Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #468 Come On Get Happy

Transcript

#468 Come On Get Happy · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Now, meaning and purpose.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: It seems that when we look at our children and
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: feel that they are bringing meaning and purpose into our lives,
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: no matter how negatively they can affect our overall experience.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Of happiness, they still boost our well being. And now
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  Speaker 1: here's the stars of our show, my mum and dad.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: So this is going to be a fun and somewhat
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: provocative conversation.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: This is doctor Justin Coulson.
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  Speaker 3: I'm the founder at Happy Families dot com dot you,
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  Speaker 3: and the parenting expert and co host of Channel Line's
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Parental Guidance, returning soon with season two.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm here with Kylie, my.
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  Speaker 3: Wife, podcast host, partner and mum to our six kids. Hey, Kylie,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: at what point did you realize that being a mum
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: was not actually going to make you happy?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Seriously?
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  Speaker 4: Like, I think it was about day five as we
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: drove out that hospital driveway and our baby, who had
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: literally slept and fed so beautifully for the first five days,
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  Speaker 4: started crying and she didn't stop.
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  Speaker 3: For about nine monets, for about nine months, maybe longer,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, and the pain that she inflicted on our
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  Speaker 3: family did not stop until well, actually, I don't want
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  Speaker 3: I don't.
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  Speaker 1: Want to throw our daughter in the deep end here.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Let's just say that she's very.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Proud of the fact that she's taught us lots and
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  Speaker 2: lots in her.
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  Speaker 1: Lifetime about how to be a better parent. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: all the strain and stress.
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  Speaker 3: The Harvard psychologist Dan Gilbert, he talks about when the
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: kids leave home and you become an empty nester, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: he says the number one symptom of empty nesters is
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: non stop smilingly. It just feels so good when they leave,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: which we're not supposed to say. I mean, this is
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: the Happy Family's podcast. We're supposed to be talking about
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: how good it feels to have kids. But well, you.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Know, you've done a PhD on the whole topic, and
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: it's really intriguing. You know, the research is really clear
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: that when children are born, our happiness levels decrease.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: That are this druble.
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  Speaker 3: Well, actually, hang on to said, I've got to interrupt
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  Speaker 3: you there, because that's not actually what the research shows exactly.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, you're on the right track, But the moment
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  Speaker 3: when that baby is born, I mean, kinlie, I remember
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: being at the birth of each of our children, and
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: standing there sobbing as I stared at you and said,
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  Speaker 3: you're the most amazing person in the world, and I
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  Speaker 3: can't believe what you've sacrificed and how incredible you are.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: And look at this baby, this little bundle of perfection,
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  Speaker 3: and we've wept together and we've held this baby, and
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  Speaker 3: we said.
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  Speaker 2: That didn't last very long. Although I remember, is you
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: winged about how sore your arms were after having a
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: massage my bag.
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  Speaker 3: My massage your back for like two days straight in
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  Speaker 3: one of those labors. You don't know what pain is. Anyway,
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  Speaker 3: I have bruises to prove well, you were asking for
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  Speaker 3: me to massage your back.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to bruise you anyway.
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  Speaker 3: The thing is, we were looking at each other and
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  Speaker 3: I remember saying something along the lines of it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: get any better than this, and as you're right.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: A couple of days that was about the peak. It's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: all downhill from it. I mean, we jest, but you
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: think about it.
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  Speaker 3: The number of questions that we get via podcasts at
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: happy Families dot com dot au, the feedback that we
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: get on Facebook, the conversations that I have with parents.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: When I'm presenting in webinars or live events, parents are
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: consistently saying, I'm worried, I'm stressed, I'm fearful.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: This is hard. I never thought it would be like this.
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  Speaker 3: Parenting seems to be a never ending downward spiral of fear, anxiety, stress,
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  Speaker 3: and sadness, if you want to look at it in
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: that way. And I think we need to have an
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: honest conversation about it, because what was it with our
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: kids in the first three, six, twelve months. What were
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: the things that realisted about to you that made things
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  Speaker 3: hard and made us unhappy.
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  Speaker 4: The top of the list would have been sleep deprivation,
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  Speaker 4: like complete and utter exhaustion, and then the fact that
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: we'd gone from you know, this, this full honeymoon state
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: of marriage where it was just you and I and
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  Speaker 4: we didn't have to share ourselves with anyone else.
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  Speaker 1: Sleeping in. Do you remember sleeping in? I'm just saying, oh,
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  Speaker 1: you never let me sleep in. Actually I didn't.
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  Speaker 3: We used to get up and go down to the
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  Speaker 3: beach at Yrpoon when we were living in Rocky and
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  Speaker 3: we did all sorts of activities down the boat.
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  Speaker 1: We got to do that, We got to choose to
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  Speaker 1: wake up early. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, once you have kids, Is it wake up time yet?
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  Speaker 3: And it's three o'clock in the morning, Yeah, daddy, is
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  Speaker 3: it time to get up yet?
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  Speaker 1: No, it's not time to get up.
