Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "A Podcast About Podcasts" with Kevin Hughes of "Tik Talking with Kevin Hughes"

Transcript

"A Podcast About Podcasts" with Kevin Hughes of "Tik Talking with Kevin Hughes" · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's in their discretion is advised.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: It has cultivated a whole new brand of celebrity and has redefined the notion of celebrity in itself.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me on the show today is a fellow podcaster by the name of Kevin Hughes.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: He and his podcast, TikToking with Kevin Hughes, has tapped into this new form of celebrity with the intent of telling the stories of the people behind the videos you see.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, since the dawn of the pandemic, TikTok has become a cultural phenomenon worldwide.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: No matter what your opinions are on who owns the software, how the software is run, it has become a necessity for everyday life.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a creative endeavor and you are not on TikTok, you are missing a huge piece of the promotional puzzle.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: This goes for musicians, this goes for comedians, anybody that creates any sort of artistic content whatsoever.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is my opinion that if you are not on TikTok, you are missing the boat.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: My next guest is a man by the name of Kevin Hughes.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: He hosts a podcast called TikToking with Kevin Hughes, and you can find it on all podcasting platforms, and you can find him on TikTok.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin, how's it going, man?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing good.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Michael, how are you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you for having me on the show.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, thanks for being here.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get right down to the brass tacks of it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: What inspired you to start this podcast that is specifically um ingrained in the TikTok culture?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like you said earlier, in the pandemic, you know, I was never really a social media guy.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I had Facebook, I had Instagram, I probably had maybe two photos in 10 years on Instagram.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I connected with family and friends on Facebook, but so during the pandemic, you know, I had seen things about TikTok, but it was mostly dance videos, and it it really wasn't my thing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I took a nasty spill and tore my ACL, mcl and lateral meniscus.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um had to have surgery during the sh during quarantine, so that was terrible.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and I opened up this TikTok app, and I for some reason the way their algorithm works, it connected me with with things that I actually was an interest to me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't see just dance videos, and it really got me thinking, like, oh, this is really cool.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I jumped on it and I started making these weird like videos that where I so I used to edit movies and TV shows, and so I would uh get a green screen, I'd put myself in the scene of a movie, and then I would reenact it with uh with just different lines to make it my own.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of blew up, and all of a sudden I had over a hundred thousand followers, and and I noticed how much people really loved these content creators, and you know, especially this new generation coming in, you know, for for me growing up, you know, I always idolized actors or or musicians, and these kids nowadays they really look for these social media creators, whether it's YouTube and now TikTok.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought to myself, I've always been a fan of podcasts, and I tried to start a podcast in in the past, and I just couldn't find something that I was very interested in.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one one podcast that I'm I'm very particular about that I listen to every single week is Armchair Expert with Dak Shepherd.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and yeah, he he's he's amazing, and he always interviews these celebrities and you know, these um authors and doctors and all kinds of different people, and I and I started looking around, and no one's interviewing these social media creators, at least to to the fullest.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like they'll have like they'll have guests on every now and again, but not every not consistently every week.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know what, this might be a good idea to bring some of these content creators on and give their fans a chance to hear who they are and not just what they see on TikTok and YouTube.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um, from that day on, basically, uh I did a lot of studying on the equipment I needed for a podcast, how to make a successful podcast, and then boom, TikToking was born.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sweet.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So creative endeavors for yourself before this, was there anything else that you were kind of involved with or into that maybe paved the pathway for you to do this?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've always had that creative personality.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I took acting classes when I was younger.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've always been into like making so growing up, I we were really me and my buddies were really into jackass and cky.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we would always have a video camera on us, you know.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And back then we didn't have the video cameras on our cell phones, so we, you know, we would lug one of those big handhelds around and and we would just film everything.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, we have videos, gosh, our our whole teenage life, and uh just doing crazy, stupid stuff, being crazy teenagers, and it's always been in my blood.