's getting yeah, no, we had so yeah.
37:18
Speaker 2: I By the way, one of the reasons why we
37:21
Speaker 2: couldn't speak yesterday was because I was invited to this
37:25
Speaker 2: event by the British High commission. We had a ball
37:29
Speaker 2: apparently in Lahore by the British High Commissioner to Pakistan.
37:34
Speaker 2: So when I went there, I realized there are a
37:36
Speaker 2: lot of foreigners here. There's Scottish people, a lot of people.
37:41
Speaker 2: They were Germans, Germans, a lotmost Germans love traveling. So
37:46
Speaker 2: every day now I come across someone who is a foreigner,
37:49
Speaker 2: you know. So it's become very very common to see them,
37:54
Speaker 2: and some of them even came in their overlander trucks,
37:58
Speaker 2: you know, with their campingmen, and you see a lot
38:01
Speaker 2: of that. But you see a lot of more cyclists
38:03
Speaker 2: to females. You know what Moyen khanak I was mentioning earlier.
38:07
Speaker 2: He brings in a lot of girls, like so many women,
38:10
Speaker 2: so many of them, and he hosts them over here
38:13
Speaker 2: and they're riding. They have these I forgot the name
38:17
Speaker 2: of the tour. Maybe some of the people who are
38:20
Speaker 2: listening can even go through his website a different agenda,
38:24
Speaker 2: just a small promotional call shout out to him, you know,
38:27
Speaker 2: in case they ever want to ride in Pakistan, they
38:29
Speaker 2: can do that. So he has this whole itinerary planned
38:32
Speaker 2: and you see that happening. You know, there was a
38:36
Speaker 2: time when Pakistan was ignored and now it's becoming or
38:40
Speaker 2: on the way to become one of the top tourist destinations.
38:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially like I've been seeing a lot of content
38:48
Speaker 1: coming out of the North for trucking and hiking and
38:51
Speaker 1: of course there's very high elevation stuff going on and
38:55
Speaker 1: climbing and mountaineering.
38:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
39:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been seeing sort of like the social content
39:03
Speaker 1: increase in Pakistan. Just what's coming out of there. Although
39:07
Speaker 1: maybe it's because I'm interested in it and now I'm
39:09
Speaker 1: seeing more.
39:10
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it does plan to come to
39:12
Speaker 2: Do you plan to ever?
39:15
Speaker 1: Yeah?
39:16
Speaker 2: I totally no.
39:20
Speaker 1: No, I'm not scared. No, I think it's gonna be amazing. Yeah,
39:24
Speaker 1: it's on our current. So yeah, what are your what
39:28
Speaker 1: are your tips for me? I would love to know.
39:33
Speaker 2: Because there's so many people coming now, it's not that scary,
39:36
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Of course it isn't because everyone,
39:38
Speaker 2: If everyone is coming, My travel tips for you would be,
39:44
Speaker 2: of course, do do well in the room? Who has Roman?
39:47
Speaker 2: The Romans? Do? Is that the correct court? You know?
39:50
Speaker 2: I would be just like there were certain travelers that
39:53
Speaker 2: came here, and I remember one of them was a
39:56
Speaker 2: female moorcyclist and she I think her name is forgot
40:00
Speaker 2: her name though, she was riding in Hunza and she
40:05
Speaker 2: posted some of her pictures and some of the things
40:08
Speaker 2: that she was wearing was inappropriate. So a lot of
40:10
Speaker 2: people were like really angry, and they were like, you know,
40:13
Speaker 2: you should have just dressed appropriately. You're in the Islamic country.
40:16
Speaker 2: And I do get the emotions and the anger behind it,
40:21
Speaker 2: but I feel like a lot of Norse is so modern.
