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Grant Writing Expert Holly Rustick on Getting Your Book into Colleges & Universities · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyWriterLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was a college professor for many years before getting into ghostwriting and author coaching.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the hallmarks of any college course is that it includes textbooks.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And since authors are behind those textbooks, you know, authors are the ones who wrote those books, it stands to reason that we as writers should be thinking about this incredible opportunity to get in front of a huge potential audience, right?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you would think so, but surprisingly, the vast majority of us don't think about this incredible gold mine of opportunities.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that certainly included me until I had a conversation with the genius grant writing expert and author, Holly Rustic, a few months ago.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I learned that she had been doing this for a long time, and I wanted to invite her here onto the podcast to talk about what we can learn from her experience getting her book into colleges and universities.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you a little bit about Holly.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: World-renowned grant writing expert and Amazon best-selling author, Holly Rustic, loves to coach others to enhance their grant writing and business skills.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: She teaches thousands of people every week through her top-ranking podcast about grant writing and funding how to take actionable, bite-sized steps to build our skills in grant writing and business.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Having secured millions of dollars for nonprofit organizations around the world throughout the past 15 plus years, Holly has a mission to train other grant writers to create a multiplier effect in raising an exponential amount of money for nonprofits all over the world.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So on today's episode, Holly shares how she was able to get her incredible book into classrooms as a textbook, and that book is titled The Beginner's Guide to Grant Writing Tips, Tools, and Templates to Write Winning Grants.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now we also preface the conversation with some general thoughts about nonprofits and the incredible value they bring to the world.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you are familiar with nonprofits and grant writing and getting your book into classrooms uh or you're not, maybe this topic is really new to you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna learn a ton from this conversation.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And even more importantly, I think you're gonna be really, really inspired by Holly's positivity, her wisdom, her skill, and her knowledge.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm thrilled to bring you this conversation with the amazing Holly Rustic.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Holly, it's great to have you on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was on your show a little while back, and now we are kind of turning the tables.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Good to have you.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here on your podcast.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited that you're on the Grant Writing and Funding podcast, too.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's always great to see other podcasters and chat with you as well.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So much fun.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited to see the things that that you're working on.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the these are things you're kind of other kinds of writing you're working on.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be excited to see what transpires with those in the coming year or two, or you know, whatever time frame may work for those.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um when you have more to say about that, then you'll have to come back and share that with our audience.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Again, all you the listeners out there, Kent and I've been chatting a lot in the green room and use amazing resources and networking.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for all of your uh referrals and everything, and just like chatting, good getting through some of these things for an amazing ghostwriter than well.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you do um you do some interesting things in the realm of writing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you do grant writing, and you're known as is it fair to say you're kind of like the expert with grant writing?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to me, you're the expert, or at the very least, one of the main experts.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: It this isn't really my field, but you appear to know pretty much everything there is to know about it, and people come to you for advice.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that makes you a pretty credible authority in my book.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been doing this for almost 20 years.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, and I have knob a lot with all those grant writers.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Beverly Browning, um, author of Grant Writing for Dummies, is like the guru in this space.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And her and I have developed a course together um to help nonprofits actually get started.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, people thinking about starting a nonprofit, we've done that together.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I work with um all of the people up in here that uh yeah, are really, you know, the thought leaders and then in looking at and staying on the cutting edge of all things grants, which is important because for those of you who aren't familiar with grants, they are monies that are awarded by either the federal government, state governments, or foundation in non-government ways, but they do allow nonprofits and even businesses at times to um get funding where they might not be able to find it traditionally to kind of fill some gaps.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is, and you know, the nonprofit sector is it's a huge part of the economy in the United States with almost 5.7% of the GDP from the nonprofit sector.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it is the fastest growing industry as well in the United States, yeah, since 2016.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we are increasing by 16% every year.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's compared to private business and government.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: The nonprofit is the largest growing industry.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at just the economic impact that nonprofits can have, grant writing is a huge part of that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it is um, yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something about grants before.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So there's kind of like a little outline, but it really does help not just drive programs forward, but those programs hire people to run it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: They rent space, they order supplies.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is a huge part of our economy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what is going on?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure, I'm sure this is a really huge question, but what's going on culturally or globally that the nonprofit sector is growing so much?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just a lot of things, you know, um, people really want to find ways to have more meaning, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And to contribute.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing that overall, but we're also seeing so just people wanting to move into this job sector out of private or out of government work.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're also just seeing, you know, um people are having access to things like the internet and understanding how to file for a nonprofit a lot easier.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of barriers there.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is like that, you know, wow of being able to a lot of nonprofits start because they go, oh, there's grants out there, we'll be able to get funded, no problem.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's like another story.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, so there's there's also that ease.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's just more talk about it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people kind of hear about the work and they see the work that nonprofits do.