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have not enjoyed anything more but to be creative and and really trying to involve myself and getting the attention of people.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of an attention whore.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's weird, but I really am.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and podcasting has just as especially as I've gotten older, I'm 38 years old now.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I just figure, you know, what can I do since I'm in Colorado, I'm not in LA, I'm not in New York, I'm not somewhere like that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do and still have people hear me?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I was just like, you know, podcasting.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I love listening.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, I can't even tell you the last time I even listened to a the song on a radio, it's always podcasts on my radio now, and then and I just I just fell in love with it, and now that's just um kind of turned into my my dream.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I did a live show back in July.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually did my podcast live in front of a live audience at at a theater and um had some really big TikTok stars actually fly out um to Colorado here and perform for my show and and be guests on my show.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh and I attempted my first my first attempt on uh stand-up comedy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So and I and I didn't fall on my face, so that was great.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really fun, man.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know yours uses both audio and video.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mine, for the time being, is audio exclusive.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I really wish my listeners could see us right now because we are telling similar stories, we share similar stories, similar, same exact background.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're wearing a black on black Dodgers hat, I'm wearing a black on black Yankees hat.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in a nutshell, you just talked about how your desire on your podcast is to expose the human experience, more or less, in not so many words.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that is exactly the concept of my show.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost serendipitous that we're here talking right now.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little bit about more about you, Kevin, and kind of your life, where you came up.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: You live in Colorado.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you give us your origin story, your personal origin story before all of this came about?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So grew up in Colorado.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, like I said, I always had that itch for the entertainment world.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So after high school, I actually went to college and got my animation and special effects degree.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And literally, like the week after I graduated college, I packed up my little car with whatever I could shove in there and moved my way out to LA.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I had one of those big box TVs, so half of my car was my TV.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So so I didn't bring much.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I moved out to LA and I didn't have a I didn't have a place to stay, I didn't have a job lined up.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just said, you know what?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 21 years old, I'm going for it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I drove out there and it was crazy.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: The next day after I got there, I stayed in a hotel the first night.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: That the very next day I had an apartment, and then uh about two weeks later, I had a job, a full-time job editing movies and TV shows.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now I went out there initially to to do the acting gig and then also work for someone like Pixar um with my animation degree.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, Pixar was on strike, so I decided, you know, maybe I'll I'll try something different.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of looked around and happened to jump or go into this Kodak.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked for a Kodak here in Colorado, uh perforating 35 millimeter film while I was in college.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the lady looked at my resume, she's like, Well, this is a complete different Kodak.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we actually edit the movies and TV shows that come in, and I said, Oh, okay.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, But let me make a phone call, and boom, the next day I had a job.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And really, it just um, I mean, I was doing crazy things, man.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, ironically, earlier I talked about how me and my friends grew up on jackass.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my first one of my first assignments was jackass number two, so I ended up uh working with all these guys and hanging out with all these guys, and I have Bam Marjera picking me up in his Lamborghini to go watch, you know, the 69 Eyes at the at um the whiskey of go-go, and it was just things like that.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they they took me to the Playboy mansion.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I got to hang out with Hef and all the girls and during this party.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm a nobody, so I'm just observing this and wishing I was somebody, you know.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But um, anyway, sorry, I'm kind of I'm kind of leading on.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so living out in LA, and then um my ex-wife, you know, planned on moving out there with me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: She was actually from from Colorado here, and about two weeks before she uh moved out there, we found out that she was pregnant with uh my first son.