Latest / International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better / Nuclear Underground, Treaties, and Truth: How Tests Work, Who Would Be Caught, and Why Resuming Is Folly — Part 2, Deep-Dive

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Nuclear Underground, Treaties, and Truth: How Tests Work, Who Would Be Caught, and Why Resuming Is Folly — Part 2, Deep-Dive · International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better

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  This incredibly awesome music to bring you some
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  incredibly awesome political talk on damn radio Hello,
• 0:08
  good evening.
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  Welcome.
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  I am samuel trapp.
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  This is international flavor You are on damn
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  radio Live from the lake ozark real estate
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  of the art studio With me Uh last
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  night we just to recap we were discussing
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  nuclear weapons and president trump's Statement that well,
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  we're just gonna start some more Nuclear weapons
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  testing.
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  Let's do that, which we pretty much quit
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  and what was it?
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  1992 I was on the nevada nuclear test
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  site during those years and was around for
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  the last nuclear tests That were conducted there
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  escorting my russian Counterparts whilst they verified our
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  nuclear testing I gave a preliminary discussion of
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  what that was last night and we're gonna
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  get into And last night we decided that
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  there's a lot of information to go through
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  and i'm going to go through it As
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  long as it takes might might finish tonight
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  might not but i'm not going to rush
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  through it because it is a topic that
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  I enjoy Talking about it's a topic that
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  I know a reasonable amount about and I
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  was directly involved in what went on out
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  at the nevada nuclear test site during the
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  waning years of nuclear testing programs last night
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  we covered some of the basics Uh, we
• 1:44
  had some good conversation on the telephone and
• 1:47
  that was pretty cool If you'd like to
• 1:49
  call in, please do 5 7 3 7
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  4 6 8 0 2 0 you can
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  Send in Emails if you like to live
• 1:59
  at damn radio dot com I actually even
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  read them sometimes or samuel t at international
• 2:06
  flavor dot com if you want to listen
• 2:09
  to last night's show go out to international
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  flavor dot com and Listen to it or
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  jr does an excellent job of putting all
• 2:18
  the shows out at library damn radio.com
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  forward slash Podcasts and you can listen to
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  everybody's prior shows should you feel the urge
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  and I I believe let's see we're gonna
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  continue on we're gonna start with treaties and
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  where the treaties are where we Stand in
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  the treaties, but before we get to that
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  there are a couple of things that are
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  really Pissed me off today things, you know
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  things that I I just can't stand.
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  Okay So whitaker, whatever his name is u
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  .s Ambassador ukraine or whatever isn't whatever they
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  call him these days went over there and
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  basically told zelensky It's time to uh to
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  uh Finalize this conflict that didn't go too
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  well He's not listening at all surprise surprise
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  that's not happening, um, but I watched You'll
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  never get this in news over here and
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  there's a lot Well, there's a lot of
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  people that have begun to discover rt news.
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  Okay in english Very similar to what the
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  u.s. Put out.
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  Um What do they call it?
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  Radio free europe or voice of america or
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  whatever that we have put out now You
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  could argue that a lot of it is
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  uh, um propaganda you Certainly need to look
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  at every side of the equation, but here
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  Is this there's a couple of stories in
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  there today that i'm going to share you
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  with you two of them have to do
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  specifically with nuclear testing and president trump's recent
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  thoughts on it and So whether you believe
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  it or not, I don't care you but
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  it's a different point of view and you
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  can hear the other side I don't think
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  there's anything to disagree with it's just regular
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  reporting frankly, I tend to believe what comes
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  out of Rt and al jazeera and other
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  places more than I believe the crap that
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  they spew over here um, you know and
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  and it reminds me of when I was
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  a a younger man and you could watch
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  the news and it wasn't so full of
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  twist and nonsense and Ours has gotten slightly
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  better recently truthfully, I mean, they're still vitriol
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  everywhere, but this is uh, Uh a little
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  bit different, but I wanted to share with
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  you And if you want to find this
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  look up rt.com forward slash russia forward
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  slash six two seven three oh one dash
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  ukrainian dash drones dash kill Dash civilians forward
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  slash and uh, you know You probably won't
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  get there.
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  But the title of the article on rt
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  Is ukrainian forces kill civilians with direct fpv
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  drone?
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  Hits and there are some pretty damn graphic
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  videos and so i'm going to read the
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  story to you Because it's really not that
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  long but all the videos are there this
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  Is disgusting?
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  Uh what they what they did to ukrainian
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  civilians ukrainian civilians Who attempted to reach russian
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  military positions?
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  while carrying white flags Were fatally struck in
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  direct fpv drone first person view drone attacks
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  by ukrainian forces according to russian media reports
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  the disturbing videos obtained by ria-novosti and
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  tass on monday show unarmed men two of
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  them walking along a dirt road outside the
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  village of Petropavlovka near kupyansk in harkiv harkov
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  region In the footage an fpv drone hovers
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  In front of the first man for several
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  seconds as he walks forward accompanied by his
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  dog The drone swoops for swoops down and
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  strikes him Directly in the torso as he
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  attempts to duck The man is killed instantly
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  and the dog is seen writhing in pain
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  The second man drops his belongings and slowly
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  approaches the scene making the sign of the
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  cross over the first victim's body Later in
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  the footage he is also struck by a
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  drone in the extended footage of the second
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  strike The second civilian is on his knees
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  praying At the time of the ukrainian drone
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  attack which killed him on the spot This
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  is disturbing i'm telling you.
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  I watched them both and I don't like
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  this stuff anyway The disturbing videos highlight hardships
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  civilians are facing while trying to flee the
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  war zone four-time ukrainian mp Turned russian
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  blogger guy named oleg.
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  Saryov has said Poor villagers and these guys
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  are obviously old and they're obviously civilians poor
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  villagers And the elderly have only one option
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  Cross the front lines like in the video
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  or wait it out in the basement Until
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  it rolls over their heads.
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  This carries the risk that the ukrainian military
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  Will execute them for having pro-russian sentiments.
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  Saryov wrote on his own telegram channel In
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  late october chief of the russian general staff
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  valery gerasimov reported to president putin that around
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  5,500 ukrainian servicemen were surrounded in krasnoyarsk
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  Which is known as pokrovsk in ukraine Another
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  5 000 troops were blocked in dimitrov, which
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  is myrnograd and in kupyansk ukraine's vladimir zelensky
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  Previously described the situation as difficult But now
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  he denies any encirclement at all and accuses
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  moscow of exaggerating its battlefield gains I follow
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  these every day the guy's full of crap
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  and he's lying Okay You can watch this
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  every day and see where they're going with
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  the videos all What do you call it?
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  Geo geolocated all of these videos last week
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  putin f in the surrounded places stated that
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  moscow Would halt offensive operations to allow ukrainian
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  and foreign journalists To visit the front lines
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  to see with their own eyes that the
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  ukrainian troops were trapped in these three towns
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  kiev, however Barred media workers from making the
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  trip the defense ministry accused kiev of deceiving
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  both the ukrainian public And the international community
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  about military setbacks Officials report that ukrainian soldiers
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  have attempted to approach russian positions with white
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  flags in recent days but their own People
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  are killing them and that's been going on
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  for three years You know you go surrender
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  if you go to surrender you're going to
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  be killed by your own people and uh,
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  you know, they don't You can't do that.
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  So you're supposed to either you you either
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  die in in Combat or you die trying
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  to surrender.
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  Um I don't know this needs to uh
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  be taken care of we're going to get
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  back to the nuclear story now But that
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  that story bothered me enough to want to
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  share it.
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  Um, let's talk about before we get to
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  the next parts of uh of my What
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  do you call it reporting from last night
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  We're going to continue on the nuclear testing
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  side and what it entails last night I
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  told you about how it works in the
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  underground nature the vertical versus the horizontal shafts
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  and how that all works and And what
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  we did and how long it took so
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  that The u.s. Energy secretary.
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  There's a story about him from the 2nd
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  of november.
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  Okay, just Uh, what was that sunday?
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  I guess that would have been and he
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  said Let's see nuclear weapons tests recently ordered
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  by u.s President donald trump will not
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  involve actual nuclear weapons said energy secretary chris,
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  right?
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  On fox news sunday briefing right described the
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  trials as part of a modernization program involving
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  Sophisticated systems the u.s has been developing
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  to replace Aging components of its nuclear arsenal
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  I think the tests we're talking about right
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  now are system tests These are not nuclear
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  explosions.
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  These are what we call non-critical explosions
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  adding That various components will be tested to
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  ensure that they deliver the appropriate geometry and
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  set up the nuclear explosion When he was
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  asked if residents near the nuclear test site
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  in the nevada desert should expect to see
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  a mushroom cloud Anytime soon he replied.
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  No worries about that.
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  Now.
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  That's absolutely true There haven't been mushroom clouds
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  there since the 50s.
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  There was one venting incident, which I think
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  was in 72 But I don't remember the
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  date.
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  I talked about it last night.
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  We're not going to cover that again, but
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  Above ground testing ended in the 50s, okay
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  Uh trump, well, maybe early 62 something like
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  that after the cuban missile crisis trump instructed
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  the pentagon last week To start testing our
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  nuclear weapons on an equal basis with russia
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  and china Russia and china aren't conducting nuclear
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  tests.
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  So that's a problem Vice president jd vance
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  said it is important to ensure that the
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  nuclear arsenal we have Actually functions properly now
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  that I might support but there are ways
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  to do that We have all of the
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  data from every test that ever happened and
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  if you reviewed it now Again, you could
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  probably gain 10 times more off of off
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  of the information with today's technology.
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  Does that make sense?
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  um Let's see the u.s. Stopped conducting
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  nuclear testing in 1992 under a congress mandated
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  Moratorium and the rest of the world followed
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  suit except for the examples I gave last
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  night Uh, washington post said on thursday that
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  resuming nuclear tests would take years and hundreds
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  of millions of dollars Sounds like they were
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  listening to me last night The u.s.
