Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Tears from tiny tot boy lead cops to cold blooded killer

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Tears from tiny tot boy lead cops to cold blooded killer · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want justice.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on
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Speaker 1: Fox Nation. A little baby found dead in a cornfield
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Speaker 1: ditch near Sioux Falls. Placenta, umbilical cord all there? The baby?
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Speaker 1: Was it dead? Was it left to die? I want
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Speaker 1: answers Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This
0:55
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for joining us here on
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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series Sex one eleven Triumph. Why would
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Speaker 1: anyone leave a baby's body or a living baby, placenta
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Speaker 1: and umbilical cord in a corn filled ditch. That's what
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Speaker 1: I want to know right now. Joining me an all
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Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back
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Speaker 1: together again. Former prosecutor now defense attorney Darryl Cohen, who
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Speaker 1: practices all over the US, joining me from the Atlanta jurisdiction.
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Speaker 1: Former special agent with the FBI, current star of Facebook
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Speaker 1: series Curse of Acacor Bobby Chicon. Karen Stark, New York psychologist.
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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karen Stark dot com. With
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Speaker 1: a C. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. An author of
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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Joseph Scott Morgan, genetic
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Speaker 1: genealogist known as the gene hunter. Cheryl A point. But
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Speaker 1: right now, to Christy Kwan with WCYB Bristol, Virginia reporter
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Speaker 1: joining us, I want to just start with how the
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Speaker 1: little baby was found. Take a listen now to our
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Speaker 1: friends joining us. He grad had just bought a different
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Speaker 1: vehicle and we were trying it out, and that's why
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Speaker 1: we were out in that area. We were turning around
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Speaker 1: and in an approach, and that's where we've seen the blankets.
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Speaker 1: And I just curious. You got the best of me.
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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it's because it's a
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Speaker 1: new blanket. It looked like a newer blanket and everything.
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Speaker 1: And but there's times where I wish I hadn't found him,
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Speaker 1: and there's other times where I'm glad I did. I
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Speaker 1: just wish I could have found him earlier, when he
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Speaker 1: was still alive, before he died. He never got a
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Speaker 1: chance to do anything, I mean, never got a chance
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Speaker 1: to live. And Wow, just in that very brief statement,
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Speaker 1: I learned so much. I learned. The little baby boy,
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Speaker 1: the infant, the newborn, was found by accident by someone
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Speaker 1: unrelated to the infant. I hear that there was a
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Speaker 1: brand new baby blanket. Someone had gone and bought a
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Speaker 1: brand new baby blanket and buried with the baby. That
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Speaker 1: tells me it's someone connected to the baby, not that
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Speaker 1: the baby was stolen from the hospital or from a
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Speaker 1: home birth. This is someone that cared to go buy
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Speaker 1: a baby blanket. You were hearing the voice of Argus
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Speaker 1: leader Lauren Townsley speaking to Lee. Let's but I want
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Speaker 1: you to take another listen to what Argus has to say.
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Speaker 1: The man who finds the baby did he just uh.
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Speaker 1: I have a lot of aliens for people like that
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Speaker 1: and things like that, and I just, like I say,
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Speaker 1: I just hope they could find a woman that did
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Speaker 1: that and put her away. And this is what's happening.
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Speaker 1: So but I think it's just the fact that I
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Speaker 1: followed him is probably the biggest reason that it's not
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Speaker 1: not at me so bad. Well, it means I don't
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Speaker 1: have to think about where that gal is anymore trying
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Speaker 1: to figure out who did this to him, And I'm
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Speaker 1: just happy all I can say. You know, Um, I've
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Speaker 1: seen a lot of dead bodies, and I've been to
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Speaker 1: a lot of homicide crime scenes, seen a lot of witnesses, victims, purps,
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Speaker 1: dyeing in the hospital. But you know what, dear Kohen,
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Speaker 1: former prosecutor now defense attorney, You never get used to it,
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Speaker 1: especially when it's never happened to you before. When you
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Speaker 1: come upon a dead body, Darryl, I mean with all
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Speaker 1: the cases we've prosecuted, certainly you've been on a homicide scene, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: you never get used to a dead body, especially a
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Speaker 1: baby's dead body. You could see it ten million times
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Speaker 1: and it does the same thing to you. You get chills,
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Speaker 1: you get sick, you get disappointed. You look at it
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Speaker 1: say this cannot be happening. I cannot be seeing what
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Speaker 1: I think I'm seeing, And you're an absolute, utter and
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Speaker 1: complete denial. It is one of the worst possible moments
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Speaker 1: of your life. And every time it happens, it happens
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Speaker 1: for the first time. It is horrible. There's no way
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Speaker 1: to explain it. There's no way to explain the feelings
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Speaker 1: that you have. You have to go through it, and
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Speaker 1: you don't want anyone else to ever go through it.
