Latest / NO FILTER / Woman accused of murdering fifth husband after fatally shooting fiancé(MP3_160K)

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Woman accused of murdering fifth husband after fatally shooting fiancé(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

0:00
Speaker 1: A word of warning. This podcast explores graphic and disturbing
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Speaker 1: stories and includes some strong language. It therefore may not
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Speaker 1: be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who
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Speaker 1: may find it disturbing. Hello and welcome to True Crime News,
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Speaker 1: the podcast covering high profile and under the radar cases
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Speaker 1: from across the country every week. I'm your host, Anna Garcia.
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Speaker 1: Our case this week, she's accused of killing husband number
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Speaker 1: five and one of her fiancees, who I guess would
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Speaker 1: have made it six husbands never made it to the
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Speaker 1: altar because she killed him in self defense according to police.
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Speaker 1: But now in light of the current murder charges, prosecutors
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Speaker 1: in the self defense case are taking another look. Who
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Speaker 1: is this woman? Does she just have bad luck with men?
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Speaker 1: Or is she the problem? We are recording this on Friday,
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Speaker 1: October third of twenty twenty five. Our guest today is Gizlicky,
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Speaker 1: creator and host of the YouTube channel Grizzy Lead True Crime.
1:01
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Isla. How are you?
1:05
Speaker 2: Thank you? And it's so great to be back. I'm
1:06
Speaker 2: doing well. I hope you as well.
1:09
Speaker 1: This is very international today. You're joining us from Switzerland.
1:12
Speaker 1: We love that.
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Speaker 2: I am indeed, I'm happy to be here.
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Speaker 1: Great. Well, this case, as I would say, everything about
1:20
Speaker 1: this case is big, Texas big. A woman in Chambers
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Speaker 1: County stands accused of killing her husband. Now this is
1:29
Speaker 1: husband number five, and now the death of a previous
1:34
Speaker 1: fiance is getting a second look from authorities. The accused
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Speaker 1: here is Sarah Hartsfield. She is fifty years old. She
1:43
Speaker 1: is currently on trial for one kind of murder in
1:45
Speaker 1: the death of her fifth husband, Joseph Hartsfeld, who is
1:49
Speaker 1: forty six. Sarah is pleaded not guilty and has been
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Speaker 1: in jail for two years waiting for trial. Trial has
1:56
Speaker 1: finally begun. We're in the first week of the trial
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Speaker 1: and it's expect to go for about three weeks. Now
2:02
Speaker 1: in a Texas courtroom, what is your initial reaction to
2:08
Speaker 1: this case?
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Speaker 2: Is she a serial wife or a serial killer? The
2:14
Speaker 2: more I look at this case, I'm like, and then what,
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Speaker 2: there's a lot of red flag So there's nothing proven
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Speaker 2: beyond the fiance being shot she said in self defense
2:22
Speaker 2: and now being on trial for the murder of husband
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Speaker 2: number five. But my goodness, there's a lot of chaos
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Speaker 2: surrounding her. It's like a very dark energy and just
2:33
Speaker 2: trying to track everything that people say she did. It's
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Speaker 2: very interesting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, there's a lot going on there. But for me,
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Speaker 1: the biggest problem I think for the prosecution is that
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Speaker 1: her husband's manner of death has been ruled undetermined. So
2:54
Speaker 1: how do you prove homicide if homicide is not manner
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Speaker 1: of death?
3:02
Speaker 3: That is?
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Speaker 2: It's kind of bothersome when it's undetermined, especially because they
3:06
Speaker 2: said that he had an insulent overdose and there's evidence
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Speaker 2: that there were ten insulin pens or syringers right there
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Speaker 2: by his bedside, So why is it undetermined? It's kind
3:18
Speaker 2: of frustrating, but at the same time, so how do
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Speaker 2: they prove it? Then they would have to prove that
3:23
Speaker 2: she delivered that, and they would have to prove that
3:26
Speaker 2: she neglected all the notifications that were going off to
3:28
Speaker 2: give him his insulin. So it could get very challenging.
3:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's quite easy to say, oh
3:35
Speaker 1: my gosh, she's on husband number five. Once she killed
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Speaker 1: in self defense, Now she's accused of killing this one. Oh,
3:41
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of smoke there. Yes, absolutely
3:44
Speaker 1: a lot going on in this circus, and the question
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Speaker 1: will be what will the jury decide about the evidence,
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Speaker 1: and so far the testimony honestly has been mixed. So
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Speaker 1: let's get into the details of this case. She stands
4:00
Speaker 1: accused of killing her husband, Joseph in twenty twenty three
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Speaker 1: with too much insulin. Now, he was a diabetic Okay,
4:09
Speaker 1: so as we said, the manner of death remains undetermined. Okay,
4:13
Speaker 1: that's a weak spot for the prosecution. Her defense is
4:17
Speaker 1: quite interesting. Her defense is, look, he didn't manage his diabetes. Well,
4:22
Speaker 1: he is in charge of managing himself, and if he
4:25
Speaker 1: didn't do a good job, that's his fault, not her fault.
4:31
Speaker 1: Complicating all of this is he wore a monitoring device
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Speaker 1: that would send an alert when levels started to become dangerous,
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Speaker 1: an audible alert, And so the testimony this week was
4:47
Speaker 1: that the monitor was already indicating that there was a
4:52
Speaker 1: problem for hours. So presumably was beeping for hours. Okay,
4:58
Speaker 1: what happened there? Why didn't he respond to his medication
5:02
Speaker 1: unless he was not conscious.
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Speaker 2: Exactly? I think the defense has something to work with
5:10
Speaker 2: there because the question that comes up is did she
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Speaker 2: usually help him administer the insulin or did he always
5:16
Speaker 2: do himself? And now this time you know what I mean,
5:19
Speaker 2: that's going to be interesting to prove now if he
5:22
Speaker 2: was unconscious and she said she was actually sick herself,
5:25
Speaker 2: taking some medication and she wasn't able to attend to him.
5:30
Speaker 2: So I do think it's going to be interesting what
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Speaker 2: the jury decides. As much as know, her history is
5:35
Speaker 2: quite questionable.
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Speaker 1: Exactly she was recovering from some form of surgery and
5:42
Speaker 1: so was woozy and was aware of something, but you know,
5:48
Speaker 1: she thought he was on top of it, and she
5:49
Speaker 1: went back to rest. Now, prosecutors say she waited one
5:54
Speaker 1: hour before calling for an ambulance, and that isn't india
6:00
Speaker 1: to them that this was part of the murder plan.
6:05
Speaker 1: I think waiting an hour to call an ambulance is
6:08
Speaker 1: a long time. The question is what condition was she in.
6:11
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's certainly suspicious it is.
6:16
Speaker 2: And the other thing that defense could argue is, well
6:18
Speaker 2: she did call nine on one. Well, she did call
6:20
Speaker 2: an ambulance, so she did the right thing like when
6:23
Speaker 2: she could. She did make that call instead of, oh, sorry,
6:27
Speaker 2: he passed away at home. I think that's in her favor,
6:30
Speaker 2: and I think in many ways, in many of the
6:33
Speaker 2: things surrounding her life, she walks that fine line it's
6:35
Speaker 2: very calculated if anything. Of course, she's innocential priven guilty
6:40
Speaker 2: in a court.
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Speaker 1: Of law exactly. Well, Joe died a few days later
6:44
Speaker 1: in the hospital. Now Joe's mother and sister have already
6:48
Speaker 1: testified that Sarah would not let them see Joe in
6:53
Speaker 1: the hospital. Then they also testified she wouldn't let them
6:58
Speaker 1: come to the funeral. So then the mother and the
7:02
Speaker 1: sister had their own memorial service and they wouldn't let
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Speaker 1: Sarah come to that. So clearly there's a lot going
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Speaker 1: on in this.
