Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Whole Brain Child #6 PFC Power ups - Guiding Kids to Upstairs Growth | Ep. 87

Transcript

Whole Brain Child #6 PFC Power ups - Guiding Kids to Upstairs Growth | Ep. 87 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Welcome back to another episode of the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:10
  I'm your host, Cheryl Lang, and today we're diving into a topic that's all about nurturing your children's minds.
• 0:20
  You know, as parents, we're like the architects of our kids future, helping them to build these incredible upstairs brains.
• 0:31
  As we continue our discussion of The Whole Brain Child by Drs.
• 0:35
  Siegel and Bryson, we're going to explore how empathy, decision making, And the dose of intentionality are our parenting tools to equip our children to use that miraculous upstairs brain.
• 0:53
  On this episode, we're looking at teaching your child to see things from someone else's shoes and walking them through making choices and weaving intentionality into everyday parenting moments.
• 1:08
  So, grab your favorite beverage and listen in.
• 1:12
  As we dive into this journey together.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: y'all When my son Alex was here visiting from out of the country, he is a runner, and like, he lives in Mumbai, India, and he has done marathons, and it never gets below 96 degrees there, I mean, and the humidity is...
• 1:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:42
  Cheryl: So he thought our summer here in Oklahoma was a breeze.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: It was comfortable.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: So he would just go out in the middle of the day and he goes, This is nothing.
• 1:52
  Cheryl: Here in Edmond, they are trying to connect all the different parks so you can ride your bike or run or walk going from park to park to park all the way across, all out to Lake Arcadia.
• 2:03
  Ellen: Is that what they're doing?
• 2:07
  Cheryl: It's called exercise.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: No, I meant the roads.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: Oh, you mean.
• 2:09
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 2:11
  Cheryl: Oh, actually, they've got a thing going under I 35.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: Oh, that's cool.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 2:15
  Cheryl: And so he said over near us for Integra's hospital, he said, have you gone back there, uh, heading towards the lake?
• 2:23
  Cheryl: And I know, and he's, it's beautiful because immediately you're in the woods.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: You're not back in the city.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: And he said in the middle of the day, the other day, he saw 20 deer on his run and a blue indigo.
• 2:38
  Cheryl: Bird bunting.
• 2:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: A blue.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: I'm sorry, blue bunting.
• 2:41
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: Blue indigo bunting.
• 2:43
  Cheryl: No, blue indigo, bunting, bird.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: Which is rare, huh?
• 2:47
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:47
  Cheryl: And so how cool that's, this is wonderful, but I'm not like Alex, it's too hot.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:53
  Cheryl: I'm gonna wait till we get down.
• 2:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:55
  Cheryl: In the eighties again before I do it.
• 2:57
  Cheryl: Or
• 2:57
  Ellen: you actually go into the house.
• 2:58
  Ellen: But when they have these huge windows and you can look out the window watching
• 3:02
  Cheryl: people exercise
• 3:04
  Christie: in the air conditioning, they built it so you could enjoy the outdoors.
• 3:09
  Cheryl: That's great.
• 3:11
  Christie: I'm definitely not a runner.
• 3:12
  Christie: I'm not ever going to be a runner.
• 3:14
  Christie: I've already decided I will never be a runner.
• 3:16
  Christie: But I've been doing yoga for like the last year or so.
• 3:20
  Christie: And I started after my dad died.
• 3:22
  Christie: It just helped me with anxiety and grief.
• 3:25
  Christie: And, um, and so I wasn't really thinking a whole lot about the physical part of it for the most part.
• 3:31
  Christie: And I realized in the last couple of months, I We'll go to like bend over a certain way to pick something up and I kind of think, Oh, that's going to hurt my back or my knee or something.
• 3:42
  Christie: And then I realized, Oh, it doesn't hurt.
• 3:44
  Christie: Wow.
• 3:45
  Christie: That's great.
• 3:46
  Christie: And so, yeah, it's just funny how little by little you don't realize things are changing in your body.
• 3:51
  Christie: But it truly does.
• 3:52
  Cheryl: And it really worked.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: Imagine that.
