Latest / The Action Catalyst / The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology)

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The Ethical Imperative, with Andrew Cooper (Legal, Business, Leadership, Technology) · The Action Catalyst

• 0:00
  Stephanie Maas: Andy, I'm Stephanie Maas, how are you?
• 0:18
  Andrew Cooper: I'm well, how are you, Stephanie?
• 0:19
  Stephanie Maas: I'm good. I'll ask that super open ended
• 0:22
  question start at the beginning and tell me a little bit about
• 0:25
  you and your super interesting journey.
• 0:28
  Andrew Cooper: Sure. So I am from a small town in South
• 0:31
  Carolina called Walterboro. If you are traveling down 95 you
• 0:36
  will pass right by it. I had no idea, no concept of what
• 0:40
  intellectual property was, or even the practice of law, until
• 0:44
  I was in high school and my my father brought home a movie
• 0:48
  called separate but equal, and I became exposed to the law and
• 0:52
  what lawyers can do. And that began kind of my curiosity to
• 0:55
  the practice of law. I ultimately went to college in
• 0:58
  Washington, DC and grad school in Atlanta, Georgia, at Emory.
• 1:04
  While at Emory, I did a few internships, one with the Coca
• 1:08
  Cola Company, and that's really what started me down the path of
• 1:11
  IP really exposed me to the concept speed of innovation, and
• 1:17
  for companies like Coca Cola, Innovation is key to them
• 1:21
  staying at the head of of their their industry, and it should be
• 1:24
  something that small business owners think about as well.
• 1:28
  After leaving Coca Cola, I went to practice law at sharding and
• 1:31
  bacon in the patent litigation group. Moved from from there to
• 1:34
  UPS. I was a vice president of UPS, the chief IP council there,
• 1:39
  and worked for UPS Airlines. So my ups history was about seven
• 1:44
  years, and then I transitioned from UPS to meta platforms,
• 1:48
  which is where I am now. And I am the head of patent
• 1:51
  acquisitions. And I also do technology transactions, open
• 1:55
  source, and AI work for Meta and Mark Zuckerberg.
• 1:58
  Stephanie Maas: So not a bad journey from a boy from
• 2:01
  Walterboro.
• 2:02
  Andrew Cooper: Yes, Walterboro, South Carolina, population of
• 2:06
  5000.
• 2:07
  Stephanie Maas: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so waltersboro to Okinawa.
• 2:11
  Tell me about that.
• 2:13
  Andrew Cooper: Oh yeah. So I didn't even touch on Okinawa,
• 2:16
  but yes, when I was nine years old, around nine years old, my
• 2:19
  dad was stationed in Okinawa Japan, US Marine Corps, and so
• 2:23
  we moved to Okinawa, Japan. We were there for four years. A lot
• 2:27
  of my formative kind of relationships and and formative
• 2:32
  years were there in Japan. We stayed on base, went to
• 2:36
  Department of Defense schools, and opened my eyes to the
• 2:41
  importance of working with people from all walks of life,
• 2:45
  all backgrounds. That core value, I think, in organizations
• 2:50
  today, is really important. I also talk about this in the
• 2:53
  book, the importance of building open systems, that's
• 2:57
  organizations that are able to assimilate information from
• 3:02
  various centers of innovation and to incorporate those really
• 3:05
  quickly into products and services. The organizations that
• 3:09
  we build today in the United States tend to be hierarchical.
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  They tend to be pyramid structures, better
• 3:16
  organizations. Future organizations should be more
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  like a biological cell, where you have lots of information
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  coming in and being assimilated and worked through and finally
• 3:28
  incorporated into the organism. And those things that are bad,
• 3:32
  you kind of kick out, and those things that are good, you make a
• 3:34
  part of the system. And that really, I think, started my
• 3:38
  journey and thinking about open systems, diversity and inclusion
• 3:41
  and how to make organizations stronger.
• 3:44
  Stephanie Maas: What a very real experience. Now, if you don't
• 3:47
  mind, I'm going to ask you to kind of educate us a little bit,
• 3:50
  walk me through this idea of what is intellectual property.
