Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Multiple knockdowns finally finds peace and success - Shane Spurgeon

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Multiple knockdowns finally finds peace and success - Shane Spurgeon · Nightmare Success In and Out

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  What happens when he works here? Becomes your reality.
• 0:04
  Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
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  Welcome to the nightmare. Success in and out podcast,
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  where we explore a, how to overcome your fears.
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  And Nightmares is set yourself free.
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  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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  These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
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  humor but hopefully, you can come away with a nugget of
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  something that will help you knock down some of the prisons
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  you've built. It up in your own mind.
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  We're back, folks. I'm more success in and out.
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  You know, we come here to hear these stories about what happens
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  when your worst fear becomes your reality.
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  And I was talking to a buddy of mine who's been on this show and
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  he's helped so many people that I've run across here in the st.
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  Louis area and other places, Robert Riley.
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  And we were talking the other day and he said, you know,
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  Brenda of you have you reached out to Shane.
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  I said, I remember you talking about Shane Shane Spurgeon and
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  he said, yeah, he said you got Talk to this guy.
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  He's just one of those guys that just doesn't give up.
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  Doesn't give up. He said he's you know it's you
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  said your podcast is about hope it's about overcoming.
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  He said you know reach out to him.
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  He said I'll give you his number so we did and actually Shane and
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  I were just catching up here before we were getting on the
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  air and I think he's got quite a story.
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  So, Shane welcome in, appreciate you.
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  Thank you. And so yes, Shane Shane that
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  he's actually In the, the podcast studio.
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  So we don't have to do the talk through the computer.
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  So, that's a good thing, right? Yeah, it is.
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  He's good to go. He looks like a real radio guy.
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  Real podcaster. So shade you know you've shared
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  some of your story with me but take me back a little bit and
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  let everybody kind of get introduced to you.
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  What when Shane I was growing up what was life like for you and
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  growing up as a kid. You know, this is what I do want
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  to just start with in kind of lead into just to me and is I
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  was looking into some of your other listen, some of the other
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  podcasts reading some of the BIOS, I'm not sure if that's
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  even the right word, but I was reading into them and I'm like,
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  well, I don't have a business, I don't have this, I don't have
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  that, you know, and I'm like, Whether that's but that's my
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  struggle. Yeah, yeah better.
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  But that leads into like, I'm not good enough.
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  Like, who am I? I'm nobody, you know, I'm just
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  is that how you felt growing up as a kid.
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  So that leads into like that, that was that was my story.
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  That was you didn't negative beliefs about myself in, I kept
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  myself down. Yeah, I was My Own Worst Enemy,
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  I kept myself in my own self in prison.
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  Ain't ya know. So I tell a lot of people all
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  the time, you know, the time I didn't prison was was nothing
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  compared to myself, imprisonment is being trapped up in this
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  freaking head of mine, but we talked about people, everybody's
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  got prisons built up in their own mind.
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  It depends on what it is and how they get through it.
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  But everybody's got their own things that they go through.
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  And so you know I was sharing with some of the guys that my
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  network and you know I was like you know I'm doing this podcast
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  and I'm you know, it's it which is what I told you and they're
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  like but It. Stop measuring things with with
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  material. Yeah.
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  But that's how I was, you know, if I don't have the truck, if I
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  don't have the girl, you know, I'm Just a Nobody.
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  So, and again, you know, I think I heard you say it on another
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  podcast and that was, you know, to successful just being it
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  being free. Yes, you know, the mind and
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  things like that. And that's what we talked about
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  my sponsor and some other guys I shared with, you know, and it's
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  like yeah, but look where you are now.
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  Yeah, mentally spiritually, what?
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  She's had to get through and have the courage to step
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  through. They say it's still, it's still
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  a struggle. You know, I've been dealing with
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  those beliefs for 30-plus years, you know so.
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  Well everybody has things, you know, that's the thing.
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  You as long as you work on it and I, you know, getting better,
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  I'm curious. Like when you were growing up.
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  What was your like, your mom? Your dad siblings, what was
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  that, what was that environment? Like for you?
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  It was at a, was that a good environment?
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  Was it one that you you started feeling like, You know, I don't
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  fit. Yeah.
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  So, you know, I grew up in Jefferson County in Missouri and
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  grew up in. When I called the valley, I
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  always say, I live on a street, I lived on a street where I wish
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  every could could. Yeah.
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  You know, as 40 houses dead-end Road, it was all around us but I
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  was just parents are great. My dad was a truck driver so he
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  was only home on weekends, you know, on the road and they
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  wanted to come home and it's nothing against my dad, but it,
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  you know, like I was in trouble a lot.
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  Yeah. No, it's back in the ER, you
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  know, early 80s where, you know, ADD and ADHD and autistic and
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  all that stuff was nobody talked about the, your kids just hyper
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  right now. And that's what my problem was.
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  And I just could not get right, you know, so throughout school
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  it was you have a group of friends that you ran with some,
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  you know, just, you know, know because that that was, that was
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  part of the problem. You know, like my mother was
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  great that was great, we didn't have a lot of money.
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  Mmm. So I you know the clothes.
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  Or to school just I wasn't very, you know, cool.
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  You know, and so I was just kind of stuck in between all these
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  little crowds and in sometimes picked on, you know.
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  And so that's, that's where it all started.
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  And then just not feeling, just not, not feeling in place, and
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  it was even with myself, so you have siblings.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  I had a brother, and a sister, you know, great.
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  Where'd you fall into that? World was the oldest.
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  Are you the oldest? Okay?
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  Yeah. So younger brother and a younger
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  sister sister. Okay, there's three of you.
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  Yeah and you know it's a great just Riding three wheelers and
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  four wheelers on my life. You know.
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  And I got into baseball and that was my things and kind of your
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  Escape. Yeah.
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  It's a now I look back and I'm like okay I can see because when
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  I got on that field. Yeah I was, I became a prank, he
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  came, you know, like I'm good, this is where I'm good.
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  I and so I was me, you know, if you weren't good if you weren't
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  doing what I, you know, I thought you should be doing.
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  Yeah, no, I did like that that that's why I could shine and
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  then once I stepped off a field, It was okay.
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  I'm a nobody, you know, and I'm just not good enough and it's
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  like I said being in school and always being in trouble that's
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  where I could build that I created these beliefs about
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  myself and just staying in trouble at school.
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  You know, I'm over one year I think I had to spend like six
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  months outside of the principal's office.
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  That's what that's where my desk was.
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  That's where you were, you know, because like we don't know what
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  to do with, you know, and my mom, I remember one time, my mom
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  was like days, your teachers are passing you Because they don't
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  know what to do with you. Yeah you know like what can we
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  do? So she put me in Catholic
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  School. Yeah you know we're already
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  broken now. She's like I don't know what to
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  do. I'm willing to do this and I
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  went to Catholic school and and she's not the movies and nuns
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  could give me. Right?
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  Yeah. You know, and what was that like
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  for you? You know, I really don't
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  remember. I mean was that it had to be
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  ahead of you, huge adjustment, though, for kid.
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  What how old would you been when that happen?
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  So I do want to say sixth grade? Yeah, Michael Brown.
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  Yeah, 12 years old, 13 years old.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  So I went to a little private one, dared to middle school
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  there. And then I went on to st.
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  Pius, as a freshman and got there.
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  I'm on, it was good. Like I said, good at continue to
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  play baseball and I got on. I was a freshman on the varsity,
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  you know, and I didn't last the school year and I was expelled.
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  Yeah, and sold in a day. What kind of trouble are you
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  getting into Shane? What was it?
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  What was knocking around that, that incident.
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  I was with the female. Okay.
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  So and so I was expelled and then I went to I went on to Fox.
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  Yeah and from there that's where my my journey.
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  You know I found some people that like with you guys and we
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  drink start to skip school and you know, let's go to the mall
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  and shoplift about you know, stuff that that since I had a
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  kind of felt like he belonged with the crowd.
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  No, I got a crowd that I belong. They like me.
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  You know, like me. And that's where it all that's
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  and you weren't playing baseball anymore.
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  No, I quickly stopped. Yeah.
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  And you know did I did I stopped.
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  So what was the next step for you?
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  Next up with is quitting school. Yeah.
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  And just running running non-stop.
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  I was 17. I quickly moved out.
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  Yeah, you know what? Her mom and dad thinking so
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  dad's gone dead. It's you.
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  No split up my own dad had divorced by then and you know,
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  just another thing of to, you know, to reassure myself and my
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  beliefs. I'm not good enough for, you
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  know, for anything not lovable. But did you ever let any of that
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  out? Shane like was it all just
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  compartmentalised inside you? That this is just how I feel?
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  Yeah, yeah and it's one of the things I shared which I mean the
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  thing about that is teenage years are tough anyway.
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  But if you've got that extra whatever you're putting on
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  yourself, that's that much tougher.
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  Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of negative beliefs
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  about myself and that just consume me, you know, and as I
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  got older and as I got into trouble and did things that just
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  reassured that this is where you belong.
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  Yeah, you know is it's down at the bottom with nothing, just
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  reconfirmed it. Yeah, everything I did was just
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  like I told you or what about your brother and sister?
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  What how did they were they? In your world at that point.
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  Yeah, you know, again I you know it's 17 I moved out and and, and
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  I staked on. Yeah, you know, because there's
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  an again, this is where drugs and alcohol and running and
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  gunning was more important than anything else.
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  And that place is huge part of my life to throughout all the
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  way up until recently. You know, it's a part of my
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  story and it's something. I'm not ashamed to admit it
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  anymore is that I chose drugs and alcohol.
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  Hmm. Everyone and everything and
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  that's including all My kids, I have I have a lot of kids, you
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  know, and we can get into that later, you know?
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  Actually, I think it started right around that time.
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  That's when my oldest son was born and it was I'm selling weed
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  and acid, you know, not making no money.
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  I never made no money selling drugs, you know, and I like to
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  get high. So if I just stating it was
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  feeding that craving. So, but yet, You had him and
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  just I'm moving around from, you know, house to house.
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  Apartment apartment can kicked out already and that's all my
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  life consisted of and that's what I allowed to run my life.
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  So let's let's let's let's step into because it sounds like
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  there were a series of things that we're going on that you the
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  controlling factor in all this is drugs and alcohol.
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  So When your big nightmare happened, did you feel like it
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  was that something was going to come down?
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  Or was it boom that they tagged you and tag the group and that
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  was it was his lights out. You're talking about the
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  indictment? Yeah no.
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  I had actually actually stepped out of I call Honey, I say this
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  because I was like I'm doing good.
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  Yeah. And that was just me steal and
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  pain pills from my dad and doing bad salt, you know.
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  But I wasn't cooking dope anymore.
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  Uh-huh. So I could say that doing good
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  and I want to say it was I want to say is close to year that I
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  stepped out of the game. And and I was just doing some
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  things one night in any way. Funny how that happened, you
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  know, they've just the marshals and in the head of police or
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  whatever in that in that I call Mike's case in Southern
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  Illinois. staying down there, and Chief of police called was
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  like my dad. Did he's like, hey, they're, you
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  know, they're looking for you everywhere, all over family's
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  house, like you need to do something and I was like,
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  They're like, we just want to talk to you about some string of
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  robberies about a blind, it's the middle of the night and I'm
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  so high. Like I don't even like, alright,
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  I'll come in and talk to you. And as soon as I walked in,
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  there's the marshals, there's the indictment, you know?