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  Carried out its last nuclear detonation more than
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  three decades ago at the nevada test site
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  Which now relies on computer simulations instead of
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  live Explosions and we're going to follow that
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  a little bit more Uh, let's see here
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  and today's news, uh, dmitry peskov, uh was
• 13:23
  was uh quoted and he was talking kremlin
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  expects trump to Clarify what he means about
• 13:29
  his nuclear test claims And here's what you
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  get from the russian side the kremlin has
• 13:35
  called for a clarification from the washington following
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  Recent remarks by donald trump who claimed the
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  that russia and china Are secretly conducting nuclear
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  weapons tests as i'm going to show you
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  tonight or tell you about tonight.
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  That's impossible Because we would know instantly if
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  they did so there are no secret nuclear
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  weapons testings Going on or we would know.
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  All right, and i'll explain that as we
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  go through russian president vladimir putin His spokesman
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  dmitry peskov told rt tuesday that neither country
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  has resumed such activities And that both remain
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  committed to existing international agreements, which we're going
• 14:20
  to cover first, right?
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  We probably still need To receive clarifications from
• 14:27
  the american side peskov said Neither russia nor
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  china has resumed nuclear tests Moreover, both moscow
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  and beijing insist that all countries remain committed
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  to their obligations under the Comprehensive nuclear test
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  ban treaty.
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  I was part of the threshold test ban
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  treaty, which limited it to 150 kiloton Peskov
• 14:50
  made the remarks days after trump claimed in
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  a televised interview that the u.s. Was
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  trump just Pulls crap out of his rear
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  end and here's an example Okay that the
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  u.s. Was the only country that doesn't
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  test nuclear weapons And he suggested that both
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  moscow and beijing had resumed such activities He
• 15:13
  ordered the pentagon last week to begin preparations
• 15:16
  to restart nuclear testing What the american head
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  What the head of the american state means
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  we simply cannot say right now Unfortunately the
• 15:27
  kremlin spokesman added The u.s Last carried
• 15:32
  out full scare nuclear test in 92 when
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  the moratorium in place has been in place
• 15:37
  since then Energy secretary chris wright clarified sunday
• 15:41
  that the tests ordered by trump will not
• 15:43
  involve detonations Describing them as non-critical trials
• 15:47
  despite trump's assertions russia's most recent nuclear related
• 15:51
  tests including the launch of the Nuclear powered
• 15:56
  cruise missile and the poseidon underwater drones did
• 15:59
  not involve nuclear explosions Putin has previously indicated
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  that russia would only consider resuming testing if
• 16:06
  other nuclear powers abandon the moratorium China's foreign
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  ministry denied conducting nuclear tests also And has
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  urged the u.s. To uphold its own
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  obligations under the global test ban framework while
• 16:24
  trump claimed The goal of renewed testing is
• 16:27
  to push for global denuclearization He also boasted
• 16:32
  that the u.s. Possesses enough nuclear weapons
• 16:34
  to blow up the world 150 times now,
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  that's what we were attempting to get rid
• 16:40
  of in my youth And now well, that's
• 16:44
  what the hell let's get back into it,
• 16:46
  right?
• 16:47
  uh, anyway nonsensical nonsense as usual in the
• 16:52
  world of politics, especially in Washington Last night
• 16:59
  I covered for you how underground testing actually
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  works Uh tonight we're going to start with
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  treaties what they say and where we go
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  Hopefully and we're going to take our time
• 17:10
  going through it.
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  Somebody wants to call and ask questions I'd
• 17:13
  be happy to go through as much as
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  I can say on it Um, we're going
• 17:17
  to talk about our u.s. Record in
• 17:19
  the nevada story What happened in nevada?
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  Then we're going to go on into um,
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  Russia, which is the next largest Uh person
• 17:31
  group well soviet union that conducted Tests in
• 17:35
  semipalatinsk and novaya zemla and we're going to
• 17:38
  go through all of that and then we're
• 17:40
  going to go into other also wicks also
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  ran france uk china india and pakistan israel
• 17:48
  and the drp dprk We're going to go
• 17:51
  through and see where where they did later.
• 17:54
  We're going to talk about what it would
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  take To restart nuclear testing, right?
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  and uh, uh, and and then we're gonna
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  conclude with a little bit of facts and
• 18:07
  some of the things that uh, That uh
• 18:09
  come from it if we get finished today
• 18:11
  Great, but i'm not gonna.
• 18:13
  Um I'm not gonna kill myself to make
• 18:16
  sure I get there if we don't finish
• 18:18
  tonight.
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  Well There you have it.
• 18:20
  We won't so how do you like them
• 18:24
  apples?
• 18:25
  Um Don't you remember that from goodwill hunting?
• 18:30
  Do you like apples?
• 18:32
  The guy says yeah, he goes.
• 18:35
  I got a number.
• 18:36
  How do you like them apples?
• 18:38
  Remember that?
• 18:40
  I digress talking about apples.
• 18:42
  So we're going to start with treaties and
• 18:45
  uh Let's talk about what the treaties say
• 18:50
  And where we sit in those treaty eras
• 18:55
  now if you remember last night, I talked
• 18:57
  a little bit in the beginning about how
• 18:59
  the um 1962 cuban missile crisis or was
• 19:05
  it 63?
• 19:05
  Oh, I think it was 62 cuban missile
• 19:08
  crisis where uh, you know, we had to
• 19:12
  turn back and create some kind of a
• 19:14
  deal to um, so the cubans didn't get
• 19:17
  missiles in their in their area and so
• 19:20
  in 1963 1963 there had been plenty of
• 19:27
  above ground testing plenty of in the ocean
• 19:30
  testing and things like that, but after the
• 19:34
  cuban missile crisis and everybody had these uh,
• 19:38
  Nuclear fallout shelters in their backyard and whatnot
• 19:42
  um in 1963 There they entered a limited
• 19:47
  or partial test ban treaty Name called the
• 19:52
  ltbt What it bans and what it permitted,
• 19:57
  okay?
• 19:58
  After the cuban missile crisis scared the daylights
• 20:01
  out everybody Washington, moscow and london cut the
• 20:04
  first big deal.
• 20:05
  They banned all tests in the atmosphere outer
• 20:08
  space and underwater No more mushroom cloud postcards.
• 20:12
  No more strontium 90 Underground tests remain legal
• 20:17
  if you pop a device underground radioactive radioactive
• 20:21
  debris Crosses the border you have violated the
• 20:25
  treaty that there should be no venting beyond
• 20:28
  your own territory That clause is the hinge
• 20:32
  that uh, you know Swung the door closed
• 20:36
  on you know, three decades of u.s.
• 20:39
  Underground testing, okay At the nevada site this
• 20:44
  flipped our script Atmospheric testing which we had
• 20:48
  done plenty of was over And underground testing
• 20:53
  was now the default the nnss which was
• 20:57
  then called nts nuclear test site stated, you
• 21:01
  know bluntly 100 Atmospheric tests were conducted through
• 21:07
  july of 1962 The limited threshold the limited
• 21:14
  test ban treaties was signed on august 5th
• 21:17
  of 1963 which started the age of underground
• 21:21
  testing and so You know, it didn't end
• 21:26
  testing, you know put a Put a little
• 21:29
  bit of a lid on it and said
• 21:30
  keep your mess inside your own borders, okay?
• 21:34
  later in 1974 about 11 years later The
• 21:40
  treaty that uh, I was involved in the
• 21:43
  threshold test ban treaty ttbt and the 1976
• 21:48
  peaceful nuclear explosions treaty pnet Put a 150
• 21:56
  kiloton cap.
• 21:57
  Okay on how much you could blow up
• 22:00
  even underground, okay The us and ussr narrowed
• 22:05
  the underground Limits no underground nuclear tests above
• 22:10
  150 kilotons after march 31st of 1976 that
• 22:16
  is the basics of the ttbt negotiators carved
• 22:20
  out the you know category of peaceful nuclear
• 22:25
  explosions which are Earth moving.
• 22:29
  I told you a tiny bit about those
• 22:30
  last night canal digging fantasies that You know
• 22:35
  both sides were attempting to figure out in
• 22:38
  the 60s and 70s and they set 150
• 22:42
  kilotons and 1.5 megatons total for group
• 22:47
  explosions plus verification rules These two treaties sat
• 22:52
  in limbo for years While they hammered out.
• 22:56
  How do we prove this?
• 22:59
  Okay in 1988 This is when I got
• 23:04
  involved, right?
• 23:05
  There was a joint verification experiment and both
• 23:11
  of these um Treaties the p net and
• 23:16
  the ttbt entered into force in december of
• 23:19
  1990 The 150 kiloton ceiling and the verification
• 23:24
  package have been legally in effect ever since
• 23:28
  What did it mean in practice?
• 23:30
  Right us and soviet test designers Had to
• 23:34
  you know figure out how to live below
• 23:36
  the 150 kiloton with real world uncertainties, you
• 23:40
  know in the verification game You know, they
• 23:42
  each got the ability to go to each
• 23:44
  other's sites and watch while the other conducted
• 23:46
  their tests They had data exchanges calibration shots
• 23:50
  on-site access and specific circumstances All the
• 23:54
  nitty-gritty that I was involved in that
• 23:56
  you keep but you know the threshold honest,
• 23:59
  right?
• 24:00
  The declassified records, you know, what's really funny
• 24:02
  is I still can't get a copy of
• 24:04
  uh, all the radiation I was exposed to
• 24:08
  at the nevada nuclear test site.
• 24:11
  I really want it and uh because Frankly,
• 24:15
  you know, I got issues But anyway, um
• 24:20
  The declassified records showed the back and forth
• 24:23
  in painful detail the the discussions that we
• 24:26
  would have out there Were just amazing the
• 24:29
  little arguments that we would we would get
• 24:31
  into about whether you were able to see
• 24:33
  something I don't know if any anybody remembers
• 24:36
  it, but when I when I was out
• 24:37
  there, so typically there were usually 20 26
• 24:42
  russian scientists and hangers on right that that
• 24:49
  flew over and stayed for nine months a
• 24:51
  year and They were allowed to verify what
• 24:54
  we were doing And I had some funny
• 24:57
  stories I may have told them before but
• 24:59
  what I'm one of What I always tell
• 25:02
  this story because the guy was such a
• 25:04
  nut and There was a little tiny guy
• 25:09
  and so In those days the two interpreters
• 25:13
  there was well, we usually had two interpreters
• 25:15
  on the american side and then we'd have
• 25:18
  Um, there was only one on the russian
• 25:21
  side There was one guy that came and
• 25:23
  stayed the whole time and his name was
• 25:25
  valery kuzmin and he was also um, according
• 25:29
  to the discussions that we had had he
• 25:31
  was a professor at moscow state university, too
• 25:34
  And at one point he he uh told
• 25:36
  me that he was a colonel um And
• 25:40
  you know, he didn't go much further than
• 25:42
  that whether it was military kgb Who knows
• 25:45
  doesn't matter.