• 3:55
  Andrew Cooper: Yeah absolutely. So intellectual property is
• 3:58
  really the intangibles around your business that make it what
• 4:05
  it is. So when you think about a name brand, human generated
• 4:12
  content, these are things, anything that comes out of the
• 4:15
  mind of humans can be protected in intellectual property.
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  Anything that's affixed in a medium. So if you are an artist,
• 4:26
  and you conceive of an artwork or design or a painting, and you
• 4:31
  put that onto canvas that can be protected, companies, small
• 4:38
  businesses, big businesses, they tend to focus on products and
• 4:41
  services. They tend to focus on what am I selling and protecting
• 4:46
  what I'm selling, but behind that are rights that need to be
• 4:51
  protected, and when they're not protected, you run into issues
• 4:55
  where people can steal and people can copy. So I. IP is
• 5:01
  integral. It's part and parcel of running a good business. So
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  when I worked at Coca Cola, one of the very first cases that I
• 5:07
  had to work on was an inventorship dispute, and at
• 5:11
  issue was a patent a novel gas barrier additive that Coca Cola
• 5:17
  included inside of its plastic bottles that extends the shelf
• 5:21
  life of carbonated drinks. So if you come up with this amazing
• 5:27
  container that can keep sodas really physical for a long
• 5:32
  period of time, that would be protected by the idea of
• 5:35
  patents, on the other side of that, you have trademarks, and
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  trademarks are really, really powerful because they indicate
• 5:44
  source of something really strong. Trademark is Apple, for
• 5:49
  example. So an apple, it's a fruit, right? But in the context
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  of technology, Apple is a company and a company that makes
• 5:58
  really great products, and anytime someone sees the Apple
• 6:03
  logo, though, or they see the word apple on technology, they
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  know where it comes from, and they associate a level of
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  quality with it. So trademarks are really important. And when I
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  was chief IP Counsel of UPS, one of the largest assets that sits
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  on the book of business are the brands. This, the logos, slogans
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  that indicate the source of the good, because there's enormous
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  goodwill that comes along along with it, some lesser known but
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  really, really important forms of IP today include copyright
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  with the advent of artificial intelligence, these AI systems
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  are trained on content, and content is generated primarily
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  by people. And so if you were an author and you write a book,
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  that content is protected by copyright, and so to prevent
• 6:59
  others from taking it and using it in ways that you would, you
• 7:04
  know, object to. It's important to protect those things. And
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  companies do these, they create white papers and research and
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  things like that all the time. So it's really important to
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  protect, protect that probably the least known and least used
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  form of intellectual property is, is trade secret. And trade
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  secrets can be so, so powerful their know how their
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  confidential business information that gives you a
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  competitive advantage that other companies don't have. So if you
• 7:33
  are a small business, and you have a way of collecting data,
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  and you hold that data, and no one else has that specific data
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  set, or, you know, a way of doing something that is better
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  than the way other people do it. That's a form of of knowledge of
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  intellectual property that can be protected.
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  Stephanie Maas: So if you have a sales process that is common
• 7:59
  practice in your industry that doesn't really fall under IP.
• 8:02
  Andrew Cooper: That's right.
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  Stephanie Maas: But if you have a process that's unique to your
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  firm or organization...
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  Andrew Cooper: It could be a trade secret, but it's you. You
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  do. You have a process, a sales process, that's different and
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  unique and provides you a competitive advantage that other
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  people don't have, you can protect that as a trade secret.
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  Stephanie Maas: Ok. I know right now it's kind of hot on
• 8:21
  the docket, this idea of getting rid of non competes and non
• 8:25
  solicitations.
• 8:26
  Andrew Cooper: Yes.
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  Stephanie Maas: So you don't typically hear IP being
• 8:29
  protected and non solicits or non competes. How is that a part
• 8:33
  of it? Or is it?