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody in here knows or has heard of a nonprofit, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the boys and girls clubs, right?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: All of those kind of things, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: The Girl Scouts, like all the things um that the nonprofit can do.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's been interesting to see like this growth happen.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, part of it's just access, part of it's social movement, you know, and and we're seeing that more and more, especially since that pandemic, too, is people really trying to, you know, we're seeing the great resignation, we're seeing quiet quitting, we're seeing huge movements as far as people moving from private and government into nonprofit space because they do want to have more flexibility, which sometimes nonprofits can offer that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, they do want to find more meaning in what they're doing, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be a platform for their their values, if you will.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that totally makes sense.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had not really um associated the kind of the search for meaning with with nonprofits, but that totally makes sense.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for people who are listening who, and obviously this is a writing podcast.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So people who listen to this want to be writers or they already are writers.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: If they want to find out more about grant writing and how to get into that, obviously you've got a book on that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what other resources do you have that they could dive into that would help them learn more about grant writing in particular?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I have the book, The Beginner's Guide to Grant Writing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I also have the Grant Writing a Fundy podcast, as we've mentioned.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have a free grant writing class that they can come on to my website, just jump over there, grant writing with that's cool.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they can access that immediately.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a recorded class that I've done that goes through my grants formula so they can quickly, without overwhelm, learn how to write grants because it's kind of like this unicorn wizardry kind of image that a lot of people think of as grant writers, like, oh my gosh, that must be so hard.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that it's hard, it's just technical, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when you can break down the steps which we do with the grants formula, um, then people can really learn it without overwhelm and move forward.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing, Ken, as writers, that unicorn wizardry kind of plays in our advantage sometimes of people thinking, oh, it's so difficult.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you know through the grants formula, the technical abouts of how to write a grant, you have an advantage then, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're not stressed out when you're writing grants.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: But an executive director at a nonprofit, even when you mention the word grants, they're like, oh my gosh, I can't do that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because it, you know, it does take time.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if you just focus on that, the thing is, is there's over 1.5 million nonprofits registered in the United States alone.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: There is not that many grants out there.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is a lucrative job that you can have either as an employee at a nonprofit writing grants or as a freelancer being able to serve a lot of different nonprofits.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Nonprofits constantly looking for you.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is the party trick just at any kind of networking event, just to say you are a grant writer.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Heads will turn and whip it, look at you and say, Where's your business card?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know somebody who needs you if it's not them.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is really a great skill for writers to delve into if you're looking for, you know, working on the side, if you're looking for freelancing, if you're looking for a job, even.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because even I've I've gotten jobs just by telling people I'm a grant writer where I would normally not even have the qualifications to get a job, just because of that unicorn gem that I can dangle, because they know I can help get money for the organization, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, wow, it can get you in front of the line if you're looking for a job, just having that on your resume and knowing how to write to grants.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: That is see, this this is really genius advice because even if you're not doing grant writing full time, or in my case, even if you're not doing ghostwriting full time, using that as kind of your lead in how you describe yourself.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think this is an this is a really important point for writers because a lot of writers just say, Well, I'm I'm a writer or I'm a blogger, or I'm a freelance writer.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I always counsel uh writers, you know, if you it's it's great to ride for money, but don't ever ever just call yourself a freelance writer because there's a million freelance riders out there in the world.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, call yourself something that makes people turn their heads.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ghost Rider is one of those terms, and grant writer is one of those terms too, because people are like, What?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like the squirrel, what you know, I've just heard something really intriguing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's really good advice.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is something, like I said, it's the ultimate party trick.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mention your grant writer, like you will get attention.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and and the thing is, is too, is be I love that your advice, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't just be general, like be specific in your what kind of technical writing you do or what type of writing you do, because that's really gonna hone in.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and the the magic about saying grant writer is grants are automatically very connected with money, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so whenever it's something with money related, um, you know, one, you could probably charge a little bit more just because of that relation, because it's a direct, and I'm not saying that like another writer, like a blogger, couldn't get you donors on your list or couldn't get you a market, you know, like readers, you know, or whatever like that, but it's not as direct, like grant writer, you're like, they're gonna get me money.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: There is a direct connection.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit easier of a sell, and it's a little bit easier of them knowing, even though it's still like ambiguous to them, they know that it's money related.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very like, it's an interesting job for sure title.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So grant or writers out there, if you want, like, like, how do I kind of get more clients or you know, kind of elevate to another technical space?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Grant writing is definitely out there for you.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can learn it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you can make pretty good, decent money, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, doing it as well and get clients pretty quickly.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you can turn it into a lucrative business really quickly while you do maybe you like, I love doing creative writing though as well.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can still do that, but it might allow you, I like to call it the couch to sit on, that financial couch to sit on while you do your other writing.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's definitely something to think about.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there's there's definitely a lot to think about there.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like that line from well, what was the movie where they said follow the money?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't Jeremy.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremy.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it was follow the money.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Was it?
