Latest / The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero / Jess Peil & Mark Trbojevic: Running, Injuries, and Mental Health

Transcript

Jess Peil & Mark Trbojevic: Running, Injuries, and Mental Health · The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero

• 0:00
  At Lonsdale St Studio, we believe in the power of
• 0:02
  storytelling to connect people and create change.
• 0:05
  That's why we're proud to be the production partner for this
• 0:08
  Running for Resilience podcast. Here we are, another after our
• 0:12
  podcast. And you know what?
• 0:14
  I feel really bad. I don't actually know what
• 0:16
  number podcasts we're at, but that's all all part of the fun
• 0:20
  of it all. Today we are here with my friend
• 0:23
  Mark Trebovich, who is from Peak Health Canberra, who is an
• 0:27
  amazing, amazing, amazing chiropractor.
• 0:30
  And as some of my friends would call him, and you're going to
• 0:33
  hate me saying this, aren't you? We call him the Cairo God.
• 0:38
  We. He doesn't let that go to his
• 0:40
  head though, at all. At all.
• 0:42
  But obviously Mark's got some amazing tips and tricks to stay
• 0:47
  healthy for running and also mental as well, so welcome Mark.
• 0:51
  Thanks for having me. That's good to be you.
• 0:53
  Thank you for being here. So Mark, I know like obviously
• 0:57
  we want to know a little bit more about you and what you do
• 0:59
  and where you come from. I know that you were a sprinter
• 1:04
  growing up. So tell us a bit about that.
• 1:07
  Like what was your, what was your favourite distance?
• 1:10
  We need PVS because we're runners, let's be real.
• 1:13
  So yeah, I was a sprinter growing up, did Liberal A's up
• 1:16
  in the Northern beaches. So I started under eights and
• 1:19
  then I went away and did a few other sports and came back in
• 1:22
  under twelves and then from there I was running for the next
• 1:25
  1015 years or so. Did ones, twos, fours I will say
• 1:30
  during little half legs, did long jump and that sort of
• 1:32
  stuff. But my main focus was the 400
• 1:35
  metres, so I did twos and ones as well just to balance it out
• 1:41
  with the four hundreds. But in terms of 400, I was
• 1:45
  competing at a state and national level for that two
• 1:48
  hundreds and one hundreds. I was more just the state level
• 1:51
  runner at at those. In terms of PBS, it's.
• 1:56
  Always the fun stuff. We like stats.
• 2:01
  So I was under the elevens for 100 metres.
• 2:03
  I think you can't get under the 10 like Usain Bolt, he's a
• 2:06
  machine. But then in terms of four
• 2:08
  hundreds, I was in the the Ohio 40 sevens, so.
• 2:12
  Oh I watched a friend's son race 400 just a couple of weeks ago.
• 2:17
  It's insane you guys are full gas for like that 4047 seconds
• 2:21
  because he he clocked in at about 47 seconds for that one as
• 2:24
  well. I'm I was impressed.
• 2:26
  Yeah, so the last 100 you're just holding on for dear life,
• 2:29
  hoping for the best. Yeah, the amount of times that
• 2:32
  training, I'll be in the in the gutter vomiting after training,
• 2:35
  just trying to get through it all.
• 2:37
  Bloody hell, that's crazy. I do.
• 2:39
  I sit there because the amount of times that I've sat there and
• 2:41
  I've said about, you know, for sprinters and stuff, I'm like,
• 2:44
  Oh yeah, run 400 metres and exhausted at the end of it.
• 2:47
  That's cute. But you can see it like
• 2:49
  obviously being a distance person myself instead like it's
• 2:53
  we go for a lot longer, for a lot slower.
• 2:57
  And it's a very, very different, you know, very, very different
• 3:02
  feeling. Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:03
  Completely different energy systems.
• 3:06
  With the long distance running, obviously it's mainly aerobic,
• 3:09
  whereas it's lactic threshold when you're doing that sprinting
• 3:12
  particularly over 10 seconds, so 10 seconds, you can get get
• 3:16
  through it easily. But as soon as you get that
• 3:18
  lactic threshold, that's when it hurts.
• 3:20
  Oh. My goodness, that's crazy.
• 3:22
  Did you find like when when you were running and when you were
• 3:24
  at the more national level and stuff that there was a lot of
• 3:28
  assistance with like mental health as well, or was that sort
• 3:31
  of? Not in the no, not really.
• 3:33
  That wasn't really around when I was coming through.
• 3:36
  It was more like you would you would learn about how to be on
• 3:40
  point on the day, strategies to perform, but not in terms of
• 3:45
  mental health side of things, no.
• 3:47
  Wow, that's a lot of, you know, basically when you finish,
• 3:51
  that's it, see you later kind of thing.
• 3:52
  Yeah, that's a lot of sports have had that, but there's so
• 3:55
  much more. Obviously focus on that now and
• 3:57
  realising that you really have to look after people at the end
• 4:01
  of it because at the end of a career, because half the time
• 4:04
  people don't know what what they're doing now and where
• 4:05
  they're going and stuff too. So.
• 4:08
  Yeah, and for obviously that elite and those, those athletes
• 4:11
  that play in footy, all those sort of sports that's there
• 4:14
  every day. They're doing that every day for
• 4:17
  10-15 years and then they step away from it.
• 4:20
  What now? There's no one, there's no me
• 4:22
  telling me what to do every day. There's no nutritionist,
• 4:25
  dietitian strength and conditioners.
• 4:28
  It's it's like, what's next? I'm in charge now.