• 8:34
  Andrew Cooper: Yeah, I mean, non competes and non solicitation
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  are more on the side of employment law, they really deal
• 8:42
  with communications with employees that leave an
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  organization, and what they can and can't say to folks who
• 8:50
  remain inside that organization. So from a non solicit
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  perspective, you can't go and try to pull or entice other
• 8:58
  employees from where you're leaving. On the non compete
• 9:01
  side, there's, it's adjacent to IP in the sense that the idea is
• 9:07
  you have developed some, some level of knowledge that is
• 9:12
  unique to an industry. And if you were to leave a company in
• 9:18
  the same industry and go to another company that is a
• 9:21
  competitor. You may take that knowledge with you into the
• 9:25
  competitor shop and use it in a way that is is detrimental to
• 9:30
  the company that you're leaving. So there's, it's it's adjacent
• 9:33
  to IP because it does deal with know how. And there are some
• 9:36
  rules about what you can restrict from the perspective of
• 9:40
  a person that is covered by a non compete so information that
• 9:45
  is derived from working within an organization, just as a
• 9:50
  result of you being there, you've developed a level of
• 9:54
  expertise. Typically, you're not supposed to prevent someone from
• 9:58
  leveraging the. Expertise in order to earn a living,
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  especially if it's in like a market that is that's really
• 10:06
  small, like a duopoly. Let's going back to the coke example.
• 10:08
  You get Coke and Pepsi very large competitors, a non compete
• 10:13
  that is so broad that would prevent any Coca Cola executive
• 10:16
  from moving over to PepsiCo and not being able to leverage just
• 10:20
  their generalized skills as a as a lawyer or a scientist or a
• 10:24
  salesperson, those would probably run afoul and, of
• 10:27
  course, this is not legal advice, you know, you'd have to
• 10:29
  check with with the lawyer. You know, my experience has been
• 10:32
  those typically don't, don't fly, but you can narrowly tailor
• 10:37
  non competes in a way, as long as they are, you know, short in
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  duration and specific to, for example, the work that an
• 10:45
  individual has done while they were there. So if you are a an
• 10:48
  amazing research scientist that came up with some some novel,
• 10:52
  you know, containers that extend the life of sodas, you could
• 10:57
  potentially prevent that person from going to a direct
• 11:00
  competitor and working on the exact same stuff. They can still
• 11:03
  work as a scientist, they can work on other projects, but
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  typically you could, you can narrowly tailor that way to your
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  point. There been a push to change non competes at a federal
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  level. Some companies have gone too far with how they have
• 11:21
  sought to restrict the work of employees. And so it's the jury
• 11:27
  is still out.
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  Stephanie Maas: Ok, I want to talk about the book, The Ethical
• 11:32
  Imperative, Leading With Conscious to Shape the Future of
• 11:35
  Business. Give me, from your perspective, kind of where this
• 11:39
  came from, what the intent was.
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  Andrew Cooper: Sure. So in 2018 I was the vice president,
• 11:45
  General Counsel of UPS Airlines, moved to Louisville, Kentucky,
• 11:49
  and started the role. I was a position as, hey, this is an
• 11:53
  opportunity for you to take on senior leadership large
• 11:56
  organization, 20,000 employees. And then covid happened, and so
• 12:02
  I began began journaling about the challenges that my my team
• 12:06
  were going through, and strategies for helping them to
• 12:09
  regain and retain high performance through that crisis.
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  And I think it's crisis for just about everyone. And so as I was
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  doing research into like strategies that executives had
• 12:21
  used in the past. What I realized was that there are
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  really four things, four moral imperatives, that any leader has
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  to really focus on, and that's the first is to work quickly, to
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  move with speed. If you look at organizations prior to the 1970s
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  a lot of those organizations, and they were run by Silent
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  Generation, Greatest Generation, those organizations tended to
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  divest power, closer to managers, closer to frontline
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  supervisors, allowed employees to take a more active role in
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  the decisions of the life of the organization. And so that's
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  where this concept of of speed as a moral imperative comes
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  from. It actually relates to our topic of intellectual property,
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  because the rate of innovation of an organization says a lot
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  about its speed. Slow organizations tend to be less
• 13:19
  innovative. They tend to not engender or encourage the types
• 13:25
  of ideas from their employees that allow them to be avant
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  garde, to allow them to be at the front of the pack, and it
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  shows in the number of patents that they file many other ways.