• 13:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually never seen that movie.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Shocking shockingly.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody else has.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's just the idea of I feel like sometimes those of us who have a creative bent, and I know you do too, Holly, you know, we we have kind of a business side of our brain, then we have the creative side of our brain.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really easy to let that artist or that creative art person sort of wrestle the business person to the ground, you know, and sort of pin him to the mat.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure why I'm using these wrestling metaphors because I haven't watched wrestling since you know 1987.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: With Nature Boy Ric Flair, but for whatever reason, it just flowed up in my brain just now.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it is kind of interesting because sometimes we we sort of feel bad that we're interested in money.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when when you have income from your writing, that's what makes the other stuff possible.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're going to make money in your writing, you have to work with or for people who have money to spend on your writing, which includes people in business and finance and you know, people who can afford your your amazing services.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not really that complicated.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and you know, it's just it's another way, like you can make money as a freelance writer, as a writer in so many different ways.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just one that I don't think a lot of people kind of put on their list as grant writing, but it's one that really could move you quickly into getting income so you can focus on the other things and that you want to as well.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the time being, you probably is a writer, most writers really enjoy grant writing too, as soon as they understand it and it clicks and they have those the systems right to do it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh yeah, this can this is really cool because like it's it's um the impact is big, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I say this as a grant writer, like for nearly 20 years, I've been getting grants for nonprofits all over the world and especially in my communities where I've lived.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's I've had people walk up to me and go, Holly, I have a job right now because of what you did, you know, because of the brain.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's powerful to see programs and kids and testimonials and and the impact that your writing directly has, you know, for that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it is like um, it's a really cool job.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's also cool to do like, you know, blog writing and then seeing like maybe, you know, someone you work with, like get new new sales for their courses or whatever.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: But this one has a little bit of a different impact because there are a lot of it's for social causes.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, especially you can even niche down as a grant writer and just work on causes that you believe in.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of the grant writers in my programs, like one of them, she works with performing arts nonprofits because that's her background and that's what she loves, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be another one.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: She focuses on natural conservation nonprofits.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many nonprofits out there that you can actually get really niche within this niche, and then just be able to market to those places and work on causes you believe in, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a cool kind of like multifold, like the multiverse of grant writing.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the effects and the impact that you can really have as a writer.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, it can support other things that you do, right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So pay your bills, like get those promotions, like all of the things that we talked about before, like whether you're a freelancer or working in a nonprofit or even in the for-profit world, people want to have you as a grant writer on their team.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great skill to have.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great way to get around movers and shakers.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yep.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime that you're doing business kinds of writing, and obviously grant writing would fall in there, certain kinds of ghostwriting would too, or I perhaps freelance writing or even podcasting or other things.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: If they can get you in the room with people who make big decisions about things and who are funding things and who have the money to do big things, like that's a cool feeling.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we should feel ashamed of that as writers.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, oh, not at all.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I want I want to have power.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I want to make things happen and be around people who are doing big things.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a good thing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you talked about because it's such a direct relation of money with grant writing, there's a lot of money trauma that comes up when you're like, how much should I charge my services?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like working with profits, I have a lot of scarcity mindset.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: We work on that a lot, actually, in the program is mindset and money trauma because that's going to come out, you know, in your pricing.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in this for any writer, not just grant writing, when you're pricing your services, we all have a certain amount of money trauma.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, and that's a really big thing.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, money is a big trigger, right?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: One of the number one reasons for divorce, war, like stuff.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's for real.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like we need to talk about it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people going into imposter syndrome as a writer, like if you have a client out there and you're like, okay, how much do I charge for my services?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a lot of internal stuff that come up that aren't necessarily facts, but they're thoughts, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we really like to look at those thoughts and then reposition them too to say, are those true?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where does that come from?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: How can we reposition that?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: How can we reframe that so it's a healthy way you're walking in there?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing is, is that a lot of writers, what you're going to do is walk into a sales call and you might start offering discounts before your client even asks for one.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might start doing just ridiculous things like, and then here's the thing the client grabs that price, and then you feel bitter towards the client because you're not getting paid what you know you're worth.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you're the one who gave the discount.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like there's a lot of stuff in just in general for any types of sales, but we're focusing on writers right now, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That comes with that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost amplified in the grant writing space because, like I said, so directly all of a sudden related to money.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're writing for money, you're doing things right.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it is something that I think is a beautiful thing that people go through when we really dig in and use the tools to look at how to price your services.