Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 954: What Grant Woods Knows Now, That He Wishes He Knew When He Was Younger

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Ep. 954: What Grant Woods Knows Now, That He Wishes He Knew When He Was Younger · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the white tail woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by doctor Grant Woods. We are
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: discussing the greatest deer hunting lessons that Grant wished.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: He had learned when he was younger.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: to you by First Light.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Today we have a terrific episode.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: With one of the pre eminent leaders within our white
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: tail hunting community, doctor Grant Woods.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: And this is is a I don't.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Know, like a I'm trying to think of what the
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: right word is to describe this. This is a reflective
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: This is a looking back episode for Grant to help
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: all of us look forward.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: By that, I mean we're going to be.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Asking Grant about the greatest lessons he has learned over
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: his many decades of deer hunting experience and success. He
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: is one of the leaders in the science of white tails,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: in the management of white tails, and one of the
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: absolute best educators on all of those things and of
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: hunting white tails. If you're not familiar, Doctor Grant Woods
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: has been a longtime deer management specialist, researcher, consultant, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: more recently the last sixteen years or so, he's been
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: producing the Growing Deer TV series on YouTube, tremendous resource
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: for me and many other people over these last you know,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen years to help you become a better deer
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: manager yourself, a better deer hunter yourself. And he recently
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: released a video a couple weeks ago exploring the things
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the greatest deer hunting tips or lessons that he wished
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: he'd learned sooner, the things that he wished he knew
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: when he was younger that he does know now. And
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: they got me thinking, gosh, there's got to be a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: lot of things like that for Grant, because he's seen
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: it all. He has seen this whole kind of trend
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: of deer hunting over these last you know, twenty thirty
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: forty fifty years. He's seen how things have changed, He's
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: seen how things have evolved. He's seen every different trend
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and fad and idea that you know, the deer hunting
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: world has come up with, and he's kind of ground
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: truth that with the science, given his background as.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: A deer researcher.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So what would those greatest lessons learned be for Grant?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: What would be those things that maybe the rest of
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: us look at now it's like, oh, you got to
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: do it this way, but maybe it doesn't stand the
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: test of time. What does he wish he knew when
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: he was twenty five that he does know now? That's
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: what I wanted to ask doctor Grant Woods today. That
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: is the discussion we have. And I have to tell
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: you we'roughout the bat. You've probably noticed I've lost my voice.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I apologized, but you were going to have to bear
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: with me today, as Grant did on our.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Chat this past weekend.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Friday night, we had a new store opening, The Meat
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Eater store in Wisconsin opened up and we had it
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: must have been well over a thousand people. I don't
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: know how many, but a lot of people. There was
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: a line that strel kind of strung through the store,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: stopping to talk to me and Spencer and Chester for
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: three hours.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: We talked to folks for three hours.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Straight in this very loud room, and you know, probably
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: an hour and a half into it, maybe two hours
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: into it, lost my voice. I think I've had a
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: little bit of a tickle to throw out something going on,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and then on top of that, trying to talk loudly
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: with all his people, completely lost the voice. Then the
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: next day we had a meat Eater tailgate tour stop
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: in Madison, Wisconsin, where again loud music, lots of loud talking,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm trying to talk to people all morning. A
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: little bit voice I had left at that point completely disappeared.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So I've tried not to.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Talk to anyone for the last three days, but now
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: for this podcast had to do it. I'm still not
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: fully recovered, so bear with me. Apologies for the lack
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: of clarity with my speaking tone, but hopefully the chat
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: with Grant makes up for it, because there's a lot
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: of substance to it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: There's a lot to learn from here.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Grant someone who I've respected and appreciated for many years. Now,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that he was willing to have this
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: chat with me and with all of us that I
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: think will be a particularly important one as many of
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: our deer hunting seasons kick off, either just kicked off,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: or are about to. We discuss everything from you know,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the impacts of wind and thermals to you know, the
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: importance that Grant places on access and exit and you know,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: not educating deer, different ways to do that, different ways
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: to think about that. We talk about how his thoughts
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: on trail cameras and patterning deer have evolved. We talk
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: about how his goals and expectations have changed over the years,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and what he wished he had thought about maybe differently
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: when he was younger. So lots to cover. I think
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a lot's going to help you out. I hope you
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: enjoy this. Thanks for tuning in despite my little bit
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: of thrown issue here. So without any further ado, let's
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: get to my chat with doctor Grant Woods. All right
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: with me on the line now is doctor Grant Woods.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: Grant, Hey, Mark, thanks for having me.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you taking the time to be here,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: especially since we have tried to record this show two
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: different times now and have been thwarted by technology issues.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: So thanks for your patience and flexibility as well.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no issues, no issues.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So the inspiration for this chat, the reason why I
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: thought of you again as someone who would be perfect
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: to talk to it this time of year. Was because
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: you just released a video a few weeks ago exploring
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: some of the deer hunting ideas and tips that you
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: wish that you had known sooner. And you're someone who
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: has you know, as deep and as wide a breadth
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: of knowledge is just about anybody in our community. So
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: when I saw that I had, I got to thinking
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: like this is, these are some ideas that all of
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: us should be listening to and should be paying attention to,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: whether we are new to this or whether we've been
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: doing this for twenty or forty or fifty years. So
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: this is a long winded way of saying, Grant that
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I want us to kind of reflect today on what
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: those greatest lessons learned have been for you, what those
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: biggest aha moments have been, What some of those things
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: are that you wish you knew sooner or that you
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: wish you change sooner. And so jump right into a grant.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: If we could imagine that you had a time machine
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and you could go back to visit with your twenty
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: five year old self, what would be the single most
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: important lesson that you would like to impart with the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: twenty five year old Grant Woods about deer hunting, Where
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: would you start?
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that single lesson. There would be multiple,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: but single lesson would be that independent of amount of
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: sign or weather conditions, the most important thing is for
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: the hunter to be able to approach, hunt and exit
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: without alerting deer. Alert deer are very difficult to tag,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: So my number one priority is to be able to
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: again approach, hunt and exit. So we're thinking about thermos
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: and wind direction and visibility and sound and all these things,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: and that shoves aside. Guys, there's more sign over here,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: you know, whatever, it is that goal of being able
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: to get in without being detected and leave. You may
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: not harvest a deer you want, may not see deer
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: on that trip, but you don't want to leave a
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: bunch of signor alert deer coming and going and make
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: that area more difficult to hunt for several days.
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  Speaker 2: So, so are you saying that you would value a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: stand site that maybe, let's say is a six out
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: of ten on deer sightings but a ten out of
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: ten on access. Would that be the better place to hunt?
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Absolutely? Absolutely? And we're you know, we can't that around
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: a little bit. When I was young, I tried to
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: scout scout scout and find the most sign, and then
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: you know, develop my stand or blind or my hunting
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  Speaker 4: location there, and now I realize where there's the most sign,
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  Speaker 4: usually find the most concentrated sign in betting areas and
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: feeding areas. Feeding at that level of tensity is probably
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: not during legal shooting light and betting areas are betting
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: areas because they offer deer protection uh protection primarily from
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: swirling winds, and we just can't get in there and
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: especially get with in bow range of deer while they're there.
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  Speaker 4: So rather than hunt the most sign, I'd rather hunt
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: travel or a transition zone between that bedding and feeding,
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: or between two large groups of sign where they're just
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: passing by. They're just going by, So not hanging around
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  Speaker 4: and leaving near as much sign will probably increase my
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  Speaker 4: odds of successfully filling a tag much more be hunting
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: those areas.
