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Our 100th Episode! Celebrating 75 Years of the TTI-TxDOT Partnership · Thinking Transportation: Engaging Conversations about Transportation Innovations

• 0:14
  Allan Rutter: Howdy, everyone. Welcome to Thinking Transportation, conversations about how we get ourselves and the stuff we need from one place to another. I'm Allan Rutter with the Texas A&M Transportation Institute. I'm gonna depart from my normal attitude of hosting humility to toot our own horn a bit . Because this is episode number 100 for us here at Thinking Transportation. Now I've been your host just for the past six months, but TTI has been podcasting for four years since our first episode released on February 12th, 2021. In these 100 episodes, we've talked with 59 of my researcher colleagues, and 18 transportation leaders outside our organization. On behalf of all of us at TTI, I wanna thank all of you out there for downloading and listening through these four years. For our 100th episode of the Thinking Transportation podcast, we have two very special guests. Marc Williams , the executive director of the Texas Department of Transportation, and Greg Winfree, the agency director of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute. Marc joined TxDOT more than a decade ago and has been executive director since June 2021. Marc is also chairman of the Council on Rail Transportation at the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. Greg Winfree has been TTIs agency director since December 2016. Greg joined TTI from the U. S. Department of Transportation, where he served as assistant secretary for research and technology. So, no pressure for me as I'm visiting with the head of my agency and the head of TTIs largest research sponsor. The good news for our listeners is, these two transportation leaders are not only smart guys, but very good dudes. Welcome to you both .
• 2:05
  Greg Winfree: Thanks so much, Allan, and a great pleasure to be here with you, Marc.
• 2:09
  Marc Williams: Same. Looking forward to our conversation here today.
• 2:11
  Allan Rutter: So this year, TTI celebrates our 75th anniversary, having been created in June 1950 by the Texas A&M College System to do highway research for, and on behalf of, the state of Texas and the State Highway Department. Now, the Texas Highway Department was created by the Texas Legislature in 1917. In 1991, the legislature renamed the agency the Texas Department of Transportation, or TxDOT. Now, while the names have shifted, the relationship between TxDOT and TTI has remained consistent. Why don't you two talk a little bit about the connection between the department and TTI in general and how our two agencies have worked together.
• 2:56
  Marc Williams: You know, when you think back to the origin of TTI with individuals like Gibb Gilchrist and Dewitt C. Greer, and it was their partnership in many ways that helped to establish that foundation. Both Gibb Gilchrist and Dewitt Greer were former agency heads for the original State Highway Department, and Gilchrist went on to be the first chancellor of Texas A&M. And Dewitt Greer had a long tenure in history as the agency head with the Texas Department of Transportation; eventually became commission chair. Too. But it was really that partnership that I think put the seeds of the relationship that we enjoy, even to this day between the Texas Department of Transportation and the Texas A&M Transportation Institute--a partnership between both of our agencies really oriented and fostered on addressing a lot of the most critical needs that we face in our industry. And those needs have changed over time. But, you know, as I just think about the connection, the word that certainly comes to me is partnership.
• 4:02
  Greg Winfree: And certainly from, you know, where we sit here at TTI, it was a stroke of genius with those founders that you referenced, Marc. But this is literally one of the first instances of a recognition that the inherent talent and expertise resident in institutes of higher education work closely with the asset owners and the folks that need to get the job done on behalf of their respective states in building out the transportation network. So, the fact that this goes back to the very early days of those technologies, when they started to become professionalized, really was a stroke of genius. And you know, kind of the history is, most of the work originally had been done by academic researchers in the College of Engineering; and then the Board of Regents looked and said, you know, we need to streamline this process and make it more efficient in how it works with, at the time the Highway Department and now TxDOT. So that was the whole cloth that TTI was created from. We're thrilled that we have our own staff, but even more thrilled that we still have strong relationships with the College of Engineering. You know, education is at the core of our mission as part of a land-grant institution. So the fact that, you know, we still work closely with those folks who are teaching the next generation of professionals as well as executing in helping an organization as significant as TxDOT execute its mission, really has been tremendous.
