Latest / Green Benches with Deiniol Brown / Seamus Logan MP: The Fight for Independence and Supporting Scotland from Westminster

Transcript

Seamus Logan MP: The Fight for Independence and Supporting Scotland from Westminster · Green Benches with Deiniol Brown

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Order, order.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: I became very aware of the connections between the desire for Scottish independence
0:14
SPEAKER_01: and the desire for the reunification of the island of Ireland politically.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I fundamentally want to achieve independence for Scotland.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: That is why I joined the SNP.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: And I believe that in my lifetime we will see that and we will also see
0:31
SPEAKER_01: the reunification of Ireland as well.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: I believe in relation to particularly Jack Dog,
0:36
SPEAKER_01: That the Burnham government should immediately grant a license for that
0:39
SPEAKER_01: because I do believe there is a potential threat to gas supplies in these islands.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: And of course approving Jackdahl would help to alleviate that problem immediately.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Keir Starmer came along and sold out 12 years of fishing rights to
0:56
SPEAKER_01: the European Union in exchange for very little.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: So I'm firmly of the belief that while the common fisher's policy was not right
1:05
SPEAKER_01: for our fishing industry,
1:06
SPEAKER_01: of course,
1:09
SPEAKER_01: being back into or closer to the European Union offers great potential
1:14
SPEAKER_01: for our fisher folk.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Independence will always be at the front and centre of
1:19
SPEAKER_01: the Scottish National Party's policies and programmes.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really matter when the next election is held.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back to Green Benches with Daniel.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm talking to another MP, if you'd like to introduce yourself.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Hello Daniel,
1:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm Seamus Logan,
1:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm the MP for Aberdeenshire North and Marie East representing
1:39
SPEAKER_01: the Scottish National Party.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: And we'll be talking to Seamus today about some of his political background,
1:46
SPEAKER_00: some of the campaigns and issues that he's working on today and some of
1:50
SPEAKER_00: the national issues facing Scotland and the UK.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for joining us.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: So just kicking off, I'd like to ask you a bit about your political background.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: What were some of your early political influences growing up in Northern Ireland?
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Of course,
2:07
SPEAKER_01: as you rightly say,
2:08
SPEAKER_01: I grew up, was born and brought up in Northern Ireland in a village called Dunloy.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: And my first political memory was hearing Terence O'Neill,
2:18
SPEAKER_01: who was then Prime Minister of Northern Ireland,
2:21
SPEAKER_01: coming to Dunloy to speak about his liberal vision for unionism,
2:26
SPEAKER_01: which sadly was not adhered to or adopted or supported by many of his voters.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: And alas, he eventually lost his place.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I next became interested or involved in politics when I was a student
2:40
SPEAKER_01: at Stirling University in Scotland.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: And I was involved with the Hunt Saboteurs and also with an organization at
2:47
SPEAKER_01: that time called the Anti-Nazi League,
2:50
SPEAKER_01: because the far right were a problem in the late 70s across these islands.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: And as students, we felt it was our duty to rise up and up.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Oppose the far right at that time.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Later on, I wasn't able to engage in politics to any great extent because of my job.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: I worked in the health and social care services for more than 33 years.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: But I retained an interest,
3:15
SPEAKER_01: obviously,
3:16
SPEAKER_01: and I demonstrated in the Stop the War campaign in 2003,
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Tony Blair's illegal war in Iraq.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And then later on,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I was involved in helping my brother, who stood as an SDLP candidate in North Down.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: I never joined the SDLP,
3:35
SPEAKER_01: but when I retired and moved to Scotland in 2018,
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I was able to more fully express my political beliefs,
3:42
SPEAKER_01: and I joined the Scottish National Party as a local member and activist.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: And one thing led to another,
3:47
SPEAKER_01: and I was elected as a councillor in 2022, and then as an MP in 2024.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you think growing up in Northern Ireland in the 60s and 70s has had a big impact
3:58
SPEAKER_00: on your politics and how you see the world today?