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is your value?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: What is your time?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you even start this business?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Was it to work on that other thing?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Was it to have more time with your kids?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Was it to pay off your house?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's get there and work on those things as well.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's all a part of, you know, running a business, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: As well.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's yeah, it's interesting.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can see I'm I can totally go in the deep end there, but mindset is a huge part of writers in general because we do need money to work on our things.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's a hobby, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of you might just have hobbies as writers.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know I do have some hobbies as writing too, but um, I would like to get my more positioned, all of my writing into uh profit so it can really help, you know, and and then it can multiply and get out there more too.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the more profitable you are as a person, the more good you can do in the world.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely the more people that you can hire.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: The it's not, and people think people think, okay, when you talk about profitability in your business, um, a lot of people believe that, oh, it's all about I gotta go buy a this hot rod car, I've gotta go on all these crazy vacations or whatever.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And nothing wrong with those, by the way.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: If that's nothing wrong with those things at all.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it but it is also about, hey, I can hire more staff, I can support their families, I can give a lot more money away the more that I have.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's a lot of good things you can do when you have more income.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, especially being so surrounded with a nonprofit world, like, you know, I like to contribute a certain percent like to a nonprofit, to a cause.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like then to allow the ability for me to serve on a board of directors if I have that income coming in where it positions me where I can volunteer.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many things.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in general, I know uh Rachel Rogers' books, We Should All Be Milli Millionaire, um, We Should All Be Millionaires, her book.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, it was a quote that she had pulled that was like 92% of women, once they have income coming in, actually contribute it back to their communities.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So in like first is like six percent.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, sorry.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, wait a minute, say that again.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a huge difference between men and women contributing the monies back into their community.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and women do that at a higher rate in general, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then we see like with grant writers, 82% are female.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I'm like, come on, woman, it really is more of um a larger goal for me to help people overcome that mindset and look at profitability, exactly what you said, because it's like we can do this, we can break cycles of poverty in our families, we can contribute more to our kids and allow more opportunities, contribute back into our communities in ways that are meaningful, right?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like I said, even if that extra income then allows you to volunteer for a board, you know, of a nonprofit or something that you love to do or take that holiday, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and have more experiences.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's nothing wrong with profitability.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: It actually helps um your community more, you know, when you're being able to hire more of that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the interview here in just a second, but first I want to share a word about today's sponsor.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Vellum.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, since you're listening to this podcast, obviously you know that this is a daily show and most of the episodes in i in any given week are little short episodes, just uh two or three minutes long, sometimes a little bit longer than that when I'm on a roll.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But uh by and large, uh this podcast consists of short episodes.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the comments that I hear from people constantly about this show is that they like those little short episodes.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And of course they love the interviews too, and as I look at the stats of interviews, people really, really like the interviews as well.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: But people also love those short episodes, and the reason why is because they're short.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: People are really, really busy.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as a writer, I imagine that, well, you're probably pretty busy as well, just like I am, and just like most people feel, especially if they're writing books, they've got business things going on, they've got lots of plans and things they want to do.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that you do not need to be spending time on.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a lot of worthy things to spend your time on, of course, but one of the things that is a complete waste of time is messing around with trying to format your book with software or with apps that were never meant to help you format your book correctly.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people format their books in Microsoft Word, which is absolutely crazy to me.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because Word was never meant to do that job.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are much, much better tools available, and the best tool by far, particularly if you're a Mac user, is the app Vellum.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Vellum is the book formatting software that I have been using for many years and I absolutely love working with the team at Vellum uh as a podcast sponsor.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: They are wonderful and they are not only cool people, but they put out a really, really great product as well.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's the go-to choice.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a Mac user who cares about creating beautiful ebooks and print books, and you want to save a lot of time in the process.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking for a good solution for formatting those book files and doing it fast and making them look really, really good, I recommend that you give Vellum a shot.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it by going to trivellum.com slash daily.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the cool thing about Vellum also is that I feel like I could go on and on about it because I genuinely do love Vellum and I use it uh multiple times a week, to be honest with you.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the cool things is that you can use every feature of the app for as long as you want to, and you only have to pay for it when you get ready to generate the files for ebook and print.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's pretty cool of the Vellum folks to do that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually kind of rare that you see that kind of arrangement in the app and software world.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos and a major thumbs up to the wonderful people at Vellum for being so generous and for making a really killer app that is so helpful.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, my friends, uh, check out Vellum, go to tryvellum.com slash daily, give it a shot, and I think you'll really love it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right, back to the conversation with Holly Rustic.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me dig into um so something that you mentioned when we talked last time.