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  Speaker 2: So this, this come the springs to mind, is something
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  Speaker 2: I thought a lot about lately. For a lot of years,
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  Speaker 2: I have tried many, many different ways of hunting deer,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, I certainly did the thing you described there,
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  Speaker 2: which is which is chasing where I think I'll see
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  Speaker 2: the most deer or where the most sign is. I've
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: been really aggressive. I've I've punched into the best stuff
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  Speaker 2: at times, because you know, especially in heavy hunting pressure areas,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes there's there's a belief that that's the only way
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be able to kill these deers, to really
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: get in there with them. But at the same time,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I've also seen, of course, what we all know is
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: that that does make a big impact, and you do
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: see deer become educated and deer behavior change, and I've
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: started to wonder if the predictability of deer is much less.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: So than we like to think.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And so because of that, sometimes I think to myself, well,
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  Speaker 2: I want to be in these really good places because
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I think I can predict when these deer are going
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: to be there, and I just need one hunt or
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: two hunts in this spot and I can kill them.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: But more times than not, that doesn't pan out, and
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: it seems like maybe the smarter plan most of the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: time would be to do what you're describing, which might
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: be not hunting the best place instead hunting the six
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: out of ten you know, deer activity location, but knowing
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that you can hunt it more often because you won't
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: educate deer, and so you can you can negate the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: fact that deer unpredictable in many ways, and you can say, well,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: instead of doing one hunt here and you know, because
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: it's probably not going to work out, then I blow
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: it for the rest of the chances. Instead, I'm going
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to hunt a place where deer won't know him there,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: but I can hunt it five times and maybe one
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: out of those five times he finally does come through.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Is that?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Is that the the idea here with hunting in these
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: places that are lower risk but maybe not as high reward,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: because you can just hunt them over and over again
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: until finally he does show.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's always extremes and the edge just
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: to everything. So you know, if your low risk is
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: on the back of your truck and the stuff mark
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: parking lot, you're probably you know, you're not probably not
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: getting into game a much. Now, with that said, every
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: year hunts some hunter somewhere will harvest a great deer
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: in an area that the rest of us go. My gosh,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: I would have never hunted there. My brother in law
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: as well as guys. You know, I can put the
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: guy in a garho I don't want him kill a deer,
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: and sure enough, you know on the back forty where
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: it hadn't been a deer in three years, here killed
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: that big old buck. That usually happens during the rut
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: when deer is certainly not predictable. Hunters all want to
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: hunt the rut. That's one of the worst times to
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: hunt if you're trying to pattern a deer, because there
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: is no pattern. The only patterns where Betty Lou has
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: that receptive perfume on, So the pre rut, early pre rut,
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: especially deer, I'm much more of a pattern. With that said,
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: let's be ever cautious using this word pattern. Now, if
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: you're in an extreme agg country, very limited cover, very limited cover,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: it's easier to pattern deer because they're pretty much going
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: to be better than that small cover block. If you're
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: like the bulk of hunters, and I've done this, if
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: you add up the amount of white tail tag sold,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: you know from Maine down to Florida over to East Texas,
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: you know, most of Tennessee, Kentucky, certainly where I am
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: in southern Missouri, not in northern Missouri. That's the bulk
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: of whitetail hunters. That's the bulk of licenmselves, not Southern Iowa.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: That's the minority. More TV shows are made, but it's
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: a small part of hunters and those of us that
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: are hunting. Hill country, timber country, swamps, pine plantations very
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: difficult to pattern deer. So now you try to find
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: or create if you're a manager like I am, bating
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: areas and feeding areas and maybe even manage for pinch
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: points or travel corridors narrow places to travel in between.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Now your odds go way up. Feeding areas. Again, a
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: lot of that behavior can be before or after legal shooting.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: Light Beating areas by definition protect deer. Therefore it's difficult
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: for a predator being there. That's why they choose to
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: bed there either visibility or slope or swirling winds, whatever
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: it is. And folks, I just want to share this
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: is not my only opinion. Only my opinion. I mean
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: great researchers like at Mississippi State and Penn State have
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: put bunches and bunches of GPS dollars on ye for
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: a long long time. Now there's huge data sets. We
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: know a lot about deer. We don't know everything, but
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: we know a lot and I'll tell a funny on me.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: I'm sixty four. So back in izing grad school, GPS
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: scholars were not widely known. They're really really expensive. That
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: technology was new. Not many of them deployed, and I
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: had huge observation data sets from me and many other people, huge,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: and I ran all kinds of stats and regressions on there.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: And I thought I'd figured out deer movement related to
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: the moon and deer and deer. Honting partnered with me
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: based on research i'd published. We called it DAI Deer
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: Activity Index, you know, and there's like a two through ten.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: And I was making this pretty good jingle at the
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: time for gratitude and I could buy a new gun
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: and bow in the same year, and that's I gotten
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: for graduate student. Yeah, and then GPS scholars got more affordable,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: some technology change, and all of a sudden, there's a
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: bunch deployed. And I realized I had no idea what
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: I was talking about, and actually pulled that calender off
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: the market, which was the appropriate thing to do. And
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: since then we've learned if you study declination degrees north
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: and south of the moon of the equator, their secutor
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: the moon goes and for some amount of light coming
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: off the phase and all the distance to the Earth.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: The moon has elliptical orbit, so it's not one full
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: moon's not always the same distance from the Earth as
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: another full moon. All that's been studied in great detail,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: and there is zero relationship with anything the moon does
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: anything a deer does. Zero. I know you're going to
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: get some hate, noil mark, it's just the facts. So
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: through that process, what I've learned is it's not conditions
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: that make deer move more again, it's the conditions that
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: allow me to be a better predator. The obvious question
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: is one of those conditions, Well, one of them would
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: be high pressure. Right on high pressure, our scent is
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: more likely to rise up instead of spreading out. Low
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: pressure just wants to hover on the ground and almost
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: make a scent around us where deer can't get in
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: bowt range or maybe even firearm range. So high pressure,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: I like wind. I like you know, ten to fifteen
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: miles an hour wind. I much rather have that than stilled.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: I want to know where my scent cone is going.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: I want wind, and so in hill country mountain country,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: that usually means hunting the ridge top or close to
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: it because the more you get down on that ridge slope,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: the more to wind's gonna swirl. That's why GPS collars
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: have shown that deer tend to bed on those side
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: hills in ridge country, not on the peak because winds
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: only go in one direction, but right over to side
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: about twenty degrees, that wind's going to go over to
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: the mountain and just swirl, just turn, and they can
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: sit there all day and detect predators from most of
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: the way around them.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Back to your I want to talk a little bit
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: more about some of these things that help you and
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: give you an advantage as a hunter. But one last
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: question on the conditions that impact deer movement. You mentioned
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: that moon doesn't impact deer movement. You mentioned that something
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: like high barometric pressure doesn't necessarily impact deer movement, but
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: it impacts wind and your ability to hunt without getting winded.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Is there any condition, any atmospheric or you know, weather
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: related factor that you believe does make enough of an
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: impact that you pay attention to it as a hunter.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I know that the studies show that there's nothing statistically
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: significant enough to be called out, but is there anything
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that you as a hunter know Like, yeah, but maybe
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: it's a little bit, it's enough that I think about,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: or is there literally zero that you factor on that front?