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  And again, it's really strong out and I brought some stuff
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  with me and just in case, you know, but I was oblivious,
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  because I was just so strong. I didn't know what was going on
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  and like indictment for a while. It's just a blur.
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  Yeah. And, and again, even when I
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  remember the first, I don't remember, But remember, some
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  bits and pieces of the first hour went to federal court.
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  And again, I told you I brought some stuff with me, you know.
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  And I remember going, which isn't unheard of, yeah, right.
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  And so I remember going and remember just being a mess and
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  I'm sitting in the courtroom and I'm just looking around and
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  they're taking on being a diet of with a bunch of females in
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  like one other person, which would my my partner.
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  Yeah. And I'm like, how can you guys
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  be charging me, you know, on conspiracy when I don't know
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  nothing. People.
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  You know, I was just acting the fool and the next time I went to
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  Marshalls, like you're not so you're a lot less calm Spurgeon.
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  You were last time with Mikey. I don't remember last time.
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  So like I just didn't remember any of that first court date in
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  anything. They were trying to tell me, you
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  know? And again, I was extremely
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  ignorant in to do a lot of things, man, and did you feel
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  like once your head got kind of out of the blur?
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  Did you feel like you run a big deal like this?
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  Was a serious deal? Yeah, because I'm like I'm not
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  doing nothing. Yeah.
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  You know, I'm not pushing. No, wait I'm not going to when
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  I'm cooking to get high. Yeah.
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  Who am I right? You know, and when I heard, you
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  know, ten years like I sensed a hundred months, I was just like
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  For what? Yeah, but what, how you know and
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  I was in. Yeah.
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  God is dots, is a long time since I got no priors.
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  Yeah, you know, how you going to give me almost 10 years for some
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  people saying, I cook some dope with something unheard of and I
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  couldn't believe it and and I'm in County.
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  So I'm just, I'm taking whatever I can get from people.
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  Yeah. I'm taking the, you know, any
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  and everything, you know how it is, you know, whatever you got,
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  let me get that, you know. So So I stay just a mess in
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  county and and stuff like that, man.
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  But, you know, the how long were you in County, 14 long?
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  14 months is a long, long time. So I'll show you this real quick
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  because I was I was in a in a little block and they decided
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  they were going to do some upgrades.
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  And so we had a little Windows Wars got boarded up because
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  that's where the upgrades and ago.
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  So I was in that block, really nine months.
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  The only time I've ever seen daylight was going to court Art
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  went to court twice in 14 months.
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  She's never been outside. Know we had some little thing.
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  It was watching much bigger than this room here.
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  Yeah. And I got to the point where I
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  was like, I'm not even going outside, you know?
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  It's just and so I never went outside.
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  I just I laid around and watch TV and got fat and, and just
• 15:54
  took everything. I could possibly get from
• 15:56
  others. That was my, that was my life
• 15:59
  inside there. And so at this time, what on the
• 16:03
  outside, what's going on? Because you've got a kid, I've
• 16:05
  got I've got multiple kids now, multiple kids come out.
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  Now you know that's part of my story.
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  You know I have five kids one more on the way.
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  So I have six all five, boys, and one girl.
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  Okay, all with different women. Yeah.
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  You know. And that is because each and
• 16:24
  every time I said I'm going to stay here and I'm going to do
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  this. I'm going to do the right thing,
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  right? Then happened, I chose drugs and
• 16:32
  alcohol and everything. I'll say that continuously so
• 16:37
  and your parents while you're going through this and the 14
• 16:41
  months and all this. Are they seen talking visiting?
• 16:47
  Where does that world end up spilling into?
• 16:50
  It was my third son at a time, you know, because mean his mom,
• 16:55
  I ended up actually having custody of him.
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  And this is part of my stuck in, so, his mom was was in active
• 17:03
  addiction to, he was a methadone kid, you know?
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  And so long story short, I end up with custody, she's running
• 17:10
  again, and I've got them. And I finally got a kid, I've
• 17:15
  got them. Yeah, response to this, right?
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  Living, he's living in the back of my truck, and but you got in
• 17:21
  girl's house and girl's house. And he's Cooking dope with me.
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  You know, that kind of stuff, but I got them, my dad wants
• 17:30
  them. You know, everybody is starting
• 17:33
  to wipe their hands clean them me.
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  You know, I never talked to my mom and never went around him
• 17:37
  and my sister by. Now, my brother had passed away
• 17:41
  in a car wreck, and so that's that's when I was introduced to
• 17:45
  pain pills, you know. But You know, he would come up,
• 17:50
  you know, my youngest in in again, when you talking to
• 17:54
  somebody to glasses, just it gets old and went and I just
• 17:58
  something I prefer not to do, you know?
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  I mean, I'm doing the same thing day in and day out and nothing
• 18:03
  changing your nothing. I really don't have a whole lot
• 18:05
  to say. Yeah, you know.
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  So I if I preferred nobody really to come see me even when
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  I was locked up, you know, when I went away, you know, my mom
• 18:12
  would want to come to see me. Well, let's talk about that.
• 18:14
  So you finally after 14 months, somebody tells you to pack. up,
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  and you had to wear, So they come and get me and all I know
• 18:25
  is I get on the bus. I'm just excited to get out of
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  there. Yeah.
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  Yeah, my goal where my going yappin St.
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  Louis and, and I don't even care.
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  I'm just like, finally I'm out of there and I'm moving and I
• 18:34
  ended up in for City where I took a bus.
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  All the way there was like a two day after day long tracked, it
• 18:41
  was, it was miserable man, and but I'm just excited to be out
• 18:45
  of there and moving on with this journey and I remember when I
• 18:50
  step foot on for City and I walked out into the yard and I
• 18:55
  felt like I was free. Hmm, gosh look, yeah.
• 18:59
  I got all this to Rome, you know, you know and we can use
• 19:04
  talking about this earlier and I want to say this, you know, in
• 19:07
  because of course I want to come, you know, part of me wants
• 19:10
  to come in here at this hard, gangster story and I'm a
• 19:14
  hardened Thug and all you because of my looks you know and
• 19:17
  people expect that when they see me sir.
• 19:18
  Like, you know, I told you the certainly like, okay, what USP
• 19:21
  were you at all these things? And it's like I went to for City
• 19:25
  low, like, you know, low like yeah, but I did have all these
• 19:30
  tattoos day. Yeah.
• 19:31
  You know, and as part of that Journey, you know, right?
• 19:35
  So yeah. So supportive for City Loman in.
• 19:39
  And that was my home for a few years.
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  And I just feel like, well, you know, walking in there, you
• 19:44
  said, you felt like it was like, you know, being 14 months and
• 19:48
  Counting, He had to feel like this is going to be a different
• 19:52
  environment. A different place to live that
• 19:56
  you know, for people who've been in county jail for a long time.
• 20:01
  Obviously there's nothing worse than the county jail first.
• 20:04
  So did you, how did you activate the new life there?
• 20:11
  I did it a year in Boonville back in 99.
• 20:13
  So I've got a, I've got some, you know, a little bit of
• 20:16
  mystery or for yeah, you know. And so when I walked in, of
• 20:20
  course it's a big compound, you know, it's over 1,000 guys and
• 20:23
  it's a big it's a big yard and so I walk in and it's crazy
• 20:28
  because I walk into my into my unit and they're walking me to
• 20:32
  my bunk and also out of here Jane look over and smuggled
• 20:36
  heroin dealer. Oh wow for my Southern Illinois,
• 20:40
  you know sighs. I mean I wasn't trash.
• 20:41
  Can I do whatever I can get my hands on and so I'm like shorty,
• 20:45
  you know? And so I got all of a sudden
• 20:47
  they're connect. Yeah, I'm you know, and I got
• 20:50
  the inside plug and and, you know, just You know, how we do
• 20:55
  things in there. So the whites, you know, I mean,
• 20:59
  took me under, you know, open arms and it just started from
• 21:02
  there. Yeah, you know, it was again, it
• 21:07
  was freedom. I thought I was free, you know,
• 21:09
  I have to be in, you know, in that little bitty Cube for so
• 21:13
  long. Now, I'm just like being in a
• 21:15
  city, you know, I'm just like, wow, I'm not overwhelming, a lot
• 21:19
  of people, you know, it was a big open, big open Bay and
• 21:23
  That's where with the journey started.
• 21:26
  So, do you have a prison job? Did you get any excuse to work?
• 21:29
  So, what did you, what were you told you consist of their I came
• 21:34
  in? Extremely overweight out of
• 21:36
  shape. You know son of that was going
• 21:38
  to be some you're going to focus on and so I was like you know
• 21:41
  finally out you know home boys are picking on me like you look
• 21:43
  how big you are, you know? And I'm like okay so I started I
• 21:48
  started working out you know and and all in my six years all I
• 21:52
  did was work out. Play handball?
• 21:54
  Yeah, so I had balls, a big sport in prison and that's all I
• 21:57
  did. That's all I do is play handball
• 21:59
  and workout and for quite a few years and, you know, yard
• 22:04
  politics. Yeah, you know, even though it
• 22:07
  was a low, you know, no matter where you're at, you still have
• 22:09
  your politics and like I said earlier that, you know, I
• 22:13
  remember just turn around one time.
• 22:15
  It was like, dang I've been I've been here two years, you know,
• 22:17
  you just get so caught up and cause this is my life, you know,
• 22:22
  I have almost 10 years like To me, that's forever.
• 22:25
  Well, would you like forever? Yeah, I'm just like I'm not
• 22:28
  going nowhere. I'm a may not end up going home,
• 22:30
  you know? I mean because it's just you
• 22:32
  could you can get down like that, you know.
• 22:36
  So I just started working out and playing handball, I was what
• 22:40
  day, you know I was a yard dog. Yeah, I lived outside.
• 22:43
  How long were you there? I was there for a little over
• 22:45
  two years and then and then I got I got eligible for a camp.
• 22:49
  So I went Flu. No, I took a bus or something.
• 22:54
  I know how I got to peek in anymore.
• 22:57
  I think it's about us, positive Peak and maybe and I got to
• 23:02
  Pekin is the worst situation ever?
• 23:06
  Um you know I've never heard anything good about that.
• 23:09
  No guys are down there. Yeah we talked about earlier and
• 23:11
  you know you get there in the yards you know the little camps
• 23:14
  on on lockdown. No no no microwave limited
• 23:18
  canteen and is ridiculous and everything had to come from. you
• 23:22
  know outside you know, and in the kind of time I was on I was
• 23:27
  you know like okay well then how come we're not bringing nothing
• 23:29
  in the pic and have a fence No. Yeah no.
• 23:34
  Yeah. And so I ended up, you know,
• 23:35
  having some things brought in and I lasted not even a month on
• 23:40
  the compound after you've gotten the yeah, I was there.
• 23:43
  You know, I was doing not even a month.
• 23:46
  Man may have been a little over a month but Sis got me.