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm very conscious of societal injustice,
4:08
SPEAKER_01: of the interests of minority groups when
4:14
SPEAKER_01: majoritarianism can adversely affect them.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: We knew all about gerrymandering and discrimination back in the 60s and 70s.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I feel that gave me a great sense of right and wrong and justice and injustice.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And now that helps to shape my political activities now here in Westminster.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: And I do try to speak up for affected minority groups, for example, the Waspy Woman.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Who have been adversely affected as a result of changes to women's pensions.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: That's just one example.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: There are a range of other groups that I've tried to speak up on behalf of.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: For example,
4:52
SPEAKER_01: animal rights,
4:54
SPEAKER_01: the people that are affected by the war in Sudan,
4:57
SPEAKER_01: for example, is another issue that I've spoken about.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: And what drew you to Scottish politics in particular and the Scottish National Party?
5:08
SPEAKER_00: What made you choose that party?
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Well,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I've been a sort of an informal student of history and because I was a tour guide
5:15
SPEAKER_01: at one point,
5:16
SPEAKER_01: In my working life,
5:17
SPEAKER_01: I became very aware of the connections between the desire for Scottish independence
5:23
SPEAKER_01: and the desire for the reunification of the island of Ireland politically.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And so I fundamentally want to achieve independence for Scotland.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: That is why I joined the SNP.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And I believe that in my lifetime we will see that and we will also see
5:40
SPEAKER_01: the reunification of Ireland as well.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: And these are things,
5:43
SPEAKER_01: but it's now with a Scottish angle that I really want to try and work towards.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's the primary reason why the SNP exists to achieve Scottish independence.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you very much.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: You preempted my second question there.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: That's a very good overview.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And I was also wondering,
6:05
SPEAKER_00: you know,
6:05
SPEAKER_00: you've been a councillor,
6:07
SPEAKER_00: as you said,
6:07
SPEAKER_00: and I'll come back to you've worked in social care for a lot of your life.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: What made you want to take that next step and become an MP?
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, it wasn't something that I planned,
6:18
SPEAKER_01: but when you take on roles within local political branches,
6:23
SPEAKER_01: people do tend to sort of see you as someone with potential,
6:28
SPEAKER_01: as a leader, as a political representative.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: And I did relish the opportunity to represent my own council district,
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Fraserburgh and District, on Aberdeenshire Council.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I would strongly recommend all MPs That they should spend a bit of time working
6:47
SPEAKER_01: at council level to get a grasp of the issues that are relevant
6:51
SPEAKER_01: to their own local area.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: That was a great grounding.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: And so it became natural for me then,
6:57
SPEAKER_01: I suppose,
6:57
SPEAKER_01: to move from that role to a candidate for Westminster when
7:02
SPEAKER_01: the opportunity came along.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: It was something I aimed for or planned for.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a great politician.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: But others encouraged me and I welcomed the opportunity to do that.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to hear a bit about your constituency.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's very far from Westminster here.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know how you deal with that distance.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: But could you just give us a picture of your constituency?
7:26
SPEAKER_00: What's it like?
7:27
SPEAKER_00: What are the people like?
7:28
SPEAKER_00: What's the kind of culture of your constituency?