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, I still probably just from almost sentimental reasons.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I still like a high pressure moving in. I like
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: a front personally. I've seen one event in my entire
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: life or hunting career that just made deer move like crazy.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: And I was in grad school. I was seventeen miles
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: off the coast of Charleston, South Carolina, when Hurricane Hugo
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: came in. I'm a Midwest boy, you know, so hurricanes
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: didn't mean thing to me. And where I was working,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: the old plantation manager said, ah, feel like a bad thunderstorm.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: That's the worst thunderstorm I ever spent the night here,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: and I promise you that I will never spend a
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: night when a major hurricane comes in again. But the
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: day or two before that, I was going around doing
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: my research, and deer were just everywhere, just everywhere. And
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: of course before a hurricane, the brometer drops way abnormally
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: love and the manager said, Grant, you probably shouldn't harvest
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: any deer because we could lose power for a day
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: or two. By the way, we lost it for six weeks,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: but probably lose power for a day or two. You see,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: what have your way to you know, keep the meat cool.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: So we didn't harvesting deer. But as I was running
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: my transacts, I was measuring rubs and scrapes and doing
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: some work like that for my dissertation, and they were
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: just deer everywhere. That's the only time I've ever seen
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: anything like that. And you don't want to go through
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: a level four class for a hurricane to see that, right,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: You don't want to wish that one anyone. But I'm not.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: And again, the research is clear, and you use to
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: write word statistically significant. Is there some hundred that's figured
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: out how to get a one or two minute advantage
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: the deer get to your stand, you know, two minutes
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: before dark or something. I don't know, maybe maybe not.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: I have personal friends with people to have some of
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: the deer apps out there, but most of us are
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: an ad country. And again that country is very stark
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: cover food, cover food. That that's not where the vast
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: majority of white tail hunters hunt. That's the vast minority.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: And in timer country, you know, acorns on the ground
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: they can feed bed in the same area. No I've
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: not found anything that makes the significant difference, and my
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: research and many others that have certainly deployed way way
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: more GPS callers. Deer move every day, and they moved
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: on in dust. They're prepuscular. They moved sunrise and sunset.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: And I have a hypothesis of why that is. If
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: I can share that, please don't. So sun's rising, of course,
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: airs warming up in some places, open field, logging deck, whatever.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: That Sun's getting down the ground and warming up, and
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: that air is rising under the shade of trees or
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: tall grass or on the west slope, that air is
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: still cool. It's gonna stay cool up to an hour
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: longer whatever. And on the aspect of the sun. So
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: you have hot air and coat air right beside each other,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: and that starts turning. That's on a much larger scale.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: When you see that big front coming through that spawns tornadoes,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: that's the same thing. You've got hot air on one side,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: cooler on the other. On a micro scale, that happens
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: in the timber and that churning their again allows dear
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: to detect predators most of the way around them very efficiently.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: So I believe that's why it's not light. You know
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: a lot of hunters think it's light. We've all spooked
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: here during the dead and night or you know it's
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: dark going our And I've yet to hear one run
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: into a tree. I mean, I've just never, oh man,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: broke my right hand or off hitting that tree. I've never.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: You know, it just doesn't happen. And we know why.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Of course, you have a covering on the back of
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: the eyes called take the lucidium. Light goes in and
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: triggers Rod and Cones hits that almost like aluminum foil,
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: bounces back out and they get another use of that light.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Not one hundred percent, but a high percent. So the
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: big pupils and they're getting like coming and going to
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: trigger Roger and Cones. They can see in that extremely
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: low light, no problem. So yeah, thermals I've I've learned
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: and wind direction thermals since is number one for me,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: and that first fifteen minutes, last fifteen minutes, those are
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: the money times to be out there. And I'll take
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: this one step further. I have a friend, it's not
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: a scientist, he's probably the best hunter I know. I
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: won't mention any names, I will share it. Their multiple
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: multiple world record typicals on his wall. Literally, look me
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: right here, folks.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Man's a predator and he hunts as what I've learned
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: to call like a bobcat hunts. He wants to arrive
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: no more than three to four minutes at the spot
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: that he thinks he's going to see this year. He's
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: not sitting there for five hours, three hours, two hours.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: He didn't want his scent to build up at all.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: I call that hunting like a bobcat. If you've ever hunted,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: you ever watched bobcats or looked at their GPS collar studies.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: They move differently when they get in their hunting zone.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: They slow down, then they're barely moving. They know when
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: they're close to gain. And that's what my friend does.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: He will take hours getting to the location to spend
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: three minutes there, last three minutes, first three minutes whatever.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: He's just super super eccentric about not alerting any deer,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: those fonds or bucks. He doesn't want to alert any deer.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: And hunting on his farms is like no other place
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: you're going to hunt.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: What other ways does that manifest when it comes to
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: how he sets up his farm or how he you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: accesses or exits these places. Other than the timing you
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: just mentioned, is there anything else you could point out?
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he's all about that access. So he's
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: going to have mode really short trails to go to,
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: you know, the food plots or betting airs or whatever.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: So he's not leaving a lot of sin if you
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: think about it, if you're walking on a spongy layer
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: of dead grass or leaves, that's just a scent sponge.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: You want to get in clean. And as I've said
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: several times, there's a lot of people want I don't
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: think care about. You want to get out clean. So
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: when you hunt tomorrow or the next week, those deer
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: are alerted. My great friend, doctor Carl Miller, just somewhere
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: years ago, and I'm not going to quote all Carl's work,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: I don't remember all the detailed did some work to
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: kind of learn about deer memory and how long they
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: could remember certain events or maybe certain colors associated with
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: treats and the captive deer pen And yeah, deer have memory.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: But I had a local friend here, a hunter that
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: the wind is right, everything's right, good buck for deer.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: It comes in under white oak tree, he shoots shoots
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: sort of back misses the deer. Next day, the deer
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: comes back. Well, remember, deer don't know death. They've never
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: been to grandpa's funeral. They don't know death literally. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: the most important thing I want to if I could
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: share with anyone, is start thinking like a deer. Put
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: yourself in their world. Stop thinking like a human. Deer
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: do not know death. They don't know gunshots. It's what
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: they learned to associate with danger. Both my daughters shot
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: high school trap at a very high level. One of
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: them was national champion. That's not boasting because I'm like
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: a three box dove hunter. Shooting a shotgut is not genetic,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: I could promise you. But and at nationals, which is
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: always in Sparta, Illinois, it's a big old strip pick
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: coal mine that's been reclaimed. There's nady grass and forbes everywhere.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: Every afternoon there'll be deer feeding. If you shoot trap,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: you know the biggest shot, you can shoot the seven.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: Most people shoot eighth or nine, so only travels so
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: far and hits the dirt. And deer have learned that
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: pattern and they're be feeding about five yards password to
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: average shot can go at that trap range and It
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: buggers up kids on the line because you're shooting towards deer.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: You're shooting towards deer. At the Nationals High School Nationals
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: there will be over one million shotgun shells fired in
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: four days, over one million, and deer feeding out there
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: right down line or the shooting range because they know
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: there's no danger. You see deer on golf courses all time.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: You see them below, you know, right beside the inner
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: state or whatever. Deer learn what's a threat to them
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: and what's not on any given area, and that may change.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Like we've done some work on Dodal Department offense properties
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: from a conservation point of view, and we're seeing one
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty of America's best shooting aw to make
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: weapons downrange. Of course, they will never see the deer.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they'd get in great trouble for doing that.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: And there's a real lesson here, folks. And on the
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: predominant down wind side, on the predominant down wind side,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: there will be deer feeding while they're shooting. You know,
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: automake weapons downrange. Why predominant down wind side because a
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: big part of gunpowder is nitrogen, and where the wind blows.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: That residue is going to be highly fertilized. So think
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: like a deer. And when we keep some records here
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: in about twenty five percent of the mature bucks we harvest,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: I had it happened last year. Happens almost every year
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: for one of our hunters here. Well, will happened when
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: we've harvested a dough with a firearm. So hope you
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: made a double shoulder shot and it drops right there,
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: and the bucks are coming in to smell that dough,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: try to hook up, the horns, get to stand up.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: They don't know death, they have no idea about death,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: and for the first few hours that dough just smells normal.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: It's the best big bucket tracks that you can have
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: when you're gun hunting. The first thing I want to
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: do you talk about when I jump boy. If you
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: harvest a dough, you get down, you leave your scent
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: all over, you drag it out a way. Now, I
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: want to shoot a dough through both shoulders, want to
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: meet a course and drop it right there in my
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: shooting light. And if I do that, I'm going to
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: hunt a long time there, because I know a buck's
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: coming to that dough. Last year, we filmed five different
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: bucks coming to that dough before the bucks showed up
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: that I wanted.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Wow, So I want to ask a follow related to
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you know, what you described happening there in the shooting
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: range or on golf courses. You know, this is something
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I've seen too, like in suburban areas where deer become
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: very accustomed to humans are being around and so they
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: become you know, conditioned. Right, Have you in any ways
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: used that to your advantage as a hunter, in how
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you operate on your property in ways you access and
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: in ways you set up a place or hunt in
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: other places, knowing that there's certain things that deer seem
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to get used to and feel it safe, and other
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: things that they recognize as danger, and then using that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Yes and no. So I'm in a CWD zone. No bait,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: no feed, anything like that, which is great. But we
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: work on our property every day. There's youtvs, there's people
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: checking cameras, doing habitat work. We do habitat work right
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: during deer season. We were running a bunch of chainsaws
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: the other day. So deer used to us being on here.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: They're not used to people being twenty feet up a tree.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: So we can get around our property. We don't even
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: think about it. We don't think about it. It's no
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: concern to me to write a UTV on the property
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: because they hear them so frequently. It's that last little
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: bit getting into the tree stand or the blind. When
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: I'm going to a blind, and I'm not lazy. I
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: walk all the time, but I like to drive absolutely
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: as clothes. I would rather the deer see my UTV
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: then smell me walking a quarter mile. You know, parking
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: to bottom of the blind has nothing to do about
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: being lazy or anything like that. It's just extremely efficient
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: from a hundred point of view. If I'm in a blind,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe gun hunting deer sees a UTV at
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: one hundred yards away, it's a non issue. So we've
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: all heard the story about the old farmer that goes
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: into pasture and sees the giant buck every day and
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: can't understand why the hunter can't see a deer because
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: he sees it every day and he's feeding his cows. Well,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: the buck's tole the condition that farmers pickup. And you know,
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: we come out there from the city and our e
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: bike or UTV or whatever, our walk and place as
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: a farmer never walks, so of course the buck goes. Man,
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: this is weird. Man, I don't know what they're thinking.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: They're thinking something like this is weird. I need to
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: be cautious here. So hunting camps all across America, they said,
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: idle all year long and then the day for opening season. Man,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: it's a flurry of activity. That's the worst thing you
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: can do.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: How long do you think it takes for that conditioning
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: to occur? You know, if I went out to my
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: deer hunting property and start driving my UTV or bike
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: around for a couple of weeks before the season, or
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: does it have to be a couple of months before
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: the season.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Does it need to be the entire year?