• 5:31
  Marc Williams: Yeah, I think back to my career and my engagement with TTI--I started out as a research assistant there in graduate school at TTI. And so I feel like I have had the perspective of being able to see and appreciate the unique relationship that our agencies have. And I think it's really because of that close relationship, there's oftentimes an interchange of personnel. Obviously, you all work very closely with us on the research initiatives that we fund and support with you all, but I think that really is what has led to the success that we've seen in research and innovation that not only has impacted our agencies in the state of Texas, but it's had national, and even worldwide impacts when it comes to things like safety, highway design, structural design, and now with some of the new innovative technologies and areas that we're looking at that I'm sure we'll get a chance to talk about. You know, this partnership goes far beyond our two agencies in terms of level of impact.
• 6:37
  Greg Winfree: Absolutely.
• 6:38
  Allan Rutter: So let's talk a little bit about, what do you see as some of the most promising new developments in our research efforts together? What are the things that folks can get excited about?
• 6:49
  Greg Winfree: Well, you know, certainly from TTI's perspective, Marc and his senior leadership team had the tremendous foresight to really start an initiative to infuse technology. And it's the broadest sense of technology, but bringing innovation to all 25 TxDOT districts. And the reason it was a brilliant stroke is that, when you put the broad brush on it, what works in Yoakum district is not gonna be the same thing that works in Houston, is not gonna be the same thing that works in the Pharr District. So, just the fact that there is a top line --and if you use an NFL perspective, a head coach that said, look, this is what we're gonna do from a team perspective--it tells, you know, the folks that are responsible for executing in the districts what their mission is. But it's up to them to determine what is the appropriate innovation, what is the appropriate technology that's gonna benefit their region. So taking that approach really has been very well thought out and we're pleased to be a partner in that regard.
• 7:51
  Marc Williams: We certainly appreciate TTI's role in that with us. And I think one of the great things about your organization, Greg, is that you all aren't just, you know, hole up in the academic towers there in College Station--while it's a great place, love it, --you all have staff and offices around the state. You all are engaged in those districts and working alongside them in these areas. You know, I'm so blessed that we get to work in this era of transportation because, you know, you mentioned the technological innovations that are going on right now. We think about automation, automated vehicles that, you know ... watching outside my window here in Austin, you see 'em drive by every 5 or 10 minutes. And digital infrastructure and communications technology and now artificial intelligence and machine learning. We've got a rapid, rapid pace of change going on in our industry. And we have to collectively keep up with that pace of change and be fully engaged as an organization in looking at where these new technologies are taking us, where we've got applications throughout all of our business lines and all of our geographic areas of the state. And, you know, we really do rely very heavily on TTI as part of that partnership to help us stay, one, up to speed with the pace of change in innovation, but also to seek out and validate and identify those opportunities for application across what we do as an agency to, again, at the end of the day, make things better in our industry, make things better for those who rely upon and use our transportation system. And TTI has just been a valuable asset for us in that area.
• 9:44
  Greg Winfree: No , we greatly appreciate that. And, Allan, Marc really touched on an important distinction. You know, there's the tremendous brain trust that our institutes of higher education that work on basic and exploratory research, we wouldn't be where we are as a society without those advancements. But TTI's sweet spot is in applied research, and I think one of the reasons that the partnership works so well is that TTI researchers roll their sleeves up and get out in the field right next to their TxDOT partners and sponsors. And that's invaluable because, you know, we are practicing our disciplines in the field in real time and working with TxDOT to make a difference. And that's just a tremendous opportunity from our perspective.
• 10:31
  Allan Rutter: I think one of those examples of how that works its way out is over the last 10 years or so, as oil and gas production have increased in the state, TTI has worked with TxDOT on how to keep up with and respond to the challenges that are associated with that in South Texas. About 10 years ago, it was more a matter of what are we gonna do to keep up with the pavement impacts of all this truck transportation on farm-to-market roads that weren't designed for that. I remember our folks helping the district and the folks in Austin think about how to adjust and adapt to the changes with innovative approaches to pavement maintenance and pavement design. In the last five years in the Permian, we've done a lot together, particularly with the Odessa District, on applying innovative technologies on traffic analysis to help the Odessa folks adapt to urban levels of traffic on a rural infrastructure network. And to find ways of increasing transportation safety for all the thousands of people who work out there. It shows our ability to work with folks at a regional level and to apply different kinds of technologies to situations and problems that exist on those regional basis . Anything in response to that?