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  Speaker 4: But there's also the physical strain on your body, you know,
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  Speaker 4: there's just the lack of opportunity to be together as
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  Speaker 4: a couple and to spend intimate time together. You're exhausted,
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  Speaker 4: but you're still crave to be in each other's space
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  Speaker 4: and to have you know, uninterrupted conversation. There's you know,
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  Speaker 4: financial strain because for many of us we end up
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: leaving work to have children, and then the strain that.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: That puts on families. But there's lots going on.
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  Speaker 3: And that's just in the first few months, and not
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: to mention things like mastitis and you've got your post
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: birth pains, and it's like, hang on, this was supposed
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: to be the pinnacle, and it kind of is, and
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: then it gets really hard. But then over the subsequent years,
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  Speaker 3: as the kids get older, you start to deal with
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  Speaker 3: i don't know, like sibling challenges and you find out
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  Speaker 3: that there are some health issues or there are learning difficulties.
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  Speaker 3: They get to school and they can't make any friends
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  Speaker 3: like it continues to be hard, doesn't it. At no
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: point do parents ever sort of say to me, this
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: turned out being a lot easier than I imagined.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, you add depression or anxiety
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  Speaker 2: or any other number of health challenges to the mix,
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  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, it's just a really big
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  Speaker 2: challenging space that can often feel like you're in a
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  Speaker 2: big black hole.
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  Speaker 3: Don't we sound like down as actually? If I can
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  Speaker 3: just pick up on that point though, And I know
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  Speaker 3: we've made a little bit of a joke about some
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: of these things, but research studies have shown that when
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: a child is born, parents actually measurably experience a decrease
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: in happiness. Marital satisfaction often drops, and that usually doesn't
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  Speaker 3: recover for many, many years.
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  Speaker 1: In some cases.
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  Speaker 3: What we find is that children provoke arguments among couples.
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  Speaker 1: How do we discipline them? What are we going to do.
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  Speaker 3: About how many extracurricular activities we go to pay for?
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  Speaker 3: And how much stress we're going to bring into our
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  Speaker 3: lives because of this kid.
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  Speaker 1: More than money, more.
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  Speaker 3: Than work, more than in laws, more than annoying personal habits,
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  Speaker 3: more than communications styles, more than leisure activities, commitment issues,
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  Speaker 3: bothersome friends, sex. I'm quoting Jennifer Senior here in her
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: book All Join, No Fun, and she basically says, as
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  Speaker 3: the kids that provoke our most frequent arguments. And if
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: you're not sure if that's true or not, spend a
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  Speaker 3: full day with an angry two year old or an
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: upset fifteen year old and you find out what she
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: means soon because these conversations, I mean, you and I,
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: we have conversations every day about the kids and their
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: social media or screen news, or the way they're treating
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  Speaker 3: their sisters, or the way they're talking back to us.
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  Speaker 3: Children provide NonStop conversation points for parents, and the conversations
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  Speaker 3: always pleasing.
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  Speaker 2: Children of the conversation list at the dinner table, what.
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  Speaker 1: Would we have to talk about?
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  Speaker 3: So, now that we've had this depressing conversation about how
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  Speaker 3: kids really do ruin your life, it's not actually true,
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  Speaker 3: even though the research says that it is true. There
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: is some there are some really interesting ways that we
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  Speaker 3: can respond to what the research shows to help us
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  Speaker 3: to find the real joy in family life.
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  Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that right after the break.
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  Speaker 1: It's the happy Families podcast.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: of Disciplined as a webinar to help parents set limits
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: with love, compassion, humanity. Find it now at happy families
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: dot com dot au slash shop.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now And I'm wondering
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  Speaker 2: if happiness is actually what we're looking for Doctor Justin.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's a really really important question to ask because
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  Speaker 3: most parents, when they're asked about having children, will say
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  Speaker 3: that it's one of the best things that they've ever
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  Speaker 3: done in their lives, which is kind.
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  Speaker 1: Of strange, because not happy, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: I'm curious as to why parents say that rather than
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  Speaker 3: it's one of my great regrets. And yet when I
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: and by the way, the research shows that the more
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: kids you have, the harder life gets you. And I
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: have six children. You'd think we would have learned after
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  Speaker 3: one or two, but no, we kept on going and
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  Speaker 3: six kids across fifteen years. It really does turn life
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  Speaker 3: into to one great, big, challenging adventure. So I think
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  Speaker 3: that there are a few plausible reasons, a few useful
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  Speaker 3: ways for us to navigate this. And you found an
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  Speaker 3: article online in the Atlantic that asks a really important question.
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  Speaker 2: He poses this question, what if the rewards of having
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  Speaker 2: children are different from and deeper than happiness.
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  Speaker 1: Wow? That's deep, isn't it. I mean, what an important question.
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  Speaker 4: I think about the times when I'm happy, and I
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  Speaker 4: kind of feel like they're quite fleeting moments. I don't
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  Speaker 4: feel like happy is something that I would describe about
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  Speaker 4: my life in general or in my day to day happenings.