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Speaker 1: You know, you stated it perfectly, and to you. Bobby Chicone,
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Speaker 1: a former special agent FBI, and start on Facebook, Bobby,
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Speaker 1: I recall talking to you about a young girl who
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Speaker 1: went missing and you ended up overseeing, supervising a dive
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Speaker 1: effort in freezing cold tempts with a tent out in
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Speaker 1: the middle of a frozen lake and a hole cut
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Speaker 1: in the ice going down, with the divers going down,
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Speaker 1: and instead of bringing up the girl's body, they were
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Speaker 1: bringing up body parts in individual bags. And that's just
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Speaker 1: one of the many cases you and I have dissected.
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Speaker 1: But even for me, I never have gotten over seeing
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Speaker 1: a dead human body. It just something that's when you see.
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Speaker 1: For me, anyway, when I see a spider or a snake,
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Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna be fine, but there's something innately,
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Speaker 1: instinctively repellent. I back off immediately. And I had to
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Speaker 1: get over that with the twins, because when you see
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Speaker 1: a spider in the house, it's on you. Okay, you
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Speaker 1: gotta get it. So what I'm saying is there's something
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Speaker 1: in us it's instinctive when you see a dead body.
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Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. I guess I'll have
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Speaker 1: to go to the shrink on it. But Bobby, that
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Speaker 1: never goes away. Would you see a dead body much
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Speaker 1: less as a civilian seeing one? Yeah, no, it doesn't, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I recovered my first child in nineteen ninety six from
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Speaker 1: a quarry in West Virginia, and it's like it happened yesterday.
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Speaker 1: And over the next nineteen years running the FBI Dive program,
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Speaker 1: there are many other children that we were called upon
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Speaker 1: to recover. And you're right, any dead body, any homie
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Speaker 1: i'd seen, is horrific. But when you have to recover
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Speaker 1: a child, and me and my divers were literally the
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Speaker 1: first ones to put our hands on that child. Uh,
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Speaker 1: since the killer, who who deposited you know, who dispose
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Speaker 1: of the body? UM and bringing that that child back
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Speaker 1: to the parents and back to the corner vote of
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Speaker 1: van Um. It never goes away. I'm long retired now
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Speaker 1: and I still, you know, get help with dealing with
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Speaker 1: the after effects of so many different meeting their violent
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Speaker 1: ends from predators. UM and and and and I you
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Speaker 1: know the divers. You know, I used to care for
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Speaker 1: my divers and make sure they got the care that
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Speaker 1: they needed. UM. But but it doesn't go away, and
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Speaker 1: it it has you know, effects on you that you
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Speaker 1: need to monitor, You need to have outlet, you need
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Speaker 1: to have help dealing with because as human beings. We
8:41
Speaker 1: just aren't equipped most of the time to deal with
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Speaker 1: us on our own. And uh yeah, it's it's something
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Speaker 1: that doesn't go even when I read stories now like
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Speaker 1: us are getting involved with stories like this. Um, there
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Speaker 1: are minor triggers that I have to be aware of that,
8:55
Speaker 1: um that I have to use the tools that I've
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Speaker 1: been given in my toolbox to to deal with it.
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Speaker 1: What about it, Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean, you are
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Speaker 1: bill as a death investigator. When you go home with
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Speaker 1: your beautiful wife, does it stick in your mind the
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Speaker 1: dead body you handled that day, or one a year ago,
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Speaker 1: one or twenty years ago, or do you focus on
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Speaker 1: the here and now? Keep your head straight. In order
9:24
Speaker 1: to keep your head straight, you have to force yourself
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Speaker 1: to focus on the here and now. But the problem
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Speaker 1: is is that every death has a residue that hangs
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Speaker 1: with you for the remainder of your life and it
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Speaker 1: never goes away. Because for people in my field and
9:44
Speaker 1: medical legal death investigation, it's not just homicides, it's the
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Speaker 1: entire gamut. And many times we're the only people there
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Speaker 1: to even note that this person even existed. So you
9:56
Speaker 1: bear that burden, you know, when I talked young cops
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Speaker 1: and police academy, which I instruct you know, every year
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Speaker 1: three or four times. I tell them that you're given
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Speaker 1: a bag and for every death that you handle, imagine
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Speaker 1: every death as a one pound stone and you put
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Speaker 1: it in that bag and you carry it with it
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Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. You can't forget it.
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Speaker 1: And so you have to develop those tools. But nothing
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Speaker 1: impacts you anymore than the death of a child. And
10:25
Speaker 1: that sounds cliche, but it's the honest to goodness truth.
