Latest / UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell / UnchainedTV: How AI Can Save India's Elephants

Transcript

UnchainedTV: How AI Can Save India's Elephants · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:01
Welcome.
0:02
We have an extraordinarily exciting show for you
0:05
today, breaking news that is going to save
0:08
the lives of many elephants in India.
0:11
And it's truly extraordinary.
0:14
Artificial intelligence is allowing train conductors to get
0:19
a warning when elephants are on the track.
0:22
It's an AI-based warning device that allows
0:25
the train conductor to slow down so these
0:28
innocent majestic creatures are not hit by trains.
0:32
One of the leading causes of elephant deaths
0:36
in India, and that's just for starters, our
0:39
incredibly determined and wildly successful guest today has
0:47
made it a mission of her life to
0:50
save Asian elephants who are primarily based in
0:53
India.
0:53
Sangeeta Iyer, let's start with this huge breakthrough.
0:59
You're getting these devices in.
1:01
How many have you gotten?
1:02
How much does it cost?
1:04
How can people help?
1:05
And how are they saving elephant lives?
1:09
Right.
1:10
Jane, first of all, it's really, really good
1:12
to be with you and to be able
1:15
to share about the progress that we're making.
1:17
And as you mentioned, clearly every year, hundreds
1:21
of elephants get killed on the India's deadly
1:24
train tracks.
1:25
And so our organisation, Voices for Asian Elephants,
1:28
decided we absolutely had to do something.
1:31
So we partnered with some of the indigenous
1:33
tech experts on the ground in India, in
1:36
West Bengal, and we created this AI-based
1:39
technology called EleSense.
1:41
It is a device that is made of
1:43
like four sensors.
1:45
It actually assesses and determines the temperature, the
1:49
height, the moving pattern, and takes, you know,
1:52
three or four of these very important observations,
1:57
that is the technology that is, and of
2:00
course the height.
2:01
And so it makes sure that the elephants,
2:05
when they are around that area where this
2:08
device has been installed, it sends out this
2:12
sirens, this alarm system.
2:14
And as you have seen in that SMS
2:17
messaging, we sent out that message to everybody
2:21
involved, all stakeholders, like the train pilots, the
2:25
tea plantation people, the forest department, and of
2:29
course our own team.
2:30
And they then, through the walkie-talkie, send
2:33
the message to the train pilots to slow
2:36
down.
2:37
And when these train pilots slow down, it
2:39
allows the train to cross and, I mean,
2:43
allows the elephants to cross over the other
2:45
side safely.
2:47
And thus, it has averted some 925-plus
2:51
train collisions with elephants in India just last
2:55
year alone.
2:56
And this year, so far, between January and
2:59
August, we've averted almost 400-plus train collisions
3:04
with elephants.
3:05
That is absolutely extraordinary.
3:08
I'm also here with my co-host Lindsay
3:11
Baker.
3:12
And what we're so excited about is that
3:15
this is cost-effective.
3:17
Now, you might think to yourself, well, artificial
3:20
intelligence, high-tech, this has got to cost
3:22
millions of dollars.
3:23
There's no way I can help by donating,
3:26
but that's not the case.
3:28
The fact is that these are incredibly cost
3:31
-effective and every single person who donates will
3:35
be able to pitch in to create another
3:38
one of these high-tech EleSense devices that
3:41
can then be deployed in another part of
3:44
India.
3:44
So will you tell us, Sangeeta, how much
3:47
they cost, how many have come in, and
3:49
why people should donate, why this is a
3:52
practical solution, not some pie-in-the-sky
3:54
thing that requires millionaires or billionaires, but that
3:57
every single one of us can contribute to?
4:00
Right.
4:00
So last year, we installed 40 devices across
4:04
certain areas where accidents take place more frequently.
4:08
And so for those 40 devices, we ended
4:11
up raising $80,000.
4:13
So you can actually divide that because we
4:17
have to get, procure the material, the equipment,
4:20
and then of course, we have to pay
4:21
the people who work for us, et cetera,
4:24
et cetera.
4:24
And now what we're doing this year is
4:27
we are actually installing 30 devices in a
4:30
core elephant range called the Chapramari Wildlife Sanctuary.
4:36
And then along with that, we're also installing
4:39
30 additional devices, EleSense devices inside the Buxa
4:44
Tiger Reserve.
4:45
So we are installing now, we are expanding
4:47
it given the success of our installations last
4:51
year.
4:51
And given that we have averted some 940
4:54
plus, 25 plus elephant deaths, 925 plus elephant
4:58
deaths just last year alone.
5:00
Sorry, these numbers are so hard to recall,
5:02
but at the end of the day, we
5:04
are so excited because it works.
5:08
And with these 30 devices, and I just
5:10
want to share a quick story about why
5:12
Chapramari Forest.
5:13
In this particular area, Jane and Lindsay, what
5:17
had happened was a mom, a pregnant elephant
5:21
and her daughter, as well as her herd
5:24
were just crossing because what happens, and I've
5:27
visited this place in Chapramari, the twists and
5:31
turns are so steep and crooked and sudden.
5:35
And what happens is when a train is
5:38
coming from here, this train is unable to
5:40
see that there's an elephant on that side
5:43
because the train, it's so kind of sudden,
5:46
right?
5:47
And so that's why the installation of these
5:49
devices is so critical because what happened in
5:53
that situation is that pregnant elephant and her
5:57
newborn daughter were crushed to death inside the
6:00
Chapramari Forest.
6:02
And so that was, I went and I
6:04
visited that area.
6:05
I saw where they had cremated the three
6:08
elephants.
6:09
And at that time, I made a pledge
6:11
that we are going to do everything we
6:13
can to protect the elephants from getting killed
6:16
on those train tracks.
6:17
It breaks my heart every single day when
6:18
I think of the pregnant mom.
6:20
And so now in collaboration with the Forest
6:23
Department, with the Railway Department, and with our
6:26
team, we are really making significant progress.
6:29
And similar situation with the Buxa Tiger Reserve,
6:32
a herd of three elephants dragged 200 feet
6:36
because of the speeding train.
6:37
Just real heartbreaking stories.
6:40
Well, we actually have a video showing that
6:42
elephants travel in large groups.