7:31
SPEAKER_01: So I came from the northeast of Ireland and now live in the northeast of Scotland.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: My constituency runs from Cruden Bay in the south all the way up around the coast to
7:40
SPEAKER_01: the River Spey in the west.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's a coastal community.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: It's a rural community, but with significant urban populations.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Bucky, Banff, Macduff, Fraserburgh, Rose Hardy, Peterhead.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: And while it's regarded as an affluent constituency,
7:59
SPEAKER_01: it also has significant areas of deprivation.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: Peterhead and Fraserburgh particularly feature in league tables of deprivation.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: So that's an important issue and it connects to what I was saying earlier.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: But it's also a constituency that has some very significant industries.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Farming and fishing are the backbone of that area
8:23
SPEAKER_01: and has been for many, many decades.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Now, of course,
8:26
SPEAKER_01: over the last 40,
8:27
SPEAKER_01: 50 years,
8:28
SPEAKER_01: we've seen the oil and gas sector becoming very,
8:31
SPEAKER_01: very So that's very important locally.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: So we've got the St. Fergus gas plant in my constituency.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Many, many hundreds,
8:38
SPEAKER_01: maybe thousands of people in the constituency are employed in the oil
8:42
SPEAKER_01: and gas sector.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: So that's very important.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Two important industries as well.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Not naturally industries or areas that have supported the Scottish National Party in
8:53
SPEAKER_01: the past,
8:54
SPEAKER_01: but because I'm elected to represent all 72,000 electors in the constituency,
8:59
SPEAKER_01: it's my job to make sure that all of those areas are properly represented.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And I spent a fair bit of time speaking to the NFU Scotland and
9:11
SPEAKER_01: to fishing organizations to make sure that their interests are properly represented.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Now, of course,
9:17
SPEAKER_01: we've got the new industries coming along,
9:19
SPEAKER_01: that's essentially the renewable sector,
9:21
SPEAKER_01: largely wind,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: but then there are other opportunities in waste,
9:25
SPEAKER_01: for example, and carbon capture, and also in solar energy.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And these are really emerging industries,
9:32
SPEAKER_01: and they're part of what we refer to as the just transition,
9:36
SPEAKER_01: because we've got to ensure that the workers who are currently employed in the oil
9:40
SPEAKER_01: and gas sector will have a transition into these new industries.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And this industrial revolution is happening before our eyes in my constituency.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'll come on to ask questions about a lot of those different sectors
9:54
SPEAKER_00: that you've talked about there.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to start with care and social work.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And as the SNP spokesperson for health and social care and also someone who's worked
10:05
SPEAKER_00: in it much of your life,
10:08
SPEAKER_00: there's obviously been a lot of discussion about care at the moment
10:12
SPEAKER_00: with Andy Burnham announcing his want to create a national care service.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: What, from your perspective as someone who's worked in this and looked at it from
10:22
SPEAKER_00: a political angle as well,
10:24
SPEAKER_00: in your eyes,
10:24
SPEAKER_00: what is the problem with the current social care system in Scotland but in the UK
10:30
SPEAKER_00: at large?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: So I need to be very clear about this because health
10:34
SPEAKER_01: and social care is largely devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to only focus on those issues that are relevant to Westminster.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I was a mental health social worker.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: That's where I started my work.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: That's what I wanted to do.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: And I worked in that for many years and then was promoted eventually right to
10:51
SPEAKER_01: the very top of health and social care organizations in Northern Ireland.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Mental health has always been something that I've had an interest in and worked in that area.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: So I do see a major challenge in relation to the development
11:06
SPEAKER_01: of mental health services,
11:08
SPEAKER_01: not just for adults, but particularly for children and young people.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And there are serious problems in relation to staffing and resourcing in those areas.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: But you mentioned social care.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: Andy Burnham's talking about a national social care service,
11:24
SPEAKER_01: but really what he's trying to address are problems in
11:26
SPEAKER_01: the English social care system.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: We have the same problems in Scotland, but in Scotland, personal care is free, not in England.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I'm going to be speaking in the chamber later this afternoon
11:39
SPEAKER_01: on this issue of the ending of the triple lock,
11:42
SPEAKER_01: which will affect Scottish pensioners,
11:44
SPEAKER_01: which is now going to be used to pay for the development of
11:47
SPEAKER_00: the English social care system.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Now, leaving aside the political point,
11:52
SPEAKER_01: the problems that you're referring to, Daniel, are, I believe, to do with funding.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: And that brings into play,
12:00
SPEAKER_01: of course,
12:00
SPEAKER_01: the pressures on our hospitals,
12:02
SPEAKER_01: because many, many of our beds are affected by people whose discharge is delayed.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: And these delayed discharges, of course, block up the beds in the hospital.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's largely because our Health and social care services in communities are underfunded.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: So we really need to see a much stronger investment in social care,
12:25
SPEAKER_01: which will have an impact on the provision of our hospital services as well.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Now, that also brings in a question about the workforce.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Where are we going to get these social care workers?