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Speaker 2: Family, very messy, and I believe that Sarah had someone film,
7:15
Speaker 2: you know, the last moments with her husband number five,
7:19
Speaker 2: you know, putting on a bit of a show. And
7:21
Speaker 2: people found that quite jarring, like why is she having
7:23
Speaker 2: this filmed? And she's like weeping over him, and she
7:26
Speaker 2: needed to show, you know, how very sad she was.
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Speaker 1: It's all very strange. And then the bodycam video when
7:33
Speaker 1: the authorities are talking to her at the hospital because
7:36
Speaker 1: the hospital alerted the police when Joseph came in, because
7:40
Speaker 1: just a lot of things were not making sense. They
7:43
Speaker 1: were very suspicious. So the body cam is showing this
7:47
Speaker 1: conversation and she keeps saying, but why are you asking me?
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Speaker 2: Like?
7:50
Speaker 1: Why are you asking me these questions? Meaning it's just
7:54
Speaker 1: one would But here's the flip side to that. If
7:57
Speaker 1: I'm in the hospital with my husband or significant and
8:00
Speaker 1: all of a sudden the police are questioning me about
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Speaker 1: what's happening with him, I'd be like, why are you
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Speaker 1: talking to me? What does this have to do with anything?
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Speaker 1: Especially if I didn't do anything?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that is what one would expect. So she's
8:15
Speaker 2: not quite doing that, So that is not counting in
8:18
Speaker 2: her favor for the jury.
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Speaker 1: The mother and the sister also told the jury this
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Speaker 1: week that Joseph had confided in them that he feared
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Speaker 1: for his life and that he was afraid that his
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Speaker 1: wife was going to kill him while he was in
8:36
Speaker 1: his sleep, and in fact had already started making moves
8:41
Speaker 1: toward a divorce and moving out, and he'd gone to
8:44
Speaker 1: the bank with his sister to set up an account,
8:46
Speaker 1: and so the preparations were underway for him to leave
8:51
Speaker 1: because he wasn't happy. Now here's her version of events. Well,
8:56
Speaker 1: she wasn't happy with him. She had complained that he
8:58
Speaker 1: wasn't making enough money. They hadn't even been married a year.
9:01
Speaker 1: They was just like short of a year by I
9:03
Speaker 1: mean by a month or so. So clearly this was
9:07
Speaker 1: nobody was happy in this marriage. Nobody was happy. I
9:10
Speaker 1: just so far, I haven't seen what the benefit to
9:15
Speaker 1: her is with Joseph dead, Like, no one has mentioned
9:19
Speaker 1: any financial gain yet, although there's the house. Apparently she
9:23
Speaker 1: was going to sell the house, so presumably that's it. Look,
9:30
Speaker 1: you've been married five times, you're used to divorce. I
9:34
Speaker 1: can't imagine that she couldn't live with the stigma of
9:37
Speaker 1: yet another divorce. That couldn't positively be it.
9:41
Speaker 2: No, she probably had husband number six lined up already
9:43
Speaker 2: that seemed to be a pet and as well one
9:46
Speaker 2: well this would be a shame one did, but the others, oh,
9:49
Speaker 2: divorced and the next one is already lined up. So yeah,
9:52
Speaker 2: there's no life insurance or anything. Maybe she was just
9:54
Speaker 2: looking at the property. Maybe she's just sadistic, or maybe
9:58
Speaker 2: she's completely innocent.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, complicated woman. I mean, think about her five husbands
10:02
Speaker 1: and she's just fifty years old. I mean, that's it's
10:06
Speaker 1: a lot going on there. It's a lot going on. Okay.
10:09
Speaker 1: Now here's the other thing that I think is a
10:11
Speaker 1: weakness for the prosecution and really supports the defense. Joseph's
10:16
Speaker 1: doctor testified that she found it baffling that he didn't
10:20
Speaker 1: immediately react to his monitor alerts, meaning he did not
10:25
Speaker 1: have to die. This was completely manageable and preventable. But
10:31
Speaker 1: here's what she said. Also, she said that he was
10:35
Speaker 1: not following her medical instructions and that he wasn't these
10:41
Speaker 1: are her words, wasn't taking his insulin consistently. Well, that
10:46
Speaker 1: completely supports what the wife and the defense is saying.
10:49
Speaker 1: He didn't manage his insulin.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that would definitely if I was on the jury,
10:56
Speaker 2: I would question that because if he wasn't man it
11:01
Speaker 2: consistently or taking his insulent consistently. And now suddenly there's
11:05
Speaker 2: a lot I mean, I constanted when a trials this
11:09
Speaker 2: victim blaming that goes on, but in this case there's
11:11
Speaker 2: room for that. Unfortunately, you know, because they've got they've
11:15
Speaker 2: got to defend Sarah Hartsfield as much as possible, and
11:18
Speaker 2: who knows if that could be the case.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so the prosecution is said that Sarah hated hated
11:24
Speaker 1: Joe and as we've said, both wanted out of the marriage. Okay,
11:31
Speaker 1: that generally when someone dies suspiciously comes into play, meaning, oh,
11:37
Speaker 1: they were about to divorce, What could that be a
11:40
Speaker 1: motivation here? Now police call Joe's death he died in
11:44
Speaker 1: January of twenty twenty three, as foul play. They said
11:48
Speaker 1: that initially because they were alerted to these inconsistencies at
11:53
Speaker 1: the hospital. Sarah then is indicted February third of twenty
11:57
Speaker 1: twenty three. Now, this is interesting. According to one of
12:01
Speaker 1: the police reports, she allegedly told the jailer they couldn't
12:05
Speaker 1: possibly have enough evidence against me. That to me is
12:10
Speaker 1: an interesting comment because I just would have said, but
12:14
Speaker 1: I didn't do this. I wouldn't say, oh, there's not
12:17
Speaker 1: enough evidence against me.
12:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an incriminating statement. I wonder will the jury
12:23
Speaker 2: get to hear about that at all or not? I
12:25
Speaker 2: would think not, But if so, it's.
12:29
Speaker 1: If it's been made public. I feel like the judge
12:33
Speaker 1: in this case has been legient in permitting her past
12:38
Speaker 1: histories because this whole issue with the self defense and
12:44
Speaker 1: the death of her fiance that's already been admitted. And
12:49
Speaker 1: there's another component. There's another crazy thing in this case apparently,
12:54
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get into the details of it.
12:57
Speaker 2: She was.
13:01
Speaker 1: Trying to arrange for the new wife of a previous
13:05
Speaker 1: husband to be killed. She and no one else was
13:09
Speaker 1: ever charged in that case, so that's complicating everything. But
13:16
Speaker 1: the judges already ruled that both of these things will
13:19
Speaker 1: be introduced, so the juries will know about it. A
13:21
Speaker 1: lot of times your previous history is excluded from the
13:27
Speaker 1: current case because everyone feels like that really taints the jury.
13:31
Speaker 1: It makes you look guilty. So I find that fascinating really,
13:36
Speaker 1: And two of her former husbands will be testifying they've
13:40
Speaker 1: been subpoened.
13:43
Speaker 2: Man, I wish there were cameras in the court room.