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I was still an apprentice out there, so you have to go through like a three-year apprenticeship.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um I just decided, you know, I think it's best that I move back home to Colorado.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Our families are here as much as it kills me, but I just don't want to raise a kid in in Hollywood with not enough money, and so anyway, um, I get here and um, you know, I'm working all these jobs I've just never been really happy with, you know.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I discover podcasting, and and the first person, and like most people, I discovered was Joe Rogan, and I refuse to listen to it because I almost got in a fight with Joe Rogan one time, believe it or not.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So he was doing stand-up, and and I was I was I'm good friends with Polly Shore, and I was at the comedy store in Hollywood, and he was doing stand-up that night.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was buying him drinks.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my buddy were buying him drinks, even though he drank for free because he was the headliner, but you know, we were doing out of respect for him, and um, you know, my buddy stood up in the middle of his act to go to the bathroom, and and we were front row, so Joe Rogan just completely nailed him.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, like, oh, your your life is worthless, go walk onto Sunset Boulevard and oncoming traffic.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I stood up and I was defending my buddy because my buddy's, you know, you know, he's five foot nothing, and um yeah, you know, I knew I I could fight, but I I know I'm not doing anything to Joe Rogan, he's gonna he's gonna beat my ass, you know.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, so anyway, um all was good, everything got worked out between all of us, but um, I I just refused to listen to his show, and then as I got older, uh it kind of grew on me, and I was like, God damn it, as much as I don't want to like it, I love the show.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I got introduced to Armchair Expert, and that's just been a huge impact.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and I thought to myself, this is this is what I'm meant to do, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I'm now I'm I'm remarried, so we're in a combined family.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I brought three kids, my wife brought three kids, and then we had one together, so we've got a Brady bunch going on over here, but um, yeah, it's uh I mean that's kind of my story up until this point.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's um it's been a it's been a ride, but uh but but a fun one.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So my introduction to podcasting was Talk It's Jericho with Chris Jericho.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the attrition from Jericho to listening to Rogan to going on and listening to other people like you know Dak Shepherd, and I work a lot with the uh MMA community, so I listen to Ariel Hawani and and uh Daniel Cormier and stuff.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So again, drawing another parallel to you, sir.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: You saw me just sitting here nodding.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, yep, I can that tracks that that follows the similar trajectory.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So so far on your podcasting journey, without like trying to pick a favorite child, is there a specific episode that sticks out to you more than the other episodes that you've done?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's really a tough one because you know it's what's crazy is about 90% of my guests, you know, I had never met before.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first time meeting them was on my show, and I've actually become really good friends with a lot of them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and we've built this relationship, but I think if I had to pick one, it would be um Rebecca Joe Dunham Barishelle.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was a model, she's married to actor Jay Barishell, and it was really weird because she was my fourth episode, and it was the first episode where I literally just sat back and I felt like I was having a conversation with a good buddy, and I had never met her before.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: We just had that weird connection, and um it was just it was really cool, and it really at that point made me I guess feel like this is what podcasting is because I think with the first you know three episodes I did, I was I was a little nervous, you know.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, how do I do this?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I don't stumble, I gotta make sure I do this, do this.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: But with her, it was just such a perfect flow.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was so comfortable that the flow just kind of you know, it was great, it was perfect, and um I think if anything stood out, I think that would be the one.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever worry about the prospect of pod fading?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you that are not familiar, pod fading um is a term, and I've actually brought this up on some of the videos that I've made in the past, is 75% of all podcasts that launch in a year cease to exist after that first year.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Every podcast kind of starts off strong, you get your friends and family into it, then you start to grow and you start to grow and start to grow, and then eventually you plateau, so you feel like the public is losing interest, so you start to lose interest, and then eventually that show kind of fades away.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever worry about that ever happening with you for full transparency?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I occasionally worry about that with myself.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest, it hasn't really crossed my mind, and the reason being is I mean, let's be real, I knew coming into this, there's already millions of podcasts out there, and I know it's a really hard industry to break into.