• 23:51
  Yeah, and for those who sis is really the investigative unit
• 23:57
  inside the prison, they're the ones that investigate
• 23:59
  everything. There the there, the scary
• 24:01
  people. You got the CEOs that count like
• 24:05
  account to make sure you're there, you got sis, that
• 24:07
  actually looks and tries to find stuff and put people into the
• 24:12
  shoe, which is the whole, how long did you get?
• 24:15
  Six months? Six months is a long time in the
• 24:17
  hole. Yeah, I had a Sally for about
• 24:22
  two months. Another guy for almost a few
• 24:27
  weeks and then I didn't come by myself.
• 24:29
  Yeah, and I think a lot of people wonder Shane like because
• 24:33
  you hear about it and you see it on TV and, you know, there's all
• 24:37
  kinds of what, how did you handle your time in the hole?
• 24:41
  Because that's really I mean, it's solitary No, I don't know
• 24:47
  if I can get how I can say this. So you ever remember?
• 24:54
  Yeah, I remember hearing about guys being in a shoe and being a
• 24:56
  so long that they would watch the CEOs, come down the walkway
• 25:00
  and, you know, and it's, you know, and, and jerk off.
• 25:04
  Yeah. And I'll be like, oh, how could
• 25:06
  you after you've been the shoe so long and like, you don't see
• 25:08
  nobody and you finally see a female, that's why I was like,
• 25:10
  this is how ya like that. You know, you get so far back
• 25:13
  there. And when you get forgot about
• 25:15
  some days, you know, like, oh, we forgot you were back there.
• 25:19
  I had a schedule. I worked out.
• 25:22
  I had a routine. I read a lot rattling.
• 25:24
  I I just I just figured out like and when they would bring
• 25:28
  breakfast and I doesn't start my day, I like okay, Boombah, boom,
• 25:32
  you know, read print, our team, you'd work out and then lay
• 25:35
  around and it's read, I read a lot.
• 25:37
  I was reading a book a day book a day.
• 25:40
  Well, what kind of what kind of adjust anything they had?
• 25:42
  Yeah, you know I got into the deal Western such as having the
• 25:46
  Western because I was like it's give me whatever you got going
• 25:49
  on back here. Just give me the Escape.
• 25:51
  Yeah, little Escape. Yeah.
• 25:53
  It was a lot of that, I just remember a ton of reading.
• 25:55
  I did so much reading back there.
• 25:56
  And and and again, I ended up back as ended up in the back of
• 26:00
  the run and I was by myself, I had nobody across from me.
• 26:03
  Nobody next, you were really all.
• 26:05
  I was back really in solid tell and I remember a few times like
• 26:08
  I said, do you forgot about me? And I'm like how do not like Hey
• 26:12
  where's my child? Yeah.
• 26:15
  And then where's the books? Where?
• 26:16
  You know because we look forward to all these little things you
• 26:19
  know and I'm like I need that. Yeah Tom can buy nice to see.
• 26:22
  You so you'll see somebody, you know, so I do remember a lot of
• 26:27
  that and just in what magazines up, man, putting magazines up
• 26:34
  and and, and talking to them. Mmm, you know, I'm saying, just
• 26:38
  say anything to get for a mind, hack to think that your visit
• 26:42
  sanding up magazines, and having, you know, pictures of
• 26:45
  people or whatever. And just talking to, that's like
• 26:48
  the movie of what was that called, with Tom Hanks.
• 26:51
  And he talked to that ball, Called it Wilson, was Wilson was
• 26:54
  Wilson ball, like that, like that, man, it got bad.
• 27:00
  That's why I started talking to myself, you know.
• 27:03
  So when you got out of there, Shane did you feel different
• 27:06
  after being in that type of environment that long?
• 27:10
  Yes by yourself. I told you earlier, everybody's
• 27:12
  that was kept coming back to the shoe.
• 27:14
  Everybody was against in up to Michigan.
• 27:17
  Yeah. And so that's share this
• 27:19
  earlier, you know, it they had to freeways and, and it was you
• 27:22
  No, supposedly a sweet spot and so I'm like that.
• 27:25
  I'm going to Michigan. This is all worth it.
• 27:27
  Yes great. And and of course you know when
• 27:32
  you've been in there for a while and you start to you know coz
• 27:36
  you know they start to you know do things for you.
• 27:39
  And finally one of them came back and told me like Sergeant,
• 27:42
  you know, you're finally leaving now.
• 27:44
  Like where am I going? It was like Beaumont.
• 27:48
  Bloody Beaumont is with the max is known of down there.
• 27:53
  They had campus, you know, he was like Texas.
• 27:56
  I was like taxes how that after they sent me to Texas?
• 27:59
  Yeah, you know and they decide they want you out of here, you
• 28:03
  know? And I pissed him off and
• 28:05
  whatever the case may be been and and so I was like, I don't
• 28:09
  care. Just I'm ready to go.
• 28:10
  Yeah. You know, you're ready for a new
• 28:13
  frontier. So Con Air and Oklahoma for a
• 28:18
  while. And down to Texas.
• 28:22
  Everybody says it. Oklahoma, I didn't go through
• 28:24
  Oklahoma, that, that that's kind of like a cattle.
• 28:27
  Herd were. Yeah, you just yeah, everybody
• 28:29
  Shackled up. Everybody's counting everybody's
• 28:33
  build through. Yeah.
• 28:34
  Grazie, it feels like days, you know, you just lined up in the
• 28:39
  lines forever and you're, you know, just got to go through
• 28:42
  that whole process and when you finally get up to your up to
• 28:45
  your pod, you just like finally, you know, but yeah, it is a huge
• 28:49
  Judge long. I mean, imagine this room here
• 28:53
  in heaven. 20, guys in here. Yeah, I mean, you know, your
• 28:56
  period and sitting next to somebody right next to you, you
• 28:59
  know, because it sometimes are laying right next?
• 29:01
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:02
  It Oklahoma. Is an experience.
• 29:04
  Yeah. Is an experience, you know, you
• 29:07
  have never heard anything good about the Oklahoma experience.
• 29:10
  Yeah, but, you know, during my time in for City, you know, is
• 29:17
  again, you Hermes, you know, share earlier No, no love for
• 29:23
  myself. And just all these negative
• 29:28
  beliefs about myself. And so when I get in, I latch on
• 29:34
  with With the white boys, you know I start to get wrapped up
• 29:40
  into that lifestyle. The politics of politics of it
• 29:43
  to do, you know the running with your car and for those who don't
• 29:49
  know or cars like three or four people that you hang out with
• 29:52
  all the time, if okay, with walk with work out with yeah watch TV
• 29:58
  with gently from your, you know, your neighborhood and can I was
• 30:01
  in for City. So there was, you know, quite a
• 30:04
  few of us from Jefferson County. Auntie, it was like, you know,
• 30:07
  part of the neighborhood. Yeah, so we and at that time, I,
• 30:12
  you know, of course, I've always had a fascination with tattoos
• 30:16
  and push one, the homeboys was a tattoo artist and Started
• 30:23
  getting away when I started getting blasted and I had a few
• 30:26
  people working on me at one time and you know, one of the things
• 30:29
  about that though there was a guy big boy, that was the big
• 30:35
  tattoo. Well, there was two or three of
• 30:36
  them, but one of the main guys, but somebody could come in
• 30:40
  there. One, I remember one time there
• 30:42
  was a guy that was doing the tattoo.
• 30:43
  He wasn't knew it was new at it, and that guy got a staph
• 30:47
  infection. We're here.
• 30:50
  I mean, it wasn't like anything I've ever.
• 30:52
  Seen before and you know that happens more times than not, you
• 30:57
  know, with what's going on, it means you know, the good, the
• 31:00
  good guys know what they're doing, how to do it but yeah
• 31:03
  they could get it can get dangerous.
• 31:04
  I had an inside joke and that was if I looked at a tattoo gun,
• 31:08
  I get staff. Yeah.
• 31:09
  Because I it was it was just a period of time.
• 31:11
  I think one summer where people can die from staff and I just
• 31:15
  had it every time. Every time, the deal touching
• 31:17
  me. I got staff and it just yeah,
• 31:19
  end up being a whole bad batch of Ink.
• 31:23
  That was made and it just kept going with it.
• 31:26
  I did. Yeah, no, I ended up with staff.
• 31:30
  So weak when you get finally got down to went through.
• 31:34
  Oklahoma, got down to Beaumont. What was life like for you down
• 31:36
  in that world. Is that where you ended up to be
• 31:39
  your final destination? Yeah, so, getting down to on a
• 31:44
  Texas at another disciplinary yard, big?
• 31:48
  Yeah, you know, it's another huge campus.
• 31:50
  Yeah. And I walked in with open arms,
• 31:57
  you know, some some of the people had already heard about
• 32:00
  me knew I was coming and so when I say weird how that happens,
• 32:05
  funny isn't it. He's just like, you know, that's
• 32:08
  hard about you. We already knew is coming, you
• 32:10
  know. And so it was it was open arms
• 32:13
  and And again, what I done to myself as far as tattoo wise, it
• 32:20
  was I never seen it because I never seen myself that way.
• 32:24
  Yeah, I know because I completely had my head done.
• 32:27
  I was working on my face just covered and some of them are
• 32:33
  they were racially inspired and so I had things that stood out
• 32:40
  and so walking in again People say I'm intimidating.
• 32:47
  Looking, I don't ever see that because I see myself.
• 32:49
  You don't see yourself. I'm a few myself as a scared
• 32:52
  little boy. Yeah.
• 32:53
  And that's what I was all my life, right?
• 32:55
  So I never knew my size. Yeah, I never knew how I looked
• 32:59
  and it wasn't kind of took you back when people thought that
• 33:02
  until I got into like taxes. And, you know, people were like,
• 33:07
  you know what, you know. Yeah.
• 33:08
  No, I don't. And I'm like, you know, that's
• 33:10
  are looking back at some of the prison, you know, how prison
• 33:12
  yard pictures and I'm like, dang, I am you hover over
• 33:15
  Everybody who him tall a, you know, but I just I never could
• 33:20
  see myself as that kind of person, you know, good because
• 33:23
  of how I felt inside. So I never, you know, took
• 33:27
  advantage of my I did and shortly thereafter because I you
• 33:32
  know, I started to recognize that what I've done to myself as
• 33:36
  far as tattooing and my size that just to look did I
• 33:41
  presented was people stood off and and it was intimidating.
• 33:45
  Dating. So dad, of course went to my
• 33:48
  head because I have nothing inside.
• 33:51
  So if I get a little piece of something that I need that, you
• 33:55
  know, and that was a part of running with the crowd that Iran
• 33:59
  was in prison, you know, being intimidating.
• 34:02
  Yeah, it was a me because now I'm looked at I'm feared, I'm
• 34:06
  respected. Yeah.
• 34:07
  You know, I need that, right? I need that, you know?
• 34:10
  And when I came to Texas to yards yard speaker was what's
• 34:14
  going home? Um, and I played in ball, it's
• 34:20
  only did. So I knew everybody quickly and
• 34:23
  so the, for a Missouri guy st. Louis guy to be in Texas and I
• 34:29
  ended up being the yard speaker down in a Texas.
• 34:32
  Prison was explained to them what the yard speaker is.
• 34:35
  So it was, I was a speaker for the for, for the white car.