• 4:30
  And that's when they start to unravel.
• 4:33
  Yeah. That makes so much sense, makes
• 4:35
  so much sense. That's so good now to see that
• 4:37
  there are so many more facilities and stuff out there
• 4:41
  for people to feel good and maintain them themselves and
• 4:44
  like avenues to move forward as opposed to what they were back
• 4:47
  in there, what, five years ago? I wish.
• 4:53
  I can say that because I'm older than you.
• 4:56
  So what? What took you to going into
• 4:59
  being chiropracting as opposed to going to, like, physiotherapy
• 5:04
  or osteopathy? Did I say that right?
• 5:07
  You did, yeah. Yeah, so it's gone back to my
• 5:11
  sprinting days. So I had a few issues with
• 5:13
  hamstring injuries. So I was doing self life saving
• 5:16
  as well. So beach sprinting and
• 5:18
  athletics. Most of my hamstring injuries
• 5:21
  happened on the beach when I was sprinting on the beach compared
• 5:24
  to track. And sand, yeah.
• 5:27
  And there's a reason for that, but I can go into that later if
• 5:29
  you're interested. But in terms of injuries to the
• 5:34
  hamstring, we as a family will see cars instead of physios
• 5:38
  growing up. And obviously the cars got me
• 5:41
  going again, got me back sprinting on the track, on the
• 5:44
  beach. And then unless you're in the
• 5:46
  top few in the world and athletics, you're not going to
• 5:48
  make a living out of it. So I was thinking, what else can
• 5:51
  I do? I enjoy health, I enjoy fitness.
• 5:54
  How can I make a difference? And I saw Cora's has already
• 5:59
  said so coming towards the end of school I said what can I do
• 6:02
  at uni And I'm looking at the course and I thought I'll do
• 6:05
  Cora, see how I go. And then it just, yeah,
• 6:08
  steamrolled from there. So I got into uni and loved it.
• 6:12
  And then initially I went over to Scotland and worked as a Cora
• 6:15
  over there and then I was there for I think around 18 months and
• 6:19
  then I came to Canberra straight after.
• 6:22
  I worked as an associate, start up my own thing out of the gym
• 6:26
  and then had been opened in Faro for about 2 1/2 years now.
• 6:29
  Why Canberra? That's because my my wife, so
• 6:35
  when I was living in Scotland, she already had her work set up
• 6:38
  in Canberra. So I didn't have any work or
• 6:41
  anything lined up. So I said I'll come down to
• 6:43
  Canberra and go from there and I've been there for coming up to
• 6:46
  10 years. I think it is now.
• 6:47
  Oh. My goodness, yeah, it's almost
• 6:50
  like what does it do? What's it called when you do
• 6:52
  your your 10 year you've been working somewhere for 10 years
• 6:55
  and stuff and then you get like a your long service leave.
• 6:57
  Yeah, you need care if I. Could give it to that myself,
• 6:59
  that'd be good. Exactly, I think the the
• 7:03
  practise would almost fall apart without you there.
• 7:04
  I know Caitlin is amazing as well but she.
• 7:07
  Is she would keep it going? She's incredible.
• 7:09
  Now, there's obviously there's so many people who do have a, a
• 7:14
  fear, I would say, of chiropractors.
• 7:17
  They think that they're going to go in there and stuff and
• 7:20
  they're going to get their neck cracked and they're going to get
• 7:22
  that cracked and stuff and that. Can you just spell that a little
• 7:26
  bit? Yeah, yeah.
• 7:27
  So in terms of what we do, so for our initial, we do an hour
• 7:31
  long consult. The focus is really on
• 7:34
  assessments. Obviously history is key and
• 7:37
  then we get into examination. So we do a mixture of neural
• 7:40
  assessments. They're looking at the parts of
• 7:41
  brain that relate to movement. We look at full body functional
• 7:45
  movement as well. So not just their concern, but
• 7:47
  see how the whole body interrelates and what could be
• 7:50
  contributing to the pain that someone's coming in with.
• 7:53
  We also do strength testing as well.
• 7:55
  So if there's like a runner for example, we'll be testing all
• 7:58
  the lower limbs like quad strength, hamstring strength,
• 8:01
  calf strength, look at foot intrinsic muscles.
• 8:05
  From there, obviously we explain what we've picked up, what
• 8:08
  we've, what we need working on and then from there we'll be
• 8:12
  doing a mixture of all different things.
• 8:14
  So from mobilisation, manipulation, soft tissue work,
• 8:18
  rehab exercises, people think I are they're just going to adjust
• 8:23
  the neck. With a lot of people I don't
• 8:25
  even touch the neck. In terms of adjustments, it just
• 8:27
  depends what's going on with the individual.
• 8:29
  So it's very specific to each person and what I do on one
• 8:32
  person, I'll do something completely different to the next
• 8:34
  person as well. I remember, I still remember
• 8:37
  having that first appointment. I came in and saw you and I
• 8:40
  think I was, it's about, I think that first assessment is about
• 8:43
  an hour and an hour and a half. Yeah.
• 8:45
  And I was there for an. I think I was there for longer.
• 8:47
  I think you. Were I think I needed a lot of
• 8:49
  help because I was pretty broken and it blew me away as you know.
• 8:55
  And I think within when I left, because before I came in, I'd
• 9:00
  said to my husband, to Rich that he's like, why are you going to
• 9:05
  chiropractor for your foot? Like that's ridiculous.