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked three or four times, I think, the past since beginning of the year.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that you mentioned uh on one of our calls that I was so intrigued by is this idea of how you got your book into how many schools did you get it into?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't even know anymore, honestly.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's at least like five or eight now.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now there's more.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I was able to get it into Vital Source.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's an online digital platform that serves universities um all around the world.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, especially certain countries with English speaking countries.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but like Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, all a lot of different places.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been really, really cool.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love that, you know, you talked about that because I I have taught at a university before, and it was what gave me the idea, actually, was and and I was thinking like, I have to review books and approve books for my classes.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't my book send out to different classes, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was something of an interesting thought and then conversation I had with Tim Groll was to say, hey, and he was like, Yeah, you should definitely get it into schools.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like, there's so many gatekeepers, Kent.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a as a professor, like there's a lot of it wasn't like authors sending me their books.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a publishing house that was working with the school and had a long-term relationship.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was my experience as a prof for a long time.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Publishers always bugging you about stuff, which I get, it's what they do.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was like, how do I do that?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because students are always gonna be buying the book, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that can be like it's a when we look at it as like our books, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and for my book, it's very specialized, the grant writing book that I have, the beginner's guide to grant writing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So getting it inside nonprofits, but I also thought, well, I could get it into courses because then I have um people, I have an audience that will buy it again and again and again for that course.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it just made sense to me for like a repeatable sales right strategy.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's a technical book, so it made sense, right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you could even have, I mean, there's so many different types of classes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what I did, and and the and the other idea was it was just organically getting into some college classes because I think of the nature of the book.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, wow, this is cool.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I get it into more, right?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when I talked to Tim, he was like, you need to email or get a hold, work directly with the professors and like get to the schools.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I need to talk to the professors.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do I talk to the professors?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you get in there?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: There, that is, you know, it's hard to find their emails.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: At first, I was having a virtual assistant like help me with emails for different schools, and that was just like a whole like thing.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's a lot of work.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So then I thought LinkedIn, LinkedIn, direct messaging.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody puts their profession on LinkedIn.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's where a lot of the professors are hanging out.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't I just DM them on LinkedIn?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I did.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I did go with the sales navigator um portion of LinkedIn, which is like a hundred bucks a month or something like that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what it can do is it can quickly find all of the different people that say they're you they're professors for grant writing courses, nonprofit courses, social courses, like you know, health courses.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many different courses that talk about grant writing.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I developed a script and then was able to easily send it out to at least 100 people a day and start that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what what my approach to that was just like, no, I don't know these people still, even though I'm getting directly to them and there's not a gatekeeper.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I offered them um a free e-copy of my book if they were interested to review first, just like a publisher would if sending it to a professor at a university.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: They do the same thing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of using that same strategy just to kind of be like, hey, I see that you teach grant writing or you teach this course that may include grants.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Would you be interested in um having a quick read?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean, or having a book and I can send it to you.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually offered when I first started doing it was e-copy or hard copy.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't mind paying the extra and mailing them a hard copy because I know a lot of professors they might click on the button to get the e-copy, but they're never going to look at it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have a hard copy that comes in the mail, it's more in your your face and on your desk and you know what I mean that you look at.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, so that was just kind of how I started getting it into more schools and getting the name out there more and being able to get more income because of that consistent repeat, you know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's a little you have to kind of like get in in there, but once they get it in their classes, they're gonna use it again and again and again, hopefully.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that's what teachers do.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: If if there's one thing I can say about teachers, it's you know, we we like to.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not a teacher anymore, I guess, not a professor anymore, but you once once you integrate a book into your curriculum, you don't really want to change it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge hassle.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is you're basing assignments on the book, you're doing sometimes teaching stuff around the book or learning activities or whatever.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So what percentage would you say?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um a couple percentages actually.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: What percentage of people on LinkedIn would you say even responded initially to your direct message?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I had someone, I did use a virtual assistant as well just to keep track of all of this, and she's amazing.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would say it wasn't like a huge percentage, but there, I don't know, I I, you know, maybe 10% would respond, which is pretty good.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're emailing complete strangers.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, it's like what I liked about LinkedIn was, you know, you're going to a place that's a little bit softer than just directly to their email and they never do any of their email.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not like Facebook or Instagram where it's a little, I don't know.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like LinkedIn people look at their DMs a little bit more, um, especially like professionals.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it may change in the future as everything's kind of like getting on slot.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: But this was just my strategy for the last couple of years.