Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 429—Part-time vs Full-time. Reapplying, from India. Judge vs LBS.

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MBA Wire Taps 429—Part-time vs Full-time. Reapplying, from India. Judge vs LBS. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:17
  Speaker B: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, June 9, 2025. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:28
  Speaker A: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:30
  Speaker B: So, as most of our listeners know, you're former admissions officer from the Wharton School, current Clear Admit community manager and podcaster, and you continue to teach digital marketing for some of the top MBA programs, including London Business School. And I'm the co founder of Clear Admit, also worked in admissions at Wharton where you and I first met. And I completed my MBA from that program as well. Where should we start this week, Alex? It's been another big, big week in the war on universities, particularly Harvard. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is just, it's been really, I mean, just like one bad thing after another and it's hard to keep up with, you know, it's insane.
• 1:05
  Speaker A: I just want to clarify. I don't teach in the MBA programs for some of these top programs. I just wanted, I don't want someone to come out and say, well, Alex is claiming this. It's exact. That I focus on.
• 1:16
  Speaker B: Oh, it's executive education.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:17
  Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So you're teaching at these business schools in the executive.
• 1:19
  Speaker A: Sorry, I will correct that. No, absolutely brilliant. But, yeah, I mean, frankly, it's insane. I'm really, I get stressed about it and I live in the bottom of Cornwall. I can't imagine working as an admissions officer right now at one of the top programs that we cover and specifically at Harvard, they must be really stressed out and that, I mean, but more so the applicants and the candidates that have had these aspirations and goals for several years, and the cherry on the cake is getting that admissions offer now a huge degree of uncertainty in. Of what's going to happen over the next two or three months. And these two or three months are going to be super critical. So, you know, we hope, obviously Harvard pushes back through the courts and wins, etc. Etc. But this just, this uncertainty is. It's got to be a risk to everyone. And. Yeah. And you know, for applicants thinking of next season, it's extraordinary.
• 2:27
  Speaker B: It really is. Yeah. And so just to keep people up to speed, so as I think some of our listeners know, the government tried to prevent Harvard's participation in the student visa program, and that was struck down in the courts. And then there was a second hearing and the courts ruled the same. They said, no, Trump cannot restrict international students at Harvard. And then the US Government went to Pause. Interview. The introduction of any new interview slots for student visas as they revamp the process that they. They claim. So they're going to add social media verification, and they haven't yet indicated when they're turning back on the interview slots for your visa. So that's been stressful. In fact, an admissions director I spoke with in the last week mentioned to me that this is kind of prime time for those interviews and for scheduling. It's kind of a April, May, June kind of thing. And so this person's point of view was the government's doing this on purpose, kind of slow rolling the kind of visa interviews because they know it hurts. This is like the worst time for them to be doing it. But then I woke up this morning and saw the news that the White House has issued a proclamation that says that no international students can get visas at Harvard. Now, this is kind of the same thing, right? But I was reading an article this morning, actually in Time magazine. There's a really good article by Chad de Guzman. And he. I'm just going to read a quote from it. He basically said that Trump has escalated a standoff with Harvard University seeking another path to prevent international students from attending the school after a judge blocked an attempt to revoke Harvard's ability to enroll students. And so there's this long proclamation that you can read on the White House's website that kind of lists all the things that the administration feels Harvard has been doing that merit this kind of no more international students. So Harvard has responded saying they're going to respond in the courts. And I would hope that this is just viewed in the same light and is blocked again. But it's crazy. I mean, these are really. And it's just that sort of that roller coaster, too, because yesterday I was at an event here in Paris with business schools, and the mood is sort of like, well, the courts have struck this stuff down, so let's keep moving forward and the visa slots will open up soon. But you wake up this morning and you see another attempt to sort of cut this off. So it's really like you say, it's really difficult, I think, for students who are pawns in this political game and for the admissions professionals.