12:35
SPEAKER_01: The present government believe that there are hundreds and hundreds
12:40
SPEAKER_01: of young people potentially who could work in social care.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And while that might be right,
12:45
SPEAKER_01: It's not seen by these young people as an attractive career option.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: In addition to that, we're almost at full employment.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Effectively,
12:54
SPEAKER_01: we are at full employment in my constituency and across many parts of
12:58
SPEAKER_01: the northern part of Scotland.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: So we've got to try and bring in international workers to help
13:05
SPEAKER_01: to fill these vacancies,
13:06
SPEAKER_01: not just in social care, but in other parts of the service as well.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And at the minute,
13:10
SPEAKER_01: the Home Office's immigration policies,
13:12
SPEAKER_01: which are all reserved to Westminster,
13:14
SPEAKER_01: are completely alien to trying to deal with that problem.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: So we need, Andy Burnham talks about stronger devolution for Scotland.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Let him devolve those powers to the Scottish Parliament so
13:26
SPEAKER_01: that we can address those problems in Scotland.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And the SNP and the Scottish Parliament,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: I believe this year or last year,
13:35
SPEAKER_00: tried to introduce National Care Service to Scotland,
13:38
SPEAKER_00: but that legislation broke down.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Could you just tell me about that kind of process and where you stood on that issue?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: And if there's maybe any lessons for what the SNP went through trying to put
13:53
SPEAKER_00: that legislation into place for Andy Burnham?
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, unfortunately,
13:59
SPEAKER_01: you were speaking again about a matter that's devolved to the Scottish Parliament,
14:02
SPEAKER_01: and I'm not going to get into issues that are devolved in any great detail.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Suffice to say that I think the overall vision for a national care service was
14:12
SPEAKER_01: the right one, because we need a career path for people coming into social care.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: They need to be able to see their way forward so that they're not constantly on minimum wage.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think the overall vision was Unfortunately,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: we couldn't carry political support and the whole thing got bogged down in
14:29
SPEAKER_01: a political argument.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: So that was something that was very sad.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: I would recommend that Andy Burnham tries very hard to try and make this
14:37
SPEAKER_01: a non-political issue and that he concentrates on creating a social care strategy
14:46
SPEAKER_01: that gives people a clear sense of a career path,
14:50
SPEAKER_01: an opportunity for them to develop skills and Obtain promotions
14:55
SPEAKER_01: and eventually see themselves as having a career in social care rather than it being
15:00
SPEAKER_01: a job that people do as a last resort almost.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: And now moving on to the issue of the North Sea,
15:06
SPEAKER_00: which, as you said, is very important for your constituency or constituents.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: As an MP that's probably much further up close to this issue than most MPs,
15:19
SPEAKER_00: what is your position on revisiting North Sea oil and gas and on
15:26
SPEAKER_00: the Burnham government's seeming to revisit this question?
