Latest / Mental Health Matters for Christians / Ep9 Why We Leak Love: Understanding Your Sense of Being | Lin Button

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Ep9 Why We Leak Love: Understanding Your Sense of Being | Lin Button · Mental Health Matters for Christians

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This is more about deprivation to an extent.
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Deprivation is very difficult to identify.
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So I think a sense of being is about us understanding our
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identity in God. It's about knowing who we are,
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which of course it has both the one of nine, who we are in God,
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but also nine who we are as part of their family or part of
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humanity. And then it is the feeling of
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connectedness. Can we say that somebody who
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struggles with a solid sense of being that they come to that
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it's a struggle that happens through no fault of their own.
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Hey everybody, I'm Christine Sneeringer.
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Welcome back to the Mental Health Matters for Christians
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podcast. In today's episode, I am
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interviewing Lynn Button, who has an inner healing ministry
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based in the UK, and this was a conversation that took place a
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few years ago when I interviewed her for a class I was teaching
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for Why Wham Youth with a Mission.
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I wanted to introduce my class to the concept of sense of
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being, which is something that Lynn teaches on in her
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conferences. And I first heard about this
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concept, sense of being from Leanne Payne, who also had an
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inner healing ministry based in the United States.
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So Lynn is going to unpack what exactly is sense of being and
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how she goes about praying for those who need healing in this
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area. So let's get into it.
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The first thing I was going to ask if you could give us like a
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5 minute like introduction, who you are, you know how you came
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into the kind of ministry that you do and even make sure we, I
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want to make sure we tell people how to find your ministry
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online. OK, OK, well I'm the founder of
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the Healing Prayer School and you can find that online.
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It's Healing prayerschool.org.uk and I've founded that in about I
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think late 1990s because I needed some vehicle to make it
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with charities and all of that. And then before that I'd been
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just speaking and I'd slowly formed A-Team.
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And I'm someone I've never had a grand plan.
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It's just been very organic. And I started, I was converted
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when I in the middle 1970s. And the second book I read was
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Agnes Sandford's Healing Light and then The Healing Gives the
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Holy Spirit. And I thought everyone prayed
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like that. I didn't, I didn't know that
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that other people weren't. So when I first turned up at our
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traditional Anglican church where I'm on staff now and still
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belong, I didn't think anyone was a Christian because they
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were such a million miles from my experience.
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I'm praying like Agnes. And after about 3 or 4 years, I
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started with my partners to pray for people.
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We had words of knowledge and pictures and you know, we were
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just people were getting transformed.
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And someone came to me in in about 1984 with Leanne Payne's
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book Crisis and Masculinity and gave it to me and said, here's
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someone who prays like you. So I've read the book.
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And what Leanne did for me was she gave language to what I
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intuitively knew, but I didn't have the language for it.
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It wasn't quite Agnes, you see, because Agnes was struggling for
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language and Leanne gave language to it all.
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So I imported 30 of her books. I've never done it.
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I've never done it before. I've never done it since.
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And I distributed it to our ministry team at church.
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So wait, 30 copies of that book that you had read?
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Yeah, crises and masculinity. OK, because when you said thirty
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of her books, I thought you meant 30.
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Just that one book. I didn't know she'd written
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anything else. Yes, yes.
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And then my friend Dave Blackledge said, oh, this is
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amazing, she's amazing. And she's got a conference in
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Canada. Do you want to come to Canada?
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And I said, Oh no, no, I don't like her.
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But no, I don't know Canada. But anyway, he gave that sort of
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person, he pursued it with then secretary, and she was coming
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out to Germany to private prisoning.
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And so she was going to be in a castle.
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And you know, I guess in order to cover the airfares, they've
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done a mini conference around it of 40 German leaders.
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So Dave and I went with some people from our church and there
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was another few English people there from other churches.
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And we went to hear her and I was talking to her breakfast and
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I said, why don't you come to the UK?
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She said no one's invited me. So I said, oh, Dave will so.
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So we set up a conference with London School of Economics for
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her. And that was, yeah, since.
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And then there was a conference on that and then that became a
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charity and then Andy Kaminsky I met and so that sort of became a
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UK thing and then Clay McClain and Mario Bogner.
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One time my husband and I were running 4 charities out of this,
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some house, and we didn't want to do any of them.
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I mean, I can't tell you how reluctant we were, but we wanted
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to launch it and get other people to do it.
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That's all we wanted to do, which of course we managed to do
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in the end, but meanwhile, and I was still see people praying to
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people and doing conferences myself, so yeah.
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Now, I heard of you from one of my professors when I was
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studying at Wickliffe Hall in Oxford.
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He told me about your ministry. And he said, he said, have you
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ever heard of Liam Pine? I said, of course, you know,
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because of my background in ministry.
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And he said, do you know Lynn Button?
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I said, no. He said, well, she's like the UK
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version of yes, although you would say Leanne was is the
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American version of you, right? Well, that's what Mario Fergner
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used. To say yeah.
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But I think it would be fair the other way around, because, as I
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say, she gave me language and she was an academic and she knew
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much more about different aspects of things than I ever
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did. I'm just very intuitive.
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OK. And then you kind of, would it
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be fair to say you were her protege?
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Is that too strong of a word? That's too strong a word.
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I mean, he travelled with her for what, 30 years?
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Yeah. I was, I travelled with her, I
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did all with UK, all the European, all the Scandinavian,
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all those conferences for her. I often used to go ahead of her
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and train the team, OK, the house team, whether it was this
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Danish or the Dutch or whatever. So I would go ahead for training
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the team maybe two or three months before hand.
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So I I think she viewed me as her head of the UK ministry.
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OK, OK. Thanks.
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UK, European side of things, yeah.
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Sure, sure. And you still do like a annual
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conference in the spring like well, you do smaller ones, but
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you do one usually in the spring, right we.
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Do one in the spring of oh, Saints, which wells one in the
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ultimate sometimes and then I've been in horror.
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No, I'm going to Holland in the spring.
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I've been in Copenhagen, finished Glasgow.
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So yeah, we do weekends everywhere.
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My strategy because people always say what's your strategy?
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And I really haven't got one. But my strategy is if someone
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invites me and and the diary is free, that at that point the
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answer is yes. That's well, you know, that's
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what did God say. Was it Isaiah who will go?
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And you're like, you're exactly, exactly.
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That's your Yeah, that's it. All right.
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So, well, thank you so much for that introduction.
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And it's real privilege to get to talk to you.
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I have been to your conferences, you.
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So the typical format is there'll be a lecture.
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I don't know if you would call it a lecture, a teaching.
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And then if that is, if the the topic that you teach on is
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something that people feel like, oh, that's me, then you invite
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those people for prayer on that. And yes.
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And you call that is. Would that part be called inner
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healing prayer? Or just healing prayer or in a
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healing prayer. I don't mind.
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I don't mind. People call it.