• 11:52
  Greg Winfree: Oh, absolutely. You know, and you hit the nail on the head when we were talking about innovation and technology being applied in the different districts around the state. And you've heard me out on the stump speeches, Allan, say that TTI does everything from pavement materials through flying cars and out in the Permian Basin, out in the Odessa District, that's exactly what we did. We worked on advanced technologies for something that many folks would think of as 20th Century developments with pavement and materials, whether it's asphalt, whether it's concrete, right? Those are kind of longstanding infrastructure that we've had. But there are tweaks, there are innovations, there are new materials that could impact performance in the field. So one district may be focused on that, but another, maybe in the Dallas region, they're looking at advanced air mobility and how do we move people in low-altitude flying drones, if you will. So that covers the breadth of where TTI is impactful, but that also covers the breadth of what we're talking about when we look at the different needs for the districts and the regions around the state.
• 12:58
  Marc Williams: Yeah and, you know, one of the hallmarks of our partnership has been how periods and instances of crises and problems have led us to work together to bring innovation and solutions. And that not only happens in our relationship, that's kind of been the hallmark of innovation throughout the history of our nation. But you know, in the early days, particularly in the Sixties and Seventies--with the severe impacts we were seeing in roadside safety and deaths on what was a growing highway system and a growing dependence on roads--and TTI and TxDOT working together on things like breakaway sign technologies that was born out of that period of crisis. And you talked, Allan, about some of the challenges that we have faced in the Permian area as we've seen rapid development of oil and gas out there. And again, serious safety challenges, significant maintenance issues. That too, I think, has been a modern day example of our two agencies coming together and identifying out of those challenges, innovation, and, importantly, solutions. And we're seeing results. The Odessa District, which was home to the vast majority of the oil and gas production activity in our state, really saw a significant decline this past year --it was in 2023--in their safety and fatality rates. And , uh, I think and believe that a lot of that is thanks to the investment and the innovation that we've brought to bear in that area. You know, you don't know who those individuals are, but we know we've saved lives because of the efforts that we have collectively put into a large range of issues around the state, the Permian and the oil and gas area being one of those recently.
• 14:47
  Allan Rutter: Well , lemme shift a little bit to talking about how we tell the story of how new transportation dollars have been invested in the state. Now, while the motor fuels tax hasn't changed in Texas since 1991, the legislature in Texas, voters in 2014 and 2015 authorized new funding into the state highway fund, which now amounts to more than $15 billion for the upcoming biennium. Now Marc, your work in AASHTO brings you in contact with many state DOT leaders whose construction programs are primarily funded with federal formula dollars. What does it mean for your agency and Texas drivers that TxDOT has broader state funding resources than other states?
• 15:30
  Marc Williams: Well, that's very important. That's a responsibility and a vote of confidence that we don't take lightly. And we certainly have an obligation to steward those resources well and to put them to use. And one of the messages that we've consistently heard from our legislature is to execute and deliver. We hear that from our commission as well. And we've done that. We have , uh, been able to successfully increase our lettings by well over 30 percent in the past couple of years. And as a result, we're putting more pavement on the ground and making investments around the state. You're seeing those resources be put to use. And I would argue that for us as an agency too , and the outcome of that investment. And I think TTI has helped us demonstrate and prove this up in some of the partnership and the work that we do together. You know, Texas takes a lot of pride in the fact that we are one of the fastest-growing states, the fastest in terms of the number of new Texans every day. We add between 1,300 and 1,500 new Texans a day, close to about 800 new jobs a day, you know, just based upon some of the latest statistics. And that doesn't happen without the infrastructure to support and foster that growth and development. And that infrastructure comes in a variety of ways, but I would argue none more apparent than the transportation system that pretty much every Texan uses or relies upon every day . And it's those resources that we put to use that help to foster that economic growth that's so important for our state.
• 17:13
  Allan Rutter: It strikes me, Greg, one of the things about that state funding, it helps leverage federal formula funds for planning and research and how TTI works with both TxDOT divisions and districts. You want to explain a little bit about how TxDOT's financial position allows us to help them ?