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, I believe our party policy is very clear.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: We don't support the importation of oil or gas from international sources
15:40
SPEAKER_01: when we've got it on our doorstep,
15:41
SPEAKER_01: provided that the extraction of oil and gas from the North Sea is compatible
15:47
SPEAKER_01: with our climate change responsibilities.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: Now, I believe in relation to particularly Jackdaw,
15:53
SPEAKER_01: The Burnham government should immediately grant a license for that
15:56
SPEAKER_01: because I do believe there is a potential threat to gas supplies in these islands.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Of course, approving Jack Dahl would help to alleviate that problem immediately.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Now, of course,
16:09
SPEAKER_01: as I said a minute ago, it's got to be compatible with our climate change targets.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: But when you compare the importation of LPG from the US or from the Middle East,
16:21
SPEAKER_01: it's a no-brainer.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: We've got to take it from the North Sea.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: I think the Rosebank argument is slightly different, but we'll see how that plays out.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: And again,
16:30
SPEAKER_01: of course,
16:31
SPEAKER_01: if the climate compatibility test Measures up to the and uses a comparison
16:37
SPEAKER_01: between importing it from international sources as opposed to extracting it locally.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Oil will burn where it comes from and it produces climate warming gases.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: But in my constituency, we've got a scheme to try and tackle that.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: It's called the Acorn Project at St. Fergus.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: It's only received minimal funding to date.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: 200 billion sounds like a lot.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: But when you think about the billions that are being ploughed into other schemes
17:06
SPEAKER_01: in England, St.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Fergus really needs to be taken on board by the British government and invest it in
17:15
SPEAKER_01: as quickly as possible.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Because,
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Deiniol,
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Carbon capture industries have got fantastic potential to service other countries.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Europe, for example.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: If we could see the development of carbon capture properly in these islands,
17:31
SPEAKER_01: then we've got the potential to import carbon from other places in liquid form
17:38
SPEAKER_01: and store it in the chambers under the North Sea that are now depleted
17:42
SPEAKER_01: because we've extracted all the gas from those chambers.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: It's a very...
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Simple proposal on paper at least.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: It's technically very difficult, but it can be done.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: And the opportunities for re-industrialization,
17:54
SPEAKER_01: which is a term that Andy Burnham uses constantly, let's do it.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's get on with it.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: And why do you think Burnham is struggling so much to make that argument in Parliament.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Are MPs maybe not understanding the realities that one can see from a constituency like yours?
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Why is this proving to be such a controversial issue?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think he's struggling that much, to be honest.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: I support what Ed Miliband when he was in Desnes
18:23
SPEAKER_01: and people like Michael Shanks are trying to do.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: I believe that they've got the right idea when they speak about the development
18:29
SPEAKER_01: of renewables, when they speak about the development of carbon capture.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: All I'm trying to say to them is get behind the Scottish industries as well.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Don't make this an England-centric policy.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Think about the opportunities that we have in the Murray Firth,
18:44
SPEAKER_01: which is beside my constituency,
18:47
SPEAKER_01: for the development of Scott Wind and all the renewable sources that we've got there
18:52
SPEAKER_01: and also carbon capture.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: I think they get that.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: It's just about trying to help them to see that it needs to be something that needs
19:00
SPEAKER_01: to happen in Scotland.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: And the other point about that,
19:03
SPEAKER_01: of course,
19:03
SPEAKER_01: is if they would do that,
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Then we might have the opportunity to reduce the cost of energy for people who live
19:10
SPEAKER_01: in Scotland because at the minute they're paying the highest bills in the UK and
19:13
SPEAKER_01: in some cases the highest standing charges in Europe and this needs to change.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: So you also said that farming was a backbone of your constituency
19:22
SPEAKER_00: and you've recently called for the full relief of inheritance tax on farms.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: What do you say to those critics who would say
19:31
SPEAKER_00: that This inheritance tax relief actually benefits a small number
19:36
SPEAKER_00: of very wealthy landowners and actually does very little for smaller family farms.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: What's been your kind of view on that?