• 3:55
  Cheryl: Well, I'm not running in the woods.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: I'm just walking.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:58
  Cheryl: No, I want to protect my joints.
• 4:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:02
  Cheryl: And I'm like you.
• 4:02
  Cheryl: I've never enjoyed running.
• 4:03
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 4:04
  Cheryl: Um, so this is physical exercise, which affects us, but, um, in our discussion today, we're going to talk about exercising something else, parents.
• 4:14
  Christie: I was gonna
• 4:14
  Ellen: say, you know, if we're gonna, if we're gonna exercise our mind, it reminds me of running up and down the stairs.
• 4:21
  Ellen: You're, you know, we've talked about all the things that are in the basement and it's good exercise to run quickly upstairs to the upper part where we can get some answers and get a check on our
• 4:35
  Cheryl: emotions.
• 4:35
  Cheryl: That's good.
• 4:36
  Cheryl: I mean, just the visual
• 4:37
  Ellen: of running and then running
• 4:38
  Cheryl: up the stairs.
• 4:39
  Cheryl: And that's exactly what doctors Siegel and Bryson are talking about in This book.
• 4:45
  Cheryl: And, uh, we're not going to exercise our bodies today, but we're going to talk about Our friend, which is the prefrontal cortex, that's that upstairs you referred to.
• 4:56
  Cheryl: And what we want to do is help our kids learn to exercise it, to develop it.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: And I, uh, love all the steps and the ideas that he gives us here in the book.
• 5:10
  Yeah,
• 5:10
  Christie: he kind of breaks it into four parts.
• 5:13
  Christie: Five different categories or, or ideas of how to exercise the upstairs brain for our kids, which I thought was really helpful and, and practical.
• 5:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:23
  Christie: Well,
• 5:24
  Cheryl: that's the thing.
• 5:25
  Cheryl: A lot of the things he mentioned and we're going to talk about, we did some of them and I had no idea.
• 5:34
  Cheryl: I didn't know the word prefrontal cortex and I didn't realize we actually did some of what he's talking about, but And now we have a name for it.
• 5:44
  Cheryl: Now we have a name
• 5:45
  Christie: for it.
• 5:45
  Christie: Yeah, as I was reading, I was like, yes, exactly.
• 5:48
  Christie: That's what I was thinking the whole time.
• 5:51
  Cheryl: And just what you're talking about with your back, and then with my ability, I'm not running, but I can go longer and farther and more by exercising Yeah.
• 6:03
  Cheryl: And now we're talking about their brains.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Ellen: And we have to start out slow.
• 6:08
  Ellen: That's good.
• 6:08
  Ellen: You know, because our natural, most of us go, Oh, I'm going to go do this run.
• 6:13
  Ellen: Right.
• 6:14
  Ellen: And we kind of lose interest after, you know, Burn out,
• 6:18
  Christie: yeah.
• 6:18
  Christie: Because we started too quickly.
• 6:20
  Christie: Right.
• 6:20
  Christie: And we have to understand our kids are going to be slow at this, it's going to be clumsy at first.
• 6:24
  Christie: And we're going to be
• 6:25
  Ellen: clumsy.
• 6:26
  Ellen: Yes.
• 6:26
  Ellen: Helping them through it.
• 6:27
  Ellen: So don't be discouraged if you feel like, ah, I can't get this.
• 6:31
  Ellen: Right.
• 6:31
  Ellen: Because it is training and it is practicing.
• 6:34
  Ellen: Takes patience.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 6:36
  Cheryl: Well, the big picture of what they're saying is the goal is not to fix our kids.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: Or to make them suddenly have this fully functioning, fantastic brain this instance.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: But the goal is developing it right over the long haul, and then just give these number of, uh, suggestions and strategies for how to do
• 6:59
  Christie: it right.
• 7:00
  Christie: I think that's something that I have struggled with over the course years of parenting is thinking that the issue at hand is the issue.
• 7:09
  Christie: Right.
• 7:09
  Christie: That's exactly right.
• 7:10
  Christie: And really fully understanding.
• 7:11
  Christie: It's actually the learning process and growth that they're.