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Yeah. And The thing is that the
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conference is why we get such a big response, which, as you
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know, you've been there. And we we get at least half the
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room come up wherever we are, sometimes virtually the whole
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room. The reason for that is that we
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meet as a team every Thursday and we ask God for words of
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knowledge and we ask God for pitches.
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And so every conference is tailor made.
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So the teaching will include it will be shaped in such a way
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includes what we think God's been saying to us over the
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precedence Thursdays. So and so you're saying that's
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year round you guys meet? Yeah, every Thursday.
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OK. I've been doing so since 1998.
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That's commitment right there. So we are very, very close team.
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Yes OK, that's that's beautiful Well the topic that I I asked
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you if if we could talk about is one that I'll just say it this
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way. OK, I knew that I needed, but I,
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I don't know how to explain it. And so that's why I was like, I
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wonder and if Lynn, who I see as an expert, could help put words
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to this particular thing. So because I want to expose
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people to this concept to not just for the exposure, but even
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if for others who need healing, because I'll be, I'll be
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teaching on sexual abuse. And I'm, I know that's a
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population that would struggle with sense of being.
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And I'm certainly others as well.
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Like, I don't know, you maybe could explain like, well, first
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maybe could, if you could explain what sense of being is.
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And then two, maybe who I was going to say who needs it, but I
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think everybody does, right? Maybe not everyone.
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OK. Yeah.
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Well, I mean. I mean, if you don't need it
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through an experience like what you provide in your conferences
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that you needed, OK, so maybe I'm saying this wrong, but it's
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like we need it to get along and.
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And we all need a solid sense of self.
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Yes. OK, OK, OK.
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So we need that and. Some people, some people with
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more fortunate backgrounds than most people I minister to, would
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have a a sort of a beginning of a good sense of self in which
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God can build. Yes.
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Yeah. But that isn't true for all of
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us. That's what I meant.
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Everybody needs it, but some may have gotten it in their family
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of origin, growing up in a more functional family.
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Correct. That's not true for an awful lot
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of people even when they think their family is OK.
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In fact, that deprivation which is this, this is more about
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deprivation to an extent. Deprivation is some very
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difficult to identify. Yes, Can you?
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I want to hear you define it. I mean because.
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I define it. I've looked it up on the
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computer, I've tried to find a definition and so please explain
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what it is because I I cannot OK?
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I think sense of being is a mixture of identity and
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connectedness. OK.
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About us understanding our identity in God.
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It's about knowing who we are, which of course it has both the
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one of nine, who we are in God, but also nine who we are as part
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of our family or part of humanity.
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So that's identity. And then it is the feeling of
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connectedness. And I'm going to talk about as a
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felt experience that we need to feel connected to God and we
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need to be able to be connected to other people in a healthy
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way. So I think a sense of being is a
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mixture of identity that is reinforced by our connectedness,
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by our relational understanding of gods and each other.
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All right, can I ask you if, and I totally as as a woman of
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faith, I concur with all that. But but as we, as we met said a
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moment ago, everybody needs it. So what about?
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I mean I don't want to like do people need it who don't know
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God? I guess, but their awareness of
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it may be much more just a sense of emptiness.
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OK, so do so basically what you're saying.
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You can't really have a healthy sense of being without a
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relationship with God. I, I'm saying that it fulfills
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the sense of being. I mean, some people seem to get
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along quite well. And as I say, if you come from a
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really solid, healthy family, you seem to be able to survive.
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If you are don't come from a healthy solid family and you
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have no sense of being and then without God you are seriously
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lost. OK, so all right, All right.
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OK. Yeah.
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I was just thinking for anybody who, you know, maybe says, well,
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that sounds good. I don't know if I want God, but
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I say I want a solid sense of being, you know, is that is
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that, is that possible? Yes.
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OK. Can you talk more about that?
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You said a sense of connectedness.
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Yeah, OK, let's let's talk about it then as its roots and and our
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understanding of it. So on a scriptural basis, our
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sense of being is because God is the source of all being.
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OK, OK. In Extras 314, God replies to
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Moses. I am who I am.
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It is the verb to be. Yeah, we say he's the great I
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am. Right, he's the great I am,
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which is being. OK, OK, OK.
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I did not ever see that connection to to sense of being.
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That's the theological root of it.
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How? Wow.
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OK. God is being.
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He's the source of all being. The back of my head just blew
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off. And again, if someone is very
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nervous of psychological terms, then we've got Genesis 11 and
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two, the opening of the Bible. It says in the beginning God
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created the headless in the earth.
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The earth was formless, empty, darkness covered the deep
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waters, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of
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the waters. Now in the message, it's caused
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that bottomless emptiness. Now bottomless emptiness is what
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people describe to me when they have no sense of being, they
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fall into an empty place. They're on the edge of
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emptiness. They feel that it's has no
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bottom. They have no foundation.
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We've got this place inside us. And so about the the opening of
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the Bible is the Holy Spirit hovers over that.
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And I'm no Greek expert, but I understand that it's a sort of
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feminine hovering like a a mother bird hovering over eggs.
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It's got that concept to it. OK.
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And so we're theologically, we've got this whole idea that
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we're meant to not live in chaos.
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We're meant to experience within ourselves.
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Part of creation is that we are well formed internally, so if
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you link that with the I am. Yes.
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Then you start to say how it's God who comes and forms being in
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US. OK, well and then you've got the
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phrase or what we're called. We're called human beings.
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Yes. Not human doings, I might add,
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just as a bypass. We are called.
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We are called human beings. So, so being is right there in
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our I don't know what you call that what we are like, OK.
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Our identity is what you call it, OK?
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All right, OK, now keep going. Yeah, because you look like
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you're looking at your notes, so I want to hear.
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OK, so if we take Psalm 131 in the message, which is just a
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brilliant translation, it says, God, I'm not trying to roll the
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roast. I don't want to be keen at the
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mountain. I haven't meddled where I have
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no business or fantasize grandiose plans.
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I've kept my feet on the ground. I've cultivated a quiet heart
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like a baby content in its mother's arms.
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My soul is a baby content waitress Rava, God wait with
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hope. Hope now, hope always now.
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We cannot wait like a baby content.
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If we are anxious, empty, have no sense of being, nor do we
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know how to hope. Well, we can't wait.
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We're anxious and of course we then it's the most wonderful
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song. We then live in our heads
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because it's so painful. We don't know who we are and
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it's empty. So we do.
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We want to roll the rules. We want to prove we're OK.
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We want to be king of the mountain.
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We fantasize Grande other plans because we don't know how to
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keep our feet on the ground. OK, so when you were just
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describing that, it took me to thinking about like and so I
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just want to make sure I'm I'm not putting words to it that are
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not but performance orientation where I'm getting worth from
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from my human doing what you just said.
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Exactly. OK, that's exactly now.
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That's how people live when they haven't got a secure sense of
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being. They have to prove their worth.
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Yeah, I would. They can't go there.