40:23
Speaker 2: You have you have I've seen women in bikinis in
40:27
Speaker 2: hot springs in Pakistans. Oh wow, in the north. Yeah,
40:31
Speaker 2: I've seen that too, you know. And I was like
40:33
Speaker 2: for me, that was a surprise to I was like, wow,
40:34
Speaker 2: they're finally accepting it. But not only not in k
40:38
Speaker 2: that would be not allowed, but like maybe in Hunza
40:42
Speaker 2: or when things a little bit nice and okay. And
40:46
Speaker 2: so my trip would be to of course follow all
40:49
Speaker 2: the rules. You know, you don't want to make anyone angry.
40:51
Speaker 2: I do the same as a Pakistani, Like I would
40:54
Speaker 2: wear the head covering when I'm going to Quoita, which
40:56
Speaker 2: is in a Balochistan, and like I would be very
40:59
Speaker 2: mindful and of course save your money in different places.
41:04
Speaker 2: That's something I do. Like I don't carry a lot
41:07
Speaker 2: of cash on me. I would always like save it
41:09
Speaker 2: in different places so in case of something goes wrong,
41:13
Speaker 2: you know, I do have money on me like that
41:16
Speaker 2: I can get from somewhere is And of course I
41:18
Speaker 2: do not ride after sunset. That's something a rule that
41:21
Speaker 2: to follow. It's just something that I personally don't like doing.
41:26
Speaker 2: But when you are here, especially if you come to
41:28
Speaker 2: Lahore where I am. You will love it. You would
41:30
Speaker 2: be surprised on how modern this city is. You know,
41:33
Speaker 2: you'll absolutely love Pakistan. I can't wait.
41:37
Speaker 1: And I've heard that it's really great to get the Okay,
41:41
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try to pronounce it because I'm gonna
41:43
Speaker 1: stay it wrong. But the like top and pants combo,
41:47
Speaker 1: it's really comfortable to wear. That's this.
41:50
Speaker 2: It's this. This is the kamise and the comi. This
41:54
Speaker 2: is the kamiz. Yeah, this is the comiz and there's
41:58
Speaker 2: a shell war. Yeah, you will get it. I don't
42:02
Speaker 2: know why they all they all bite from everyone. It's
42:06
Speaker 2: so comfortable. That's cool.
42:09
Speaker 1: So I can get my cowar chemmis. I don't know
42:12
Speaker 1: if that's how you say it, but like loose clothing,
42:15
Speaker 1: I think that's modest is what I've read to be wearing.
42:19
Speaker 1: As a female.
42:20
Speaker 2: You will be surprised on how the girls dress here.
42:24
Speaker 2: They wear skirts, they wear every single thing you can
42:27
Speaker 2: imagine off like they do it. So it's not like
42:30
Speaker 2: you have to dress modestly. I mean it's in Lahore.
42:33
Speaker 2: It's totally fine. Everyone dresses the way they do.
42:38
Speaker 1: Good to know, good to know? What about food? What
42:42
Speaker 1: should I eat?
42:43
Speaker 2: What should I eat? You will definitely get food poisoned
42:47
Speaker 2: over here, Oh my god, once, at least once you will.
42:52
Speaker 2: I'm one hundred person sure because I know you guys
42:56
Speaker 2: are not used to eating a lot of spices. We
42:58
Speaker 2: eat a lot of spices. It's going to be really
43:01
Speaker 2: difficult for you the first three four days, and then
43:04
Speaker 2: after that you'll get used to it. Like then you'll
43:07
Speaker 2: be like I want more of it. That will be
43:09
Speaker 2: the opposite. Then you'll come back to Canada and you
43:12
Speaker 2: won't like the food here. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah,
43:17
Speaker 2: I believe it. What are your favorite dishes? What should
43:20
Speaker 2: I order? So of course you should order bianni. I
43:24
Speaker 2: don't know if you know it's that the rice dish.
43:26
Speaker 2: I think you've heard it about it before, Yeah, the
43:29
Speaker 2: biggest that's the biggest dish. We I think we shared
43:32
Speaker 2: it with India too. And you should definitely try gold gupe.