• 7:14
  Christie: developing while we're dealing.
• 7:17
  Christie: The issue is just the exercise at hand.
• 7:19
  Christie: Wow.
• 7:19
  Cheryl: Because I will say that's where my biggest discouragement came in or still comes in.
• 7:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:24
  Cheryl: When I'm looking at what's right in front of me or what I can see instead of being in there for the long
• 7:31
  Ellen: game.
• 7:32
  Ellen: Right.
• 7:32
  Ellen: You feel like sometimes as a mom you're like, haven't we gone over this?
• 7:35
  Ellen: Like four or five times.
• 7:37
  Ellen: Why are we doing this again?
• 7:39
  Ellen: Right.
• 7:39
  Ellen: And I know even within myself, there's times I'm still doing that.
• 7:43
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 7:44
  Ellen: And so things take a long time.
• 7:46
  Ellen: Training takes a long time.
• 7:48
  Ellen: You don't become a marathon runner, you know, in a week.
• 7:51
  Ellen: Right.
• 7:51
  Ellen: That's a long year.
• 7:52
  Ellen: And I think we have to remember we're in it for the long haul for the rest of our lives, really.
• 7:57
  Christie: Right.
• 7:57
  Christie: And I've been guilty too.
• 7:58
  Christie: I think every parent has actually, but, um, of seeing one.
• 8:04
  Christie: Um, but seeing one action of your child and then, you know, how do you say that, catastrophizing?
• 8:11
  Christie: Catastrophizing.
• 8:12
  Christie: Catastrophizing.
• 8:13
  Christie: Yeah, anyway.
• 8:14
  Christie: Um, but seeing one action of your children and then expecting that to go to the worst case scenario, like they've told one lie and now they're going to be, you know.
• 8:23
  Christie: They're a permanent liar.
• 8:24
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Cheryl: And this goes back to what almost every episode we've had, Christy, you talk about neuroplasticity as our favorite word.
• 8:34
  Cheryl: And this is what this is talking about.
• 8:37
  Cheryl: This is how to redevelop or begin to develop.
• 8:41
  Cheryl: Because, um, if you remember what we talked about, about the prefrontal cortex is like the upstairs attic part of the brain.
• 8:52
  Cheryl: It's physically behind our forehead in the up part of my brain and it's the upper level Higher, mature, thinking, reasoning, self governing, um, the big term is executive function.
• 9:10
  Cheryl: So it's the CEO office that we want to learn to use, um, instead of getting trapped downstairs in our emotions and so forth.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: And um, I love it because I guess the neuroplasticity of it, that We can develop it, and so it can start at any point.
• 9:31
  Cheryl: Any age.
• 9:32
  Cheryl: Any age.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: So, whatever your age of your children, be they teen or two year olds, all of this can be applied.
• 9:39
  Cheryl: You can walk in all this.
• 9:41
  Cheryl: And we can,
• 9:42
  Ellen: too, which is encouraging, you know, you can learn this and practice it just for
• 9:48
  Christie: yourself.
• 9:48
  Christie: Well, yeah, we're learning for life, so we're always going to be looking to our future self as a little wiser than we are today.
• 9:56
  Cheryl: Well, one of the premises he sets forth is, say, don't make decisions for your children.
• 10:04
  Cheryl: But try to help them learn how to walk through making a decision.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:09
  Christie: That was one of the things I feel like I accidentally got right.
• 10:13
  Christie: I didn't mean to.
• 10:14
  Christie: But I have, over the years, found myself, you know, when, when the girls would say, could, could a person do this?
• 10:22
  Christie: Or is, is this an option?
• 10:24
  Christie: And I would say, well, you, you could, you know, you could sneak out in the middle of the night out of your parents house.
• 10:30
  Christie: But here are the possibilities.
• 10:32
  Christie: That might come from that, or you could do it this way, you know, laying out the, the choices, but not telling them, I mean, not that I didn't tell my kids, no, but I just mean, anything is an option, but there's always consequences to the option kind of thing.
• 10:47
  Christie: And I think,
• 10:48
  Ellen: you know, in that is starting young, you know, you start those little choices.