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: How long do you think it will take for a
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: deer to become used to a certain activity.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Back into this with what we call the ice cream truck.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: I think it started in Texas. People use it all
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: over now. I think maybe we come up term ice
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: cream truck. So, you know in Texas, a drive around
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: a paddock or a pasture and dunk corn out. Then
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: they redrive it deer on the road everywhere. Ye I
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: call that the ice cream truck. Right. The deer is
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: so conditioned to hearing that old ram truck, they associate
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: it with food and they just step right out there.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: When people first start that ice cream truck, let's call it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Seems to me it takes about a month. That's just
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: a round number private prop owners. You know, they got
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: a UTV. They sing a bag of corn or the
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: left arms do it the right and they just trickle
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: a little bit. They're not painting the road yellow. They're
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: just trickling a little bit. After about a month, the deer, turkey, quail,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: whatever will literally be standing in the road waiting for
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: that buggy to get there. Now, you can't violate their trush.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: You can't be shooting a fifty cow off the buggy
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: or something like that. But yeah, we see people all
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: across America using the ice cream truck. It's called various saying.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: It's been on the geography you live in in South
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Texas called feeding us and darrows. Again, we don't do that.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: That's not my thing, not how I like to hunt.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: But I see a lot of people doing it, and
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: I all say about the same number. Yeah, you do it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: For about months, they'll be standing in the road waiting
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: on you. The other side of that coin is you
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: bust a deer man. You go to draw, you get
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: busted by dough off the side whatever. They all blow
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: and tail up and snort and out of Dallas. How
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: long does it take for that to calm down? I
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: think about seven days is what some good researchers have said.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: That's not my number, that's what other researchers have said.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Some really great data again for my friend doctor Duffinball.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: He heads to Penn State Big Deer Project where for
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: many many years now they've had a bunch of deer GPS.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Call great thing about Dwayne. I went to University of
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: Georgia when Dwayne was there. He finished a year or
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: two before I did. Great researcher. Dwayne is more of
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: a burden duck guy. He's not a deer guy, so
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: he's not really biased by deer work. And so he's
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: a great deer scientist because he didn't have a lot
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: of preconceived notions or he's not trying to prove so
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: and so's theory. He's just doing good signs. I really
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: appreciate Dwayne's work, and Dwayne has got some great data
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: where for Pennsylvania opening the weekend and gun season is
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: World War three, a lot of activity in the timber
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: and Dwayne's all Dwayne's works on public land. Penn State
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: has a huge number of hunters. The last data I
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: saw the average to hunter for seventeen acres. That includes
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: all the acres in state, so Philly and you know
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: all those places. That's just a huge hunter data. That
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: may have changed now, but anyway, and right after opening day,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: if you look at that morning movement, it's a real tall,
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: skinny spike. They barely moved. They shut it down. They're
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: just you know, they're scared to move, stay in the
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: bed all day long. Itty bitty movement right at dark.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: By Thursday, that movement ban because you know, the most
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: people hunt the weekend. By Thursday, that movement band gets broader,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: and Penn State has a great graph on that. By Thursday,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: the deer obviously not as many hunters into which during
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: the week we're going back to work whatever. By thursdays,
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: those deer spending more time on your feet, a little
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: bit more time on the week. So in that case,
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: three four days they start letting up a little bit.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: So Grant, is there any situation in which you think
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: that we overvalue or over index on how much of
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: an impact we can make on deer, because a lot
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: of what you've talked about here is how much we
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: do impact deer behavior, how much they will react to
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: our pressure. How important is to make sure not being detected.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Is there any place or is there any time in
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: your history when you could point to the conventional wisdom
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: or your approach as actually being overboard on that front,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: and actually you should have you should have recognized that
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: they're more we're giving in this way, or that you
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: could have gotten away with more in this other way.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Is there anything like that that comes to mind?
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Oh, one thing is remember, hunting pressure is not
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: how many days you hunt a location, how many times
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: you alerted deer there, so you've got that great setup
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: and the wind man it just stays out of north
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: for twenty days in a row. Whatever you're coming in
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: from the south, whatever it is, you don't alert deer
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: you hunt there every day a season doesn't matter. It's
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: not how many days you hunt a location, it's how
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: many times you alert deer. And then there are a
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: lot of people that jump and dump. I think that's
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: a hunting published statement or you know they use busting deer,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: man drives all that stuff. That's not my style of hunting,
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: and there was really popular here in the Thozarts. We're
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: mountain hilly, not fields. There's no way to really pinch
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: deer in you try to a man drive to run everywhere.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: But there's certainly a bunch of hunters around America that
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: push deer to standards or through a gap or something,
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: and the other people harvest deer. And that whole hunting
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: technique is dependent upon a controlled disturbance. And again that's
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: not how the majority hunters hunt, not how I hunt,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: so I really can't speak to it. My strategy rather
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: is to slide in undisturbed and let the deer come
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: to me. I'm not trying to push the deer somewhere.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: I want the deer to come to me. And in
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: that case, the more natural the deer on their own
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: behavior not all alert. And we noticed from everything like
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: we've done some I think pretty cool work where we
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: set up a quickly a computer with the microphone and
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: a magnet that dropped the water balloon and a balloon
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: full of water so it dropped it. The speed of
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: gravity and tested. How you know a two or three
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: hundred to four under foot bow could we get there
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: in time if the deer reacted. We use the a
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: lip sprinter as a deer's reaction time. I think deer
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: probably faster and Olympic sprinter and in those situations, deer
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: going to react faster than any bow on the market
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: can respond. At forty yards for sure, And at twenty
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: yards you're shooting a crossboard something, you probably get them.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: And that goes into telling me how sensitive deer are.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: We've got to remember, deer make a living. They stay
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: alive by being able to avoid danger because everything out
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: there wants a deer sandwich. Kyotes, bears, bobcats, was everything
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: wants a deer sandwich. And so when they have the
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: capacity to learn something is dangerous, they avoid it. They
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: have not had the capacity yet in most places to
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: learn vehicles are dangerous. However, Tasea and I sold part
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: of our land. We're living in a little rental house
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: town now, which is killing me. While our house on
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: the property ear is being built. And I've never seen
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: a roadkilled deer in that little development. I see deer
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: every day, you know, twenty thirty deer come and go
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: under you know, urban fleas all over the place, and
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: you see those deer their herey car coming, they just
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: stop alone most highways, that doesn't happen obviously. Deer in
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: that area where they see cars all day long, every day,
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: they have learned to avoid cars, and they teach their
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: fonds to learn to avoid cars. And you see it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: I assuming that we know what a deer say. You
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: see them coming through a yard or a little undeveloped
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: lot and you're coming and they just stop and look
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: at you, and you go buy everyone else in America
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: most places they run out and every now and then
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: you whack one. So deer can learn with repetitive, non
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: lethal disturbances want to avoid. They don't learn to avoid
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: gunshots because most of them that get shot at die
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: right and they there's no way of communicating. Boy, next
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: time you hear a thunder, real loud, you need to
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: get out of Dallas because you know you don't pass
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: that on.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Is there is there ever a situation?