• 25:45
  I don't care and they didn't believe that.
• 25:48
  I was a lowly staff sergeant there.
• 25:50
  He would always Uh-huh.
• 25:52
  Yeah, right like you're you're just some sergeant,
• 25:56
  you know out here hanging out with everybody
• 25:58
  here and and we had a a colonel
• 26:01
  or a general on our side who was
• 26:03
  going to be um Conducting all the discussions
• 26:08
  along with all the scientists department energy people
• 26:12
  um There were several companies that were involved
• 26:16
  in it out there and I can't remember
• 26:18
  names Um, they'll probably come up as we
• 26:19
  read through this because there were always tons
• 26:22
  of them out there But they were all
• 26:23
  subject to the department energy And so they
• 26:26
  would do I was involved in tests that
• 26:29
  were vertical and then tests that were horizontal
• 26:32
  the horizontal ones went under under mountains and
• 26:35
  they would blow them up and they'd collapse,
• 26:38
  but the whole point was to Well, there
• 26:41
  were several points one was to we called
• 26:43
  it the hydrodynamic yield measurement method so you
• 26:46
  could figure out from watching the waves of
• 26:50
  Uh the shock and all the the the
• 26:53
  signals that came up those cables I told
• 26:55
  you about last night you could measure the
• 26:57
  force of the bomb that you put in
• 26:59
  in a certain amount of uh, whatever the
• 27:03
  um Um The environment was and if you
• 27:08
  know, you put it in granite, here's what
• 27:10
  happens you put it under the ground in
• 27:12
  limestone Here's what it is.
• 27:13
  You put it under lava, which is plenty
• 27:16
  of what's going on there in in Nevada
• 27:19
  nuclear test site and here's what you get,
• 27:21
  you know And so all kinds of this
• 27:23
  stuff was going on and they got to
• 27:25
  to verify all of it well And there
• 27:27
  were tons of scientists and then there were
• 27:28
  a couple of people like the colonel and
• 27:30
  or the the supervisor of whoever it was
• 27:32
  We knew who it was whichever general was
• 27:35
  in charge from the russian side or the
• 27:38
  american side Of course, everybody knew who they
• 27:40
  were everybody knew who the interpreters were Most
• 27:43
  people knew who the scientists were we had
• 27:45
  a much smaller team although the uh private
• 27:48
  contractor types worked with the russian types fairly
• 27:52
  well, and sometimes we had to um, You
• 27:55
  know interpret for them as well it was
• 27:57
  it was I don't want to say that
• 27:59
  I didn't do didn't do Didn't do much.
• 28:01
  I mean I found that job to be
• 28:03
  relatively easy.
• 28:04
  It was just uh, you know Speak russian
• 28:06
  all day and that was that and um,
• 28:08
  it was a lot of fun And anyway,
• 28:10
  but there was one particular guy a little
• 28:13
  little guy named.
• 28:14
  Mr Dikov and dekev basically, I mean if
• 28:17
  you translate it means wild man And the
• 28:20
  guy's name is uh dekev or wildman.
• 28:22
  However, you want to say it but uh,
• 28:24
  mr.
• 28:24
  Dikov was I don't know five foot tall
• 28:28
  Maybe five foot two.
• 28:29
  He was a tiny little guy and um
• 28:32
  It was funny as hell he'd come out
• 28:35
  there and he always wore like a a
• 28:37
  white shirt or something And uh short sleeves.
• 28:41
  It was generally pretty hot out there And
• 28:43
  he would run around and ask questions, you
• 28:46
  know, and all he did was bounce around
• 28:48
  to other places and uh, And he would
• 28:50
  uh, he came up to me And uh
• 28:53
  valeri kuzmin and we're sitting there talking just
• 28:55
  you know shooting the shit well pardon my
• 28:58
  french well we were watching the the scientists
• 29:02
  and engineers running around and uh, he came
• 29:05
  up to me and he goes Sam uh
• 29:10
  And he's wearing this tiny little tie.
• 29:12
  He's wearing a clip-on tie that like
• 29:14
  a little kid would wear Um, it couldn't
• 29:16
  have been more than six inches long and
• 29:18
  he's got this thing Uh clipped on his
• 29:20
  neck and I was like, oh, it's very
• 29:21
  nice tie.
• 29:22
  Mr. Dikov and uh, I was I was
• 29:26
  like what the hell is this guy doing?
• 29:29
  And he's wearing this tiny little tie and
• 29:31
  he goes Um, and it went down about
• 29:34
  his chair, you know the top of his
• 29:35
  chest and that's it This tiny little kid's
• 29:37
  tie was hanging and I was like, that's
• 29:39
  a great tie you got there and he
• 29:40
  goes.
• 29:40
  Yeah He goes we we picked this up
• 29:43
  at the you know in las vegas the
• 29:45
  other day.
• 29:45
  He goes uh This tie is great He
• 29:50
  said this tie is fantastic Look, sam it
• 29:53
  hooks onto my shirt, you know with this
• 29:56
  little hook up on top.
• 29:57
  He said a clip-on tie He didn't
• 30:00
  have to tie it or nothing.
• 30:01
  He just clipped it on Anyway, that was
• 30:03
  a stupid part of the story, but we
• 30:05
  had a lot of fun messing with that
• 30:07
  guy He was a it was very odd
• 30:09
  and I got more stories about him, too
• 30:12
  But that's not the point of tonight's show
• 30:13
  on this nuclear testing stuff.
• 30:15
  He uh The verification part here's where it
• 30:19
  comes in and and the the scientists were
• 30:22
  verifying the real stuff that were going But
• 30:24
  guys from the kgb like this guy Um,
• 30:28
  and he was a kgb Goon or a
• 30:31
  party apparatchik and he got to come over
• 30:33
  and do he was a very nice guy
• 30:35
  I don't have anything, you know a negative
• 30:37
  about him.
• 30:38
  I thought he was hilarious and he um
• 30:41
  He would come up and he'd you know,
• 30:43
  see a building in the distance or a
• 30:45
  huge crane somewhere and he'd go He'd say
• 30:49
  sam How tall is that tower?
• 30:52
  And I'd say well, I don't know Looks
• 30:54
  like it's about 600 feet and he'd go
• 30:57
  is it I was like, I don't know
• 31:00
  Do you want me to find out and
• 31:02
  he'd say can you I was like sure
• 31:04
  So i'd walk over to somebody and go
• 31:06
  how tall is that tower and the guy
• 31:08
  go.
• 31:08
  I don't know Looks like 600 feet or
• 31:12
  500 or whatever.
• 31:14
  I was like, I don't know I said
• 31:15
  the guy wants to know how tall the
• 31:17
  tower is.
• 31:17
  Is he allowed to know he goes?
• 31:18
  I don't care He said he goes i'll
• 31:20
  see if I can find out for him
• 31:22
  Then he come back and tell him how
• 31:24
  tall the tower was or you'd see some
• 31:26
  huge crane off on the street Can you
• 31:28
  tell me the specifications of the crane and
• 31:30
  we weren't hiding a damn thing, you know
• 31:32
  Uh, the scientists might have been but if
• 31:34
  you if you're out there clearly you can
• 31:37
  see what's going on Anyway, it was pretty
• 31:39
  hilarious.
• 31:40
  But the verification of the treaty was the
• 31:43
  important part and the whole time We were
• 31:46
  trying to build Relationships with these guys at
• 31:49
  least I was and we would have discussions
• 31:51
  at the on-site inspection agency We would
• 31:53
  talk about these things what happened you'd always
• 31:56
  get debriefed You'd always be talking to people
• 31:58
  And they'd say what's going on here and
• 32:01
  and frankly the around this time Remember the
• 32:05
  soviet union's collapsed by now and there's uh,
• 32:08
  the walls come down and we're we're we're
• 32:10
  trying to uh, uh, Allegedly start to help
• 32:13
  these guys and make them our friends.
• 32:15
  And so Uh, there was we were they
• 32:18
  were excited.
• 32:19
  We were excited There was plenty of reason
• 32:21
  to be positive about all of this, you
• 32:23
  know, geez all this all this nonsense that's
• 32:26
  been going on since world war ii is
• 32:28
  finally ending but Nope Didn't go that way
• 32:33
  did it here we are fast forward 35
• 32:36
  30 years later And we're in the same
• 32:39
  old crap that we were back then in
• 32:41
  fact, probably worse, but it all started with
• 32:44
  these uh, ttbt and p net treaties that
• 32:47
  we got to work on and that We
• 32:50
  took the wild west of underground testing and
• 32:53
  put you know, a regulator on a governor
• 32:55
  on the engine, you know 150 kilotons period
• 32:58
  so in 1996 Is when this came up
• 33:02
  now?
• 33:02
  I had left active duty in 1995 and
• 33:06
  uh, I think in 96 I was in
• 33:08
  law school by that time and uh, um
• 33:12
  in 1995 they signed something that called that
• 33:16
  is All the parties.
• 33:18
  This is the big one in 1996 came
• 33:21
  about the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty ctbt
• 33:26
  the all means all Ban that really isn't
• 33:30
  in force because not everybody's ratified, but they
• 33:33
  ban all nuclear explosions Anywhere underground underwater in
• 33:39
  the air in space Military or peaceful it
• 33:43
  builds a verification Machine, it's called the comprehensive
• 33:48
  nuclear test ban treaty Organization ctbto gotta have
• 33:54
  your acronyms, right?