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They that because that is empty and lonely and it's why it's why
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we self medicate with drugs and everything else.
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To put it in, I know that I've heard you quote Brené Brown,
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which I love her work and she talks about hustling for our
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worthiness. Yes.
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So if you don't have sense of being, you're going to hustle
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for your worthiness. Correct.
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OK. And so and she also uses the
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word and I'm curious what you think if it applies in this
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situation. She she talks about the
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wholehearted. Yes.
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OK, would it be a similar concept?
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Let's just back go back a bit bit actually.
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You see a lot of this lack of formation about being can begin
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in the womb. It's before we read a boom,
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although we're one part of our brain isn't able to remember it.
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Another part of brain is recording what is happening in
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the womb. And so we're we're literally
19:49
marinated, for want of a better word, in the womb in whatever's
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coming from mothers. So we're sensitive to our stress
19:58
or adversity, to our mental illness.
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It's sort of like osmosis. Well, and you said marinate, so
20:08
I think of the embryonic fluid, right?
20:10
That's right. And so and then let's say your
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mom didn't want to be pregnant. Like don't.
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Say that. Yeah.
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And so, so you have, they have a child.
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I don't want this child. And then the child comes to, you
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know? So the child is in the in the
20:25
womb, not being wanted. Right.
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Not being known already. Now suffering from rejection.
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Yes. Yes, and that and the neural
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pathways in the mind are being formed.
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It would with some sort of lies. In fact, I'm not wanted,
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therefore there's something wrong with me.
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You know, no one will love me. The world will not be a safe
20:49
place. Whereas when the baby is
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marinated in a wanted, healthy mother, they are all believing
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I'm welcome. I have a place here, I am
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wanted, loved and accepted, so if a baby arrives like that,
21:12
then of course I've got some capacity to receive love.
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OK so so it can start even pre birth?
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Yep. But I would say so even though
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let's say there is a wanted child and they're born into a
21:30
family where maybe for whatever reason mom and dad are too busy
21:35
to give the child what they need, then you can still tell a
21:37
bit even if you had a good prenatal.
21:40
So you get born, let's say, and then you there's no interaction
21:43
with mother for whatever reason, too busy, whatever.
21:48
Then baby shuts down. I mean, in fact, it shows to go
21:53
back to a not wanted baby very often babies that struggle to
22:00
feed at the breast will have been babies have experienced
22:03
rejection or and they're bought of attempt.
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Oh wow, OK, and so there are all wow research around all of this.
22:13
So, but when mothers not emotionally available after
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babies born for whatever reason, and then the baby is confused,
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baby, well, it's reaching out to mummy, signaling to mummy.
22:28
But if mum is depressed or there's a lack of nurturing
22:32
skills or she's too busy, she can't make those signals.
22:36
So that closes down and what should we be received from
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Mummy, which is the love and the acceptance and the being doesn't
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happen. Have you?
22:51
Are you familiar with the Still Face experiment?
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No. OK, it was an experiment.
22:57
I don't forget. What if it was this 60s or
22:59
whatever where they did with children where they have the
23:03
like a well, it would be supervised.
23:07
So you have the infant and the mom and when I think it had to
23:10
do with attachment theory kind of, but.
23:12
Well, they said within some course there's attachment theory
23:14
that I'm talking about from a different aspect.
23:17
OK, so this whole thing is under attachment theory.
23:19
Yes. OK, Yeah.
23:21
So it was it was the still face experiment where you've got a
23:25
baby and then the mother in the same room and the mother is
23:28
engaging the baby, engaging the baby.
23:30
And then the one conducting experiment says, OK, now I want
23:33
you to like completely get still face and and and and just don't
23:40
react to the baby. And then you see the baby like
23:44
just trying to get the mother's attention and, and, and going
23:47
into a, like a, a breakdown, you know, because there's no
23:52
attunement when there's, when the baby realizes I cannot get
23:55
her attention and they film the whole thing.
23:59
And then they, they don't hold that for long because the baby's
24:02
going into like trauma, you know?
24:04
Exactly. Yes, and it's but they show it
24:07
on the street, you know, and, and you can see it.
24:10
So it's set. It reminded me of that, you
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know? Absolutely.
24:13
So that's what I'm talking about.
24:17
Basically, when a baby is born all around the world intuitively
24:25
to play mummy strokes baby's head, runs her hands down his
24:31
arms, checks his fingers, looks at his toes.
24:37
Now what she is doing is creating a boundary while
24:43
staying connected because baby doesn't know he's separate from
24:47
Mummy. First of all, he's on the inside
24:51
of Mummy. Now he's on the outside of
24:52
Mummy, but he's still Mummy as far as he knows.
24:55
And so that is the beginning, in a healthy beginning of
25:00
connectedness and separated boundaries.
25:07
Mummy A healthy mummy looks into baby's eyes and pours in love.
25:13
That's attunement, right? Yes, yes.
25:17
Unhealthy mummy. Depressed mummy.
25:21
Either pause in depression or anxiety, Nervousness.
25:28
Or doesn't even look into baby's eyes, right?
25:30
Or doesn't even look into baby's eyes.
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And when baby tries to look into mummy's eyes, he falls into
25:36
pause of nothingness. OK.
25:42
Healthy Mummy has been speaking to baby and Healthy Daddy has
25:46
been speaking to Baby even in the womb.
25:49
Yes, I've seen, I've seen mums do that where they've got the
25:52
and they're just. So when baby's born, maybe
25:56
recognise his mummy's voice and there's been endless experiments
26:00
to show that they recognise daddy's voice, up up against all
26:03
other mushrooming voices will turn at birth.
26:07
OK. All right.
26:09
And so healthy mummy speaks, whereas unhealthy, depressed or
26:17
not emotionally available don't even speak because there needs
26:21
to be a continuous connected signalling.
26:26
Needs to be ongoing. Ongoing.
26:29
Yes. For how long do you think?
26:32
Only I would say that it need that.
26:34
Basically you needed to be with the child for three years.
26:38
Generally OK. Of course this never happens now
26:41
because mums go back to work. Yeah, but so so.
26:45
But I think that's, I personally think that's OK because if
26:48
they're there in the evenings, in the mornings and weekends,
26:51
that's. What I was going to say can a
26:53
working mother still and still a sense of.
26:56
I think so. OK.
26:57
But probably just has to be intentional, right?
26:59
But it has to be very intentional.
27:02
Whereas if we go back 40 odd years, good moms were just
27:06
around all day and down. It would became much easier in
27:10
that sense because it was didn't have to be intentional.
27:13
It just was if you were. Healthy, but then you could also
27:17
have a stay at home mom who's still not.
27:19
Oh my goodness, yes, the unhealthy ones.
27:22
Yes, yes. So there's lots of different,
27:24
you know, scenarios. I just don't want anybody to to
27:27
hear this and think Oh my God, I've ruined my.