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's been, and um, I need to actually start because I only do campaigns once in a while.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: But another thing that I did was, and some people, you know, it's interesting, Kent, because they then they would send me this, say, hey, I'm not on here a lot.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you send me it here?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my email address, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So then I was able to do that and get their email and kind of get more personable with them.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: But another thing I developed too is because my book is actually a workbook too.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just on the side note, like if you're really looking, it just depends on your class.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I love it like that, and they really loved it as well because it's a workbook.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then I developed a two-page curriculum to say this is how you would use the book in your class.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's huge because that's really huge.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: As a teacher, you know how much planning goes into stuff.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But if I just have like, here's this, here's basically the lesson plan of how you use it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here's some lesson plans.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here you go.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it makes it easy for them to implement in their classes.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So easy.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the key.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think really that is the key right there.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: When I taught college, I did a public speaking course and I used a textbook put out by I forget what publisher it was, but they had the textbook, which was a really great textbook, but then they also had like all these online quizzes and stuff that came with it.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the students had to pay extra for that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it was great because I basically had the whole class set up for me from the beginning with all the slides and all that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my gosh, they've saved me an untold amount of work.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So so if so, if an author can take their book and do this pitching strategy to props, but then tell them, hey, this is gonna make your life easier.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what teachers really if they think something's gonna save them time or make their class teaching easier, like that's the big inroad right there.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing too is, you know, it really depends on your strategy.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, it was, you know, there's a lot of different reasons to get it in the universities.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have a little bit more cred, I think, right?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I've like, I have like University of Massachusetts, Arizona State University, like utilizing my book, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are huge names and great logos to put on things.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: But also like there's then there's the sales strategy as far as like just sales in books.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think more so for me, it was like I even had it was funny, Ken, this is I had a professor email me yesterday saying, Hey, I use your book for my class and I love your podcast and all the things.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we also use your my lead gen, basically, is what it is, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I have like a series of five blogs, and they're all about, and then they all have like a free lead gen that goes into it, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like, we also use that, and I noticed like your link was broken and I need to send it to my students.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And these are like ones I wrote years ago, Kent, years ago.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize these people were all coming in through my list, then that I pitched about my courses on grant writing and my programs, right?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also like I'm getting people in my courses and stuff from the book that's used in schools, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like an interesting um kind of side impact that it has.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So and it was so funny.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, thank you for letting me know those are old pages.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, you know, the ladies are like updated them.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was just cool, like to, you know, see the depending on what kind of marketing strategy you have for your book with universities, it doesn't just have to be the sales of the book, right?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my book, which all authors should do, I'm saying, go to this link to get these for an electronic downloadable or whatever it is.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to get them on your email list, right?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Too.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there's definitely a lot of that strategy as far as not just the sales of the book, although that's great, but also getting them into my programs where I can really help them as well.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there too.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to get my head around some possible numbers here.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you pinch 100 people on LinkedIn.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then 10 of those, I'm just going with a standard 10% closing rate.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just pulling that out of thin air.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just say 10%.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if 10% of those people uh respond, and then 10% of those 10 people, essentially one person adopts your book as a textbook.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know some people would go, would be like, okay, you pitched 100 and one person adopted the book, but how many students does that one person have over the next five years?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's potentially a lot.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and the thing is that you don't have to think super high numbers because of the, like you're saying, there's a replicable factor.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just them buying the book, the one person, it's their students and then their students over time.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not just trying to make the one sale.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need you don't need like these big, huge numbers.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: You just need sometimes you just need like that those one or two people to say yes, and that opens up a whole world.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like ghostwriting.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need that many yeses really to make a good living as a ghostwriter.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly a handful.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So and this is the thing.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you you can show them, I even have like a one-page um little like capability statement I made for my book, like a little book thing sales.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm able to put the logos of these universities that use my book.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I can put questions you can ask for the curriculum in that one pager.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just made it on Canva, right?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I can also, I also send that over um as kind of like a sales thing in my DM.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I play with that.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of fun too, because that just gives them like a one-page visual of saying, okay, oh wow, they have you know some of the top reviews from different schools I put on there, you know, that sort of thing.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the more like the more of that you get and the more credibility, and it just kind of like snowballs, right?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's just starting with the one, right?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, and then you can really develop more and more, which is pretty cool.