• 33:55
  It has a preparatory commission in vienna and
• 33:59
  a global international monitoring system ims whose data
• 34:06
  are processed at the international data center Idc
• 34:13
  So it's legally it's clean.
• 34:15
  Technically.
• 34:15
  It's serious, but the catch is The the
• 34:19
  treaty only enters into force when all 144
• 34:24
  Named states sign and ratify and we're not
• 34:29
  there.
• 34:30
  We're not even close Okay in in the
• 34:34
  status of 2025.
• 34:35
  Here it is the United States and China
• 34:38
  have both signed ctbt, but neither has ratified
• 34:45
  India Pakistan and North Korea never even signed
• 34:49
  it.
• 34:50
  Okay Israel Egypt Iran and Russia signed it,
• 34:57
  but they haven't ratified it and well Russia
• 35:02
  Had ratified but Russia revoked its ratification in
• 35:07
  November 2023 Saying it would mirror US moratorium
• 35:13
  posture So these are the ones that matter.
• 35:16
  I mean if you want to What the
• 35:19
  Congressional Research Service version, you know as of
• 35:23
  2025 187 countries have signed 178 have ratified
• 35:29
  but of the required 44 annex to states
• 35:33
  only 37 have ratified the hang-ups are
• 35:36
  the same usual suspect and the Senate sent
• 35:39
  our Senate famously rejected comprehensive test ban treaty
• 35:44
  in 1999 48 51 to 1 and that
• 35:50
  rejection, you know still shapes to politics of
• 35:53
  where we are today So people say the
• 35:55
  treaty is dead, but it's really it's undead
• 35:58
  It's a zombie zombie treaty, right?
• 36:01
  It's not legally alive, but it's not really
• 36:04
  buried Meanwhile, all the sensors are on you
• 36:08
  know, people can tell where where if you
• 36:11
  do a nuclear explosion That's how we knew
• 36:13
  that North Korea had done it.
• 36:16
  That's how they know that what they've done
• 36:18
  with Iran so this IMS the What's
• 36:28
  the where we're we're we're we're international monitoring
• 36:31
  system, right is It's like a microphone around
• 36:37
  the planet.
• 36:37
  Okay, there are 337 facilities Vladimir Putin talked
• 36:42
  about this the other day I told you
• 36:44
  that I was watching the Solovyov show because
• 36:46
  there were two things that happened one He
• 36:48
  spoke to a nuclear scientist Russian guy for
• 36:51
  about a half an hour and I hadn't
• 36:53
  had the chance to finish watching that last
• 36:56
  night, but I watched it last night laying
• 36:57
  in bed and with this Russian guy that
• 37:02
  was talking about all the testing and he
• 37:04
  was talking about some of these 337 facilities
• 37:07
  and Solovyov was having a discussion with I
• 37:11
  forget the guy's name.
• 37:12
  I wrote it down, but you've Guinea something
• 37:14
  or other and He gave an interesting take
• 37:18
  on it and they were talking about this
• 37:20
  337 facilities and I paid attention because I
• 37:23
  had already done the research on this and
• 37:25
  was talking to it and Here's how it
• 37:28
  goes the international monitoring system is the is
• 37:30
  like a Success story from the Western side
• 37:34
  and it really is a success story for
• 37:36
  the whole world with a catch.
• 37:38
  Okay When it's complete there are three hundred
• 37:41
  and thirty seven facilities 321 stations plus 16
• 37:49
  radio nuclide labs They're spread around 89 countries
• 37:56
  they use seismic Infrasound Hydroacoustic and radio nuclide
• 38:02
  tech to catch anything that goes boom You
• 38:06
  know any any explosion they know about it.
• 38:08
  The network is approximately 90% complete and
• 38:14
  it is detected every declared DPRK test and
• 38:19
  The the data here's the catch that people
• 38:22
  don't like right the data stream to the
• 38:26
  IDC in where where is the IDC the
• 38:33
  international data center, where does it go?
• 38:38
  Vienna Virginia in near real time that is
• 38:43
  why even without entry into force cheating is
• 38:47
  hard, but the 337 facilities feed Vienna Nobody
• 38:53
  else the guy's name.
• 38:54
  I was right it's a you've Kenny Boozinski
• 38:57
  and but it's accurate on the count and
• 38:59
  the Vienna hub and it's consistent with comprehensive
• 39:04
  comprehensive test ban treaty offices own numbers He
• 39:09
  said that Russia has dozens I think he's
• 39:13
  gave the number at 42 IMS facilities in
• 39:18
  Russia and the feed goes straight to Vienna,
• 39:21
  so they know if somebody is is Cheating
• 39:24
  and so we would know Vienna would know
• 39:27
  and Trump would know if somebody was conducting
• 39:30
  a nuclear Test underground or otherwise Anywhere in
• 39:35
  the world we would know immediately okay, and
• 39:37
  all of that is correct So you can
• 39:40
  bury the bomb you can't bury a seismograph
• 39:43
  I mean you can but you can't bury
• 39:45
  the fact that the tech of the seismograph
• 39:47
  transmits everything to Vienna Right so I don't
• 39:52
  know that's that's the infrasound arrays to hydrophones
• 39:56
  all of that in the radio nuclide samplers
• 39:58
  all feed Vienna And so the tech is
• 40:02
  all come in the u.s..
• 40:03
  And they don't necessarily share it with everybody
• 40:06
  else Okay, so Where does the u.s.?
• 40:11
  Well, let's not talk just about the u
• 40:14
  .s..
• 40:14
  Let's talk about everything.
• 40:16
  What's the state of the law today right
• 40:18
  the limited test ban treaty?
• 40:20
  1963 is in force no atmospheric space or
• 40:24
  underwater so that one is still a legal
• 40:28
  and literal it's there the threshold test ban
• 40:33
  treaty and the Peaceful nuclear explosion tests from
• 40:37
  74 and 76 are also in force since
• 40:40
  1990 capped at 150 kilotons TTBT is the
• 40:44
  one that I participated in okay?
• 40:47
  But comprehensive test ban treaty bans all nuclear
• 40:51
  explosions underground above-ground Anywhere, but it really
• 40:56
  isn't in force because a lot of the
• 40:58
  states haven't ratified it and India Pakistan and
• 41:02
  DR DPR case case they haven't even signed
• 41:06
  but the the moratorium norm Everybody is following
• 41:12
  for the most part Let's see North Korea
• 41:17
  is the last to do it, and I
• 41:20
  believe it was oh eight and Allegedly Iran
• 41:24
  had had they had suspected of doing it
• 41:27
  a couple of years ago And but I'm
• 41:29
  not so positive at that, but the norm
• 41:31
  is Everybody is there's a moratorium on all
• 41:35
  of it And if if Iran really had
• 41:38
  done one they were talking about it, but
• 41:41
  They would know if a nuclear explosion had
• 41:45
  been conducted We the u.s. We have
• 41:49
  been on a unilateral testing moratorium of our
• 41:53
  own with Russia actually since well Russia followed
• 41:57
  suit and so did China in 1992 and
• 42:01
  We keep track of our stockpile, but the
• 42:03
  comprehensive test ban treaty was signed, but never
• 42:06
  ratified and rejected in 1999 Both parties keep
• 42:12
  reaffirming the moratorium, but they keep the Nevada
• 42:15
  test site on caretaker status you know hoping
• 42:19
  to You know someday get the funnel all
• 42:22
  that money back out there to all their
• 42:26
  private colleagues, right Um Russia of course revoked
• 42:31
  CTBT that it was ratified ratification Which they
• 42:36
  had done some time ago?
• 42:38
  They revoked it in 2023, but it will
• 42:40
  still mirror at first and even recently Moscow
• 42:44
  peskov Putin have all said that we won't
• 42:49
  do anything unless Washington moves first, okay Um
• 42:54
  could anybody sneak a test the short answer
• 42:58
  is no It's designed to catch it.
• 43:01
  You know the CTB to's chief publicly warns
• 43:05
  that any renewed Explosive tests would harm global
• 43:09
  security so you know That's his Response to
• 43:15
  a presidential directive in Washington to prepare for
• 43:19
  resuming testing So whatever anybody thinks about the
• 43:22
  politics the international monitoring and diplomatic blowback Really
• 43:26
  aren't theoretical CTBT is not in force, but
• 43:30
  the tripwire is if you like the match,
• 43:33
  and you know Half the planet censors file
• 43:36
  a report, but for your press secretary can
• 43:38
  say no comment Everybody knows that you've broken
• 43:41
  it right so What are the common confusions
• 43:47
  Israel's outside of everything a lot of people
• 43:50
  like to say Israel never participates And they
• 43:52
  they you know they've been very quiet about
• 43:55
  it.
• 43:55
  You know nobody talks much about it But
• 43:57
  Israel did sign the comprehensive test ban treaty,
• 44:01
  but they haven't ratified it India Pakistan North
• 44:05
  Korea didn't even sign them if the CTBT
• 44:10
  Isn't in force nobody Nothing stops anyone from
• 44:15
  From Conducting nuclear testing that's not right Limited
• 44:22
  test ban and threshold test ban and the
• 44:25
  peaceful nuclear explosions are all in force CTBT
• 44:28
  creates a political norm to detect and disclose
• 44:31
  and Everybody is doing still the right thing,
• 44:35
  but the zombies you know the undead treaty
• 44:38
  Are still hanging around there?
• 44:42
  Could you test small and hide it?
• 44:46
  But well I don't think so because the
• 44:49
  smaller you go the less weapons useful data
• 44:51
  you get from an explosion anyway The larger
• 44:54
  you go the easy it is to detect.
• 44:56
  That's why the US have thrown resources at
• 44:59
  non-explosive stockpiles Instead of begging geology you
• 45:03
  know to let them test some huge once
• 45:05
  again, so I don't know Good Stuff where
• 45:11
  where does that leave us it leaves us
• 45:14
  heading into the next segment which is?
• 45:18
  America's history And what is the record and
• 45:23
  the Nevada story right let's?