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if I would have got into it in 2010, 11, it would have been perfect, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody at that time kind of that had a show kind of got big because there wasn't many out there, but I knew coming in that was kind of uh uh a possibility, and it was gonna be really hard to gain an audience, but I think with what my idea was and what I've done with mine with TikTok, I mean, TikTok is doing nothing but blowing up more and more and more, and there's unlimited guests on there.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're talking billions of people, you know, and um I think I'm gonna be able to hold on strong with guest-wise, because now I'm at the point where guests are coming to me because my podcast is so much well known, and and and that's nice because then I don't have to do it because that was a lot of work.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, reaching out to managers and emails and instagrams and dah da.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I really haven't thought of that, but I also in the back of my head has has said, okay, you know, right now where I'm at, I still have a full-time job, you know, but I still do this on the side, and and and you know, this makes a little bit of income, but I mean it's not it's not enough.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if that's all it ever is, then so be it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: But right now I'm just having fun with it and I'm not thinking about the what-ifs, I'm just trying to look uh look forward and always stay positive about it.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good, good, good for you.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I personally believe that consistency is the key to success and a key to preventing any kind of pod fading whatsoever.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh again, drawing another similar parallel.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's for my show in particular.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's kind of taken off a lot further than I thought it was going to.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought it was gonna be, you know, friends and family, you know, well, everybody's gonna be done in person.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna we're gonna sit down.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt that it was socially irresponsible to be doing a podcast in person during the peak of the pandemic.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I switched over to remote, and that's kind of what blew my show wide open because I was in the music industry for 20 years, so I got to exploit all those contacts that I had over that time, and you know, whether it be in the music industry or in the MMA world or other forms of entertainment, so I can definitely empathize and agree with your stance on where things are going.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask this because I know this is something that I run into as well.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that sometimes because podcasting is such an unconventional medium, it's not TV, it's not radio, do you feel that promoting it through social media is a little bit more difficult, but a necessary evil?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is very difficult.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it isn't um necessary because honestly, I don't think had like at be at the beginning, I don't think I would have been able to establish an audience or people would have been made aware of my podcast without you know constantly posting every episode on Facebook.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the problem I had was TikTok is very particular about what they kind of allow out to the world to um quote unquote the for you page.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it seemed like anything I put on there that was a clip of a podcast I had, an episode, or or anything podcast related, they just wouldn't send out.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I got, you know, I was only getting, you know, five, six hundred views compared to my thousands of views on my other videos, so that made it a little tough.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I think has helped me the most is when I connect with these people on TikTok, not only I'm going into their lives on some of them and asking them if they would be interested, if it's someone that I've been either seeking out or if I'm watching them and their energy is right, and someone I can have a conversation with.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so other people in their in their live stream, you know, if they have hundreds or thousands of people in there watching, are hearing their response to to wanting to come onto my podcast.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's attracted other people to my page, which I have links to my podcast on my page.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And but to answer your question, I'm sorry, I kind of go off a little bit.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's okay.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I do think social media is necessary.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, everybody and and their hamsters have podcasts, you know what I mean?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's really it's a really hard thing, and and that's why I think I jumped on YouTube as well.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really starting to establish my YouTube.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't anything for month months.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had, you know, just uh just the audio coming out, and I didn't really know how to do the YouTube.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I told you, I wasn't really a social media guy.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I would watch YouTube all the time, but I never knew how to really grow an audience on there, and I've really been studying, and um, so I started uh putting my podcast on YouTube, and that's been helping a lot too.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I just think you know it let's be real, uh, social media is free advertisement.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can pay thousands and thousands of dollars for advertising, or you just put it on Facebook and Instagram and see where it goes.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that's been good enough for me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's helped out, and then word of mouth has really grown my podcast to what it is today.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge that I've noticed is if you utilize Facebook by itself, Facebook is like a um echo chamber algorithm, so you're really just talking to the people that are already engaged with you, you're not finding any new users.