• 9:08
  And I said, look, it's 10 months that this thing's been going on
• 9:10
  for. I just, you know, this is what I
• 9:12
  need. I need to go and just throw
• 9:14
  everything at it. So why the hell not?
• 9:17
  When in I think when I left, I called him on the way home.
• 9:20
  The drive home's only, you know, 10-15 minutes.
• 9:22
  I'm like get on the phone, get in, see this guy like it'll blow
• 9:26
  you away and I he hasn't looked back since either like just
• 9:29
  comes in to see you too when he's.
• 9:31
  You know, yeah, when he's in the country.
• 9:34
  Exactly, exactly. Do you find that most people
• 9:37
  come to see like their first initial and this might be a dumb
• 9:41
  question, but that's me their first dumb answer.
• 9:49
  Do you find that majority of the time it is people who have like
• 9:53
  a preexisting injury who coming to see you initially or do you
• 9:57
  find like there are some people who coming just because they
• 10:00
  want, you know, a checkup so to speak?
• 10:04
  For me, it's a real mixture, so some people will have a
• 10:06
  preexisting injury that they want to try and address.
• 10:09
  Some people just want to come in to improve their performance
• 10:13
  because I'll work with a lot of people in terms of those
• 10:15
  sporting side of things. So a lot of weight lifters as
• 10:19
  well, I see. And some of them just want to be
• 10:21
  able to lift me better. So it's not I'm coming in for
• 10:24
  this to in terms of reducing injury.
• 10:26
  I just want to perform better. And that's when we're just
• 10:29
  assessing, see how the body's moving again, checking your own
• 10:32
  neurological stuff, checking strength and just say, how can
• 10:36
  we make them move and function better to make them perform
• 10:38
  better on on the day that's. Good.
• 10:41
  Yeah, that's good. That's Eddie.
• 10:42
  What a It's such a good mixture. Hey.
• 10:44
  Yeah, it's a nice mixture. Yeah, obviously.
• 10:46
  Yeah, pain's a whole topic which we might get into today.
• 10:49
  But yeah, just improving performance.
• 10:51
  I love that sort of thing as well and making people
• 10:53
  functioning me better as well. Can you make me faster?
• 10:57
  I'm not sure about that you run long distance.
• 11:01
  Damn, I can't do that for 100 minutes.
• 11:04
  That's not even a warm up. So what do you find like for?
• 11:08
  And again, I'm going to talk running specific with being
• 11:12
  obviously focused on for our and majority of our people obviously
• 11:17
  run as and supplement with other with other sports.
• 11:20
  What do you find is the most one of the most common injuries that
• 11:24
  a runner would present with? The most common one I see for
• 11:28
  runners is probably Achilles tendinopathies or plantar
• 11:31
  fascia, plantar fasciitis, I should say.
• 11:35
  And then you got, yeah, stress responses at the bone and
• 11:38
  particularly the lunatics that are running the the 100 miles
• 11:40
  and the what are you talking about multi day events?
• 11:43
  There's a few of those around. I don't.
• 11:44
  Know those people? Maybe I need to meet those
• 11:46
  people. But they'll be the most common
• 11:49
  I'll see for runners and then it's working OK.
• 11:52
  Where's the mechanical breakdown and what's overlaid in this
• 11:55
  structure and then giving the appropriate treatment from
• 11:58
  there? Very cool, very cool.
• 12:00
  Because I know I keep. Every time I come in, I've got
• 12:02
  something different. Well, yeah, even going back to
• 12:07
  you, obviously you're presented with plantar fascia paint
• 12:10
  initially, but I think it was on the left side, Yeah.
• 12:14
  And we picked up all your a lot of deficiencies and strength on
• 12:16
  the right hand side. So with that, obviously you've
• 12:19
  got deficiency on the right hand side, you're going to be loading
• 12:21
  up that left side more. So as soon as we got you
• 12:24
  stronger on that right hand side, things improved and got
• 12:27
  better. So much.
• 12:28
  Yeah. So a lot of people will be like,
• 12:29
  oh, the pain's there, let's focus on that.
• 12:31
  But if you're not fixing the cause of what's happening, yeah,
• 12:33
  we're going to get so far. Yeah, I think that again, same
• 12:36
  thing like that first time. I don't, I don't think you even
• 12:39
  looked at my foot that first. That first.
• 12:42
  Maybe not. Yeah, not like my foot was like
• 12:45
  I'm here. Hello, I'm the thing that hurts
• 12:47
  and you're like, no, you back off you later.
• 12:51
  Obviously everyone realises about the body and how it's
• 12:54
  connected to, you know, the hip bones connected to the the leg
• 12:59
  bone. It really took me a minute then,
• 13:02
  but no one like not there hasn't been as much focus on the body
• 13:07
  to mind. Do you, and I know you obviously
• 13:10
  you constantly, you do a lot of that now work now too.
• 13:14
  Go into that a little bit because it's fun, it's
• 13:16
  interesting. It's interesting, Yeah.
• 13:17
  So I guess my knowledge in this area has come a lot from a guy
• 13:22
  in Melbourne. His name's Brett Juris and he's
• 13:25
  a car, but he's done a lot of functional neurology stuff and
• 13:29
  he's big in the concussion field and space down in Melbourne.
• 13:34
  What we're assessing is basically how the brain is
• 13:37
  functioning. So there's a variety of
• 13:38
  different tests that we can do to give us an idea of, OK, is
• 13:42
  there a deficiency in different parts of the brain?
• 13:44
  So in terms of a lot of testing I do, I do cerebellar testing,
• 13:49
  which is relating to movement basically.