• 4:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Shocking.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. So speaking of. So yesterday I was moderating a panel with 10 schools here in Paris, and it was so much fun. We had a really nice turnout of prospective MBA candidates. And the schools here, I mean, it was a great group. It was Harvard, Stanford, Wharton was Kellogg, Chicago, Columbia, ucla, Tuck Darden, mit. So it was a great Group of schools and the deans of admissions from all of these schools. So really good conversation. And so, yeah, it's this weird vibe of like, wow, what a fun event. But then, you know, this sort of, like, uncertainty in the political stuff that puts a damper a little bit. But it was so much fun to be a part of that, and I was thrilled to moderate.
• 5:39
  Speaker A: So outside of the political conversations that you may have had last night, what else did you learn? What else did the students or prospective students that attended, what did they learn?
• 5:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, there was some interesting. I'm sensing, like, a theme here now, because this is another panel where I've heard a school and a lot of nodding head on from the other panelists talk about testing and how the test provides the school with a data point. And so the subject of waivers had come up. I'd asked the panelists about it, and the general kind of response was, this is an opportunity for you to give the admissions committee a data point to look at. And if you don't give the data point, you're kind of missing an opportunity. And I think particularly early in the cycle here, people have time to prepare for and take one of these tests. So there was a message, in my view. And again, a lot of these schools don't even allow for waivers, but there are a couple on the panels that I moderated that do. But there was definitely a little bit of like, hey, you know, take the test. Like, it's not. The test isn't everything. It's a data point. We're not going to. It's not going to necessarily sink your ship, but you're better off to have a test and give us a score. So that was coming through to me loud and clear.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: And frankly, I think it just shows better commitment to the process.
• 6:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. So, yeah, there were other things, too. I mean, a lot of stuff about authenticity, and I think some of that's, you know, maybe AI induced this idea that, yeah, AI can write your essays, but, you know, you need to tell your story in an authentic way and it needs to be, you know, interesting to read. And that's part of the problem with AI sometimes is that it's not gonna. It can't tell your story in the way that you would. Right. So. But. But there was a lot of openness around brainstorming.
• 7:22
  Speaker A: Well, yeah, I don't know about that. I'm gonna debate that with you a little bit. Right. Because I've thought long and hard about this, and as you know, I experiment with a lot of These tools and to me, the best use of AI for candidates is to tell their story best, how to best reflect exactly who they are and etc. Etc. So, so yeah, some of the language in terms of how they do that might appear a little sort of, you know, gen AI esque or whatever, but then, you know, obviously they can apply their own voice on top of it. But really using AI to examine their resume, to really understand, understand their career from different angles and so on and so forth. I think that's absolutely necessary now. And it's a role, I mean, I hate to say it, it's a role that admissions consultants have taken over several years, that maybe their role is under a little bit of threat. Unless those admissions consultants are obviously using these tools to really affect perfect how they then guide candidates. Right. So I really think good use of these AI tools can, can be really helpful for candidates, especially those that don't have the resources to all the networks to really connect like the more traditional candidates might have.
• 8:55
  Speaker B: No, I think you're making some good points and I think, you know, as always with anything like, you got to know how to use it and you know, make sure that the, you know, that you're just as you would give a recommender a ton of information about yourself before they write their letter of reference. You might make sure that you're giving ChatGPT or whatever tool you're using a lot of background information. But in any event, there was definitely an emphasis on authenticity. But I will say, and I almost forgot to say this, one of the highlights of the evening for me was I met several podcast listeners at this event, which honestly, I did not expect that to happen. We're in Paris, it's a smaller market, our podcast has a global reach. But I'm not expecting lots of people to come up to me at an event and talk about the podcast. Behold. There were a couple of people who came up and one of them was a woman who we had profiled on an episode of Wiretaps. And I wish I had the episode number, but it's just really interesting. And she was kind of an early bird, was figuring out her career goals and she thought that this show was incredibly helpful. Not just our comments on her profile when we reviewed it, but just generally kind of listening to the show. So, yeah, shout out to those folks who came up to me at the event. It was so much fun.