• 10:53
  Ellen: It's, you know, you can wear the blue shorts or the red shorts at little ages.
• 10:59
  Ellen: And letting them have, that's the starting of learning to make choices.
• 11:04
  Ellen: Because by the time the kids get older and they get into the teen years and stuff, they're very complicated things.
• 11:10
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:10
  Ellen: That they need to make choices.
• 11:12
  Ellen: And it's really hard when you, opinion wise, feel like your child isn't making a good choice.
• 11:17
  Ellen: Yes.
• 11:18
  Ellen: But you know it's not.
• 11:20
  Ellen: completely harmful, and so you have to let them do that.
• 11:23
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:24
  Ellen: You have to let them, you know, whether they're wearing shorts, it's the middle of winter.
• 11:29
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 11:29
  Ellen: You know, that's how they learn, and I think sometimes as parents, we're so afraid that harm is going to come, but if you let them make little choices, so they kind of understand that there's consequences, that if it's snowing and you wear sandals, In shorts, you're going to be cold.
• 11:47
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:48
  Ellen: And that doesn't harm anything unless you're going to
• 11:51
  Christie: make them stand in the snow.
• 11:52
  Christie: Well, it does harm one thing.
• 11:53
  Christie: You know what it is?
• 11:54
  Christie: What's that?
• 11:54
  Christie: Your pride.
• 11:55
  Christie: Yes, that's true.
• 11:56
  Christie: You have to answer to your mother in law or to the neighbors or all your friends that are like, yeah, looking at you.
• 12:02
  Christie: I've taken children to church with no shoes, no coat, you know?
• 12:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:08
  Christie: And it's, it's hard because you know people are thinking.
• 12:10
  Christie: Why would that mother Yes.
• 12:11
  Christie: Let that child
• 12:12
  Cheryl: do that.
• 12:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: And you're doing it purposefully, right?
• 12:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: not so you can be free and don't have to parent well, right?
• 12:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:21
  Cheryl: In fact, this is excellent parenting.
• 12:23
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: and exactly what you're saying.
• 12:27
  Cheryl: Let them make as many decisions as you can where they're safe, but you do it with supervision, not just letting them go because he's always saying, come back to the conversation.
• 12:41
  Cheryl: And you were talking, Christy, about option or how you're saying, well, think about it this way.
• 12:47
  Cheryl: He's saying, Yes.
• 12:48
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 12:48
  Cheryl: To work on having conversations where you're saying, what do you think the result would be?
• 12:55
  Cheryl: Where do you think that would go?
• 12:58
  Cheryl: Um, what are the different options that you have and, and help them think through it?
• 13:04
  Cheryl: Because what we're doing, what he says, because they understand the neurology of it, that we're inviting them, if you will, up those stairs into thinking on a higher level.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: Even when it's a five year old who wants to go outside without their coat, well, that's really good.
• 13:22
  Cheryl: Let's talk about what the options are coming back in.
• 13:26
  Cheryl: They're cold.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: All of it, to continue to have the conversation, rather than just let them run wild doing what they want, because that's not what they're talking about.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: Right,
• 13:36
  Ellen: and thinking through...
• 13:38
  Ellen: So, starting when they're little, okay, they're going to make a choice, um, maybe a wrong choice in that they're going to go out without their coat, but they don't last very long.
• 13:49
  Ellen: But that reinforces to them that they can trust you.
• 13:52
  Ellen: My mom suggested that I wear a coat, and I was given the choice, well, if you don't want to wear one, okay, it's going to be cold.
• 13:59
  Ellen: And then they learn, oh, they learn to trust you, oh, my mom or my parents said this might happen.
• 14:07
  Ellen: And it did, and then it helps them be reinforced, Oh, I might have to think a little bit, even at small ages.
• 14:14
  Christie: I think it helps them, gives them some autonomy, and then it's not as humbling to ask for advice, too.
• 14:21
  Christie: Oh, that's a good point.
• 14:22
  Christie: I've seen that some of my girls, it's not a shameful thing to ask for advice because they've been given some independence and autonomy over their
• 14:30
  Cheryl: choices.
