Latest / 100% Maybe / Ep. 53 - Hebrews: Once For All Time

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Ep. 53 - Hebrews: Once For All Time · 100% Maybe

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you made it.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: You made it to 100% baby.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Again.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all are good, and thanks for jumping in with us.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, today, this is not Scott.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kat.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I am not Scott.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I what a treat we have in store for us.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sweet.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm looking forward to it.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is I always have fun.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is fun.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's fun for me.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's fun for everybody.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it's good.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It gives a chance to have a minute to to uh think through it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Talk it out.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Talk it out.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I are you an external processor, much like your redheaded pastor?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh probably 50-50.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have I have times when I have to like work through it myself and then and then I do have to talk about it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure it makes sense.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is good for me.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually not.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a total internal processor.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to kind of stay on track and do my do my study and then kind of pull out the threads, I think, because they don't it doesn't I have to sit with it usually for for a bit before it comes out.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Marinate on it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's even what happened last week.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had a a very not fully formed thought that ended up on the cutting room floor because I was like talking and Scott goes, I have no idea what you're saying.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really either yet.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Good to know.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if that happens this week, we can we can chop.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel way better now.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't there's some episodes I barely make an edit.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a conversation, but there it's not always like that.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I feel better now.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we usually make it work.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we are.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just jumping in, this is week what four of Hebrews, week four out of five total.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a lot, man.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I have said that phrase.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is a lot.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: A lot this week.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we're up through chapter seven.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so this week we are doing eight, nine, and ten.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: No big deal.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a lot of information.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of amazing takeaway hold on to truths, I think.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much, it's almost like how do you hold on to it all in some ways.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I I don't know that you can in like one sermon or or even just one podcast.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: It it this is and these chapters, this book is is one that people have spent their entire lives studying.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So library's full of of study on this.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just in general question, what what has been interesting for you or good for you as far as just taking the last three, four weeks and really done a deep dive in Hebrews?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think one of the things that I I have I've grown to love just as we've been going through Hebrews is is just the reminder of the importance of getting into different parts of scripture, but then also there's so much in Hebrews that echoes back to the Old Testament and in the importance of getting into the Old Testament and studying, studying our roots.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because it it wasn't just a period of time that that happened that we can forget about.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like God was in the details from the very beginning, and there was lessons for us to learn then and for us to learn now from then.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think uh one of the things Pastor Scott said early on when we were going into Hebrews was like it's almost like every few verses, like you can link back to something in the old testament.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and so it's it's rich in that sense.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's been fun going on like a little scavenger hunt trying to find the different connections.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this, the author of Hebrews, again reminder, we don't know who it is, but the audience was a Jewish audience who believed in Jesus as the Messiah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the the overall context is facing persecution, facing difficulties.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there was the tendency to go back to what they knew, to go back to that old system of worship, and he's yeah, reminding them and laying out this thesis almost about let me tell you exactly why you shouldn't do that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's because Jesus actually fulfilled all of the system.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know the system, it doesn't connect as much to understand what Jesus has fulfilled.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's harder to maybe grasp all the pieces of it, but uh, but that's where we get in and we study and we we learn.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: We were I was just sitting in a Bible study and and all the questions that were coming out of of uh like trying to better understand and hold what what sacrifice meant back then, um, what covenants were, uh why, you know, why people believe certain things.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's there's so many layers to this.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, probably not gonna get into all of that today.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: We might be here.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: This might be the record for the longest podcast if we did.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so where where are we starting off?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it's always nice when the writers of scripture tell us here is the main point.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's really helpful.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that nice?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: It it is.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to really dig too deep.