• 34:39
  Hmm. And so anytime, anything came
• 34:41
  up, whatever it may have been. I was a speaker for, for the
• 34:45
  white. For that compound.
• 34:47
  Yeah. So that alone was just big, you
• 34:50
  know? So now I got in my head even
• 34:51
  bigger. Yeah, you're really not present
• 34:53
  politics and again like I said my years just like I would turn
• 34:58
  around. Yeah I didn't do your went by.
• 35:00
  Yeah. You know like that.
• 35:01
  Kept me busy. Yeah, that that was how you
• 35:04
  actually that was your strategy of killing time being in that
• 35:09
  prison politic world because there's a lot of prison
• 35:11
  politics. Yeah, it was it's a full-time
• 35:14
  job and let alone play in hand. And in Texas handball is Big.
• 35:17
  Yeah, you know, so I did a lot of that, you know, but doing all
• 35:22
  that, you know, one thing I always always always share is
• 35:27
  because people always ask about the tattoos and all this and I
• 35:30
  always say it's part of my story.
• 35:31
  Now at listen. This isn't, you know, I didn't
• 35:35
  do this to look cool or look tough.
• 35:37
  I was doing this to cover me up. I don't, I don't like to look at
• 35:41
  me. I sure didn't want you to look
• 35:43
  at me because I feel you. You've seen me.
• 35:45
  You've seen what I felt inside and now is that scared little
• 35:49
  boy. I'm going to cover that up.
• 35:52
  Yeah, you know, it wasn't that that's all I was doing, you
• 35:55
  know? And of course, you know.
• 35:57
  Yeah, I'm just a big collage of stuff and stuff.
• 36:00
  I liked it a lot of these things.
• 36:01
  I'm not into no more. You know, some of the things I'm
• 36:04
  In a process of getting laser removed, you know, because it's
• 36:06
  not where I'm at in my life and yeah, thank you.
• 36:09
  Yeah, you know well as things got because your years are
• 36:14
  clicking by because I know you did our depth which is a thing
• 36:18
  that you can get a year off for, which is the program that I
• 36:23
  think. If I remember eyes a nine-month
• 36:25
  program, I went through it too. What was that?
• 36:29
  Like for you? Because that's a program that's
• 36:31
  supposed to, you know, it's all about rational.
• 36:34
  Averill thinking, what was your thoughts going into that world?
• 36:38
  That's almost like a cult that you enter when you go into our
• 36:41
  deaf. You know it's you get a number
• 36:45
  and you know. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:47
  Yeah I'll share on that because leading up to that of course I'm
• 36:51
  in trouble again as I was just said he pulled me up and I
• 36:56
  remember I got my or tap. I got my two-point reduction.
• 36:59
  Yeah and so I remember getting at and having somebody help me
• 37:04
  do The the timeline and in that put me with that two-point
• 37:09
  reduction that would put me directly into our nap now.
• 37:13
  Hmm, and I knew I was in trouble.
• 37:15
  There's some things that happen. I might be getting shipped
• 37:17
  again. So I was like a grab that paper
• 37:20
  ran up to us is and I was like oh like listen.
• 37:22
  Look I just got approved. Yeah, I should just put me
• 37:26
  directly into our data. Yeah, and like that means, you
• 37:30
  know, after this I go home. I'm like, like I want to I want
• 37:35
  to do is I want to do it here because if you guys ship me, I
• 37:37
  mean that's gonna be 6 months in a shoe.
• 37:39
  You know another word. You know if you must travel I
• 37:41
  want to travel as an inmate. Yeah.
• 37:43
  So I'm like you know, that's get into my cone home time.
• 37:45
  Yeah. So like I need this.
• 37:47
  Yeah. So I'm like listen I'm done.
• 37:49
  Like you won't hear my name no more.
• 37:50
  This is I'm going to fall back. No, like I That we're going to
• 37:54
  give you that. Okay, so go back within like a
• 37:57
  week. I get shipped our debt.
• 37:59
  You know. It's just another unit, you
• 38:00
  know, but feels like an island. Yeah.
• 38:03
  There you go. And there you go because you're
• 38:05
  no longer allowed to get in trouble, right?
• 38:06
  You know, if you get, if you get one bride up, I can't think the
• 38:12
  right name anymore. It's a long, you know.
• 38:14
  But if you get in trouble. Yeah.
• 38:15
  Like you, you're out, yeah. That's a cure year away.
• 38:18
  Yeah. So I mean some people they would
• 38:20
  set back and then that was you know, you gets it back for two
• 38:23
  or three Three months, but some people use kick out.
• 38:25
  You lose a whole year. I saw a lot of guys in here.
• 38:28
  Yeah. So not a huge deal.
• 38:29
  I need that, you know, I need that.
• 38:30
  And so I could over there and, of course, you know, the all,
• 38:39
  let's how to say this, try not to get to prison any and all the
• 38:42
  termed, all the homeboys new like, okay, supportive, you're
• 38:47
  just where you're going. You can go.
• 38:48
  Do you like no longer in trouble?
• 38:51
  You know, it's like we will. All this.
• 38:54
  Now you're in there you stay over there so it was supportive
• 38:57
  you know that was nice which is a good thing.
• 39:00
  Yeah it is because you know it doing that for you know all
• 39:03
  those years it's hard to step away.
• 39:05
  Sure. Didn't like when you can no
• 39:06
  longer think about getting in trouble.
• 39:09
  Yeah you know and when that's all you're used to doing things
• 39:13
  like I want to hang out no more you know and it's weird.
• 39:18
  So I again it's rdap it's you know my first thought was Yes,
• 39:24
  it's about drugs. I know enough about drugs.
• 39:26
  Hmm. I don't know, I remember one of
• 39:29
  my one of my partner's saying no man.
• 39:32
  Like no, it's about you. Yeah.
• 39:34
  And I was like what? Yeah.
• 39:37
  Anyway, just give me that year off.
• 39:39
  Let me get that. Yeah, they could to make it.
• 39:41
  Let me get that. So I could over there Linda
• 39:46
  Smith. As my counselors now.
• 39:52
  Amazing woman man. Amazing, that woman in even the
• 39:56
  guys in our depth would just be like, oh, like what are you two
• 40:00
  doing? Mmm.
• 40:01
  I've never seen these guys already completed an earth
• 40:03
  waiting to go home now, you know, not like we never seen her
• 40:06
  work with somebody so much she does with you.
• 40:10
  And I like, I don't know what she's doing.
• 40:11
  She got processing is videos. You've got me doing some
• 40:15
  nonsense, I don't know. It's missing something in me
• 40:20
  that I just didn't have to Maybe the, for the first time that's
• 40:25
  happened somebody or seeing something.
• 40:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, potential. Yeah, you know, and so that's
• 40:30
  where all this came about. So I remember sitting in her
• 40:33
  similarly this and I'm looking out the window on that yard and
• 40:37
  and Miss Smith Goes she'll understand what are your goals
• 40:42
  goals? I don't know what that is.
• 40:44
  Yeah, I'm in there because like I told you in school, all I do
• 40:47
  is get in trouble, right? I don't got FS.
• 40:51
  Yes, I got. I just got pushed along all my
• 40:54
  life. So I don't think I I don't know
• 40:57
  what goals are, you know, how do you feel about yourself?
• 41:03
  When you talking about what are your beliefs about yourself,
• 41:08
  again? I don't know what you're talking
• 41:09
  about, but on a piece of paper and it was a list of core
• 41:13
  beliefs. She's like any of these resonate
• 41:17
  with you. I was like, yeah.
• 41:23
  She was like, okay, she's like, listen.
• 41:27
  How do you feel about sharing that with the group tomorrow in
• 41:29
  the group is 90 dudes? Yeah, yeah.
• 41:31
  And and, and I'm like, yeah, I don't care.
• 41:35
  You know, and now mind you in order to have you, you become a
• 41:38
  facilitator, coaches all that right said earlier, I had no
• 41:42
  self-confidence. Yeah, getting up.
• 41:44
  And speaking in front of everybody, I didn't like to talk
• 41:46
  at all. Yeah, you know, so, Go back real
• 41:50
  quick when we just had to do a training to kind of learn about
• 41:54
  the facilitating part, remember doing that.
• 41:57
  So I go in and I'm talking about listen, man, like I don't do
• 41:59
  this, you know, this is how, you know, I'm dumb, I can't talk,
• 42:03
  nobody wants to hear me, I don't know.
• 42:04
  I don't know how to do this. I'm in my grace and it we're
• 42:07
  going around the circle, right? Just kind of do a little test
• 42:09
  run before when it got to me, I broke out in a sweat soaked.
• 42:14
  My uniform is not a joke. Yeah, the homeboys everybody was
• 42:17
  like, oh my like listen, no. Like, I don't do this.
• 42:20
  Oh my gosh II, all these things I did, I don't do this man.
• 42:24
  You know, in there you have to do this.
• 42:27
  Start breaking down your wall so and then again like yeah,
• 42:29
  that's, you know, art that changed my life.
• 42:31
  You know, I did a 180 man and mr.
• 42:33
  And mrs. Smith, she was like, you know,
• 42:35
  do you mind sharing this with the group tomorrow?
• 42:37
  And I was like, no, I don't care, you know, whatever.
• 42:40
  So got to the group next day and she said, you know, Spurgeon
• 42:45
  when went to share, you know, blah and it It was me reading
• 42:50
  off. The list of beliefs that I had
• 42:54
  about myself. And so, when I, when I did all
• 42:57
  that before, I made it to the door, I had a line of guys,
• 43:02
  like, oh, Was that set up you guys doing some at, you know,
• 43:07
  little script or what like, you know, do you don't, you don't
• 43:10
  think of yourself like that, do you mind?
• 43:13
  Yeah, I do like, oh my God, we don't see that, you know, and
• 43:17
  I'm like intense, so we're good for you, but I do.
• 43:20
  This is, how is this is me, and this is how I, you know, and and
• 43:23
  so that's where it started. The combativeness of me being a
• 43:28
  nobody, you know, not be able to speak the list, just goes on and
• 43:32
  on and and when it came time for me to facilitate, It was you're
• 43:40
  the captain of the ship, get up there and take control.
• 43:43
  And I was like, I'm gonna do a joy, great F and job on this.
• 43:47
  I'm going to I want to do so good and I want to speak loudly.
• 43:50
  I want to speak write and I killed it went up there and like
• 43:57
  I just did it and everybody was like oh like that.
• 44:01
  Again a lot of some of these guys are already done and
• 44:04
  they're just hanging out you know you know how that goes you
• 44:06
  know you like it. Less ever heard.
• 44:08
  By speak. So clearly so loudly like you
• 44:11
  killed it and I was like really and so like that started that
• 44:15
  Journey may be able to speak giving you confidence.
• 44:18
  Yeah so long story short with me speaking, you know how did we do
• 44:22
  when you graduate they did they, they vote somebody.
• 44:25
  Yeah, I was at somebody. Yeah, you and me both?
• 44:28
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 44:30
  I didn't write the speech. Yeah.
• 44:31
  You know, because I had a white collar guy and he was, like,
• 44:33
  yelling help you write this speech, you know?