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Speaker 1: It just you see promise there, you see the potential there,
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Speaker 1: and many times in a case like this, you know,
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Speaker 1: you just see these children that are discarded like so
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Speaker 1: much garbage, and it breaks absolutely breaks your heart. And
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Speaker 1: there's nobody you can really talk to about it that
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Speaker 1: really identifies with what you've seen. So yeah, it's haunting,
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Speaker 1: to say the very least time. Stories with Nancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: when you're talking about, especially as civilian, suddenly finding a
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Speaker 1: dead body, that's what we're talking about right now, the
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Speaker 1: discovery of a child's dead body. Take a listen, not
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Speaker 1: just a child, an infant. Take a listen now to
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Speaker 1: Sioux Falls Police pressor that area of Sioux Falls, which
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Speaker 1: is now deep and residential. As you can see by
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Speaker 1: the photo. At the crime scene was a field approached cornfield.
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Speaker 1: As they were just driving this vehicle. They turned around
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Speaker 1: them that approach and they saw one looked like just
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Speaker 1: some blankets in the dish. They decided to get out
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Speaker 1: and inspect them and found a deceased baby. The investigators
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Speaker 1: were really diligently during that time. However, they did not
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Speaker 1: have anything that we have today as far as DNA
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Speaker 1: technology and the advances that we have today. They ran
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Speaker 1: out of leeds very quickly. There's some few phone calls
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Speaker 1: that came in. They were followed up to a woman
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Speaker 1: answering the door, hold the baby, or a woman answering
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Speaker 1: the door still obviously pregnant recently. Got no tips at
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Speaker 1: all that warranted anything that what the point us to
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Speaker 1: this family. The case never gets close. These don't go close. However,
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Speaker 1: it does go cold. Guys, you were just hearing the
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Speaker 1: detective Michael Webb's speaking about an infant boy found in
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Speaker 1: a ditch. Let's go straight out to our reporter joining
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Speaker 1: us from WCYB Brustol, Virginia Kristin, Kwan Kristin, thank you
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Speaker 1: so much for being with us. Let's just start with
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Speaker 1: the discovery of the body. People found the little baby
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Speaker 1: while out test driving a car and saw what looked
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Speaker 1: to beat blankets in a ditch. I'm really surprised they
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Speaker 1: got out and looked, because a lot of people just
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Speaker 1: keep on going. So let's just start at the beginning.
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Speaker 1: Christ and what happened right? So, I mean, namely, he
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Speaker 1: was test driving this jeep vehicle when he noticed that
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Speaker 1: wine colored blanket in the ditch near the cornfield, and
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Speaker 1: for some reason, for whatever reason, it just kind of
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Speaker 1: seemed odd to him, So they pulled over the car
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Speaker 1: and that's when they discovered the baby in the blanket.
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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the condition of the
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Speaker 1: baby later named baby Andrew? Since no one knew who
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Speaker 1: the baby was, what can you tell me? Well, they said,
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Speaker 1: when they picked up the blankets and saw the baby,
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Speaker 1: that you know, they knew that the baby was dead,
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Speaker 1: and that it was still attached to the placenta, still
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Speaker 1: had it some bilical cord, and that tears were actually
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Speaker 1: frozen to its face. Just horrific tears frozen to the
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Speaker 1: baby's face. I gotta tell you. Even now, my twins
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Speaker 1: are twelve and nothing staffs me in the heart, like
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Speaker 1: seeing one of them cry. And when they were Kneeborn's
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Speaker 1: and I heard them cry. I don't know if it's instintive,
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Speaker 1: what it is. It just makes you run to them,
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Speaker 1: or it made me run to them. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to Sioux Falls Police pressor this is the police Chief
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Speaker 1: Matt Burns. On February twenty eighth, nineteen eighty one, SFP
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Speaker 1: units responded the area of where it now thirty third
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Speaker 1: and Secamore Avenue the report of a baby lying in
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Speaker 1: a ditch. Arriving officers found a deceased, full term newborn
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Speaker 1: male there, but no other identifying information. He had been
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Speaker 1: loosely wrapped in a bloodstained blanket and left all alone
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Speaker 1: in the cold, and autopsy revealed that the intert was
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Speaker 1: born alive and had been breathing, but it's slowly succumbed
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Speaker 1: to exposure. Detectives followed up on the available ease, but
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Speaker 1: there were not many, and they soon ride up as
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Speaker 1: our community came to griff with the horror of the
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Speaker 1: crime that was committed. No suspects of family could be identifact.
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Speaker 1: Saint Michael's Cemetery graciously offered to turn the baby. He
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Speaker 1: gave him the name of Andrew John Doe. You were
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Speaker 1: hearing Sue Falls police. That was the police chief, Matt
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Speaker 1: and Byrne speaking, And I just learned a lot from
15:21
Speaker 1: hearing the police pressor Joseph Scott Morgan death investigator. We
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Speaker 1: know the baby was loosely wrapped in a bloodstained blanket
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Speaker 1: that was new, left alone in the cold. But the
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Speaker 1: baby boy died not from strangulation or asphyxiation, died from
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Speaker 1: being out in the elements. All right. Number one, how
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Speaker 1: do you know the baby's born alive? Joe Scott Morgan?