• 17:33
  Greg Winfree: No , absolutely. It's a tremendous asset and well thought -out by the state. Just to touch on the point Marc was making... In my tenure, I recall a thousand people a day moving to this state. Then it was 1,100 and now we're at 1,300 to 1,500. And I'll just paraphrase a statement that the governor made. You know, folks are coming to the state, they're not bringing water with them, they're not bringing electricity; and in what we do, they're not bringing access to mobility or roadways. So having that fund to be able to tap into, to build out the infrastructure, to not just improve, but to give folks a quality of life that they anticipate and expect from a state like Texas is the wisdom of the voting behind those two funds from a state level. Now, that also pivots nicely because the federal dollars that the state gets--and I would be remiss if I didn't recognize the fact that Texas is known as a donor state --meaning we collect more from the taxes from the federal trust fund, etc., Than we get back once it's distributed back to the 50 states. So that's always been a sore topic, but Prop One and Prop Seven help fill those gaps and help round out the availability of funding so that the appropriate planning can take place; and work with TxDOT so that their mission and their projects are prioritized properly, whether it's regionally, whether it's by population or whatever other consideration, right? Because we have as much equity in the rural parts of the state as we do in the urban parts. So getting that right from a planning perspective is where the federal dollars really provide that level of assistance. But rounding that out with the state investment really puts us in the lead with respect to our mission in fostering mobility in this great state.
• 19:28
  Allan Rutter: So, one of the things TTI has been working with TxDOT is to provide information to the five members of the Texas Transportation Commission and tell the story about what kinds of projects are being delivered with TxDOT's annual letting schedules and how those projects are making a difference. Marc, what can you tell us about how we're working together on initiatives like the Clear Lanes project, and telling the story about what difference those investments are making?
• 19:55
  Marc Williams: Sure, Allan. You know, the Clear Lanes initiative, you know... We were talking about the population and the economic growth in Texas and, you know, one of the outfalls of that is increasing congestion levels and more traffic on our roads. And much of that is concentrated in our major urban centers around the state, Houston and the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex and Austin and San Antonio. And one of the initial calls of both Governor Greg Abbott and Transportation Commission Chairman Bruce Bugg was to target resources to address those most congested areas of the state. And so that was what was the genesis behind the Texas Clear Lanes Initiative was-- to have a focused effort, a coordinated and ongoing effort, sustained effort to address those areas. And so we brought early on TTI into that effort as a partnership. TTI has been, again, nationally known for the work that you all have done in the Urban Mobility Report. And then in Texas, in the analysis of what we refer to as the top 100 most congested roads in Texas, that report comes out every year. And so nobody was really better positioned to help us understand congestion and craft a strategy and a plan and a program than TTI. And so your agency has helped us to sort of get our arms around, you know, where are these most congested areas, what does that mean to kind of ground truth what we're talking about with congestion and to provide, you know, some objective analytics behind that that can guide our commission's effort to prioritize the funds that they can devote to this initiative and to make decisions on how and where we develop projects and initiatives to address congestion. And then also going back and helping us look back and to say, "Hey, are we making an impact and are we seeing benefits from these investments?" And TTI has been able to do that and demonstrate that, yes, even over the last several years as VMT has increased, we've seen declining congestion levels in our state and in some of these most congested urban areas. Nobody's gonna argue that congestion has gone away. It's still very much there, but we are seeing not only a good plan and approach, but then also being able to go back and validate, are we having an impact and having results? And TTI h as been essential for that in this initiative.
• 22:28
  Allan Rutter: Now , Greg, one of the things that Marc just mentioned was the work on our annual mobility report, which we have to thank Marc and TxDOT as one of our major sponsors for that work today. But it also talks about how we track congestion in metro areas around the nation. Tell our listeners a little more about that report and how TTI has been adding new technologies into congestion measurement over time.