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, you see,
19:45
SPEAKER_01: it's not beyond the wit of man or the brainy people in the UK Treasury
19:52
SPEAKER_01: to actually find a mechanism for detecting which are the family farms and which are
19:57
SPEAKER_01: the investors who are seeking to obtain tax relief.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: That shouldn't be beyond their wit to understand that.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: The reason why I think the inheritance tax,
20:06
SPEAKER_01: the family farm tax,
20:07
SPEAKER_01: as it's sometimes called,
20:09
SPEAKER_01: was wrong Is that while you may appear to be very rich on paper,
20:15
SPEAKER_01: actually your income per annum is very low.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: So you might be land rich and cash poor.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And the point about the farm is that you can't sort of sell it and then start it again.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Once you've sold the land, it belongs to somebody else.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: So the idea of passing these Farms down from one generation to another is really,
20:37
SPEAKER_01: really important.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: And to hit them with a massive inheritance tax,
20:41
SPEAKER_01: you could find someone who's from a very modest financial background facing
20:46
SPEAKER_01: a tax bill of 500,000 pounds or more to the UK treasury simply
20:52
SPEAKER_01: because they want them.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Keep the farm going and pass it on to the son or daughter.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: This is not right because,
20:58
SPEAKER_01: and it's said so often so glibly by so many politicians,
21:03
SPEAKER_01: food security is national security.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Think about that for a minute or two.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: If this country really got embroiled in an international conflict
21:11
SPEAKER_01: and there's every prospect that that could happen,
21:14
SPEAKER_01: where do you think we're going to be able to obtain our food from?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: It's from those farms.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: So we've got to try and protect them from being sold or broken up
21:22
SPEAKER_01: into smaller parcels of land which are used for other purchases.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: We've got to protect those family farms.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: And this is why the inheritance tax was a problem.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And you also said that fishing was another backbone of your constituency.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And the fishing industry has been used as a bit of a political football over
21:40
SPEAKER_00: the last kind of decade in different negotiations.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that successive governments,
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Conservative and Labour,
21:48
SPEAKER_00: have failed the fishing industry and has the kind of
21:55
SPEAKER_00: conflict over fishing had
21:57
SPEAKER_00: a serious impact on the communities that you represent?
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it did.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: There's absolutely no doubt that the common fisheries policy had certain aspects
22:06
SPEAKER_01: which were completely deprimental to our fishing industry in the northeast
22:11
SPEAKER_01: of Scotland.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: There's no doubt about that.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: But they were, I believe...
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Deceived by people like Boris Johnson and others who put them up
22:21
SPEAKER_01: as their poster boys when it came to the Brexit campaign.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
22:25
SPEAKER_01: if you remember at that time,
22:27
SPEAKER_01: there was a fishing boat came down from the Northeast and sailed off
22:30
SPEAKER_01: the Thames just outside Parliament here and challenged the whole Remain supporters.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: And so many of our fisher folk We're sucked into believing that to leave
22:44
SPEAKER_01: the EU would be helpful to the fishing industry.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And then look what happened.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Keir Starmer came along and sold out 12 years of fishing rights to
22:54
SPEAKER_01: the European Union in exchange for very little.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So I'm firmly of the belief that while the common fisher's policy was not right
23:03
SPEAKER_01: for our fishing industry,
23:04
SPEAKER_01: of course,
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Being back into or closer to the European Union offers great potential
23:12
SPEAKER_01: for our fisher folk.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And you're also passionate about whiskey, I believe, in the whiskey industry.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: That's another political football,
23:22
SPEAKER_00: especially with tariffs and countries like the US, China,
23:26
SPEAKER_00: India, and tariffs that have been sort of raised and lowered over recent years.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen any impact from this political instability on the whiskey industry?
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And just how important is whiskey to Scotland's economy?
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's massive.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: It's the largest single export in the food and drinks industry that we have.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: I think salmon also is a massive export product that we bring from Scotland.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: The whisky industry is important to my constituency.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's not perhaps the largest share.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: I think neighboring constituencies across the Rivers Bay have got more distilleries.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: But we have some distilleries in my constituency,
24:08
SPEAKER_01: and they're very important because they employ hundreds of people.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: The Treasury,
24:12
SPEAKER_01: we're told,
24:14
SPEAKER_01: the last time they looked at excise julie for whisky,
24:18
SPEAKER_01: There was an inverse relationship between the size of the excise duty and the sale
24:24
SPEAKER_01: of whiskey.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: They were told if you increase the excise duty,
24:27
SPEAKER_01: your take into the treasury will actually reduce because it's a curve that works in
24:33
SPEAKER_01: a certain way.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: The more costly the whiskey becomes, the less you sell of it.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And while the Previous government and indeed this government have talked grandly
24:44
SPEAKER_01: about trade deals with the United States,
24:47
SPEAKER_01: with India, and how this will be beneficial to the whiskey industry.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: We've not seen any evidence of that yet.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
24:54
SPEAKER_01: what we're seeing on the ground,
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Is farmers' contracts for the production of barley being reduced?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: We're seeing people being laid off from distillers.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: So how is it in the House of Commons that ministers and other MPs stand up
25:08
SPEAKER_01: and speak grandly about what the government requires?