27:30
It's all it's all durable. Yes, OK, good.
27:35
Somebody who was put up for adoption because that can be a
27:37
real trauma to know oh, I I wasn't wanted they gave me to
27:41
another family. How did those how does somebody
27:43
like that get to experience sense of being?
27:46
OK, well I I've got an adopted child.
27:52
Basically, if the parents are Christians, it does need the
27:56
prayers of the parents, adoptive parents, because they're at the
28:01
deep level. There is a very deep run into
28:04
projection. Someone has given me away.
28:08
And for all your words about, oh, no, we, we chose you.
28:10
And underneath that it was, yeah, but someone else gave me
28:15
away. And so it's a very deep run into
28:18
projection. And I think really a lot of
28:24
adoptions aren't successful for all sorts of reasons, but if you
28:30
have a help, you know, baby and you're able to pray for them
28:34
when they're asleep every night for connectedness, sense of
28:37
being, then that that will bring the child through.
28:40
God doesn't miracles, of course. OK, I love that.
28:44
OK, good is is the mother the best parent to bestow?
28:50
If that the right verb bestow a sense of being or impart a sense
28:54
of being is is the is that the mother's job?
28:56
Is she the best one best suited as the nurturer or can you talk
28:59
about mother and. Father.
29:01
No, I think she's the ideal one. That doesn't mean that the
29:04
father or even a very healthy grandma or nurse won't do as
29:10
good a job. I mean, I think Martha, because
29:14
she, the baby's been in mother's wound.
29:16
It's obviously the room. It's obviously the easiest way
29:19
route, but it's not the only route.
29:22
OK, good. Yeah, I just want to because
29:24
there's all kind of scenarios. Yeah.
29:27
OK. All right, So you, you mentioned
29:30
that you're going to get into the prayers.
29:32
I want to describe for me and and ask you like, OK, a
29:39
conversation I had with my therapist where I feel like it
29:42
pointed to, let's say, a lack of sense of being because I want
29:45
people to be able to say, OK, you know, obviously if somebody
29:48
hears this, they're going to be already be an adult, you know,
29:51
right. So it's like this too late for
29:53
whatever they needed when they were little and all this anyway,
29:55
just yeah, I want people to understand it and then certainly
29:58
want to create a healing, an opportunity for them.
30:01
And but I want to share a little bit about.
30:04
OK, so I remember one time this when I was at school at at
30:06
Wickliffe. OK, So this is only in the last
30:09
few years. OK, I struggled in my first
30:13
year, especially because I was in a program with I was an
30:16
apologetics course and there were a lot of 20 somethings and
30:19
I was, you know, a lot older, old enough to really to be their
30:23
mothers old and older than some of their mothers, you know, so
30:27
they so it was it just a big, it was a generation gap really.
30:31
And so I struggled because I didn't always fit in like
30:36
socially, like didn't get included in some things because
30:40
I because of my age and that was difficult, right.
30:44
I feel like I basically went back to junior high school, you
30:47
know, you know, the cliques in junior high school.
30:50
And I don't really know anybody who enjoyed junior high school
30:52
the first time. And so to go back at middle age
30:55
is trauma. But I remember to I was in, I
30:58
ended up in therapy as a result of all this, right?
31:00
And I'm talking to my therapist about it and I'll make this
31:07
brief as I can. So I was the one in my class
31:11
that wanted to make sure people didn't feel rejected because I
31:14
know how awful that is, right? And the first girl in my class,
31:18
her birthday was in October. School started the end of
31:21
September. And I knew she was having a hard
31:23
time because we'd come from all over the world and, you know, 24
31:28
students from six continents, that was my cohort.
31:30
So I want to make sure her birthday was acknowledged.
31:32
So I, I got a card, pass it around, everybody signed it.
31:35
And that ended up being like, that became my role.
31:37
You know, I ended up being the one to get the card signed for
31:40
people. So when my birthday came around
31:41
in March, you know, of course I'm not going to pass my own
31:44
birthday card around, right. So so they actually did it with
31:47
they, they snuck around my back and signed a card, but they also
31:50
planned a surprise party. OK.
31:53
And which was amazing. And it was the only one.
31:56
I was the only one who had a surprise party.
31:58
You know, we did things for other people's birthday.
31:59
But, and I remember talking to my therapist and I said, you
32:02
know, I said, do you know what a calendar is?
32:04
You know, because she was English and I didn't know if
32:06
there's a different word for a calendar.
32:07
And she's like, yeah, you put the pasta in and what water
32:10
comes out the holes? I said yes.
32:12
I said, you know, when, when they, when my classmates had
32:15
this party for me, I said like, I felt connected to them.
32:21
So there's that word again. Connected.
32:23
I felt connected. I felt like I belonged.
32:25
I felt like I was a part of the group.
32:27
But I can't say that I felt that the the whole year, you know,
32:30
And it was a great feeling. But I said I feel like a
32:33
colander because it just runs through the holes, like when
32:37
you're rinsing the pasta. I'm not able to contain that
32:40
sense of the feeling of the connectedness or the sense of
32:43
belonging. And it's frustrating.
32:45
It was frustrating for me because that moment, that
32:48
snapshot in time was super. It was profound.
32:52
It was kind of like, oh, I must have had this all wrong.
32:55
You know, maybe they do accept me, but but there was so much
32:58
struggle throughout the year of trying to fit in and trying to
33:01
connect and trying to be a part and sometimes not being included
33:04
or invited. It made me feel like, well, I
33:08
really am not a part. But then suddenly I was for that
33:11
day. I was celebrated.
33:12
And then I can't. Then I've got a bunch of holes
33:15
in my bowl and it all runs out. Right.
33:19
Am I describing somebody who lacks a sense of being?
33:22
Yes. OK, I thought so do.
33:26
You remember at the beginning I was talking about Genesis 11 and
33:29
two, and I said that God, you know, he didn't want us with
33:33
that bottomless emptiness or he didn't.
33:36
He wanted us to have a shape and a form and come out of chaos.
33:40
Now you haven't got bottomless emptiness.
33:43
Obviously God has done something.
33:45
You have a level of foundation in there, but your level of
33:49
foundation has still got holes in it.
33:52
Yes. So you're not bottomless
33:54
emptiness. That is some people there is God
33:58
has done something in you, but it's it's certainly not that
34:01
solid foundation that you need in order to be able to hold and
34:10
contain the good that comes to you.
34:12
Yes, I've I've had a sense of it just ran right through the.
34:15
Corner. Yes.
34:17
Well, interestingly, one other thing is I don't have it.
34:21
I don't really know anything about my prenatal experience,
34:24
but I do know that like 13 months I had pneumonia.
34:30
And. Went to the hospital and got out
34:35
of the hospital and my mother said that I obviously I wasn't
34:38
well enough because I got sick again.
34:40
And that time when I went to the hospital, maybe it was that
34:43
second time, I was 13 months. She said they told her to not
34:48
visit me. And she said, and, and she said
34:52
you were there so long that you had to relearn how to walk.