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  The second moral imperative is really to lead with inspiration
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  to connect the work that we are doing to some benefit to the
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  world. That is a goal that that we can all share in
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  organizations like Coca Cola and their work on on water
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  replenishment organizations like bombas and their work on
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  providing socks to the homeless. These are critical pieces of the
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  employee engagement puzzle. Really, it's a puzzle that we
• 14:10
  have to solve. And so when I was working through the pandemic, I
• 14:15
  realized that by being a part of Operation warp speed, that was
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  the Trump administration's push to deliver medicines and
• 14:22
  vaccines around the world. It gave our employees a North Star.
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  It was something that said, Hey, we are part of a movement to
• 14:30
  save the world. The whole idea, the slogan, it's a patient, not
• 14:34
  a package, was really motivating during that time. The third
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  moral imperative is community investment. Again, going back to
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  organizations prior to the the 1970s what we found were
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  organizations that invested in communities heavily. So Hershey,
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  Pennsylvania would not be a place without Hershey.
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  Bentonville, Arkansas would not be a place without Walmart, Coca
• 14:58
  Cola, even Atlanta. Not be the type of place it was without
• 15:02
  Coca Cola and Chick fil A and some of the other companies that
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  have really opened up their their organizations to
• 15:08
  addressing needs of communities. And what we find is that
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  organizations that identify a place that they want to
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  transform and go about a strategic vision in doing that
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  if, even if it's public, or even if it's a public, private
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  engagement or just a private movement, doesn't matter. The
• 15:28
  outcomes of those communities tend to be better than, for
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  example, places like Walterboro, South Carolina, where there's
• 15:34
  been economic distress for for for a long, long time. So the
• 15:39
  the Community Investment becomes a really critical piece. And
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  then finally, the last imperative is openness. Building
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  open systems is really what inspires organizations, people
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  within organizations, to do their best work when they
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  believe that even if there are disappointments, I know that
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  there's a level of meritocracy built in. I am being heard in
• 16:00
  the organization that the leaders care about me in the
• 16:05
  organization, these key pillars of being an organization that's
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  open makes employees perform better. What I have found, just
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  as an employee, sometimes pair, can be a sense that we are
• 16:21
  creating walls between each other, where walls don't need to
• 16:27
  exist. And so when we segment ourselves, rather than creating
• 16:32
  the places where we can connect, there's a different feeling. So
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  building bridges, opening doors, creating places where people can
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  connect and embrace shared humanity become really
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  important, and I think a lot of it stems from my experience
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  through the pandemic. Because the truth is, it seemed like the
• 16:52
  world changed, but the world didn't change. I think we
• 16:55
  changed. I think people, since we were all going through the
• 16:59
  same thing at the same time everywhere, people started
• 17:01
  asking questions like, do you really care about me? Does this
• 17:03
  organization care about me? I know the things that are really
• 17:07
  important to me now they're things like, like family and and
• 17:10
  so we've just we had this re complete reset on the things
• 17:13
  that matter. And so what I'm bringing forward is that that
• 17:17
  caring has to be first and foremost, and when people, when
• 17:21
  you lead with caring, when you lead with systems that are
• 17:24
  welcoming, that create connections rather than create
• 17:27
  barriers, you tend to have more effective and high performing
• 17:31
  teams.
• 17:32
  Stephanie Maas: Yes, that's huge.
• 17:34
  Andrew Cooper: I do want to go back a little bit to
• 17:36
  operationalizing some of the things that we talked about from
• 17:39
  an intellectual property side. How do I go about like best
• 17:43
  practices in securing my intellectual property rights? A
• 17:47
  few pointers, a few strategies for small and medium sized
• 17:50
  businesses, first conduct audits, regularly review and
• 17:54
  document the IP assets that are available to you and talk about
• 18:00
  patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, even designs,
• 18:03
  right? So patents, common utility and design, flavors,
• 18:05
  designs. You know how something looks, so look at your talk to
• 18:10
  your team again within the context of an open system, bring
• 18:14
  people together regional whiteboarding sessions actually
• 18:18
  going to folks who you know within your organization that
• 18:21
  have great ideas and say, Hey, we want to just sit down and put
• 18:25
  some of these ideas on paper. That's the first step in going
• 18:29
  about securing those rights that you're looking to secure. And do
• 18:34
  it regularly, like if it's quarterly or yearly, that kind
• 18:37
  of thing, and keep a book. Sometimes in the old days, when
• 18:41
  I started practicing law, people would ask, Hey, where's your
• 18:43
  where's your IP book, you know, where's your patent book, where?