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then it also helps, like, you know, for speaking gigs, when I can say, Yeah, my books are used in these universities, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of different books, yeah, that can happen with getting your book in a university, just because there's something about like universities do vet things, they do, you know what I mean?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um there's a higher kind of peer-reviewed kind of process and things, not necessarily all the books, but they have that more sophisticated vetting process.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can get your book inside a university, it just says something automatically.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty cool.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And your book is self-published, correct?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is now.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did you was there ever any hesitancy on the part of people in academia that your book was self-published?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody cares.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody cares, or nobody's told me.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I'm they don't care, you know.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't care.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: They really don't care as long as it's yeah, they don't care.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I think also having the podcast, I also have I have that, like they cross-pollinate my different resources.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it helps there too, just to have that credibility, right?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a website, um, I have a podcast.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think you have to have all those things, but I'm just saying it kind of helps just support your if they are thinking, oh, it's self-published or not.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think, yeah, you know, maybe 15 years ago, even 10 years ago, that would be a something that I would be a little more fearful of, but nowadays I'm just not, you know what I mean?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh it doesn't cross my mind, and those that have used it hasn't crossed their mind either.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty cool.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how does how does your book interface with Vital Source?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do they all purchase your book through Vital Source?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I had a university, uh Columbia Southern, they were they've been using my book for years, and they said, Hey, our bookstores are going all towards digital format to Vital Source.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually, it was funny because I wrote a grant about this a couple of years ago, not Vital Source, but it was other online.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I need to get my book in these platforms because this is the future of universities.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: It makes the books more affordable for students, there's more access, all of the things like it really does a huge turn.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would think in academics, our books are going online.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is these huge places like Vital Source is basically like think of it like a like an Amazon, right?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: For universities.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: But like, so uh students may have to pay a certain amount per semester and then they can check out different books, right?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it makes it an interesting place to be.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a place where then then you are the the instructors can go and look for books that they want to use, right?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all in this platform.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this university actually said, hey Holly, we're going online.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: We still want to use your book.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Would you be, you know, interested in in um working with Vital Source and getting your book on there so we can still utilize it?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yes, yes, please, because it just opens up the market more to me as well and gets my book in there.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um I've been working with them.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the easiest process, I will say there is a lot of different data they need and information.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so I'm still in the process, but we're all like, we've already worked through our contract and I'm getting my book up on there now.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just are you on vital source, Ken?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I thought I was, but it turns out I'm not.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I had one of my books on there before when I taught college because I used one of my own books for a course for a number of years that I was teaching, but it's not on there now.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't remember.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what happened, but it's but I need to explore that some more.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not as easy, like for you writers out there that have your books like on KDP and all that published, like that of yourself published.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's super like boom, boom, boom, right?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I used to think it was complicated, it's not.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot more information and there's a lot more, but there's also training because it's such a big platform.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been helpful, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I just have to like sit down and do like the final bit.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, as we speak, but get done because I'm really excited about getting it out there on that platform.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically paid out um the same as well, kind of like your royalties, and you know, with your royalties.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you get like a cut.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: They call it, they use different language there, but it's essentially the same.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get paid a certain percentage of your book sales, you know what I mean?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Easy like that.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and you can still use it, it's not like they have exclusivity as well for those of you who might be no, uh, I I still have full ownership and can put it anywhere.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I suppose if you uh if somebody was writing on topics, it would have to be the right topic, I suppose, but you could essentially create textbooks for colleges in, but you know, kind of like instead of writing a book and then thinking, okay, how could where could this fit into a college, you could create books specifically for use in courses and then pitch those directly to professors.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose you could do that.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: You could definitely do that.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it's funny because my book, how I created it too, was based on workshops I used to do, right?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to do, and I still do them, um, live groundwriting workshops, um, digital and I do them online too, right?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would use so it was almost like my curriculum I had already developed for myself, and then I put it together in a book.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like you can do it vice versa, is think about how can I also teach this in a workshop, you know, because that's also another revenue that you can get.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can include your book as that um that resource, right?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing, is too, is like I know Honore Corter, uh Blackhammer, we have her as a coach.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she, I love what she's always done is she's made the book and then she's made the workbook that goes with the book.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like she does that quite a bit.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for mine, it's mostly like a lot of reading up front, and then it's a workbook more in the back.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I could have done that model as well, like have two different books.