25:11
SPEAKER_01: We're doing for the Scotch whisky industry when
25:14
SPEAKER_01: in fact that's not actually happening on the ground and I see it
25:17
SPEAKER_01: in my own constituency.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: The other thing also to remark upon is the decision to allow English distillers
25:23
SPEAKER_01: to have a single malt product.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Again, that's undermining the Scottish whisky industry.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: We'll be challenging that as far as we can, of course.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And in your eyes, why are these decisions being made?
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Are they just kind of a lack of understanding of the importance of the industry
25:42
SPEAKER_00: or is it something else?
25:57
SPEAKER_01: That Westminster does not have Scottish interests at heart.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: And that's why we want to see independence for Scotland.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: We want to see in the interim,
26:07
SPEAKER_01: until that happens,
26:08
SPEAKER_01: as much of the decision-making powers devolve to the Scottish Parliament.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: But ultimately,
26:12
SPEAKER_01: the solution to all of these problems is to give the power to the people who live
26:17
SPEAKER_01: in Scotland and give us the powers that come with a full independent nation.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think picking up on that sentiment towards the end there,
26:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm fascinated to know for you and in your perspective for Scots,
26:34
SPEAKER_00: is Andy Burnham's number 10 North just rhetoric to you
26:39
SPEAKER_00: or do you think it really means something?
26:41
SPEAKER_01: I wish Andy Burnham and his government well,
26:44
SPEAKER_01: believe it or not,
26:45
SPEAKER_01: because the alternative is a Nigel Farage,
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Richard Tice, Sue Ella Braverman, Robert Jenrick government.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And that will be anathema to so many people.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: So paradoxically, I wish him well.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: I remain to be convinced that number 10 North will actually benefit Scotland.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: We will have to wait and see.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: But if he really does intend to bring a new politics, A collaborative politics.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: A politics that listens and understands the needs of people.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Then he's got to,
27:20
SPEAKER_01: as he indicated in a reply to my colleague Chris Law not that long ago,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: that he understands the comparison between Northern Ireland and Scotland.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: And in Northern Ireland,
27:28
SPEAKER_01: of course,
27:29
SPEAKER_01: they have the right to a referendum every seven years if it appears to the Secretary
27:34
SPEAKER_01: of State that the majority of people would favor that.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, the majority of people in Scotland,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: as poll after poll after poll has demonstrated,
27:42
SPEAKER_01: The majority of people do now favour Independence for Scotland.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: And we recently, last May, elected the largest number of independent supporting MSPs ever.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's a point that's not lost on Andy Burnham, particularly, I believe.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: And I will return to the question of independence before the end.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: But I just wanted to ask a bit about kind of your experiences here in Westminster.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And I'm interested to know in terms of your colleagues from other parties here
28:14
SPEAKER_00: in Westminster,
28:15
SPEAKER_00: what kind of parties and policies do you find yourself identifying with most aside
28:20
SPEAKER_00: from the independence issue?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Is it a party like Labour or is it maybe another party?
28:26
SPEAKER_01: It's Labour, of course.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: We're a left-leaning party in the Scottish National Party,
28:30
SPEAKER_01: so we find much more in common with the Labour government than with
28:34
SPEAKER_01: the Conservative government.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: There are individual MPs within the
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Labour movement,
28:40
SPEAKER_01: and I use that term broadly, people like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And other folk who are on that side of the Labour Party that I identify much more closely with.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: But of course,
28:53
SPEAKER_01: we have strong links with Plaid Cymru and Sinn Féin and the SDLP and
29:00
SPEAKER_01: the Alliance Party, actually.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Individuals,
29:06
SPEAKER_01: I find at an individual level,
29:08
SPEAKER_01: I can relate to much more easily than at a party political level.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I have good friends right across the house.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Even in the Conservative Party, I have good friends there too.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's fair to say that the SNP in recent years have had their fair share
29:24
SPEAKER_00: of crises and controversies.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: In that period,
29:29
SPEAKER_00: that particular period where your chief executive and leader of
29:33
SPEAKER_00: the party were being investigated,
29:36
SPEAKER_00: did you ever question the leadership of the SNP and those leadership structures?