• 22:52
  Greg Winfree: That's a great question, Allan. It is a document that is met with great anticipation and trepidation. So, elected officials, obviously that's the kind of thing that they scurry to read because they wanna see where they rank and they want to , you know, be able to look at neighboring vicinities and point the finger . So there are some competitive jealousies amongst elected officials, but for the folks that run organizations like Marc's that are responsible for managing, or at least planning in advance on how to manage issues like congestion, it's extraordinarily important to have objective data and science tools. And that's the hallmark of what TTI produces. And that's why that report both nationally and at the state level are so eagerly anticipated. It's a great tool from a planning perspective, as Marc pointed out, to prioritize where those dollars go. You know, there are some areas if you look at the list over time, that routinely stay in the same spaces, right in the same places. And cities like Atlanta and New York, LA, Houston are always identified as congestion choke points in the technologies and the approaches to address that become top of the list for those folks that are engaged with respect to asset management and managing mobility across our states . So we're just thrilled to be able to be, again, an objective provider of data and science tools. We're pleased that it's resonated nationally. Our annual mobility report, as you know, Allan, is usually picked up by national media. USA Today always has a prominent feature with that report. So congestion is/are the kind of issues that are literally rubber hit the road issues. These are issues that every American deals with, they're top of mind. If they're not top of mind, they're reminded every rush hour. And these are the issues that ring legislators' phones off the hooks. So it's important for all of us to keep moving the ball forward with respect to trying to find solutions. Whether it's through the infusion of technology or other approaches with respect to monitoring, we take advantage of new technologies, relatively new like Bluetooth (anonymous Bluetooth counting), sensors in roadways and modern vehicles produce four terabytes of data a day. And we've been saying that's about 4,000 volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica. So that's a lot of data that's out there and mining that data, finding it to get actionable information, is where organizations like TTI come in to get those objective data tools that folks like Marc and his team rely upon.
• 25:47
  Allan Rutter: Yeah . One of the things, Greg, you just mentioned, and we talked a couple of minutes ago about the Texas Legislature, who asked voters to authorize some new transportation funding 10 years ago. We are now in the midst of the biennial Texas legislative session, which got under way in mid-January. We have new legislators, a new house speaker, changes in committee leadership, new to the post, but not certainly new to the legislature. Long time state rep Tom Cradock , who served as Texas House speaker from 2003 to 2009, will now be serving as the chair of the House Transportation Committee. House leadership has also created a new Subcommittee on Transportation Funding. Now, in the early part of the session, what kinds of subjects do legislators want to talk to you two about? What kind of committees ask for your attention early?
• 26:36
  Greg Winfree: I'm gonna let Marc start with that one. .
• 26:38
  Marc Williams: Well, you know, that is very front and center to us right now. You know what we hear from them? You know, in many ways it's, there's a lot of consistency expressing their needs, local issues that they're seeking solutions for wanting to understand opportunities for funding to deliver on and execute on projects to address those needs. And so, you know, you consistently hear that every legislative session, but some of the themes that we've probably seen a bit more emphasis on this last legislative session, and I think we're seeing this carry forward into this current legislative session, is more of a focus on some of the multimodal elements associated with transportation, particularly related to freight and goods movements. The legislature last year put in $400 million for a ship channel improvement and revolving fund to address our ports, and then another $200 million for investments into capital projects in the ports themselves. They also allocated a total of $200 million on the General Aviation side. And that was an increase of about 50 to $60 million over what they've historically authorized in terms of just state and federal funding. And now this legislative session, we're certainly having conversations and hearing from the legislature about the needs to continue to sustain investments in ports and airports. But we're seeing a lot of interest in what we can be doing to support rail investment, particularly opportunities for grade separations and support for shortline railroads. And continuing to have conversations about what are the needs associated with transit, particularly our urban and rural transit systems that rely very heavily on transportation. And then you mentioned, Allan, the subcommittee on transportation funding on the House side, a permanent subcommittee that's been established that Terry Canales out of the Valley, who's chaired house transportation before, he will be the chair of that subcommittee and beginning to have the conversation about, well , what level of funding do we need to be thinking about going forward as a state to continue to make sure that we maintain our competitive position when it comes to our transportation infrastructure and the ability to move people and goods and products and foster that economic development that I talked about. So those are some of the themes that we've heard and that I think will continue to play out as we go through the legislative session this spring.
• 29:10
  Allan Rutter: Greg, why don't you talk a little bit about both some of the themes you're hearing and which committees do you hear from early and which committees do we hear from later in the session?