34:55
So I was in the hospital for like a month and my mother was
34:57
told not to visit me. And this is the reason they
35:00
said, because I don't think they knew anything about attachment
35:02
theory back then or just wasn't as, as, as, because this is a
35:06
60s, you know, I was 68. So I, I've thought about that
35:12
and I've wondered if, I mean, there could be other incidences,
35:14
but that one to me must have been a pretty traumatic because
35:17
for a month I'm in the hospital and I'm separated from my
35:20
mother, you know, and it's, I mean, I'm not trying to blame
35:23
her. That's, that was, that was the
35:25
advice of the medical professionals, you know.
35:28
And that is the cause of your damage, sense of pain.
35:32
Yes. Well, and then what one thing I
35:35
want to make sure we mention, and because the, the class that
35:38
I'm teaching has to do also with addictive behaviors and I was
35:42
curious about that. Well, the, the overall course is
35:45
about that. I'm talking about sexual abuse
35:47
and healing and that kind of thing.
35:50
But so that might have been the the initial cause.
35:53
But then as I get older, there was sexual abuse, you know?
35:57
Yeah. Race just finished you off in
36:00
English language well. And that was the other thing I
36:03
wanted to ask you because if you're talking about somebody
36:05
who prenatal, you know, that's something they have 0 control
36:09
over or even how they were treated as an infant.
36:11
So can we say that somebody who struggles with a solid sense of
36:15
being that they come to that it's a struggle that happens
36:18
through no fault of their own. Oh yeah, of course.
36:22
I mean most things that happen to us and don't forward to our
36:24
own, but it is our responsibility how we respond to
36:27
it all. This is the issue.
36:29
And so for instance, with no sense of being, some people live
36:33
in their heads, they fantasize, they introspect and all that.
36:36
Other people, as I alluded to earlier, what is what I call
36:40
self medicate. It is so horrible to have no
36:43
sense of being, to have that emptiness inside you, to have
36:47
annoying anxiety going on in the middle of your being on your
36:53
bodies, that people take drugs, they have lots of sex, they
36:58
overeat, they're addicted to pornography.
37:01
I would argue that isn't the only cause, but a sense of being
37:07
always when you're in the healing yourself or helping
37:12
others to be healed. A sense of being always, always,
37:16
always aware there's addiction needs to be addressed.
37:19
OK. Thank you.
37:20
That's what I was going to ask you about, the connection
37:22
between sense of being and addiction.
37:24
Yeah is self medication. OK, so.
37:28
We we find some way of making ourselves feel better.
37:32
Yes. OK.
37:33
So you so, so lack of sense of being would be causal to
37:38
addiction, correct. OK.
37:41
Can you talk about sexual abuse and sense of being?
37:44
Yes, well and what they said, anything like you going into
37:49
hospital, even if there's a a reasonable sense of being to
37:54
begin with, it can easily be damaged.
37:56
Haemorrhaged. It's a word I like to use a
38:01
really it's toe punches into it. I mean, prayer partner of mine,
38:06
she had a really great family, but her mum died when she was 12
38:10
and she everything hemorrhaged Alpha, you know, sort of.
38:14
And so I think sexual abuse could be like that.
38:16
It's so invades and damages our identity.
38:21
Yes, yes. OK, so the mention the person
38:24
you mentioned that you said was 12.
38:25
So you could have a really great start in life and some trauma
38:28
happened and then and then you still end up like me, a colander
38:32
with holes in it. Yes.
38:34
That can't contain the love that's coming to you.
38:36
Yes. And it's fearful very often or
38:39
anxious and all sorts of reasons, you know, sort of
38:42
because now we're safe anymore, is it?
38:47
Yeah, OK. I have to say that's kind of
38:50
discouraging, though, when you think about like, you could have
38:53
the best start in life and then, you know, lose a parent, isn't
38:56
it? Yes.
38:57
OK, Good. All right.
38:59
It's. I mean, OK, good.
39:01
But yes. Yeah.
39:02
Well, it's it's. I mean, God provides us with
39:06
hailing to grow old. Yeah, and it's also the result
39:09
of living in a fallen world, you know?
39:11
Yeah. All right.
39:13
So brings us to your prayer, which I want to go through it
39:18
and it's in, it's in your book. Would you Is that whole book
39:20
about sense of being? It's called Mother.
39:22
Mother matters. It's all about sense of being,
39:25
the whole book. OK, so anyway, you prayed the
39:28
prayer at the the first conference I went to.
39:30
I want to say it was either I don't know if it's 2018, but
39:34
you, you, you pray a prayer now I'm going to say like Leanne
39:38
would pray hers is not yours is like very.
39:42
I want to say prescriptive. Is that right?
39:44
OK, where's hers would be? I don't know how you want to
39:48
call it. Just whatever she prayed in that
39:50
moment. Like, correct, right?
39:54
Prescriptively, so that people can then pray for themselves.
39:57
Yes, and one thing I want to say about you compared to Leanne is
40:02
just that's been helpful for me is I find you more accessible,
40:08
like I can track, whereas sometimes with her and she would
40:11
say this, don't try to take notes.
40:12
I don't speak to the head, I speak to the heart.
40:14
She would say that in her conferences.
40:16
Now she for those who don't know that we're talking about
40:18
something who's passed away. So her, I don't know what year
40:21
she died, but she she had a ministry for many, many years
40:24
and I've been to her conferences.
40:26
And because I, I would, I would sometimes I track better with
40:29
the other speakers like you mentioned Clay McClain, Mario,
40:33
but with her, I just feel like I have no idea what she's talking
40:35
about. But hers was not a prescriptive
40:41
prayer. Now when I went to your
40:43
conference, you said pray this prayer everyday.
40:45
Yes. And I took that on.
40:48
I want to say that I took that on and and it's weird because I
40:56
can't. It's not like I can tell you a
40:58
day I woke up and I thought I feel more solid in my core, you
41:02
know? But, and in fact, there's a line
41:05
in your prayer, OK, that says I have to start from the top of
41:10
it. I can't just jump it in the
41:11
middle. OK, This is so embarrassing
41:15
right now, but anyway, OK, fill in the knowledge of my capacity
41:20
received from you set in place accord my being filled by
41:22
security. Give me a firm foundation.
41:23
This is it right here. You ready fill in the bottom of
41:26
my well of being. Yeah.
41:29
With your Rock of Truth, am I getting it right at Rock of
41:35
Truth and Security so that as I am filled with being, I no
41:38
longer leak? I remember reading that
41:40
thinking, Oh my gosh, that's the colander.
41:43
That's the holes being filled so that you don't leak out.
41:48
Yeah, yeah. So I would like you to take us
41:52
through each line of that prayer.
41:53
And I will tell you the first line is the one I struggle with
41:56
the most. The word cuddles.
42:00
Well, one, we don't really use it as much in America.