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Instagram is similar, but Instagram.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram does a lot more suggestive advertising than Facebook does.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Where, and this is where TikTok, going back to the initial point, this is where TikTok is kind of becoming king because, in my opinion, it is the last pure algorithm that is not strictly driven by advertising.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where Facebook is driven by advertising, Instagram is driven by advertising, TikTok is driven by its users.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing that I personally like to do is flip back and forth between on my TikTok account between it being a personal account and a business account because I get different forms of engagement depending upon how I have the account set up.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hack for all of you that are looking to promote something through a TikTok.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But really the core of my question came down to this.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get nerdy about your listening statistics?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you check your listening statistics on the audio version of your podcast?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really was bad about it at the beginning.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of I kind of got to a point where I was getting overzealous about it and I was I was doing it too too much.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it was taking too much of my time, you know, like TikTok.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, uh ironically enough, you know, you get on TikTok and it's just hours of scrolling.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well I felt myself checking my my statistics at least twice an hour.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow and yeah and it was making me upset and and you know what I came to learn is well you're not getting any extra uh views this hour because it updates daily so uh you know so I'm like I'm um I'm getting frustrated at myself and I'm like why isn't this working but then the next day I'm like oh wait why is it working more at night and then I boom it clicked but um you know I I'm not too too worried about it anymore I think I have a big I've established a big enough following and audience to not really have to worry about it and I just kind of want to make this a fun thing and and just want to go with the flow.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure sure I and I I can totally appreciate that and where I was going with that is usually I will check my statistics in comparison to my social media engagement and it's like I'm not getting a lot of social media engagement but I'm getting a metric fuck ton of listens to my podcast so it's like how are they finding it right like how are how are they engaging otherwise if they're not directly engaging with me in social media how are they finding my show and listening to my show and the way the statistics work on podcasts and I'm sure you are already aware of this um the only ones that are accurately tracked are the downloadable sites so you're like Apple Podcasts and but Spotify is not necessarily accurately tracked because it's a streaming service so a person has to listen to X amount of time of your podcast for it to count as a listen.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know I get nerdy about that stuff every once in a while and as from one podcaster to another I just kind of wondered if you did too yeah and now that you say that I mean uh I I now I didn't realize that about Spotify honestly like like I said I I've I've kind of uh just let it be what it is you know and so I didn't I didn't I didn't do any studying on that so and I think Spotify is probably my most uh listened to uh platform yeah and um I I didn't realize they had to listen to the full episode so there could be uh actually more out there and and now you're gonna have my my wheels turning and I'm really gonna have to I'm gonna have to probably get off of this and and do some studying and do some more homework.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny you say that because when I started mine I thought Apple Podcasts was the thing I thought it was like everybody's listening to to podcasts through Apple Podcasts that is that is the end all be all and then when I started promoting mine it was like man it's so much easier to promote a podcast off of Spotify than any of the other platforms and there's hundreds of platforms out there.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah you know and I thought Spotify was it you know I did hear about Apple Podcast but at the same time I I didn't realize that Apple Podcasts was available to everybody I thought you had to have the iOS device and I knew spot like Spotify and iHeartRadio they're kind of everywhere you know and so I thought that was the place to be so once I was on Spotify I was like yes I made it you know and um and then when I got on Apple and I realized that you know they was available to anybody and everybody that um you know okay there is a lot more out there and I think that that those two especially are probably the biggest but you know I found that a lot of people listen to um breaker they they do listen a lot on Google and and honestly I've I've and this may help you for whatever you decide to do with your podcast but a lot of people enjoy watching podcasts more than they do just listening.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I've kind of turned towards YouTube.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and that's honestly uh personal critique of myself that's something I've really I've I'm very well aware of you know I I luckily or unluckily depending upon where your uh where your vantage point is I had COVID back in January so I I encoded all the episodes I had audio versions of the episodes that I had and put them on YouTube and I did have a little bit more engagement I had a spike of an engagement after I did that the only problem is is I'm not consistent with it and I kind of suck at it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I do eventually want to integrate a video portion and I've talked about this several times but I I want to make sure that I nail nail my structure down a little bit more first and that's actually where I was going to go with my next question.