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, in fact, uh, would you like me to to read that part?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So in in in chapter eight, um, it actually opens literally saying the main point.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the main point is what we are saying is this we have such a high priest who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary, in the true tent that the Lord and not any mortal has set up.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then it goes on.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what what we're getting in chapter eight is is really connecting back to what we talked about last week with the high priest and Melchizedek and all that, and that Jesus is is this new priest, and that he's so much more superior.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's greater, as we we keep saying in in all of the sermons.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but part of what makes him great is because of what he did as that high priest, and that's what we're gonna get into in eight, nine, and ten.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe we'll get into a little more nine.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know you mentioned you'll probably have to paraphrase a lot of eight because it is continuing some of the thought we had from last week about the high priest.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we talked a lot about that on the podcast last week, and what the role would have been, and his point is you know, how the problem would have been Jesus was Judah, not Levi.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was that whole connection.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked quite a bit about that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yours said was it tent, heavenly tent?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: What was the trans?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's see.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um a true tent.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: True tent.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: The true tent, yeah.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this says heavenly tabernacle.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So tent, tabernacle.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, very yep.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: There, um, which I know that's an idea that that we'll get into.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: We will, yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um anything else like to to add just to that high priest idea?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think I think it's it's really setting up, like I said, for for the rest of eight and and nine.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's some other threads in here.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because what what they're starting to do is painting this picture of yes, Jesus uh came to earth as that as that priest for us, but then he also entered into heaven as that priest.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so he holds like these dual roles.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so we start seeing this comparison really in eight and then into nine of of what our earthly understanding of tabernacle and sacrifice was versus the heavenly understanding.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And because Jesus was that bridge between the two, um, that's why he is so much more superior and why this new uh new opportunity or new pathway is open to us.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it it goes into more of that in eight.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a it's actually the longest quote of Old Testament um scripture in the New Testament when you get into verse eight of chapter eight.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're quoting Jeremiah 31.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's just this beautiful um explanation.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a few authors call these bookends because they use Jeremiah 31 twice, actually, um, in these next few chapters, but it goes into um a lot of details.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that really sticks out in that is is this idea of of I will or or God will, Jesus will do these things.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so in the past with these different covenants, the God's people messed it up.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we just we just couldn't quite get there.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so God's really coming in and saying, okay, like it's time and and I'm gonna do this now.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna take take the reins and we're we're gonna set the things right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you see that that I will statement multiple times.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you also see the term mediator or Jesus referred to as as the mediator.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's really that that liaison, that person who's who's advocating for us, but who can also still relate to us.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so so you have this beautiful blend of like, yes, God through Jesus is doing these things, but he can also speak effectively to both sides, the heavenly and the earthly.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, that's so rich.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one takeaway, I think, for me, is when you think about when we're talking about the old, old covenant, the new, it's maybe easy to think, well, well, God changed his mind, or God decided to do something different.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to note this was prophesied.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it, Jeremiah 31.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: God's plan all along was always to do this.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so the idea of a new covenant, a better way, a restoration, a forgiveness of that was something that they would have wanted and known about and looked forward to.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there was then this question about well, who is it?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then it's obviously the author's making the case.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's Jesus, and he's done it, he's fulfilled it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you how and why.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what it all points to.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um, that was just a a newer thought for me is realizing, okay, you know, this the new covenant, that idea was not a new idea.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it was new in the sense of it had been accomplished at this time.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um a hundred percent.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, uh there's there's so much just on the topic of covenants that we we could get into.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um but specifically, this is this is that that kind of concluding point.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Really, all the covenants in some form or fashion prior to this final covenant all pointed to this point.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: They all pointed to Jesus.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: They were all getting the people, getting God's people to a place where they could truly hold and grasp what God was doing.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we're still wrestling through that today.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there was diff listening to different uh podcasts and sermons on this, and and there was one that I heard that explained covenants like this, that it's God has a story, like we're part of God's greater story, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And over time, as we mature in our faith, we get to these points where we're ready to handle maybe a little bit more.