• 14:31
  Cheryl: And that's the environment you have, is this is open for discussion.
• 14:36
  Cheryl: And I really like that.
• 14:38
  Cheryl: Another place I think this would be very easily done is with money and allowance.
• 14:44
  Cheryl: And to not say, well, spend your money the way you want, but Talk about it and talk about short term pleasure and long term gain and and those kind of conversations And you know, I can remember we did that like you're saying didn't know it But I stumbled into some of the right stuff talking about it and with Each one of them talking about, well, if you, you know, if you spend it here, you won't have it here.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: And then with some of mine, it was just interesting.
• 15:10
  Cheryl: Same conversations.
• 15:11
  Cheryl: Some, oh, the money burned a hole in their pocket and they just had to spend it.
• 15:15
  Cheryl: And then they didn't have it when they wanted to have it.
• 15:19
  Cheryl: And then others...
• 15:19
  Cheryl: And you don't rescue them.
• 15:21
  Cheryl: Nope.
• 15:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:22
  Cheryl: Because the point's not the money.
• 15:23
  Cheryl: The point is we're trying to help them learn to think.
• 15:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: with this upstairs brain and think through and how you make decisions.
• 15:33
  Cheryl: Okay, and, and like I said, I really like how he comes back and didn't always do this, asking really good questions.
• 15:41
  Cheryl: So how do you feel that turned out?
• 15:44
  Cheryl: What do you think?
• 15:45
  Cheryl: And just open ended questions for them, not where I have an agenda, because I noticed that my kids sometimes, when we would talk about things and they would just look at me and I go, Well, what do you think?
• 15:58
  Cheryl: And they go, we don't know what answer you want.
• 16:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:02
  Cheryl: And.
• 16:03
  Cheryl: I realize, whoa, there's way too much teaching and lecturing going on.
• 16:07
  Cheryl: And I go, I don't have an answer.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: That's what I don't want them to think.
• 16:11
  Cheryl: Okay, you try it.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: You don't have the right idea.
• 16:15
  Cheryl: Let me correct it and tell you how you're supposed to be thinking.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: It's that good conversation.
• 16:19
  Cheryl: It's the thinking about it and the practice of it.
• 16:24
  Cheryl: That's the goal.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: Well, and I
• 16:25
  Christie: think that, that aspect comes from How you respond on the flip side of a bad decision to, you know, like, what do you mean?
• 16:33
  Christie: Well, that's an area that I have not always done right either on the other side of a bad decision, not to come in with teaching and correction.
• 16:40
  Christie: And, you know, I told you so, but instead, Instead, just compassion and, gosh, I'm really sorry about your situation and it's so hard.
• 16:50
  Christie: I see them, you know, stumbling through a bad decision to keep your mouth shut and just to come alongside and give a hug and say we'll get them next time.
• 17:00
  Christie: You
• 17:01
  Ellen: want your kids to make their bad decisions while they're still living at home.
• 17:06
  Ellen: Because you have relationship where you have some, I don't want to use the word control, but you know, some play in their decisions, whether they're little or teenagers.
• 17:17
  Ellen: Once they move out and they get on their own, if you can have a good relationship with them, that's fantastic and they come to you for advice, but that is part of growing up.
• 17:26
  Ellen: You go out and you get on your own and then you are in charge of your decisions.
• 17:30
  Ellen: And you know, um...
• 17:33
  Cheryl: Ellen, we've talked so many times about building the relationship bridge.
• 17:37
  Cheryl: And what were talking about here is that they can trust you not to turn it back on them.
• 17:44
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:45
  Cheryl: Like when they made the stupid mistake.
• 17:47
  Cheryl: But like you say, Christy, there cannot be...
• 17:51
  Cheryl: That we're holding them hostage, I told you so, if it turns back and blows up in their face.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: That we're the safe place and our goal was to have the good conversation and then Allow them, whether at 4 years old or at 40 years old to make their decisions, and I'm in your corner.
• 18:11
  Cheryl: I was just walking with you.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: And I know, I was
• 18:14
  Ellen: talking this weekend to my married daughter and her husband, and I don't even remember what the subject was about, and I said, Well, I just don't get involved.