• 29:19
  Greg Winfree: You know, as part of the A&M University System, right, there are 19 system members. So our first important role is to appear before Senate Finance and the House Appropriations Committee, just as an overarching review of who Texas A&M is and how its constituent members operate and, frankly, what their needs are. So that's kind of the top line, but from a substantive perspective, we testify along with TxDOT and DPS and the Department of Motor Vehicles before the House Transportation Committee. You referenced Representative Craddock . Now , being the chair of that committee, but also having Representative Canales heading up the transportation funding, is a great continuum of knowledge in that committee because he had been the committee chair for the past two biennia. So we're thrilled about that development. But to be perfectly frank, our relationship with the legislature really winds up... Because there was , there's a fair measure of new faces, new energies, every biennium. So for us, it started from scratch to educate folks on who TTI is and also, importantly, who we are not, and let them know what we do on behalf of the state, how we partner with TxDOT and other agencies across the state in this mission. So while there are important committee opportunities to present, I would be remiss if I left out the Article III Committee. So Article III has to do with educational institutions. And even though we're in transportation, we fall into Article III because we're part of the Texas A&M University System. So there are some oddities with respect to who we are, how we relate to the state writ large, that need to be constantly explained, re-explained, and elucidated, if you will, for for new members. So that's a constant challenge. A lot of it is in-office visits with legislators and their staffers, but to your specific question, the issues we hear tend to be personalized. I remember distinctly the last biennium, a representative from Houston asked me, why isn't there a highway-slash-interstate from Houston to Austin? And I was flummoxed . I said, "I don't know, but we will get on that and have an answer for you." But it's those kinds of issues that are top of mind for a legislator. I mean, another biennium, we had a question about sound barriers along a roadway that ran through her district. So the top-of-line issue, the pet issue that legislators have are the ones that often get presented to us, even if they're not necessarily in our bailiwick, they're just happy to have a transportation expert. And they know that if they present something, that we don't have an answer, that we'll get on the hotline to Marc and his team and get them the kinds of information that they need. So it's a little bit challenging, but it's always a great thrill to have that opportunity to educate folks in our capitol.
• 32:32
  Allan Rutter: So just as we talked about how the Texas Legislature is reflecting quite a few changes, we have a new administration at the national level. Congress has confirmed a new USDOT secretary, Sean Duffy . Greg, what have we learned about Secretary Duffy's priorities through his confirmation hearing? What do we know about what's important to him?
• 32:52
  Greg Winfree: That's a great question, Allan. And you know, there's one good thing about the Department of Transportation, and I heard this from both previous Republican and Democratic secretaries and deputies. They said, "look, there are no Republican or Democratic potholes, right?" These are the kitchen issues that all Americans deal with. As I mentioned earlier, these are the issues that ring their legislators phones off the hook. And from their perspective, this is low-hanging fruit that there ought to be an answer for, as Marc unfortunately has to deal with on a day-to-day basis. So, you know, we deal with those kinds of day-to-day issues for many folks, and that's what's important at DOT . So you normally don't see significant swings from a mission perspective. You certainly will have swings from a policy or priority perspective, but I was encouraged to hear from Secretary Duffy's confirmation hearing that they're still focused on environmental issues. They're still focused on ensuring that transportation doesn't have a negative impact on communities writ large. So those are, you know, the kind of important things. They're very much focused on congestion mitigation and other important issues, like I said, that hit folks in their homes and in their communities. So from a top-line perspective, I think the DOT mission is solid. The funding is there through the IIJA and through other funding mechanisms--and that's the bipartisan infrastructure law and others. So there is legacy funding, generational funding, if you will, that's available to address these issues going forward. But a lot more has to be sussed out over time as they get in and get comfortable in the seat and comfortable with the responsibilities, priorities present themselves, right? So clearly aviation safety is at the top of their list now with this overturned flight in Toronto and the tragedy coming out of National Airport. So you deal with things in real time , there are priorities from a global perspective, but at the end of the day, it's day-to-day, what are you dealing with? What are the hot button things that we need to get right, right now? And that's what they're grappling with.
• 35:13
  Allan Rutter: So Marc, you also, as part of that National Association of State DOTs, the secretary talked to you guys at the Washington briefing a week or so ago. What did you hear from him?