15:51
Speaker 1: You know because, Nancy, I mean, I think one of
15:54
Speaker 1: the most horrific things that you just mentioned a second
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Speaker 1: ago is that the childhood fro and tears on the
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Speaker 1: child's face, and that gives us an indication that the
16:05
Speaker 1: child was alive. The child actually dwindled away in these
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Speaker 1: freezing cold temperatures. This isn't Sue Falls in February, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: this is a harsh, harsh environment. The child has nothing
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Speaker 1: but a couple of blankets wrapped around it, and the
16:21
Speaker 1: child was alive at that point in tom alive to
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Speaker 1: the point where the child was crying. You know, this newborn,
16:27
Speaker 1: the most fragile among us, is alive. One of the
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Speaker 1: things that they would have done at autopsy in particular is,
16:35
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be too graphic here, but
16:37
Speaker 1: when they do do the autopsy, they will check and
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Speaker 1: actually see if the child's lungs had actually been expanded
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Speaker 1: at that point. Tom given, yeah, to give an indication
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Speaker 1: as to whether or not the child had actually inhalated oxygen.
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Speaker 1: And this, yeah, what are you saying? Okay, what I'm saying?
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Speaker 1: What do you mean? How can you look at the lungs?
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Speaker 1: What do you see specifically speak regular people talk, not
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Speaker 1: doctor talk. Okay, what do you see when you look
17:15
Speaker 1: at that sliver of lung or the lungs as you
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Speaker 1: of them? Ye? Now, okay, first off, if we're looking
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Speaker 1: at the at the lung in total that is not effected, dissected,
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Speaker 1: or cut, we're looking to see if the lungs are
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Speaker 1: actually expanded, and that means they've taken air on the
17:36
Speaker 1: kind of like blowing up a balloon. Yet is flat, right,
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Speaker 1: And so if the child had been born to cease,
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Speaker 1: those lungs would not have been in this manner. It
17:46
Speaker 1: would have been like a deflated balloon, for instance, And
17:48
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest indicators. Back during this time
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Speaker 1: when this child was found, a standard procedure at autopsy
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Speaker 1: would have needed too, something that's called the float test,
18:00
Speaker 1: where you literally take a bucket of water, you take
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Speaker 1: these tiny, little precious lungs and how big or a
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Speaker 1: child lungs? Well, for this, yeah, probably about the size
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Speaker 1: of a fist with a newborn baby. I could give
18:15
Speaker 1: you specific weight, but I don't think that most people
18:17
Speaker 1: can identify with it. But if you think about it,
18:19
Speaker 1: if you'll bawl your fist up as tight as you
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Speaker 1: possibly can, that's going to give you an indication as
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Speaker 1: to the size of these lungs. And if the lungs
18:29
Speaker 1: are placed into say this big bucket of water, and
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Speaker 1: they float, so it's called a float test, that means
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Speaker 1: that the lungs have literally been aerated or filled with air,
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Speaker 1: and that gives you an indication that the child was
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Speaker 1: in fact alive. Do you talk like this when you
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Speaker 1: get home? Do you say things, the lungs were aerated?
18:46
Speaker 1: Do you say things yeah, yeah, actually stayed with you.
18:50
Speaker 1: Apparently it's kind of great vocabulary, by the way, So
18:54
Speaker 1: there you go. Well, as long as he's talking about
18:56
Speaker 1: dead bodies, I'm sure he has a lot to say. Okay,
18:59
Speaker 1: off that and onto this. Back to Kristin Kwan joining
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Speaker 1: us from Brustoll, Virginia w CYB. How did they know
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Speaker 1: the blanket was new? And I need to know that
19:11
Speaker 1: to go to my shrink, right, So they examined the
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Speaker 1: blankets and they could see that they were newer, and
19:18
Speaker 1: then they could see the other things that the mother
19:22
Speaker 1: actually had had left too, or what else was left
19:26
Speaker 1: with the baby. There were some clothing items, some women's
19:30
Speaker 1: clothing items that were left as well. Do you know what.
19:33
Speaker 1: I can't remember at this time what exactly they were,
19:36
Speaker 1: but they were women's items, you know. Very curious, very curious. Indeed,
19:41
Speaker 1: that women's clothing was also left there. It would almost
19:45
Speaker 1: indicate a double murder, that the mother had been killed
19:50
Speaker 1: as well. This little baby, dubbed Baby Andrew John Joe
19:57
Speaker 1: found dead with the plus still attached to the infant.
20:02
Speaker 1: Blood found on women's underwear, a shirt, and some Kleenex
20:08
Speaker 1: like material next to him. Now we have learned that
20:12
Speaker 1: from the police affidavit had been breathing but slowly succumbed
20:18
Speaker 1: to exposure. And I am quoting directly from the police
20:23
Speaker 1: chief Matt Burns. Detectives followed up the case goes cold. Hi, guys,
20:36
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Here, I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands
20:43
Speaker 1: of felony cases. I have covered literally thousands of cases
20:48
Speaker 1: of missing people, adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes.