13:44
Speaker 2: We want to see that because they've already had a
13:47
Speaker 2: lot to say on documentaries about her. I mean most
13:50
Speaker 2: of all of a husbands say, except obviously the one
13:52
Speaker 2: they can't speak now. Actually too right. It's a fiance
13:56
Speaker 2: and a husband who had died. One was shot, she
13:59
Speaker 2: said in self, and then Joseph Hartsfield died from this
14:02
Speaker 2: undetermined but maybe insolent overdose. But they all said that
14:05
Speaker 2: they feared for their life. I mean husband number one,
14:09
Speaker 2: Titus said that he's glad he got out of that
14:12
Speaker 2: divorce alive. And everybody, he said, used to joke like
14:16
Speaker 2: why would you say that? Now they're like, oh, oh,
14:19
Speaker 2: I see, So I'm glad that they're bringing in some
14:22
Speaker 2: of that. It is fascinating because it doesn't happen often.
14:25
Speaker 1: I think, yes, she doesn't not some of that in
14:28
Speaker 1: She met Titus, husband number one, in nineteen ninety one
14:32
Speaker 1: in high school. Pair married two years later, you know,
14:36
Speaker 1: lasted about five years. They divorced in nineteen ninety six,
14:40
Speaker 1: and as you said, Titus was always shocked that he
14:43
Speaker 1: survived getting out of that marriage alive. And his wife
14:46
Speaker 1: said his new wife, Angela said, well, they could never
14:50
Speaker 1: get rid of Sarah. She just would not leave their lives,
14:55
Speaker 1: which is kind of weird. Like, why is she hanging around?
14:57
Speaker 1: Go bother someone else. You guys are divorce, go away now.
15:01
Speaker 1: If I were the new wife, I'd be get the
15:02
Speaker 1: heck out of here. If they didn't have kids, So
15:04
Speaker 1: what do you care? You know what I mean?
15:06
Speaker 2: Right? And if she's moving on, she's having affairs, why
15:09
Speaker 2: is she? Why is she doing that?
15:12
Speaker 1: There's a lot about Sarah we don't understand. It's a
15:15
Speaker 1: complicated woman. Sarah. Her second marriage to Michael was even
15:20
Speaker 1: more brief, and the two have never spoken in years.
15:22
Speaker 1: That's what we're told. Now. By the time Sarah marries
15:26
Speaker 1: for the third time, things change a little bit for her.
15:29
Speaker 1: It seems almost like she settled down a bit. So
15:32
Speaker 1: she met third husband, Christopher Donahue and Alaska. They married
15:36
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine. Sarah and Christopher shared four children together,
15:40
Speaker 1: living mostly at Fort Hood, Texas, where they were both
15:44
Speaker 1: stationed in the army. She's an army vet. So in
15:48
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Christopher filed for divorce from Sarah, and that
15:53
Speaker 1: same year Sarah found love again. This woman is either
15:58
Speaker 1: very lucky or unlucky or both at the same time,
16:02
Speaker 1: and so she falls in love with a man named
16:06
Speaker 1: David Bragg. They met at Fort Hood. They were planning
16:10
Speaker 1: to get married and moved to Minnesota, you know. And
16:13
Speaker 1: they eventually did move to Minnesota. Well, it was a
16:15
Speaker 1: very short engagement because this poor man, David, did not
16:19
Speaker 1: survive after a contentious argument in twenty eighteen, and apparently
16:25
Speaker 1: they were arguing about Sarah's third husband coming to visit
16:28
Speaker 1: with their children, and she claims that David became violent
16:32
Speaker 1: and that she got the beating of her life from him.
16:35
Speaker 1: She claims that he fired at her and she fired
16:38
Speaker 1: back in self defense. He died. The case was preliminarily
16:44
Speaker 1: investigated in the sense that the prosecutor said that her
16:48
Speaker 1: version of events lined up with the scene, and therefore
16:55
Speaker 1: they determined that it was justifiable that it was self defense.
17:00
Speaker 1: So David died on May ninth of twenty eighteen. Okay,
17:05
Speaker 1: so you put that kind of behind her, if you will,
17:08
Speaker 1: meaning it appears to be investigated, determined, they're not going
17:12
Speaker 1: to prosecute. Well, all that has now changed. All that's
17:16
Speaker 1: changing in light of the murder charges. So now that
17:19
Speaker 1: case is getting a second look. The thing is all
17:25
Speaker 1: the evidence in that I think is pretty much gone.
17:28
Speaker 1: I don't know what new evidence there is going to be.
17:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Are they looking at it just so they
17:35
Speaker 2: can bring it into this trial a little bit or
17:37
Speaker 2: can they actually prove that. That's going to be very difficult.
17:40
Speaker 2: As you say, now, the only thing that I think
17:43
Speaker 2: there is interesting is that she shot him in the heart.
17:47
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, I just reacted with damn. It's some
17:49
Speaker 2: good aim. I know she was in the army, but wow, Okay.
17:52
Speaker 1: This reminds me of the Lori Valo case, which I
17:55
Speaker 1: hate to talk about because it's just it's just nothing
17:57
Speaker 1: but pure insanity and evil. There was a former husband
18:02
Speaker 1: who ends up getting killed, you know, at her door,
18:07
Speaker 1: and at first it was considered justifiable. And then when
18:11
Speaker 1: you pull back the lens, you look at the big
18:14
Speaker 1: picture and you're like, oh, yeah, maybe that that was
18:19
Speaker 1: a setup. So it's entirely possible that now with the
18:23
Speaker 1: lens being pulled, you can actually see everything in focus.
18:26
Speaker 1: So we'll see, we'll see if there are additional charges
18:29
Speaker 1: there coming from the death of David Bragg. Now let's
18:36
Speaker 1: get into the really complicated alleged alleged murder plot. According
18:42
Speaker 1: to the Sierra Vista Police, Sarah allegedly asked husband number four,
18:48
Speaker 1: which would have been the current one at the time,
18:50
Speaker 1: I know, we need an org chart for this to
18:53
Speaker 1: kill the new wife of husband number three. Husband number three, Donahue,
18:59
Speaker 1: the one who she as the children with, told a
19:05
Speaker 1: judge this while he was trying to get a protective
19:09
Speaker 1: order to keep her away from him and his family.
19:13
Speaker 1: That's how this alleged plot came out. So there's, you know,
19:19
Speaker 1: some documentation of it in a court. This allegedly happened
19:23
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Okay, try and follow me here.
19:30
Speaker 1: Christopher number three claimed that a number four husband number
19:37
Speaker 1: four told him that Sarah was pressuring her current husband
19:43
Speaker 1: to get rid of Christopher's new wife. I know, it's
19:45
Speaker 1: really really complicated, and that Sarah had given David, the
19:50
Speaker 1: new husband, a pistol to carry to and to act
19:55
Speaker 1: on her directions. And the current husband said, Zara said,
20:00
Speaker 1: and you can't come home until you finish the job.
20:04
Speaker 1: She was not killed, The new wife was not killed.
20:07
Speaker 1: No one was killed here in goodness, yes, And then
20:10
Speaker 1: a judge did grant a protective order in barring Sarah
20:15
Speaker 1: from any contact with Christopher or his family for two years.
20:20
Speaker 1: No surprise. Marriage number four didn't last very long, obviously,
20:24
Speaker 1: with this kind of drama. And here's the other thing. Okay,
20:29
Speaker 1: so there are no charges associated with the alleged plot,
20:33
Speaker 1: and I know this is complicated, and the okay, Sarah,
20:40
Speaker 1: let's get back to the current Joseph, the poor Joseph
20:43
Speaker 1: who's dead. Okay, number five, number five, Sarah was allegedly
20:48
Speaker 1: recounting the time that she was investigated for this murder
20:55
Speaker 1: plot to Joseph number five's and they got very scared
21:03
Speaker 1: and suspicious because now they hear about the fiance who
21:06
Speaker 1: she shot dead. Now they're hearing about this alleged plot
21:10
Speaker 1: and they're scared, thinking, oh my god, what's going to
21:13
Speaker 1: happen to Joseph. Okay, the FBI has had no comment
21:19
Speaker 1: on this case. No charges were ever brought. However, the
21:23
Speaker 1: Sierra Vista Police confirm that the FBI had asked the
21:29
Speaker 1: local police department to do extra drive bys at the
21:33
Speaker 1: home of husband number three, where the wife was the
21:36
Speaker 1: target of this alleged plot. Now it's also part of
21:40
Speaker 1: the protective order. But the question is why is the
21:42
Speaker 1: FBI allegedly involved in this?