• 45:26
  Set the scene first, and I told you
• 45:28
  a little bit about it because I was
• 45:29
  there and you're 65 miles northwest of Las
• 45:33
  Vegas it's 13 hundred and sixty square miles
• 45:39
  It's the Nevada nuclear test site today.
• 45:42
  It's called the Nevada National Security site area
• 45:46
  51 is out there It's an America's nuclear
• 45:51
  workshop from 1951 until 1992 928 Nuclear
• 46:00
  explosive tests in total were created with 100
• 46:06
  in the atmosphere and 828 underground The you
• 46:14
  know the government still post these you know
• 46:17
  with with with you know pride that we
• 46:20
  have done this I thought that it was
• 46:21
  nuts the last US nuclear explosion was on
• 46:27
  September 23rd of 1992 After that there was
• 46:31
  a self-imposed moratorium the desert didn't you
• 46:36
  know?
• 46:37
  Have another nuclear Explosion since so That was
• 46:44
  the end, but let's rewind to the 1950s
• 46:48
  When America was learning by doing sometimes learning
• 46:52
  the hard way Above ground in those early
• 46:55
  years you saw the mushroom clouds Climbing over
• 46:59
  Frenchman flat and yucca flat we had to
• 47:02
  watch the movies To you know the history
• 47:06
  we had to we had like two days
• 47:08
  of history stuff.
• 47:09
  We got in there the idea You saw
• 47:13
  soldiers real people in real trenches brought in
• 47:17
  for exercises And to desert rock the idea
• 47:22
  was to train for the nuclear battlefield To
• 47:27
  observe and to maneuver through the dust that
• 47:30
  it created at upshot knothole in 1953 more
• 47:37
  than 21,000 soldiers took part in desert
• 47:43
  rock 5 Including for the famous atomic cannon
• 47:48
  shot Greybull that is not an urban legend.
• 47:52
  It's a historic record you still can find
• 47:57
  the videos of this the old reels on
• 48:00
  old YouTube channels and We had to watch
• 48:03
  those And I couldn't believe it these people
• 48:08
  are out there with sunglasses on in foxholes
• 48:12
  and Trenches 21,000 soldiers underneath a nuclear
• 48:20
  explosion so they could train and they all
• 48:24
  got irradiated and No doubt 98% of
• 48:31
  them are dead by now if not all
• 48:33
  of them, but there was plenty of issues
• 48:37
  from that I I watched those images They're
• 48:41
  all black and white films troops crouched in
• 48:44
  foxholes then standing up under the cloud These
• 48:48
  are not propaganda their primary source history the
• 48:53
  own documentation on desert rock There are headcounts
• 48:58
  units distance from ground zero a dry Inventory
• 49:03
  of how to march men through a nuclear
• 49:06
  detonation There's nothing romantic about it, it's you
• 49:11
  know radioactive Logistics, it's nonsense, but by the
• 49:17
  time the 1963 is limited test-ban treaty
• 49:20
  came about Atmospheric shots were over.
• 49:23
  Okay.
• 49:24
  They could go underground so the program went
• 49:26
  underground Arguably safer, okay, I didn't know that.
• 49:30
  I'm not so positive It was so safe
• 49:33
  when I was out there either we had
• 49:35
  to wear a dosimeter every every day You
• 49:37
  had this thing clipped on your on your
• 49:39
  uniform or your clothes.
• 49:41
  We didn't wear uniforms out there.
• 49:42
  We wore you know, I don't know Dockers
• 49:46
  and pullovers, but You had to wear your
• 49:50
  dosimeter everywhere you went and every month They
• 49:53
  would take your dosimeter badge and they would
• 49:56
  replace the dosimeter So you had your badge
• 49:59
  on it which showed where you could go
• 50:01
  on the facility, you know You had a
• 50:04
  TS for top-secret and you had s
• 50:06
  for secret there was a Q badge for
• 50:08
  the guys who were who were really up
• 50:10
  there and then Or could go to every
• 50:13
  single site and that mine was TS and
• 50:17
  I got to go to all the cool
• 50:18
  places, but not every single one of them,
• 50:21
  right?
• 50:22
  But but on the it would all have
• 50:24
  always had this little This little chip on
• 50:28
  there that was a dosimeter and they would
• 50:30
  take those things and I'd say no When
• 50:32
  do I get the readings you can't have
• 50:34
  them?
• 50:35
  What?
• 50:37
  You're not allowed.
• 50:38
  You don't get you don't get your dosimeter.
• 50:41
  That doesn't happen You're you you you're dosimeter.
• 50:44
  You're not allowed to look at it.
• 50:45
  The only people that can look at the
• 50:47
  dosimeter are I don't know what other people
• 50:50
  so I don't know how irradiated I was
• 50:52
  and it'd be they said well Allegedly, you're
• 50:56
  allowed to file a Freedom of Information Act
• 50:58
  and get your dosimeters.
• 51:00
  Maybe I should do that as part of
• 51:02
  the show We'll figure out how I can
• 51:04
  get from the Department of Energy or from
• 51:06
  the Pentagon or whoever's got it get my
• 51:09
  Radiation studies wouldn't that be entertaining?
• 51:11
  Maybe I'll try to figure that out.
• 51:13
  I'll see if I can do a I'll
• 51:17
  do some research on it.
• 51:18
  Hopefully report that to you tomorrow night where
• 51:20
  we go from here But by 1963 Atmospheric
• 51:25
  shots were over program went underground There were
• 51:30
  line-of-sight Experiments that I told you
• 51:32
  a little bit about the H lows the
• 51:34
  firing of device down a pipe which would
• 51:38
  blast hardware without cratering the surface and once
• 51:41
  in a while you would do a vertical
• 51:43
  line-of-sight test and They did one
• 51:45
  called the Huron King in 1980 Which was
• 51:49
  a an under 20 kiloton device at the
• 51:52
  bottom of a shaft and a partially evacuated
• 51:55
  chamber at the service which contained live communications
• 51:58
  satellite and A vertical pipe that carried the
• 52:02
  radiation up to it Mechanical closure snap shut
• 52:06
  to stop it to stop the radiation before
• 52:09
  it shredded the the payload the the What
• 52:15
  you call it the?
• 52:16
  Communications satellite But then the chamber got winched
• 52:22
  away as the ground subsided and that's act
• 52:25
  that actually occurred You know if you look
• 52:28
  out at Yucca flat, and there are pictures
• 52:30
  of it online you can pull it up
• 52:32
  you can imagine a pockmarked plane of Shallow
• 52:37
  bowls each one of them is a subsidence
• 52:40
  crater Which is the overhead soil settling into
• 52:44
  a cavity left by the the explosion So
• 52:48
  those bowls are permanent footnotes of underground testing
• 52:52
  if you look at the aerial photos You
• 52:55
  know it's the lumer out lunar album of
• 52:58
  US nuclear history so the naming protocols they
• 53:03
  would name them right my own memory from
• 53:06
  this is because they used to pass out
• 53:09
  stickers for them all and a lot of
• 53:11
  them were named for, Texas counties and that
• 53:15
  one There was a test called Bayer, and
• 53:20
  it was around San Antonio that one went
• 53:22
  up on April 4 of 1991 okay and
• 53:28
  Let's see trying to remember the dates of
• 53:32
  that if I was there for that one
• 53:36
  Man it would have been close I Came
• 53:41
  to the But I can't remember What the
• 53:45
  name of the weather I was there on
• 53:46
  so many of them because at any given
• 53:48
  time they were drilling holes for two Or
• 53:50
  three different tests, and so you were bouncing
• 53:53
  around between different holes and different Vertical or
• 53:57
  horizontal shafts of where you would they were
• 53:59
  able to look at and the Russians could
• 54:01
  go we want to go to this Site
• 54:03
  today, or we want to go to that
• 54:04
  site you'd go to different ones but The
• 54:09
  you remember how these I told you about
• 54:12
  the cables and the huge money That they
• 54:15
  spent on that there.
• 54:17
  There were so many of these that had
• 54:19
  gone on.
• 54:20
  I mean crossing these places in the desert
• 54:26
  It was you know kind of surreal to
• 54:28
  watch.
• 54:29
  What was going when we had to drive
• 54:30
  45 50 miles I mean it was a
• 54:33
  huge facility like I said 1,300 and
• 54:36
  something square miles and 65 miles from Vegas,
• 54:40
  but you'd you'd have to go another 60
• 54:42
  into the interior where they would blow these
• 54:45
  things up right and I Don't know Nevada
• 54:51
  didn't always get everything right.
• 54:53
  I told you a little bit last night
• 54:54
  about Bainbury in 1970 in the venting gas
• 54:58
  plug failed the Fisher opened up and radioactive
• 55:03
  plume Put a column about 10,000 feet
• 55:07
  in the air So they didn't always not
• 55:10
  every one of them collapsed as they were
• 55:13
  supposed to collapse and do so They did
• 55:17
  some peaceful use Testing they were anything but
• 55:21
  peaceful to the people that were living downwind
• 55:24
  of there.
• 55:25
  There was one called the sedan test in
• 55:29
  1962 which was part of Operation plowshare.
• 55:33
  It was a nuclear earth moving experiment That
• 55:37
  cut a crater in the ground 1,280
• 55:41
  feet across and 320 feet deep Still the
• 55:47
  biggest man-made hole you can tour in
• 55:51
  the US But the sedan also produced heavy
• 55:55
  fallout across the country all across the country
• 56:00
  So a classic example of how engineering with
• 56:04
  nuclear bombs collides with the public health the
• 56:07
  crater is huge the plume map is Distressing
• 56:12
  okay, so let's put this in a simple
• 56:15
  timeline our government Well put it in a
• 56:18
  simple thought process first our government has been
• 56:22
  Destroying us for the longest of times and
• 56:25
  from 1951 to 1962 they did it with
• 56:29
  nuclear testing 100 times above ground, okay?
• 56:34
  So the signature images are towers air drops
• 56:37
  balloon shots mushroom clouds you can see from
• 56:40
  Vegas from 1963 on they went underground shafts
• 56:46
  thousands of feet deep devices sealed in canisters
• 56:49
  Diagnostic snaking back to trailer complexes through the
• 56:53
  70s and 80s You know there were there
• 56:56
  were Names of these things mandrell grom at
• 57:01
  tinderbox school and julen till divider ended the
• 57:05
  chapter in 1992 so what has the u
• 57:08
  .s..