• 44:37
  Yeah. I'm saying and you and I both
• 44:42
  sitting here both of us not thinking that we would get
• 44:45
  anything out of that program. And and then us being the people
• 44:50
  at the end that yes, but yeah. Yeah, I mean you know because
• 44:54
  when I do graduate, you know, as is and Captain to like yeah,
• 44:58
  pull me up like how like we had that's on you.
• 45:00
  Yeah yeah we did they use the last a week?
• 45:02
  Yeah even when the concert is like we've already heard about
• 45:05
  you, we don't want no trouble. You got anything going to kick
• 45:07
  you out, you know, might not I'm trying to think what a great
• 45:09
  story those shame because you know the program is what
• 45:14
  somebody makes it and then who is in the program who's
• 45:18
  directing it and and you got into a situation where you were
• 45:22
  open was her name Linda to her and she's actually asking you
• 45:27
  questions that you haven't been asked.
• 45:30
  And all of a sudden this opens up, you know, a little crack
• 45:35
  too. White that says, you know, maybe
• 45:39
  I can, maybe I can do something different.
• 45:41
  Yeah. And then you do so, so your you
• 45:46
  complete this and I'm this point, I think you're probably
• 45:48
  close to getting out, right? Yeah.
• 45:50
  So, you know, I do the rdap and I think I had like a month to
• 45:55
  wait. And, and again, I had told you
• 45:57
  earlier, I I had done a 180 like, I believe ya, myself.
• 46:02
  You were you gotten that feeling of confidence?
• 46:04
  Yeah, I'm like yo, like I, you know, I remember calling my mom
• 46:07
  and my sister and be like, wait till you meet me?
• 46:10
  Yeah. Like I am, somebody else now, I
• 46:12
  feel different. I got, you know, like it was
• 46:15
  crazy, you know, it because I've always wanted to feel this way
• 46:19
  and oh my God, I like, I believe in myself.
• 46:21
  Hello. And as I've been combating, you
• 46:24
  know, it had helped sure what combating those negative beliefs
• 46:26
  about myself. And so like, oh, okay, You know,
• 46:30
  and so when I came home, I think it's interesting to Shane wins.
• 46:36
  When you open up and you told Linda those things, you probably
• 46:40
  hadn't told anybody any of that right now is I didn't know what
• 46:42
  they were. Yeah.
• 46:42
  So I mean it's interesting when you open up like that and and
• 46:48
  get it out that that in itself starts a process that's
• 46:52
  different because you don't even know what you're dealing with
• 46:55
  until you speak it and you're speaking it to somebody and you
• 46:58
  feel different. You know, so many people walk
• 47:01
  around with that thing that's inside and they never say
• 47:03
  anything. They just they go to bed with
• 47:06
  it. Every night they wake up with it
• 47:07
  every morning and never gets off their back.
• 47:09
  Whereas at some point she saw something in you took the time
• 47:14
  and set with you and opened up a conversation that you got
• 47:18
  something out that had been sitting a nuisance you when we
• 47:21
  started talking when you were a little boy.
• 47:23
  Yeah it's interesting. Yeah I tried it I try to share
• 47:26
  with a lot of people you know to if You feel comfortable enough,
• 47:31
  especially get, it's been up with somebody to share about how
• 47:34
  you feel about your beliefs about yourself.
• 47:36
  Yeah, because I promise you that person doesn't see that.
• 47:38
  Yeah. And and start to, you know, use
• 47:40
  that exterior combativeness because that's it helped me.
• 47:43
  You know, have somebody like write them down and show
• 47:45
  somebody, you know, if not in new in the work to a group of
• 47:48
  people because they can help you be like no you are beautiful,
• 47:50
  you are smart, you know. And it worked for me, you know?
• 47:53
  And I that's just what I like. It's all I got is my experience
• 47:56
  and hopes it helps somebody else, you know, so shame on you.
• 48:00
  You, so you step out of this world, you've been in there for
• 48:02
  six, some odd even there for six years.
• 48:05
  And how do you walk out of there?
• 48:09
  What what's, what's, what do you walk out to walked up?
• 48:15
  Nothing? Okay, absolutely nothing.
• 48:19
  You know, again, I was You know, you hear a lot, people say I
• 48:26
  lost everything I heard a term and I'm just stuck with it.
• 48:30
  I gave all my things over and over.
• 48:32
  Uh-huh. You know because I was an old
• 48:34
  junkie and I could find things. I never lost nothing.
• 48:37
  Yeah, I gave all my things away man.
• 48:39
  And that was you know, houses and cars and families and kids
• 48:43
  over and over. So what's in your mind coming
• 48:46
  home? Walking out.
• 48:46
  Coming home is, is a totally completely different mindset.
• 48:52
  Again dead, our debt program in Miss and Miss White and myself
• 48:56
  in the hope of the others, I was positive.
• 48:59
  I was and now I'm positive, you know, who this guy wants in
• 49:01
  them, Mike Williams, the cost of bunk from me.
• 49:05
  He was like, he's like you ever thought about doing something
• 49:08
  positive and it seemed like, you know, the positive reaction and
• 49:12
  things that come with that. And I was like, that's stupid.
• 49:15
  And he's like, well look what you and your home, you Junior
• 49:18
  Partners do all day every day. Yeah, you're jealous.
• 49:21
  Ellen. You're screaming and you're full
• 49:23
  of chaos. Yeah.
• 49:24
  And look what you guys live in, right?
• 49:27
  Psych, huh? All right, I got nothing to
• 49:30
  lose. I'm doing things differently.
• 49:32
  Let me try this. And I got to hang out different
• 49:34
  people. So I started doing that.
• 49:35
  And so when I came home it was a positive self, confident
• 49:38
  mindset, like let's go, you know, and and my mom and and
• 49:44
  some family members were worried because when I come home and you
• 49:47
  know I've got child support, I've got you know no lives you
• 49:51
  ain't you don't have nothing really interesting to know.
• 49:53
  Like we like will help you, you know, but you Please don't let
• 49:57
  this set you back, you know, and I'm just like, no, it's gonna be
• 50:00
  okay. Like look, you do we got to do
• 50:03
  and different mindset, figure it out.
• 50:05
  I'm in my mom and my sister just be like, you know, just look at
• 50:08
  me like wow, yeah, you're okay. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:12
  Like it's gonna be all right. In a way, what happened?
• 50:14
  I came home and I was able to get my license right off the rip
• 50:17
  moms, like what I'm like, you know, I don't know.
• 50:19
  It's just happening, you know, child support, one of the cases
• 50:22
  of kids over 20, you know, 18 and in like that.
• 50:24
  Do you know that? Like one of those got robbed?
• 50:27
  You know, and I was just like, she's like, I can't believe this
• 50:29
  and it just it just doing the right thing and just kept open
• 50:34
  up the door from, you know. Yeah.
• 50:37
  You know. And so I got on that role and
• 50:40
  just just positive man. And that just got me so far.
• 50:45
  Just staying staying staying positive.
• 50:48
  Stay in plugged in which it which was I don't know if that's
• 50:52
  really the right term. Same plugged in because I wasn't
• 50:54
  plugged into nothing. Mmm, start drinking.
• 50:57
  Nothing. Just my sister, I love my sister
• 50:58
  death, and she's trying to feel. She takes a little blame for
• 51:01
  this. She introduced me to my vodka.
• 51:03
  Yeah. Because I used to drink, but
• 51:06
  drugs was my thing, you know, mastan and in pain pills didn't
• 51:10
  need the alcohol is. Yeah, you know, it's only come
• 51:13
  home and of course you know drugs my problem.
• 51:15
  Nothing else is I'm not a dick, you know?
• 51:17
  Yeah, not addictive. No, I have that.
• 51:20
  You know, so I started drinking and and and again because we all
• 51:26
  know I felt if I got trouble, I would lose that year and I go
• 51:31
  back to the Joint. So I'm like, I can't, you know,
• 51:34
  it's all got a job, you know, working at some Factor, just
• 51:36
  just doing that lifestyle, you know, Mister, let me move in
• 51:39
  with her and trying to get by. Yeah, you know.
• 51:42
  So I was able to get on my feet and I met my ex-wife and We
• 51:51
  moved in together. I moved in with her and life was
• 51:56
  good, man. Life was amazing.
• 51:58
  But I was drinking. Yeah.
• 51:59
  But that's okay, right. Because I'm not come not getting
• 52:02
  high. This is okay good.
• 52:04
  I'll and but now, you know, it was that whole positive mindset
• 52:08
  and and being that mr. Positive about everything and
• 52:13
  again, it wasn't, you know, crazy drinking that came later,
• 52:16
  you know, and and we Which we built a small Empire.
• 52:21
  You know what I like I call it. You know, we both had new cars,
• 52:24
  I had an amazing job. We just bought a new big house
• 52:29
  and and by now we have my daughter, you know and what were
• 52:33
  you doing at that time working was so I end up getting in with
• 52:37
  a buddy of mine got me in with this sewer and plumbing company
• 52:42
  and it's just rehab and home for the owner of that company, but
• 52:44
  we do work with him. A lot of it was you know,
• 52:48
  company truck company gas. You know, a good deal, great
• 52:51
  money, you know, and so we were doing extremely well and he
• 52:56
  started getting high and I was cool for a while.
• 53:00
  We all know what happens. That one day of the fuck.
• 53:04
  It's what the hell that one day came?
• 53:10
  Got away with it. And what I mean by that is I
• 53:14
  didn't have a you a soon? I got away with it.
• 53:17
  Yeah, we all know what happens. Okay, try it again.
• 53:21
  Let's roll the dice on this again.
• 53:23
  I do get trouble. I got a slap on the wrist.
• 53:28
  What I'm not losing? Yeah, I don't go back.
• 53:38
  And he had it myself. There's Off to the Races.
• 53:45
  We lost that job. still doing good, you know, I ended up, you
• 53:51
  know, we end up open our own little company and and I'm still
• 53:55
  working, you know, to rehabbing houses my head when I said, we
• 53:58
  had my daughter that was planned and Share this with you.
• 54:07
  So I finally have a daughter. I for boys.
• 54:12
  That was never around maybe a month or two, you know, never to
• 54:16
  be able to build a relationship. Yeah.
• 54:21
  I don't like to exploit things. We, you know, we had a big
• 54:24
  house. Nice things man.
• 54:26
  Doing really effing good. And I was getting high.
• 54:31
  I knit, I remember coming in my daughter's crawling.
• 54:34
  Come in the back door. And she'd shoot.
• 54:39
  You around that corner. And I would just look down at
• 54:43
  her. I'm like if you don't stop.
• 54:47
  You're gonna lose all this, you're going to give to all this
• 54:49
  away. You've got a great thing here.
• 54:52
  You finally have a daughter. You look at you.
• 54:55
  We could stop and it shows you how strong his diction is.
• 54:59
  Could stop question. No.
• 55:02
  Easily be like why? Why can't I stop?
• 55:04
  Why is it my daughter? Why isn't you know, all these
• 55:06
  things enough to make me stop. But I couldn't stop.
• 55:11
  That'll teach that. And once I, and once I started
• 55:14
  looking back, like once I started to relapse, All those
• 55:18
  negative beliefs starting to start feeling bad again.
• 55:21
  Just they just overtook me and this is what you deserve you
• 55:25
  deserve. Yeah.