• 10:08
  Speaker A: I hope she says that after she's finished, finished applying and getting her options.
• 10:13
  Speaker B: I'm confident she's going to do. I mean, I learned a little bit more about her profile and I think she's going to get into a number of top schools. So in any event. So yeah, lots going on. I do want to share a couple of things we've been covering on the website. The first is that Carnegie Mellon's the Tepper School of Business have launched this program. It's called the Golub Capital Board Fellows program. And basically we did an article about it. A small number of MBA students each year, I think they're 12, 12 or 13 or some number they that get into this program. They basically are given spots on nonprofit organization, on the boards of nonprofit organizations in the Pittsburgh region where they serve as non voting members. And it's this kind of immersive way to give back to the community and be a part of, you know, kind of the nonprofit sector in the Pittsburgh area. And I just thought it was a really interesting program. It's not something you see, you know, every day coming out of an MBA program and you know, just that sort of giving back to the community. And I'm assuming somebody donated some money to run this program and such. So that was an article that we did. Kind of a cool story, I thought.
• 11:23
  Speaker A: Very good.
• 11:24
  Speaker B: We also caught up with Stephanie, who is an NYU Stern student going to be graduating this spring. She wrote a piece for Fridays from the Frontline that's about a trip she took to Brazil. And it's basically part of that Stern signature project, which is a semester long experiential program that they have. And her team worked with a company that is in Brazil. And so obviously they spent a lot of time in the classroom in New York City over the course of the semester. But then she wrote about the part of the course where she went to Brazil and learned a lot about this project was about the kind of investing ecosystem, well, impact investing ecosystem down in Sao Paulo. So it was just really interesting and she was good writer and so that's up on the site now. And then we did a whole rundown, Alex, on commencement. So so many business schools have been having graduation and so we basically did this kind of rundown. I, I think there are 18 schools that we covered who've already had their graduation and we give you kind of a glimpse into the celebrations and, and even some of the, you know, speakers who, who address students at these graduation ceremonies. So that's, I don't think we've done that before or maybe, maybe we did it last year, I don't know. But it's kind of a fun idea.
• 12:43
  Speaker A: It does sort of remind me, I think we have done it the last year or two. Was Trump invited as a commencement speaker?
• 12:54
  Speaker B: Not on any of the lists of the schools that we covered. And then the last thing we did is I guess a couple of admissions tips. So the first is we did this roundup of all the events that are happening in June. And I think this is going to be an ongoing series where we just do these roundups. Here's all the in person events happening. They had the event that I did yesterday day in Paris. Well, last week for those of you tuning in as this is airing. But but also all these other events like schools are traveling, they're out and about. And so it's a great way to just get a sort of heads up on which schools are where, when, over the course of the month. And then the other admissions tip we ran was on making your list of target schools. So for those of you who are just kind of, you know, getting started with your applications or thinking through, it's a really helpful piece that, that we run almost every year at this time of year and it includes a video that you and I recorded, Alex, about that same topic as a part of our from that Admissions Academy video series. So good stuff there. I know we have some candidates to talk about. I did want to mention though, we caught up with three alums from top business schools. And so these are, you know, we're continuing with this real human series. So we caught up with Sumeda from ese and Sumeda works at American Express as a senior manager originally from Bangalore and had done kind of a law degree, well actually dual degree in law and arts. But after business school, well, actually I'll give you the kind of pre business school. Had worked as an associate for a few years in a corporate law firm, but advising on M and A and private equity VC deals. So went off to business school at ESA, graduated in 24 and now is a senior manager at American Express. And we said like, what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of the job search? And Sumita says it's one of those things that only becomes clear in hindsight. But I wish I had taken more time to pause and reflect. The MBA is a lot socially, emotionally, financially and it's easy to get caught up in what others are doing and what you think you should be doing. Looking back, I seriously considered paths that now feel completely misaligned. Not because they made sense to me, but because they were loud and visible, slowing down to really understand the nuance of your own journey, your motivations, your pace, your version of success is something I wish I had done more intentionally. So, Alex, that's something we talk about a lot. You know, this kind of getting caught up in, what do we call it, the herd mentality in business school. But I thought that was really good advice.