• 18:24
  Ellen: You guys are all adults.
• 18:26
  Ellen: You can all figure it out.
• 18:28
  Ellen: You know where we are if you need some advice, but you know, you guys...
• 18:31
  Ellen: We'll figure it out, you know, and they just kind of laughed and they're in there well into their thirties and, you know, they understood where I was coming from.
• 18:39
  Ellen: I said, if it's not that I don't care, I just don't feel like that's my place to give you unsolicited advice.
• 18:46
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:46
  Ellen: That's
• 18:46
  Cheryl: right.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: But if they ask you, yeah, and then you could have that conversation back and forth.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: That's a different issue
• 18:53
  Ellen: Because we have to learn that we can't constantly be giving our kids direction and advice.
• 18:58
  Ellen: That's not our job Our job is to set them on the path and to make sure they have the tools to walk through that path.
• 19:05
  Ellen: They have the right shoes, the right shovels, the right whatever it is to hike that hill.
• 19:10
  Ellen: Our job is to be giving them the tools as they go along the
• 19:12
  Cheryl: way.
• 19:13
  Cheryl: Well, what he says in here, he talks about the struggle is what's good.
• 19:17
  Cheryl: That's what you want to do.
• 19:19
  Cheryl: So I would say like the right tools are in the struggle.
• 19:24
  Cheryl: You're walking alongside of them.
• 19:27
  Cheryl: conversation about the options and then after they've made out watch over later ceiling well what do you think how would that workoutale
• 19:39
  Christie: check out what you think I've done it very often or as much as I couldn't but any way Talking about verbalizing their own decision making where their kids kids could hear them.
• 19:49
  Christie: Yeah Yes saying, you know, these are my options.
• 19:52
  Christie: I could do it this way and this might happen I could do it this way and this might happen let them.
• 19:56
  Christie: Yeah watch you walk through that.
• 19:58
  Christie: I thought that that was really good On how to teach by example, not by lecturing.
• 20:03
  Cheryl: Okay, and that's one of the things we stumbled into.
• 20:06
  Cheryl: Um, that we actually, I didn't know was the right thing to do.
• 20:10
  Cheryl: Because I did that a lot.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: Should I get a new washing machine?
• 20:13
  Cheryl: It's on sale.
• 20:14
  Cheryl: And so here's how we do it or other decisions, even like to allow them to do something, let's say a team, or they're trying to make a choice.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: Let's say they started a sports class.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: And you're paying for it, and they really don't want to do it.
• 20:33
  Cheryl: And I remember one in particular got into it and realized, I don't really want to stay in this.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: And then there's the dilemma, is this an appropriate place to back out because it wasn't right?
• 20:43
  Cheryl: or not And I remember having what you're talking about, the dialogue of my struggle, saying, well, here's what I'm presenting, my decision as the parent.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: And so I talked about The pros, cons, what I'm thinking, back and forth.
• 21:00
  Cheryl: And then we had the dialogue together.
• 21:02
  Cheryl: So, whether or not they stayed in the class wasn't the point, but I didn't know it, but I was doing just what you're talking about.
• 21:08
  Cheryl: Right, and
• 21:09
  Christie: especially when it has to do with parenting them, I think it's really helpful for them to get a peek behind the curtain to see, okay, mom really is trying to do her best here.
• 21:17
  Christie: I may not agree with her decision, but I can see her thought process on both
• 21:21
  Cheryl: sides.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 21:22
  Cheryl: It's a great discipleship.
• 21:24
  Cheryl: You're letting them walk alongside you.
• 21:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Cheryl: There was one area in here I was really surprised because it was something that I would have thought was downstairs brain and emotion.
• 21:38
  Cheryl: And he's saying, no, actually this is an upstairs, a high level thinking and it was empathy.
• 21:45
  Cheryl: Had y'all thought of that of empathy as being upper brain, high level, because I thought of it as an emotion.
• 21:53
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:54
  Christie: Yeah, I think Not until I separate the idea of sympathy from empathy, so I really understand that.
• 22:00
  Christie: But sympathy is going to come naturally because you've been through a circumstance and you can have compassion on someone.