43:36
Speaker 2: I don't have you if you've ever heard it before.
43:38
Speaker 2: Those are like those two that small balls that you
43:42
Speaker 2: put in a in a sore water and you just
43:44
Speaker 2: eat it immediately. So some of those things and that
43:46
Speaker 2: might give you a bad stomach. I'm just warning you
43:50
Speaker 2: it might. But hey, you know, if you want to
43:53
Speaker 2: do some adventure, you kind of like have to risk
43:55
Speaker 2: some things.
43:56
Speaker 1: So it's so fair, yeah for sure.
43:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the tea or coffee, Yeah, it's milk tea, chi.
44:06
Speaker 1: Chi.
44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, that is something everyone is addicted to, like
44:12
Speaker 2: by now, anyone I know that is from America or
44:16
Speaker 2: Europe is always ordering chai and they're just so used
44:19
Speaker 2: to it. That's a staple food, you would say, like
44:23
Speaker 2: a staple drink. Yeah.
44:26
Speaker 1: And how is it served like sugar and milk or
44:29
Speaker 1: without or all of the above.
44:32
Speaker 2: No, So it's like there is water and then you
44:36
Speaker 2: put in the teap powder you know, like the popouder
44:41
Speaker 2: form of tea, You add milk, you let it simmer
44:45
Speaker 2: for a while, and then you put it in a
44:47
Speaker 2: cup and except to you if you want to have
44:49
Speaker 2: it with sugar or not. So you know you can
44:51
Speaker 2: have it with sugar or without, so you just have
44:54
Speaker 2: to add that at the end. So become so excited
44:57
Speaker 2: for you to come here. You know, I would like
44:59
Speaker 2: to take you on on my moort cycle.
45:02
Speaker 1: Ooh that sounds fantastic. I can't wait. I have a
45:06
Speaker 1: question for you actually for this is like an overlander
45:09
Speaker 1: question sort of. But if you're coming in the north
45:12
Speaker 1: and then let's say you're going to this sort of
45:14
Speaker 1: southern part. I've been hearing about a ferry or some
45:18
Speaker 1: fairies that are going from Pakistan to the Arabian Peninsula.
45:23
Speaker 1: Have you heard anything about that?
45:25
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, Are you talking about from Karachi, which is
45:29
Speaker 2: the largest city near the Arabian Sea. Yeah. Yeah, So
45:36
Speaker 2: basically they started it. I haven't seen a lot of
45:40
Speaker 2: videos around it and news around it lately, but they
45:43
Speaker 2: did it announce that you can take like a ferry
45:46
Speaker 2: from Karachi to Yue or Uman, so because that's right, yes,
45:52
Speaker 2: and then you can take it back. So I'm not
45:55
Speaker 2: sure if they're really doing it. You have to ques
45:58
Speaker 2: check because of the fact that we share waters with India,
46:03
Speaker 2: so you you know Pakistani India like as fighting. It's
46:07
Speaker 2: always on the news. So that is why there can
46:11
Speaker 2: be a possibility that they might have stopped it because
46:14
Speaker 2: of security reasons or restarted it. But I did hear
46:18
Speaker 2: of it and I wanted to take it. I was like, yeah,
46:21
Speaker 2: it takes spreedence of once.
46:24
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And for us it's like if we wanted
46:27
Speaker 1: to continue the journey not necessarily south, but towards Oman
46:33
Speaker 1: or the UAE. The fairy would make life a lot easier.
46:37
Speaker 1: Although I do believe you can ship out of Karachi
46:40
Speaker 1: as well, but I don't know any on that.
46:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can, you can ship from Karachi, or you
46:48
Speaker 2: can go to Iran in bunder abbas the port there,
46:51
Speaker 2: and then you can go to UE. But right now,
46:54
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't think the port Iran is like,
46:58
Speaker 2: say for secure, you know. That's why I think that's
47:01
Speaker 2: recommend Yes, No.