• 15:39
  Speaker A: I think that's absolutely fantastic. And it also sort of reflects on the notion of coming to business school with a really well developed plan so that you don't get overwhelmed by the noise and the various other sort of distractions that might deviate. Now, obviously we've talked about other folks saying it's nice to, you know, get out of your comfort zone a little bit too, in business school and do some different things. And I agree. I think those two sort of ideas can work well together.
• 16:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:12
  Speaker A: So, yeah, this makes perfect sense.
• 16:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I remember in business school, you know, it was very tempting and I did a little bit of interviewing for, like, consulting jobs, because everyone was interviewing for consulting jobs and I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and do something in higher ed and. But I, you know, I still did some of those interviews and it probably wasn't the best use of my time, although it was kind of interesting.
• 16:32
  Speaker A: I think they have a technical term for this. Is it fomo?
• 16:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. Fear of missing out. Yeah. And the other thing is, is that some of these jobs, like consulting, you know, the recruiting process is very early in the cycle. Whereas others, if you want to be an entrepreneur or work at a startup, it's like late. So you. You're kind of sitting around and everyone's interviewing and getting their job offers, and you're like, oh, should I be doing that too, too, you know. Anyway, we also caught up with a Wharton grad, this guy named Dan, who is an entrepreneur. He's the founder and CEO of a company called Groove. And I looked them up and basically what Groove does is they make custom insoles. So if you're a runner or even just someone who needs better insoles in your shoes, they've built this system where, I guess with an iPhone, they can create from an iPhone looking at your foot, the bottom of your foot, they can basically create really good custom insoles. And this is a process that for anyone who's a runner or knows about this stuff, normally costs so much money to make custom insoles. And I think they've kind of figured out a nice way to disrupt that space. Dan went to undergrad at Brown, studied theoretical math, but he also had a sub concentration in poetry. So there you go, poet out into Quant went to Wharton obviously and you know did a little bit of corporate strategy at Capital One before business school so had a bit of a numbers background as you might expect. And we said what's one piece of advice you wish you'd been given during your mba? And he said and Alex, I did not. This is not on purpose but this fits with what you were just saying. He said soul search. Before starting get clear on what you want from your career and what you don't. Then build your time around that, deprioritizing as actively as you're prioritizing. Focus on the real levers business school offers, the people you meet, the opportunities placed in front of but not handed to you. Identify and confront your own fear based decision making. Be willing to bet on yourself, be willing to say no. So he goes on from there but I mean just great advice and spoken like a true entrepreneur. Right?
• 18:37
  Speaker A: Did you intend that punch?
• 18:39
  Speaker B: Which one?
• 18:39
  Speaker A: Well his innovation is oh soul searching insoles and then you started off with soul searching. I thought that was very clever Graeme.
• 18:48
  Speaker B: No, that's his words. I mean I just reading the quote but I didn't pick it on purpose but yeah, soul searching from the founder of an insouls company. There you go. We also got the last one that we talked to is Anika who works at Google. She's a Berkeley Haas grad and she's a product manager at Google now. Originally from Los Altos California and she went to Duke undergrad. She took a really easy major, biomedical engineering and a minor in math. We've got some real brains this week on the show here. And worked as a product manager and a global logistics manager for a couple years prior to business school. And also I think a lot of it was like health tech related. Had done quite well it looks like from some of the things on her resume here at pre business school. And we asked her what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of the job search and she said this is another key piece of advice. Said I would leverage the second year peer advisors more. I actually worked as a peer advisor in my second year and greatly enjoyed sharing my experience, getting the internship at Google and giving career and interview advice to my fellow Hossies as a first year. However I didn't leverage this program very much and I wish I had and I know these programs exist in almost every MBA program where you know you as a first year get matched with a second year like buddy programs or in this case you know it's a peer advisor but It's a. It's a good point. And it is as a first year, you kind of don't realize, you know, that it's something to take advantage of. So I'm glad that she's highlighting that.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I know at Wharton, I mean, second years, we're interviewing first years to give them interview prep, etc. Etc.