42:02
We say hugs, but why is that in the prayer?
42:05
OK, because I share other people and they're like, oh, I'm not
42:08
going to pray prayer about cuddles, you know.
42:10
So can you can you explain that? So I'm going to start with
42:15
telling you the panel, this was a revelatory prayer to me.
42:20
You're good. OK?
42:21
Because I had a dream. And in the dream, I had this
42:28
little tiny baby in my arms and a toddler of about two or three
42:33
years old, little blonde little girl.
42:36
And for some reason, in the dream, they were both taken away
42:40
from me. And then there was a knock on
42:43
the door. Sorry.
42:46
No problem. There was a knock on the door
42:51
and the New Girl comes in and she bounces past me and goes
42:55
into a room, plays with some toys and they give me back this
43:01
little baby who shrunken on the inside.
43:05
All his skin was loose and all the skin was flaky.
43:13
And in my dream as I'm holding him, God said to me, pray for
43:16
him to be filled up with love and cuddles.
43:19
They were the actual words. So in the dream I start to pray
43:23
for him to be filled up with love and cuddles and he grows
43:28
back into his skin so it's no longer loose and all the skin
43:32
had been flaky and it became all shiny and squidgy.
43:37
You know that baby's skins are. And I woke up, I was at a
43:43
conference and the next morning I came across this young man who
43:49
was in a terrible state. He'd been cruising homosexually.
43:53
He hadn't done anything, but he'd been in all the gay clubs
43:59
and was beside himself. He he's came from a well known
44:07
Christian family. He was a worship leader in a big
44:10
church and he he just, and this is very early days for me and
44:18
with someone else on, on my staff at All Saints, we prayed
44:22
all sorts of prayers for him and really nothing was happening.
44:27
But it was a very polite young man.
44:29
So he says something like, oh, I think I feel a bit better, which
44:32
actually means please go away now I've had enough.
44:37
And the dream came to my mind and I said to him, this is going
44:41
to sound really weird, but can I pray a really peculiar prayer
44:45
over you? And he said yes, thinking she
44:48
will then leave me, she'll go away if I say yes.
44:51
So I I prayed for him to be filled up with love and cuddles
44:57
and he literally rule on his inside and sort of straightened
45:03
up. And so I said, oh, I said, were
45:10
you separated from your mum at birth?
45:12
So he said no. So I said you've got a sister.
45:15
He said yes, she's three years old at the MENA.
45:18
So then he went, oh wait a minute.
45:20
He said when I was about a week old, my mum haemorrhaged and she
45:29
had to go back into hospital. My sister went to an aunt, but I
45:33
went to some other hospital for a while.
45:35
I think I was there for quite a while at some other hospital.
45:40
Oh, it's exactly the Jane. So I said to him, well, I think
45:44
you need to keep praying this love and cuddles prayer.
45:47
Now, let's try and make the connection.
45:50
Here he is. He's a young man, about 22.
45:55
He obviously wants to go close to a girl.
45:57
He wants to have a relationship with her.
46:01
But when he gets close to a girl, what's his deep heart lie?
46:07
Women can't be trusted. Because he was taking from his
46:11
mother, right? Yes, women can't be trusted,
46:14
they put you in hospital or put you in children's homes.
46:18
That is the deep heart lie. So as much as he wants to make
46:23
connection all with that fear of woman comes up.
46:29
It's very subconscious, right? Like he's not even aware.
46:32
And he didn't have a clue about it.
46:34
Right. And of course, I'm sure there
46:37
was an emotionally absent dad there as well because his dad
46:39
was a vicar. So I'm not knocking on vicar's,
46:42
but, you know, I mean, it's sort of.
46:45
Yeah. But that's the so that I came
46:49
home from this conference and I thought I need this prayer
46:54
because I dropped my waist in my diaphragm, had a continual
46:59
feeling of anxiety. Wasn't terrible.
47:02
I lived with it. So every night this prayer I'm
47:07
going to go through, I prayed for myself.
47:13
I didn't understand it. All I knew was the dream.
47:17
I literally took it like medicine.
47:20
I didn't feel anything. About six months later, I had a
47:26
sort of solid feeling inside me. See, that's what I was trying to
47:31
describe too. And I can't tell you when it
47:32
happened, but I just think over time.
47:34
I still do it, you know, I feel like I, I, I mean, do you, do
47:39
you still pray? I I still pray.
47:40
For me, I don't I am really OK. I feel out to my late husband
47:46
died. I might get knocked and be what
47:49
I call decentered, but I didn't. It was fine.
47:52
No, so you don't really need to pray it forever.
47:55
No, I I didn't. In the end, it's slowly dwindled
47:59
out. OK, well, maybe I got what I
48:01
needed from it and so I can move on to another prayer.
48:04
OK, good. But I feel like it really helped
48:06
me. So I that's why I'm super
48:08
excited that you're going to unpack the prayer.
48:09
Sure, sure. So when I normally if I'm at a
48:13
conference, I tell people to do is to place their hands where
48:16
they feel the emptiness. Now that's there for you.
48:20
Some people, it's in their heads.
48:22
Oh really? So they would go like.
48:24
This well because the neural pathways is 1 unwanted I'm loved
48:27
and accepted haven't connected and they have a I've got
48:32
something missing feeling. Some people feel in the heads.
48:37
A lot of people feel it here Oats feeling stroats here.
48:45
Of course you can feel it in the genitalia because the deeper the
48:49
anxiety is of a separation is and a lot of there's a lot of
48:55
confusion often with people who have excessive masturbation
48:58
issues that it's always assumed it's because of sexual abuse.
49:02
It isn't necessarily can be trying to relieve the anxiety
49:07
that's hurt in the genitalia. OK, OK.
49:11
So it can even help with that, Yeah.
49:13
Oh, definitely. And again, some people can feel
49:17
it in their knees. Oh wow, OK so it could be
49:21
anywhere it. Could be anywhere.
49:24
What if you don't know where you feel it?
49:25
You know then. You put your hand on your heart.
49:27
OK, fine. OK, OK.
49:30
So that's what you do. First of all, you find your
49:31
emptiness place, you put your hand there and this and not
49:37
from, I might say, when you don't know where the you're
49:42
feeling, it's often because you're feeling so completely
49:44
shut down or frozen as a complete detachment.
49:50
All right, so you start and put the hand there and you ask God
49:55
to fill you up with love and cuddles.
49:57
Now, wine, wine, cuddles. One of the simple answer is
50:01
that's what God told me to do in the prayer.
50:04
But secondly, you see, do you remember where I started about
50:08
talking about the baby with the need for touch?
50:12
Yeah, at the boundary that they're connected but have their
50:17
own identity. Cuddles, we can suffer from
50:22
literal touch deprivation and a babe, a babies where they've
50:27
been separated in an incubator or things like that can actually
50:32
have a lot of touch deprivation. Now, because we're not into
50:36
repairing. None of this is about repairing,
50:39
but it is about God doing something on the inside because
50:44
we do have the Christianity is an inside out religion, isn't
50:47
it? It's all about our inside that
50:49
will then come out and help people well heal people of any
50:55
touch deprivation. OK.