• 55:26
  You didn't deserve the other stuff.
• 55:28
  Yeah. This is really, you know, you
• 55:30
  don't belong here. Yeah.
• 55:32
  You know so like that I didn't mean posture imposter syndrome.
• 55:35
  And so I just you know, I'm self-destruct, you know.
• 55:40
  No, nobody's going to hurt me. Nobody's going to get over on
• 55:44
  me. I'll leave you what.
• 55:47
  I always did all my life. Yeah, I'm a runner and a taker.
• 55:52
  I run from my feelings and I take everything you got What
• 55:57
  happens? I said I was said earlier,
• 56:00
  right, my ex-wife your ex-wife. Amazing woman.
• 56:05
  Don't get it twisted. She dealt with me.
• 56:13
  Fought for me, you know, her and my PO, you know, we're friends,
• 56:18
  you know, and that kind of stuff and trying to see if I feel
• 56:20
  really work for me, man. You know, and I always say this
• 56:23
  is guys, man. Listen, I can speak for as my
• 56:28
  pios and like they really wanted nothing for the best for me, you
• 56:32
  know, like like Stacy, see me at my best knows what you're coming
• 56:37
  home and building this. Yeah, and she see me extremely
• 56:40
  strong out after a year and was like, what?
• 56:42
  For you're doing, look at you and and so I, you know, they
• 56:47
  would put me in of, you know, their little State treatments
• 56:50
  treatment centers and I've been hard to have.
• 56:53
  I know everything. Yeah, that was my mindset.
• 56:55
  Like I you guys can't teach me nothing and shoot state-run.
• 57:03
  It is what it is you know she's like didn't you tell me just go
• 57:06
  try out. Go try out soon but now mind you
• 57:11
  I want to know what I want to say this because we like I said
• 57:13
  earlier. When I was in art app, that's
• 57:16
  what Linda was like, you got something, you've got something
• 57:20
  chain, do something with yourself.
• 57:23
  The way you look your story. The way you speak, people are
• 57:27
  drawn to you do something with yourself like Yale, you know?
• 57:31
  And so when I came home and I had to do outpatient the
• 57:34
  counselors, there were like, oh, like you, yeah.
• 57:37
  You you need to do something dude, on the right path, you
• 57:39
  know? And so I wanted that and I was
• 57:41
  and I chase but I didn't know where to reach.
• 57:44
  And we all know coming home like you know, it was obstacles in
• 57:47
  the way. Sure.
• 57:48
  And I didn't know who to who to talk to and so I'd get shut
• 57:52
  down, you know, and I just get pissed off and then I just like,
• 57:54
  you know what, it's not going to mess with it, you know, I can't
• 57:58
  I don't know where to go and in and out of treatments and on
• 58:03
  this, last go around. I want to share the story with
• 58:09
  you real quick. Kind of let you know how bad I
• 58:16
  was. I was on the relapse getting
• 58:20
  high behind the from everybody. People are starting to pay
• 58:23
  attention. My mom wanted nothing more it's
• 58:25
  and take us on a family vacation, okay?
• 58:30
  And I can't leave the country. So she's like, what if we just
• 58:33
  go down to Florida for a week, you know, and as a family and We
• 58:40
  went down. Extremely chaotic.
• 58:44
  I end up coming back on myself, ruined the whole trip.
• 58:47
  I said, I spent all the nice on alone by myself in the beach,
• 58:50
  you know, left my family down there, you know.
• 58:53
  It was it was that bastard Mass. Yeah, I brought down it, you
• 58:55
  know, some some which should have been a great success,
• 58:59
  getting some amazing time and I remember, you know, stay
• 59:02
  standing back from afar and watch it.
• 59:04
  My family, you know, and just, and just again, like worthless
• 59:10
  beating yourself up, you know. In so that, you know, to this
• 59:15
  day, you know, it's my mom just wanted that family time, and
• 59:20
  here I go again, you know, can't can't get nothing right?
• 59:23
  But the feds were sending me to an early treatment center and my
• 59:28
  sister works. It's on a lake.
• 59:31
  She's a, she was a nurse there and which is a recovery
• 59:35
  treatments, which is it? Yeah.
• 59:36
  Treatment Center, you know? Yeah and and by not like I said,
• 59:40
  you know, they had Cut me out of your life because I was you were
• 59:44
  back at rock-bottom Ron. And man, I was running hard and
• 59:49
  and again, you know, I never go back there, but here I am, you
• 59:53
  know, selling good night, my sister calls, me and I spoke to
• 59:57
  her on the how long and she was like, Listen, I work.
• 1:00:05
  It's on a lake. they had this program, they have this
• 1:00:09
  scholarship for people who worked there for immediate
• 1:00:14
  family members, she was like, The one of the cofounders of
• 1:00:20
  this place is is you this is you know he got all this same
• 1:00:26
  package. He's like I'm I just wrote him a
• 1:00:27
  letter. I've talked to him, they're
• 1:00:30
  going to, they're going to see about getting you in into this
• 1:00:33
  treatment center. Fine, whatever.
• 1:00:37
  And I was supposed to check in the next day with the state's
• 1:00:42
  facility that the feds were sending me to like, 10 in the
• 1:00:45
  morning, she was like, listen, they're going to, they're going
• 1:00:48
  to call you tonight. And me and you were accepted.
• 1:00:52
  Yeah, it'll do. She's like, he's trying to get,
• 1:00:55
  you know, Robert, trying to get. I was trying to, you know, get
• 1:00:58
  disapproved and 11:00 at night. Somebody called me.
• 1:01:03
  That's so cool. I mean, for those who haven't
• 1:01:05
  listened to Robert Riley story, go back and check out his
• 1:01:09
  episode because Robert is, his story is one where you're like,
• 1:01:16
  oh man, I can't believe that happened and then he builds it
• 1:01:19
  back and He's done so many great things since he's been out and
• 1:01:24
  with his struggles and being able to share with other people.
• 1:01:28
  He's helped so many people and you know, that's that's how I,
• 1:01:33
  you know, heard about you Shane. Is he thinks so much of you?
• 1:01:35
  So I go ahead, I didn't mean it. No, no, absolutely not that.
• 1:01:40
  And yeah, that that's, that's where my next part of the
• 1:01:44
  journey began with me and so I remember my sister was like, oh,
• 1:01:47
  I'm a meet you, you know, tomorrow morning and And she
• 1:01:54
  did. And I remember, She, she walked
• 1:01:59
  me into town a lake. And I remember walking in
• 1:02:05
  standing there and just looking around it, you know, to look,
• 1:02:08
  hot chow hall cafeteria and just these little small things that
• 1:02:11
  I've seen and I was like, hello, like somebody knows what they're
• 1:02:14
  doing. Mmm, I just looks comfortable.
• 1:02:16
  This looks nice. So for homie, this looks, you
• 1:02:19
  know, just relaxing, just all these things that these
• 1:02:22
  state-run facilities don't have. And I was like, and it not only
• 1:02:26
  that, but now I'm looking around and I'm seeing workers that look
• 1:02:28
  like me. I'm like what?
• 1:02:33
  You. You work here?
• 1:02:34
  Yeah. You work here.
• 1:02:39
  And I said this on my first day and people will tell you some of
• 1:02:43
  works here one day. Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Oh wow. Because again I told you
• 1:02:47
  somebody keeps do people keep telling me.
• 1:02:48
  I got something to do something because so yeah.
• 1:02:50
  So I step in and and, and An amazing place.
• 1:02:57
  I told you earlier the ogs on a lake, Sounds like saves lives,
• 1:03:04
  but do you original sauna Lake? Hands down.
• 1:03:09
  Deep when was your first up with Robert?
• 1:03:15
  Did you just 20 immediately know?
• 1:03:18
  So I got in and he ended up popping in like you know few
• 1:03:22
  days later and introduced himself and it is just an it,
• 1:03:25
  you know, immediate connection obviously.
• 1:03:27
  Because the way we look and where we've been and all that
• 1:03:29
  stuff, and remember, it's all me, he's like a piss.
• 1:03:32
  A lot of people off to to get you here because, you know,
• 1:03:37
  There was, there's a lot of people to get in here and it was
• 1:03:39
  like, you know, he was like but I got to call your sister called
• 1:03:43
  me and he was like, had to make it happen.
• 1:03:45
  He's like so I'll deal with it he's like, let's say I own the
• 1:03:47
  place, you know that guy, you know, but the place is amazing
• 1:03:50
  man. And, you know, just went
• 1:03:52
  through. Every I went to everything that
• 1:03:54
  they had to offer, you know, whatever they had to offer.
• 1:03:56
  I was like, let me get that, you know, MDM are you know, an
• 1:03:59
  amazing counselor there? And she was big into core
• 1:04:04
  beliefs and I went through a process with her.
• 1:04:07
  You know, six steps to Freedom, which is an amazing book choose,
• 1:04:10
  again, you know, I recommend it to anybody. 66 tips tips to help
• 1:04:14
  you choose against itself. Seriously, enough, freedom, and
• 1:04:18
  life changing book. My life changing process.
• 1:04:21
  And, and I shared my story one time and some some higher-ups
• 1:04:27
  had heard it. And again, more people around me
• 1:04:29
  looking at me like, yo, like you it sounds Journey.
• 1:04:34
  Yeah, you know, we'd like to help.
• 1:04:37
  Help you weed. Like, you know, these kind of
• 1:04:38
  things. So now I got somebody who wants
• 1:04:40
  to hold my hand, you know? And and you'll say that, you
• 1:04:43
  know that they had never got met.
• 1:04:45
  But, you know, I remember Robert which he told me he was, I
• 1:04:50
  remember this because I actually he shares it at his podcast, he
• 1:04:55
  was like keep doing the next right, things?
• 1:04:57
  Like there's going to be opportunities in front of you.
• 1:04:59
  Yeah just up to you to grab. Yeah I was like huh it.
• 1:05:03
  Oh my God. You know and I know what doing
• 1:05:05
  the next right thing meant you know. and so, you'll stay before
• 1:05:09
  I left, I did like and I was in there for a few months did all I
• 1:05:13
  could and He was like, hey man, I'm getting ready to open up.
• 1:05:19
  Sounded like sober living. He was like, I need somebody to
• 1:05:25
  rehab these apartment buildings. You want to do it?
• 1:05:31
  Yes, you know. Now I get to, you know, also
• 1:05:33
  really. Yeah.
• 1:05:34
  So I was, you know, with, with him throughout that whole
• 1:05:37
  process man and Robert gave me an opportunity and unfortunately
• 1:05:43
  I should on it. Yeah, in time.
• 1:05:46
  Yeah, so unfortunately I you know meet never talked about it,
• 1:05:51
  he was no longer there but Again, you know, I always
• 1:05:56
  thought drugs or my problem. I had As you get into recovery.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah. You realize I have a lot more
• 1:06:04
  problems, you know? And women was one of those.
• 1:06:08
  Yeah, you know, and so needless to say I, you know, got fired
• 1:06:14
  from that job and ended up doing good for a while and got into
• 1:06:25
  another relationship and destroyed that and is the first
• 1:06:29
  time that I seen how much I hurt somebody.