47:04
Speaker 1: Okay, good to know. We're always looking for ways out
47:07
Speaker 1: or ways to different places, you know. I think the
47:10
Speaker 1: route right now a lot of people are going to
47:12
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. If you're coming across Central Asia, then south
47:16
Speaker 1: maybe or to India. It seems like those are kind
47:19
Speaker 1: of the main routes that people are taking. But I'm like,
47:22
Speaker 1: I want to go to Pakistan and then go to
47:24
Speaker 1: the Arabian Peninsula. So we'll have to keep our eyes
47:27
Speaker 1: on that fairy situation.
47:29
Speaker 2: But I think there is a website. There is a
47:31
Speaker 2: website on X and I think they do have an
47:34
Speaker 2: individual website, like a page on X and an individual website.
47:38
Speaker 2: Maybe if the listeners can just type in Pakistan navy
47:42
Speaker 2: or like something like the ferry or like just use
47:45
Speaker 2: those keywords, something will pop up for them. You never know.
47:49
Speaker 1: Nice.
47:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good advice. We would want to.
47:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that's great. So you alluded to a trip,
48:01
Speaker 1: a global trip earlier, and I'm hoping my fingers are crossed.
48:05
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll be in North America, but please keep us updated.
48:11
Speaker 2: So yeah, you never know. You never know. On a
48:15
Speaker 2: scale of one to ten, maybe like at nine you
48:18
Speaker 2: never know, like ten being and coming and nine being
48:21
Speaker 2: like you know, I mean the most extreme is that
48:24
Speaker 2: the scale, So you never know that I might end
48:27
Speaker 2: up by next year. That's something that I'm going to
48:30
Speaker 2: leave it for the listeners and whoever's watching me. Maybe
48:34
Speaker 2: they could send me a message and that I can
48:35
Speaker 2: tell them personally about it, because of course, I want
48:39
Speaker 2: you to expind my journey, and what better way to
48:42
Speaker 2: do it than from the US. I think that's the
48:44
Speaker 2: best place that you can do it from.
48:47
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, I'm excited to learn more when it's the
48:52
Speaker 1: right time and follow along on your next journeys. So yeah,
48:57
Speaker 1: one more question for you. Do you have a favorite book?
49:02
Speaker 2: Yes, In fact, I'm reading it right now. It's just here.
49:07
Speaker 2: It's not my favorite book, but I can I wouldn't
49:10
Speaker 2: say a favorite book, but I can share my current read.
49:15
Speaker 1: My current read like that, it's hard to figure out
49:18
Speaker 1: a favorite book.
49:20
Speaker 2: Okay. So it's Psychology of Women. It's a very old
49:24
Speaker 2: book and it's by this author called Joanatha. I think
49:28
Speaker 2: her name is just passed away. But she spoke about
49:32
Speaker 2: gender and the things that we are seeing now. You know,
49:35
Speaker 2: we have so many genders now, of course, and we
49:38
Speaker 2: have a lot of people identifying as different pronouns, and
49:41
Speaker 2: so I was very curious to know about it, and
49:44
Speaker 2: you know, as someone who has been traveling also, and
49:47
Speaker 2: that's why I My mom had this book. She read
49:51
Speaker 2: it and what's the most surprising thing about it is
49:54
Speaker 2: that she spoke about everything in the nineteen seventies. So
49:59
Speaker 2: this author, she's like a researcher and all of the
50:03
Speaker 2: things that she said is now happening, which is like
50:06
Speaker 2: crazy with the amount of knowledge she had. And she
50:10
Speaker 2: explained a lot of human behavior and why humans like
50:13
Speaker 2: to of course identify themselves psychologically with a different gender,
50:18
Speaker 2: and what's happening in their brain. And that was very
50:20
Speaker 2: very book. But I have another book for the read
50:24
Speaker 2: for the listeners that I have. I think i've partially
50:27
Speaker 2: read through it. I haven't completed it yet. It's called
50:29
Speaker 2: The Butterfly Route. It's by Michelle and she took a
50:33
Speaker 2: motorcycle journey from Alaska to Argentina, the last town in Argentina,
50:38
Speaker 2: the Butterfly Route. And I'm a huge fan of that book.