50:58
OK, because some touch deprivation is again why reason
51:03
people end up in lots of relationships just because they
51:08
need touch? Like promiscuity, they could.
51:12
Yeah. OK, OK.
51:15
So that's why we have cuddles now then?
51:19
That's the. First time so love and cuddles
51:21
then you see large mud capacity to receive from you because when
51:26
we've had emotional deprivation as well as a lack of sense of
51:33
being, we manage on very, very little.
51:41
You know we crumps. Crumps.
51:44
Yeah, we're like anorexics, you know, we can manage on a tiny,
51:47
tiny emotional stomach. Spiritual.
51:51
Stomach. Yes.
51:52
Emotional. Anorexic.
51:54
OK. Yeah.
51:55
And so that is a expand my capacity to receive from you.
52:02
Receive from God, yes. Yes, because.
52:04
Yes, because we can manage on just so little that we aren't
52:10
hungry, we're not thirsty for more of him.
52:13
We've got this rationing attitude.
52:17
That's a beast. Out there.
52:20
Yes, OK. Wow, OK.
52:23
You know where you get your babies?
52:24
Very deprived children that are just so little.
52:29
Emotionally deprived, so little. Yes, yes.
52:33
And so we have to ask God to expand our capacity to receive
52:37
from Him. OK, so then we pray for this to
52:47
be all set in place in the call of our being.
52:53
Then to go back to Agnes Sanford, I first mentioned how
52:56
prayer for everyone was for God to meet them at their deepest
53:00
point of need. Such a simple prayer when you
53:04
don't know what to pray for someone.
53:08
OK, set in place the core of my being in, in exercise terms, we
53:12
talk a lot about our core, which is like the the inner like yeah,
53:17
it's like this. Oh, you need a strong core.
53:20
So, so we have an emotional core as well then.
53:23
Yes, definitely. OK, set in place the core of my
53:26
being. Yeah, yeah.
53:28
And if you do sort of exercises that often talk about getting
53:33
your core strength from don't yes.
53:37
So yes. And then is to fill me with
53:39
security because it's I've said where there's no where there's
53:43
always trauma either from separation or death or not
53:47
working well at the beginning. We don't feel safe.
53:53
So we need security to be poured into us.
53:58
OK. And to have a firm foundation.
54:02
The movie security give me a firm foundation, yeah.
54:08
And then it's the to fill the bottom of the well of my being
54:12
because this is how I always see it.
54:14
I see it because of the bottom reception is I see it as a well.
54:18
It's just how I see it well of my being with truth because this
54:24
is very the rock of truth is very important.
54:28
And again, security. With your rock of truth and
54:33
security so that. So that I'm filled with being
54:37
and I no longer leak. We've got our well without holes
54:41
in it. Yes, so that as I am filled with
54:43
being I no longer leak. I can contain it, yes.
54:48
And then pour in your nurturing presence and peace, because a
54:52
lot of this stuff with the mum, the mum's not at peace.
54:57
So we can't feel like the baby with the quiet and heart of the
55:01
breast. Psalm 131 because just make the
55:06
anxious free presence of God. And then it's the rest in me as
55:15
I rest in you. God rest in me as I rest in you.
55:21
And then I quote again the Psalm, You know, like a baby
55:24
content in the mother's arms. My soul is a baby content and
55:30
then I'd say mate be so for me. Amen and Amen.
55:33
Yeah, like may I be that baby content?
55:36
OK, may I be that baby content? Yes, and pray that every day.
55:43
Yes. And then when do you know when
55:45
you have it? Tell me that.
55:49
I felt it. I didn't feel it like I'm
55:54
pouring and cementing to me, but I just felt a solid place in
56:03
myself. And I wrote in my journal, which
56:08
is very colloquial. So I realized for feeling that
56:12
English isn't their first language, but I wrote in my
56:15
journal. I've got a sense of deep
56:17
okayness. OK.
56:20
Like it is it also called a sense of well-being?
56:24
Is that the same thing? Yeah.
56:25
Yeah. Yeah, Diane Langberg, she she's,
56:30
she has written on sexual abuse and she talks about something
56:34
called, I think it's sense of personhood.
56:36
Is it the same type of thing? Yes, yes.
56:38
So just what I call it identity and connectedness, but we're
56:42
all, we're all sort of saying the same things in our language.
56:46
All right. I just want to make sure.
56:47
OK, Yeah. So pray it every day.
56:50
I'm trying to anticipate what questions anybody would have
56:53
because while I have you, well, I don't know, you put your hand
56:59
on your heart. You pray this every day and.
57:01
Let me just say a little bit about wonky relationships then,
57:04
because that might come up, because wonky relationships have
57:08
a lot to do with this. As I've said, this young man had
57:12
a fear of women. Some women who get caught in
57:19
same sex addiction is because they're looking for mummy and
57:25
then they they they are feels they're desperate to make
57:28
connection with woman and that becomes eroticized.
57:32
Basically the real need is for a mummy to come and meet the
57:36
emptiness and the lack of being that was experienced in the
57:40
early years. So that's often mixed up in
57:44
there and a lot of guys misogyny or the, you know, the come here,
57:50
go away is because a very distorted image of woman in
57:53
their heart. They breakdown misogyny for me.
57:56
I know what it means, but to explain.
57:58
OK, I call it I am ambivalence towards woman.
58:02
The definition in the dictionary is some hatred of women.
58:08
I think that that is so unhelpful because we've been go
58:12
to me. I don't hate women, right?
58:15
But it's an ambivalence. OK.
58:18
You said come here, I need you. I'm now angry with you that I
58:22
need you, so I'm going to send you away.
58:24
OK, Well in both examples you gave the one that you prayed for
58:29
at the conference and then you just talked about women real
58:31
quick were people who deal with same sex attractions.
58:34
But I don't think you're saying that this is necessarily
58:36
something that people that that's the only population that
58:40
might need sense of being. None at all.
58:42
I mean, you'll get, for instance, a married man,
58:48
heterosexually married man who has no sense of being, who is
58:53
very anxious whenever his wife goes out and is then and becomes
58:57
very controlling. OK.
59:02
She has become his sense of being.
59:05
So I need her. This deep level, his mummy.
59:09
So I need to know where she is. I need her.
59:11
Back. I need to know where she is.
59:12
I want her back, yes. I don't feel safe without her.
59:16
OK, what about heterosexual women?
59:17
What could how could that look before for heterosexual women?
59:20
Heterosexual. Women often favour men over
59:26
women in a way of being. Well, for instance, my mother
59:33
didn't have a sense of being. I would be talking about
59:36
something that I knew something about and she would ask my
59:40
husband, she'd say, well, what do you think?