• 22:07
  Christie: But empathy really has to be a choice to think.
• 22:10
  Christie: Think about the other person's situation first, and then feel what it would feel
• 22:15
  Cheryl: like.
• 22:16
  Cheryl: And I, I think it's fantastic.
• 22:18
  Cheryl: And I can see it.
• 22:20
  Cheryl: In movies, or when we watch something happen that they weren't involved in.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: To have those conversations going, wow, I wonder how that made them feel.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: And to, so then they enter in, and like I said, I was surprised that's true.
• 22:37
  Cheryl: That's using my upper brain, thoughtful process, not just my emotions.
• 22:43
  Christie: Right.
• 22:43
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:44
  Christie: And the, and he talks about Exercising this in a way that's really intentional, like coming up with hypothetical situations or just when you see someone in a grocery store, something's asking later, Hey, I noticed this, you know, situation.
• 22:58
  Christie: I wonder how that would have felt for it to be that person.
• 23:01
  Christie: I don't think I'm that intentional on things like that, but it was really helpful to think intentional and we don't
• 23:07
  Cheryl: have to do it 14 times a day.
• 23:10
  Cheryl: But just have that in our toolbox to help develop the empathy to be thinking of others.
• 23:17
  Ellen: Well, you know, especially when you have a bigger family, it's really hard to do that, to get to every single one.
• 23:23
  Ellen: But you can make games out of it.
• 23:25
  Ellen: And you can get the kids together and go, Okay, what if we saw...
• 23:32
  Ellen: What would you think about that?
• 23:33
  Ellen: Wow, that's a good idea.
• 23:34
  Ellen: And make it really simple.
• 23:35
  Ellen: You can do that while you're making dinner.
• 23:36
  Ellen: You can do that over the dinner table.
• 23:38
  Ellen: Everybody can talk about their ideas.
• 23:40
  Ellen: That's a great idea.
• 23:41
  Ellen: You know, what they would do in the situation.
• 23:44
  Ellen: No judgment.
• 23:45
  Ellen: And it's neutral because it's not really happening.
• 23:47
  Ellen: Right.
• 23:48
  Ellen: But they get to think about, Yeah, what if I had lost my hand?
• 23:52
  Ellen: And I only had one hand.
• 23:54
  Ellen: What would happen?
• 23:55
  Ellen: What would it be like?
• 23:56
  Christie: Well, and I like you say, That it's neutral because it's not really happening.
• 23:59
  Christie: It's better than teaching you know, to it in the moment where you should feel this way about this.
• 24:05
  Christie: That's shaming.
• 24:06
  Christie: But if it's hypothetical, there's no shame in it.
• 24:09
  Christie: It's just thinking through how you would feel or what
• 24:12
  Cheryl: you would think.
• 24:13
  Cheryl: Somebody I really respect is C.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: S.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: Lewis, and he talks about how important fantasy and fiction are, well written fantasy and fiction, for this purpose.
• 24:24
  Cheryl: I mean, that it's not happening to me, but.
• 24:28
  Cheryl: Enter into someone else's world and feel it and walk with them.
• 24:34
  Cheryl: But this is not just letting them do it on their own.
• 24:36
  Cheryl: But this is the talking about it.
• 24:38
  Cheryl: How do you think they felt?
• 24:39
  Cheryl: you know, in Lord of the Rings?
• 24:41
  Cheryl: how do you think Frodo felt or how did Sam feel when Frodo?
• 24:47
  Cheryl: Was going across the river
• 24:49
  Ellen: when David Copperfield is asking for more, please.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: You know, in contemporary things, a book where they can connect My children are working to bring, various books and materials into their home, where everyone in the book is not healthy, and wealthy and even like a main character has physical disabilities, even in books for the young children, that they might be somebody in a wheelchair and, and just opportunities to develop empathy, to have them be comfortable with people with disabilities, and then to have the conversation, you know, what do you think it would feel like to be blind and, and to talk about it.
• 25:35
  Ellen: Okay.
• 25:35
  Ellen: Think of what it'd be like if you were
• 25:36
  Cheryl: blind.