• 57:08
  Done since we hung up this big faux
• 57:13
  hammer the Subcritical experiments in u1a complex is
• 57:18
  now rebranded pulse these are deep underground Experiments
• 57:23
  with plutonium and high explosives that never Go
• 57:30
  critical right no self-sustaining chain reactions no
• 57:37
  nuclear Explosions, it's basically a stockpile and by
• 57:42
  measure they Verify it by measuring and math
• 57:46
  high-speed diagnostics x-ray imaging Simulations that
• 57:50
  keep nuclear warheads safe and reliable and do
• 57:54
  not break the test Moratorium so the government
• 57:58
  does talk about these openly you know they
• 58:00
  do run a press release when one is
• 58:02
  fired the first nimble series shot under pulse
• 58:06
  was in May of 2024 so since 1992
• 58:11
  it's been only physics.
• 58:13
  You know Not mental clouds Mushroom clouds I
• 58:19
  mean The sites go from mercury up through
• 58:23
  Frenchman flat.
• 58:24
  It's a very large place There are special
• 58:27
  effects or craters everywhere their accidents and rumors
• 58:30
  bottom line is America built an underground testing
• 58:34
  machine and Tell you what they used it
• 58:39
  and You know that is what they did
• 58:44
  in a personal aside from me because I
• 58:48
  was there and We were laying cable.
• 58:52
  You know like I told you about and
• 58:54
  to the NASA control room You know I
• 58:57
  thought it was really cool and interesting, but
• 59:00
  I also thought What a freaking waste of
• 59:03
  money how many of these tests did you
• 59:07
  need I?
• 59:09
  mean seriously we conducted almost a thousand tests
• 59:13
  a Thousand nuclear Explosions underground and above ground
• 59:18
  only 10% of above ground, but what
• 59:22
  do we get out of it?
• 59:24
  Seriously, and if everything is aging and it
• 59:27
  doesn't do any good anymore, and Trump says
• 59:29
  we got to start it back up now
• 59:31
  what?
• 59:33
  The world has gone to these You know
• 59:37
  less lethal means Why in the world would
• 59:41
  we want to go start all that crap
• 59:42
  again, I don't know we haven't lit a
• 59:47
  real device since 92 We have kept the
• 59:51
  engineering talent, I suppose is alive underground Stockpile
• 59:59
  is still there the site is ready, I
• 1:00:02
  suppose if the president does order a Return
• 1:00:06
  to testing that's unclear yet But you couldn't
• 1:00:10
  just jump right back in right Well, let's
• 1:00:15
  move on to what Russia has been doing
• 1:00:18
  or did over the same period Because they
• 1:00:22
  did a good number of these two So
• 1:00:26
  let's talk about semi Palatinsk and Nova Zemlya
• 1:00:31
  The Russian story for their testing Semi Palatinsk
• 1:00:37
  is in today's Kazakhstan Also called the polygon
• 1:00:42
  the polygon and Nova Zemlya the Arctic Archipelago
• 1:00:48
  Where Soviets lit the sky with Tsar Bomba
• 1:00:51
  remembered Tsar Bomba the largest nuclear explosion ever
• 1:00:55
  and Then later they dug into permafrost to
• 1:00:58
  keep the bangs underground and between these two
• 1:01:01
  Facilities you get a backbone of the Soviet
• 1:01:04
  and the Russian testing record so Tsar Bomba
• 1:01:09
  you can go out and watch that footage
• 1:01:11
  on YouTube Tsar Bomba Tsar being you know
• 1:01:16
  czar and the bomba of course bomb the
• 1:01:19
  Tsar bomb is huge and you should check
• 1:01:22
  it out in semi Palatinsk, this is Picture
• 1:01:28
  the expanse of a small US state 18
• 1:01:32
  ,000 to 19,000 square kilometers Carved into
• 1:01:37
  zones for different kind of experiments they had
• 1:01:39
  an experimental field for atmospheric shots.
• 1:01:43
  They did it, too They had boreholes They
• 1:01:46
  had an atomic lake and they had something
• 1:01:48
  called Degalin mountain for tunnel tests from 1949
• 1:01:53
  to the 1980s the Soviets did about 456
• 1:01:59
  tests 116 to 118 nobody knows the actual
• 1:02:05
  amount above ground so more than us and
• 1:02:10
  340 or so underground That's the official tally
• 1:02:16
  cited by international health and monitoring bodies that
• 1:02:19
  have been studying the area for decades I
• 1:02:22
  wonder and the funny part is you can't
• 1:02:25
  find anything about this International health and monitoring
• 1:02:28
  bodies that have been monitoring what's gone on
• 1:02:31
  near, Nevada How come we don't have the
• 1:02:34
  same thing and these are all Western they
• 1:02:36
  get to go over there Oh, geez, we're
• 1:02:37
  really worried about these international health and monitoring
• 1:02:40
  bodies.
• 1:02:41
  Look what those Russians were doing.
• 1:02:42
  We're doing the same thing nonsense, I Never
• 1:02:47
  understand that it's always well look what they
• 1:02:50
  were doing.
• 1:02:51
  Well, what were you doing at the same
• 1:02:53
  time?
• 1:02:54
  Anyway, semi politinsk is where the USSR went
• 1:02:58
  from the first lightning was the name of
• 1:03:00
  the device in 1949 and They began to
• 1:03:09
  mature into an industrial Testing machine they were
• 1:03:13
  they were pretty regular about it.
• 1:03:15
  Just like us and after the 1963 limited
• 1:03:19
  test ban treaty Pushed everybody out of atmospherics
• 1:03:23
  they shifted to underground as well They did
• 1:03:26
  the same thing vertical and tunnels The they
• 1:03:30
  were moved underground and cut visible fallout, but
• 1:03:33
  didn't erase the legacy everybody has a long
• 1:03:36
  paper trail of health studies and neighboring communities
• 1:03:39
  and The site was formally shut down on
• 1:03:45
  August 29 of 1991 a date later adopted
• 1:03:51
  by the UN as the International Day against
• 1:03:55
  nuclear testing so the atomic lake that shouldn't
• 1:04:01
  exist in January 1965 the Soviet shagun test
• 1:04:08
  at Balapan Excavated a crater and left behind
• 1:04:12
  behind a turquoise bowl.
• 1:04:15
  That is called the atomic lake It's more
• 1:04:18
  than a photo op.
• 1:04:19
  It kicked off a diplomatic headache US and
• 1:04:23
  Japanese sensors picked up radioactive debris outside of
• 1:04:28
  the USSR Which was a problem under the
• 1:04:31
  limited test ban treaty?
• 1:04:33
  Because it banned that release debris beyond your
• 1:04:37
  own borders was a problem Moscow's line was
• 1:04:41
  it was deep releases were insignificant Washington cried
• 1:04:45
  foul either way the physics lessons stood even
• 1:04:51
  contained Underground shots can you know burp up?
• 1:04:57
  Fission products into the open if the burial
• 1:05:01
  isn't deep enough or the geology is water
• 1:05:05
  Saturated, okay Let's go on to novaya zemlya
• 1:05:10
  where the Russians Where where where the ceiling
• 1:05:15
  Was the sky until it wasn't right?
• 1:05:19
  There were three test zones there with three
• 1:05:21
  separate purposes zone C is Sukhoi Nos the
• 1:05:26
  big air arena massive atmospheric tests including the
• 1:05:33
  Tsar Bomba in 1961 approximately 50 megatons The
• 1:05:41
  largest shot above ground Then they had zone
• 1:05:46
  a short and I a gooba Black Bay
• 1:05:49
  early underwater and above water surface shots and
• 1:05:53
  later a handful of vertical underground tests and
• 1:05:58
  Then they had zone B Matochkin shard the
• 1:06:02
  tunnel complex These are Tunnels cut into metamorphic
• 1:06:07
  rock under persistent permafrost where most underground testing
• 1:06:10
  happened from 64 to 90 Most of these
• 1:06:14
  were were tunnels vertical.
• 1:06:16
  I mean, I'm sorry horizontal So you depending
• 1:06:19
  on which?
• 1:06:20
  Technical catalog you read novaya zemlya it hosted
• 1:06:23
  about 130 to 132 test total the vast
• 1:06:27
  majority of Soviet total yield with 42 underground
• 1:06:31
  after the limited test ban treaty Moved, you
• 1:06:36
  know parties underground.
• 1:06:38
  The last Soviet test was October 24 of
• 1:06:41
  1990 This is where Soviet engineers learned to
• 1:06:46
  run very large yield underground shots in frozen
• 1:06:51
  rock yields were estimated up to multi megaton
• 1:06:55
  class underground and Wow, if semi palatins was
• 1:07:01
  a factory novaya zemlya was the Cathedral where
• 1:07:04
  they proved that You know the containment would
• 1:07:07
  hold and because they had some big tests
• 1:07:10
  up there the permafrost fractured a couple of
• 1:07:15
  times at Matochkin shard Soviet data released after
• 1:07:20
  the Cold War Indicated that a lot of
• 1:07:22
  noble gas seepage from underground was around and
• 1:07:26
  there were two-thirds the event showed some
• 1:07:28
  Release and several significant venting incidents that forced
• 1:07:33
  them to change their practice You know The
• 1:07:39
  u.s. Had their Mistakes as well, but
• 1:07:42
  the Soviets especially in the north had more
• 1:07:45
  so After 1990 the shutdown and what's going
• 1:07:50
  on presently semi palatins close in 91 Independent
• 1:07:55
  Kazakhstan Studies since then document health and environmental
• 1:08:00
  problems Nova Zemlya was quiet after 1990 at
• 1:08:06
  least for nuclear explosions What's changed lately is
• 1:08:09
  politics in 2023 Russia revoked its ratification of
• 1:08:13
  comprehensive nuclear threshold I'm sorry nuclear test ban
• 1:08:17
  treaty saying it wanted parity with the u
• 1:08:19
  .s. Which signed but didn't ratify diplomats still
• 1:08:22
  say they more the more mirror the moratorium,
• 1:08:25
  but they Say that the Arctic site is
• 1:08:29
  ready if the u.s. starts over again
• 1:08:34
  with testing So in 2024 the head of
• 1:08:37
  that site said publicly that he could take
• 1:08:41
  resume testing at any moment So there's is
• 1:08:45
  closer so the lights aren't on but the
• 1:08:48
  switch does work and everybody knows where it
• 1:08:50
  is basically So let's talk about the Buddha.