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I guess one kind of final question on this overarching
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: topic of not alerting deer. I think that's kind of
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: the theme of much of what we talked about. Is
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: there ever a situation or a location that warrants you
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: take a different approach where you're willing to hunt in
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a place that you know you will alert deer on
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: your way out or at some point or you know, Man,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: there's a high chance this could blow up for me,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: but there's also a high chance it will work.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Will you ever take that risk?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Will you ever say, Okay, it's worth it this one time,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: even though I know I'm breaking my usual rules.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, of course. I think that goes with the stewardship
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: you have of that location or that property. So you're
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: a guest, You and I are hunting together on public
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: land and it's the last day of hunt, hunt, and man,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: we just we just can't quite get to deer. Say, man,
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: we're going into the you know, swamp vetting area or whatever,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: because if we blow it, it doesn't impact our hunting
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: that year, and we have no stewardship over what the
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: next hunter is going to experience on our private land.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: We're going to get to hunt another day, and we
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: don't want to disturb that vetting area or that scrape
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: or whatever it is. So I think it depends upon
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: your scenario. Again, public land, private land, last day to hunt,
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: first day to hunt. A lot of those factors. During
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: the rut, when deer not on a pattern, I will
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: certainly go in areas I normally don't go in. I'm
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: not a big fan of the rut. Well, I'm a
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: fan of the rut when I'm a travel hunter and
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: I just need deer walking. The most steps of day
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: are gonna walk. That's when I like the rut. At home,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: the deer aren't on a pattern, and I love, I
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: love trying to figure out whatever level of pattern there is.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: I want to think that my main work of creating
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: feed here and betting neary's ears paying off, But that
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: doesn't pay off there in the rut. It's wherever those
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: receptive dos are. So yes, it's as most things biologists are.
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: We get a lot of a lot of uh you know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: duff though that it's because of this. There's a lot
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: of what ifs in the world in biology, dear biology
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: or other biology, and everyone wants that solid ten point answer.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: But it's always what I like to say, the context
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: of the situation, and I tend to speak of the
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: context of you've got some stewardship and the property. It's
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: your land, your grandfather's land. You're going to get to
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: hunt there again next week, next month, next year. So
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: you take stuff a little differently. If you're chasing five
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: state circle of public land, you find, dear, you're going
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: to the sign, You're going to whatever, because you have
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: a limited time to make this work.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: And to me again, I think it just circles back
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: to the context of the hunting situation.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So speaking of context and what ifs and butts,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and it depends.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Patterning.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You've mentioned several times the ability to pattern, or to
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: whatever degree you can pattern. You said something like that,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: how is your understanding of patterning deer change over the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: course of your hunting journey? Where does it stand now
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: as far as what you believe you can actually pattern
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: and how valuable that may or may not be, into
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: what degree you can actually execute on that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I mentioned earlier. I'm an old man.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: I'm sixty four, so I grew up reading Roger Rothhauer
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: and Miles Keller and those guys. There weren't videos really
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: to watch at that time. M hmm. And those guys
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: were an agur is. Mister Rothawer was in Ohio and
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: Miles Course was up in Minnesota, Wisconsin area, and there
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: were big, big ag areas with small blocks of timber
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: and it was and I'm down here in the Ozark
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: Mountains in Markan National Forest public land, thinking I'm going
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: to use those techniques to pattern deer here, and spend
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of years frustrated. And then I went to
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: school in the South University of Georgia and Plimpson trying
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: to pattern deer on big old blocks of timberland and
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: it just does not work that way. And finally the
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: GPS collars come out, and people have you know, great
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: scientists have said, we're not seeing a pattern. We see
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: general use areas in general use areas, and you find
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: where two or three general use areas this is very
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: general overlap and deer spend more time there. But that's
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: not within thirty yards of any tree they're cutting through there.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: So that's where management comes in. You make that thirty
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: yards better, You make the betting area here, You make
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: the best betting in a mile square area here, and
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: you assume if you don't disturb it, deer going to
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: use it. Or you make the preferred food source or
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: one of my favorite tricks is we have some food
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: plots that we may not hunt all year long, or
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: we don't hunt till the late season, so we get
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: the late season, we haven't punched our tags, and now
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: we have a place that deer can feed not experiencing
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: it disturbance that year. Man, those are dynamite and it
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: takes some you know, it depends on how much land
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: you have access to and some discipline. Who my troil
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: camera's blowing up a deer there, but I said I
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: wouldn't hunt that till this season late season. So again,
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: what you're willing to put into it. But those people
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: that punch tags repeatedly on mature deer, if you will
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: have some kind of strategy like that. And for the
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: bulk of American hunts, the acorn driven deer heer, that's
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: the bulk of licensees. All bets are off when the
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: acorns hit the ground right right, that's a whole different game.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: And the techniques you see because people to make you
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: know what I call the big stud hunting shows. I'm
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: an educator. I'm friends with all these people, and I've
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: had a really easy career because I'm not really competing
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: with them. We're of an educator and they make you
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: live in killing great big deer. But those people are
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: not chasing acorns. They're they're inaugurate is where it is
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: easier to pattern, and there's a lot of sun hitting
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: the ground. Deer get bigger, the hokey, the big Antler's
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: this photosynthesis. No one ever talks about that age. First grocery,
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: second groceries means photosynthesis with the zero to five feet
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: of the ground, That's what it means.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Is there any way to pattern if you are solely
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: hunting an acorn driven deer?
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Heerd?
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: You know last week I didn't get tone much. Missouri's
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: post season open September fifteenth, and we've been in a
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: wicked drought. August was the driest August on record. I
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: think we got records here in this part of Missouri
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: about eighty some odd years in this county dryest on
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: the record. Sad, horrible, sad. And there was one pond
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: on a ridge that held water and man choke cammers
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: glipping off, but the wind was just not in the
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: right direction. I was going to alert deer and every
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: day it's a trade off. On my guys, I never
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: see a pattern like that here, but I probably won't
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: see it if I go there because I'm gonna get busted.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: And then today it rained two inches. There's water in
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: every little hole, rock whatever around the oozren's right now,
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: So that pattern's over now. And I did not, personally,
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: my witness is I did not quote unquote take advantage
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: that pattern because the wind was never right for how
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I need to access that pond, and I only really,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: you know, I just can't get to the other side
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: of it without going all the way around and biggering
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: up a lot of other deers. So patterns become This
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: is true anywhere we talked about limited cover and ad country.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: Patterns are where there's a limited resource. That's what a
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: pattern is. Where there's a limited resource. If it's homogeneous
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: ten acres, food ten acres cover, ten acres, food ten
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: acres cover, ten acres, food ten acres cover, there's no pattern.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: It's a checkerboard. Well, that's what you get in solid
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: oak forest when the acorns are dropping right, food cover,
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: food cover, food cover everywhere. So a pattern is developed
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: by a limited resource. In West Texas, that's water, man.
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: You got a cow tank with a windmill pumping water
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: in it. There's gonna be deer coming there almost every
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: single day. Listen, Mountain Lion just really starts something at
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: stock tank. So I think the takeaway there, And again
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: this is not the specific answer most hosts want, but
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: a patterns where there's a limited resource in that country
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: that tends to be covered because there's food everywhere except
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: after the crops are harvested. In acorn country, the pattern
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: is where I have great patterns is before the acorn drop,
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: little heidio food plots, and we kill a pile of deer.