21:44
Speaker 2: That's an interesting case. I do hope they pursue that
21:46
Speaker 2: one as well.
21:48
Speaker 1: Yes, And the fact that the two husbands three and
21:50
Speaker 1: four have been subpoenaed for this case, I think that
21:55
Speaker 1: will be fascinating. And in many ways, some of the
21:59
Speaker 1: inconsistence and the holes in the prosecution's case for me,
22:05
Speaker 1: that alleged murder plot, for me, those will be the
22:08
Speaker 1: nails in her coffin.
22:10
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so as well.
22:14
Speaker 1: And here's another reason. I think it's very strong because
22:18
Speaker 1: it's not like, oh, they're just saying it now, right,
22:22
Speaker 1: you can say anything. This was in a court was
22:28
Speaker 1: presented before a judge as proof as to this woman
22:32
Speaker 1: is potentially dangerous to me and my family. And then
22:36
Speaker 1: you couple that with what the police department said about
22:40
Speaker 1: the FBI asking for drive bys. That's very strong. That
22:45
Speaker 1: was a real perceived threat at the time. So I
22:52
Speaker 1: think that is the nail in her coffin.
22:55
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so as well.
22:56
Speaker 1: They're afraid of her, yes, right, the husbands, the ex
23:01
Speaker 1: husbands are afraid of her. I think Joseph would say
23:04
Speaker 1: with good reason. If he were still here today with us,
23:07
Speaker 1: he would say, and with good reason. And let's not
23:10
Speaker 1: forget about, you know, the fiance who is also dead,
23:14
Speaker 1: all right, Yes, so Sarah, how did Sarah and Joseph meet? Well,
23:19
Speaker 1: they met online and then the couple married February second
23:23
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two. Eleven months later, Joseph was in
23:26
Speaker 1: the hospital and dying. He was a diabetic, as we've said,
23:32
Speaker 1: and there have been the issues with Okay, what was
23:35
Speaker 1: going on? Was he truly managing this? He'd had it
23:38
Speaker 1: for such a long time. Joseph's condition was worsening despite
23:44
Speaker 1: their attempts to save him. Now, that to me is
23:47
Speaker 1: the interesting part here. Did things go so far medically
23:54
Speaker 1: that there it was the point of no return. I
23:57
Speaker 1: mean one would think, you know, sadly sometimes this does
24:00
Speaker 1: happen with diabetics, but this had gone to the point
24:03
Speaker 1: where there was no return. Because he died, they could
24:07
Speaker 1: not intervene anymore.
24:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is interesting. That's why I was questioning,
24:14
Speaker 2: is there something underlying we have no evidence of that.
24:16
Speaker 2: I'm just like, that is kind of odd. How she
24:18
Speaker 2: says she tried to give him jam and juice and
24:20
Speaker 2: things to try to revive him. That didn't work. She
24:22
Speaker 2: eventually called the ambulance, and when he gets to the hospital,
24:25
Speaker 2: they try and try and try, and they just cannot
24:28
Speaker 2: help him recover. So, yeah, that could count against her
24:32
Speaker 2: because they could be mismanagement maybe, you know, on his
24:35
Speaker 2: part of his insulin, but if you look at his
24:39
Speaker 2: entire life, everything was finantially met her. Now suddenly he's irrecoverable,
24:44
Speaker 2: then he dies from that. I mean, yeah, they could
24:47
Speaker 2: count against her for sure.
24:48
Speaker 1: And I wonder if the jury, and we really won't
24:52
Speaker 1: know until there's more evidence in this case, is someone's
24:57
Speaker 1: delay in calling nine to one one perceived to be
25:02
Speaker 1: so reckless that you lead to the death of someone.
25:06
Speaker 1: But as you said, she did call nine one one
25:08
Speaker 1: and he did get to the hospital. So there's a
25:16
Speaker 1: lot of murky stuff going on here, a lot of
25:18
Speaker 1: murky stuff. Now, when Joseph was in the hospital, he
25:23
Speaker 1: shared with the nurses that he was planning to divorce Sarah,
25:28
Speaker 1: that he had opened He told them he had opened
25:30
Speaker 1: his new bank account and that he was going to
25:32
Speaker 1: return to his hometown. So I'm wondering if those were
25:35
Speaker 1: among the first of the red flags that the nurses
25:38
Speaker 1: were like, hmmm, this sounds like a dangerous situation.
25:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone them watched some true crime see the patents.
25:47
Speaker 2: Wait what so so you were you were trying to leave,
25:50
Speaker 2: and you were trying to open you open a new
25:52
Speaker 2: bank account, and you were going to move and then
25:54
Speaker 2: he passes away. Yeah, that's a huge red flag.
25:57
Speaker 1: On January fifteenth of twenty twenty three, Joseph passed way
26:00
Speaker 1: and medical examiners were able to confirm that Joseph's death
26:05
Speaker 1: was caused by toxic effects of insulin, but again, manner undetermined. Okay,
26:13
Speaker 1: After the poor man passes away, Sarah goes on Facebook
26:16
Speaker 1: claiming that she was numb and lost without Joseph, that
26:22
Speaker 1: you know she kind of appeared to be that grieving
26:25
Speaker 1: widow and that she was listening to his old voicemails
26:31
Speaker 1: so she could hear his voice. And then she posts,
26:36
Speaker 1: I guess I'm going to try to sleep. I can't
26:38
Speaker 1: possibly cry and weep any more than I have this evening.
26:45
Speaker 1: I love you, Joseph Hartsfield.
26:49
Speaker 2: Right, but when it out of the marriage, you know
26:52
Speaker 2: what I mean, it cant be both. It can't be both.
26:54
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say this, I sear. Let's say
26:57
Speaker 1: you're divorcing someone, right, and then all of a sudden
27:00
Speaker 1: and they die suddenly, and then you know, you have
27:04
Speaker 1: these feelings of of grief and loss for the person
27:08
Speaker 1: you once loved. Like, I don't think that's so unusual,
27:13
Speaker 1: but I hear what you're saying. I mean, she does
27:15
Speaker 1: appear to be very cold blooded and calculating.
27:18
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna toss that out there as a possibility. Right,
27:21
Speaker 2: It's just a little who's she trying to convince? Because
27:23
Speaker 2: it's like on social media and I couldn't possibly weep anymore,
27:27
Speaker 2: Like why do you have to post it? What's the intention?
27:30
Speaker 2: Who are you trying to convince and maniputate that's where
27:32
Speaker 2: my mind goes.
27:33
Speaker 1: And I think you're right. I do, I honestly do
27:36
Speaker 1: believe that. I was just thinking, could you have compassion
27:41
Speaker 1: for someone you're trying to divorce when they suddenly die?