• 25:37
  Cheryl: And then to have that conversation.
• 25:39
  Cheryl: This is great, because it always goes back to conversations with TPP.
• 25:43
  Cheryl: You know, one of the things that we have seen, if you've watched even the Olympics or any sports, particularly like skiers, or uh, snowboarders, if you watch them when they are focusing on the athlete before they go, you watch them and they move their shoulders and dip down and they go up and they go over and they're literally patterning their mind going over the entire course of what they're going to do before they do it.
• 26:13
  Cheryl: And the, the ones who win are the ones who do that.
• 26:17
  Cheryl: And this is what we're doing.
• 26:20
  Cheryl: What the goal of all this is, is have them.
• 26:23
  Cheryl: Walk through the patterns of up and down and the spins and the curves.
• 26:28
  Cheryl: before they get
• 26:29
  Christie: there That's a really good, equipping them, preparing them for circumstances that they'll come in contact with.
• 26:36
  Christie: And that's
• 26:36
  Ellen: why sometimes you want to, if you're able to, give your kids experiences outside of your home.
• 26:44
  Ellen: Have them serve, it's certain they serve together, where they can be around people that maybe have less than they do.
• 26:51
  Ellen: Maybe have some disabilities.
• 26:52
  Ellen: I mean, you know, our kids, we were always, you know, working somewhere together as a family, doing something.
• 27:00
  Ellen: And so they got exposed to people outside of their normal.
• 27:05
  Ellen: realm of people.
• 27:06
  Ellen: And that makes them wonder, Oh, how does that person do that?
• 27:10
  Ellen: They have, they're in a wheelchair.
• 27:11
  Ellen: Or how does that person, you know, they are living in a nursing home.
• 27:16
  Ellen: What does that mean when you're old?
• 27:17
  Ellen: You know, because my grandma just didn't have to live in a nursing home and things
• 27:21
  Cheryl: like that.
• 27:22
  Cheryl: Right.
• 27:22
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: I will tell y'all, my parents did none of this.
• 27:27
  Cheryl: Mine either.
• 27:27
  Cheryl: Particularly hypothetical.
• 27:30
  Cheryl: They never talked about anything hypothetical.
• 27:32
  Cheryl: They would give advice.
• 27:35
  Cheryl: But I don't remember the questions.
• 27:37
  Ellen: sometimes advice, I don't know about your parents, but sometimes advice feels like condemnation.
• 27:42
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Ellen: Because I was an idea kid and I always had good ideas in my head, but my parents would try to give me advice, but it felt like they weren't being supportive.
• 27:50
  Christie: Well, because it's after the fact.
• 27:52
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:53
  Christie: I feel like, well, what can I do now?
• 27:55
  Christie: I can't go back and change what I did.
• 27:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Cheryl: Well, listeners, what we're trying to do here is to pick up from the wisdom.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: of these doctors to help develop that, high level thinking, whatever age your kids are.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: So, Looking forward to next time when we'll dive into one of their other ideas.
• 28:15
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: Thank you.
• 28:17
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 28:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Cheryl: Sounds good..
• 28:18
  Cheryl: parents remember, hang in there.
• 28:21
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 28:31
  I hope you're feeling encouraged to realize that no matter their ages or your parenting history, developing your child's brain, even on its highest level, it's not a complicated formula, but in fact done out of some intentionality and awareness.
• 28:52
  As we've been talking about from the whole brain child.
• 28:56
  As we wrap up, parents, let's remember, it's the simple things, the everyday interactions, that weave this growth into our children's upstairs brains.
• 29:09
  So how do we make those moments count?
• 29:11
  I'd love to hear from you.
• 29:13
  What strategies have you found successful in nurturing your child's decision making skills or promoting empathy in their everyday experiences.
• 29:24
  Drop your thoughts in the comments or connect with us on social media.
• 29:28
  Let's keep the conversation going.
• 29:31
  So until next time remember By applying intentionality and fostering empathy and not just building that upstairs brain, but we're crafting a foundation for a future of flourishing for our children.
• 29:46
  But before you go, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss out with the parenting podcast.