• 1:06:32
  There was almost like a pattern. Yeah, you know, and just says
• 1:06:35
  just to watch what I'd cause which is now my, which is now my
• 1:06:39
  fiance Just watching how much I heard somebody because, you
• 1:06:45
  know, because I need outside, I needed used to need outside.
• 1:06:50
  Validation like that, you know. Again, your me say, I'm just,
• 1:06:54
  just a scared, little boy. And, and, and women fed me, you
• 1:06:59
  know, whether it just be to a conversation on the phone or in
• 1:07:02
  person, I needed that And I needed that all my life, you
• 1:07:08
  know. And again, you know, I do fear
• 1:07:11
  of Abandonment, you know, I just had a long list.
• 1:07:13
  A I needed that validation and just one moment, my fiancé is is
• 1:07:18
  amazing and but I still needed outside validation, so I
• 1:07:23
  destroyed that and step back out for a while.
• 1:07:26
  And now, I had almost a year. I had almost a year clean.
• 1:07:31
  No drinking. No drugging or nothing, you
• 1:07:34
  know, as Is my camel from prison, it was you know, just
• 1:07:38
  drinking it was right and high right now, and that's okay.
• 1:07:40
  But no, I realized I quickly became an alcoholic, you know,
• 1:07:44
  drinking all day every day. And just gave all that away,
• 1:07:47
  man. Gave it all away.
• 1:07:53
  My daughter's mom. She said, if you get high again,
• 1:07:59
  you'll never see your daughter again.
• 1:08:04
  Guess what Shane did? God, I exchanged on hike a good.
• 1:08:08
  That's why you won't catch me. I'll figure this out and it's
• 1:08:11
  going to be okay, because drugs are more important getting high
• 1:08:15
  is what just fed me. You know, it pushed all that
• 1:08:19
  down. I'm me, you know, and I just let
• 1:08:23
  that consumed me and and, and I didn't and nothing got in its
• 1:08:26
  way. Nothing God in Me and getting
• 1:08:30
  highs way. Where was the point where you
• 1:08:35
  figured out Shane's? Got a fork in the road.
• 1:08:41
  Going to take this Fork this time, this time you could be the
• 1:08:44
  real time. Ended up like I said.
• 1:08:55
  I'm using again, talking to Robert off and on and Robert
• 1:09:00
  told me one time soon. You done digging call me.
• 1:09:06
  By now, I am staying at a house out in the country by myself,
• 1:09:10
  which is something I've never done.
• 1:09:12
  So, I've always been with somebody, you know, female and
• 1:09:15
  other person. And and that was the first time
• 1:09:18
  that Suicidal Thoughts came to my mind.
• 1:09:21
  I was like, Again, I gave all my things away, another family and
• 1:09:27
  here I am alone. 47 years old, getting high alone again, same
• 1:09:34
  cycle, same cycle. It is.
• 1:09:39
  You're not you when you get this right?
• 1:09:42
  Why can't you get this ride? What are you doing?
• 1:09:45
  You know, and that was the first time I ever thought about
• 1:09:49
  suicide, you know, sitting there and just like stop.
• 1:09:54
  Stop it. All right here, you know?
• 1:09:56
  And of course I'm too much of a coward and push you to do that,
• 1:10:00
  you know it's just real, you know, there's no way you know.
• 1:10:04
  And so I quickly brushed that to the side and and, and one
• 1:10:11
  morning. Thinking all morning, like,
• 1:10:15
  okay, I'm done, don't dig and done digging.
• 1:10:20
  How can I tell, you know what am I how am I going to tax Robert?
• 1:10:23
  We can I say and he shot me a message and he was like oh he's
• 1:10:26
  like how you doing you done digging you know like a man and
• 1:10:35
  call me back he's like Alright you going to Jersey Get your
• 1:10:39
  shit together. Jersey.
• 1:10:45
  So, he sent me up to an another one of his spots.
• 1:10:48
  He's got his fingers on up, in up, in Jersey and it was an
• 1:10:53
  all-male facility. So I get up there and I'm like,
• 1:10:56
  where the women? And I like some mail facility.
• 1:10:59
  I'm like this dude, man, you got me, you know?
• 1:11:03
  And, and that's what I needed. I, you know, I just went up to
• 1:11:07
  the fruit group man and, and, and I needed that time alone for
• 1:11:11
  Shane to be okay with Shane. Mmm, you know, I'm ever going to
• 1:11:14
  the beach, You know, Jersey Shore and be like, well, I need
• 1:11:17
  a female here with me, you know, this isn't right?
• 1:11:20
  I got have a female and, and it was like, no.
• 1:11:23
  Like I had to embrace that just sitting on that beach, you know,
• 1:11:27
  and going to New York by myself with, not a female, you know, it
• 1:11:30
  was like, no, you just do this by yourself and so that's what I
• 1:11:35
  did up there. And, and, and I loved it, I
• 1:11:38
  wasn't coming back. Did I tell you earlier?
• 1:11:40
  I was selfish enough ever said that?
• 1:11:42
  I was extremely selfish, so I'm on the east coast and I'm loving
• 1:11:46
  it. I got a great thing going and
• 1:11:48
  I'm like, I'm not coming back, I've no reason to come back.
• 1:11:52
  You know, I got my daughter, but she can come up here and visit
• 1:11:55
  me, you know, that's where I was at.
• 1:11:58
  And then a one-day clicked, I was just like, hey, I'm here,
• 1:12:01
  you are again being so selfish, you know, you can try to figure
• 1:12:05
  out how to get her up to see you.
• 1:12:07
  When reality, you've created such a family up here.
• 1:12:11
  And why don't you go home and you guys can come back together.
• 1:12:14
  How selfish are you being again? And, and I mind you if my
• 1:12:20
  ex-wife said you'll never see your daughter again.
• 1:12:23
  And so I was like, hey, I'm coming going to come back and so
• 1:12:26
  I came back and I just embraced it this time, you know, a God, I
• 1:12:30
  started to dive into that because like I said earlier, my
• 1:12:33
  brother was killed. So I had nothing for any higher
• 1:12:35
  power over God, if anything like that.
• 1:12:37
  If you because if there is one out, you take us to do that when
• 1:12:40
  you let all These other weirdos walk this Earth You know, and
• 1:12:43
  talk about that for a long time and that's just part of my
• 1:12:46
  story, you know? And so I was like, okay I'm
• 1:12:48
  doing things differently than I got to keep an open mind, you
• 1:12:50
  know, and so I started to dive into, you know, trusting in God
• 1:12:53
  I believe in God and trusting the process.
• 1:12:56
  And so I, you know, doing that and now is that there's I
• 1:12:59
  started to work a program. You know, I started to live a
• 1:13:03
  lifestyle of recovery. Not just counting days.
• 1:13:06
  Yeah, kind of consistency. A discipline of.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah, you know, hey, you know, There is a difference and I
• 1:13:13
  feel, you know, of just, you know, I've got I've got nine
• 1:13:17
  years or I've got now years of recovery to me, though.
• 1:13:21
  That there's a big difference. Sure.
• 1:13:22
  That, you know, and that's why I say these days is like how much
• 1:13:25
  recovered you got in you because I, you know, I feel is a big
• 1:13:29
  difference between just counting days and actually, live in this
• 1:13:32
  lifestyle and applying to all these principles in my daily
• 1:13:37
  Affairs and that is of just the honesty.
• 1:13:40
  You know, the willingness to, to do what needs to be done.
• 1:13:44
  And that is talk about my insecurities with my spouse, you
• 1:13:47
  know, be open about those kind of things, you know, instead of
• 1:13:50
  just keeping those things in, or like I told you earlier that
• 1:13:53
  was, you know, when I was reading some of these vials and
• 1:13:55
  I was like, I don't, I don't deserve to be on this show, I
• 1:13:59
  don't have all these things, you know.
• 1:14:00
  But I talked about that with, with the minimum Network, like,
• 1:14:03
  hey, this is what I'm feeling, you know.
• 1:14:05
  So I do that these days, man. And and that's what you I think.
• 1:14:09
  What's so interesting about you Shane.
• 1:14:10
  Your story is so honest and You're vulnerable and that
• 1:14:17
  creates a realness, you know, authenticity is what, you know,
• 1:14:23
  ultimately, you know, if you're empathetic, You're vulnerable,
• 1:14:26
  you're open to letting what you feel out.
• 1:14:30
  So, you deal with, what you feel, then, you know, you start
• 1:14:33
  stepping towards the right things, you start stepping into
• 1:14:36
  good things. And that's a lot of people can't
• 1:14:39
  do that because they know, Never can break down that barrier that
• 1:14:44
  they're afraid of. You know, what happens if I
• 1:14:46
  break down this wall. What's on the other side?
• 1:14:48
  Can I deal with that? Yeah.
• 1:14:50
  What does that mean for me? Am I good enough to break down
• 1:14:53
  the wall? To get to the other side?
• 1:14:56
  Yeah. No, it is.
• 1:14:57
  And and me was just, you know, again talking about how I was
• 1:15:01
  feeling, you know, it's just something I didn't do.
• 1:15:03
  But I was like II, if things are nothing changes, nothing
• 1:15:06
  changes. You know.
• 1:15:07
  And again this is what Shane's been doing.
• 1:15:11
  Obviously we see that does not work, you know.
• 1:15:13
  So I was like, all right. I really, you know, I really
• 1:15:16
  want to embrace this different lifestyle and so that's just
• 1:15:20
  what I started doing. I really started whether you
• 1:15:21
  think of it too. Is, you would had bits and
• 1:15:23
  pieces. I mean, you had that feeling in
• 1:15:25
  rdap, you had that feeling when you would kind of run into
• 1:15:29
  Robert that moment and then you've went through that program
• 1:15:31
  and and read the book and you had pieces and glimpses.
• 1:15:35
  Oh yeah, yeah. So I'll get those little get
• 1:15:37
  those in a bit. Okay, so I know what it's like,
• 1:15:40
  you know. But I had to take those and then
• 1:15:42
  I had to dig deeper and then that's what, you know, that's
• 1:15:45
  what it kept going was. I do that just scrape some off
• 1:15:48
  the top? Yeah, that's good enough.
• 1:15:49
  Yeah, I know you gotta go down. I gotta keep digging in and it's
• 1:15:53
  why I don't stop because I've been doing and believe in and
• 1:15:57
  thinking this way for 30 plus years.
• 1:15:59
  Yeah you know, I'm 48 now. Yeah.
• 1:16:01
  You know and it's like okay so I don't you see that doesn't work.
• 1:16:05
  Change ways change will you know is not So where are you at?
• 1:16:11
  We're do you think you're at today?
• 1:16:13
  How do you feel what's going on in Chains?
• 1:16:15
  World, you know, again. Peace, man.
• 1:16:21
  I you know first time you've had piece.
• 1:16:24
  Maybe? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:26
  Like I it's to not worry what others are thinking of me.
• 1:16:32
  Yeah, to feel, which is huge by the way.
• 1:16:36
  Oh my gosh. Is it?
• 1:16:37
  Because of course I'm the most important in everybody's talking
• 1:16:40
  about me and thinking about, yeah, nobody is, they're busy
• 1:16:44
  with their own thoughts. Yeah.