27:45
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, right, because that's a shocking event,
27:48
Speaker 1: the loss of a human life. But I guess she's
27:51
Speaker 1: kind of numb to these things. It seems so one
27:57
Speaker 1: would think so, So this is kind of weird. According
28:04
Speaker 1: to her friends, Sarah, you know, prior to this hospitalization,
28:11
Speaker 1: was you know, not that sensitive to Joseph, not that
28:16
Speaker 1: loving and warm and fuzzy. And according to NBC News,
28:21
Speaker 1: Sarah was sharing with a friend and allegedly wrote, I've
28:25
Speaker 1: paid for everything to the point that I have nothing left.
28:28
Speaker 1: He was just looking for a meal ticket and a
28:31
Speaker 1: way back to a lifestyle that he could never attain
28:34
Speaker 1: on his own. She was resentful, but it's not like
28:37
Speaker 1: she kept that a secret. She resented the fact that
28:39
Speaker 1: he didn't make enough money, She wasn't happy in the marriage,
28:43
Speaker 1: she wasn't happy with him. But does that lead to murder?
28:50
Speaker 2: Does it? Yeah? I mean in this case, it really could,
28:53
Speaker 2: But it depends again, what the if the jury could
28:55
Speaker 2: see those messages, isn't he isn't husband number five? Also
28:59
Speaker 2: the one that she posted about being like a mama's
29:01
Speaker 2: boy and that he couldn't handle real relationship problems. He
29:04
Speaker 2: handled it like a boy. Isn't it that? I don't know.
29:06
Speaker 2: There's so many there's so many hard so there's so
29:09
Speaker 2: many husbands. I need a chart to refer to here.
29:12
Speaker 2: So I think that was perhaps Joseph. So if those
29:15
Speaker 2: messages come in and what she posted, it could paint
29:17
Speaker 2: the whole picture for the jury.
29:19
Speaker 1: And I think the testimony of his mother and his sister,
29:23
Speaker 1: that's very strong testimony because he is the victim here,
29:27
Speaker 1: so to hear from the mother and the sister I
29:29
Speaker 1: think will have a huge effect on the jury. Well.
29:32
Speaker 1: Sarah is ultimately arrested in February of twenty twenty three,
29:36
Speaker 1: and she was initially held on five million dollars bond
29:40
Speaker 1: because the authority said, this woman is a flight risk
29:43
Speaker 1: and you know, we don't know what she's going to do.
29:47
Speaker 1: The defense said, this is ridiculous, that's too high, so
29:50
Speaker 1: that judge lowers it to two millions. She still can't
29:52
Speaker 1: get out. You know, it's lowered, but she still can't
29:54
Speaker 1: get out. So her trial began in earnest September twenty ninth,
29:59
Speaker 1: twenty two this year, and there is a jury of
30:03
Speaker 1: eight men and four women. I find that the whole
30:08
Speaker 1: thing is going to be very interesting. And in the
30:10
Speaker 1: opening arguments, prosecutors claim that Sarah had resented Joseph and
30:16
Speaker 1: how close he was to his family, and how he
30:20
Speaker 1: didn't make any money and worked these really long shifts,
30:24
Speaker 1: and that Joseph was making these plans to leave Sarah
30:28
Speaker 1: and she did whatever she could to stop him, that
30:32
Speaker 1: he was not going to leave her. She could leave him,
30:35
Speaker 1: but he could not leave her. And the defense has
30:39
Speaker 1: been very clear on the holes that they're poking here.
30:45
Speaker 1: We still don't know truly what the manner of death was.
30:49
Speaker 1: It's not been ruled a homicide. And you know, Joseph
30:54
Speaker 1: really didn't take very good care of himself and had
30:56
Speaker 1: been previously hospitalized, so did have all sorts of medical conditions,
31:02
Speaker 1: and they acknowledge the defense acknowledges, okay, Sarah's reaction to
31:09
Speaker 1: this immediate medical crisis. Maybe she didn't handle that as
31:14
Speaker 1: best she could, but that doesn't mean that she's guilty
31:18
Speaker 1: of murder. So that's how they're framing it.
31:24
Speaker 2: It's well framed. I mean, even from the defense. I
31:26
Speaker 2: think it's going to be a tough battle in the courtroom,
31:28
Speaker 2: depending on what evidence they bring out that we haven't
31:30
Speaker 2: heard of yet. But that does sound tough. It does
31:33
Speaker 2: sound like they might not be able to convict her
31:36
Speaker 2: or prove that, but certainly would open the door to
31:39
Speaker 2: prove other things.
31:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, this will be fascinating. This trial is expected to
31:44
Speaker 1: last three weeks. And one of the questions that everyone
31:47
Speaker 1: has is will Sarah take the stand in her own defense?
31:52
Speaker 1: We do not know the answer to that. It is
31:55
Speaker 1: time for our comment section. These are the crime cases
31:58
Speaker 1: you all are talking about on social media. Here's our producer,
32:00
Speaker 1: Will Updike. Hey, Will, how are you good?
32:03
Speaker 4: How's it going?
32:04
Speaker 3: Anna?
32:04
Speaker 1: It's sweater weather in Los Angeles. Look at you.
32:08
Speaker 3: I know the listeners and yours can't tell, but it
32:11
Speaker 3: is overcast, it is rainy and Los Angeles. I have
32:13
Speaker 3: been waiting for this for I don't know how many months.
32:17
Speaker 3: I love the summer, I love the sunshine, but eventually
32:19
Speaker 3: you're like, you're ready for some weather, You're ready for
32:21
Speaker 3: some fall, and.
32:23
Speaker 4: I'm That's where I'm at right now.
32:26
Speaker 3: This case not very fall I'm calling it for a
32:29
Speaker 3: good time, don't call it comes out of Miami, Florida,
32:32
Speaker 3: where a woman allegedly lured a Rolex wearing man with
32:35
Speaker 3: alcohol and the promise of massages before robbing.
32:39
Speaker 4: Him with a female friend.
32:41
Speaker 3: So our suspect here, Hukana Davis, was arrested in charged
32:47
Speaker 3: with burglary of an occupied dwelling, third degree grand theft,
32:51
Speaker 3: an organized scheme to defraud all in connection with this
32:55
Speaker 3: alleged bad date scam that took place in March. Now,
32:59
Speaker 3: if you're unfamiliar with this sort of like bad date moniker,
33:03
Speaker 3: it's not the ones that you've probably experienced before. Uh
33:06
Speaker 3: you know, I think we've all we've all had a
33:07
Speaker 3: few that have maybe felt like skives. But please say
33:10
Speaker 3: these kind of scams are the result of women approaching
33:12
Speaker 3: men wearing expensive jewelry kind of looking like they have
33:15
Speaker 3: some sort of air of wealth. They approach them at
33:18
Speaker 3: nightclubs and stuff, where they agree to accompany the men
33:21
Speaker 3: back to their homes.
33:21
Speaker 4: For you know, some fun.
33:23
Speaker 1: But massages, yeah you can.
33:25
Speaker 4: You can fill in the blanks for yourself.
33:27
Speaker 3: But according to police, this is like a pretty popular
33:29
Speaker 3: It's becoming a more prevalent thing there in in Miami.
33:32
Speaker 3: Obviously not a lot of nightlife in that area, there
33:35
Speaker 3: is some level of affluence. Uh, So it kind of
33:38
Speaker 3: makes sense.
33:39
Speaker 1: Uh.
33:39
Speaker 3: And basically, they'll, you know, they'll approach these men at nightclubs,
33:42
Speaker 3: sort of encourage them to drink more, sort of rendering
33:45
Speaker 3: them incapacitated, and then you know, they're they're.
33:48
Speaker 4: Able to get back to these these men's houses.