• 1:08:54
  Yes, Nick for just a minute I gave
• 1:08:56
  a story on that a little bit of
• 1:08:58
  a tale last week on the Buddha Yes,
• 1:09:00
  Nick in the test and what they've done
• 1:09:02
  So the second category is Buddha Separate Buddha.
• 1:09:06
  Yes Nick is the nuclear powered cruise missile
• 1:09:08
  says a lot about Russia's willingness to play
• 1:09:11
  at the edge of nuclear technology But it's
• 1:09:12
  not a nuclear explosive test like the ones
• 1:09:15
  conducted in semi Pilate in Skirdova Zimla It's
• 1:09:19
  a reactor powered propulsion system.
• 1:09:21
  It is not a nuclear explosion okay, so
• 1:09:25
  all it is a propulsion just like you
• 1:09:27
  got in a nuclear sub we do them
• 1:09:29
  too and It's just we haven't done anything
• 1:09:32
  this small and now I believe the old
• 1:09:36
  Trumpster sitting there go.
• 1:09:37
  Wait a minute.
• 1:09:38
  We don't have anything like that Because we
• 1:09:41
  don't We don't have anything that'll fly 14
• 1:09:44
  ,000 kilometers and loiter and sit and you
• 1:09:48
  could have it sit there for a very
• 1:09:50
  long time on a nuclear engine and So,
• 1:09:54
  well, what are we making nuclear engines?
• 1:09:57
  Nobody knows but maybe they're testing them as
• 1:09:59
  well and maybe since we're not I'm not
• 1:10:02
  involved in it anymore Maybe we do have
• 1:10:04
  something similar.
• 1:10:05
  I don't think so though or we'd be
• 1:10:07
  all too proud to talk about it and
• 1:10:09
  so far We're not So, I don't know
• 1:10:15
  talking about readiness The implication is the Russians
• 1:10:21
  say they can you know test a test
• 1:10:25
  a nuclear bomb With this at any time
• 1:10:32
  Underground and see what happens.
• 1:10:35
  I don't know That's that's what Russia has
• 1:10:39
  done, but everything is still closed, right?
• 1:10:44
  Everything is closed.
• 1:10:46
  Send me palatins Taught them how to test
• 1:10:49
  but it's closed.
• 1:10:50
  Nova is in law taught them how to
• 1:10:52
  contain It's still closed.
• 1:10:54
  And now Moscow is saying that you know,
• 1:10:57
  we still can Can do this if you
• 1:11:01
  guys start up again, right?
• 1:11:05
  I Wanted to make let's see what else
• 1:11:09
  we got here.
• 1:11:09
  We were moving on to France UK China
• 1:11:15
  India Pakistan and Israel and North Korea and
• 1:11:21
  what they did because the French were a
• 1:11:23
  little bit I remember studying all this stuff
• 1:11:26
  years and years ago and there was some
• 1:11:29
  nostalgia and going through it for me because
• 1:11:31
  it was Wow, I had Had forgotten how
• 1:11:40
  much there was to forget Put it that
• 1:11:43
  way So France they did some explosions in
• 1:11:47
  the Sahara All the way to the South
• 1:11:50
  Pacific, you know France used to you know
• 1:11:53
  have colonies all over the place They didn't
• 1:11:55
  do it in France.
• 1:11:56
  They did it in Algeria, right?
• 1:11:58
  They ran 210 tests total so the French
• 1:12:03
  Did 17 in Algeria from 60 to 66
• 1:12:08
  193 in French Polynesia from 66 to 96
• 1:12:12
  the official French breakout for atmospheric 13 underground
• 1:12:19
  and in in one of the places Ecker
• 1:12:24
  46 atmosphere is feric and 147 underground at
• 1:12:30
  Muroroa and in Polynesia, right Polynesia area So
• 1:12:38
  in the Sahara the early shots went into
• 1:12:41
  the air.
• 1:12:42
  The rest were drilled into granite and in
• 1:12:45
  Ecker containment failed Sometimes is what they say
• 1:12:50
  the barrel tunnel test in May 1962 vented
• 1:12:55
  hot rock in a radioactive cloud Ministers on
• 1:13:00
  -site were caught in the plume that you
• 1:13:04
  know, they got killed on it If the
• 1:13:07
  mountain, you know, you can't outrun it if
• 1:13:10
  it if it erupts, you know You're not
• 1:13:12
  gonna outrun it and in Polynesia the France
• 1:13:15
  moved the program to the Pacific in 66
• 1:13:19
  46 atmospheric tests and then they went underground
• 1:13:22
  and reef and under lagoon and in the
• 1:13:25
  ocean I Find this this is me But
• 1:13:30
  and I'm I don't know this to be
• 1:13:33
  absolutely true because I am NOT a nuclear
• 1:13:36
  scientist But what a place to conduct a
• 1:13:40
  nuclear test You're going under coral reefs and
• 1:13:43
  setting them off what in the world were
• 1:13:46
  you thinking?
• 1:13:47
  I mean I say that to all of
• 1:13:49
  them, but especially these crazy French That's nuts
• 1:13:54
  Paris's own public posture in 2025.
• 1:13:58
  There was a parliamentary inquiry that scrutinized fallout
• 1:14:04
  and compensation of people in Polynesia and they've
• 1:14:08
  been busy defending, you know, the the Nuclear
• 1:14:13
  testing over there have been defending its record,
• 1:14:16
  but even the French regulators are admitting uncertainty
• 1:14:20
  in old dose Reconstructions so You know, the
• 1:14:26
  cancer claims are not all closed, right?
• 1:14:30
  France's latest test was 1996 and it ratified
• 1:14:34
  the comprehensive test ban treaty in 98.
• 1:14:37
  So What about the United Kingdom they did
• 1:14:42
  it in Australia the Pacific and Nevada The
• 1:14:48
  UK did a total of 45 tests between
• 1:14:52
  1952 and 1991 21 atmospheric tests In Australia
• 1:15:00
  and The Pacific and 24 underground tests Contacted
• 1:15:06
  conducted at the Nevada nuclear test site usually
• 1:15:10
  in cooperation with the United States You know
• 1:15:14
  now they actually talk about it Britain raced
• 1:15:17
  to the H-bomb with operation grapple in
• 1:15:20
  1957 58 after earlier Australian shots Veterans accounts
• 1:15:26
  and lawsuits are still surfacing right in Nevada
• 1:15:31
  after the 1963 limited test ban Whitehall took
• 1:15:35
  its work underground in the US Those 24
• 1:15:39
  shots in Nevada closed out also in 1991,
• 1:15:43
  right?
• 1:15:44
  so What did China do during this time?
• 1:15:48
  China is kind of an outlier in In
• 1:15:52
  one sense all of its tests were at
• 1:15:56
  Lop Nur in Jingjian, I think it's called
• 1:16:00
  the Commonly cited total is 45 tests total
• 1:16:06
  23 atmospheric and 22 underground Some say it's
• 1:16:11
  actually 47 depending on how you treat the
• 1:16:16
  counting so Nobody knows for sure China used
• 1:16:22
  towers air drops high-altitude rocket shots early
• 1:16:26
  on Then they moved to shafts and tunnels
• 1:16:29
  as the limited test ban treaty, you know
• 1:16:33
  took effect The treaty status for China as
• 1:16:38
  I told you before they signed it, but
• 1:16:40
  haven't ratified it, but they abide by the
• 1:16:43
  moratorium Now, let's move on to India and
• 1:16:46
  Pakistan in 1998 this is after everything India
• 1:16:52
  did two tests at Pohran which is Rajasthan
• 1:16:58
  1974 the smiling Buddha they did a single
• 1:17:02
  underground device Publicly framed as a peaceful nuclear
• 1:17:06
  explosion and then in 1998 Pohran to an
• 1:17:10
  operation Shakti they did five underground devices from
• 1:17:15
  May 11th to May 13th Including a thermonuclear
• 1:17:20
  design, which is still debated to this day
• 1:17:23
  Nobody knows whether they really did it or
• 1:17:25
  not.
• 1:17:26
  They did tactical fission units and a sub
• 1:17:29
  kiloton experiment Pakistan and answered two weeks later
• 1:17:35
  with Shugai May 28th of 1998 Pakistan announced
• 1:17:40
  five underground devices in the Ross code range
• 1:17:44
  seismic data Clearly shows at least one major
• 1:17:49
  event Yields and the exact count are still
• 1:17:52
  argued then Shugai to on May 30th two
• 1:17:55
  days later They did another underground shot in
• 1:17:59
  the cutter on desert So neither India nor
• 1:18:02
  Pakistan has signed the comprehensive test ban treaty
• 1:18:06
  They both observe unilateral moratorium, but Legally, they're
• 1:18:11
  outside defense.
• 1:18:13
  So they don't They don't belong Let's see
• 1:18:20
  Israel.
• 1:18:20
  They don't talk.
• 1:18:22
  You never get anything.
• 1:18:24
  They are clearly Blocked it's widely assessed that
• 1:18:30
  Israel possesses nuclear weapons and it has signed
• 1:18:34
  but not ratified the comprehensive test ban treaty
• 1:18:38
  There are no declared Israeli nuclear tests there
• 1:18:44
  is a one allegation that in 1979 the
• 1:18:49
  villa incident where a US satellite saw a
• 1:18:53
  double flash South of Africa consistent with an
• 1:18:58
  atmospheric test later reviews split between a likely
• 1:19:03
  test or other phenomenon The National Security Archive
• 1:19:09
  has the declassified paper trail and the u
• 1:19:12
  .s. Never made a formal Accusation.