• 18:46
  And it's just a record of those ideas that have been captured.
• 18:51
  The second thing is to to register your your intellectual
• 18:55
  property. Now, there's some, there's some IP that you have
• 18:58
  protection from the minute that it's created. So copyright, for
• 19:03
  example, you create a story. Say you're a content company, and
• 19:07
  you have story writers the minute that they put pen to
• 19:11
  paper and they create that story. There is copyright
• 19:13
  protection, but there are other ways of registering that IP. You
• 19:18
  can register a copyright once a work is completed with the
• 19:21
  copyright office can file a patent application to protect an
• 19:25
  invention. These are things that you should do because they
• 19:29
  create enhanced protections for you. Sometimes they are notice
• 19:34
  protections that puts the world on notice that you are the owner
• 19:38
  of this thing. And sometimes there are there enhanced damages
• 19:42
  protection. So if someone does steal your IP or copies your
• 19:47
  work, you are able to get, you know, sometimes, three times the
• 19:51
  amount of damages as a result of you just registering your your
• 19:55
  intellectual property. I thirdly, I really encourage
• 19:59
  small. Businesses to engage in NDA practice, and that's non
• 20:03
  disclosure agreements. Create a standard non disclosure
• 20:07
  agreement and use it routinely. Put NDA provisions in your
• 20:11
  employee agreements when they onboard and ensure that they are
• 20:15
  they're time bound, and they're reasonable. They relate to the
• 20:18
  work that the person is doing, not just with employees, but
• 20:21
  also with vendors. I should also say when you have vendors,
• 20:23
  they're coming onto your property. Make sure vendors have
• 20:26
  NDAs, because you know your vendors walking through they you
• 20:29
  know people might have confidential information sitting
• 20:32
  on, uh, tables or desks, and it's very easy these days to
• 20:36
  just snap a picture with your cell phone of confidential
• 20:39
  information. So make sure that your NDAs are in place and are
• 20:42
  protecting your information in that way, monitor and enforce
• 20:46
  your IP rights. An IP right is no good if it is not protected
• 20:52
  and enforced. So if you have copyrights, ensure that you are
• 20:58
  sending cease and desist letters when you believe someone is
• 21:00
  infringing, that you are engaging with competent counsel
• 21:04
  that can negotiate either the takedown of things that are
• 21:08
  infringing, ensure that you are looking in policing. Because
• 21:11
  what ends up happening is there's a theory in the law that
• 21:15
  you know if you don't protect your rights, you lose your
• 21:17
  rights. So if you, for example, know that someone is infringing
• 21:22
  your trademark and you don't do anything to enforce it. Well, if
• 21:25
  you go for a sufficient period of time without doing it, you
• 21:27
  may lose some protections. So really look at monitoring
• 21:32
  enforcement programs. The last two things, I would say, one,
• 21:36
  educate your employees. So training employees on the
• 21:40
  importance of IP and best practices in protecting it can
• 21:44
  go a really long way to ensuring that you have a strong brand in
• 21:48
  the minds of consumers, and that you're also keeping the value
• 21:52
  high on your products and your confidential information, your
• 21:57
  data, your systems. We at UPS when I was working there, had
• 22:02
  routine trainings on this stuff. It also goes a long way in just
• 22:06
  ensuring that people know when they have created something
• 22:10
  that's worthy of protection. And I've seen this many times.
• 22:12
  You've got people out in the field, they're working in an
• 22:15
  operating environment, a warehouse or a factory or
• 22:17
  something, they come up with some fix to a problem that is
• 22:22
  just a practical fix, because they are, you know, necessities
• 22:25
  of mother of all inventions, they have created a unique,
• 22:28
  efficient way of doing it, and nobody knows about it, except
• 22:32
  two or three managers inside that that factory, and it could
• 22:36
  be a solution that every factory would could use and create
• 22:40
  economies of scale, and we just don't, we just don't know about
• 22:43
  it, because employees aren't educated in like who to contact
• 22:47
  when they come up with something that's that's good, like that.