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's almost as if God's handing us like another page to the story to be like, okay, all right, like you've gotten to this point.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a little bit more.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to understand another little bit of the picture, the bigger picture.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so he reveals that through these covenants and and it it adds layers and and uh richness to the relationship that we have with him.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then the writer's like, you know what?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Never mind, you're too dull to understand.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna move on to something else.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: He does he does that, I think, twice in these chapters where he's like, okay, so we're gonna go down this rabbit hole, but not quite that far.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now I need you to come back and like get back to the main point.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and if you want to like college study level on that, like go do that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Come see me later.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, come see, yeah, I'll see you after class kind of thing.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you want to talk about the tabernacle?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: We let we maybe a little bit.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: We can talk about it's talk about the tabernacle.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Just a little bit.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and I said this actually in the Bible study.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: We were just in.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I would love to get into all the details of this, but we don't have time.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a really important piece in chapter nine that I I want people to hold.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Chapter nine goes into this explanation of of the components of the tabernacle, how it was laid out, and then for the priest, the process and who was allowed into certain layers or areas of the tabernacle, it's a lot like there's a lot there.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what what I really took away from it was when you talk about covenant relationships, which God's people were in with God from the beginning.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: We we've always been in a covenant relationship with God.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: What was happening at this point right before Jesus came into the picture was there was some say they uh use the term distance, some say barriers, uh limitations.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: There was there was a literal physical distance that the average Jewish person had between them and God.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh when you talk about the tabernacle, there's these these places where so you would have the priestly line uh from from the tribe of Levi, they could go into a certain section of of um the tabernacle, but then um I think you had to be like the descendant of Aaron to be considered for a high priest, and you only were given that honor every like once or very rarely, and you only were allowed to go into like the most holy of holies within that place once a year, um, and only one time, and only for a very short amount of time.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and so what is happening here is there's there's these limitations, like as you draw closer to that most intimate connection with God, like the the scope of who has access to that is is narrowed and narrowed and narrowed and narrowed.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we learn in chapter nine is that like Jesus comes online and literally rips that open.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, no longer are there going to be these barriers and these divisions between me and my people.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it talks about um the law being written on the tablets versus on our hearts.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's almost as if like God's like ripping open our chest and like putting his mark on us and saying, no, like this relationship is going to be with us together now.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing is going to stand in the way.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and so, like, if if people take anything away from this chapter nine and the tabernacle and all the components that make up it and that process, it's a that Jesus came and like made that that personal relationship possible.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even going back to what was promised by God through the prophets Jeremiah when he's quoting it about the law in their mind and write it on their heart, I will be their God.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You do see that personal connection.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: God always wanted to be known by his people and fully accessible.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: But there's there's the component of God's holiness, and then there's the issue of our sinfulness.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So those things had couldn't coexist and had to be reconciled, which is why this is all such amazing truth about what Jesus has accomplished for us.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And even thinking when you're talking about the Ezekiel, you know, take out their heart of stone and give them one of flesh.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these are always the promises of God that are now fulfilled in Jesus.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And even in 8, 9, 8, when he's talking about the the entrance to the most holy place was not freely open as long as the tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you see, he was saying, and as long as these things were in place, there was there was a gap there, there was a barrier.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So all the more amazing that he's then making this case that um, which I know we'll get to in 10 a little bit, there was there's a note about that that imagery there about um the curtain that I want to get your thoughts on.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is just the the coolest visual.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, just just uh is is that uh from those two in that idea, I guess, what what would be your hope uh speaking about it that would be a takeaway for for somebody in understanding that maybe because hey, I don't fully understand, I'm gonna spend a long time kind of studying the rest of this, but what can I take away from this today?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think I think it's that first that the the way has been open to us to have that intimate relationship with God through Jesus.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think for the Jewish people, they had all these barriers in place.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what maybe we have a tendency of doing is putting up barriers today.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not trying to like compare our lives today with like the tabernacle and what the Jewish people dealt with then, but like just think about our day-to-day lives.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the things that we put as excuses or as like or disqualifications that limit us being completely raw and honest with God?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like He knows all of that stuff, but like let let's let's be honest.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't have enough time, like life's too busy, or even going down the road of like if if people really knew what my life was like, they would never think that I belonged in a church, or they would never see me worthy of praying to God.