• 1:19:16
  It's the same old thing for for Israel
• 1:19:20
  nobody ever questions him right then nobody can
• 1:19:23
  it's the Schrodinger test simultaneously did and didn't
• 1:19:28
  Depending on which memo you wish to read
• 1:19:30
  then the one that everybody condemns is North
• 1:19:33
  Korea I don't understand why you know, why
• 1:19:36
  don't they have the right to do anything
• 1:19:38
  their country?
• 1:19:39
  Why doesn't anyone I don't want them to
• 1:19:41
  But who are we to tell another country?
• 1:19:44
  They're not allowed The only state to test
• 1:19:47
  nuclear devices in the 21st century is North
• 1:19:51
  Korea They did six underground tests 2006 2009
• 1:19:57
  2013 to in 2016 and one in 2017
• 1:20:01
  and Pyongyang claims the last was a thermonuclear
• 1:20:05
  device.
• 1:20:05
  So the comprehensive test ban treaty organization international
• 1:20:10
  monitoring system said the seismic signatures were recorded
• 1:20:14
  each time And so the network does exist
• 1:20:17
  and they can you know, keep track.
• 1:20:20
  So Plenty of tests what I meant to
• 1:20:26
  do was try to find something that would
• 1:20:28
  take them all for the entire Time period
• 1:20:32
  how many atmospheric tests occurred and how many
• 1:20:37
  underground and Underwater that would be interesting to
• 1:20:44
  know So we already talked about the treaty
• 1:20:48
  posture and and where we are going in
• 1:20:52
  that Could testing resume and what would it
• 1:20:57
  take the u.s. Law and the treaties
• 1:21:00
  today?
• 1:21:02
  The u.s. Is under a self-imposed
• 1:21:05
  moratorium since 92 the limited test band of
• 1:21:09
  63 still bans Atmospheric and underwater space shots
• 1:21:13
  so anything legal would have to be underground
• 1:21:17
  and fully contained the threshold test ban and
• 1:21:21
  P net Are limited at 150 kiloton and
• 1:21:25
  it is in force So the comprehensive test
• 1:21:28
  ban bans all tests, but isn't in force
• 1:21:31
  For the u.s. Because it was signed
• 1:21:34
  but not ratified So the president could lawfully
• 1:21:39
  order an underground test under u.s. Law
• 1:21:43
  but it would shred three decades of u
• 1:21:47
  .s. Policy and Every global norm that we've
• 1:21:51
  been following for the last 35 years 34
• 1:21:55
  Russia and China revoked as well the comprehensive
• 1:22:00
  test ban treaty in 2023 Whatever there that
• 1:22:05
  they had ratified earlier and both say they
• 1:22:07
  will mirror the u.s. Moratorium in 2024
• 1:22:14
  Nova Zimla said they were ready at any
• 1:22:17
  minute China signed but but never ratified.
• 1:22:20
  I apologize.
• 1:22:21
  I got that wrong in the last sentence
• 1:22:24
  They hadn't ratified Russia revoked its ratification But
• 1:22:29
  China also has a moratorium and China hasn't
• 1:22:32
  Done anywhere near as much as anybody else
• 1:22:36
  of the majors.
• 1:22:37
  Anyway, so I Don't know.
• 1:22:41
  How long would it take?
• 1:22:42
  That's an interesting question.
• 1:22:44
  There's a Government accountability office as noted that
• 1:22:49
  if the issue required an underground test the
• 1:22:52
  length of time would be 18 months or
• 1:22:55
  more Another GAO review said it would take
• 1:22:59
  up to three years to execute a test
• 1:23:03
  current reporting around Washington Underscores the same point
• 1:23:08
  years not months Unless corners are cut an
• 1:23:13
  above-ground shot, which is illegal or a
• 1:23:16
  rust rushed underground event would Both have to
• 1:23:21
  be rushed So anyone promising you next month
• 1:23:26
  That's nonsense if you're gonna do it underground
• 1:23:30
  it takes forever a Recent expert estimate for
• 1:23:35
  cost.
• 1:23:36
  What does it cost?
• 1:23:39
  puts a single underground test in the nine
• 1:23:44
  figures range One hundred million with some places
• 1:23:51
  citing 140 million once you add specialized drilling
• 1:23:58
  instruments containment security recovery the exact figure depends
• 1:24:04
  on depth yield geology and What sort of
• 1:24:09
  data you are looking at a modern underground
• 1:24:14
  test is a hundred million dollar?
• 1:24:17
  question mark and What would you get out
• 1:24:20
  of it?
• 1:24:21
  Nobody knows what's on the shopping list, right?
• 1:24:25
  people containment geologist stemming designers deep hole drillers
• 1:24:31
  timing engineers diagnostic engineers radiation health Emergency response
• 1:24:37
  the old gray beards who remember problems.
• 1:24:40
  You don't want to rediscover have all retired
• 1:24:42
  Maybe you got to bring them back to
• 1:24:44
  geo geo flagged workforce and aging infrastructure across
• 1:24:49
  the entire enterprise With attrition and gaps you
• 1:24:54
  need hiring training requalification not happening anytime soon
• 1:25:01
  Holes and hardware drilling rigs.
• 1:25:04
  They've all been taken away.
• 1:25:06
  They've all tell me Why would they leave
• 1:25:07
  them sit there that long if they did
• 1:25:08
  they'd all be?
• 1:25:10
  Unusable by now anyway, they need stemming material
• 1:25:13
  miles of instrumentation cable Which has to be
• 1:25:16
  conducted and then the u.s. How long
• 1:25:18
  are we going to do to put that
• 1:25:20
  into place to create these new upgraded cables
• 1:25:23
  billions of dollars for that?
• 1:25:26
  safety and off-site protection modeling pre shot
• 1:25:29
  air monitoring rapid response plants drill back plans
• 1:25:33
  what they have to do to get that
• 1:25:35
  paper and process a Presidential directive internal safety
• 1:25:39
  boards independent containment review all kinds of stuff
• 1:25:43
  so before you buy it a bomb You
• 1:25:46
  better buy the equipment buy the whole get
• 1:25:49
  the court get the wire get the people
• 1:25:51
  So you don't screw it all up before
• 1:25:54
  you even get started right the why in
• 1:25:57
  the world?
• 1:25:58
  Question is this Why do we care to
• 1:26:02
  do this again?
• 1:26:04
  Or does it resolve the uncertainty in an
• 1:26:08
  aging stockpile that you can't get from a
• 1:26:10
  simulation I Don't know GAO says there's other
• 1:26:15
  options short of testing refurbishment selective Retirement waivers,
• 1:26:22
  you know something like that prove a new
• 1:26:24
  design.
• 1:26:24
  I suppose would be another reason to conduct
• 1:26:27
  the test Maybe when a new primary or
• 1:26:31
  unfamiliar physics package I don't know.
• 1:26:33
  Maybe it's a deterrent to somebody else a
• 1:26:36
  show of strength Maybe we're trying to find
• 1:26:39
  out data that we can use in outer
• 1:26:40
  space and radiation stuff like that But then
• 1:26:45
  there's some why nots Because you break the
• 1:26:49
  norm CTBT is not enforced the moratorium is
• 1:26:53
  there though and people aren't doing it Everything
• 1:26:57
  that anybody does comes to Vienna and the
• 1:27:00
  only person country that has done anything in
• 1:27:04
  the last Well this century, you know as
• 1:27:08
  since the turn of the century has been
• 1:27:11
  North Korea number one there's a risk in
• 1:27:15
  arms race and you don't need it the
• 1:27:17
  u.s. Has certified the stockpile for decades
• 1:27:20
  and You know time and money tons of
• 1:27:24
  money 18 months minimum in my view to
• 1:27:27
  get you out there and You still might
• 1:27:30
  not like the answer some tests vent underperform
• 1:27:37
  or reveal awkward truths Nobody could really be
• 1:27:43
  sneaky about this to do it right now.
• 1:27:46
  We're gonna find out immediately Ramping up gonna
• 1:27:50
  take a while What do you watch for?
• 1:27:55
  deep drilling watch for purchase watch all the
• 1:28:00
  messaging that people are doing and in late
• 1:28:04
  October 2025 the US media have reported this
• 1:28:08
  presidential order to order to prepare for more
• 1:28:12
  Is it possible technically?
• 1:28:14
  Yep.
• 1:28:14
  My story tells you it's technically possibly ready
• 1:28:19
  Operationally ready.
• 1:28:20
  Nope, not tomorrow 18 to 36 months as
• 1:28:24
  would be the window Strategically smart.
• 1:28:28
  I say no The only only do it
• 1:28:33
  if you can explain what answer you need
• 1:28:35
  That you can't get in other ways, right?
• 1:28:39
  You have all the data still available to
• 1:28:41
  you and what about a geopolitical?
• 1:28:44
  cascade Russia's ready.
• 1:28:47
  China says it's ready and everyone is Really
• 1:28:55
  We don't need this It'd be foolish for
• 1:28:59
  any of them to do it.
• 1:29:00
  So basically could we do it?
• 1:29:02
  Yes, will it impress anyone?
• 1:29:04
  No, will it impress the rock?
• 1:29:06
  No the rock once depth, you know, not
• 1:29:09
  speeches Will it impress our rivals probably not
• 1:29:12
  more important audiences the network of censors and
• 1:29:15
  allies that hear everything in 2025 the cost
• 1:29:19
  of a bang isn't money in months.
• 1:29:21
  It's the sound of what?
• 1:29:23
  US credibility Hitting the floor once again, we
• 1:29:28
  need to stay away from this My name
• 1:29:31
  is Samuel trap.
• 1:29:32
  I did get through the entire Content of
• 1:29:37
  what I wanted to get here for part
• 1:29:39
  two, I appreciate you listening Ask you to
• 1:29:43
  join Monday through I'm sorry Sunday through Thursday
• 1:29:47
  every week 9 p.m. To 10 30
• 1:29:51
  p.m. The damn radio.com Forward slash
• 1:29:54
  live or at international flavor calm.
• 1:29:56
  Good night