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: Doing this, we make a little quarter acor food plot,
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: and seventy five yards away we make a baiting area.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: We kill a ton of deer in those. This year
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: we did not We're not going to because we can't
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: get the rain. Our crops have noted yet. We did
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: not have green fields or food plots. And then all
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: this rain I'm sure knocks and make corns down. And
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: again in context this year, that pattern building technique we've
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: used of having food right next to cover designed in
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: a way where the predominant wins are in our favor,
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: and we've tagged so many bucks doing that for years.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: That did not hold true this year.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: On patterning.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Another follow up, I think the tool that most hunters
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: now rely on to try to pattern deer is trail
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: cameras sell cameras, especially today. You've been using them as
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: long as anyone I know, you were doing studies with them.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Very very early.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: What do you wish that you knew about cameras in
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness about them? What do
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: you wish you knew twenty years ago when you started
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: maybe getting when everyone got really serious with them, twenty
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: years ago, fifteen years ago? If you could tell yourself
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: back then what you know now? What would that most
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: important thing be?
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Look a year in advance. So I'm a huge troil
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: camera fan. But what trail cameras tell us? Even the
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: cell cam you're sitting there on your app, Oh my gosh.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: You know some states worry that that's gonna help hunters
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: too much. I don't know, but the vast majority hunters
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: is certainly including me, are not going to see a
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: picture go off and be able to walk out in
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: that area without learning the deer. That's just not going
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: to happen. And tomorrow's a new day. Coyotes, other hunters,
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: weather changes, food, source changes. So again in Agura is
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: where that food is a constant until the combine rolls through,
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: that's probably more effective. Where I live, we don't see pattern.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: We don't see the same buck on a troil camera
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: three days in a row. That just almost never happens here.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: So but you will see it next year. And so
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: I marked on my calendar. Everyone's got a calendar on
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: their phone or computer. And we have a day of
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: great activity, whether I see it when I'm hunting or
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: my Troe cameras going off like popcorn all day. Ion't
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: make a note. September twenty fourth had tremendous morning activity,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: and I'll be watching for that the next year. That
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: may encourage me to hunt that day the next year.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: Even on the moon phases different and all that stuff's different,
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: the weather's different, and we've used that to our advantage.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: And actually November fourth for several years in a row.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Now I've killed a good buck, which is bo season
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: here in Missouri on November third, November fourth, and that
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: is about the peak of our pre rut. Okay, so
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: let's define pre rut up until about twenty five percent
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: of the dozer receptive there's tremendous competition for those few
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: dozes that are receptive, and the bucks are moving a lot.
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: They're literally taking a lot of steps per day. It
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: does not mean they're covering a bigger area, but they're
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: actually under feet more per day trying to find out
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: limited resource again, a limited resource, a receptive dough. Once
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: we get past that twenty five, twenty six, thirty forty
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: fifty receptive, Uh, there's so many dos receptive. The bucks
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: don't need to be searching. They're they're they're with they're
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: tending a dough. Mature bucks are tending a dough, and
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: then you're just sitting there hoping. Man, I sure hope
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: I'm a place where receptive dough goes by, because that's
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: what I'm going to see. A mature buck where I
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: hope I'm somewhere that a dough will a buck will
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: ten a dough twenty four to thirty six hours, and
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: I hope I'm where he's going to go looking for
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: the next dough after he finishes ten.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: And that.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: So November fourth where I am, and probably a lot
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: of places. November third, number fourth, you hear a lot
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: of people talk about Halloween and general who a lot
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: of deer killing Halloween. There's been so much talk about Halloween.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: I think there's more people hunting on Halloween. Are we
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: measuring hunter effort for the effectiveness of that date? And
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: I was just in South Carolina assistant landowner. Actually where
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: the process or the process is meat, that is the processors.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Why in bordered de land I was working on. So
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: we went out that gate, stopped in, say hi, you know,
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: shake some mans, meet people, and that processor for twenty
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: plus years in the upstate of South Carolina have like
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: a big desk calendar and every day they would write down,
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: you know, we processed nine here in the morning, fourteen
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: in the afternoon. And they had that for many years.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: And the guy said, oh man, look at all this data.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: And I said, this is a great source of data
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: for hunter effort. It means nothing on the wind deer moving.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: And you could see that clearly because every Saturday morning
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: be a bunch of deer out there. They're cleaning deer.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: Every Saturday morning, Opening day they clean up pile of deer.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: Weekdays they didn't clean many deer.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: So speaking of the rut, yeah, I want to continue
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit more. There is there anything that you
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: have gotten wrong over the years on that front. Is
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: there anything now that you understand differently about how deer
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: react and act during the rut, or anything about how
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: you've hunted during the rut that now you wish you
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: had done differently, or that now you understand differently.
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a couple things drought off the bat. Me always
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: thought the rut what everyone wants to hunt the rut?
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: Man schedule a vacation on the rut, whatever on the rut. Again,
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: I'd rather hunt the pre rut than the rut unless
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: I'm travel hunting and I just need a lot of
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: luck on my side. The second thing is I used
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: to set up, you know, on a field or food
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: plot or whatever thing. Boy, I just want to be
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: worders of most dotes, and research strongly indicates, I won't
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: say shown, but strongly indicates that when that dough becomes receptive,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: she tends to drop her fawnds or not keep her
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: fawnds with her, and go to a different portion of
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: her home range, which makes perfect sense, right. She didn't
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: want to drag in that old ruddy up buck by
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: her fawns. They could get injured, so instead of sitting
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: there where you see twenty dos pouring into a field
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: every afternoon, thinking what that's going to be great buck bait.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: The only buck bait that time year is a receptive dough.
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: What I've learned to do in the hiels, it's easier.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: I want to sit on this hill and shoot into
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: this hill where there's brushy covered, really good, high quality
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: betting area. And what I've learned from my observations and
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: what i think the GPS callers are showing, is those
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: dos once they start getting receptive, if they bump off
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: that maternal group they've been hanging with and go getting
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: real thick covered, that just keeps all this. It's brutal
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: being a buck. A lot of bucks get injured during
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: the rut, four or five bucks trying to tend her,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: they get gored. They want to get to where they
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: can get some cover, some timber, some brush between them
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: and the bucks that are not being dammaged so much so,
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: I've harvested several deer with our Missouri's rudd is during
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: firearm season. You know, I sit on this ridge, it's
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: only two or thirundred yards. Our ridges aren't like the
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: rocky mountains. Shoot into this ridge where I can see.
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: If you're on that ridge, you can't see through the brush,
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: but if you're on this ridge, you can see into
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: the brush. And that is an extremely effective technique for
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: the rut. I'm not hunting a deer, I'm hunting an
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: area where receptive does want to go escape. And that's
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: my number one technique now for hunting during the rut
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: with the gun or bow, I one hunt where receptive
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: dos are going, not where the bulk of the dozes are.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: And you know, there's so many different there's so many
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: different kind of side trails we could take here. There's
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: so many different fascinations and fads and favorite you know,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: pet theories when it comes to deer and how to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: kill more of them. And there's been I've done nine
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: hundred and so many podcasts about this, most of them
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: all focused on how do I kill more deer, or
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: how do I kill a bigger deer, or how do
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: I kill the biggest deer or the oldest deer. But
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: you and I were talking the other day and you
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: brought up the fact that maybe there's a discussion to
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: be had here and maybe you've learned some things over
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: the years about not just how to kill you know,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: the biggest deer, the most deer, but maybe about other
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: aspects of this whole hunting thing. So when it comes
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: to setting goals or setting expectations for your hunts, grant,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: what what do you wish you knew on that front?