• 20:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker A: So. So, so, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, I think it's symptomatic of the type of culture that these top business schools really try to nurture and develop. Right. Very cooperative people. Really think the environments in some of these schools is quite competitive. And I'm not saying that there isn't some elements of that, but mostly they're about sort of working together and sort of increasing the impact of the overall class rather than just the individuals.
• 21:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. And speaking of that, I met another person at the event last night, a prospective MBA candidate who was in, I guess, in undergrad business program in France and went to spend some time at Fuqua at Duke. And the sort of teamwork and collaboration and the kind of culture of the school really impacted this person. So much so that they're wanting to apply to get deferred enrollment into an MBA program. So. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker A: That's part of their differentiation, I guess, or certainly part of their branding for their mba.
• 21:39
  Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Let's get into our candidates. Obviously, if you want to reach out to Alex or me, you can just write to infoearadmit.com, use the subject line wiretaps, and we'll write you back. It's always nice to hear from our listeners. And don't forget to rate and review wherever you're listening, if you can. But, Alex, anything else before we talk about this week's candidates?
• 21:59
  Speaker A: Let's kick on.
• 22:00
  Speaker B: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has seven schools on the target list. And the schools are Emory, Georgetown, Kellogg, nyu, Stern, Chicago Booth, UCLA Anderson, and uva Darden. They want to start school in the fall of 26. They've been working in marketing and IT prior to business school here, and they're thinking about consulting or technology after business school. And so they have Accenture, Deloitte, ERNST AND YOUNG, PwC, but also Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Oracle. On their list of target companies, they have a 3.3 undergraduate GPA, five years of experience to date. They're located in Columbia, South Carolina, and they would like to land in Atlanta after business school. They mentioned their male. So this is Guy has five years of work experience, male. They also mentioned mixed race. They didn't specify which race, but mixed race digital marketing and IT. They recently transitioned into a more senior IT product management role at a Fortune 500 company. They did mention that 3.3 comes from a top 50 US undergrad where they were a business major. They did some, you know, had some decent activities as an undergrad. They've taken the executive assessment. They've actually taken it twice. They got a 153 and a 151 kind of uneven performance. You know the lower score actually has a better quant result than the higher score. So they do some other things outside of work as well. They give lectures to small business owners at a local library about leveraging paid and organic search for business growth and they participate in some environmental cleanups in their neighborhood. That's something they're very passionate about they say. And they say that the main goal post MBA is to get into product management at a big tech firm, hopefully Google and they'd love to be involved in the development of a digital product from inception to launch. So Alex, what do you make of this? Oh I, I forgot to add. You asked them and they said they're applying to all part time programs. So even though we listed all the names, these are all part time MBA program programs, right? Is that correct?
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, that seems to be correct because I was asking them why they took the EA versus the GMAT or gre, right? Because they're told, you know, our conversation was sort of centered on their test taking and whether they should retake. So yeah, it's quite likely if they're targeting part time programs that, you know, the EA maybe that makes more sense and you know, their academic profile probably provides them access to these types of part time programs because I do think the onus for really high test scores and profiles and so forth is more to these business schools full time programs versus that part time. So that might well be the case. I'm just curious as to whether this candidate really would benefit more from doing a full time MBA versus a part time because they really have somewhat more aspirations, operational goals, they want to be a product manager in a big tech etc. Etc. And I think making that transition whilst doing a part time program will be more challenging in terms of their access to career resources, etc. Etc. So they really want to scrutinize and identify if their pathway is realistic and if they'll have access to all the sort of same resources as their full time counterparts at the school schools that they're targeting. So I would focus a lot on that and it might well be that they decide, well, you know what, maybe full time would be better because, you know, it's not like they're an older candidate which sometimes part, you know, is more favorable for part time. And it looks like they're wanting to move geographies a little bit or at least they want to be in Atlanta.