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: How has your interview structure or your interaction structure with your guests changed since you started the show versus right now so I always have uh a list of written questions um right and I felt at the beginning I was going off of the script more than I was just kind of free flowing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and and I feel like a a natural conversation and I have learned that a natural conversation always ends up being a better conversation and it's better it's easier to listen to it doesn't feel like dateline NBC or something you know where you're just like interviewing and pounding with questions and um and and so I still I still write up a list of questions but I only go to them if maybe the guest is nervous so they're not they're not talking as much as as they normally would or their their questions are very or their answers are very vague and and so I think mostly it has changed in that way it's kind of turned into less of an interview and more of uh two friends just kind of hanging out and getting to know each other.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know something I've experienced and maybe you've experienced it too is the moment I stop recording the best shit comes out.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes or or you remembered that one thing you wanted to ask me about and you're like shit you didn't even mention your podcast man like that was the whole reason you came on right right right no I don't know how many times and it's always with the biggest guests too and it pisses me off because I'll hit stop record I I won't say who but it's happened on two different occasions with very well known musicians that I've had on my show I'll give that clue and I stopped recording and then we've had gone on to have another half an hour long conversation remotely like this and I'm like why didn't I just let the damn thing roll yeah the best shit just happened and it's happened twice.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know and so on the flip side of that too I've also had guests so I don't really have like a time frame on my podcast I usually like to stick around an hour but I mean if it's flown and it's flowing good I just let it go and and I've also had it on the other side to where I mean we're like two two and a half hours in and I'm and I'm just beat and I'm like okay we got to end the show and then and then once we get off we still have another two hour conversation afterwards I'm like I'm like well this was really good stuff but I don't think people would love a five hour conversation episode you know but but yeah so I mean I totally understand that and I totally get it and and I've had the same happen to me several times um but I think you know I think and I've listened to your show your show's phenomenal and you have amazing guests and uh thanks man I I think what you've done and and where you've gone with it I I don't think you have anything to to worry about.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing just fine.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you I love the fact that two guys that are kind of doing a similar thing can kind of hash out the minutia of what goes into it because you know the people behind the scenes don't always understand that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: How many times is somebody that you know personally a friend from your personal life let's say you're doing a TikTok live and your purpose of doing the TikTok live is to promote your show and somebody that you know has crashed your TikTok live and is like inundating you with personal questions.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Has that happened to you actually it hasn't so so and um this is where I need to uh maybe do a little more but I don't go tick tock live very often I think um I just hadn't found my my reasoning behind it and I didn't think talking about my podcast was interesting enough to a lot of people at least the way I was presenting it to where they wanted to stay in the room so I just never felt for me doing a live was very it was you know it wasn't very it wasn't positive enough for me.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and and I found that being guests on other people's lives was more interesting to me because they know nothing about my podcast so I'm I'm talking to someone like I am with you and and I was having that interaction where with my live you know I would start something and and especially when you first start going you don't really have many people watching so I feel like I would start promoting my podcast and then the audience would be gone and then it would grow again so I'd have to start over I'm like in the middle of the conversation I'd be like okay where I was going and so I just don't use uh TikTok live that often so or any live I should say at all so I have not experienced the the personal friendship asking asking personal questions.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man like it it happens every single time which I'm okay with because it it gives you good talking points but man it's it's like when the wife's friends jump on and start asking me why don't you give a shout out to your wife and it's like god damn it I'm trying to promote my show here but you know one thing I found and one thing that I advise specifically my musician friends on is if a social media network has a live feature to it, figure out a way to leverage it because you will actually get genuine non-bot follows of people that are going to engage in your content even if you only get one.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I do a TikTok live I gain about 20 new followers now I don't have like I don't have nearly what you have as far as uh TikTok followers but but I do find a lot of success by doing lives and just picking random topics and trying to get people to engage in those topics almost like you're doing a live podcast very similar to what you did live in the theater there in Colorado.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to uh me and you need to have a conversation then because I think maybe you have have uh have broken that seal and and figured out what people want to see and what they want to hear and I just haven't yet so you and I maybe off the air need to have that conversation.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can help me vice versa too maybe maybe I need to I need to figure out how to get my follower count up and so we can help each other brother this could be a partnership here.