20:54
Speaker 1: My question is what can we do about it. I
21:00
Speaker 1: don't want to just sit back and report on it.
21:02
Speaker 1: I want to take action, and I know you must
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Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy
22:01
Speaker 1: Grace Guys for those of you just joining us. Thank
22:05
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
22:08
Speaker 1: series Sex and one eleven, a baby boy is found
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Speaker 1: dead with tears dried on his face. Who would do that?
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Speaker 1: To renounce psychi psychologist Karen start, What does it mean
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Speaker 1: to you that this particular Cornfield ditch was chosen to
22:27
Speaker 1: discard the baby? Well, as you said, Nancy, there's no
22:31
Speaker 1: there's a good indication that whoever disposed of the baby
22:35
Speaker 1: lives close to the series, very familiar with the Cornfield.
22:39
Speaker 1: And then if you're talking about the clothes that were
22:42
Speaker 1: found along with the baby that sings the blanket, I
22:46
Speaker 1: would think either somebody there took the clothes from the
22:50
Speaker 1: mother because there's underwear with blood, whoever gave birth to
22:54
Speaker 1: the baby and buried them, you know, try to get
22:58
Speaker 1: rid of them along with the baby, or else the
23:01
Speaker 1: mother herself may have done that, somebody who has some feeling,
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Speaker 1: not enough to make sure this baby survives, but puts
23:10
Speaker 1: a blanket on it so there's a little tenderness there
23:14
Speaker 1: and gets rid of evidence so that no one will
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Speaker 1: know that this has occurred. Okay, I'm just to JD.
23:21
Speaker 1: You're the psychologist to Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense
23:25
Speaker 1: attorney practicing across the country. Daryl, have you noticed in
23:30
Speaker 1: cases you prosecuted and defended, because I have in cases
23:33
Speaker 1: I prosecuted, when someone takes the time to cover the face.
23:38
Speaker 1: I had one case where a girl murdered her mother.
23:42
Speaker 1: A nineteen ish year old girl murdered her mother and
23:46
Speaker 1: put a wick her basket over her head. All right.
23:52
Speaker 1: I've had other cases where if the person was killed outdoors,
23:55
Speaker 1: the body would be covered in leaves, just or a
23:59
Speaker 1: blanket or a newspaper or something. And that always tells me,
24:03
Speaker 1: And I don't know statistically why, I just know from
24:06
Speaker 1: experience that means the killer knew the victim. Because the
24:09
Speaker 1: random killer is not going to take the time to
24:11
Speaker 1: cover up the party. They're just going to get the
24:13
Speaker 1: hay out of there. Absolutely absolutely, it tells me that
24:18
Speaker 1: it was mom who And obviously this is more subjective.
24:23
Speaker 1: I'm just conjecturing more than anything else. As it was Mom,
24:27
Speaker 1: and she may have felt that she had to do
24:29
Speaker 1: what she did and she didn't know anything else to do.
24:32
Speaker 1: She was in a terrible position in her life, and
24:36
Speaker 1: because of that, she is in a terrible position in
24:40
Speaker 1: her life that means be true, But I don't know
24:43
Speaker 1: how you would compare that to dying alone and naked
24:46
Speaker 1: and the elements crying in a ditch. Oh, Nancy, this
24:49
Speaker 1: is horrible. I am not excusing anything she did. I'm
24:52
Speaker 1: trying to get into her head. And if I get
24:55
Speaker 1: into her head and feel like, maybe, just maybe she
24:59
Speaker 1: was I was thinking that she was a victim and
25:02
Speaker 1: she didn't know what to do. She had no money,
25:04
Speaker 1: she had no place to turn, nothing there. So I
25:07
Speaker 1: ask you about the baby, and now you're on the mom. Look,
25:12
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing about the right to choose, a woman's
25:18
Speaker 1: right to choose whether she wants to keep a baby
25:20
Speaker 1: or not. That's not where this is about. This is
25:23
Speaker 1: about murder. The baby was born alive. Now I'm not
25:29
Speaker 1: saying I am pro or anti abortion. That's not what
25:33
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about murder. And in case
25:37
Speaker 1: you didn't know it, Daryl Cohen, I'm against it. Take
25:43
Speaker 1: a listen to what Nancy. I'm against it. Two hungry
25:49
Speaker 1: did I think this woman, if she did what I
25:52
Speaker 1: think she did, is despicable. It's horrendous, and you will
25:55
Speaker 1: find her own special place at a horrible place. But
26:00
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get in our head how you believed
26:02
Speaker 1: in hail Daryl Cohen. Guys, take a listen to see
26:06
Speaker 1: falls police press or Detective Michael Webb speaking. We don't
26:11
Speaker 1: forget about these cases. We never do. And about ten
26:14
Speaker 1: years ago we started taking a different look on this
26:15
Speaker 1: and see what we can do given the advancements to
26:18
Speaker 1: technology and DNA to solve this case. It was a
26:23
Speaker 1: unique case and now we didn't have a family to
26:25
Speaker 1: work with, to talk to to assure them that we
26:28
Speaker 1: were doing everything we can for their family because no
26:31
Speaker 1: one came polar to this paving. Ten years ago, after
26:35
Speaker 1: talking with some cold case investigators across the country, we
26:39
Speaker 1: talked about the best way to obtain DNA and it
26:42
Speaker 1: would have to be from the baby himself. We learned
26:46
Speaker 1: through a President's DNA and issue for Unidentified Human Remains
26:50
Speaker 1: that the University of North Texas was under a grant
26:53
Speaker 1: and they could assist in this. We contacted them as
26:57
Speaker 1: well as the process of getting the baby's DNA, so
27:04
Speaker 1: we did Cortnago, Saint Michael Cemetery and I got in
27:08
Speaker 1: order to zoom zoom the Balio Andrew John done too.