• 26:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:12
  Speaker A: Post mba, if that's the case and they want to do part time programs, do they need to move to Atlanta, join the MBA, are they able to work remotely, etc. Etc. That wasn't clear to me either because obviously if you're doing a part time program, you're doing it because you're working at the same time.
• 26:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker A: So I think there are some questions along those lines, Graham. But yeah, to me it's more, are they ideal for part time or actually should they be looking at these same programs potentially, but at their full time programs?
• 26:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, there were a lot of question marks for me because, you know, part time, but they have this like vast geography of programs they're targeting, which normally people looking at part time are usually looking to stay. You know, they're looking at the programs in their region because they have a job somewhere and now maybe this person's job is completely remote and they can, you know, do it from anywhere. And that's the idea. But I would say, you know, this person wants to be in Atlanta, they want to work as a PM in Tech. I mean, I would start with, you know, look at Emory, which is on the list. Look at, you know, Georgia Tech. Those are two terrific business schools in that market. Right. So, and then, you know, if you think about this issue of like, I, I do feel like they're, they're seeking what could be a pretty significant pivot. I mean, I recognize they are currently doing it product management, but I view that as pretty different than like going over to Google and doing product management. So I, I think that they might, at 27 years old, really benefit from a full time program that gives them the lift that they need to make this transition. And if they want to be in Atlanta, there are a host of full time MBA programs that place really well into Atlanta, whether it's obviously, as I said, Emory, Georgia Tech, but also places like Duke and Kenan, Flagler and Darden. I mean, there are a number of schools in that sort of southeast geography that could land them nice work. So I don't know, this is the thing they need to figure out whether it's part time or full time. And that would shape the school selection. And you know, and again, the ea, obviously if they want to go full time, some of these schools won't take an executive assessment test. And frankly, I mean, that was built for EMBA programs, not even part time. But yeah, a lot of part time programs will take it. I know that it's not really the same type of test as the GRE or the gmat and the schools recognize that in terms of what it's measuring. So yeah, it's a tricky thing. I, I would like to know a little bit more about this person's background. They say they're mixed race. Are they an Indian IT person so they'd be overrepresented or are they underrepresented in the pool? And I recognize those things maybe come into play a little less than they used to in light of some of the recent legislation. But it's just hard to get a feel for what they're trying to attempt and whether they're overrepresented in the pool or not.
• 29:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, very good.
• 29:05
  Speaker B: All right. Yeah, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. It's interesting to talk about part time and I recognize that's an increasing, you know, interest among candidates and there are a lot of good part time programs out there. But I just. This person needs to probably take a step back and think about what's the right fit for them. Let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has eight schools on the target list. Those schools are Berkeley, Cambridge, the Indian School of Business, London Business School, Oxford, Stanford, UVA and Yale. So a bit of a mixed bag in terms of Europe and US schools on the list wanting to start in the fall. 26. This person has been working in the public sector for the Indian government. They are interested in consulting and entrepreneurship. They mentioned Accenture, Carney, Bain, BCG, Deloitte, Ernst and Young PW see as targets post MBA. Their GMAT score they list as a 740. But they told us in the comments that It's I believe a 685 on the kind of newer version of the GMAT which technically translates to 730 or 740. It's not, there's not a direct correlation. So GPA was a 66% in the in India. So 66 out of 105 years of work experience. And they applied this past year to some programs like the Indian School of Business, Kellogg, and they were rejected. And so they're Targeting a mix of US UK and European schools and maybe even Singapore as they go into kind of reapplying. As I said, they're in India, they're an Indian male, 29 years old. They did their undergrad in computer science, science and engineering. They. One of the big things with this candidate that I'll let you get into Alex, is they have some gaps in, in employment, some due to Covid, some due to, you know, getting ready to take the kind of exam that you take to work as a administrator in the, in the government in India. So I'll let you kind of speak to that. But what do you make of this count? I mean they're kind of a re applicant or would be at some point of these schools and you know, Indian engineering background but public service kind of work experience and. Yeah, any, any. Yeah. What do you, what's your take on this?