59:42
Because obviously his view was more important than mine because
59:48
because her mum, she dismissed her mother because her mother in
59:51
her. So she had failed her when she
59:55
was daddy's girl. So and I would call that
59:58
misogyny where where you where you value the male you know or
1:00:02
opinion over a feminine building.
1:00:04
So I'm kind of in both men and women.
1:00:07
Yes, right because women can do that to women think that time.
1:00:11
Oh yeah, I I grew up thinking women were weak because my mom
1:00:14
was the victim of domestic violence.
1:00:15
So. So.
1:00:18
But what about so? Is misogyny always going to lead
1:00:22
to a sense of being? AI will be a component of it,
1:00:26
yes. So it might be your dad, who was
1:00:29
sexually violent, didn't have a sense of being himself.
1:00:32
OK. OK.
1:00:34
So because we've already talked about addiction, can, would be,
1:00:39
would manifest when you don't have a sense of being.
1:00:41
Misogyny would be another indicator.
1:00:47
Indicator and it would be one of the components without doubt.
1:00:51
OK. All right.
1:00:52
OK. And I'm going to assume we can
1:00:56
throw shame in there. Oh yeah, well, shame of course
1:00:59
covers the whole thing up and it took me years to recognise how
1:01:04
much of A bully Shame is and I'd really, which has happened to
1:01:10
when nearly most of the books I've written.
1:01:12
I struggled through it, Work it out for about a year, write down
1:01:15
what I think and then discover someone brilliant on the
1:01:18
subject, which I was wish I'd read with light stuff, of
1:01:23
course, my name Brown being someone who's amazing on it all.
1:01:27
But Shame covers a lot of this because Shame is part of the
1:01:30
live we believe. So when we're born and we're not
1:01:36
connected and we're not loved and we believe there is
1:01:39
something wrong with us because otherwise mummy would love us or
1:01:43
daddy would love us something wrong with us, then we feel the
1:01:46
shame. Now shame is put on us by other
1:01:51
people. However, it's our responsibility
1:01:55
not to believe the lies of shame.
1:02:01
Yes, if we. Really take that shame into
1:02:05
ourselves. We then end up with self hatred.
1:02:07
So it's our responsibility to believe the truth of God rather
1:02:12
than the lies of the enemy that comes through shame.
1:02:16
Which is why in that prayer we pray for that truth to sit in
1:02:20
that foundation. It's so important.
1:02:26
I agree with all that what I I feel like what also and and you
1:02:30
didn't say this so I don't want to so I have to believe God's
1:02:35
truth over the lie, right? What?
1:02:37
If. If that's not being reinforced
1:02:40
in my relationships, it's hard for me to believe God's truth.
1:02:43
If does that make sense? Yeah, it is hard.
1:02:47
And I mean, and there's a lot of people shame us and we can have
1:02:52
a vulnerability to rejection or a vulnerability towards shame.
1:02:56
I mean, what therapy has helped for doing is helping us to
1:02:59
identify where our vulnerabilities are.
1:03:04
OK. And I will say the enemy is very
1:03:06
good at knowing our vulnerabilities.
1:03:09
Well, so so let's say I need AI, need a solid sense of being.
1:03:14
I'm going to pray this prayer every day.
1:03:15
We were just talking about therapy a second ago.
1:03:17
So like, because I feel like I've done a lot of work in
1:03:21
therapy and to me that's a good adjunct to something like this,
1:03:25
you know, where as some people and, and in my work and, and,
1:03:29
and being involved with Exodus International, which we're not
1:03:33
going to go into that, but it, but it, but in that was my
1:03:35
previous work. I saw people where they would,
1:03:39
they like the people who loved Liam Payne, they would just find
1:03:42
all their healing there and then the other people would have
1:03:45
their own thing. But I always like, let's just
1:03:47
learn from all of it. You know why?
1:03:48
Absolutely. I think we, I think we learn
1:03:51
from all of it. I think those of us who are
1:03:54
teachers then have to find our stream.
1:03:58
So I often say if I'm teaching leaders or things like that, I
1:04:01
would say, look, this is my colour of the rainbow.
1:04:05
There's always other colours and they're all equal to my colour
1:04:11
or they're, I talk about we're all little tribulates.
1:04:14
That's going into a great big river.
1:04:16
My tribulates here. This is how I teach it.
1:04:20
But for you to I want you to experience all the colours of
1:04:24
the rainbow or the fullness of the river.
1:04:27
But this is my area or my use of my language for it.
1:04:31
OK, excellent. Good.
1:04:33
Because yeah, I, I think we, we receive differently sometimes
1:04:37
from different teachers. Absolutely.
1:04:39
And the more secure you are, the more you don't worry about how
1:04:42
people receive it. As long as they do.
1:04:45
OK, good. So yeah, I I just want to also
1:04:48
give a plug for therapy just because.
1:04:50
Yeah, yeah. I think it's important to do the
1:04:52
work. You know, it is.
1:04:54
It is. Yes.
1:04:55
OK. How should we conclude?
1:04:58
I'm, you know, you took us through the prayer, but I I want
1:05:02
to make sure that, you know, it's maybe awkward because
1:05:06
you're not with the audience that.
1:05:09
But is it OK? Like, can I ask you to pray the
1:05:12
prayer? And then I I don't know.
1:05:14
And then. Oh yeah, OK.
1:05:17
I'll, I'll pray something anyway.
1:05:18
Let me just pray something rather than the prayer because
1:05:21
we've been through that. OK, Just pray.
1:05:23
I'll pray something. I'll pray.
1:05:25
Yeah. OK.
1:05:31
Father God, I pray now that you will come into the room and you
1:05:35
will hover over every one of the students with your powerful
1:05:42
healing presence. And I pray for each student as
1:05:50
they reach out towards you, you'll descend into them and
1:06:03
they will start to experience a sense of belonging, both with
1:06:12
each other on the course, but also I belonging to you and the
1:06:17
Trinity. Father, we want to thank you
1:06:22
that you are a relational God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1:06:30
And the love between you all three is a generous love that
1:06:36
reaches down to include us into your family.
1:06:42
And so I pray now that you'll reach down into the deepest
1:06:45
parts of each person's emptiness, loneliness, neglect,
1:06:57
with your powerful healing presence.
1:07:03
Thank you, Father. Amen.
1:07:08
Amen. That's gorgeous.
1:07:15
Yeah, that is. So I'm so excited that we got to
1:07:19
do this. It's so good, isn't it?
1:07:21
Yes, yes, really. I can't, I, I can't thank you
1:07:25
enough. Like I'm just, I, I've been a
1:07:28
fan and I can't even believe I got to sit and and and unpack
1:07:32
this and let you. Know and I'm excited about where
1:07:35
it's going to go and what's going to happen with it.
1:07:37
So it's really good. Thank you.
1:07:39
I appreciate it. Thank you.
1:07:41
Take care.