• 13:52
  So joint proprioceptions, wait, if for example, your arms up
• 13:55
  here and you'll get it's giving feedback back to your brain to
• 13:59
  say that's where my joint is. But when there's a mix up,
• 14:02
  sometimes the brain thinks it's over here when it's there.
• 14:06
  So that's in terms of cell bell testing.
• 14:08
  So we're doing like quick movements like eyes closed, eyes
• 14:11
  open sort of stuff. And then we, there's another
• 14:14
  part of the brain called your frontal lobe.
• 14:15
  A lot of people know, and man, it probably develops later
• 14:19
  around that 25 years of age, 25, maybe 50.
• 14:24
  Yeah. Some, but what what that part of
• 14:27
  the brain does is decision making.
• 14:29
  It relates to memory as well and and sequencing of movements.
• 14:33
  So like what muscles are contracting to be there.
• 14:36
  So there's like simple tests you can do.
• 14:38
  It's like making a sequence of this edge flat and doing it as
• 14:41
  quick as you can. That was so hard, I remember
• 14:43
  doing that one once. So that gives it insight is that
• 14:47
  frontal lobe where you can tell you do it left versus right.
• 14:50
  From there we get into eye movements.
• 14:53
  So there's a thing called bombs, which is different reflective
• 14:57
  eye movements that everyone has and we're looking at how well
• 15:00
  they're functioning. So that gives this again, an
• 15:03
  insight potentially to the frontal lobe.
• 15:05
  So we'll do quick movements, for example, someone's looking at
• 15:08
  that time and the next time as quick as they can.
• 15:10
  And if there's slow slowness in that movement, it could relate
• 15:13
  to that frontal lobe being down. If its accuracy is off, could be
• 15:18
  relating back to the celibatellum.
• 15:20
  And then there's more specific parts of the brain that we're
• 15:22
  looking at, which I won't get into because that's bit complex
• 15:25
  for this, but that's giving us an insight, OK, how well is
• 15:32
  their brain functioning at the moment?
• 15:34
  How well is that mind body connection going?
• 15:37
  And if you, for example, have a lot of injuries and it
• 15:40
  continually is on that left hand side of the body, say for
• 15:43
  example, you've got your left shoulder, your left Achilles,
• 15:45
  your left knee, and it's always that left hand side potentially
• 15:48
  to have a deficiency and that cerebellar function on that left
• 15:50
  hand side. And it's not actually, even
• 15:53
  though they're the structures they're getting getting impacted
• 15:56
  on, it's not them that's so much the issue.
• 15:58
  If we fix up what's happening at the brain, then a lot of those
• 16:01
  functions clear up. Yeah, that.
• 16:04
  Is cool. That is really cool.
• 16:05
  It's it has it has fascinated me because obviously when we did
• 16:08
  the big run last year, the 777 last year and you and I were
• 16:15
  trying to high 5 and I couldn't connect.
• 16:18
  Yeah, I still remember just coming up and being like what?
• 16:22
  Like trying to swap Flyers basically.
• 16:24
  And it was just, we couldn't connect at all.
• 16:26
  It was really, really bizarre. And you said the same like
• 16:28
  exactly that, that I had cooked myself.
• 16:30
  I was in fight or flight that entire week and I was a mess
• 16:36
  from that. And it was just those few simple
• 16:38
  little, like even just saying like, like I think you got me to
• 16:41
  do the months of the year backwards and then from
• 16:46
  September backwards kind of thing.
• 16:48
  So you did all this stuff to sort of, you know, make my brain
• 16:51
  actually work better and, you know, gave it a little bit of,
• 16:55
  you know, gave it some meat basically.
• 16:57
  And then I could do the exercise, which was really, it
• 17:02
  kind of blew me away how quickly the brain resets so that the
• 17:06
  body can function. Yeah.
• 17:07
  And that, that's the thing with any neural stuff, you can know,
• 17:10
  you know, if you made it better straight away, or you can, you
• 17:13
  know, if you made it worse. So sometimes you're like, oh,
• 17:15
  that didn't work, we need to do something else.
• 17:17
  And for it to be that quick of change, awesome.
• 17:21
  But you need to reinforce it. So there's no point doing it
• 17:23
  once. Then you're like, yeah, it's
• 17:24
  good. You need to actually work.
• 17:26
  The research is showing up to 20 minutes a day at a time working
• 17:30
  it. And if you can do that twice a
• 17:31
  day, even better in terms of time frame.
• 17:34
  So this what what is called is neuroplasticity and that's how
• 17:37
  the nervous system adapts and it can adapt in a good way or can
• 17:41
  adapt in a poor way. So in terms of reinforcing that
• 17:44
  research is a bit unknown in terms of how long you have to
• 17:47
  work on that. It could be days, could be
• 17:48
  weeks, could be months. Everyone's different and that's
• 17:51
  why it's important we come back and retest.
• 17:53
  OK, what? How's it looking now?
• 17:55
  Because sometimes the testing, it will completely change your
• 17:58
  work on your left side. Now we need to work on the right
• 18:00
  side because things are that things.
• 18:01
  Change. Oh yeah.
• 18:02
  Because so it strengthens up on one side and then it the other
• 18:05
  side says no, it's my holiday time, so to speak.
• 18:08
  And then, yeah. And then you have to balance it
• 18:10
  back out. Yeah, Basically, yeah.
• 18:12
  Yeah. And just you touch on a little
• 18:15
  bit of that sympathetic state. So that's that flight or flight
• 18:19
  state. And then you got, yeah, which
• 18:22
  pretty much everyone's in these days.