6:45
And this is one of the reasons why
6:47
the train tracks are so deadly to them.
6:50
Because as you can see here, this is
6:53
video from Voices for African Asian Society, African
6:58
Elephant Society.
7:00
Asian Elephant Society, sorry.
7:01
They're travelling in very large groups.
7:05
And so when this train hits, it wipes
7:08
out an entire family.
7:11
And of course the family is devastated, fractured,
7:14
doesn't really know how to pick up the
7:17
pieces.
7:18
So this is the device.
7:20
You're looking at it right there.
7:22
It's a high-tech device and artificial intelligence
7:25
is making it even more efficient.
7:27
So this is the next iteration.
7:29
It keeps getting more and more sophisticated.
7:32
I urge everybody, if you care about this
7:34
issue, we're driving animals into extinction.
7:38
And these high-tech methods can truly save
7:43
African elephants.
7:44
But I was also talking to a rescuer,
7:47
an animal advocate who's working with elephants in
7:51
Africa.
7:52
And he was extremely excited upon hearing about
7:57
this, saying that this could help African elephants
8:01
too.
8:02
I mean, could this be deployed worldwide?
8:05
Yeah, actually, yeah.
8:06
What we are doing is we are installing
8:09
these to protect Asian elephants in India, just
8:11
to kind of be clear.
8:13
And then in Africa also, there are similar
8:16
human elephant conflicts that railway tracks, road tracks,
8:20
all these, they actually enter the core elephant
8:23
areas.
8:24
This is absolutely sort of transferable to any
8:29
location, not just to save elephants, but to
8:32
save all wildlife.
8:33
Can you imagine if we had something like
8:36
this that can alert us?
8:37
It's just that they need to be installed
8:40
at certain levels and all of the computer
8:43
programming needs to be changed for specific animals.
8:46
Like for instance, if it is a cougar,
8:48
or if it is fox, or if it's
8:49
tiger, we have different modules for that, right?
8:52
But for elephants, it's a totally different, these
8:55
are all Asian elephants that you're seeing, all
8:57
of them in India.
8:58
And my work is entirely focused in India.
9:01
And these devices, are being installed in the
9:05
Northeastern state of West Bengal.
9:08
And these elephants, you're seeing wild elephants, I
9:10
had actually filmed them in Assam, which is
9:13
the state very much next to the West
9:17
Bengal state.
9:18
And look at how gorgeous and stunningly beautiful
9:20
they are.
9:21
How can we allow these mesmerising majestic creatures
9:25
to perish?
9:26
So we really, all of us have to
9:28
come together to protect them, because they play
9:31
a critical role in the forest ecosystems.
9:34
Oh, for sure.
9:35
And you're doing so much, just that would
9:39
be enough.
9:40
But Sangeeta Iyer through her organisation, and I
9:42
urge everyone watching, just donate something, even $10,
9:46
become a monthly donor, $10 a month, $5
9:49
a month, $25 a month, or feel free
9:52
if you're rolling in it to give 50
9:55
,000, the sky's the limit.
9:58
But the great thing about this organisation is
10:00
it's not theoretical.
10:01
Every cent goes into actually purchasing these devices,
10:06
and other devices that we're going to get
10:08
to that are equally high tech and really
10:11
transforming the lives of elephants in India.
10:15
So what kind of press have you gotten
10:18
on this in India?
10:20
Because so often animal rights advances are ignored.
10:25
But this one I would think in India
10:26
would get a lot of good press.
10:28
Absolutely.
10:29
And yes, when we launched it in 2022,
10:32
it was almost like a statewide coverage.
10:34
And we've got all of the press stories
10:37
on our website, vfaes.org, O-R-G.
10:42
And all of the information in terms of
10:44
even how they function, the basic information is
10:47
available.
10:48
And you see images of all of us
10:50
coming together as a team, that is the
10:52
forest, the railway, the real estate, I'm sorry,
10:55
the T-estate people, real estate, the T
10:57
-estate people, all of us coming together working
10:59
collaboratively.
11:00
And that's yet another thing, Jane, and you
11:03
are the epitome of collaboration, to be honest
11:05
with you.
11:06
Because when we work together, we can achieve
11:09
so much.
11:10
But when we start working in fragments, nobody
11:13
knows what the other person is doing.
11:15
And we can all learn from each other,
11:17
right?
11:17
Because not one individual has all the solutions,
11:20
but one individual has one solution that can
11:23
be transferred to other places, as you mentioned,
11:26
like maybe take what we're doing in India
11:28
over to Africa.
11:29
And, you know, that's the way to save
11:31
all of the animals, right?
11:33
Because they are being diminished at an unprecedented
11:36
rate at this point.
11:38
And one of the reasons is that, oh,
11:41
my gosh, this is another incredible technological advance
11:47
that you've made.
11:48
What we're looking at here is an elephant,
11:51
right?
11:51
This looks like an actual, real elephant being
11:55
used in a religious ritual.
11:58
But guess what?
11:59
This is not a real elephant, because real
12:03
elephants, when they're used in these religious rituals,
12:06
are often tortured.
12:08
In fact, I would say they are tortured,
12:10
period, end of story.
12:12
But this is a robotic elephant that looks
12:15
so much like a real elephant that it's
12:19
now in demand by temples in India who
12:24
would like to switch out to these robotic
12:26
elephants so they don't have to capture elephants
12:30
from the wild, kill like half the herd,
12:33
break them, keep them in shackles, whip them,
12:37
all the other things that go along with
12:39
making elephants perform.
12:41
So can you tell us about what you've
12:44
done with that incredible high-tech solution to
12:48
the problems of elephants being abused as part
12:52
of religious rituals?
12:54
So thank you for asking that question.
12:56
It all began in 2016, you might remember.
12:59
And, of course, Unchained TV is carrying the
13:02
movie Gods and Shackles on your channel, right?
13:05
And so when I launched the film Gods
13:07
and Shackles, I was devastated to witness these
13:10
majestic beings completely enslaved, shackles cutting into their
13:15
flesh, on their ankles, pus oozing, tears flowing
13:19
down their faces, massive tumours on their bodies.
13:23
And I said I needed to do something.
13:24
And I thought, well, producing a film and
13:27
creating awareness is all I was going to
13:29
do.