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just wanted an all-in-one, you know what I mean?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so there's different things that you can do.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do like the workbook to get it into schools, but that's just because mine's a technical writing.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, if you were writing something about like a history book on like women's suffrage, you're not gonna have that as a workbook, but that could totally be a book that's used in women gender studies classes.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um, those are kind of things to think about too, is you know, something you could do, Kent, is you could look at some different universities that you love in some of the classes and look at what their curriculum is, and then think about like, is this kind of similar in different universities?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Could I write something around this?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that could be a way to market research that could be could be something kind of fun.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know something that's coming out.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I like I said, my book is interesting because there's not a lot of grant writing classes in universities.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: There are more of those coming out, but most my book goes into like business writing classes, health classes, like it kind of is like a you know, it's not like the necessarily the only in the main curriculum in a class.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's mostly kind of like, oh, yeah, we're gonna do this for like part of the class, right?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like nonprofit leadership classes, those kind of things.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you had a book like specifically for let's say nonprofit leadership or an actual class that is very popular, then that could be something to do.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or even if it's not popular, if it's very niche, but if it's like a specific topic that's always taught, right?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: That could be something to focus on too.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: This has been fun.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's been really fun.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've uh taken some notes actually.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I try to do that when I'm doing podcast interviews, but sometimes I can't help it.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's genius.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta write down what they said.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so LinkedIn marketing.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the LinkedIn marketing is definitely something I love to do, even on like I have a webinar coming up for something.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm doing LinkedIn direct mark uh DM marketing there.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fun.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I like getting past the gatekeepers.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to find people because they all put their titles.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a great way to do it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, universities.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So anything that you guys are thinking about writing or that you already have written, if you think, hmm, maybe this could go on a class, you could try to use the LinkedIn strategy to connect directly with the professors, right?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um to get the book in there.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, Holly, how can people touch base with you?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where can they find your book, your website, and um all things related to grant writing?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: They can definitely go to grantwritingandfunding.com and um they can check out the podcast for you podcast listeners.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're at grantwriting and funding.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we keep it all very simple.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're on YouTube, we also have our grant writing and funding channel.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they can definitely um just Google any of that, put it in.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um we will pop up.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have tons of resources, as I mentioned.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are interested in um, hey, maybe grant writings for me, if I want to make some side money or a full-time profession out of it, we definitely have ways to learn how to do the skill of writing grants.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have programs to help you start a freelance grant writing business.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we're very positioned on that because I think we need, well, I know we need more grant writers out there serving nonprofits and businesses.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know it's a great way to change your community and to make a good income.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely that is something that we do provide and we're very passionate about.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love that.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the work that you do is really, really important in the world.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think really until I um got to know you a bit um and a couple other people in the grant writing space, I really had no idea the depth of basically how how much grant writing keeps so much of society alive.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, funds so much of the things that we enjoy um in the world.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for all your good work.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're so welcome.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's my pleasure.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for having me on the podcast.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so fun to be here.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love connecting with writers.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a blast.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ken.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Holly.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, again, as I mentioned in the intro, whether you're really familiar with the grant writing world or whether you're not, I hope this inspires you to not just be more appreciative of what uh nonprofits and and grant writers are doing in the world, but also to consider, if you're an author, consider how you can get your book into colleges and universities as a textbook.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Holly's done it and you can do it as well.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely something I'm gonna be exploring a lot more in the coming months because I've got several books and I also think this could be something I could do with my client books.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: It just now occurred to me that could be uh something really cool to mention to them as well, because a lot of the books that I do for people could be textbooks and courses.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh of course, depending on the the course and the topic and all that.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: But my goodness, that's something really interesting that uh I could begin to integrate into my ghostwriting business.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: You see, my friends, this is why I do podcast interviews because they make me better.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: I not only get to connect with cool people and share those conversations with you, I also learn a ton from them.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And as you can see, right here and now I just got this idea from this interview that can enhance my ghostwriting business.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you never know what kind of cool things are gonna happen when you have awesome people on your podcast.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Many thanks to Holly for meeting a guest on this episode.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can check out her website at grantwritingandfunding.com.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a lot of really great resources there, in addition to a really cool podcast.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: So check it out Grantwriting and Funding.com, as well as her book, The Beginner's Guide to Grant Writing, Tips, Tools, and Templates to Write Winning Grants.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: There will be links to all those in the show notes.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.