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  Speaker 4: But I feel really happy when I'm eating my favorite
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  Speaker 4: ice cream. Or I can feel really happy in a
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  Speaker 4: moment when I look into your eyes and I see
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: you looking back at me lovingly. Or I can feel happy,
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  Speaker 4: you know, walking along the beach. But those moments are fleeting.
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  Speaker 4: They don't stay with me for very long.
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  Speaker 3: Colie, I love the way that you said that, And
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  Speaker 3: what you're really getting at is that happiness is an emotion.
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  Speaker 3: Emotions come and go. They're like waves on the ocean shore.
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  Speaker 3: They come and they go, and we're happy and then
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: we're content, and then we're blissful, and then we're frustrated,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: and then we're stressed, and then we're happy again and
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: we're feeling relieved. These emotions they come and go throughout
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: our day, and they give us information that help us
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: to adjust what we're doing because we always seek comfort.
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  Speaker 3: Of course, having children doesn't make you comfortable. But there's something,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: like you said, something deeper than happiness, something that's more pervasive,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: more more stable than happiness, which is that fleeting emotion.
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  Speaker 3: And psychological research is call this life satisfaction. And life
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: satisfaction isn't something that's fleeting. It's a more stable view.
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  Speaker 3: It's kind of like well being. It's how we feel
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: on average most of the time, even though there's the
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: peaks and the troughs, the waves that come in and
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: go back out. Life satisfaction is in general, I feel
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: good about my life or I feel lows about my life.
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  Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is, no matter how tedious and
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: tiring children can be, they improve our life satisfaction. They
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: improve our well being. Even though they exhaust us, and
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: even though they've got these diagnoses or they've got these
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: problems at school and they're not learning well and they're
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: not progressing according to the developmental milestones, even with all
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: of that, they increase our sense of life satisfaction for
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: one key reason, and that is meaning and purpose. It
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: seems that when we look at our children and feel
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: that they are bringing meaning and purpose into our lives,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: no matter how negatively they can affect our overall experience
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: of happiness, they still boost our well being. There's something generative,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: there's something deeper, something so meaningful about having kids that
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: makes that happiness inconsequential compared to the satisfaction we feel.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: You know, we laughed about it at the beginning of
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: the podcast and talked about how it was about day
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: five for us that we realized that life was not
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: going to be everything we had hoped and expected for.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: But I remember just that feeling and sense of meaning
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: and purpose that arrived the moment that baby was placed
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: in my arms, and how that changed my entire perspective
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  Speaker 4: about life in general. I had enjoyed a beautiful, beautiful
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: life before we had children, but I found a sense
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: of purpose and a sense of meaning that I had
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  Speaker 4: never understood until that moment.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a richness.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just wondering, though, you said when that child was
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: placed into your arms, of the six child.
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  Speaker 1: Which child?
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  Speaker 4: What are you talking about let's just give Really, we
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: visited that each moment because pretty much your description of
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: that first birth was revisited five more times.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I was curious, what makes you think it was
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: the first birth I was talking about.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. You cried at all of them.
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  Speaker 1: I know you had to bring that up. Thanks so much.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Let's wrap this up. Our conversation is to finish here.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: The research is clear having children is not good for
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: your happiness, particularly in countries where there is less support
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: for parents in a structural and societal way. But sometimes
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: we need to remember that there's more to life than happiness.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: We're talking about something deeper, satisfaction and purpose and meaning.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And when you ask people about their life's meaning and purpose,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: parents in the research consistently say that their lives have
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: more meaning.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Than those of nonparents.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: There was a study by Roy Baumeister, who you and
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I have had Roy and his wife Diane in our
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: home for dinner. I mean, just one of the world's
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: foremost psychological research is and such a lovely guy. And
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: he found that the more time people spent taking care
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: of their children, and the more meaningful they said their
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: life was, even though they reported that their life was
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: no happier. I think that's really what the purpose of
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: this podcast is. Whether your kids make you happy or not,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: it's kind of not the point.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: They enrich your life.
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  Speaker 3: They make it more meaningful, and spending time with them
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: is the magic pill. It's the silver board, it's the
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: thing that makes it work. So the take home message
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: kids may not be the most fun all the time.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: They may be a drag on your well being, but
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: they can make you rich, they can make life meaningful,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: and over time, especially once they move out and you
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: get to watch them from a distance, they really do
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: make you happy.
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  Speaker 1: We really hope that you enjoyed this.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Conversation and that has given you some insights around my
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: family life feels the way that it does sometimes, and
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: if you're not loving family life all the time, maybe
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: you don't need to feel so guilty about it now,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: because the research shows you're not necessarily supposed to. The
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Media and Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Thanks so
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: much for listening. If you enjoy the podcast, could you
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: please do something for us? Jump onto podcasts and leave
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: a five star rating and review. When you do that,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: other people find out about the podcast, and we get
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: to enjoy including them into these conversations and making their
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: families happier and always, we welcome your feedback via podcasts
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: at happy families dot com dot au. If you'd like
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: more and FO about making your family happier, and particularly
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: if you like more and FO about our upcoming Bringing
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Up Boys Summit, please visit us at happy Families dot
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: com dot au