13:29
But no, actually what happened with that film
13:32
is it created an incredible sense of awareness
13:37
that now the Kerala High Court is intervening.
13:41
So let me speak about that a little
13:43
bit before we get into the robotic elephant
13:46
and the advancements we are making, if that's
13:47
okay with you.
13:48
Yes.
13:49
So what happened is that there's this one
13:52
particular temple.
13:53
It has been actually designated as a United
13:56
States heritage site, right?
14:00
UN heritage.
14:02
Yeah, exactly.
14:03
It's not United States, excuse me, United Nations
14:06
heritage site.
14:08
And so that place is called the Guruvayur
14:11
temple.
14:12
And in that temple, they had, when I
14:15
filmed Gods and Shackles, because there's a segment
14:17
about this temple, they had some 52 elephants.
14:22
Today they have only 38 elephants.
14:25
All of them have died miserable deaths.
14:28
And when I was filming, I still remember
14:31
so vividly, Jane, it was just heartbreaking to
14:35
see this one elephant trying to break his
14:37
chain.
14:38
It's almost like he kept lifting and that's
14:41
the image that you just shared.
14:43
He was just lifting his leg and almost
14:45
showing me, do something, do something for us.
14:49
And then I was filming, he took some
14:52
mud on his trunk and he tossed the
14:54
mud at me.
14:55
It's like, get out of here or do
14:57
something for me.
14:58
There's this communication I was feeling with him.
15:00
And I thought to myself, oh God, not
15:02
just exposing these films, I got to take
15:05
some court action.
15:07
So I filed a Kerala high court case
15:10
in 2022.
15:12
Everything I documented in that film confined to
15:16
merely 19 acres were 52 elephants.
15:20
Now there are only 39 elephants, but according
15:22
to the Central Zoo Authority, each elephant needs
15:26
a minimum of 1.2 acre space.
15:30
And then the painful chains cutting into their
15:33
skin so tightly, so severely tied up, all
15:38
four legs shackled and they're standing on their
15:41
own urine and excrement.
15:43
This is not only causing foot rot, but
15:46
also deadly diseases like tuberculosis, herpes, and all
15:49
of these things.
15:50
A miserable lifetime of isolation, nowhere to go,
15:54
nobody to socialise with.
15:56
Elephants are supremely intelligent and highly social animals.
16:00
The images that you're seeing right now is
16:02
from our camera trap.
16:04
Elephants crossing over the train tracks safely because
16:09
of the installation of the EleSense device.
16:12
But what I'm talking about here is the
16:14
captive elephants, they live in real filthy, filthy
16:17
conditions.
16:18
And so I said, you know, I got
16:20
to do something.
16:21
There's this one particular elephant in captivity.
16:23
His name was Mukundan.
16:26
And his heartbreaking story, he was actually crippled.
16:30
His entire front left leg was so twisted
16:36
that he had to walk with three legs.
16:40
And elephants are so heavy, they bear their
16:43
weight on the four legs.
16:46
It's like the four pillars that bear their
16:48
body's weight.
16:50
But this guy who's only 44 years old,
16:54
he'd been brutally made limb.
16:57
And then in spite of him being limb,
17:00
they were chaining him.
17:02
How can this poor animal hurt anybody?
17:05
He doesn't have any desire to even live,
17:11
let alone trying to fight for his own
17:13
life.
17:14
Sadly, just about a month and a half
17:17
ago, thankfully also he passed away, but he
17:21
died a miserable death.
17:23
And so I launched this court case, giving
17:26
all of the information and I'm so excited
17:29
to share with you that the Animal Welfare
17:31
Board of India and the Central Zoo Authority,
17:35
they visited this location and the Kerala High
17:38
Court constituted a fantastic committee.
17:43
They all went and they inspected this area
17:46
and everything that I had pointed in that
17:49
documentation, they completely, I just felt so vindicated.
17:53
It's not even funny.
17:54
I just felt so vindicated because everything I
17:57
said, they said, okay.
17:59
And here's amazing news.
18:01
Six of the elephants that are kept in
18:04
miserable conditions, the Animal Welfare Board of India
18:07
has asked them to be relocated immediately.
18:11
Move to a rehab centre because of our
18:14
court case.
18:15
And the other thing that has happened with
18:17
the Kerala High Court, another breaking news is
18:20
not a single elephant can be ever transferred
18:23
from any other state for parading.
18:27
That's it, period.
18:28
You guys work with what you guys have
18:30
right now.
18:31
And over and beyond that, the Kerala High
18:33
Court has provided some incredible guidelines.
18:38
If you don't adhere to these guidelines, if
18:41
you flout any of these guidelines, you will
18:44
face the most stringent penalties.
18:47
And again, everything's like a, how would you
18:51
say, cascading effect from the gods in shackles
18:54
to people being aware.
18:56
And then there are amazing local activists also.
19:00
After the movie was released, they all started
19:02
speaking out boldly.
19:04
It's almost like they had the permission now
19:06
to talk.
19:07
It's like, come on, let's end this.
19:10
And so- I just wanna jump in
19:12
and say, first of all, kudos.
19:14
This is just an incredible example of how
19:17
one person determined, okay, can make a difference.
19:21
Because you saw that, you saw the horrific
19:25
condition of these elephants in the temple.
19:28
You made a vow that you were gonna
19:30
help these elephants.
19:32
You took legal action because you did a
19:36
documentary called Gods in Shackles, which is streaming
19:40
on Unchained TV.
19:41
Just go to Unchained TV and you can
19:44
watch it for free.
19:46
It is a really spectacular documentary that has
19:50
won awards, but it also provides the evidence.
19:54
In other words, the evidence is right there
19:57
for the legal authorities to see.
20:02
And that's why, if you had just gone
20:04
there without videotaped evidence, you would not have
20:07
had the same outcome.
20:09
But you had videotaped evidence of what's happening
20:12
to these elephants.
20:13
So you said, just to recap, six of
20:16
them have to be moved out through a
20:18
sanctuary.
20:19
And so that leaves 32.
20:22
And no more coming in.
20:25
No more coming in.
20:27
And so here's yet another thing, right?
20:29
So these 32 elephants, now they're crammed into
20:33
a 19 acre land.
20:36
But the Animal Welfare Board of India has
20:39
actually said, no, you got to create more
20:42
space.