• 35:23
  Marc Williams: Well, certainly he was coming into that meeting at the time, shortly after the response to the tragedy that Greg referenced at Reagan National Airport. And then shortly after that, the crash as well in Philadelphia. And, you know, that was Secretary Duffy's second full day on the job when that tragedy occurred. And his agency obviously was very key to the response on that. And so that has been an area of focus, and he talked about some of those issues with us. But as far as his conveyance of his priorities and what they're doing with the USDOT, you know, they're looking really hard--and I think we're seeing this right now at rethinking and even restructuring some of the operations within the USDOT and the Federal Highway Administration. I think that they believe that that's the mission that their administration has been tasked with by the voters, is to kinda re-look at the federal government and seek out opportunities to streamline or make that more efficient. He also talked about and has discussed re-looking at that state and federal partnership and understanding that the Federal Highway Administration, USDOT are there to help support the work that the states do to deliver the transportation program. And you know, by and large, FHWA doesn't build any roads. It's the states that do that--some exceptions with some of the national lands--but 99.9 percent of what goes on is delivered by the states. And I think he certainly appreciates that. He talked about re-looking at some of the investment priorities that have been set by USDOT and FHWA, and again, kind of looking at, okay, are we reflecting the most critical priorities that we have at the national level and at the local level? And then finally, delivery. At the end of the day, you have to be able to effectively and efficiently deliver on the projects and deliver the resources that you've been entrusted with. It's the same point of emphasis that we have at the state level. And so those were some of the themes that I certainly heard from Secretary Duffy. And when we had the opportunity to hear from him and meet him a couple of weeks ago. And you're gonna have to see how things begin to shake out. We'll have a Federal Highway administrator announced at some point in the future; they'll begin to kind of build out the team and over the coming months, you'll really begin to better see and appreciate the full breadth of initiatives that this administration is wanting to take on and deliver with USDOT. And so we have to continue to be engaged with them--both TTI and TxDOT are doing that at various levels--and to ensure that as they're building out these priorities that they are adapting to and reflecting very importantly the needs that we see within our state here in Texas.
• 38:15
  Allan Rutter: So, some of those subjects we just mentioned, and when Greg talked about the infrastructure law, which expires in 2026, one of the things we've seen is, the new Congress has had a lot of congressional hearings to talk about reauthorization and what that looks like. Marc, in our final minutes, how are state dots preparing to engage in that upcoming reauthorization? How do you guys collectively communicate to members of both houses?
• 38:43
  Marc Williams: You're right. There is certainly a lot of enthusiasm and effort by members of Congress, particularly the chairs of those two respective committees on the House and the Senate side, to really jump in with both feet and start this process of reauthorization of the Federal Surface Transportation bill--which is so important to what we do as an agency and certainly impacts what you all do at TTI--that guides the federal funding that we rely upon for a significant portion of what we do as organizations. And so, whenever that process begins, we work very hard to be engaged not only with our own congressional delegations, but also with those offices of responsibility in Congress--the Senate Environment Public Works Committee, and the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee--to help emphasize the needs that are important to Texas and that are important as a state. And we also engage with people like AASHTO, the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. And so, you know, one of the points that we emphasize is the impact that inflation has. While we saw a significant increase in funding through the IIJA, the last reauthorization bill, that increase has been largely eroded, if not, even, we're in a deficit from the buying power at the federal level because the highway cost index has grown by 62 percent in the past four years, which is just a historical increase that just--we've gotta have additional resources if we're gonna be able to keep up with and deliver what we need to. Also, very important to us is emphasizing formula funding that's predictable and that's fair to the states like Texas flexibility in that funding. And then going back to, you know, one of the things that Greg pointed out is, yes, we are in many ways a donor state . The current formulas don't reflect the growth that we've seen over the past two decades. And so, equity and fairness in those formulas and the appropriation of those funds to go to where the needs are now, not where they were 20 years ago, is an important emphasis as well that we're working hard to convey in our conversations.
• 40:56
  Allan Rutter: Greg, TTI and TxDOT are both part of the ITS America Board of Directors. Are there any specific technology issues that need to be addressed in service transportation reauthorization?