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever question those in your own head?
29:46
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm a loyal member of the Scottish National Party and I deal with leadership
29:52
SPEAKER_01: as I find them.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's largely been the leadership of John Swinney, who I have tremendous regard for.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Every political party has had problems.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Look at the former leader of the Reform Party in Wales, who's now in jail.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: And others,
30:09
SPEAKER_01: the Conservatives,
30:10
SPEAKER_01: we don't need to go back too far to find problems within the Conservative Party.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: And there are all sorts of issues in every political party.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: So our enemies, our opponents will make The most of those opportunities when they do.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: But the issue that you mentioned particularly about the former chief executive,
30:28
SPEAKER_01: that was one individual who's been charged,
30:30
SPEAKER_01: found guilty and is now serving a prison sentence.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: You cannot dismiss our movement on the back of one individual who did wrong.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And you said you have great admiration for John Sweeney.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like he has made significant changes within the party structure?
30:48
SPEAKER_00: And do you think he's made some kind of reforms to stop that kind
30:53
SPEAKER_00: of thing happening again in the future?
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes, he has strengthened our internal governance.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: He's strengthened the role of bodies like the NAC.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Despite what some people try to say,
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I believe he's making our party more democratically accountable in relation
31:09
SPEAKER_01: to what our activists and our supporters actually believe in.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's demonstrated through the policies which he brings forward in his program
31:19
SPEAKER_01: for government.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: So we do seek to protect vulnerable people,
31:23
SPEAKER_01: whether that's young people,
31:24
SPEAKER_01: children and families,
31:26
SPEAKER_01: whether that's older people,
31:28
SPEAKER_01: whether that's the many new Scots who have come to Scotland and
31:31
SPEAKER_01: who now believe Scotland is their home and quite rightly so.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: Because we will always be a welcoming,
31:37
SPEAKER_01: hospitable nation when it comes to welcoming the stranger.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And that's the difference that the SNP can make locally.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: And it comes through in very specific policies like free tuition fees
31:49
SPEAKER_01: or no tuition fees for our younger people,
31:52
SPEAKER_01: which is a stark contrast to other parts of these islands.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Free travel for young people and old people.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: These policies make a difference in terms of helping people with the cost of living.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And the final question before we finish,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to ask is,
32:08
SPEAKER_00: you know, there's been speculation about a potential election next year.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not necessarily talking about that.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: But whenever the next general election comes,
32:18
SPEAKER_00: what do you think should be the number one priority for the SNP?
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Should it be the question of independence or should it be something else?
32:26
SPEAKER_01: Independence will always be at the front and centre of
32:30
SPEAKER_01: the Scottish National Party's policies and programmes.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really matter when the next election is held.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: For my own part, I'll offer my opinion to your listeners, your viewers.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: I think Andy Burnham would be very ill-advised to go to the country next year,
32:49
SPEAKER_01: whether it's the spring or the autumn.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: He needs time to make a difference as the Prime Minister.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: His policies need time to bed in and demonstrate that they can make a difference.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: So if I was Andy Burnham, I would be certainly thinking about at least 2028, maybe even 2029.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't really matter what the shape of the next parliament is.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: It's not about that.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: What it is about for us in Scotland is persuading our neighbours,
33:17
SPEAKER_01: our friends,
33:18
SPEAKER_01: even our opponents,
33:19
SPEAKER_01: that actually independence for Scotland will make a huge difference,
33:23
SPEAKER_01: the difference, in terms of their daily lives.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Seamus Logan.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Pleasure to speak to you.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Order, order.