• 18:23
  Yeah, that. Is the world now?
• 18:25
  Yeah, we're all working too much with schedules, kids,
• 18:28
  everything. We're all stressed out of our
• 18:30
  heads. And then the other part of the
• 18:32
  nervous system or that part of in terms of sympathetic, you got
• 18:35
  parasympathetic, which is that rest and digest.
• 18:39
  So in terms of that, because people are stressed out, they're
• 18:43
  in that fly or flight state, what happens to the cortisol
• 18:46
  levels increase skyrocket. That's OK for a short period.
• 18:51
  Yeah, that's normal. For prolonged periods, that's
• 18:54
  when issues get created. So that's when sensitivities in
• 18:56
  the body start to come on. That's when sicknesses how?
• 19:00
  My stomach is sore all the time. Yeah, sickness comes on.
• 19:04
  So how many people go on holidays?
• 19:06
  Oh, and they get sick straight away.
• 19:08
  Get sick straight. Away because what happens when
• 19:10
  you go on that holiday? You de stress causal levels
• 19:13
  drop. Body says yeah, exactly.
• 19:16
  So some of what I need to do with a lot of people, they it
• 19:21
  actually in that sympathetic state.
• 19:22
  It's common that people will have anxiety that sort of stuff
• 19:25
  going on as well. So with this new stuff that we
• 19:29
  do, we can target that parasympathetic nervous system
• 19:32
  to time 1 some of that anxiety and de stressed out that flight
• 19:36
  or flight state. So simple things.
• 19:40
  Breathing's a big one. I'm sure a lot of people have
• 19:42
  heard about the vagal nerve because it seems to be the
• 19:45
  buzzword at the moment. Is that the one where you're
• 19:48
  doing like sorry the breathing and stuff when you is that the
• 19:51
  nostril closing stuff? Now I said the the vagal nerve
• 19:54
  goes down to the diaphragm. Oh, OK, yeah.
• 19:56
  So if you're doing diaphragmatic breathing, which is to stimulate
• 20:00
  the diaphragm, you actually need to breathe in for the nose, OK.
• 20:03
  If you breathe through the mouth, you're not going to
• 20:04
  stimulate the diaphragm as much. So a simple way to stimulate the
• 20:08
  diaphragm, sorry. The vagal nerve is through the
• 20:10
  diaphragm breathing. I like to use an app called.
• 20:14
  It's literally called Breathe I think.
• 20:16
  I've got that one. And it what it is, it's it has a
• 20:21
  little circle on it and a circle.
• 20:23
  Oh, is that the the expansion? Yeah, expands.
• 20:24
  Yeah, and. Then yeah, yeah it.
• 20:26
  Contracts in and then you're doing that diaphragmatic
• 20:28
  breathing to a timer. So you're looking at that
• 20:31
  breathing in slowly, breathing out for the mouth slowly.
• 20:34
  So that's a nice way you can stimulate the parasympathetics.
• 20:38
  You don't. Have to do it for long either,
• 20:40
  do you? Like you could just take like a
• 20:42
  3-4 minute break, Have a cup of tea and a breathing session?
• 20:45
  Yeah, exactly. And then back to it.
• 20:47
  Yeah, and some other nice ways, real simple ways you can do
• 20:50
  gargling, humming. You've got a good voice to hum,
• 20:53
  don't you? So.
• 20:54
  Right now, no. But because of vibrations that's
• 20:59
  created from that, again it simulates that vagal nerve get
• 21:03
  out and. That's why people at the moment,
• 21:05
  there's so much stuff with the mouth taping.
• 21:08
  Would that be? Yeah, well, that's obviously
• 21:09
  encouraging nasal breathing. Yeah, which should be
• 21:13
  encouraging, that diaphragmatic breathing.
• 21:15
  So that's why, yeah, that's become a big thing as well.
• 21:17
  Obviously you've got to be careful with that because if
• 21:20
  you're not breathing through the nose.
• 21:23
  Not so good. But yeah, make sure you you get
• 21:27
  advice on that one. The other thing, just going back
• 21:30
  to the eye movements earlier. So say for example, we're
• 21:33
  assessing eye movements up and down, OK, and then we got eye
• 21:36
  movements side to side. So when you're movements are
• 21:39
  going up and down, you're stimulating the fight or flight
• 21:42
  state of the nervous system. Any ones that are across, you're
• 21:46
  stimulating the that rest and digest parasympathetic part of
• 21:50
  your nervous system. So someone that's in that
• 21:54
  anxiety state, for example, we're not going to be
• 21:56
  stimulating that up and down. We want to go side to side and
• 22:01
  think about someone that's at an office all day, sitting at a
• 22:03
  computer. What are they doing scrolling up
• 22:06
  and down or on their phones up? And down well, unless people are
• 22:09
  on a a dating app, they're scrolling left or right.
• 22:15
  There could be a few of those as well, yeah.
• 22:16
  They should be scrolling up. Get out of it.
• 22:18
  Yeah. Well, at least they're getting
• 22:19
  in that. That yeah, they're getting in
• 22:20
  that yeah, maybe that's why they feel so calm about getting in
• 22:23
  contact with people. But yeah, it's it's, we're on it
• 22:28
  all day. We're not just stressed with
• 22:30
  schedules. We're looking at computers,
• 22:31
  we're looking at phones. All of that is contributing to
• 22:34
  putting us in that file flights need as well.
• 22:36
  We're not, we're not giving our brains a rest.
• 22:38
  Really. Like we turn around.