20:43
They have, like this temple has 60 to
20:46
80 acres of land.
20:48
So the Animal Welfare Board of India has
20:51
stipulated that one single elephant has to have
20:55
a minimum of 1.2 acres.
20:59
Number two, no more iron chains.
21:03
The iron chains need to have sheathing, or
21:05
you have to put rope around their legs.
21:08
Not all four legs can be tethered.
21:11
Only one leg can be tethered if necessary.
21:15
Otherwise, allow them to be in their enclosure.
21:18
Routine health checks for every, I'm reading it
21:21
out of all of the results that the
21:24
Animal Welfare Board of India has recommended, that
21:26
routine health checks in order to make sure
21:29
that they don't have herpes, or they don't
21:32
have tuberculosis.
21:33
First and foremost, ensuring that all of them
21:36
have shades over their head.
21:39
Out of these 39 elephants, at least 17
21:42
of them have no shelter to shade them
21:45
from the sun, the scorching sun of India.
21:48
And so that is yet another thing.
21:50
And water, like there's no water.
21:53
I actually documented one elephant just desperately trying
21:57
to reach and drink water.
22:00
He couldn't even reach.
22:01
And this is a religious temple?
22:05
Yes.
22:06
And this cruelty is happening in the name
22:08
of religion?
22:10
In the name of culture and religion, exactly.
22:12
And that's the irony of it all in
22:14
India.
22:15
I have questions.
22:17
Yes.
22:18
You're saying, was this a UNESCO World Heritage
22:21
Site?
22:22
Exactly.
22:22
How is it possible that the folks from
22:25
the UNESCO World Heritage Foundation, or whatever they
22:28
call it, didn't see this and say, there's
22:32
a problem here?
22:33
Because the temple is located in one area.
22:38
And this, I call this an elephant concentration
22:41
camp.
22:41
This concentration camp for elephants is located in
22:44
a different area.
22:46
So what UNESCO people did was just, and
22:48
I even contacted them.
22:49
And I said, you have given this temple
22:52
the World Heritage Site status.
22:55
And this is how they treat elephants.
22:58
Then the woman said, well, this has something
23:00
to do with culture.
23:02
I'm like, well, so because it has to
23:04
do with culture, does that mean that they
23:07
treat the animals in any which way they
23:09
want, like with such utter cruelty and disdain
23:12
and disregard?
23:13
And they couldn't answer the question.
23:15
So I'm sure maybe you and I can
23:17
talk and figure out a way to maybe
23:22
come up with something like a campaign or
23:24
something.
23:25
Well, I mean, I've been to UNESCO World
23:28
Heritage Sites and they're always spectacular.
23:31
And you learn a lot.
23:32
They're historic.
23:33
There's very few of them.
23:34
It's a big planet.
23:36
And so I think that shame on them.
23:40
And now you have the backing of the
23:42
authorities.
23:43
It's not just you saying it.
23:45
So my question to you is, have you
23:47
taken the decision of the authorities in India
23:51
that sided with you about the conditions?
23:53
And have you gone back to the UNESCO
23:55
World Heritage Organisation to say, here.
23:59
So not yet.
24:00
There's a reason why we haven't done that.
24:02
So the report has been produced by the
24:05
AWBI, Animal Welfare Board of India and the
24:08
Central Zoo Authority, and has been submitted to
24:10
the Kerala High Court.
24:11
Now there are going to be a few
24:13
more hearings because that temple is going to
24:15
come back and say, oh, blah, blah, blah,
24:17
blah.
24:17
You know how it goes, right?
24:18
They're going to come back and start arguing.
24:20
And that argument will go on for a
24:22
little while.
24:22
But this is huge news because the Animal
24:26
Welfare Board of India and the Central Zoo
24:28
Authority have sided with what we have observed.
24:32
Ultimately, I am absolutely certain that the Kerala
24:35
High Court will make a proper judgement.
24:38
And when that judgement is received, that's when
24:42
we can take that judgement and we can
24:44
then go.
24:45
So this is still a long ways to
24:46
go, maybe about a year, because the wheels
24:49
of justice turns ever so slowly, as we
24:52
all know, around the world.
24:53
A couple of questions then, will the six
24:56
elephants, will they be transferred before the end
25:00
of the court case or are they stuck
25:01
there until the end of the court case?
25:03
So that's one of the things that we
25:06
are watching, because I think the court hearing
25:08
is on the 14th, which is tomorrow.
25:11
And of course, the arguments will go on
25:13
for a few weeks, months.
25:15
And we are hoping that we'll receive a
25:19
judgement early next year.
25:21
So it's still a few months to bear.
25:23
And I know these elephants have been there
25:25
for decades.
25:26
And so, I mean, as much as we
25:28
would like to move them right now, that
25:30
may not be possible because of the fact
25:33
that the Kerala High Court needs to give
25:35
the judgement.
25:36
And I just have to say, we invite
25:38
anybody involved, the UNESCO World Heritage Organisation, the
25:42
temple itself, on Unchained TV, anytime.
25:46
We would love to dialogue with you and
25:49
get your side of the story and get
25:51
your response to what Sangeeta has documented.
25:55
Meanwhile, all of us can take action.
25:57
We're not powerless, because people are like, oh
25:59
my gosh, oh no.
26:00
Yeah, you can donate to VFAES.org.
26:05
That stands for Voices for Asian Elephants Society
26:10
.org.
26:11
And your money will go directly to creating
26:14
alternatives.
26:15
So I want Lindsay to play a clip
26:18
of you describing the robotic elephants.
26:21
Because let me just say this, all of
26:23
this is happening because they're using live elephants
26:25
in religious temples and religious ceremonies.
26:29
Now, Sangeeta, through her organisation, has developed these
26:31
incredibly lifelike robotic elephants.
26:35
Let's hear her describe these elephants, and then
26:39
we're going to talk about it on the
26:41
other side.
26:42
Great.
26:45
Just look at this majestic elephant.
26:48
Doesn't he look real?
26:50
Well, actually, he is a robotic elephant, and
26:54
Voices for Asian Elephants has donated this beautiful
26:59
majestic elephant to a temple in the Gudaloo
27:03
district of Tamil Nadu, the first ever in
27:05
the state.