27:13
Speaker 1: Christine kwan cyb Bristol, Virginia. The baby was given a funeral.
27:20
Speaker 1: I understand at Saint Michael's. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes.
27:25
Speaker 1: The community, I mean, obviously when they heard about this
27:29
Speaker 1: horrible thing, they kind of came together and just wanted
27:32
Speaker 1: to do something. And a bunch of people showed up
27:36
Speaker 1: for a baby that they didn't even know to give
27:38
Speaker 1: it a funeral. I'm curious with all of that outpouring
27:42
Speaker 1: of community empathy, no one knew of a woman that
27:49
Speaker 1: had been pregnant now suddenly wasn't Kristen at that time.
27:54
Speaker 1: No no one came forward to report a missing baby
27:57
Speaker 1: or they didn't have anything, And that's kind of one
28:00
Speaker 1: of the reasons that this case went cold. Joining me
28:03
Speaker 1: right now is a special guest. She is the so
28:08
Speaker 1: called Jane Hunter. Exactly what is that, Cheryl appoint? A
28:13
Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, Nancy. A genetic genealogist is someone who uses
28:20
Speaker 1: DNA that we get from direct to consumer DNA tests
28:23
Speaker 1: to be able to figure out familial connections. We are
28:28
Speaker 1: able to use these matches that we get from these
28:31
Speaker 1: companies that give us a list of our matches and
28:34
Speaker 1: we can find our shared answers the common ancestors in
28:40
Speaker 1: our lines, and we can build family trees to find
28:44
Speaker 1: the people we're looking for. To Bobby Jico and former
28:47
Speaker 1: special agent FBI, current star Facebook series Curse of Acacor,
28:52
Speaker 1: I'm just curious that the whole community shows up for
28:56
Speaker 1: the little baby's funeral Saint Michael's allow as a child
29:00
Speaker 1: to be buried there, but nobody comes forward and says, hey,
29:06
Speaker 1: I know so and so was pregnant, now she's not,
29:09
Speaker 1: and I never saw the baby. Nobody comes forward, Bobby,
29:13
Speaker 1: she con Yeah, it's very unusual. I think the investigators
29:16
Speaker 1: often use gatherings like that to develop sources who do
29:20
Speaker 1: exactly what you just described and come forward because sometimes
29:22
Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable or you know, you know, and
29:25
Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable coming directly to the police. But
29:28
Speaker 1: the police do go, or they should go to those
29:30
Speaker 1: gatherings to try to find someone in the community, because
29:33
Speaker 1: that's where the answers lie. Exactly where you just said,
29:36
Speaker 1: someone in the community must have known or should have
29:38
Speaker 1: known that that that that woman was pregnant and carried
29:42
Speaker 1: the term um. It's very difficult to hide a fact
29:45
Speaker 1: like that in a small community, so you would think
29:48
Speaker 1: that investigators would have scoured that that type of service,
29:51
Speaker 1: memorial service and try to find somebody you're talking about
29:58
Speaker 1: graveside funeral, steak out to see who shows up right,
30:02
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, sometimes that's that's where those people do congregate,
30:06
Speaker 1: and also the mom or the killer may be there.
30:25
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a little baby who dies
30:31
Speaker 1: of exposure in a ditch by a cornfield. How exactly
30:36
Speaker 1: do you die of exposure? Joseph Scott Morgan, I mean
30:39
Speaker 1: you're outside and you die. How does that happen? What
30:43
Speaker 1: the the how does the effect of being in the
30:45
Speaker 1: elements end up in death? Well, it's commonly referred to
30:49
Speaker 1: as hypothermia, which means your body temperature drops well below
30:55
Speaker 1: what is considered to be normal. You know, our normal
30:59
Speaker 1: body temper is ninety eight point six fahrenheit. Your body
31:03
Speaker 1: cannot maintain all of its systems if it drops, say
31:08
Speaker 1: two to three degrees below that level, and you'll see
31:13
Speaker 1: you'll see people begin to convulse, You'll see people begin
31:17
Speaker 1: to hallucinate. Now, you take that and that's an adult.