• 41:09
  Greg Winfree: That's a great question, now, and it also ties in to priorities for the department. One of the other things we were pleased to hear is Secretary Duffy focus on was a recognition for the need of a continued infusion of innovation and technology into the transportation slash mobility space. And that's tremendous. So what we've been engaging, particularly with our government relations team and our Washington, DC, office, but also a fair amount of shuttle diplomacy from College Station heading on into Washington to visit with legislators , to visit with committee staff, etc., to cement the importance of the research enterprise. There's a fair measure of uncertainty emanating from Washington around what is the role of university research, what is the value, you know, the minutiae--like indirect cost recovery and those sorts of things. Those are essential tools for universities and institutes of higher education to provide the backbone of the research. That, to be perfectly honest, the federal government does not have the bench strength to provide. So we are out visiting with every ear that will hear us and every office that will open their door to talk about the importance of university research, how it adds to the bottom line. It is a quiet asset, if you will, because it's not necessarily above the fold headlines for many folks. But those technologies, those advancements that are above the fold and that are top of line for most Americans, got there because of fundamental, basic, and applied research that advanced it. So we're out in front in ensuring that that message resonates in the halls of power in Washington.
• 43:02
  Allan Rutter: Well, finally, let me ask each of you a question we close each episode with. With the big challenges that you both face as agency executives, what motivates you to get up each morning to face those challenges? Marc?
• 43:15
  Marc Williams: Well, you know, first and foremost, you have to just love what you do. And I would go back to just my early days as a student at Texas A&M and the Civil Engineering Department. When I first walked in and got a job at TTI, I really gained an appreciation and a love for what we can do in this transportation field to impact the lives of so many people and to apply the engineering and the analytics and just the capabilities that our agencies bring to bear to really do things effectively and more efficiently. And so, one, it's just the love for being able to enjoy and do what we get to do. And then I go back to what I talk about early on, and it's the legacy that we enjoy with our two agencies, with the history of our two agencies and just the challenge and the responsibility to steward that going forward. So that certainly is something that drives my motivation, but certainly something that I enjoy about the relationship that we have with our two agencies.
• 44:10
  Allan Rutter: Greg ?
• 44:10
  Greg Winfree: Again, you know everything that Marc said, but I'm blessed to be in a role here at TTI with a 700-strong team of dedicated world-class professionals. And I tell them, I'm a servant leader. I'm not your boss. I work for y'all . So, my job is to hopefully create opportunities to invest in relationships, identify areas where we could be growing and expanding. But I tell them that TTI is the 700-strong people that make this place work. And I'm just extraordinarily fortunate to be in a role to help us all execute. Part and parcel of that, as Marc alluded to, is the legacy. You know, I have black-and-white photos in most instances of all prior six TTI directors dating back to June 24th, 1950 when we were stood up. And I like to think that those gentlemen are smiling at me every time I come out of my office for carrying the ball forward. 'cause I, you know, I tell our staff , you heard me say this, Allan, we stand on the shoulders of giants. It's our responsibility to put the institute in the best position so that those coming behind us can carry it forward. I mean, by definition, our tenure here or at TxDOT is temporary, right? There's a slot of time for our careers and then we have to turn it over to the next generation. So ensuring that they are prepared, they're educated, that's the brilliance of us having the ability to tap into the students here at Texas A&M to get those brilliant, bright minds into our pipeline so that when I walk out the door, at some point I can walk out with my head held high knowing that the next generation is going to take us to the next level. So it's those kinds of things that are really most meaningful for me.
• 46:04
  Allan Rutter: Well, that's great. Once again guys, thanks for being here. We really appreciate the time you spent with us.
• 46:10
  Marc Williams: Thank you, Allan. Appreciate it, Greg. Great discussion. Thoroughly enjoyed it today.
• 46:15
  Greg Winfree: Yeah, and thanks so much, Marc, for your time. Really appreciate it.
• 46:20
  Allan Rutter: So, Marc and Greg spoke about the challenges and opportunities associated with major changes in elected and appointed officials in Austin and in Washington, DC. I certainly join our guests in hoping that transportation can continue to be an issue with bipartisan support. Yet, this conversation gives evidence of one certainty amidst so much change, and it is this: that the 75-year relationship between the Texas Department of Transportation and the Texas A&M Transportation Institute is as strong as ever . Thanks for listening. If you liked what you heard or learned something, please take just a minute to give us a review, subscribe, and share this episode. And I invite you to join us next time for another conversation about getting ourselves and the stuff we need from point A to point B. Thinking Transportation is a production of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, a member of The Texas A&M University System. The show is edited and produced by Chris Pourteau. I'm your host, Allan Rutter. Thanks again for joining us . We'll see you next time.