33:50
Speaker 3: So cops say, in this situation, uh, Davis our suspect here,
33:54
Speaker 3: who met the man who has not been named at
33:56
Speaker 3: a liquor store, though not not a nightclub, So a
33:59
Speaker 3: little bit of a setup in this one. The first
34:01
Speaker 3: person to approach the alleged victim here was Davis's friend,
34:06
Speaker 3: who hasn't been arrested in this whole thing, which is
34:09
Speaker 3: also kind of puzzling. We'll get into that, but they
34:11
Speaker 3: were identified as suspect one in this criminal complaint. They approached,
34:16
Speaker 3: Suspect one here, approached the victim. Two of them began
34:19
Speaker 3: engaging in small talk. At some point, Suspect one here
34:23
Speaker 3: gets into the alleged victim's vehicle and she stated, you know,
34:27
Speaker 3: her friend was drunk. The suspect one here and the
34:31
Speaker 3: victim arrive at the victim's apartment at around seven forty
34:34
Speaker 3: pm that night, the night of this legends in March here,
34:38
Speaker 3: and then Davis, the defendant here, showed up a little
34:42
Speaker 3: bit later. She showed up to the place around eight pm,
34:46
Speaker 3: and once inside here, Davis and suspect one allegedly mixed
34:50
Speaker 3: the victim of drink and encouraged him to drink. Which,
34:56
Speaker 3: I gotta be honest, if you're the victim in the scenario,
35:00
Speaker 3: there's kind of some red flags going off. I would think,
35:03
Speaker 3: you know, you're being approached by a stranger. They're telling
35:05
Speaker 3: you their friend is strong. You're that inviting said friend
35:08
Speaker 3: over to your house and letting them mixture you drink.
35:11
Speaker 4: I don't know.
35:12
Speaker 3: Again, you know, I haven't been in the scenario, obviously,
35:15
Speaker 3: of most respect to the victims, but it seems like
35:20
Speaker 3: there was some that there should have been some spidy
35:22
Speaker 3: senses going off at some point here. Now allegedly they
35:26
Speaker 3: kept kind of encouraging him to drink throughout this. According
35:30
Speaker 3: to the complaint, Davis told the man, oh, you are
35:32
Speaker 3: not drinking enough, and so they're they're like encouraging him.
35:36
Speaker 4: To drink more.
35:37
Speaker 3: All three of them are supposedly drinking here, and Davis
35:41
Speaker 3: allegedly starts talking about her massage skills, and she's kind
35:44
Speaker 3: of you know, rubbing.
35:45
Speaker 4: The man and police.
35:48
Speaker 3: The complaint says that while Davis was giving the victim
35:51
Speaker 3: a massage, the victim observed Suspect one grabbing his credit card,
35:55
Speaker 3: so he's starting to see something happening here, and then
35:59
Speaker 3: he at her, but Suspect one tells him to relax,
36:03
Speaker 3: calms him down, and then shortly after, according to the victim,
36:07
Speaker 3: he falls into like a deep sleep. So he's already
36:09
Speaker 3: gotten like this sort of ominous message that something that
36:13
Speaker 3: something bad is probably about to happen. But why, whether
36:16
Speaker 3: it's due to the alcohol, whether maybe there was something
36:18
Speaker 3: else involved. It didn't say in this complaint. There's no
36:21
Speaker 3: allegations of any sort of drugging or anything like that,
36:24
Speaker 3: so it's unclear. But he was unable to sort of,
36:27
Speaker 3: you know, prevent this any further. He was pretty incapacitated there. So,
36:33
Speaker 3: according to the victim, he woke up the next morning
36:36
Speaker 3: around seven thirty am discovered his iPhone was gone. Three
36:40
Speaker 3: thousand dollars was transferred from Vell from zell Rather to
36:44
Speaker 3: bank app that has been associated with what police are
36:49
Speaker 3: saying is a previous victim in a similar sort of
36:53
Speaker 3: bad date case, and that one was investigated by the
36:56
Speaker 3: Miami Police. The rolex that he was wearing, which was
36:59
Speaker 3: valued at our seven thousand dollars, was missing, and his
37:02
Speaker 3: spare car keys were also nowhere to be found. So again,
37:10
Speaker 3: there have been sort of other allegations of these bad
37:13
Speaker 3: dates schemes. You know, Davis has not been charged in
37:16
Speaker 3: any of these our suspects here, but they did bring
37:19
Speaker 3: her in as part of a lineup for this whole thing,
37:23
Speaker 3: and she was identified in the photo lineup about a
37:25
Speaker 3: month after the alleged incident, and then she the reason
37:30
Speaker 3: we're talking about this now is she was arrested on
37:32
Speaker 3: September thirtieth for these charges. So I'm not completely clear
37:36
Speaker 3: on what's transpired since that photo ID and like what
37:39
Speaker 3: other evidence they were able to collect. I don't know
37:41
Speaker 3: if they were able to maybe connect that Zell transfer
37:45
Speaker 3: or maybe if there was just something a little bit
37:47
Speaker 3: more concrete. But you have, you know, about five months here,
37:51
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm almost six months from the photo lineup
37:55
Speaker 3: alleged identification.
37:56
Speaker 4: To this arrest. So well, I'm sure that they found
38:00
Speaker 4: something a little bit more cover right.
38:01
Speaker 1: Well, there's probably video evidence. It takes a while to
38:03
Speaker 1: get the digital evidence. There may be video evidence from
38:07
Speaker 1: the liquor store, from a parking garage right from wherever
38:11
Speaker 1: it is that he lived. So it's entirely possible that
38:15
Speaker 1: you know, this could put them all at the same
38:17
Speaker 1: place on the same night together.
38:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because yeah, I mean, you obviously need more
38:23
Speaker 3: than a photo lineup, I identification. I would think for
38:29
Speaker 3: for prosecutors to move forward with any sort of charges,
38:31
Speaker 3: I think you would need something more substantial.
38:34
Speaker 4: But our suspect here Davis.
38:37
Speaker 3: As of the time of the most recent reporting, which
38:40
Speaker 3: was around Wednesday, so just about two days ago, she
38:43
Speaker 3: still remained behind bars at the Turner Guildford Night Correctional Center.
38:46
Speaker 3: She's on a twenty five hundred dollars bond and she
38:49
Speaker 3: has been ordered to stay there if the victim, stay
38:52
Speaker 3: away from the victim.
38:53
Speaker 4: If she does end up making that and is released.
38:56
Speaker 3: I'm kind of like, well, I guess, you know, so,
39:00
Speaker 3: I guess looking at these charges, you know, burglary, we
39:02
Speaker 3: haven't occupied dwelling, third degree grand theft, and an organized
39:06
Speaker 3: scheme to defraud. I don't know this this bond twenty
39:09
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars. I don't really know how that kind
39:11
Speaker 3: of stuff works, but I guess that, you know, maybe
39:15
Speaker 3: these are like more common things. I don't know if
39:17
Speaker 3: Miami has a similar bail thing to Los Angeles, to
39:20
Speaker 3: where you know, they try to keep bail like low
39:23
Speaker 3: or no unless it's more serious, more criminal matter. So
39:29
Speaker 3: unclear if she's going to be able to post that bond.
39:34
Speaker 3: I mean, it's only twenty five hundred bucks. I would
39:36
Speaker 3: think so, but I don't have any reporting on if
39:39
Speaker 3: she has been released or not. But bad date scheme.
39:45
Speaker 4: I just feel like.
39:46
Speaker 1: It's kind of typical. I mean, it's actually it feels
39:49
Speaker 1: really standard, doesn't it.
39:51
Speaker 4: Yeah.
39:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, and people were talking about how in the comments,
39:55
Speaker 3: how you know this is nothing. It's just interesting that
39:57
Speaker 3: it's such a prevalent thing there in the area in Miami.