27:06
And this particular district actually borders Kerala.
27:10
And the purpose of providing this robotic elephant
27:15
is to replace live elephants and end elephant
27:19
torture.
27:20
But just look at his eye.
27:22
It moves as though this is actually a
27:25
real elephant.
27:26
Look at the eyelashes.
27:28
Look at the texture of his skin.
27:31
This whole robotic elephant was designed by Prasant,
27:34
who owns this organisation called HEARTS.
27:39
That is H E dash R.
27:43
This is just the very first robotic elephant
27:47
that Voices for Asian Elephants has sponsored with
27:50
the support of Ganesh Hariharan.
27:52
And the mission is to promote humane treatment
27:56
of elephants, while at the same time preserve
27:59
India's rich culture and heritage.
28:03
Wow, that is so exciting.
28:06
And I think that everybody there looked very
28:09
excited.
28:10
It's not a sacrifice.
28:12
I mean, the robotic elephants are super cool.
28:15
So you're saying that this is getting a
28:17
lot of news media coverage in India.
28:20
Look, there are a lot of very wealthy
28:22
people in India, tech billionaires.
28:25
Have you been able to reach them?
28:26
Because with pocket change, they could have not
28:30
only the high-tech train devices, but the
28:35
robotic elephants, they could solve this with the
28:39
amount of money that it takes to get
28:43
on a private jet and go somewhere.
28:44
Yeah, absolutely.
28:46
And it's not about how much they have,
28:48
but it's the willingness.
28:50
It's that some of them, or I would
28:52
say most of them, are unwilling to even
28:55
consider.
28:55
But let me tell you this.
28:57
The first robotic elephant was launched in February
29:00
of this year, and we are launching the
29:02
next robotic elephant in February 2025, thanks to
29:07
Dolores Whitley.
29:08
She fully sponsored that particular robotic elephant that
29:13
we are about to launch.
29:14
And we won't be able to share the
29:17
exact location, but what I can do is
29:19
when I am there, and after the ceremonies
29:22
are done, I will share with you the
29:25
images and videos, and you can do with
29:27
it what you wish.
29:29
But that's how we're going to continue to
29:32
end elephant slavery and elephant abuse, because we
29:38
are providing alternatives.
29:39
It's one thing for us to go there
29:41
and say, no, no, no, no, don't use
29:42
elephants.
29:43
We are not offending any of them because
29:45
we are saying, hey, we honour and respect
29:48
your rich culture and traditions.
29:51
But the thing with the Indian culture also
29:54
is that Hindu philosophies are grounded in ahimsa,
29:59
which is nonviolence.
30:00
And then when you awaken these people and
30:03
remind them that, hey, everything you're doing goes
30:07
against our philosophies, so kind of in a
30:10
gentle manner, nudging them and using the power
30:14
of culture and religion to change their way
30:16
of thinking, right?
30:18
They are being misinterpreted, all of the religious
30:21
scriptures and cultural stuff.
30:23
So it's our job to kind of help
30:25
them unlearn and then relearn the new way.
30:28
And by the way, if you're watching this
30:30
on social media, share it out, because you
30:34
could hit one person that might decide, you
30:36
know what, I just got a bonus.
30:38
I'm going to give it to Sangeeta and
30:40
the Voices for Asian Elephant Society.
30:44
Go ahead.
30:46
Yeah, I just wanted to say that since
30:49
it's a religious ceremony and it's about symbolism,
30:53
the robotic elephants serve the purpose beautifully.
30:57
So that's a great thing.
30:58
And my question is, how much per elephant
31:03
robotic does it cost?
31:06
Go ahead.
31:07
Sorry.
31:07
Yeah, no, no, no, go ahead.
31:08
So it varies.
31:10
It just the manufacturing of the elephant itself
31:13
costs some six lakhs, that is, oh, God,
31:16
that's 600,000 rupees, right?
31:20
When we convert it, I think it works
31:22
out to something like 6,000 or 7
31:26
,000 US dollars.
31:28
But then there is additional costs involved in
31:30
terms of transportation, in terms of creating the
31:33
ornaments, in terms of creating all kinds of
31:36
additional stuff, right, for the elephant to be
31:39
transported or to be placed upon so that
31:43
he can be then toured across because they
31:45
put him on a wheel, something, and then
31:48
they drag the robotic elephant around just the
31:51
way they do with live elephants instead of,
31:54
you know, harassing and abusing those elephants.
31:56
So it costs anywhere between 7,000 to
32:01
10,000 US dollars, all inclusive.
32:04
And one of the things we also do
32:06
is we also have like, you know, legal
32:09
requirements, ensuring that they are not misusing or
32:13
abusing that all of these things.
32:16
If there's a problem with the maintenance, then
32:18
the temple would take charge of taking care
32:20
of it, look after the elephant, because then
32:23
there's a sense of accountability.
32:25
So yes, it's between somewhere between 8,000,
32:28
10,000 bucks.
32:28
Is it electric, or is it charged?
32:32
Do you charge it or is battery powered?
32:34
How does it work?
32:35
It's battery powered, and it's AI powered and
32:39
battery powered.
32:40
And so this is the thing.
32:41
It's not just the ear flapping, but this
32:45
elephant can also actually squirt water on you.
32:49
That's the kind of blessings that the real
32:52
elephants provide.
32:53
So they have that.
32:55
And then there's also the tail, also in
32:58
the backside, you know, moves.
33:00
And so there's a whole bunch of movement
33:02
things happening.
33:03
It's completely battery operated.
33:05
Oh, my gosh, that's incredible.
33:07
So $10,000 there's, I think, let me
33:11
ask you this question, because, you know, I've
33:13
been in this movement for quite a long
33:15
time, and I've emceed many galas raising funds.
33:19
What I've noticed is, if you can name
33:22
the elephant after the person, yes, that might
33:25
be the thing.
33:27
Because people love to say, I've got something
33:31
named after me.
33:32
Yeah, that's what we did.
33:34
That's what we did with the first elephant.
33:36
We named, I asked Ganesh Hariharan, who had
33:39
sponsored the first elephant.
33:41
And he actually dedicated that elephant to his
33:48
father, his late father.
33:49
So we gave the elephant his father's name.
33:52
Wow.