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we we disqualify ourselves.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what what we're doing is literally recreating some of these barriers that Jesus came and destroyed.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so why why?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like why why do we do that to ourselves?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that most of that's self-imposed?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's self-imposed, it's society, like and and I think it's our human nature.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: We we get in our own heads, and but I think throughout Hebrews, we're we're reminded of like yes, Jesus is greater than all of it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like he he's he's greater than than these systems, he's greater than than all of the story that's happened to this point.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he's also greater than the things that we I think disqualify us.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so just just anchoring in that so that we don't we don't drift back, we don't slip into some of the things that would prevent that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, grace is not just I guess God deciding not to punish us, but there is then the next layer of us being able to come freely without hiding.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: We truly are.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think it I think it is that we we tend to to guard ourselves even though God He already knows all.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: He knows, but it's it's a willingness for us to surrender it, to be like, like, yeah, I know you know.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I like I know you know God, but but I'm willing to release it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get into 10.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: 10.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are we read you are we reading all of 10?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are we doing on Sunday?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna read it's a lot.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm not gonna read all of it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I'm probably gonna pick up because again, there's a lot of repetition in here.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably gonna pick up around like verses 10 or 11 of chapter 10.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because what what it starts to get into is that this concept of of once and for all.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And in Jesus, in the sacrifice and in the the actions that he took as that high priest, it was it was fine.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was final.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was there was no need for anything to happen after that.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um in in verse 11, it it starts to talk about um how the earthly priests would have to sacrifice over and over and over again, year after year, the blood that was shed covered sin for a time, but then they would have to do it again.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in what Jesus came and did, his blood, his sacrifice was so much greater that it covered everything that was in the past and it covered everything in the future.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it covered all of time.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so it I think that's really cool.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then there's this other imagery of Jesus sitting down at the right hand of God.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when when you talk about like the tabernacle and the sacrificial process, whenever the priest would enter in to like the holy of holies, there was no chairs.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like they they came in, they did what they had to do, they were reverent, respectful, and they got out.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't lounge in the most holy place.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: You did not kick back and have a conversation with God.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like this was this was um like a very formal thing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so just having the imagery of Jesus sitting down is saying, like, this is complete.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's finished.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can rest.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like we are, we are done.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I think that that's just like a kind of a cool image to to pull out.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then it goes in quotes again.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Jeremiah talking about that the law is going to be written on their hearts and in their minds.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Again, that this is not just some stone tablets we're going to carry around and reference from time to time and then create all these extra laws.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is something so much greater that this isn't, this isn't just a set of guidelines for you to live by.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is true transformation.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: That like I'm taking your heart and making it new.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can we pull on that thread a minute?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: It just sparked a thought though.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the the internal transformation versus external religion.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: What does that actually look like for us day to day?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe what we even mentioned is that the barriers we put up, you know, is is is representative of a religious thing and a feeling we have versus understanding transformation.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the first thing with transformation is that it that it's it's not instantaneous.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like transformation is something that takes place over time.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: When when when Jesus comes into our lives, like it's an incredible experience and moment what then starts the transformation process.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And in it's something that it's it's this refinement.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you are going to still make mistakes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's examining your heart, examining what God wants of you, and then making incremental changes to be more like Christ.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've always been an advocate or or love love that idea of being an apprentice to Jesus and and having this mindset of like I'm gonna forever be a student of the life that he lived.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And by doing that, like we're constantly learning how to adjust our lives to be more in line with the heart of God.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I think that's that's the transformation.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not just it's not just the internal how we connect to God, but it also shows up in how we connect to our neighbors.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And how we look at ourselves too.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I've had some conversations recently with people about that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we we get we have a lot of focus on the the vertical with us and God and like how that spiritual relationship looks.