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: What would you tell your twenty five year old self
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: Well? Uh so my journey backwards goes through two transplants.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: I had my first kidney transplant thirty three years ago
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: and my second seven years ago. Super blessed. I'm still healthy,
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: super super blessed. But through those journeys, and I think
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: a lot of hunters, we all start, and this is
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: well published, we just want to see a deer. Stage two,
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: we want to harvest a deer. Stage three, we don't
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: want to harvest a lot of deer. Stage four, we
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: want to harvest a big deer. If you mature enough
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: to get to stage five, you want to enjoy the
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: whole experience of deer hunting. I wish I could have
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: got to stage five. I'm not sure I'm there yet,
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: but I wish I could have got to stage five.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: A whole lot quicker. Big antlers are awesome, right, And
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: I reflect on this sure maybe different than a lot
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: of people do. I worked out in Nevada for the
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: BLM drive land management wise in college. I've seen out
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: there found a lot of highro griphics, so I'm sure
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: someone had seen them before, but they're not on any
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: mapped There weren't any like billim signs. Hey go look
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: at the K paintings over here. They were you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: if you're not familiar, state of Nevada is eighty seven
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: percent government land, eighty seven percent public land, thirteen percent private.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of acres that people don't walk very
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: often in Nevada. And I've yet to see a hieroglyphic
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: or a you know, a cliff painting, a cliff etching,
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: a K painting of a deer that did not have
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: big antlers. I've never seen one of a spike. That
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: big answer point. I think prehistoric man before history was
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: recorded during the big antlers too. I think that's very natural.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: We all want the best, right, I mean, go getters, doers, hunters,
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: getting out of bed, going out there in the code.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: We're thinking big, we're thinking the best. I wonder if
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: we've lost our pattern a little bit, because those prehistoric
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: hunters were definitely thinking about meat and tools and hide
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: and surviving, and I think we've lost our way. There's
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: a good zillion things that X y Z S door
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: that will help you quote unquote tag a big buck right.
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: And there's a few things about meat prep and saving
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: the meat and what makes it taste better. And then
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: to take that further, just again a blessing. I was
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: able to be introduced to doctor Stefan van Bleet. He's
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: one of the world's leading human nutritions from a point
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: of view of what we put in our body, what
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: does that do to our nutrition? And I won't dive
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: into this in great detail. We have an episode on
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: it if you want to alays check it out. But uh,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: doctor van Bleed had figured out that wildcott salmon some
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: of the healthiest meat we put in our body. We
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: can live on wildcott salmon. There's there's you know, tribes
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: and nadies that own almost only eat wildcott salmon and
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: are very healthy, have no cavities. No body fad all
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: that kind stuff. And he was in Ha Whi giving
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: a you know, a presentation of a scientific conference, and someone said,
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: have you ever test asks us deer there. Of course
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: they were brought in by you know, European settlers or
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: no mammals on Hawaii except the species of bat. That's
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: like God made Awaii and New Zealand someone's Polynesian islands
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: of bird paradis. All those elk and mammals down there,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: rodents or whatever, they were all brought in. They were
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: not there, And so Hawaii of course extremely diverse plant community.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: And someone gave them some wine and liver of an
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: access deer and it takes it back to the lab.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: But lo and behold, oh my guy, it's just like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: better than the best pat you know, virginity vag raised beef.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: It's super super high quality. And I'm thinking about that.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: And scientists know that we have this chart views and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: feeding strategies like a buffalo or an ox or down
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: at the bottom right and big old square rectangle mouth.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Just give me grass, I'll turn it into protein. Just
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: give me grass. That's all I want. Well up at
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: the very opposite corner to chart is a white tailed
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: deer and they're considered to be the most concentrate selector.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: If you think about the amount of a moose or
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: an elk, and you see that they got a pretty
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: square muzzle. White tail, little long, skinny muzzle, really really
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: low tongue. They're very selective in what they feed. They
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: will literally starve to death. And this research has been
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: done in Texas where access deer and other species of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: exotic thrive. Whitetails really starved to death. Were the deer
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: in same size captivity I think it was thirty six
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: acres I remember right, not only stayed alive, but reproduced
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: and thrived on plants that white tails starved on. So
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: I said, if they're that picky about what they eat,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: is their meat better? And it turned out it was.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: Bottom line is we sent samples from seventeen deer loing
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: that'd hurt to give up loin loing and liver samples
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: to doctor van Biet's lab. And they don't just look
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: at protein and fat. They're looking at omega three versus
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: omega six acci omegas, and they're looking at flavonoids and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: phido nutrients, which are nutrients that the sun's interaction with
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: plants developed that's not developed any other way. But a
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: deer can eat that plant and actually preserve those fatal nutrients.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: So if you have really good habitat turned out that
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: venison some of the best meat he's ever tested period.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: Now you think about us a role as a hunter.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: We can provide some of the best meat known on
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: the planet by providing high quality white tail venison to
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: our family. And I think there's a real, you know,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: badge of honor that hunters can wear by being that provider. First,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: we want to be a good conservation so we want
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: to perpetuate the species and the resource. But I think
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: the second badge even more than antlers. And I mean
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: I like antlers. I got antlers around here. I think
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: the second badge is being a provider and providing that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: super high quality meat maybe certainly better than you're going
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: to buy at the grocery store to come out of
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: a feedlock unequivocally better and are better than most better.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: And those cows are walking around and poop, you know,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: knee deep all day long. Who wants to do that?
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: But yeah, this research with doctor van Bleet, we're not finished.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: We're taking a step further to expenseve research. We're kind
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: of moving through it. But I think being a provider
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: is a badge that we need to place more respect
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: by if you wear that badge of being a provider,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: I think that deserves a huge amount of respect.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Has that has that idea changed how you view or
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: or judge your own success? Has that changed things at all?
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: When you go into a year and you're thinking about
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: what would warrant is you know you grading yourself as
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: having a successful season, this this idea of being a provider,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: of feeling the freezer. Has that become a larger priority
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: now or is there still like, man, I got to
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: kill that one buck where I need to kill a
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: six year old buck or that side of things is
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: that's still a big part for you.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: I really enjoy interacting the bucks, hunting bucks. I enjoy
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: harvesting bucks. I haven't had a buck mounted years. I'd
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: rather take that money and go on the next adventure
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: if you will. And you have to know for me,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: so I've been a manager for Sloan and most deer
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: herds need some dough harvests, not all. You know, a
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: huge eh EHD outbreak right now September in parts of Ohio,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: those deer harvests need to be reduced for that to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: recover for a year two it will bounce back quickly
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: oys does. We've been studying EHD for others people have
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: for many, many decades, so we know EHD will, but
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: they need to back off the dough harvest a little bit.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: EHD hit my place here in Missouri in twenty twelve
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: we lost somewhere around seventy five percent of deer herd
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: and just a short amount of time. We backed off
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: the dough harvest for two years and had phenomenal honeying
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: after that. And that always happens here. Mark Jury and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: others talk about that because what happens is you get
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: the harvest you should have been having, and now there's
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: plenty of groceries for all the deer and the ones
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: that survive it express way more to potential.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: This has happened over and over and over and over,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: no doubt about it. So I've always been harvesting dose.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: We tend to harvest five dose for every buck and
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: been doing that for almost three decades, now decades. But
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: the reason I do that is changing from a manager
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: to a provider. And again there's a transplant patient. Every
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: year I go to the Mayo Clinic Rochester, Minnesota, have
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: very detailed physical about my kidney health and all my health,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: and I'll meet with the nutrition us, the dietitian if
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: you will, and there's hey, Grant, you know you're doing good.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: Let us go away eating and say, well, you know
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: I'm a while if i'll just I eat primarily venison.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: There's very little poultry in our house, no store bocked beef,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: primarily venison, elk every now and then when I'm lucky.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not a very skilled elk hunter. And they said, man, Grant,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: whatever you're doing, keep doing it, because you know, I've
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: been blessed. When you're a thirty three year transplant patient,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: you've been blessed to beat the odds. And I love
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: of us survive thirty three years. And the Mayo puts
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: pretty big stock in my diet on doing that. So
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: venison has been very good to me. Started as a
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: poor gradual student, where venison was just a source of protein.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: You know, we're harvesting deer for various projects. And just
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: kept going through that and I like it. My wife