40:02
Speaker 3: In Miami that they have, like you know, the they're
40:05
Speaker 3: they're looking at it like this almost like a criminal ring.
40:08
Speaker 3: It seems like of all these things, and obviously they're not.
40:11
Speaker 3: I don't think they're tied or centralized to one single thing,
40:15
Speaker 3: but it's common enough that they are they're certainly on
40:19
Speaker 3: the lookout for it. I guess, just I guess, be
40:21
Speaker 3: careful when you're out there.
40:23
Speaker 4: Just that's right, be care just just be careful.
40:27
Speaker 3: I got a lot of comments on this one. Uh
40:29
Speaker 3: nadir A d said, tag team. It reminded me of
40:32
Speaker 3: kind of like you know a w w E thing
40:34
Speaker 3: where you have like people coming in and out.
40:37
Speaker 4: Of the ring.
40:38
Speaker 3: This is like, I'm so curious again, like I'm not
40:41
Speaker 3: sure what the deal is with the friend, and I
40:45
Speaker 3: think we'll know more once we get more of the
40:48
Speaker 3: evidence that they that they were able to like concretely
40:52
Speaker 3: put this on Davis here, because you know, maybe all
40:56
Speaker 3: the the paper trail type stuff, right like the Zell transfer,
41:03
Speaker 3: maybe there's some evidence of them hawking this rolex or something.
41:09
Speaker 1: You know.
41:09
Speaker 3: I don't know why exactly only one person would be
41:12
Speaker 3: charged in this, especially because the victim themselves said that
41:15
Speaker 3: they witnessed UH this suspect one here taking the credit cards.
41:19
Speaker 3: So I'm not really.
41:20
Speaker 1: Sure cooperating, I mean generally too right, the unindicted co
41:25
Speaker 1: conspirator sometimes UH is cooperating and could be cooperating on
41:31
Speaker 1: a bigger level. So that's entirely possible.
41:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, life is a criminal.
41:40
Speaker 1: Will you know you got to look for the opportunity
41:42
Speaker 1: to get yourself out of a jam.
41:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I guess, yeah, I get I would be
41:47
Speaker 3: worried about the repercussions, but I don't know, I don't know.
41:51
Speaker 4: That's why I just stay away from crime. It's a
41:53
Speaker 4: little bit.
41:53
Speaker 1: Uh, that's good will.
41:54
Speaker 4: It makes my life a little less messy for the
41:56
Speaker 4: most part.
41:57
Speaker 3: I can you know, I got an I can get
42:00
Speaker 3: enough legal mess in my life without that.
42:02
Speaker 4: Uh.
42:03
Speaker 3: Mister Soup was impressed with this, They said, slag queen,
42:06
Speaker 3: which again, I would never advocate for any kind of crime,
42:11
Speaker 3: but this does seem like an like such a crime
42:13
Speaker 3: of opportunity that is like rapidly presenting itself to you.
42:18
Speaker 3: Because this wasn't like, you know, this was just like
42:20
Speaker 3: at a liquor store or something like it. You know,
42:22
Speaker 3: you didn't even have to like go to the club.
42:24
Speaker 1: Or you didn't have to work hard.
42:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like true, truly, like and it's one
42:30
Speaker 3: of those things too that's obviously like no, like no,
42:34
Speaker 3: theft is victimless, but like you have the person here
42:36
Speaker 3: like letting they're you know, they're letting the alleged suspects
42:39
Speaker 3: here into their house and stuff.
42:41
Speaker 1: It's it's well, I'm sure he was expecting a good time. Huh.
42:44
Speaker 1: That's pretty sick, you know, and that will get over
42:47
Speaker 1: this one.
42:48
Speaker 4: That's like so tricky.
42:49
Speaker 1: He wanted a therapeutic massage and some other stuff.
42:52
Speaker 4: That's so tricky though, you know, it was a look up.
42:58
Speaker 4: I don't know.
43:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess maybe if that's what
43:02
Speaker 3: you're looking for.
43:03
Speaker 4: It's kind of like, uh.
43:04
Speaker 1: Well, they weren't going to play majah.
43:07
Speaker 4: No. I agree, I agree. But like I I'm never
43:12
Speaker 4: I'm never.
43:12
Speaker 3: Willing to engage with with something where like I'm being solicited,
43:17
Speaker 3: you know. Like so if I'm getting a phone call
43:19
Speaker 3: about some financial opportunity or something, I'm not taking that
43:23
Speaker 3: because it's I haven't searched this out, you know, it's
43:26
Speaker 3: come to me, and so I can only be skeptical
43:28
Speaker 3: of it. So maybe just apply that same you could
43:31
Speaker 3: just sort of apply that same sort of vibe.
43:32
Speaker 1: But you know, people are coming at us right all
43:35
Speaker 1: the time. They're either coming at us at the phone,
43:37
Speaker 1: they're coming at us at the store, They're coming at
43:39
Speaker 1: you as you're getting in and out of your car.
43:41
Speaker 1: I was once in a department store. This is one
43:43
Speaker 1: of the weirdest things, and all of a sudden, this
43:46
Speaker 1: woman walks right by me, very close in the department store,
43:50
Speaker 1: and I felt literally like like a magnetic buzz. I
43:56
Speaker 1: felt something. I don't know how else to describe it,
43:59
Speaker 1: other than like a gentle zapping, some kind of a
44:03
Speaker 1: magnetic buzz. That's all I can describe. And then she
44:07
Speaker 1: looks at me and she says, did you feel that
44:10
Speaker 1: as if it was like a magnetic like one of those,
44:13
Speaker 1: and I'm like, looking at her, I'm like, and she's
44:16
Speaker 1: everything about her is just off right. Everything about her hair,
44:21
Speaker 1: her cloak, everything is just slightly off. And what she
44:25
Speaker 1: was trying to do was to engage me, either to
44:29
Speaker 1: do a reading for me, is what I think, or
44:32
Speaker 1: she was going to try and get into my pocketbook,
44:35
Speaker 1: as I say, as an old lady from New York,
44:36
Speaker 1: my pocketbook into my handbag. And then I just like
44:43
Speaker 1: I brushed her off. I'm like, I got no time
44:45
Speaker 1: for you, lady. And then I watch her do this
44:47
Speaker 1: to all these other people. So she had something in
44:50
Speaker 1: her purse that she could like put on that would
44:54
Speaker 1: make you feel like something had just happened between the
44:57
Speaker 1: two of you, and now we need to engage and
45:00
Speaker 1: discuss this magnetic moment we had. They come at you
45:05
Speaker 1: all the time.
45:06
Speaker 4: Will an what an opener though?
45:08
Speaker 3: You know that's yeah, you need one of those, just
45:12
Speaker 3: to engage in some uh some conversation.
45:14
Speaker 1: Maybe would you distract me from my handbag? No doubt?
45:17
Speaker 1: Why else?
45:18
Speaker 4: She just wanted to chat with anything.
45:20
Speaker 1: No, she did not. I may have a little bit
45:25
Speaker 1: of a magnetic personality at times, but no, lady, I
45:29
Speaker 1: generated myself. I have my own magnetic field.
45:34
Speaker 3: I like that everything about her was a bit off.
45:36
Speaker 3: I hope that's not what people are saying about me
45:37
Speaker 3: when I pop on the zoom. Anyways, we got some
45:41
Speaker 3: I'll close this one out with some actually some advice
45:43
Speaker 3: from Manuel S who said I'll stick with my cassio
45:46
Speaker 3: when I go out.
45:47
Speaker 4: Which also is like a pretty good way.