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes let's do it I'm in sweet sweet so what are some things you're looking forward to in the next couple of months with the podcast honestly so having that live show I did in July has sparked a lot of uh unforeseen opportunities um I had so many people interested in in the live show and um I so for example there was a a producer at my live show and came out to me after the show I had no idea who it was and he's like hey uh so we're filming this pawn stars on on the road um here in Denver and that's why I kind of showed up to this and uh I think you'd be great so you want to come film with pawn stars on Sunday so like I'm on an episode of Pawn Stars that comes out I don't know in a few months or something and also it has uh sparked the attention of people wanting me to take the live show on the road I've had um some opportunities in Vegas and possibly New York and LA and um really I'm looking forward to that that's what I want to do that I mean I absolutely loved it and um and bring this podcast to a live version you know and um I the only problem I have is trying to figure out my my time constraint.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said I have I have a full-time job on top of this so it's really really hard like you only get so much vacation a year right so I gotta figure out at what point do I need to say okay well maybe uh podcasting is what I need to do full time for it to be successful and I got I gotta let go but um uh we gotta convince my wife about that first because she's not she's not on board about that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um but yeah I I think that's most exciting for me and and I have some really cool guests coming on the show um here soon and you being one of them uh we're doing a show swap which is awesome.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes and uh um I'm just I'm just excited to see uh how far I could take this thing you know I I at first I thought it would be a cool little side hobby and now it's kind of turning to could this be my full-time job soon right now so we're just kind of waiting and seeing so who's a TikToker that is your big get or name name a few TikTokers that are your big gets who are the ones that you really want to have on your show that you haven't had on yet that maybe you've had a hard time reaching um because that that that could be another area where we help each other brother sure yeah um so Mr Beast um I've been trying to reach him he he's he's more in the YouTube world but I it would be very fascinating to to really talk to him I mean he went from a million followers in 2017 I think it was to I don't even 45 million or whatever he has now on YouTube and uh and and he would be very interesting just to kind of uh learn how he he kind of progressed in the social media world um another person I would love to talk to would have to be uh Haley and Kendra I don't know if you know them on TikTok um but they are a gay couple they recently got married and they are just the most down to earth cool chill girls I've ever seen in my life and um I think they would be a blast to have on and you know honestly there's so many there there really is.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the the creativity on TikTok is kind of endless because it's like every day I find someone new that I'm just like holy cow this guy or this girl is extremely talented I want to talk to her you know so so it's it's not just it's not just one person I want to talk to I I it's a hard question I'll be honest.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: It really is so I'm kind of all over the place but if I had to choose two guests for for the next week or two those ones would be the ones yeah for sure it's funny because I always feel awkward asking somebody from TikTok to do the show that's like hey I I think you'd be a really good fit for my podcast and like a podcast I've never even considered being on a podcast before have you run into that too I have yeah it's um there they're so I'm about 60 40 about 60% of them have said yes I love doing podcasts I've done I've done a bunch of them but other 40 the other 40 are like I have never done a podcast I don't know if I'd be any good on a podcast and and you know that's when I say let me message you my my information and let's have a conversation and then I can tell them you know like hey I understand it's a little nerve wracking and you don't know what you're gonna say but I have everything in line and and the show will be prepared enough for you to just sit back and uh and and really just talk to me you know answer some questions and and we'll have a good time.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah usually my spiel is check my shit out look at my content maybe listen to an episode or two and realize that everybody's kind of on the same playing field here.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah for sure well sir this has been fun this has been kind of the podcast about podcasting yeah very meta yeah you know it's uh I I like this I I like being on the the other side of the mic you know like I'm so used to being the the interviewer quote unquote and and not the the question answerer and and so I kind of like it I kind of like talking about myself you know I'm attention whore I told you that earlier so I kind of like talking about myself and and and telling people what I've done.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah for sure well I'm glad we got to connect and uh I'm looking forward to doing your show as well um because I have a feeling mine is going to be far less about podcasting more about music when I do your show and those that have known me for a long time can they probably listening nodding their heads at that so this is awesome man uh it's been a pleasure connecting and uh man I tell you what Kevin the world's a better place with you and it sir uh thank you I appreciate you and I appreciate you having me on the show and to go along with your music thing I've heard some of the guests that you've had on and uh what you've talked about and we have a similar taste in music as well so I think we're we were meant to do this man.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes well the first of many my friend the first of many.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right sir thank you very much all right brother you take care once again I want to thank Kevin Hughes for being on the show today.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you check out his show TikToking with Kevin Hughes on all forms of social media especially TikTok and look out pretty soon your boy Michael Clark is going to be making an appearance on TikToking with Kevin Hughes very soon.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you give me a follow in all forms of social media by searching out Clock on the mic it will have my ugly mug as the profile picture and give me the five star review on Apple Podcast app as well as the Spotify app.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can also check me out online at wwwnthemic dot This has been caught on the mic with Michael Clark I'm Michael Clark until next time thank you