• 31:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I like the public service work experience and I think they really need to identify a long term goal that they can get passionate about that makes a lot of sense based off of their public service and government type work. And they talk in their apply wire entry about return to India in the longer term. So I think it'd be really helpful for their profile to get passionate about what that long term sort of social enterprise type, social entrepreneurship type opportunity might be rather than just be vague about it like I might do this or I might do that. I think really putting some pegs in the ground and thinking long and hard about it and making sure it's realistic based on their profile, ambitious as well as impactful, etc. Etc. Etc. They've got these career gaps as you state this is potentially a concern but they're going to have to face this up front straight up in the optional essay and describe them. Obviously we're going to see a few more candidates like this I think with COVID creating some career gaps and the key is what did you do during these career gaps, how did you react to the situations etc. Etc. That's going to be important to articulate whilst keeping any explanations, reasons be succinct and so forth. So I think that'll be important and also just quite frankly they're going to need to be in the first round so really coming up with a robust target list, getting their ducks in a row and targeting the first rounds is going to be really, really important. Graham. So yeah, round one a really good and well developed long term goal that has a high degree of impact that makes sense based on everything that they do as well as very good sor of explanations for what are in fact several career gaps.
• 33:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I, my fear with this candidate is so, you know, I don't mind that they're a reapplicant. I mean, people reapply to business school all the time and do better the second time around. But my fear is that 685, you know, could very easily be viewed as a 730. So kind of average for some of these top schools, which is, I mean, it is amazing to have to say that because 730 is a great score. Right? But, but when you're overrepresented as an Indian engineer and when your GPA while in the top 10% of their class is still a 66 out of 100, and it doesn't sound like they went to one of the IITs or anything. So I think they risk being overrepresented and with numbers that don't jump off the page. And that's a tricky combination. So they would have to be in the first round. I do like the work experience and I like that they want to work in consulting, but in the kind of public sector branch of some of these consulting firms, so that fits. And they also want to longer term go back and have work on social impact in India, so all that fits. But they don't have a lot in the way of extracurricular activities. They mentioned they don't have much time for that and yet they have these big gaps in employment from time to time. And so I'm worried that the combination of these things may make it challenging. And you look at their target list of schools, and I think they'll probably have better luck on this side of the Atlantic, meaning in Europe, because I think some of these schools are just going to be a little bit easier to get into. But when you look at their US schools, there's not one in the bunch that's like sort of, you know, easy to get into. I mean, they picked a lot of really challenging schools. You know, Berkeley being a public state school in California, the, the APP acceptance rates are typically quite low. Stanford obviously very low. Yale kind of a stickler on, on academic profile. And so, yeah, so I'm a little concerned that maybe they're not casting a wide enough net on the US side of the Atlantic. But yeah, there's some things to work on here for sure. And I really wonder about these outside activities and how they haven't had time to do that if they've been out of work here and there.
• 35:28
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, No, I Think that's a very fair point.
• 35:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I would apply in the first round like you say and I would give some thought as to. Sometimes people say they don't have outside activities when they really, they do things. They just are assuming a kind of narrow definition of what an outside activity is. So I would encourage people to think this counted at least to think about what do they do they have spare time. Are they, you know, a runner, a biker, a sushi chef, a film buff, like what's their thing? And maybe try to bring it to like.