31:21
Speaker 1: You take that and you magnify that tenfold relative to
31:25
Speaker 1: a newborn, because they are so very fragible. Remember, Nancy,
31:29
Speaker 1: this child I still had the placenta and the umbilical
31:34
Speaker 1: cord attached. This child was alive, so there was some
31:38
Speaker 1: type of awareness here. The child is shivering, the child
31:42
Speaker 1: is going into shock eventually. And this is not I
31:46
Speaker 1: hate to tell you this. This wasn't a sudden death. Okay,
31:50
Speaker 1: this is a protracted, languishing event that took place with
31:55
Speaker 1: this child. This child would have begun to feel the
31:58
Speaker 1: effects as soon as this person deposited this poor little
32:02
Speaker 1: creature there in this ditch, in these blankets, and so
32:07
Speaker 1: it just kind of the icy fingers of death literally
32:10
Speaker 1: just wrapped their hand around this baby and it took
32:14
Speaker 1: it probably took an hour for the child to dye,
32:17
Speaker 1: I would imagine, and it would have been a horrific death.
32:21
Speaker 1: So explain to me to Cheryl the point joining us
32:24
Speaker 1: the gene hunter, genetic genealogist. So back when the baby
32:29
Speaker 1: was found in the corn ditch, I assume blood and
32:33
Speaker 1: tissues were taken. But how do you, without anyone to
32:37
Speaker 1: compare it to, how do you go about getting some
32:40
Speaker 1: type of a DNA match. It's like fingerprints, Okay, you
32:43
Speaker 1: find a fingerprint on a murder scene. And it's a
32:48
Speaker 1: great fingerprint, But who do you compare it to? You
32:52
Speaker 1: run it through APHIS, which is fingerprint database, nothing. You
32:58
Speaker 1: have to have something to compare it. Two. And then
33:02
Speaker 1: I suddenly catch Jackie Howard and I get her drink
33:07
Speaker 1: and I compare it, and then I find out it
33:10
Speaker 1: was her at the murder scene. But I had something
33:12
Speaker 1: to compare it too, Jackie. So with this baby's DNA,
33:18
Speaker 1: what do you compare it? Two? When you don't have
33:20
Speaker 1: a suspect Nancy from that crime scene, we actually had
33:25
Speaker 1: DNA from a baby and the mother's DNA from the
33:29
Speaker 1: articles of clothing that had blood on it, and that
33:33
Speaker 1: DNA with the new technologies that we have now, you know,
33:38
Speaker 1: it's very unlikely that the mother would have actually taken
33:42
Speaker 1: a direct to consumer DNA test. I doubt that happened,
33:45
Speaker 1: but the mother would have relatives that may have taken
33:52
Speaker 1: those tests. And when that happens, we can You meanlie
33:56
Speaker 1: ancestry dot com. The other day I said, forever twenty one,
34:00
Speaker 1: that's not a DNA datamah, but ancestry dot com and
34:06
Speaker 1: there are many other like that. One just happens to
34:08
Speaker 1: come to mind. You're saying that maybe one of her
34:11
Speaker 1: family members, if not her, did that, and now you
34:15
Speaker 1: can trace the infants DNA to that family member. Is
34:18
Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Yes, man, that's exactly what I'm saying.
34:21
Speaker 1: Family Tree DNA Ancestry dot com twenty three and me
34:26
Speaker 1: and as genealogist, As genetic genealogists, we use a site
34:31
Speaker 1: called jedmatch that we upload DNA to say I tested
34:36
Speaker 1: at Ancestry and you tested at family Tree DNA. Instead
34:41
Speaker 1: of testing at each company, we can upload to jedmatch
34:45
Speaker 1: and compare our results. And that is one of the
34:48
Speaker 1: sites that we use as genetic genealogists, and law enforcement
34:52
Speaker 1: uses to be able to find these of the DNA
34:55
Speaker 1: that was left at a crime scene. So if you
34:58
Speaker 1: love your DNA, let's just say ancestre dot com. Are
35:03
Speaker 1: you telling me that that is then uploaded without your
35:06
Speaker 1: knowledge to Jetmatch. No, ma'am, absolutely not. That has never happened.
35:12
Speaker 1: That is a voluntary voluntary upload. Awesome. I'm working, okay,
35:18
Speaker 1: Like I uploaded my own results there to find other
35:21
Speaker 1: matches who tested it, other companies, And again, your DNA
35:26
Speaker 1: code isn't shown. All we get is a list of
35:29
Speaker 1: people that you match. Interesting. I want you to take
35:33
Speaker 1: a listen now to Keloland Knees. Reporter Perry Great investigators
35:42
Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty one had the forensic foresight to
35:45
Speaker 1: say blood DNA from baby Andrew John Doe, so that
35:48
Speaker 1: if we do have a suspect that from later time
35:52
Speaker 1: we could match this blood tape. It gives that person
35:56
Speaker 1: and see whether they could be the possible or parent.