• 22:49
  And I guess the the last thing I would say is implement security
• 22:52
  measures, use, use technical measures like encryption and
• 22:57
  access controls to safeguard your IP and your data. This is
• 23:03
  really important when it comes to trade secrets, because trade
• 23:07
  secrets, if they are, if they're not protected, they can, they
• 23:10
  can be lost. Typically, if you lose a trade secret, the damages
• 23:16
  are so incalculable, they can't be they really can't be
• 23:19
  recovered. Because the idea is, only a few people know the trade
• 23:23
  secret, and if more people know the secret, then it's really,
• 23:26
  it's invaluable anymore. You know, though, the ultimate trade
• 23:29
  secret many people think about is, like the Coca Cola formula
• 23:31
  for Coca Cola, right ups. We also had, we had a system called
• 23:36
  Orion. It's the reason UPS package cars only turn make
• 23:39
  right turns it so it's there's there.....
• 23:41
  Stephanie Maas: Are you allowed to talk about that? Did you sign
• 23:43
  an NDA?
• 23:43
  Andrew Cooper: No, I cannot tell you why, but there's really
• 23:49
  important safeguards that you can put in place to protect that
• 23:53
  kind of stuff. Creating processes that block access to
• 23:58
  things that are critical to the organization are important for
• 24:02
  the value of the IP itself and your ability to recover if
• 24:06
  anything happens as a result.
• 24:07
  Stephanie Maas: Super helpful. This is fascinating. Does it
• 24:10
  get old to you?
• 24:11
  Andrew Cooper: No, it doesn't. It doesn't get old because every
• 24:14
  single day, people are creating new and amazing things. That is
• 24:18
  our nature as human beings. We are just so we're tinkerers by
• 24:23
  nature, and as a result, I will always have a job. So I'm very
• 24:28
  grateful for that. But we are also, we are also very greedy as
• 24:32
  humans. We want to protect those things that we that we create.
• 24:36
  We want to generate value from them. And so that also is a
• 24:40
  motivator. Many, I know, many companies that provide cash
• 24:43
  incentives to their employees when they come up with great
• 24:45
  ideas or they get a patent. There's also the ability to
• 24:50
  generate revenue as a result of of just having intellectual
• 24:54
  property. So there are companies that do nothing but license the
• 24:57
  things that they have created. So there's. The licensing
• 25:00
  revenue that come from, can come from it. And of course, you know
• 25:03
  from a trademark perspective, just the mere fact that you know
• 25:06
  there are brands, if you see their logo, you know that it's
• 25:09
  going to be a huge check associated with it. Creators
• 25:13
  across all industries are starting to realize brand value
• 25:17
  has been really, really important, and something that
• 25:20
  can bring a lot of financial reward. So I continue to be
• 25:25
  enamored with the field that I'm in with. The revolution in AI,
• 25:30
  we are seeing a new burst of creativity and innovation
• 25:33
  happening, and that is also very interesting to see how things
• 25:36
  are developing and changing in such rapid succession. There's a
• 25:39
  book by a man named Azim Azar. It's called the exponential age,
• 25:43
  and he talks about how we are moving so fast that we will that
• 25:48
  society will almost be unrecognizable. 1520, years from
• 25:51
  now, we'll look back and say, My gosh, do you remember when we
• 25:54
  didn't have tires that don't have air in them? And do you
• 25:58
  remember when we had cars that were combustion? We don't have
• 26:00
  cars with combustion anymore. I mean, heck, I can remember back
• 26:02
  when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I had, you know, one of
• 26:04
  those T floor set TVs with the the antennas sitting on top, and
• 26:09
  everything was kind of analog and grainy. And now, you know,
• 26:12
  my computer screen is, is three times, is efficient and clearer.
• 26:17
  And, you know, it's just things that are things are changing
• 26:19
  rapidly for us, and that also just makes the practice of IP
• 26:23
  law very exciting.
• 26:25
  Stephanie Maas: Well, your excitement and passion for it
• 26:27
  definitely comes through. This has been super interesting.
• 26:31
  Thank you so much.
• 26:32
  Andrew Cooper: Absolutely. It's my pleasure, and thank you very
• 26:35
  much.