• 22:39
  I know so often, like we're on the computer all day doing
• 22:43
  emails, work things, da, da, da, da.
• 22:44
  And then the first thing we think of is, OK, it's rest time
• 22:47
  now, doom scrolling. Let's doom scroll.
• 22:50
  And again, like you said, it's up and down.
• 22:52
  So you're not giving your brain any break at all.
• 22:54
  Yeah. But what's that for the the
• 22:55
  brain? What does that give us?
• 22:59
  Dopamine hit. Yeah.
• 23:01
  So we want to get on that because it's it makes you feel
• 23:04
  better because you're getting a dopamine hit.
• 23:05
  Even now you're dead. You're just scrolling up and
• 23:08
  down. Yeah, it's giving a dopamine
• 23:09
  hit. That is true, that is true.
• 23:11
  But as we know, we can get dopamine hits in many different
• 23:14
  ways, so many different ways. Oh, this is a big one.
• 23:16
  Yeah, running. Yeah, exactly.
• 23:20
  Because community exercising just.
• 23:23
  Going around the block, even if you don't, if you know, because
• 23:26
  you might need to have just a complete another break and that
• 23:29
  means, you know, no communication with people, just
• 23:31
  5 minutes. Just go around the block, yeah?
• 23:33
  And just going back to what I do, there's a lot of people that
• 23:38
  come in with chronic pain and chronic pain leads to them not
• 23:42
  doing much. They're they're not walking,
• 23:45
  they're not running, they're not doing any of this.
• 23:46
  They're in pain, injury. And the big thing is breaking
• 23:50
  that cycle because when they're in that pain, they lose
• 23:54
  motivation. They don't want to do things.
• 23:57
  Then they withdraw socially. And a lot of people I see in
• 24:02
  that chronic state getting more that depressive state as well.
• 24:05
  It's. Such.
• 24:06
  A it's a downward spiral, downward spiral, isn't it?
• 24:08
  And exactly what you just said, even if we can get them out,
• 24:12
  walk around the block for 5 minutes, even if they used to do
• 24:15
  an hour run, that's OK. We're getting them out there
• 24:17
  moving. It's a dolphin hit for them and
• 24:22
  it is big spiral for people. Like it's been a few years ago
• 24:26
  now, but I actually had a patient who was in chronic pain.
• 24:30
  He had some cancer stuff, all this stuff going on and he he
• 24:34
  actually asked me how can he end things?
• 24:37
  Oh gosh. Which obviously I've never had
• 24:40
  happened to me during a session before.
• 24:44
  And that's what as his health practitioners, they entrust on
• 24:49
  you so much. And obviously I didn't want him
• 24:53
  to do that. I reached out to the people as I
• 24:56
  should. Unfortunately, he didn't end up
• 24:59
  anything. And that's what chronic pain can
• 25:02
  do to people. Not really can.
• 25:04
  And that's why I've run for resilience resonates with me so
• 25:08
  much is it's people's health, it's people's well being and
• 25:13
  trying to make ACT suicide free is is massive.
• 25:18
  Yeah, I love what? Oh, so doing it, yeah.
• 25:20
  And it's great to having the, the connection with running for
• 25:24
  resilience and the Medicare mental health system as well now
• 25:27
  like we do have, because I mean, we do have an Ave now to be able
• 25:31
  to point people in the right direction.
• 25:34
  And like, excuse me, David Smith, I think opened up the
• 25:38
  Tuggeranong or helped open up the Tuggeranong one just
• 25:41
  recently. And but it is, it's so good just
• 25:44
  to have something accessible for people.
• 25:47
  And I think too, because so often it has been, if you need
• 25:50
  professional services for stuff like that, so often it's, well,
• 25:53
  you got to go to Sydney. Yeah.
• 25:55
  And by, you know, by the time Sydney's there, it's, it's too
• 25:58
  late. You can't get into places.
• 26:00
  So yeah, really always got to appreciate.
• 26:03
  It's obviously the more we can expand in the ACT, the better.
• 26:07
  I, we had a friend a few years ago that he had mental health
• 26:12
  issues and he was trying to get that looked after that address
• 26:18
  in Canberra and he didn't get the help that he needed.
• 26:21
  He's no longer with us. And I think that's sad that just
• 26:24
  because we don't have the facilities for people to be able
• 26:27
  to go there and and get looked after, it's, it's we're losing
• 26:32
  people as a result of that. So.
• 26:33
  It's too, it's too common a story now, isn't it?
• 26:36
  So at least, you know, I know obviously the ICT for mental
• 26:39
  health and for suicide rates has dropped dramatically as opposed
• 26:43
  to a lot of the other states now.
• 26:44
  So you know, obviously we'd like to say that we're a part of
• 26:47
  that. But I think again, Canberra
• 26:50
  having communities and being a much tight knit, a much more
• 26:53
  tight knit community tends to, you know, assist in that regard.
• 27:00
  And and then obviously having all these systems now coming
• 27:03
  into place are really making a difference, which is great.
• 27:05
  Yeah, and people need to be aware of it as well.
• 27:08
  So the Medicare plans, I think you can get up to 12 visits in
• 27:11
  terms of that health. Oh good.
• 27:13
  From Medicare and to see a psychologist and get a bit of a
• 27:17
  rebate to help you actually afford to be able to see
• 27:19
  psychologist as well 'cause being able to afford it is a big
• 27:22
  thing for people as well. They're like, I can't afford it,
• 27:24
  I need to be able to feed my family.