50:42
Speaker 2: And I also have to read Zubek's new book that's
50:45
Speaker 2: coming up while away. We're pre ordered it. It's because
50:49
Speaker 2: Ever is a very good friend of mine and we've
50:52
Speaker 2: worked a lot together in Pakistan waiting for that book too.
50:55
Speaker 2: So some of these books that I absolutely love reading,
51:00
Speaker 2: currently reading and will plan to read amazing.
51:05
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to doing a book review for Overlading
51:07
Speaker 1: Journal and Eva Zoobec's new book Readers in the next Yeah,
51:14
Speaker 1: it'll be a good one. And then that you were
51:16
Speaker 1: mentioning just for the reader, The Butterfly Route is by
51:19
Speaker 1: Michelle Lampfer lamp Heir.
51:21
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, have you ever read that before? No?
51:26
Speaker 1: And I it's on my list and we should have
51:28
Speaker 1: Michelle on the podcast too. Should be fabulous.
51:31
Speaker 2: So yeah, I met her, who is instan.
51:36
Speaker 1: It must be so exciting to have so many people
51:40
Speaker 1: from all over the world come through riding motorcycles and
51:43
Speaker 1: a lot of female motorcyclists that you can meet when
51:46
Speaker 1: they're visiting, and that just must be so amazing.
51:51
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's why it makes me question myself. If
51:54
Speaker 2: they can do it, why can't I do it? You know,
51:57
Speaker 2: you know that factor. There's nothing limiting me as a
52:00
Speaker 2: woman to do what Michelle did whatever did, And I
52:04
Speaker 2: mean I'm inspired by them, especially ever because I'm in
52:08
Speaker 2: touch with her on Instagram. I see her content and
52:10
Speaker 2: I mean her National Geographics show. I'm inspired by that.
52:13
Speaker 2: I would love to have my show tool, you know.
52:16
Speaker 2: So that's something I've seen her journey, you know since
52:19
Speaker 2: because of the fact I know how for so long,
52:21
Speaker 2: because we both actually know each other for a very
52:24
Speaker 2: long time. So all of these women adventurers inspire me
52:29
Speaker 2: in so many ways. And that is why I was like,
52:34
Speaker 2: I need to get out of Pakistan. And I also
52:37
Speaker 2: should write a book, but not now. Once I'm done
52:39
Speaker 2: with more journeys. I'm not ready it. You know, that's story.
52:45
Speaker 1: The time will come and I can't wait to read it.
52:47
Speaker 1: But yeah, to have such an incredible community of female
52:52
Speaker 1: adventure writers and Overlanders is super special and I'm excited
52:57
Speaker 1: to see workers and it continues to and I'm really
53:02
Speaker 1: excited for that because there are things to still overcome.
53:05
Speaker 1: So but yeah, thank you so much for coming on
53:09
Speaker 1: the podcast and chatting with me today's and it's been
53:12
Speaker 1: so wonderful. Yeah, I'll let you get back to your
53:15
Speaker 1: kite kite festival.
53:17
Speaker 2: Yeah festival. It's happened in the morning, of course, when
53:21
Speaker 2: the sky is brighter. And now I'm looking forward to amazing.
53:27
Speaker 1: Well, thank you again for taking the time. It's so
53:29
Speaker 1: great to catch up with you. I'm sure we'll have
53:32
Speaker 1: you on again. And uh, good luck with everything going
53:35
Speaker 1: forward when we can't wait to see what's next, No problem, it.
53:39
Speaker 2: All, take care.
53:41
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to the Overlan and Journal podcast
53:44
Speaker 1: listeners for tuning in to today's episode. As usual, you
53:48
Speaker 1: know where to find us. Thanks again for tuning in.
53:51
Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time.