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have we do the work on on how we interact with our neighbors and how God wants us to to show up.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then I think sometimes we overlook like how how are we supposed to see ourselves and and see ourselves through God's eyes.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so transformation helps with all of that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's the the growing process of all that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's real good.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we gotta talk about 19 and 20 though.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: 19 and 20.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I I had somebody say that this was the hinge point of Hebrews.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like going into 19, like we see this massive shift.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And everything from chapter one through chapter 10 and a half to this point, there's there's a shift that takes place.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Everything prior to 19 was painting the picture of who Jesus is, what he's done for us.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then 19 forward, um, because of this truth, how are we to live our lives today?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's the hinge.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: You get a and so or therefore.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big therefore.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the ultimate therefore.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's been lots of therefore's in this.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I actually wanted to go through and count because there's been lots of therefore's.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: But this is like if you could bold it and put it in all caps, it's like the main therefore for Hebrews.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, give us those verses.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, therefore, my brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart and full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from the evil consciousness of our bodies, washed with pure water.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let us hold fast um to the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who has promised is faithful.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: I like I like I could just read that, and that could be the whole the whole thing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it because it really does highlight everything that we've just talked about.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's the so what?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's what what are we doing next?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So right, so Jesus came, He he's greater than the angels, greater than Moses, like uh established this divine divine rest.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we've talked about all of this.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: He he's greater, uh established a greater covenant, greater promises, high priests sacrificed all the things.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So what?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So now, and it's and it's a call of all of us, which is another shift in this.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: You see the us statement, and so it really shifts from like a teaching posture to a we are in this together.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let us approach the true heart or approach with a true heart and full assurance of our faith with our heart sprinkled clean.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is something that we're all moving together on uh because of everything that Jesus did.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we have this new way of life to to go and lead.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's so good.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want the coolest visual uh through the curtain there at the crucifixion upon his death, the curtain in the temple was actually torn into.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Three of the four gospels highlight that piece, and I I immediately like uh zeroed in on that too.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this is not like a little dainty curtain in your house, top to bottom, torn.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: This was could not you couldn't get through this thing, and this was huge, yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And going back to what I was talking about, like with painting the picture of the tabernacle and everything in that process, like those divisions, those those barriers for people to to access God.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't, I know not a hundred percent, maybe a hundred percent for sure that that curtain being torn was like God saying, Okay, like no more.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I I am I am connected to you in a way that we've never been able to have since the garden.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, I have a question.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote this one down.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-oh.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I wanted to get it right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if Jesus, and it all hinges on those verses, if Jesus has has already opened the way into the presence of God, how different do our lives look or can our lives look if we took that to heart and actually lived that out?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Man, like everything, like everything could be different.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not to say that that the trials of this world aren't going to still be there.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it's how we carry ourselves through it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's anchoring ourselves into a hope that goes beyond this life, right?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: That the that the trials um are gonna still come, but like this this isn't ultimately our destination.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and I think it speaks I think your question speaks specifically to the people that this was written for.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because life wasn't easy for them either.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it in if we kind of zoom out for a second and remember Hebrews as a whole, in a in a few short years after they uh believed that this was written, the temple would be destroyed.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um the the powers were gonna come in, the temple was gonna be destroyed, um, and everything that they knew to that point was going to be in shambles and so of the Jewish faith.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: And there was there was a very real, I guess not not comfort, but there there was a a real tendency to say, hey, like there's persecution, there's people who who are pressing me.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I don't it's not easy going forward.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So why not just slip back into what I know?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um now they didn't know that the temple was going to be destroyed at this point.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: God did, you know, and so the timing is is is perfect because God is God, you know, and and so there's there's this whole new life laid out before them.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, we have this tendency to go back into what's familiar.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we do that today.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we still do that today, where we'll we'll go back into our comfy places because it's secure.