33:53
I'm sorry, I wanted to just put in
33:57
there that I know this a little different,
33:59
but electronic replacement of horse-drawn carriages with
34:03
electronic carts has done incredibly well, where the
34:07
drivers are actually making more money and less
34:10
upkeep.
34:11
So this may be an economic solution.
34:15
So that's great to know.
34:16
I just wanted to throw that in.
34:17
Absolutely.
34:18
Absolutely.
34:18
Yes.
34:19
Anytime you take a ride, I'm very ashamed
34:22
to say, and one of the reasons that
34:24
I've been trying to do a living immense
34:25
for many years is, when I went to
34:27
India many years ago with my mother, we
34:31
rode on an elephant and I didn't know
34:33
better.
34:34
I said, oh, I love elephants.
34:36
And then, oh, thinking that it was fun
34:38
for them not knowing that it involved such
34:43
torture.
34:44
And I'm ashamed of myself, even though that
34:46
was, my gosh, back in 1993 or four.
34:53
But I've been seeking to do a living
34:56
immense ever since to make up for it.
34:59
And let's talk a little bit about that.
35:02
Part of the exploitation of India's elephants is
35:05
for tourism, right, Sangeeta?
35:08
Well, for the most part, unlike Thailand, there's
35:11
a little bit of difference between what happens
35:13
in Thailand and in India.
35:14
Yes, there is a segment of population who
35:18
still thrive on elephant back rides, even in
35:21
India, even Indian people.
35:23
But out of the 2,600 odd captive
35:26
elephants, I think about 3,000 captive elephants,
35:30
at least 1,200 to 1,300 of
35:33
them are in the religious institutions like the
35:38
temples, the mosques, and even churches.
35:40
All of them, because they say, oh, well,
35:42
if temple is getting, if this temple is
35:44
getting a piece of economic pie, why not
35:47
me?
35:48
And I think Lindsay hit the nail right
35:50
on saying that, hey, you guys are actually
35:52
going to be saving a lot of money
35:54
by implementing this robotic elephant.
35:57
That's one of the things we actually talked
35:59
to the previous temple authorities.
36:02
And now this other temple authorities with whom
36:05
we are working right now to sponsor our
36:07
February or to launch our February robotic elephant,
36:11
we're saying the same thing, that upkeep is
36:13
much better.
36:15
And more than anything, there are no stampedes.
36:19
People are not getting killed.
36:20
Elephants are not getting tortured.
36:22
So it's a win-win situation overall.
36:24
Now, where can these elephants go as you
36:27
replace the living elephants with the robotic elephants?
36:31
Again, anybody who wants to get an elephant
36:33
named after them, a robot elephant, 10,000
36:36
bucks, you got it.
36:38
It's very tempting.
36:40
And so where do the living elephants go?
36:44
Are there elephant sanctuaries that they can be
36:46
shipped to immediately where they can live out
36:48
their lives in peace and serenity?
36:50
Right.
36:51
So that's one of the things that the
36:52
Kerala High Court as well as the Animal
36:55
Welfare Board of India are actually suggesting that
36:59
there needs to be, there was a sort
37:02
of like a contemplation, almost a construction of
37:05
a rehab centre that began in 2018.
37:08
It is still incompleted and it's called the
37:11
Kottur Elephant Rehab Centre.
37:13
So they have this one rehab centre.
37:16
But the problem with that rehab centre is
37:18
that they still don't have positive reinforcement training,
37:21
you know, where there's this, you know, reward,
37:25
like you do something good and you, you
37:27
know, so you get rewarded with bananas or
37:29
all kinds of treats, et cetera, et cetera.
37:31
Or there's no foot care, there's no exercise
37:35
because elephants are enormous physically, emotionally, they need
37:39
to have some kind of a, you know,
37:42
enrichment programmes, right?
37:44
And so those are some of the things
37:46
that have been recommended in this report that
37:50
the Animal Welfare Board of India has provided.
37:53
And specifically they have said that Kerala is
37:56
an elephant state.
37:58
And so you ought to have a rehab
38:00
centre up and running to take in these
38:03
elephants that are either geriatric, that are old,
38:07
that are disabled, you know, and the temples
38:09
themselves, they can actually create sort of like
38:14
a 1.2 acre space easily.
38:17
They're rich.
38:17
I mean, Indian temples are really rich.
38:20
Let me ask you this question because Lindsay
38:24
raised the whole issue of horse-drawn carriages.
38:28
And in New York City, where I grew
38:30
up, it's been a battle, a battle for
38:33
decades to get them off the streets.
38:35
It's so horrible to watch them navigating police
38:41
cars, taxi cabs, buses, motorcycles.
38:44
It's so awful that in the arguably most
38:48
important city, this is still happening.
38:50
They've made some incremental progress of getting them
38:53
to be mostly in Central Park as opposed
38:57
to navigating up and down like Times Square.
39:01
However, the news media has never been very
39:05
friendly toward this whole effort.
39:07
And they constantly promote the romance of a
39:10
horse-drawn carriage.
39:12
And on Unchained TV, we have a great
39:14
episode with the movie star, Kathy Najimy, confronting
39:19
people about getting on horse-drawn carriages and
39:22
begging them not to do it.
39:24
But in India, is the news media siding
39:28
with the old, oh, it's culture, the temple,
39:31
or are they siding with, hey, let's get
39:34
these animals out of these temples?
39:37
And what was their reaction to the findings
39:40
and the victory you saw in court?
39:43
So the findings and the victory in court
39:46
are still actually not being released to the
39:49
media.
39:49
But what they have been incredibly supportive of
39:52
is the launch of our robotic elephant.
39:54
Again, on our website, a tonne of media
39:57
coverage, especially The Hindu, which is like one
40:02
of the most highly read, it's like one
40:06
of the most respected dailies in India.
40:09
And so they covered the story.
40:12
The BBC covered the story.
40:14
And there's a lot of media that actually
40:17
understands the importance of protecting elephants.
40:22
And here's the thing, when we released Gods
40:24
and Shackles, that is when I believe that
40:28
even the media felt kind of, okay, I
40:31
have the permission now to speak, right?
40:33
Because they were all controlled by the lobby
40:38
groups, as we know it, and the politicians,
40:42
they're all in it together, as we know,
40:45
everywhere around the world.