• 27:26
  But if I can get a rebate and get the help that they're after,
• 27:30
  yeah, it's huge for people. Oh, it is.
• 27:31
  It's huge. And again, movement is medicine
• 27:34
  as well. And yeah, just taking that first
• 27:37
  step to say I need help. Yeah.
• 27:40
  Or someone noticing it. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:42
  Very important. Yeah.
• 27:43
  And as you just said, with movements, medicine and if, if
• 27:46
  people were struggling to move, how can they move?
• 27:50
  Like what? What can we get them to do if
• 27:52
  it's not running? Can we get them in before
• 27:53
  walking? Yeah, Yeah.
• 27:55
  There's always something someone can do, regardless if they're in
• 27:59
  pain, they need to get moving. And all pain is is just an alarm
• 28:03
  system. Something's going on in the
• 28:05
  body, OK. And when you're in that going
• 28:08
  back to that fight or flight state, when you're in that, it's
• 28:11
  at a heightened sense. So pain that's usually oh, it's
• 28:15
  not too bad. I can deal with that is no
• 28:17
  longer I can deal with that. It's gone.
• 28:20
  I can't deal with this anymore. It's.
• 28:21
  I need, I need a drink so I can deal with that kind of thing.
• 28:23
  Yeah, it's. A crisis for the body and all.
• 28:26
  A lot of what we do with chronic pain is just trying to dampen
• 28:29
  those signals down. Yeah.
• 28:31
  How can we break that cycle to go, OK, thanks buddy, but I'm
• 28:34
  actually OK. Yeah, I know there's pain there,
• 28:36
  but I'm not causing any damage. I'm not causing any issues for
• 28:39
  the body. We just need to dampen things
• 28:41
  down and unwind things, Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
• 28:44
  So Speaking of pain, because we're on that subject now, men
• 28:49
  or women, who's worse? Oh men, 100% yes.
• 28:54
  That's why I don't. We don't give birth, that is.
• 28:57
  True, That is very true. I always laugh because
• 29:00
  obviously, you know, Richard Paine faced is quite, quite
• 29:05
  epic. So yeah, always makes me giggle
• 29:08
  anyway. But that's that's just between
• 29:10
  us with being chiropracting. And then obviously you like
• 29:17
  someone coming to you and they'll have a have a session
• 29:19
  with you or with Caitlin or anyone else homework.
• 29:24
  Homework, yeah, yeah, we always give homework, yeah, yeah.
• 29:28
  And this particular, that neural stuff that I was talking about
• 29:31
  earlier, if you don't work on it, it's not going to improve.
• 29:35
  It's we can guide you in terms of what to to, to do and how to
• 29:39
  do it, but if you don't work on it, it's not going to change.
• 29:42
  And same with the, the strength stuff, a lot of the strength
• 29:44
  stuff in terms of me, I'd target the nervous system at the same
• 29:48
  time. So for example, I utilise
• 29:50
  isometrics quite a bit, which is where the muscles contracting
• 29:53
  but not moving. And what that's doing is
• 29:55
  stimulating the cellar bevel. It's giving you a joint
• 29:57
  awareness, joint feedback. And that's, if you're not doing
• 30:01
  those exercises, you're not going to get that feedback.
• 30:03
  So that's why if I give you something, OK, let's not just
• 30:08
  make sure you do it. Let's show you that it works.
• 30:10
  So we'll, I'll do something and go, OK, let's see if we made a
• 30:12
  better strength. Let's see if that neuro test has
• 30:15
  changed. And that gives the buy and that
• 30:16
  gives that motivation to go, oh, that made a difference.
• 30:19
  Let's actually do it and then get even more of a change.
• 30:22
  And and then there are people who fail.
• 30:24
  And then there's people that that don't do it regardless.
• 30:28
  I try, but I definitely don't get a A on my report card, do I?
• 30:34
  Yeah. That's that's the thing.
• 30:35
  We're still always going to get change, but if people put in the
• 30:38
  effort, they're going to get even more of a change and make
• 30:40
  and feel even better, perform better.
• 30:42
  Yeah. Truth.
• 30:43
  Yeah. So it's, it's not, I'm not
• 30:46
  worried about it. It's up to the individual.
• 30:48
  If they want to get better, they'll work on it.
• 30:50
  I'll do better. Well, I'll try and do better
• 30:55
  anyway. Let's let's be real.
• 30:56
  Let's be real. All right, Quick fire.
• 31:00
  Quick fire. What's your favourite shoe?
• 31:03
  Favourite shoe in what regard? Running.
• 31:08
  What are we here for? I don't have a specific one, but
• 31:12
  Hocker in terms of brands. For yourself?
• 31:14
  Yep, Yep, cool. Why?
• 31:18
  Just feel comfy. Comfy.
• 31:19
  Yeah, Yeah. And the wider toe box at the
• 31:22
  front as well. Oh, I.
• 31:23
  Love a wide toe box? Yeah, who wants a narrow toe
• 31:26
  box? Jam your toes in and they can't
• 31:28
  shake like that. No, that's why everyone gets
• 31:30
  calluses on the outside of the big toe.
• 31:32
  Yeah, that's true. And that's why it keeps you in
• 31:35
  business as well. Thank you, Azacs.
• 31:39
  I didn't say that out loud, Azacs, if you could go to dinner
• 31:45
  with anyone in the world, dead or alive, if they're, you know,
• 31:49
  obviously if they're dead, they're not in the world
• 31:50
  anymore. But who would it be?
• 31:52
  Usain Bolt. Oh.