• 1:16:47
  You know. But it's Dad.
• 1:16:48
  It's just to be able to be quiet my own head and and to to love
• 1:16:57
  myself too. Because again I keep saying this
• 1:17:00
  to talk about things and it was me that was huge.
• 1:17:03
  I didn't you know these days doing the right thing and and
• 1:17:09
  and putting in the action you know, my ex-wife you know I do
• 1:17:15
  have custody of my daughter these days you know I've got
• 1:17:17
  visitation all so you know, that is amazing and but it's just the
• 1:17:25
  Just a peacefulness, I have inside of me these days, man.
• 1:17:28
  You know, after walking, through all of it, all of that.
• 1:17:31
  And just what goes, what goes on in my head, you know, the
• 1:17:35
  thoughts and, and, and in the feelings that I myself.
• 1:17:39
  And again, I held all that shame in that guilt inside for so
• 1:17:43
  long. And that's what I like.
• 1:17:45
  I allowed to weigh me down, and hold me down all my life,
• 1:17:50
  because Who does these kind of things and who don't, you know,
• 1:17:53
  sir. Do you think that I'm just
• 1:17:55
  thinking that people listening out there, do you think that the
• 1:17:59
  peace you've learned through everything?
• 1:18:02
  Is that the thing that is able to push away the addiction that,
• 1:18:07
  you know, like you said, the fuck it omote, is that you've?
• 1:18:12
  You've gotten to this place that you you love and you feel and
• 1:18:19
  peaceful. You think that's the mechanism
• 1:18:22
  that keeps that motor running? Right way not to fall, and keeps
• 1:18:30
  track is teach driving for your where you're at.
• 1:18:33
  Yeah, no. I definitely agree.
• 1:18:35
  I, you know how I feel, I do not want to lose this, you know?
• 1:18:39
  And is that means, you know that I whatever, that is whatever
• 1:18:42
  they did is we had my 12-step meetings and my network of men
• 1:18:46
  and just in my you said something to Shane that I
• 1:18:49
  thought was good changing. The people that you're around
• 1:18:52
  obviously is a different thing too.
• 1:18:55
  And a lot of people don't even think about that but when you
• 1:18:59
  change the people that you're with and they're doing different
• 1:19:02
  things and they're doing things that you want to do in a
• 1:19:05
  positive way. You begin to act like and feel
• 1:19:08
  that way. Also.
• 1:19:10
  Yeah I said earlier I'm selfish and I'm still that way in my
• 1:19:14
  recovery because you're right because I only surround myself
• 1:19:18
  with with guys who have what I want and and that's that
• 1:19:22
  peacefulness desk that's a spirituality.
• 1:19:25
  Of it. And it's how they handle
• 1:19:28
  themselves in daily life and that's in that.
• 1:19:31
  You're right. That's who I surround myself
• 1:19:32
  with with guys. Who am I go?
• 1:19:36
  I want to be like you when I grow up.
• 1:19:37
  Yeah. And when I say I'm only like 10
• 1:19:39
  years younger than but still I'm just like two years.
• 1:19:42
  I want this, you know? So that's it's unfortunate.
• 1:19:45
  I try to tell people. I'm like, I don't mean to be
• 1:19:48
  like this but I need that in my life right now.
• 1:19:51
  Yeah, you know. So that's why it's raw myself
• 1:19:53
  with and it is, is people places And things.
• 1:19:55
  I mean if I want to go hang out because my job I hang out on the
• 1:19:58
  Block. Yeah.
• 1:19:59
  You know, and and I'll tell us about your job right now because
• 1:20:03
  I think it's a cool thing that what you do and I did until you
• 1:20:07
  and I talked about it Shane I wasn't even aware that it was
• 1:20:10
  something that we were doing as a society to do this.
• 1:20:13
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 1:20:14
  So I you know, I work for Chestnut Health Systems and
• 1:20:18
  Metro Transit System here in St. Louis wanted to bring a solution
• 1:20:24
  to the on how Was to do the mental health and addiction on
• 1:20:28
  the transit system. And so they joined up with chest
• 1:20:30
  out to be like, hey, what can we do?
• 1:20:32
  And so it started two years ago, on the train on the Illinois
• 1:20:36
  side and basically two people just riding the train doing
• 1:20:41
  Outreach and in a did well. So they want to implement that
• 1:20:45
  into St. Louis side and then the answer
• 1:20:48
  is what I joined onto last year. And basically, I hang out at the
• 1:20:53
  Civic Center Hang out at different platforms and ride,
• 1:20:57
  the train, just help people, you help people.
• 1:21:00
  Yeah. Boots on the ground as is we say
• 1:21:03
  and just on people that are in need.
• 1:21:05
  Yeah. You know, whether it be in
• 1:21:06
  passing out in our can't, whether it just be, you know, to
• 1:21:08
  listen to Somebody That Day, man.
• 1:21:10
  You know, sometimes, you know, we're able to get some people in
• 1:21:11
  the detoxes just today alone. I think I got like, five guys
• 1:21:15
  into a shelter, you know? Because I think it's actually
• 1:21:18
  the perks. We go with our phones and these
• 1:21:19
  apps and things. And yeah, you know, I think it's
• 1:21:22
  really cool shame because what's I think school, First of all, I
• 1:21:25
  think the program's cool. What I think is even cooler is
• 1:21:29
  that there's people like you that are involved in it because
• 1:21:32
  somebody who's in its homeless and you said on housed, you
• 1:21:37
  know, they're they've hit the there in the bottom Isles of
• 1:21:40
  whatever in their life, you can identify, you have empathy for
• 1:21:44
  that and those are the type things, you know, a police
• 1:21:48
  officer, helping, somebody that's fine.
• 1:21:50
  But for somebody to give somebody a hand that actually
• 1:21:52
  knows how you feel, no Those that, whatever that Vibe is,
• 1:21:57
  it's going on right now. That's the thing that makes the
• 1:22:00
  connection and I think that's just so cool that you found that
• 1:22:03
  and that there's a program out there that does that but they
• 1:22:06
  have the right people in that program to do that.
• 1:22:09
  I just Very cool, very cool. One of the things I said, what
• 1:22:15
  you know with what I've done it with myself or the tattoos.
• 1:22:18
  And it was like, okay, so you've done this to yourself.
• 1:22:21
  What can you do? Hmm.
• 1:22:24
  And it's like okay, what people are drawn to me because of my
• 1:22:27
  looks and in my story and if I can give back and help make a
• 1:22:32
  difference and okay then I'm gonna yeah I'm use what I got.
• 1:22:35
  Yeah you should hold and its role self them to me and if
• 1:22:39
  they're able to relate to me. Because of my looks and and use
• 1:22:43
  it all the way I talk. Then it's like okay that I'm
• 1:22:45
  going to use this up. That's what I got.
• 1:22:47
  You know. So I'm just using that man and
• 1:22:50
  and you know, I try to speak don't you think that's do you
• 1:22:54
  think that's a lot of what that is you know going through and we
• 1:22:58
  talked about this a lot on this podcast going through your worst
• 1:23:00
  fear and becomes your reality if you can use that and and those
• 1:23:05
  whatever strategies that you use to get through that Nightmare
• 1:23:08
  and help people with that. You know, that makes a
• 1:23:13
  difference and and you're making a difference in people's lives
• 1:23:17
  and that does feel you up that does give you that.
• 1:23:20
  Whatever that success ratio thing is, that's what sets you
• 1:23:24
  free. That's what sets you free and
• 1:23:26
  that's you know that's why I think you're absolutely perfect
• 1:23:30
  person for being on the podcast because that's what this podcast
• 1:23:34
  is about. You know, that people out there.
• 1:23:37
  Listening have struggled people out there, I'm sure.
• 1:23:40
  Listening I've been or might be in the exact spot you were in
• 1:23:45
  and to hear that you gridded it out.
• 1:23:48
  Didn't give up on yourself and then found a way to find
• 1:23:52
  something that helps more people that are struggling that you can
• 1:23:55
  empathize with, they can put them to another place.
• 1:23:59
  That's the good stuff. That's the good stuff, Shane,
• 1:24:02
  just bring it to just just just providing some hope and
• 1:24:05
  providing some old which is take hope away from something that
• 1:24:08
  you never want to do that because whole might be all they
• 1:24:10
  have. Romo said that one time friend
• 1:24:12
  of mine and I think there's it's a powerful statement.
• 1:24:15
  Yeah, I got to ask you this because I ask everybody this
• 1:24:18
  Shane. Those listening out there.
• 1:24:22
  What would you say? Is your biggest takeaway from
• 1:24:24
  all this that you've gone through live through what you're
• 1:24:27
  at? Now?
• 1:24:31
  Biggest takeaway. As far as I can like I finally
• 1:24:42
  love myself. Hmm.
• 1:24:43
  You know, that I am somebody. Yeah.
• 1:24:47
  You know. Yeah.
• 1:24:48
  You know. Which is the first step, right?
• 1:24:50
  Yeah. You know the first step is
• 1:24:51
  forgiving myself to know that I am no longer that person I used
• 1:24:55
  to be and you know, I did make a lot of terrible choices but said
• 1:25:00
  that's not where I'm at in my life these days.
• 1:25:01
  Yeah, so it's again if you want to judge a book by it's cover
• 1:25:05
  because it happens to me all the time and I love it if you want
• 1:25:08
  to judge a book by Cover. That's you not me but I'm an
• 1:25:11
  open book. Comes to my company comes up to
• 1:25:13
  my pages, you know, because I promise you, I'm not what I look
• 1:25:17
  like, you know, and that's what I love about.
• 1:25:20
  You know one thing about my looks is that people like you
• 1:25:22
  don't look you're nothing like you look and I might know I'm
• 1:25:25
  not who I used to be. You know, I love myself and and
• 1:25:32
  and I say this, but I I'm just a different person.
• 1:25:39
  I care and I love myself and I'm grateful for all the
• 1:25:45
  opportunities that I had and I'm also grateful for all the
• 1:25:49
  mistakes I made because it got me where I am today.
• 1:25:51
  Hmm. It's powerful.
• 1:25:54
  Gratitudes a big deal. And yeah, what you're doing
• 1:25:58
  right now is the reason why you are, who you are, because you've
• 1:26:02
  gone through and step through all of it.
• 1:26:05
  Good stuff. Shane.
• 1:26:08
  Big, big stuff. I love it and and just keep
• 1:26:11
  doing what you're doing for those out there love.
• 1:26:17
  You know, you guys like and and and, and Following the show
• 1:26:22
  share on the show. If you need a book out there for
• 1:26:25
  the holidays, hey, it's holiday season, get it nightmares.
• 1:26:28
  Success, it's on Amazon Barnes & Noble, Walmart.
• 1:26:34
  If you want to leave me a message, go to bring kasa.com,
• 1:26:37
  we'll talk. Conforth with you guys.
• 1:26:40
  Love the reviews on Apple Spotify that helps the show but
• 1:26:44
  it's better into the algorithm of whatever that world is.
• 1:26:48
  As I used to say when I was writing my e-mails back and
• 1:26:51
  forth at Leavenworth, stay strong.
• 1:26:54
  I'll do the same. I admire success in and out.
• 1:26:57
  Thank you Shane, thank you.