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: prepares it well and I prepare it well, and so
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: we just kept doing it. And now we know why
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: and we have this data from doctor van Vleet, and
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: it's natural there's no feed on our operators, nor hormones
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: or anything going into the deer. I can't think of
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: a better way to really benefit your family from a
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: provider point of view.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how lucky are we that the thing we love,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: the pursuit, the recreation, the lifestyle that we enjoy so
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: much being out there in nature, studying these animals, observing, following,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: going through all the ups and downs. How lucky are
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: we that that incredible pursuit also leads to incredible nutrition
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: for our families. It's pretty special, no doubt about that.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: You know. And I heard a different person say this,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: So I'm stealing this actually from Gabe Brown, probably maybe
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: the most famous Virginia vag farmer ever, brilliant man. And
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: Gabe was given a semar somewhere and someone asking, well,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: you know, if I this salad that had I don't
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: remember number six eight different vegetables on there, isn't that
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: better than your regenerative ag raised beef? And Gabe says,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: I don't know. We've identified about one hundred and fifty
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: different planted or navy species on our ranch, and our
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: cal have access to that, and those fidal nutrients are
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: getting into the cows. So when I eat a steak,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: I'm eating seventy the benefits of seventy eighty ninety different
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: plants and you're eating six interest. I think there's a
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: huge amount of truth to that. There's research ongoing about that. Actually,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: Gabe Brown and that whole group understanding AG also use
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: doctor Van Biet. I mean, he's literally, you know, one
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: of the world's leading guys on this. So we're all
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: kind of pulling the same way. I'm going to wildlife way,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: they're going to the beef or agricultural way. But I
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: promise you I would rather eat a deer from Gabe's
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: ranch where they don't use herbicide, they don't use synthetic
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: fertilizer fertilizers made out patroleum products, folks, than I would
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: in heavy rope drop iwould that the sprayers passed over
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: the field every twenty days or something like that. Yeah,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: And so wherever you are, you're you're hunting Granny's back
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: forty or wherever you are, you're on public land and
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: they've done a clear cut or they've done whatever, and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: there's some young vegetation out there that's going to be
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: really high quality meat for you. And your family.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: Grant.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: We've spent about an hour now looking back at your
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: life and your experiences and your lessons learned, and what
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: you would have told yourself way back then. But now
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: you know all of this, You've lived this life, you've
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: had these experiences, You've taught so many of us so much.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: I'm curious what you would tell somebody who has that
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: much runway ahead of them. So I've got a seven
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: year old son who has been going out in the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: woods with me since he you know, since he gets
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: right on my chest, was on his first hunt when
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: he was three, has been going with me every year since.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: He's expressed a lot of interest in you know, continuing it,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: you know, wanting to do it himself, and he's really
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: into it. So if you were to sit down with
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: my seven year old son, what would be the single
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: most important thing you would want to leave with him?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: M First off, your son's one life's lottery, right, There's
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: so many lessons through hunting, life, death, preparation, stewardship. Your
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: son is blessed to have a dad pours into him.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: And I congratulate you, Mark for doing that. You're leading
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: by jail. I think my number one thing would not
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: be some hunting tip or based on GPS, it would be.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: And I wish I hadn't have been you know, I'm
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: type A. I want to get it done. I'm a doer.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: I still have callouses to slow down and enjoy it.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: To take it in. That sounds really wish you was she,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: But I'm being so sincere. I wish you know, I
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: was pushing through school and grad school and started a
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: business as a wildlife consultant when that was unheard of.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: We've been incorporated thirty five years. This year, Mark's our
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: thirty fifth year. That was not hurd up thirty five
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: years ago. Actually got made fun of a lot. And
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: that's the old biblical prophecy, right he who laughs first
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: seldom laughs last. I wouldn't trade my career for anything. Yeah,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: I would slow down and enjoy it. And I wish
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: I hadn't been so stressed about that next buck or
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: is my buck bigger than mars buck? Or you know,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: I wish I would have focused more on the pure
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: enjoyment of this tremendous gift we have. No other country
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: has this gift. There's while I followed a plan of it,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: no country has free access in the amount of public
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: land and the quantity of game animals that we have,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: and I wish I had focused more on the enjoyment
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: of that. And I took my daughter's hunting mark. I
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: have two daughters to follow on that trend. But my
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: daughters grew up hunting with a camera because we were
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: filming growing dear God to make a new episode every week.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: And I wish I'd have shoved the camera aside more
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: and just say, hey, let's just go, honey, helpe shoot
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: the bigs buck on the property. Let's go, honey. And
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: my girls still come home to hunt. One works for
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: SpaceX now, one works for a major drone company, military
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: drone company, and in all that high tech hustle bus
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: holders there already got plans to be here this gun
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: season in Missourier's still coming home to hunt. They're here
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: this Turkey season.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: We had a great time, and folks, I left the
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: camera home and took my hotest daughter, Raleigh hunting, and
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: it was a blast. And I'm sorry I missed some
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: of those days. No, honey, I don't have it on camera,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: don't take the shot. I'm sorry I missed some of
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: those days.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great advice for me as a father too.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: Hearing that, yes, well great.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this, how
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: much I appreciate it. I want to give you an opportunity, though,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: to tell folks where they can go for more of this,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: because I know you have an incredible archive, an incredible
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: library of lessons learned like this that other folks can
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: watch from you.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: Can you tell folks where they can go? And is there.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: Anything that we should be keeping an eye out for
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: in the coming weeks or months from Growing Deer.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: You can just search on Growing Deer on YouTube or
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: whatever your favorite social platform is, either grant Woods or
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: Growing Deer or get you there. And you know, we
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: film I like other people, we've been doing this. We're
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: going our sixteenth year. Every week, whatever we did last
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: week is going to be on the air next week,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: so you know, we think maybe it's relative. So yeah,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: whatever we're doing, we're doing. We will be releasing round
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: two as more fundings come in of our research on
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: the quality of venison. I'm going to say three or
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: four months from now. And I myself, I mean, I
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: don't know the results yet. I'm super excited about this.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: This is more focused on something called flavonoids, which is
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: was not it. I don't even know if that was
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: a term five years ago. This is not only what
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: gives meat or plants flavor, but those are extremely complex
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: chemical compounds that turns out impacts our health in many ways.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: And I'm so excited to I've been getting to benefit
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: from it as a primary venison diet. But what does
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: that really mean? And one thing I'll share in Mark.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: I know we need to wrap up here, but we
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: found that deer harvest diod earlier in season before they
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: started acorns. We're higher quality, significantly higher quality meat than
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: deer that we're feeding late season on acorns. And the
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: same is to be true for deer dead are eating
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: vegetation versus corn. Oh kernel corn. Deer not built to
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: be corn. It can cause acidosis, certainly not the quantity
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: to eat now, and and corns pretty closer related to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: acorns nutritionally speaking. So those you know, don't wait till well.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: I got to get my buck and I'm going to
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: harvest my dough field that freezer from day one. We
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: tried to start harvesting does day one, and that will
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: be better quality meet and help you meet your management objectives. Awesome.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: That is very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: rest of those results. So please, please, I know you
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: will keep us all posted and continue the great work
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: You've been doing now for so many years.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: And it's been fun to watch the growing deer journey.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: I've been, you know, doing this wired hunting thing right
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: around that same time length and since you start growing deer,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: and you've been a model for me to watch and
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: to learn from. So I appreciate all that, Grant and
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: everything you've done to help me over the years.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Mark.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: Thank you for all the information you've shared and the friendship.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: I remember you came here many many years ago, one
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: of the first DISSL cameras I saw. We did some
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: most stuff in a So thank you for your friendship
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: and staying true to your mission. Mark, I appreciate you.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: Let's uh, let's chat against sotogram.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: Take care mar.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: All right, and.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: That's gonna do it. Thank you for joining me today.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you being a part of this community. I
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: appreciate you listening to me and Grant here rad along
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: for an hour or so, and I hope you've had
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: a wonderful start to your hunting season. If it has begun,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: and if you are just about to begin, I'm pulling
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: You know, my fingers crossed for you.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Good luck out there, have a lot of fun, and
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: stay wired to hunt.