40:47
And the only thing we can all do
40:48
is collectively come together and talk and empower
40:51
even the media by offering them exclusive stories,
40:55
talking to them on an ongoing basis, cultivating
40:57
relationships, and kind of even ensuring that there's
41:01
no both-ism.
41:02
When it's torture, it is torture.
41:05
You cannot go and ask a temple authority,
41:08
why do you have elephant?
41:10
And then a person who is trying to
41:12
save the elephant to balance the story.
41:16
I mean, that's kind of nonsensical.
41:17
But I didn't experience any of that.
41:20
What happened was the media was very supportive.
41:23
And as soon as we have the Kerala
41:25
High Court's decision that comes out, we will
41:28
definitely do a mass media coverage of that
41:32
as well.
41:32
Okay, when I think of India, and I
41:34
did visit India with my mom many years
41:36
ago, and it's such an incredible country, but
41:39
I also think of Bollywood.
41:41
And I know that Bollywood stars are very
41:45
influential in India.
41:47
Have you managed to get any Bollywood stars
41:49
on your side?
41:50
Because I have a feeling that if you
41:52
did, that would be like the tipping point.
41:56
Like maybe get one of these robotic elephants
42:00
named after a Bollywood star.
42:03
Or think outside the box, because honestly, I
42:07
think that we do live in a celebrity
42:09
culture.
42:10
That's just a fact.
42:11
And Bollywood is so hot.
42:13
And these Bollywood stars, I think, would have
42:16
huge influence.
42:18
Yes, actually, we have reached out to Abraham,
42:22
John Abraham.
42:23
He's an animal welfare kind of person.
42:26
And he speaks out against any kind of
42:29
cruelty, hurting the dogs or cats and whatever.
42:33
They push out a couple of social media
42:35
posts, but there's nothing more than that.
42:38
The kind of animal advocacy we see in
42:41
Hollywood is what we don't see.
42:45
We don't see that kind of love for
42:48
animals in Bollywood.
42:49
In fact, I even met Priyanka Chopra when
42:52
I was at the South by Southwest Festival.
42:54
I gave her a copy of my book.
42:56
And then what we had also done is
42:58
when we had the Emmy Awards, even the
43:00
Oscars, we distributed my books as a special
43:04
gift to all of those actors, actresses, et
43:07
cetera, as a special gift.
43:09
But who's going to speak out for them?
43:12
They're all afraid that, oh, if they spoke
43:14
out against the culture, then there's going to
43:16
be a backlash and they're going to lose
43:18
their fans.
43:19
So it's a very different kind of thinking.
43:22
And the culture is very different in India.
43:25
Again, I'm not saying that they won't, but
43:27
they just don't speak out the way the
43:30
Hollywood celebrities speak out.
43:31
They come strong and they speak out for
43:35
the voice.
43:36
Some of them.
43:37
Some of them at least.
43:39
Like Joaquin Phoenix and Moby and some of
43:42
the heroes we have, and Billie Eilish.
43:45
But they're few and far between, quite honestly.
43:49
So I also want to ask you about
43:51
politics in India.
43:52
Honestly, I'm not an expert in the political
43:54
system and the political infighting in India, but
43:59
where do the politicians stand on all this?
44:02
So the ruling party right now is grounded
44:07
in Hinduism.
44:08
And there is a very wealthy person who...
44:13
You don't need to name that person.
44:15
No, I won't.
44:16
That's why I didn't name who.
44:17
That's why I said who actually is very
44:20
cosy up, cozying up with the current political
44:24
party.
44:25
But it is money dominance.
44:27
Let me leave it at that.
44:29
And this person owns a lot of animals
44:34
and he's got a fascination for animals.
44:37
And there are a lot of good things
44:39
he's doing.
44:40
Definitely.
44:41
He's rescued a lot of zoo elephants.
44:43
They have rescued some circus elephants.
44:45
But there's also some insidious things that are
44:49
probably going on.
44:50
I don't have any evidence regarding that, but
44:55
there are talks that maybe even wild elephants
44:57
are being captured.
44:58
Again, I'm not going to say that without
45:00
having any evidence, but there's always controversy surrounding
45:04
them.
45:05
And then when it comes to anything to
45:07
do with culture and Hinduism, et cetera, it's
45:10
a very sensitive topic in India.
45:13
And the politicians revolve around protectionism, wherein it's
45:19
all about protecting our culture and traditions.
45:22
Doesn't matter how much what harm we cause.
45:26
So this is where I'm using the same
45:28
Hinduism to say, hey, Hinduism actually promotes nonviolence.
45:34
How about if we take a look at
45:35
that rather than misinterpreting the scriptures, et cetera?
45:39
Shall we just really authentically embrace what it
45:43
means?
45:43
Not because it benefits all of you guys,
45:46
but because that is the reality.
45:48
That's what the Hinduism preaches, ahimsa.
45:53
There's one other issue that I want to
45:56
get to that's really important.
45:58
And I want to put it in context.
46:00
I'd like to find out how many elephants
46:02
remain in India who are not just in
46:05
temples, but who are roaming free.
46:08
And your effort to create wildlife corridors for
46:12
this, because if the elephants just stay in
46:15
one area, they inbreed, and that creates a
46:18
whole set of problems.
46:19
So you're trying to create wildlife corridors throughout
46:22
India where these elephants can travel from one
46:26
area to another.
46:27
And again, when you donate to Voices for
46:32
Asian Elephant Society, hopefully we can put up
46:35
the donate link, there it is, vfaes.org,
46:39
even $10 a month, $5 a month.
46:42
Cumulatively, this is going to create the funds
46:45
that allow Sangeeta to buy the land.
46:48
Tell us about it.
46:49
Yeah.
46:50
Thank you for asking that question.
46:51
That's a very important point you're making, right?
46:54
Because if they don't have enough space, inbreeding
46:59
is definitely going to happen, and that is
47:02
going to reduce the genetic pool significantly.
47:05
And therefore, what we are doing is we
47:08
are purchasing...
47:09
First of all, what we did was we
47:11
are rewilding some of the forests that have
47:13
completely been degraded.
47:16
And so just recently, about a few months
47:19
back, we planted some 50,000 elephant-friendly
47:22
saplings.
47:24
We created eight large water holes.