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: But if we can step out boldly, step it step in faith into into this new life that God wants for us.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: The the promises in the it says where where does it say in here?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: It talks about the things that you'll receive um by by turning to this path, like choosing this life.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like there the things that you are going to receive are so much greater.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um like relationships, your home, um, work, like in everything you get a different perspective.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean like you're still not gonna have a a an individual at work who like drives you crazy.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that maybe like you have this relative who who constantly gets under your skin.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: All of that can still be there.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: But you have a changed mind and a changed heart to where you can still love those people and you can still see God's greater story unfolding in front of you.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it can't be lost that the these people were facing true peers persecution for for believing.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's easy to maybe question why they they wouldn't have embraced this fully, but this was believing in Jesus cost them something.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and even um, you know, the it wasn't a political victory, it wasn't a a national victory, like their things did not go well after this for them.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So even more does this ring greater to know that it's not about the earthly to his point.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's about calling you to something so much different and greater, though the the earthly trials are are very real and true.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think I mean being so far removed for us, I I don't even think we can really imagine.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And even though there are there are places today where you're absolutely persecuted and uh following Jesus could cost you your life.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know if we fully realize how good we have it here to be able to do this and worship freely and do the things we do, but it doesn't mean that our hearts aren't um in a lot of trouble and in a lot of tension and that God still wants to give us that rest, what whatever we're facing, because he he he cares, cares for you, knows you, and and wants to deliver you.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that burden's supposed to be light.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Anything on the last kind of it's it's a warning, it's it's a reminder, and it's kind of funny because he's saying, our your sins are forgiven, forgotten.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's also saying, but but don't go on sinning, don't choose to sin.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it does still matter, like what what we choose to do matters.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think it's I I think you have to be be careful calling it a warning.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: And in and it is, but but it's it's to remind you of the hope and the promise that is there.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like that there is there is something good and why would you walk away from it?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think sometimes we can get caught up in some of these these warnings is like is fear and and um like rah, don't do this, but like it's more don't don't why would you choose that way when you could choose this way?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you could choose hope, when you could choose grace, when you could choose this way that God has opened for you, why, why, why not?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why not?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And almost not to your point earlier, struggle with sin is very real and ongoing.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not what he's talking about here.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's talking about, I think, the complete rejection of Jesus as all these things.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, not not he's not talking to the one that's like struggling there.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's talking to the one that just says, I don't, I don't believe that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or it's not it's not worth it to believe it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then and then what I what I love, and and I'm not gonna steal Pastor Scott's thunder from the next one.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I again like the mastery of the writer of Hebrews.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, like we have this this climax of we've gotten to this point, the case has been laid out, Jesus is greater, now we know what we're supposed to do.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then he goes, and he could have ended Hebrews right there.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like he really honestly could like hey, go go live the life that Jesus has has sacrificed everything for so that you guys can can know God.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then he goes on and and he he starts to paint this picture or lay out these examples of of all of these people in God's greater story who have had this ability to follow God with their faith and to to be bold in their faith enough and they didn't even have the full picture.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like their faith was at such a level that they were able to continue dealing with the persecution, dealing with the hardships, not having the full picture, but then because of their obedience, because of their faith, now we're at Jesus.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so if they can do it, why can't we?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, having the full picture, yeah.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, at least seeing seeing more of the picture.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good point.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it it's it's awesome.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is awesome.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: You excited for Sunday?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's let's go.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've got what's today, Wednesday?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I got plenty of time.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: All the time in the world.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: All the time in the world.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: This might be a totally different message by the time you get here Sunday.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Probably will.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: 100% maybe.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for being here.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the time and always enjoy it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Talking with us and talking through it.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, just so y'all heard, go ahead and read those chapters if you want to be ready.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be able to read all that scripture at night at 10.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have some time, maybe throw in Jeremiah 31.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty significant this week, too.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um read ahead, and we cannot wait to uh gather together.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Week four Hebrews.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see y'all on Sunday.