• 35:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I do, I do actually think they do some of that and they express that. But the point is they don't really organize anything. Yeah, they're not, they're not sort of bringing people along with them type sort of ideas.
• 36:08
  Speaker B: So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in any event. So best of luck to them. I want to thank them for sharing their profile. And as you always say second time through often people are much better at applying because they've done it before. So there'll be some benefits there too. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week is from a decision wire entry and this person can't decide where to go. They applied to two schools. They applied to Cambridge Judge, which is a one year full time MBA program and they applied to London Business School but to the new Excel accelerated MBA at LBs which is also a year long and they're looking to start this fall. And they mentioned they want to get into either consulting or tech or venture capital post MBA and they listed a bunch of companies in those three domains. They had a 685 on the GMAT, so again around 730, 740 depending on how it's interpreted. And they mentioned the big thing for them is do they go to the inaugural one year MBA at LBS or the flagship MBA at Cambridge. And Alex, you picked this maybe because I left a long comment on the post or what? What made you pick this?
• 37:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, because I'm lazy. I thought you could summarize this quite succinctly in terms of what decision they should make and then we can wrap up the show because we've only got two more minutes.
• 37:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know we're running long. Yeah. So I mean I do think it's an interesting dilemma because you have this like new one year program within a very established high ranking business school like LBs. Right. And then you have the kind of established one year program from a slightly lower ranked but very good business school at Judge and Judge is part of Cambridge, very famous university. So it's kind of an interesting kind of decision. But I think for me, the thing that I went to right away is, well, wait, do you want to be a consultant or do you want to work in tech or finance with venture capital? What do you want to do? Because I think they should let that drive this to some degree. If you talk to the career services office at wanted business school, they would be able to tell you like, where are people going? I mean, you can get the career report. So I was a little confused by that because I know of, you know, obviously Judge is really quite well known for entrepreneurship and those types of opportunities, tech, et cetera, very prevalent in Cambridge. And so I just, I wanted them to kind of do their homework on this. I will say I'm not worried about the one year MBA at LBs being like somehow lesser. I mean, I actually just did an event with David Simpson, their admissions director and we talked exclusively about the one year program. And I mean, you know, to meet the qualifications to come into that program is, is quite challenging. And so I think they're going to, you know, have a whole bunch of people who can really hit the ground running. And the other thing is, you know, when you take electives, you're going to be with the two year MBA students as well. So it's, it, you know, I think you get an LBS experience, it's just an accelerated one, so I wouldn't be worried about that. But yeah, it's, it's a tough, it's kind of a tough call because I understand their trepidation with a kind of, this is a new thing. But I would say go back to their goals and where do they fit. I mean, these are two different, you know, two different institutions and yeah, they need to figure out what they want to do.
• 39:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's a very good point. And yeah, you know, for a different candidate, judge might be the better option and another candidate could be LBs. So there's not an obvious answer. And like you say, they've got to get some more clarity on why they're doing the MBA in terms of what sort of career they're looking for in the short and the long run.
• 39:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I would also, just as a closing point, I would say they should consider, you know, one is an urban university in a, in one of the world's global cities.
• 39:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker B: The other is more of a kind of residential, small town kind of feel. And they're both great. I mean, I love both campuses, love being at both these business schools. But they need to figure out what's right for them, too, because they're not the same at all. Right. Any event, I want to thank them for sharing their dilemma. I saw that somebody put a thumbs up on the comment I left them. So hopefully it's been useful as they figure these things out. But in any event. Yeah. Alex, thanks so much. I know we ran long this week, but there's been a lot to there's been no shortage of news to cover. So, yeah, these are crazy times. And hopefully next week we'll be in a better place. And the you know that some of these things that the government's trying to do will be blocked, but we'll we'll find out.
• 40:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, we'll be in a different place, but stay safe, everyone. Take care.