47:27
And we have amazing images and videos of
47:30
elephants visiting the water holes.
47:33
You can see the elephant footprints, and it
47:35
just makes my heart smile.
47:37
And so that is how we started.
47:40
Then I asked, why can we not buy
47:43
some of these areas and own it?
47:46
Because then it'll be protected.
47:47
And so next year, I'm again excited to
47:51
share with you that we are purchasing a
47:53
12-acre plot of land around the forest
47:57
fringes in Odisha, and we're going to continue
48:00
to expand it around the circumference of the
48:04
forest itself, and then rewild, and then plant
48:08
saplings as we had done in the past
48:11
because of the experience.
48:13
And we are also employing tribal women.
48:16
So this is women empowerment.
48:17
This is such a win-win situation because
48:20
we're helping the elephants, we're helping women, we're
48:22
helping men who are digging water holes.
48:24
We are hiring local people to...
48:27
Engineers to go and figure out where we
48:30
can find water, where there are water sources.
48:34
So we are talking and consulting with conservationists
48:37
locally on the ground.
48:38
It is such a win-win situation.
48:40
It is heartening because corridors are diminishing at
48:45
an unprecedented rate.
48:47
Human population in India, just to provide you
48:50
some perspective, 18% of the world's human
48:54
population is situated in India.
48:56
18%, just wrap your mind around that.
48:59
That is 1.42 billion people as we
49:03
are talking right now.
49:06
And the competition for space is rampant.
49:09
Elephants have already lost 80% of their
49:11
space.
49:12
And that is because people are encroaching into
49:15
the forest.
49:16
They're extracting all of the natural resources that
49:19
belong to elephants.
49:20
Elephants are left with nothing.
49:21
They come outside into the villages in search
49:24
of food and water, these famished, thirsty elephants.
49:28
And then that spurs human-elephant conflict.
49:31
So it's a lose-lose situation with tragedies
49:34
for elephants and humans.
49:36
And so we are now consulting with many,
49:38
many villages living on the forest fringes and
49:41
saying, hey, how about if we worked collectively?
49:43
We distributed 5,000 flashlights, simple things like
49:47
that.
49:48
5,000 flashlights.
49:50
Because when the tea plantation workers return home,
49:53
they don't even, there are no streetlights, you
49:57
know?
49:57
And they actually by mistake run into elephants
50:00
or wildlife.
50:01
But when they have flashlights, even snake bites
50:04
have reduced because the snakes are also alerted.
50:08
And then of course, yeah, it's a win
50:10
-win situation.
50:12
So when you think of India, you think
50:16
of elephants.
50:17
Doesn't the Indian government realise that elephants are
50:21
a national treasure?
50:23
Why isn't the Indian government itself making these
50:28
wildlife corridors?
50:30
I mean, this is, you're taking it on,
50:33
but oh my gosh, this should be something
50:34
that the government of India does.
50:38
Yeah.
50:38
And when you ask them, they will say
50:41
we are doing what we can.
50:43
And yet it's the lackadaisical approach, the apathy,
50:48
the complicity, the negligence.
50:51
I mean, okay, so in just being ruthlessly
50:54
honest with you, some of the forest officers
50:57
who are on the ground, they're not even
50:59
qualified.
51:01
They just don't even know what the hell
51:03
they're doing there.
51:04
They're not educated.
51:06
Some of them are totally unwilling to be
51:08
educated.
51:09
Okay, but I gotta jump in here.
51:11
I'm not talking about them.
51:13
I'm talking about buying the land.
51:15
Government, I know.
51:16
I know.
51:17
Buying the vast swaths of land because they're
51:19
not going to do that.
51:22
Development is their main focus.
51:26
Mining is rampant across Odisha.
51:28
That's why we are buying it.
51:30
Yes, of course, they can easily buy.
51:34
How much for an acre?
51:37
How much does it cost?
51:38
Because people like to break it down.
51:39
When you see successful organisations, they say buy
51:43
an acre or buy half an acre or
51:45
buy this.
51:46
In other words, yeah.
51:49
It varies depending on the place, but the
51:52
place where we are buying right now, it
51:54
is approximately $6,000 per acre, which is
51:58
not a lot, $6,000 per acre.
52:01
And it's on the forest fringes.
52:03
And of course, in addition to that, we
52:05
need to raise funds for planting, sapling, for
52:08
creating water holes.
52:09
All those things, they come up over and
52:11
over on top of the land purchase, right?
52:15
So yeah, so that's- We are reaching
52:18
the end of our conversation, but we could
52:20
talk for hours.
52:21
One other thing Sangeeta is doing, which I
52:25
find fascinating is, unfortunately, elephants fall into wells.
52:30
And she is creating these barriers around the
52:33
well so that the elephants don't walk in
52:35
and fall.
52:37
So you are doing so much, and it's
52:40
all so practical, and it's all so cost
52:44
-effective.
52:45
I would urge everybody, I interviewed so many
52:48
organisations, I have honestly never seen an organisation
52:53
that has so many low-cost, practical ways
52:57
to make a big difference.
52:59
And then once they're successful in India, they
53:03
can be expanded to Africa, to Latin America,
53:07
to other places.
53:08
Not that there's elephants in Latin America, but
53:10
they can be expanded to other regions, other
53:14
animals, other species.
53:16
This is really important work you're doing.
53:18
So I urge everybody, donate to vfaes.org,
53:26
vfaes.org.
53:29
And let's be part of the solution.
53:32
I want to thank you so much, Sangeeta,
53:35
for being a part of this.
53:37
It's just so wonderful.
53:40
Well, thank you for having me, and thank
53:42
you for taking the time to explain and
53:45
dig into all of the details.
53:47
I mean, there's none like you.
53:49
So thank you so much for the opportunity,
53:51
for being a voice for our beautiful elephants.
53:54
I really appreciate it.
53:55
Lindsay, thank you also for joining and for
53:57
your beautiful, brilliant questions.
53:58
Thank you.
54:00
Yes, Lindsay, you did an incredible job.
54:02
She was our director today and always doing
54:06
a great job.
54:07
All right, everybody, you've seen the solution.
54:09
Let's go do it.
54:11
Thank you so much.
54:13
See you next time.
54:15
Thank you.
54:15
Bye, guys.
54:16
Bye.