• 31:55
  That'll be cool. Yeah, yeah, just like his
• 31:58
  personality or? Personality just also say like
• 32:02
  what he did to get fastest person in the world, the
• 32:06
  training he put in everything growing up, That'd be cool to
• 32:09
  listen to that. 'D be really cool be cool to
• 32:11
  hear someone's like they're yeah they're absolute like just their
• 32:14
  mental strength yeah would be really really fascinating yeah
• 32:17
  that's. Huge.
• 32:17
  Like how many times you wouldn't go to the Olympics to be able to
• 32:21
  back that up again and again? World records, that's true.
• 32:24
  Yeah, that'd be really cool. That would be very, very, very
• 32:26
  cool. So what's next for you?
• 32:29
  What's next for me in terms of in terms?
• 32:31
  Of yeah, business and stuff. So currently I'm studying at
• 32:37
  masters of strength and conditioning for ECU so I'm
• 32:40
  nearly done with that. Should be done mid next year.
• 32:43
  That's been a four year slog just cause I've been doing it
• 32:45
  part time. Then obviously we've got the the
• 32:49
  business down at Farah. So currently we have two chorus,
• 32:53
  got a remedial massage therapist and got exercise physiologist.
• 32:57
  I'd love to get a physio on board into the clinic and
• 33:01
  another massage therapist and just have a real nice team going
• 33:04
  forward. Hopefully the next few years we
• 33:07
  can expand our space and have a bigger gym space, do things like
• 33:11
  Pilates classes and have classes for the APS and would be nice
• 33:15
  just to have that bigger space in order to do that.
• 33:18
  Do you think expansion, expansion as in, but not like
• 33:21
  out of Farrah, would that be something you'd be?
• 33:23
  Yeah. Potentially in the future, yeah.
• 33:24
  Yeah, yeah, that'd be really good.
• 33:26
  Yeah, we're loving the Farrah community at the moment, but
• 33:28
  yeah, potentially in the especially obviously got.
• 33:31
  Some bows. Got the cafes there which is
• 33:34
  great they they bring a good vibe to to the place as well.
• 33:37
  Oh, yes, I do. When are we going to see you at
• 33:41
  Afrah? I know it's.
• 33:42
  I know it's a very long, long, long way for you.
• 33:46
  It is a very long way. But you did do 15 KS in one day
• 33:50
  at 11 as well. Yeah, I did 14 KS and 14, about
• 33:55
  24 KS the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:59
  I'll have to block out what because it's on Wednesdays.
• 34:02
  Hey, it's on like every day now. No, the one at the dock.
• 34:05
  Oh yeah. I have to block out a time at
• 34:09
  work so I can get there for 6:00 PM How?
• 34:10
  As I'm working till 6:00 so. It is a party.
• 34:13
  Yeah, you do need to. Come along, it is well worth it
• 34:15
  so. Look, I might have to walk it,
• 34:17
  but yeah. You can do whatever you need to.
• 34:20
  You can do 400 metre sprints. Nah, Nah, I don't want to bomb
• 34:26
  it. We don't want you to do that
• 34:28
  either. Well, thank you, Mark.
• 34:31
  Thank you so much for coming in and chatting and stuff.
• 34:33
  That's been enlightening. Yeah.
• 34:35
  I I feel. Smarter, smarter ish.
• 34:40
  Yeah, but hopefully people get something out of it, even if
• 34:43
  it's just one person that it helps, that's awesome.
• 34:46
  But hopefully a few more we'll get something out of it as well.
• 34:49
  Yeah, very good. One more actually one more
• 34:51
  thing. I just just thought of what is
• 34:53
  one thing that every every person who's running like semi
• 34:57
  longer distances what is there one specific exercise that you
• 35:02
  would recommend that everybody should do?
• 35:05
  That everybody should do. Yeah.
• 35:06
  Well, what are you running on? On the road?
• 35:09
  Feet. Feet.
• 35:11
  Oh, those things, yeah. I go straight to Rd.
• 35:17
  I'll be checking people's foot function, particularly just even
• 35:21
  simple toe isolation. So being able to separate your
• 35:23
  toes, lift that big toe by itself, we thought the rest of
• 35:26
  toes by themselves, simple exercise up and down checking
• 35:29
  that out, see if you can do it, as I was saying with the toy
• 35:32
  box. So if they're jamming in, a lot
• 35:34
  of people's toes function actually get lost and that might
• 35:36
  control that connection gets lost as well.
• 35:38
  So yeah, I'll get it hot. And car phrases.
• 35:42
  Who doesn't love a car phrase for for runners?
• 35:44
  I mean, what? Yeah, if you could, we did test
• 35:49
  with you insurance car phrases. If you can't get 20 car phrases,
• 35:54
  yeah, you're going to run 150 KS.
• 35:59
  That's a big thing. Yeah, it's true.
• 36:01
  It's true. It's all connected.
• 36:02
  It is all connected. Awesome.
• 36:03
  So that would probably be the two two things, OK.
• 36:05
  Cool, that's cool. But if you know, obviously if
• 36:08
  anyone wants to come and see, well, Mark's a bit.
• 36:10
  Mark's quite busy. Come down to Peak Health or give
• 36:14
  Peak Health a call or check out their website and stuff and get
• 36:17
  on in. We'll be happy to help out.
• 36:19
  Yeah, awesome. Thanks Mark so much and I'll see
• 36:22
  you. I think is it next week?
• 36:23
  I've got an appointment. Couple weeks, couple weeks, OK
• 36:25
  before this, before the marathon.
• 36:27
  Things we do.