45:49
Speaker 3: To avoid some of these situations. Maybe don't flaunt anything
45:54
Speaker 3: and then you won't be a target.
45:56
Speaker 1: But that will do it.
45:57
Speaker 4: For this wee's conversation. And do you have any comments
45:59
Speaker 4: you want.
45:59
Speaker 1: To show I do I do from last week's podcast,
46:02
Speaker 1: please stand by. Okay, so this is from Pamela h
46:07
Speaker 1: Happy Vibes. So Pamela has been with us for years.
46:11
Speaker 1: She's one of our best and most loyal fans, and
46:16
Speaker 1: we love Pamela and her whole family. So she writes
46:19
Speaker 1: about last week's podcast, Anna, you have the best guess
46:23
Speaker 1: and we do. We do. When Mike said the true
46:27
Speaker 1: crime community across the border really good people, maybe trying
46:30
Speaker 1: to minimize the risk and are not trying to re
46:33
Speaker 1: traumatize people. Such profound words from such an amazing man,
46:37
Speaker 1: putting his impressive career aside. Mike is just a good
46:40
Speaker 1: person and I appreciate him in You so much. That's
46:43
Speaker 1: Mike King, who is a specialist in cults and serial predators,
46:48
Speaker 1: and you know he's always giving back to the community,
46:53
Speaker 1: and he also builds birdhouses as this one, this little
46:57
Speaker 1: church birdhouse that he builds for me. He was on
47:00
Speaker 1: last week and said a crime con people were approaching
47:03
Speaker 1: him and saying, could where can I buy one of
47:06
Speaker 1: your bird houses? And he's like, they're not for sale.
47:08
Speaker 4: It's invite only.
47:10
Speaker 1: Invite only. That's right, very exclusive club. And then Crazy
47:14
Speaker 1: Cat Lady Stephanie writes, Hey, Anna and team, Hey Mike,
47:18
Speaker 1: I've learned much listening to you. Thanks everyone, We thank you.
47:22
Speaker 1: We hope that our conversations, you know, make us think
47:25
Speaker 1: about relationships. Really it's about red flags and relationships. And also,
47:30
Speaker 1: I know we mentioned this last week, but it arrived
47:32
Speaker 1: this week. We now have a new award. This this
47:36
Speaker 1: like black block, which is so heavy. I can't even
47:40
Speaker 1: tell you how heavy this thing is. It's like twenty pounds.
47:43
Speaker 1: I would get up and get it, but I you know,
47:44
Speaker 1: I need a Dolly to get over here. Yeah, and
47:47
Speaker 1: it's for best podcasts at Crime con. But here's the thing,
47:50
Speaker 1: and I just posted this on Instagram or on TikTok.
47:53
Speaker 1: It came with a pair of white cotton gloves, which
47:56
Speaker 1: I have right next to them right there. I have
47:59
Speaker 1: never received an a that came with a pair of
48:01
Speaker 1: white cotton gloves to keep the fingerprints off, which I
48:04
Speaker 1: think is a crime thing. No evidence. Nice.
48:09
Speaker 2: I like that.
48:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, that will do it for this week's coments section.
48:14
Speaker 4: You want to thank everybody who did those.
48:15
Speaker 3: You can do that over on our YouTube community page.
48:17
Speaker 3: You're going to be a part of this segment. You
48:18
Speaker 3: can also, of course comment on every single one of
48:20
Speaker 3: our videos and it does read your comments.
48:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll do it for me until next week. Hey,
48:27
Speaker 4: don't do crime.
48:28
Speaker 1: So Gizzila, where can people find you and follow you?
48:34
Speaker 2: They can find me on YouTube at Grizzly true Crime.
48:37
Speaker 2: That's my channel double Z like the bear. My logo
48:39
Speaker 2: is a bear too, Grizzly Bear, but Grizzly True Crime.
48:42
Speaker 2: And then most days of the week, actually on weekends
48:44
Speaker 2: as well, mostly live streaming. There's videos as well. Al
48:47
Speaker 2: is making some kind of content for the viewers, So
48:50
Speaker 2: I hope to see some of your viewers over there
48:52
Speaker 2: as well.
48:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm always curious about, you know, how people get
48:56
Speaker 1: into true crime. What was it about it that that
49:01
Speaker 1: interested you.
49:03
Speaker 2: I think I've just always been as cliched as it
49:06
Speaker 2: sounds like, safety orientated. I've always felt like responsible, you know,
49:10
Speaker 2: like a like a little justice warrior, so always trying
49:13
Speaker 2: to look out for people, always trying to spot the
49:15
Speaker 2: red flags, trying to stay safe. And that evolved eventually
49:18
Speaker 2: at some point I was an airline pilot at South
49:21
Speaker 2: African Airways, and that's all about checklists, safety, being responsible
49:25
Speaker 2: for people's lives. And then eventually when I left the
49:28
Speaker 2: airline and left South Africa, I now live in Switzerland,
49:32
Speaker 2: then you know, it all just evolved from writing some
49:34
Speaker 2: books in through Crime and then a podcast and then
49:36
Speaker 2: going to YouTube and just sharing those lessons, and as
49:39
Speaker 2: you say, it's about the relationships as well, just learning
49:42
Speaker 2: from all these ways that these complicated ways that people
49:46
Speaker 2: try to solve problems which just make their life absolutely
49:50
Speaker 2: terrible as well and ruin so many people's lives with crime.
49:53
Speaker 2: So I was trying to think outside the box, what
49:55
Speaker 2: can we learn from this, How can we stay safe?
49:57
Speaker 2: Why do people do this? And spell it out for people,
49:59
Speaker 2: Murder is not a way to solve problems. Some people
50:03
Speaker 2: might need to actually hear that.
50:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I do that. We could say it, but
50:06
Speaker 1: I'm not sure anybody's going to really hear it because
50:10
Speaker 1: people just make really bad decisions and choices all the time.
50:13
Speaker 1: But we're talking about a human life here. This is
50:16
Speaker 1: not a decision that should be made lightly. And it
50:19
Speaker 1: will not solve problems under any circumstances.
50:22
Speaker 2: Nope, And they will get caught.
50:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially more so now more so now although look
50:28
Speaker 1: at the case that we discussed today. You know, it's current.
50:31
Speaker 1: We have all the science possibly available to us, and
50:35
Speaker 1: yet you know, no matter who looks at the autopsy
50:39
Speaker 1: and the results. The determination is we do not know
50:45
Speaker 1: the manner of death. Yes, right, it's one of those
50:49
Speaker 1: few times that we do not know and that that
50:51
Speaker 1: is crucial to this case. Well, it has been such
50:54
Speaker 1: a pleasure. I love What time is it there in Switzerland?
50:58
Speaker 2: In Switzerland, the current time is eight pm on October
51:01
Speaker 2: third of twenty twenty five.
51:03
Speaker 1: Thank you. I know I sound like again the crazy
51:07
Speaker 1: what time is it over there?
51:10
Speaker 2: Ask anytime?
51:12
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, I appreciate it. It's it's wonderful. I'm
51:15
Speaker 1: so glad that you came back again. So you can
51:18
Speaker 1: find pretty much everything that we do on social media
51:21
Speaker 1: one very simple handle my True Crime News. You can
51:26
Speaker 1: find all our episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe
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Speaker 1: where we have the conversation. After the podcast, it just
51:34
Speaker 1: continues and lives on and we continue to talk about
51:37
Speaker 1: these cases. Sign up to receive our newsletter at true
51:39
Speaker 1: crime News dot com. So until next week, this is
51:41
Speaker 1: True Crime News the podcast. I'm your host, Anta Garcia.
51:44
Speaker 1: Crime never stops, and neither do we