35:59
Speaker 1: That parent would emerge thirty eight years later through a
36:01
Speaker 1: series of DNA breakthroughs and dead ends. These cases are frustrating, disappointing.
36:07
Speaker 1: I think you got to learn you're going to have
36:08
Speaker 1: more failures and successes. The DNA search ramped up in
36:11
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine when Sue falls, Police work with
36:14
Speaker 1: researchers from North Texas University to examine evidence from baby Andrew.
36:18
Speaker 1: The problem in this case is the rules of DNA.
36:21
Speaker 1: We were checking a database against we didn't know who.
36:25
Speaker 1: Police enlisted the help of another lab in Virginia, as
36:28
Speaker 1: well as genealogy websites like ancestry dot com to piece
36:32
Speaker 1: together branches of a family tree. We're able to continue
36:35
Speaker 1: to build that family tree through old birth announcements, old
36:39
Speaker 1: marriage announcements and things like that. Homing in on suspect
36:42
Speaker 1: Teresa Bentis. Investigators conducted what's known as a trash poll
36:46
Speaker 1: last month. They took samples from a water bottle, core's light,
36:50
Speaker 1: beer can, and cigarette butts for the crucial DNA link
36:54
Speaker 1: that would lead to her arrest. Wow, did you hear
36:57
Speaker 1: that from cigarette butt? From a I think they said
37:03
Speaker 1: beer can, a water bottle. By going through her trash,
37:07
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, it's people would say, hey, hey, hey, wait, wait, wait,
37:11
Speaker 1: why did they test her cigarette butt, her beer can,
37:14
Speaker 1: her water bottle. If you abandon something, throw it in
37:18
Speaker 1: the trash or put it in your trash, that's too
37:20
Speaker 1: bad because cops can take that. There is no constitutional
37:25
Speaker 1: protection for your belongings unless they're in a place where
37:29
Speaker 1: you expect privacy, like your home, your car, your car
37:32
Speaker 1: trunk you're safe, you're whatever, or a box you have
37:35
Speaker 1: a suitcase in your trunk, that gets constitutional protections for privacy.
37:40
Speaker 1: But if you abandon something throw it away, that's fair
37:43
Speaker 1: game for police. Here's an example, Daryl. I remember when
37:46
Speaker 1: the Inquirer would go through, for instance, Elizabeth Taylor or
37:50
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson or whoever's trash, then they'd lay out, Oh look,
37:54
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor had ten points of chunky monkey, and that
37:59
Speaker 1: would be the article. It's abandoned and once it goes
38:02
Speaker 1: out to the street, it's fair game. So that's how
38:06
Speaker 1: the cops got ahold of her cigarette. But said beer
38:09
Speaker 1: cans exactly great, it was expanding a little more from you, Darrell,
38:14
Speaker 1: really all right, well, exactly means it was. She gave
38:17
Speaker 1: it up. It is no longer hers. She has no right,
38:21
Speaker 1: she has no right of privacy. It is gone. It
38:25
Speaker 1: is gone. It is gone. And that's helpful. So you know, Jack,
38:30
Speaker 1: you watch out where you throw all those beer cans. Um,
38:33
Speaker 1: So sheryla point. How did they hone in on her?
38:37
Speaker 1: So Nancy? Once they had this DNA sample in what's
38:41
Speaker 1: called a SNIF file, the genetic genealogists were actually able
38:47
Speaker 1: to UM through the DNA matches, find connections and build
38:53
Speaker 1: a family tree. And like UM, we use obituaries, We
39:00
Speaker 1: use different sites to find living people and it's basically
39:06
Speaker 1: an investigation of finding out who belongs in the family
39:10
Speaker 1: tree and got it. We look for suspects and find
39:15
Speaker 1: who they are. To Christian Kwain Kate wa n what
39:20
Speaker 1: has become of the mom, Teresa rose bent Us. So
39:25
Speaker 1: the mom, of course, was brought to the police station
39:30
Speaker 1: to do an interview, and the police affidavit, if you
39:33
Speaker 1: read it, has a lot of information at it about
39:35
Speaker 1: what she says, but basically she was arrested for that.
39:42
Speaker 1: The mom in this case, Teresa rose Bentus, now fifty seven,
39:48
Speaker 1: charged in the death of a baby found in a
39:51
Speaker 1: ditch thirty eight years ago. Police using DNA of cigarettes
39:56
Speaker 1: and beer cans to track back to Teresa ro has bentus.
40:01
Speaker 1: The reality this woman now charged in the death of
40:04
Speaker 1: a baby. Justice delayed, but not justice denied. Nancy Grace
40:11
Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend,