Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Unnamed MCC Lieutenant And HIs OIG Interview (11-14) (7/4/26)

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Mega Edition: Unnamed MCC Lieutenant And HIs OIG Interview (11-14) (7/4/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode where dive and right back
• 0:06
  in to the unnamed lieutenant from MCC and his interview
• 0:11
  with the OIG inspectors. Question, speaking of lieutenants, we don't
• 0:17
  need to make you look in this well look it up?
• 0:21
  Answer this is post orders. Question We'll dig into that.
• 0:25
  But you think it's probably in the shoe. Answer, yeah,
• 0:29
  it's around. But to say specific go ten, check on
• 0:32
  and all that, I don't know if it says all that.
• 0:35
  Question all right, it just says you need to conduct
• 0:37
  around and then different people interpret that a different way.
• 0:41
  Answer yeah, yep. Question all right, you said he gets
• 0:45
  cut off by the lieutenant. But then again, if she
• 0:47
  don't get the information, I can see it being missed.
• 0:50
  Question right. Answer because if no one tells me that
• 0:53
  the guy left, he gets cut off by the investigator.
• 0:58
  But if she says that, I know redacted left, I
• 1:01
  know Epstein's by himself, but I didn't know he needed
• 1:04
  a cell mate. Does that make sense to you at all? Answer?
• 1:07
  I mean, unless she didn't read the email, or she's
• 1:10
  not I don't know how it is. Maybe she wasn't aware. Question,
• 1:14
  But I mean the fact that, again, those three things
• 1:17
  that we talked about. I understand you say, like odd
• 1:20
  number or you know that kind of stuff, but the
• 1:22
  fact that there's an email that went out, there's the
• 1:25
  hot list that has his name on it, and the
• 1:28
  fact that he's in the shoe and he's not one
• 1:31
  of those So one of those three she should have
• 1:34
  at least known, right that Epstein was required to have
• 1:36
  a cell mate? Answer yeah, question, So are saying I
• 1:40
  didn't know? Is that to you? Like, of course you knew,
• 1:44
  you've been around for a long time. Whereas he gets
• 1:47
  cut off by the lieutenant. I mean, I'm thinking she
• 1:50
  needs no one told her question no one verbalized it
• 1:55
  to her? Answer yeah, question, But do you think that
• 1:58
  that's an appropriate excuse for a lieutenant saying I didn't
• 2:01
  know if those three things are in place? Answer I'm
• 2:04
  not sure. Question, you're not sure, And I know you
• 2:08
  don't want to be like you know, but like I'm
• 2:10
  just trying to reconcile it too, Like, all right, if
• 2:13
  you're saying you didn't know, how is it that it's
• 2:16
  possible if everybody else, everybody else I talk to seems
• 2:19
  to know. Answer then again, I told you the hot
• 2:23
  list and all that. That's things that like, like the email,
• 2:26
  even though it's out, there is no timeframe on that. Question. Yeah,
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  but the fact that there's still on the hot list,
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  I would think that that would continue because the email
• 2:35
  went out. But then you're also placed on the hot list,
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  and if you're on the hot list, it basically corresponds
• 2:41
  with the email. Correct answer. Yeah, but the hot list
• 2:45
  is for initial so you get locked up, That's when
• 2:48
  I'm checking. I know, I'm checking to see if this
• 2:51
  inmate is on the hot list initially. Question So, only
• 2:55
  when the hot list changes, you're not looking at the
• 2:58
  people that are still on the hot list. Answer Well,
• 3:01
  I'm saying, like, if there's ten on there and the
• 3:03
  guy gets locked up from eleven North, he comes and
• 3:06
  he just got a psych alert, and we make sure
• 3:09
  he gets a bunkie. He got a bunkie, he does
• 3:12
  a month with a bunkie, day thirty one, we're not
• 3:15
  still you know. Question So, in this case, you would
• 3:19
  think even July thirtieth to August ninth, when the guy leaves,
• 3:23
  that could be enough time to say he doesn't need
• 3:25
  a bunkie anymore. Answer I mean, I'm not psychology. Question
• 3:29
  all right, and you don't know if psychology is making
• 3:32
  any more? No one told you answer? No one specified
• 3:36
  the timeframe about how long he was going to be.
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  He gets cut off by the investigator. Did anyone after
• 3:43
  July thirtieth, after receiving that email? Did anyone talk to
• 3:47
  you about Epstein needing a cell mate? Answer? Not that
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  I recall question. No, who would have if he, in
• 3:54
  fact did continue to need a cell mate? Who would
• 3:56
  have told you? Answer? I say, psychology, question psychology, not
• 4:01
  the captain or another lieutenant. It was psychology. Answer psychology.
• 4:06
  They deal with that question. And who in psychology answer
• 4:10
  any of them? Question? Anybody answer anyone? Hey, it's an
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  email question. So just you think that they should have
• 4:19
  continued like once a week or something sending out an email,
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  or how often? Because that wasn't even two weeks after
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  the email went out, so like how soon should they answer?
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  I don't think that a weekly or you know, he
• 4:32
  gets cut off by the investigator. That maybe was ten
• 4:36
  days ago. The lieutenant because I don't know, I don't know.
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  I know they indiscernible to us, so I don't know
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  they're a policy because I know, they're supposed to follow
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  up and then there are steps to it. I don't know,
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  I'm not familiar with that policy. Question. Okay, but you
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  think it was psychology that they were the ones that
• 4:55
  should have made sure, like there's people in the shoe.
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  He gets cut off. They sent out the email to us.
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  Question right, answer, they notified us. Question. But you're saying
• 5:06
  like that could be like a day or two. It
• 5:09
  doesn't mean that two weeks from there it matters. Answer? Yeah,
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  I mean that happens two weeks after that. Yeah, the
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  guy goes to court, he leaves, there's a time and opportunity.
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  I don't think it's nobody's fault. Question. You think it's
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  just he gets cut off by the lieutenant. I just
• 5:27
  don't think it's nobody's fault. Question. Okay. And do you
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  recall this sign or any sign hanging up saying that
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  he needed a cell mate or he needed to be
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  thirty minute rounds on him. Answer? I definitely don't recall
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  that signs about you saying him needed rounds. Question that's
• 5:46
  the rounds answer. No, the one that he gets cut
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  off by the investigator. Another one saying that he was
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  required to have a cell mate. Answer the sign. Question,
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  so we've been told that there was a sign saying
• 6:00
  that Epstein was required to have a cellmate in the
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  Shoe on the desk area. Answer could have been I
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  don't know. I don't be in the desk area. Question
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  so you don't you're not aware, but you know that
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  there was a hot list at least? Answer No, the
• 6:19
  hot list is there. It's been there since I was
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  working there. The hot list is back there, and that's
• 6:24
  about it. Question and do you know if Epstein was
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  on the hot list? Answer no, I'm not sure. Question
• 6:30
  you're not sure? Answer do you have the hot list?
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  Question not with us? No, I don't think do we
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  have it? No, you said you didn't even know. As
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  the absolute tenant, you don't recall specific conversations with anybody
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  that worked in the Shoe on August ninth or tenth.
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  No answer specific conversation. No, it was a regular day
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  question I mean up leading from basically July thirtieth to
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  August ninth. Answer oh about he gets cut off about
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  the need for checking on Epstein or a cellmate or
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  anything to do with Epstein. Answer No, all I know
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  is when he tried at the first time he went
• 7:11
  to suicide Watch, come off and they put him with
• 7:14
  the other guy. No, no, they put him with someone else.
• 7:17
  I don't know. Question. So initially he was with is
• 7:21
  it redacted? Answer? Redacted? He was named question and then
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  he went to suicide Watch, came back on July thirtieth
• 7:31
  like that. So, from July thirtieth to August ninth, as
• 7:34
  obsol lieutenant or otherwise, did you have any conversation with
• 7:37
  anybody working on the shoe in the shoe on August
• 7:41
  ninth or August tenth about Epstein? Answer? Yeah, question, and
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  what were those conversations about? What did they enteil? Answer?
• 7:51
  You know, just hey, leave them with you got to
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  make sure they get down here early. You got legal visits.
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  I know he was asking for a phone phone call.
• 8:00
  This is like basic, you know, regular stuff. Question. What
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  about with regard to making sure they're doing rounds or
• 8:08
  that he has a cell mate? Did you have any
• 8:11
  conversations from the time you got that email on after
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  you got the email, did you call down to the
• 8:16
  shoe and say hey, or visit the shoe and say hey,
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  make sure that he's got he gets cut off by
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  the lieutenant. I can't recall, and I wouldn't do it
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  if I'm not the CEO. Question right, did you take
• 8:32
  any action after receiving that email? Did you talk to
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  anybody about it? Answer? I can't recall. Question that email
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  was Why was that email sent out all the lieutenants? Answer?
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  I told you they send it out every time someone
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  comes off suicide Watch. Question right, so what is the
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  purpose of that? Answer for the doing the job question?
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  So by you getting it and doing your job as
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  like an opos lieutenant or an activities lieuten what is that?
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  Is that something that you're supposed to make other people
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  aware of? Or why do they provide you with that information? Answer?
• 9:09
  I think they're required to question they're required to answer?
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  I think they're required or it could be a reminder, Hey,
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  by the way, this guy's getting released off suicide Watch
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  and placed them with an inmate in chew Question but
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  is it so you can then follow up to make
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  sure that the CEOs know or there must be a
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  reason rather than just for your own information. There's got
• 9:30
  to be usually your provided information for a specific reason.
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  So why are lieutenants provided that information rather than just
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  the shoe lieutenants? Why are everybody else provided it. Answer,
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  I'm not sure, but hey, send an email out to
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  everybody though, question right answer lieutenant's indiscernible question. So that's
• 9:53
  what I'm saying. Well, it's not an all staff email.
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  It's like he gets cut off by the lieutenant. No. Oh,
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  it's a correctional services and correctional system. Right question. Oh,
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  you can tell me here, I'll show you. I thought
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  it was primarily lieutenants. I mean, I think a couple
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  of shoe staff might be on there, but it's the
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  three pages behind it. Answer. Okay, so suicide watch, psych
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  observation update. So you got legal in here, food service
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  case managers, lieutenants, unit team. Question. So by reviewing that,
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  are you able to tell me like, is there a
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  target audience? Answer? No, this is to make everybody aware.
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  Question because it's not an all staff email, though, is it? Answer? No? Question,
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  So who are they sending it to? Like? How did
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  they come up with that group of people to send
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  it to? Answer? It's the same way we do logs.
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  We send it to the same group every night. Question
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  what group is that? Answer? The executive staff, the lieutenants, psychology,
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  then a psycho assistant. Question. So it's all correctional staff though.
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  Answer correctional staff. Yeah, it's not all correctional officers though.
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  Question so is everybody but the officers? Answer you got
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  some officers on here too. Question but you're not sure
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  how they make that decision? Answer No, you got medical lieutenants,
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  Food service, R and D, Legal duty officer. Yeah, I
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  mean I think they would probably do this. It's for
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  your information, like FYI. Question, but do you know I
• 11:30
  understand where the FYI? You're not clear on why they
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  he gets cut off again by the lieutenant indiscernible back
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  to the investigator. Send it to those specific people, okay,
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  but as far as you receiving it. Answer yeah, I
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  can't recall if I spoke to him about it up
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  an internal or not question, and that wouldn't be Like,
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  that's not the way it works. Whereas provide the information
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  to lieutenants and the lieutenants make sure that you provide
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  the information to the CEOs. Answer It depends on your area.
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  Like if I'm shoe lieutenant right now, right so they Hey,
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  this guy's coming in, make sure Okay, make sure you
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  know I'm saying directly to the staff I'm supervising. Question
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  is it the obsolutenant job to make sure the shoe
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  lieutenant does it. Answer uh huh. Question is there any
• 12:23
  oversight there? Does the obsolutenant kind of have oversight over
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  the shoe lieutenants? Answer? I mean sometimes the shoe lieutenant
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  has rank on an opso liutenant question Oh, it depends
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  on if you're nine or eleven? Answer yeah, question all right,
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  So it's not based upon position that you're holding. Like
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  the absolutenant doesn't like the position, doesn't he gets cut
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  off by the lieutenant. I mean, we don't supervise lieutenants.
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  No lieutenant supervises lieutenants. That's why we have a supervisor.
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  Question No, no, And again these are questions just for
• 12:58
  you to try and help us underst and how the
• 13:00
  operation works and did again, not placing blame on you whatsoever.
• 13:05
  It's just trying to figure out how it's supposed to work.
• 13:08
  If they're saying it's you, are you supposed to do
• 13:10
  something with that information? Answer? I mean, but the thing
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  is they followed up until that time came question what
• 13:18
  do you mean? Answer, he had a bunkie up until
• 13:21
  that time. Question right, So they put it out he
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  had a bunkie, and then he didn't, and that's what
• 13:27
  we're trying to figure out. Who was who were aware
• 13:31
  was the communication breakdown? Who should have had that time
• 13:34
  taken action to make sure that he had a bunkie
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  And that's the whole thing that we're looking into. Who
• 13:40
  should have made sure Epstein once redacted was removed and
• 13:44
  people were notified that he was removed? Who should have
• 13:46
  taken action? Answer? Yeah, question, and who, in your opinion
• 13:51
  should have Answer? I don't know, man, that's a tough
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  one question. But like even position wise, not the name names,
• 13:58
  what position should have taken act? Answer? I'm not sure.
• 14:03
  I'm not sure with that one either. Question. Okay, now,
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  I'm just handing you back this lieutenant's log. Answer. Okay,
• 14:13
  all right, We're gonna wrap up right here and in
• 14:15
  the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick
• 14:17
  up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 14:20
  with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 14:24
  What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 14:27
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna get right back
• 14:30
  to the unknown lieutenant and his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. Now,
• 14:38
  I'm just handing you back this lieutenant's log you know
• 14:40
  a few pages back, But did you were you involved
• 14:44
  with that lieutenant's log? Did you make any entries on
• 14:46
  that lieutenant's log on August ninth? Answer? I'm not sure?
• 14:51
  Question yeah, are you able to tell by looking at it? Like,
• 14:54
  is that something that you can tell who made entries?
• 14:57
  Or is it anyone can make an entry? Answer? I
• 15:01
  mean we can all make an entry. Question does it
• 15:03
  show like initials or anything like that after the entry
• 15:06
  was made? Does it show who made that entry? Answer? No?
• 15:10
  Question no, does it show anything with regard to redact
• 15:13
  it on that lieutenant's log? Answer? Yeah, Question what does
• 15:16
  it say? Answer redacted to pre remove? Question and what
• 15:23
  does that mean? Answer? Pre trial remove? Question does that
• 15:27
  mean that he's leaving and he's not coming back? Answer? Yeah?
• 15:31
  Question what time does it say that it depends? A?
• 15:36
  Thirty Eight's the answer? Question? So eight thirty eight? Does
• 15:39
  that mean at eight thirty eight? Pre trial to remove?
• 15:42
  Does that mean that they knew at eight thirty eight
• 15:44
  that he wasn't coming back? Answer? Not necessarily? Question what
• 15:48
  does it mean? Answer? It means that when they put
• 15:50
  the information in question. But I'm saying, like what the
• 15:54
  information says, is that what normally that people are going
• 15:57
  to court, what it says for them is if they're
• 16:00
  coming back? Answer No, Normally they say it's taken off
• 16:04
  the count pre trial is removed. So he was taken
• 16:07
  off the count from seven to six. He was taken
• 16:10
  off that count. Question Are people that go to court
• 16:13
  always taken off the count? Answer? No question. So by
• 16:16
  looking at that, that tells you that he was already
• 16:19
  WAB answer. I mean if they go to Brooklyn sometimes
• 16:24
  they take them off or a different court. But this
• 16:28
  one here, I would say, yeah, taken off of the count.
• 16:30
  And again I'm not sure. I see pre remove proof
• 16:34
  pre remove. Question. But by saying pre remove, does that
• 16:37
  mean it's more likely that he's not coming back? Answer? Yeah.
• 16:41
  Question and who would have made that entry? Answer I'm
• 16:44
  not sure. Question do you know if you made that entry?
• 16:48
  Answer I'm not sure. Question, and there is no way
• 16:51
  to tell answer no question. So I guess the question
• 16:55
  is at approximately eight thirty, did we already know as
• 16:58
  the bop did we already know, Hey, this guy's probably
• 17:03
  not coming back? Answer I'm not sure. Question what does
• 17:07
  it show if he was coming back? Answer That's why
• 17:10
  I say hey question No, no, no, what would show?
• 17:14
  Answer if he was coming back? Question you said, if
• 17:16
  it's a pre remove answer yeah, question if he was
• 17:20
  coming back, what would it show? Would it say pre
• 17:23
  remove or would it say something else? Answer? See, the
• 17:26
  thing is, I mean he gets cut off by the
• 17:29
  investigator like not that he was coming back, Like if
• 17:32
  he's just going to court and you don't know if
• 17:35
  he's coming back or not. If he's going to court.
• 17:38
  Answer yeah, question and he's not, wab what does it
• 17:42
  say there? Answer no question, So it would only say
• 17:46
  that if they thought he wasn't coming back. Answer yeah,
• 17:49
  probably question all right. So then it looks like from
• 17:53
  looking at that at eight thirty eight, we knew he
• 17:57
  was probably not coming back. Answer yeah, question all right?
• 18:01
  And with that knowledge, should have any action or should
• 18:04
  have any notification at least been made of Hey Epstein,
• 18:07
  cell mate is likely not coming back. We need to
• 18:10
  start thinking about a new cell made for the people
• 18:12
  that knew. Answer I'm not sure. You know. The thing
• 18:16
  is when it was see our log is not I
• 18:20
  could go in and see what time someone left and
• 18:22
  input it. That's what we do at the end of
• 18:25
  the shift. Question So at four pm, this could have
• 18:28
  been updated. Is that what you're saying? Not eight thirty answer? Uh,
• 18:33
  probably like three around there. Yeah, it's not the only one.
• 18:37
  Question I'm not saying specifically. I'm just saying, like later
• 18:41
  in the day. Answer, it's not an ongoing thing. Question
• 18:45
  it could have been. But you wouldn't put eight thirty
• 18:49
  eight this is when that happened. If at eight thirty
• 18:51
  eight you didn't know that, would you answer? Well, if
• 18:54
  I don't check it, I wouldn't know that question right.
• 18:58
  I'm not saying you specifically answer no, I mean anybody
• 19:01
  if I go to the computer and it has a
• 19:03
  time and it says that these are the people that left,
• 19:06
  That's what I'm going off of. If I don't check
• 19:08
  it at eight thirty eight, or I won't know question.
• 19:11
  So when you say though, I'm talking about BOP. So
• 19:15
  what I'm saying is like the person who entered that,
• 19:17
  they're entering it as if at a thirty eight it
• 19:20
  was known that he was likely not coming back. Is
• 19:23
  that correct? Answer? It was known to BP question right?
• 19:27
  Answer yeah, question Yeah, I'm not saying you, I'm saying
• 19:31
  BOP answer there's no officers? Yeah. Question yeah? And who
• 19:39
  likely would have entered that like who has access to
• 19:42
  answer that control on lieutenants? Who else? Answer? I think
• 19:45
  that's about it? Question all right, So at that time
• 19:48
  it would have been either you redacted or Control correct answer,
• 19:53
  I'm not so sure question, but I'm just saying, like
• 19:56
  it's you, You're the only two lieutenants on and then
• 19:58
  control right answer again, I'm not sure question. And this
• 20:04
  is all just I didn't even realize this until we're
• 20:07
  now reviewing it. So this isn't I promise you, this
• 20:10
  isn't like a setup. This is just trying to, like,
• 20:13
  you know, figure it out. Answer. I'm not sure because
• 20:16
  what if what if I say, hey, I didn't do
• 20:18
  the log, or what if hey, you forgot the log?
• 20:21
  You have to do this question? What do you mean
• 20:24
  answer if you get an emergency? Hey listen, relieve me,
• 20:28
  I ain't touched the log, all right, whatever, I got you?
• 20:32
  Question right? Right? So you don't So what you're saying
• 20:35
  is you don't know if it was he gets cut off.
• 20:38
  I don't know the investigator, all right, because I mean,
• 20:41
  like I know, like I'm pretty sure redacted knew he
• 20:44
  was going, but he didn't know he wasn't coming. Back.
• 20:47
  Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question, so that's what I
• 20:51
  think that you're He gets cut off. Yeah. But the
• 20:55
  thing about it with this is if I relieve you
• 20:58
  and you didn't do nothing, hey, you know, look out
• 21:01
  for me. I got you next time. Okay. So just
• 21:04
  because it's on day Watch, don't mean day Watch staff
• 21:07
  did it. Question so that that could have been filled
• 21:14
  out by someone other than that was even present at
• 21:17
  eight thirty eight? Answer? Yeah, question, how would they know? Answer?
• 21:22
  They got a computer? Question? What would they see at
• 21:24
  the computer? Answer? It's on century question? So on century
• 21:28
  it would say if he was wab or not? Answer
• 21:32
  all movement for the day? Question? And would that be
• 21:37
  maintained for a long period of time or is that
• 21:39
  constantly refreshed? Answer? It's refreshed until midnight? Question? And then
• 21:44
  you at this point in time, would we be able
• 21:47
  to go back and see what you did? Answer? I
• 21:50
  could come in at ten or eleven at night and
• 21:53
  do a whole twenty four hours of movement. Question All right,
• 21:57
  so you don't know answer, I don't know who did this?
• 22:00
  Was it day Watch or what? Question? And there is
• 22:03
  no way to tell by looking at it? Answer? No question?
• 22:06
  Is there in century any way to tell who entered it? Answer,
• 22:10
  we don't do the centry. We just take the information
• 22:13
  off of century. Question Oh, well, who would have put
• 22:17
  it in centry? Answer R and D. Question Okay, So
• 22:21
  R and D could have put it in centry, and
• 22:23
  then whomever, either one of the lieutenants or control could
• 22:27
  have typed it in answer yeah, question okay answer or
• 22:30
  yeah somebody question all right, So with this information at
• 22:34
  eight thirty eight, would it have been if at eight
• 22:37
  thirty eight we knew that and when I say, we
• 22:39
  bop or whomever R and D Control knew that he
• 22:43
  was gone and not likely coming back. Who should have
• 22:46
  started making those notifications that Epstein was without a cell mate?
• 22:50
  Is that shoe staff? Is it lieutenants? Answer? You said
• 22:55
  they known at this time? Question Yeah, so at eight
• 22:59
  thirty eight he's going wab He leaves with a brown
• 23:02
  paper bag and he's got stuff with him. He knows
• 23:05
  he's not coming back. Redacted as saying I'm out, I'm
• 23:08
  not coming back. Who should have at that point should
• 23:12
  have been the shoe staff that started making notifications, Hey,
• 23:16
  we know epstein cell mate's gone. We need to start
• 23:18
  making some rounds. Is that you know, the ops or
• 23:21
  the activities lieutenant should have said, hey, he's gone, we've
• 23:25
  got to notify the captain. Answer. I mean the thing
• 23:28
  of it is, I don't even know who the dude
• 23:31
  is question right answer? So for one, a regular staff
• 23:36
  wouldn't even know who Bunky is. Question and that's where
• 23:40
  my question. Should the shoe have started saying, like this is, hey,
• 23:45
  Ops and activities lieutenant, this redacted guy is Epstein cell mate.
• 23:49
  We need to start thinking about putting a cell mate
• 23:51
  and getting a new cell mate assigned. Answer. That's again
• 23:55
  if they definitely knew he wasn't coming back, just because
• 23:58
  this like you can you get a pre remove and
• 24:01
  then at four point fifty you get pre removed to
• 24:03
  such and such question. Okay, so this is why redacted's
• 24:08
  memo that said possibly not coming back, will likely need
• 24:11
  a new cell mate. Is that why that's the appropriate response? Answer? Possibly?
• 24:15
  Probably because you can never tell. Question? And is that
• 24:20
  why you're saying that they would have written possibly because
• 24:23
  at this point it looks like it's likely but it's
• 24:26
  not definite. Answer. Yeah, I could see him, could see
• 24:31
  that happening, because, like you said, this happens all the time.
• 24:34
  Question all right, because again it says that inmate redacted
• 24:38
  was going WAB and possibly may not return. Also that
• 24:42
  inmate Epstein will be needing a cell mate upon arrival
• 24:44
  from his attorney visit. So looks like they knew the
• 24:48
  shoe should have told you activities lieutenant or redacted? Ops
• 24:52
  lieutenant answer, I mean he gets cut off by the investigator.
• 24:57
  I'm not saying that he did, or that you know
• 24:59
  you already said you didn't answer. I'm not even saying
• 25:03
  that he should have. Question Oh, answer, I don't know.
• 25:08
  Question Okay, answer if he was notified and he said
• 25:11
  it could be again, I told you eight. That's indiscernible.
• 25:15
  You guys come in all the time from court. Question. Yeah,
• 25:20
  but I'm just saying, with the fact that Epstein everybody
• 25:23
  knows he needs a cell mate, should have they notified
• 25:26
  up the chain of command at this point? Answer? What
• 25:29
  if he came back at eight? Question? But what I'm
• 25:32
  saying is, like the fact that they know it's possible
• 25:35
  and likely, should they have started making notifications, Being that
• 25:39
  you were the ops lieutenant for a long time. You
• 25:41
  were a lieutenant now it seems for a number of
• 25:43
  years in your expert opinion as a lieutenant, should these
• 25:47
  guys have started making some notifications? Answer, that's hard to say,
• 25:51
  because if you pass on this information, possibly the guy
• 25:54
  shows up at eight what notification I need to make? Question? Okay,
• 25:59
  so you were the activities lieutenant and redacted was the
• 26:02
  activities lieutenant. When that thing says eight thirty eight, do
• 26:07
  you believe as the person who was you know, the
• 26:09
  ops and activities lieutenant, those two people, do you believe
• 26:14
  at that time that these notifications should have been made
• 26:16
  to you? Would have you? Do you believe you should
• 26:20
  have been made aware? Answer at a thirty question or
• 26:25
  any time between eight thirty and I guess one fifty
• 26:27
  during your shift? If your shift ended at two or four,
• 26:31
  we don't know. Answer, I'm not sure. Because this you
• 26:34
  see pre removal all the time. They come back. Question okay, answer,
• 26:40
  That's why I could see him saying, hey, this guy
• 26:42
  might not be coming back, but it's a possibility he can. Question.
• 26:47
  So then he gets cut off by the lieutenant, So
• 26:51
  make notifications. Now, the investigator picks back up. If he
• 26:55
  did it, hit this way, if redacted told the oncoming
• 26:57
  staff this is what's up, do you think he took
• 27:00
  appropriate action. Answer who question redacted if he in fact
• 27:06
  passed on that information saying, Hey, guys, you know he's saying.
• 27:10
  He said, it's the day of redacted and redacted right
• 27:14
  as he's gone. That's Epstein's cell mate. He's going to
• 27:18
  like if he doesn't come back, definitely he's going to
• 27:20
  need a cell mat. Answer he said that to who
• 27:23
  you saying question, Well, this is what the memo says.
• 27:27
  It says that again. On Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen,
• 27:30
  at approximately one fifty pm, I redacted passed on to
• 27:34
  the oncoming staff member Officer redacted and Presidentship staff redacted
• 27:38
  and Officer redacted that inmate redacted was going WAB and
• 27:43
  possibly may not return. Also that inmate Epstein will be
• 27:47
  needing a cell mate upon arrival from his attorney visit. Answer. Okay,
• 27:52
  so redacted and redacted was on day watch. Question I
• 27:56
  don't know. It sounds like what he says is that
• 27:58
  he totl redacted and these guys were also present. Answer. So,
• 28:04
  in my expert opinion at that time, he did the
• 28:07
  right thing. Question all right, So by this he shouldn't
• 28:10
  have passed it up to the ops and activity as lieutenant,
• 28:13
  he should have kept it in house until it was definite. Answer,
• 28:17
  it's premature. Yeah, question okay, because that would have been
• 28:21
  premature prior to this time. Answer Yeah, because, like I
• 28:24
  said at the time, if he came back, then oh,
• 28:27
  I thought you said, we need to know to change
• 28:30
  him out or we start. Yeah. Question and even keeping
• 28:34
  in mind that both redacted or however you pronounce his name,
• 28:40
  answer well, after that, I don't think he was bunked
• 28:42
  with him after that question him and no. No, what
• 28:45
  I'm saying is both of his previous inmates Epstein. I'm
• 28:48
  saying redacted and redacted they were both vetted from the
• 28:51
  highest of levels. Even with that knowledge, you think that
• 28:54
  they should have still waited. They were vetted by the captain,
• 28:58
  the warden, and the regional director. Answer yeah, question, so
• 29:03
  obviously it took some doing with that knowledge, Do you
• 29:05
  think that they should have told you or no, you
• 29:08
  still think it's premature. Answer at one fifty question, Well,
• 29:12
  I mean not at one fifty answer, I mean, I
• 29:16
  don't know. Question. It looks like a thirty eight answer.
• 29:19
  Then again, I told you about that. If I don't
• 29:22
  check for it, I don't know. Question I'm not saying.
• 29:25
  I'm not saying you checking for him, you already. But
• 29:28
  what I'm saying like, it appears that looking at this,
• 29:31
  it appears that they knew he was WAB since a
• 29:34
  thirty eight right answer? Yeah, question. So I'm saying, between
• 29:38
  a thirty eight and whatever the end of the shift is,
• 29:41
  do you believe someone should have said something to you? Answer?
• 29:45
  I'm not sure, because then again, when you look at
• 29:47
  another log where it'll say pre removed to Za, you
• 29:51
  understand question right, because he didn't. Actually he gets cut
• 29:55
  off by the lieutenant. So that's why I could see
• 29:57
  him saying, Hey, I'll let y'all know, passing on to you,
• 30:01
  and you because you're going to be here, possibly, I'm
• 30:05
  giving you the heads up question. So I guess and
• 30:07
  I understood you answer the question. But what I said was,
• 30:10
  considering the fact that it takes at least almost an
• 30:13
  entire day to vet who was even going to be
• 30:16
  placed with him, do you think that they should have
• 30:18
  started moving his up the chain of command knowing that
• 30:21
  this guy, no inmate, just a regular inmate, shouldn't be
• 30:25
  placed with this guy. He needs to be vetted. It's
• 30:28
  vetted all the way up to the regional director's level.
• 30:31
  Answer yeah, I'm not sure on that one. Question. Yeah, sure,
• 30:34
  all right, not sure. So is there anything else it
• 30:36
  says with redacted? Does it say when you actually he
• 30:40
  gets cut off by the lieutenant. It just says eight
• 30:42
  thirty eight pre removed. That means taken off the count.
• 30:45
  Now if he comes back, it'll say pre removed to
• 30:48
  za and to kind of changes. Question. So because it
• 30:52
  says pre removed, there's no reason to note when they
• 30:55
  were definitively told he wasn't coming back. Answer, yeah, this
• 31:00
  just means he went to court. Right, so you have
• 31:03
  three going out, meaning you're off on count. It could
• 31:07
  have been in the Eastern district whatever. If you would
• 31:10
  come back, they would put you back on question but
• 31:14
  only if you come back, otherwise they won't name you again. Answer,
• 31:20
  so this is definite? I mean no, this is not definite.
• 31:24
  That means he's possibly he could come back, just because
• 31:27
  it says pre removed, he'll come back. Question. But what
• 31:31
  I'm saying is the fact that he didn't come back,
• 31:33
  should have there been another note saying he is now
• 31:35
  definitively off our books. Answer No, you just don't see it.
• 31:39
  On the they just don't see it. Question. So just
• 31:43
  by him not being back on it, it just means, hey,
• 31:46
  refer back to that thing where it said that he
• 31:50
  was possibly not coming back. Answer yep. Question there should
• 31:53
  not be any more notes saying like he's gone. Answer no,
• 31:58
  only think because if I'm evening one much, the only
• 32:00
  thing I'm checking is the pre removed to the institution.
• 32:04
  So these three they did they come back today or
• 32:07
  are they off to the count? So there wouldn't be
• 32:09
  no follow up question, So there's no additional there should
• 32:13
  have been. There's not another line item that shouldn't be
• 32:16
  in there saying that redacted wasn't one of the individuals
• 32:19
  that came back. Answer no, because no question. So there's
• 32:23
  a pre removed, but there's no line for removed. Answer no,
• 32:28
  pre removed means off the count, he's out the building. Question. Okay,
• 32:33
  so that's the only notification that should have been made.
• 32:35
  Should have been made on the lieutenant's log. Answer yeah,
• 32:38
  all right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right here and
• 32:40
  in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
• 32:42
  pick up where we left off. All the information that
• 32:45
  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 32:48
  What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 32:52
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna dive right back
• 32:55
  in to the unnamed lieutenant and his interview with the
• 33:00
  inspectors about the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Question all right,
• 33:05
  and do you mind just putting it like you did
• 33:07
  the last time, just a little start next to it. Answer.
• 33:11
  I've just got one question, real quick question. Yes, please
• 33:14
  do answer? This is the four PM count? Right? Answer yep?
• 33:20
  This outcount that you see right here? Answer for ZD.
• 33:26
  Question for Za sorry, answer for Za. Question Za, see
• 33:31
  that one? Is that one? Who is that one for?
• 33:34
  Is that for redacted? Answer? Out count? Question who normally
• 33:38
  gets marked off on the E one? That's out count?
• 33:43
  It means he's still in the facility or the inmates
• 33:46
  had to leave the facility. Answer you never usually see
• 33:51
  an outcount for that one. Though, I don't know what
• 33:53
  assignment this is. Question say that again. Answer, I'm not
• 33:57
  sure what this assignment is. You don't know what account? Okay?
• 34:03
  Answer it could have been some type of he gets
• 34:05
  cut off by the investigator. I was just trying to
• 34:08
  figure out if they were still counting him as, hey,
• 34:10
  there's a possibility of him coming back. They've left him
• 34:14
  as an outcount, and eventually after evening they removed them
• 34:17
  from the outcount. Answer no, so the outcount. Oh, I
• 34:22
  know what you're saying. Now, you're trying to say, you mean,
• 34:25
  who is the one that they have at the attorney conference.
• 34:28
  Answer see, we know that question. Yeah, that's the same thing. Answer,
• 34:34
  that's the same thing. Question. Yeah. All the numbers is
• 34:38
  repeats for the outcounts. Question so you hear what he's saying.
• 34:42
  Answer yeah, okay. Question ten one two that equals thirteen
• 34:48
  one point one three plus one plus thirteen two equals nineteen.
• 34:53
  Answer got it? So at this point redacted is completely
• 34:57
  off of the count. Answer yeah, fo yeah, he was
• 35:02
  off at this time. Question okay, answer, but the thing
• 35:07
  is he could come back. Question got it? Answer? That's
• 35:11
  why I'm saying. I know you're saying that, hey, he
• 35:13
  should have I can't say that. Question So you're not
• 35:17
  like upset at the fact like that he didn't notify
• 35:20
  you and then you could have notified the captain. You
• 35:23
  don't think that would have been what he should have done. Answer?
• 35:26
  I mean, yeah, that's definitely helpful and it would have
• 35:29
  been appreciated. But to say that, you know, he's in
• 35:32
  the wrong for not doing it and stuff like that.
• 35:34
  I can't say that. Question okay, And he didn't notify you?
• 35:38
  Answer no, not that I recall question okay, all right,
• 35:42
  So we're going to move on from that. You can
• 35:44
  give that back or you can hold on to it,
• 35:46
  whatever you want to do. Do you know about any
• 35:49
  cameras in the mcc shoe that were not working on
• 35:52
  August ninth or tenth? Answer no, that they weren't working.
• 35:57
  Question yeah, answer no. Question have you did you ever
• 36:01
  were you made aware of that after August ninth? Any
• 36:04
  cameras were not working? Answer I heard something about it
• 36:09
  when they was like checking videos and stuff. Question what
• 36:12
  did you hear about it? Answer that some of them
• 36:14
  was showing grainy question and who would have been responsible
• 36:19
  for making sure the cameras were working? Answer facilities? Question
• 36:25
  who from facility should we speak with? Answer I'm not sure.
• 36:28
  Question who worked in facilities? Answer? Whoever? They manager is?
• 36:33
  Facilities manager? Question do you know who that person was
• 36:37
  back in August? Answer was probably vacant. Question vacant was
• 36:43
  there or redacted? Answer? Yeah, redacted? He was there. Question
• 36:47
  did he send Was he a supervisor? Answer He's not
• 36:51
  a supervisor. He's a contact though he's a contech. Question
• 36:56
  would he be somebody that would be good to speak
• 36:58
  with on that? Answer? Yeah, yeah, probably? Question all right,
• 37:01
  were you aware though that prior to that time that
• 37:04
  they weren't working? Answer the cameras? No question? No? Okay?
• 37:09
  Who is VOP employee redacted? Answer? I know him? Question
• 37:14
  do you know what his position was in August of
• 37:16
  twenty nineteen? Answer he would have been a manager? Question
• 37:21
  what does that role entail? What are his duties and responsibilities? Answer?
• 37:27
  He's a supervisor of a unit team? Question what unit team?
• 37:31
  At the time? Do you know? Answer? I'm not sure.
• 37:34
  Question did you have any communication with regard to Epstein
• 37:38
  with redacted? Answer like what? Question just with them being
• 37:42
  housed within the shoe? Answer I probably talked to him
• 37:45
  about something, but I don't recall nothing specific. Question okay,
• 37:50
  answer no communication like that, I don't know. Question did
• 37:54
  you ever provide him with any kind of special instruction
• 37:57
  with regard to Epstein? Answer not that I recall. Question no,
• 38:01
  what about? Did you ever communicate with redacted regarding rounds
• 38:05
  being conducted in the shoe or Epstein needing a cell mate?
• 38:08
  Answer not that I recall. Question are you aware that
• 38:12
  redacted allowed Epstein to make a telephone call on the
• 38:15
  evening of August ninth, twenty nineteen. Answer, I think I
• 38:20
  heard something about that. I don't know was it redacted? Though,
• 38:25
  I just heard something. I think he made a phone call.
• 38:28
  Question all right, so do you know anything about Redacted
• 38:30
  involved with the phone call? Answer? No question? All right.
• 38:34
  What's your understanding of the phone call that took place
• 38:37
  on August ninth with Epstein's telephone call? Answer it was
• 38:40
  a regular phone call. Question did you hear that it
• 38:43
  was made in the shower area? Answer? No question. Have
• 38:47
  you ever heard of telephone calls being made in the
• 38:50
  shower area? Answer in the shower area? Yeah. Question and
• 38:55
  what's the purpose of that? Answer the court can't read.
• 39:00
  And I'll say, we got them out taking a shower. Hey,
• 39:02
  I'm going to give you a phone right now while
• 39:04
  on while you're right there. I don't have to pull
• 39:07
  you out. And it's like a time consuming method. Question
• 39:11
  do you know if the line that would have been
• 39:13
  using in that area would be a recorded line or
• 39:16
  a legal line? Answer? It's two, there's two. Question Okay, So,
• 39:20
  would there be any reason to provide someone with a
• 39:22
  legal line that's not recorded? Answer no, would there be
• 39:26
  a reason? Answer a question? Yeah, answer no question. So
• 39:32
  why if they provided Epstein a phone call in the
• 39:34
  shower area for a legal line? Would that be wrong? Answer?
• 39:38
  You mean an unmonitored line? Question? Yeah? Answer if they
• 39:42
  gave them an unmonitored line answer question right, answer yeah,
• 39:48
  unless they didn't know which one it is. Question And
• 39:51
  if they did not know that, they gave him a
• 39:53
  legal line that was an unmonitored line. Should someone have
• 39:57
  monitored that call? Answer you can't, though you say it
• 40:00
  was unmonitored. Question No, I mean like sit there and
• 40:04
  listen to the call. Answer, Oh, you mean like I
• 40:07
  mean they do that all the time. I think they could,
• 40:10
  you know, they let the call. They're legal attorneys, and yeah,
• 40:12
  they do that. Question Okay, And if they didn't do
• 40:16
  that answer I don't know if it's a violation, but
• 40:19
  it's not common. Question. Yeah. So let's say if the
• 40:23
  captain even authorized it, Yeah, give him his phone call,
• 40:26
  just make sure you monitor and log it. Answer no, question,
• 40:30
  they didn't monitor it, they didn't log it. Would that
• 40:33
  be a problem. Answer the captain telling me yeah. Question
• 40:37
  all right, did you ever hear of the practice taking
• 40:40
  place in the past? Answer unmonitored calls? Question yeah, or
• 40:44
  like letting somebody in the shoe have a phone call
• 40:47
  on that unmonitored line, walking away, letting the person talk.
• 40:51
  Answer no, Now from an officer's standpoint, question yeah, answer
• 40:57
  no question you never seen that before or heard of that?
• 41:00
  Answer officers no question. Okay. What's the policy for inmates
• 41:05
  making calls from the shoe? Answer? I don't know. They
• 41:08
  could get they got to come. There's an indiscernible in
• 41:12
  shoe that everyone has a line, a compassionate phone line,
• 41:15
  and they get with the captain or the chaplain excuse me,
• 41:18
  and they can make a phone call, like say they
• 41:20
  might you only get one phone call every thirty days.
• 41:23
  So chaplain comes in, Hey, give this guy a call.
• 41:26
  They come up, they bring him up, they let him
• 41:28
  use the compassionate phone. Question and when you say, what's
• 41:34
  a compassionate phone answer yeah, it's like something they have,
• 41:37
  you know, a death in the family or something like that.
• 41:40
  Question But is that a monitored call? Answer? I don't
• 41:43
  think so, but I mean staff would stay with them.
• 41:46
  It's monitored. Yeah, it's monitored. Question so anybody in the staff,
• 41:50
  it's either a monitored line or staff is with them.
• 41:53
  Is that correct answer? If it's monitored in the shoe
• 41:57
  question yeah answer yeahes So when I say monitored, I
• 42:02
  mean it's either a recorded line or you're right there.
• 42:05
  And what are the reasons why you would give him
• 42:08
  an unrecorded line or a non recorded line? Answer I
• 42:12
  mean probably like an emergency or something. Definitely. Yeah. So
• 42:17
  like the chaplain, ain't the hey you know, okay? Question?
• 42:21
  But if it was in the shower area, they would
• 42:23
  actually have the ability to do either a recorded line
• 42:26
  or a non recorded line. Answer. Yeah, question they're right
• 42:30
  next to each other. Answer it's a jack yeah. Question yeah, okay.
• 42:34
  What about what's the MCC policy on conducting searches in
• 42:37
  the shoe cell searches? Answer you have to search the cell.
• 42:42
  Question do you know about them not conducting cell searches?
• 42:46
  Answer staff not conducting question yeah? Answer like what question?
• 42:52
  Like for instance, here's cell search from nine South or
• 42:55
  the Shoe on August ninth. It's one cell search. It
• 42:58
  was conducted at twelve thirty six pm during the day
• 43:01
  by redacted. It's the only cell search that was conducted
• 43:04
  on August ninth? Is that weird for you that you
• 43:09
  would see only one search conducted on a day? Answer meh.
• 43:13
  Question Are they supposed to conduct more than one cell search? Answer? Yeah? Question?
• 43:18
  How many are they supposed to conduct? Answer five? Question?
• 43:23
  And is it at least five on night watch and
• 43:25
  during the day watch? Answer per shift? Question? What's that answer?
• 43:30
  Per shift? Question? Per shift, everyone's supposed to do five?
• 43:35
  Answer yeah. Question is that including the morning watch? Answer
• 43:39
  no question, So day watch he gets cut off by
• 43:43
  the lieutenant do area searches or morning watch? Question? So
• 43:47
  your understanding is that on day watch and on night
• 43:49
  watch it's supposed to be five per shift? Answer? Yeah? Question?
• 43:54
  And are you aware if they weren't doing that? Answer
• 43:58
  question or is it that you were saying before an
• 44:02
  abnormal day? Answer? I mean, I don't know. I wasn't
• 44:05
  aware that they wasn't doing it. No question, okay. And
• 44:08
  is there any responsibility for the ops or activity as
• 44:11
  lieutenant overseeing to make sure that these cell searches are
• 44:14
  being conducted? Answer? Yeah, question there is? Answer yeah. Question
• 44:19
  And what is that responsibility? Answer? I mean pretty much
• 44:23
  we check every thirty days they've got to be done.
• 44:25
  Every cell is supposed to be searched every thirty days. Question,
• 44:30
  every cell in there is supposed to be searched every
• 44:33
  thirty days. Answer the whole unit question Okay, and that's
• 44:36
  where the Ops lieutenant and Activities lieutenant come in. Answer
• 44:42
  any lieutenant question, any lieutenant answer. It's everybody's responsibility question.
• 44:47
  So I guess what I'm asking is on August ninth,
• 44:50
  there is no shoe lieutenant in there, as the activity
• 44:53
  is lieutenant or the Ops lieutenant on any of the watches.
• 44:56
  Should have they been like making sure that they were
• 44:59
  doing their job? Answer I'm not sure. Question, you're not sure? Answer? Yeah,
• 45:04
  question because I mean that's in truscope. It's like you're
• 45:07
  not checking truscope at the time. He gets cut off
• 45:09
  by the investigator. Yeah, yeah, the lieutenant picks it back up.
• 45:13
  And on top of that, I think the cells the
• 45:15
  cameras probably show the cells being checked. I'm quite sure
• 45:18
  they just didn't log them. Question all right, so you
• 45:21
  think that they're actually searching them? Answer they got to
• 45:25
  question and not locking it. Answer you got to, Hey,
• 45:29
  get out, you're doing a feed and cuff up showers.
• 45:32
  You come out, and yeah, so they not locked. Question
• 45:36
  but would it be surprising to you to hear that
• 45:38
  there was a lot of extra linens and clothing and
• 45:41
  all that kind of stuff in the shoe? Answer? That's
• 45:44
  not surprising. Question. So if they're doing cell searches, wouldn't
• 45:47
  they take that stuff out and keep them with the
• 45:50
  He gets cut off by the lieutenant. I suppose, oh yeah.
• 45:54
  Question all right, but you believe that they were actually
• 45:57
  conducting the cell searches. Answer I'm quite sure more than
• 46:00
  one was conducted. Question Okay, so you think it was
• 46:04
  just this is all that they logged, but they probably
• 46:07
  did more. Answer? Yeah, all right, folks, we're gonna wrap
• 46:10
  up right here, and in the next episode dealing with
• 46:12
  the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
• 46:15
  All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 46:18
  found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 46:21
  to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 46:25
  we're diving right back in to the interview with the
• 46:29
  unnamed lieutenant from mcc and the OIG inspectors. Question, Okay,
• 46:36
  all right, do you know anything about Epstein being authorized
• 46:39
  to have pills in his cell? In the shoe? Answer pillows.
• 46:43
  Question no pills answer nah? Question pills like medication? Answer no.
• 46:50
  Question Should have he been allowed medication in his cell? Answer?
• 46:54
  I mean inmates have medication? Question they do? Answer yeah.
• 46:59
  Question so in the shoe they're allowed to have medication?
• 47:01
  Answer yeah. Question is there ever a problem with like
• 47:05
  o ding or anything like that? Answer? I mean if
• 47:08
  it's depending on the medication medical gives it to them.
• 47:12
  Question okay? Answer some have self carrying medicines. Question all right,
• 47:17
  and so that and that's not abnormal for them to
• 47:19
  have their own pill bottles and things like that in
• 47:22
  the shoe. Answer no. Question What can an inmate having
• 47:26
  their selling the shoe? Answer t shirt, boxers, wash claws,
• 47:30
  a towel, depending on what the season. Two blankets two sheets?
• 47:34
  Question so they can have two blankets and two sheets?
• 47:38
  Answer dependent on the weather? Question okay? Answer and how
• 47:42
  much is available? Question? What about August? How many blankets
• 47:46
  and sheets could have they had? Answer? How many could
• 47:49
  they have? Had? Question? Or are they allowed to have had? Answer?
• 47:54
  It depends some of them. It depends if they say, hey,
• 47:58
  let me keep it too too, let them keep it?
• 48:03
  Question okay? Answer, I say, hey, you need to you
• 48:06
  know they go down to one question would it never
• 48:09
  be authorized to have more than two? Each? Answer? How many?
• 48:13
  Like an extra blanket or something? Answer? Yeah, like if
• 48:16
  three blankets or four blankets? Answer? I don't know about four,
• 48:22
  but an extra blanket. I heard that especially in the
• 48:25
  winter time depending on the cells. Question what about in august?
• 48:29
  Answer an extra blanket? Question or extra linen? Answer? No?
• 48:34
  Question yeah, what about extra clothing? Answer? I mean it
• 48:37
  wouldn't be authorized, but they could get it. Question how
• 48:41
  would they get it? Answer? They could get it. They
• 48:43
  could fish it themselves inmates. Question you mean they can
• 48:46
  like throw a cord over like he gets cut off
• 48:50
  by the lieutenant. Yeah. Question all right, And would that
• 48:54
  be caught on the cell search if they were being
• 48:56
  conducted though? Answer not all the time? Question no answer,
• 49:00
  no question. And how would they miss that? Answer? What
• 49:05
  if they don't search the cell today? Question No, I'm
• 49:08
  saying during the cell searches, like if they search the cell,
• 49:12
  question if they see the fishing line? Yeah? Question no, no,
• 49:15
  if they see a fishing line. But if the cell
• 49:18
  is being searched, he gets cut off by the lieutenant
• 49:21
  and it has excessive linen? Question and it has would
• 49:25
  they take it at that point. Answer yeah, usually they
• 49:28
  take it. Question okay, anything else they're allowed to have
• 49:33
  answer books? Food, yeah, question all right. Do you know
• 49:36
  if Epstein was given any special privileges to have extra
• 49:39
  clothing or extra linen? Answer no? Question No, do you
• 49:44
  know if he had extra clothing or extra linen? Answer no?
• 49:48
  Question Who is making sure that Epstein had the correct
• 49:50
  amount of clothing and linen's answer not sure? Question would
• 49:54
  it be like the shoe staff or the lieutenant or
• 49:56
  all of the above the shoe lieutenant answer I'm not sure.
• 50:00
  Question working in the shoe though, or previously you don't
• 50:03
  know who would he gets cut off by the lieutenant?
• 50:08
  Who is monitoring it? I mean the inspector jumps in,
• 50:12
  like who would be who's responsible? Not let sounds like
• 50:15
  looks like no one was monitoring it, But who was
• 50:19
  actually responsible to make sure him and these guys aren't
• 50:22
  supposed to have that many that much clothing or linen?
• 50:25
  Answer I'm not sure, because when we used to do linen,
• 50:28
  you give them three, I give you three. That's how
• 50:31
  we used to monitor it. Question Yes, it's supposed to
• 50:35
  be like a one for one exchange. Answer yeah, so
• 50:38
  I don't know who's responsible to keep an eye on
• 50:40
  his things, though, I uh gets cut off. Typically who
• 50:44
  provides the inmates with their linens? The investigator asks, answer staff,
• 50:50
  question do lieutenants ever do that? Answer? No, not really.
• 50:54
  Question so it would be the staff that's responsible. Then
• 50:57
  answer yeah, That's why I say indiscernible responsibility. I guess.
• 51:01
  Then question Okay, does the shoe lieutenant ever do it? Answer?
• 51:05
  I mean it could, I could if I wanted to.
• 51:09
  Question yeah, but typically would it be the shoe staff?
• 51:12
  Answer yeah, question okay, any idea how Epstein's interactions were
• 51:16
  with other inmates? Did he ever have interactions with other inmates? Really? Answer?
• 51:21
  I don't know. I know when he was first got there,
• 51:24
  he told me some guy he was nervous because his
• 51:26
  face was on the TV and guys might try to
• 51:29
  intimidate him. That's about it, though, Question that was something
• 51:32
  he Epstein specifically told you? Answer he told the officer,
• 51:37
  and then the officer told me he said, hey, I
• 51:39
  didn't know who he was. I was like, all right,
• 51:41
  let me look into it. And then they moved them.
• 51:45
  Question where was he? Answer? He was on his first
• 51:48
  unit I think was eleven North question, so he was
• 51:51
  in general population? Answer when he first got here? Yeah.
• 51:56
  Question all right, so people that tell us that he
• 51:59
  was in the shoe the entire time or incorrect? Answer
• 52:02
  when he first got through he was in general population.
• 52:05
  Question And for how long was he in general pop? Answer?
• 52:09
  Say about a day or two? Question are you the
• 52:12
  one that actually moved him into the shoe? Answer? No? Question?
• 52:15
  Who did that? Answer? I don't know. Question all right,
• 52:18
  but an officer reported it to you and then you
• 52:21
  he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, I know
• 52:24
  he was in general population. Question And what did you
• 52:29
  do with the information when that was told? Answer? What question?
• 52:33
  You said? An officer said he's worried about safety? Answer yeah,
• 52:36
  I spoke to him. Question you spoke to Epstein? Answer?
• 52:40
  I wanted to know. I said what was going on?
• 52:42
  I said, all right, we're going to look into this.
• 52:45
  And then they moved them. Question okay, answer yeah. Question
• 52:49
  But I guess my question was did you report that
• 52:52
  information to someone? And then it was a person? Answer
• 52:56
  I don't remember. I know I passed it on. I said, hey,
• 52:59
  this guy, I think profile question okay, answer, look into it.
• 53:04
  I think by the captain or someone got together and
• 53:06
  they moved him put him in a place in the shoe.
• 53:10
  Question Okay, and when was the last time you interacted
• 53:13
  with Epstein? Answer? I can't recall. Question did you have
• 53:17
  any interaction with him on August ninth? Answer? I could have.
• 53:20
  I don't know. He's right there on the floor, so
• 53:23
  I could have. Question but you don't know. So again,
• 53:27
  dude dies the next day. You can't remember if the
• 53:30
  day before you talked with this guy when it's like
• 53:32
  the biggest case ever. Answer Yeah, question you don't remember? Answer,
• 53:38
  uh huh, because I brung them up to the shoe
• 53:40
  a few times, but I don't know if I did
• 53:41
  that day. Question. I'm just saying that kind of sparks
• 53:44
  a little suspicion. Answer, I know what you're saying. Question,
• 53:49
  it's like if it's like you can't even remember the
• 53:51
  last if you talk to him on that day the
• 53:53
  day before. Answer, I mean it's a big case. I
• 53:56
  get that, but I mean, you know, I have a job,
• 53:59
  like you know. Question. Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying
• 54:02
  that's going to create a little bit he gets cut
• 54:05
  off by the lieutenant. Yeah, but I can't remember if
• 54:07
  I spoke to that dude that day. Question do you
• 54:09
  remember when the last time you saw him? Answer no,
• 54:13
  I'm probably assuming that day if he was an attorney conference.
• 54:17
  Question is that because you would have visited attorney conference? Answer? Yeah,
• 54:22
  the elevator is right there on the third floor here,
• 54:25
  attorney conference. Is there? If I wait right here in
• 54:27
  the elevator, I see him, he's in the same room
• 54:29
  every day. Question but you can't remember if you actually
• 54:32
  spoke with him on that day? Answer no. Question would
• 54:37
  you typically speak with him when he was in the
• 54:39
  attorney conference? Answer? The only time I used to speak
• 54:42
  with him is if to say, hey, you can bring this,
• 54:45
  Hey you going to shoe? Can you take him up?
• 54:48
  All right? Come on? Question? All right now? The other
• 54:53
  investigator jumps in. Can I ask a question on that question? Yeah?
• 54:57
  Please do question in case. I mean, I know you
• 55:01
  said that you don't remember, but that's his last day,
• 55:04
  that's the last time you saw him. Do you remember
• 55:07
  who he was with that day? Answer his lawyers? Question?
• 55:10
  Do you remember his demeanor? Answer? No? Question Was he upset?
• 55:15
  Was he yelling? Did he complain about anything? Answer? He
• 55:18
  used to sleep a lot, That's all I know. Sometimes
• 55:21
  you see him in there, he's just lying on the table.
• 55:24
  His lawyer is right there. Question while he's with his attorneys?
• 55:27
  Answer he was there. He used to be there from
• 55:30
  eight in the morning all day to a watch and
• 55:34
  evening watch. Question around what time would he show up there?
• 55:37
  Answer early, he'd be the first one there. Question And
• 55:40
  what time would that be? Answer eight to eight thirty? Question?
• 55:45
  And then what time would he typically go back to
• 55:47
  the shoe? Answer before or attorney conference over at eight?
• 55:51
  So about eight? Question so basically eight am to eight pm?
• 55:55
  And who are the people that would take them to
• 55:58
  the attorney conference and then bring them back to the
• 55:59
  sho Answer I told you, Like I said, I've done
• 56:02
  it sometimes. Question yeah, answer, but typically they get the
• 56:07
  guy ready in shoe, bring him down. If R and
• 56:09
  D's out there, hey we got to move him, you know,
• 56:12
  I'll take him down whoever's going that way? Question did
• 56:15
  you ever take them there to attorney conference or back
• 56:18
  to the shoe on August ninth? Answer? I don't think so,
• 56:22
  I can't recall. Question were you still at the MCC
• 56:25
  at around eight pm on August ninth? Answer? No, I
• 56:28
  wasn't there at eight. Question and what time do you
• 56:31
  believe that you left? Mcc on August ninth. Answer between
• 56:35
  two and four. Question so sometime between two and four
• 56:39
  answer yeah, question but you weren't back. So he was
• 56:43
  in an attorney conference all that time, So the last
• 56:46
  time you possibly could have interacted with him would have
• 56:48
  been around eight am. Correct answer, I mean interacting like
• 56:52
  talking to him. Question speaking with him? Answer yeah, I
• 56:55
  don't think I I can't recall if I spoke. I
• 56:57
  don't think I spoke to him. I'm not sure if
• 57:00
  I did or if I didn't. The last time would
• 57:03
  have been I mean, yeah, if I stepped into attorney
• 57:05
  conference and said something. But he gets cut off by
• 57:08
  the investigator. Okay. Answer I don't recall that question, but
• 57:13
  you don't recall what his demeanor was or a state
• 57:15
  of mind answer that day. Question Yeah, you just mentioned
• 57:19
  the one thing where he was worried because is you
• 57:23
  know he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, the
• 57:26
  first day he got there. Question he told the officer.
• 57:29
  Answer he's saying an officer, Hey, there's this guy up here.
• 57:32
  His face as well. We get those calls all the time.
• 57:36
  Question do you know of any other complaints that were made?
• 57:38
  Did he ever complain to you or you get any
• 57:41
  other information about it. Answer, while he was planning on
• 57:45
  getting off a suicide watch, that's about it? Question Okay,
• 57:48
  And he was making those complaints to you about getting
• 57:51
  off of suicide Watch. Answer he was just saying, why
• 57:54
  you guys got me like, I'm like, well, you talk
• 57:57
  to psych and then they'll talk to you. And they
• 57:59
  spoke to him and he went back up. Question and
• 58:02
  that was this complaint about about being he gets cut
• 58:05
  off by the lieutenant. He was saying, why was he
• 58:08
  in there? He wanted his clothes and you know. Question
• 58:11
  so he didn't want to be on suicide Watch. Answer no, question,
• 58:14
  is that what you're saying? Answer No, he didn't want
• 58:17
  to question so he wanted to go back to the shoe.
• 58:21
  Answer well, he wanted to go yeah. Question do you
• 58:24
  know if he wanted to be in the shoe or
• 58:26
  did he want to be in a different area? Answer?
• 58:28
  I don't know. Question did he ever tell you? Answer? No,
• 58:31
  not me. Question do you believe that he was in
• 58:34
  the correct place in the shoe or do you believe
• 58:36
  that he should have been on my ten South or
• 58:38
  G Tier? Answer? I mean, he can't be in G tier,
• 58:41
  can't be in ten South. He's got to have a
• 58:43
  bunky right. Answer question Well, I guess it depends. Do
• 58:49
  you know what the reason why he would need a bunkie?
• 58:52
  Answer his suicide attempt hot list question? Do you ever
• 58:56
  put people that are on suicide attempts or hot list
• 58:58
  in G tier or Tense Sound Health so they can
• 59:01
  have extra eyes on them? Answer? I don't think no
• 59:05
  one in ten South is on the hot list. I
• 59:06
  don't recall. What about G tier? What's the deal with
• 59:11
  G tier? Like who goes he gets cut off by
• 59:14
  the lieutenant? Single cells? Question? Yeah, yeah, but they have
• 59:17
  cameras in there, right, every one of them gets just
• 59:20
  like ten South? Answer yeah, but nine souths some of
• 59:24
  the cameras and some of those psych cells. Question do
• 59:27
  you believe Epstein should have been in a cell with
• 59:29
  a camera in it? Answer? No question, no answer, I
• 59:32
  mean yeah, if you have to have two, the ones
• 59:36
  with the camera is single cell, you can't go there,
• 59:38
  you know. Question So you believe he should have had
• 59:41
  a cell mate and he should have been in the
• 59:43
  regular shoe because we've had other people say that he
• 59:46
  should have been on G tier, should have been on
• 59:48
  ten South. But you believe he gets cut off by
• 59:51
  the lieutenant. People are saying, I mean, if you try
• 59:53
  to commit like you just showed me the memo, right,
• 59:56
  So either he needs an extra set of eyes on
• 59:58
  him and then that's he and worse, I'm gonna put
• 1:00:01
  you in there by yourself. You saying for an extended time?
• 1:00:05
  Question I guess. But so people are saying, because officers
• 1:00:09
  are watching those people all the time, are they watching
• 1:00:11
  them all the time? Answer? How question on the cameras?
• 1:00:15
  I don't know. Answer no question, So they're not actually
• 1:00:19
  being monitored? Answer they can't watch No one can watch
• 1:00:23
  someone all the time. No question. Okay, So you think
• 1:00:25
  that it would have just been as risky, if not
• 1:00:29
  more risky with him being on G tier or ten
• 1:00:31
  South answer? Yeah, all right, folks. We're gonna wrap up
• 1:00:34
  right here, and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
• 1:00:36
  we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
• 1:00:39
  information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 1:00:42
  the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
• 1:00:45
  episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna
• 1:00:49
  dive right back into the interview given by the unnamed
• 1:00:52
  lieutenant from MCC to the investigators from the OIG. Question okay,
• 1:00:58
  fair enough. Why Epstein was in prison? Answer yeah? Question
• 1:01:02
  why answer underage trafficking, child molestation charges like that question.
• 1:01:09
  And did you have any specific feelings regarding why you
• 1:01:12
  was in prison? Answer no? Question How often will you
• 1:01:16
  speak with Epstein? Answer whenever I needed to? Question all right?
• 1:01:20
  And kind of conversation that had any substance to it,
• 1:01:24
  like substantative conversation, anything about what was like more than
• 1:01:28
  just like below? Answer nah? Question No, and you said
• 1:01:33
  you did not work at all on August tenth. Answer
• 1:01:37
  that's the day it happened. Right question. Yeah. Answer I
• 1:01:40
  wasn't there question and then you were definitively gone by
• 1:01:45
  then from mcc by four pm on August ninth. Answer
• 1:01:49
  I think so. Yeah, I think so. Question So you
• 1:01:52
  may have been gone as early as two pm. You
• 1:01:55
  just can't recall. Answer yeah. Question When was your next?
• 1:02:00
  Answer that happened on? What Saturday? Question? Yeah, he was
• 1:02:04
  found on a Saturday. Answer he died on Saturday. Right question, yeah,
• 1:02:10
  answer Saturday. I don't know if I came in on Sunday.
• 1:02:13
  I think I came in on Sunday. Question okay, and
• 1:02:16
  did you at the time did you speak with anybody
• 1:02:18
  about Epstein's death. Answer, I mean I knew about it.
• 1:02:21
  Everyone was talking about it. Question yeah, So what was
• 1:02:26
  your understanding about how he died? Answer young himself? Question
• 1:02:30
  do you know anything about anyone else taking his life?
• 1:02:33
  Answer no? Question no. Do you know anything about anyone
• 1:02:37
  assisting with taking his life? Answer no? Question no. Do
• 1:02:42
  you believe that Epstein took his own life? Answer yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Question do you believe that Epstein acted alone in taking
• 1:02:49
  his own life? Answer yes? Question all right, then there's
• 1:02:53
  only three more questions here. They are more open ended.
• 1:02:56
  What do you believe would have prevented Epstein from dying?
• 1:03:00
  Answer nothing? Question nothing. Do you think that if he
• 1:03:03
  was or wanted to take his life he would have
• 1:03:06
  done it? Answer? If it was a regular inmate, I
• 1:03:09
  don't even think he would have, you know. Question what
• 1:03:13
  are some of the systematic problems inside the MCC and
• 1:03:16
  specifically the shoe that allowed for Epstein to die? Answer
• 1:03:21
  systematic problems? Question you know, like he gets cut off
• 1:03:25
  by the lieutenant. It sounds like a union question or
• 1:03:28
  something like that. Question Well, no, because, like I told you,
• 1:03:32
  we're trying to look into like, hey man, you're right.
• 1:03:36
  Question if another inmate died. We're probably not going to
• 1:03:40
  be here talking to you, but this is high profile.
• 1:03:43
  We now need to know and figure out what went
• 1:03:45
  wrong here? How do we fix it? So, in your opinion,
• 1:03:48
  what went wrong here? Answer? I mean question, and how
• 1:03:53
  do we fix it? We're from the government, We're here
• 1:03:55
  to help answer. Yeah, my opinion, the whole cell mate
• 1:03:59
  leaving that it's not on nobody. I'm not if I
• 1:04:02
  have the notice he had up until that time and
• 1:04:06
  left for one day, then this happens. I can't blame
• 1:04:08
  lieutenant staff notifications. You know, remember there's like nine hundred
• 1:04:12
  inmates in there. Question right answer. I know he's high profile,
• 1:04:17
  but we also have to monitor other inmates. The round situation.
• 1:04:20
  If that's true, that could have been a little bit.
• 1:04:23
  You know, you've got to make the rounds in chew.
• 1:04:26
  Question counts too though, right answer, You've got to make
• 1:04:30
  rounds and counts. Question. Now, going back to there, you
• 1:04:34
  say it's not on anybody, but if he psychology is
• 1:04:37
  saying he's required to have a cell mate, it's got
• 1:04:40
  to be on somebody. Right. If he's on the hot list,
• 1:04:42
  he's in the shoe where he's supposed to have a
• 1:04:44
  cell mate anyway, and psychology is saying, he's got to
• 1:04:48
  have a cell mate. It's got to fall on somebody
• 1:04:50
  to make sure. Hey, who's supposed to make sure that
• 1:04:53
  this guy's got a cell mate? His cellmate is gone,
• 1:04:56
  he doesn't have a cell mate. Answer, So if I know,
• 1:04:59
  if I get the notice by eight, right, so evening
• 1:05:02
  Ops watch, I get the notice, Hey, this guy doesn't
• 1:05:05
  have a cell mate. All right, what's my call? I
• 1:05:08
  just throw him in there with anybody. Question. My thought
• 1:05:12
  and from talking to other people, are supposed to be
• 1:05:15
  that shoe staff should have notified the Ops lieutenant or
• 1:05:18
  the Activities lieutenant, who then should have notified the captain.
• 1:05:23
  Answer Yeah, at eight I could see that, but at
• 1:05:25
  the time on day watch. Question Yeah, answer, it's a
• 1:05:29
  judgment call question, And I'm not talking about at am.
• 1:05:34
  I'm saying, like what you just said. Answer, I want
• 1:05:38
  to say that we can't indiscernible notice. Question you don't
• 1:05:42
  think that the cell mat thing should be on anybody? Well,
• 1:05:45
  but it's like it's got to be on somebody. If
• 1:05:47
  he's required to have a cell mate, somebody's got to
• 1:05:50
  make sure that he's got a cell mate. Answer yeah,
• 1:05:54
  but what if I don't remember these guys don't even
• 1:05:58
  the guy's on Evening Watch, wasn't even sure it was right,
• 1:06:01
  it was overtime, I know, redacted. He gets cut off
• 1:06:04
  by the investigator. Well, no, I'm not talking about I'm
• 1:06:08
  talking about it was redacted. Answer. But if i'm the
• 1:06:12
  OIC question, I think redacted and Noel answer he wasn't
• 1:06:19
  even in custody at the time. No more question. All right,
• 1:06:23
  so but you got tovin Noel who that's her quarterly
• 1:06:27
  post answer? Well, she did a double that day, right question?
• 1:06:31
  Well she but yeah, but at eight pm that was
• 1:06:34
  her first shift, right answer. Yeah. Question. So we're talking
• 1:06:38
  we're talking now, not talking about morning Watch. We're talking
• 1:06:41
  about you're saying eight pm, right answer. Yeah, question, So
• 1:06:45
  that's evening watch. So we're looking at we are looking
• 1:06:48
  at he gets cut off by the lieutenant. So if
• 1:06:51
  I know, if I'm notified by eight and I called
• 1:06:53
  the captain and say, hey, this guy don't what's my
• 1:06:56
  next move, then throw him in with anybody. I mean
• 1:07:01
  I can see them saying whoever said that? Because they say, hey,
• 1:07:04
  kick it up? Question? Right answer? You know, kick it up.
• 1:07:08
  Kick the blame up top. Now, if I'm on, what
• 1:07:11
  do you want me to do? Throw the guy in
• 1:07:13
  there with anybody just because he has to have a
• 1:07:14
  cell mate? Answer well, some people have said that at
• 1:07:18
  the very least, they would have put him on like
• 1:07:20
  a dry cell type of situation where you've got a
• 1:07:23
  staff member on him until he can get placed with
• 1:07:26
  a cell mate. Answer yeah, but that's a questionable move too.
• 1:07:31
  You want me to take him and put them on
• 1:07:33
  you know? Question? So you believe so, I guess that's
• 1:07:37
  your belief then, answer, I mean, there was a time
• 1:07:40
  and opportunity. Guy wanted to take his life, the inmate left,
• 1:07:44
  He saw the time and an opportunity, and he did it.
• 1:07:47
  The officer is you know? Question but you don't believe though,
• 1:07:51
  as a correctional officer, it's a responsibility to ensure we
• 1:07:54
  ensure that they don't die while in our custody. Answer well,
• 1:07:59
  that's what the rounds are for. That's why it's so important.
• 1:08:04
  Question all right, So that's why you think it's really
• 1:08:06
  the rounds and the counts, but not necessarily the cell mate,
• 1:08:09
  but the rounds and the counts. Answer well, in the shoe,
• 1:08:13
  you're required to do it. You have to do it.
• 1:08:15
  It's for the inmate. Question and if they're not doing
• 1:08:19
  the rounds, the thirty minute rounds, that's really the blame here. Answer.
• 1:08:23
  That's a bad situation. It's a bad situation. Question. So
• 1:08:28
  you blame it on the rounds way more than you
• 1:08:30
  would blame it on the cell mate. Answer, that's it
• 1:08:33
  the cell mate. He ain't there question? Yeah, answer, you know,
• 1:08:36
  I mean that happened. It's the same thing. I understand
• 1:08:39
  they sent out the notification. There's no timeframe on it.
• 1:08:43
  Is an inmate goes, hey, you know, by the way
• 1:08:45
  this guy was on you sent this out a month ago.
• 1:08:49
  He's not suicidal no more, he said it. It's like,
• 1:08:51
  you know. Question, Well, in this case, I think it
• 1:08:54
  was like nine days. Answer Yeah, But there's still no timeframe.
• 1:08:58
  Some guys say they suicidal just to get out a
• 1:09:01
  shoe and play the game go back in. But it's
• 1:09:04
  never saying, hey, this guy is not there's no memo
• 1:09:07
  saying does not need a cell mate. Question. Would you
• 1:09:11
  agree though, that it's both the fact that he was
• 1:09:14
  required to have a cell mate and that they weren't
• 1:09:16
  conducting the rounds. Answer yeah, question, and that's where when
• 1:09:20
  I talk about the problems, he gets cut off by
• 1:09:23
  the lieutenant. The thing is that happened, But it's like
• 1:09:26
  that can happen. Hey, O, his bunkie left. I didn't
• 1:09:29
  put a cell mate. That can happen. You know that
• 1:09:32
  can happen. Here you get inmates that was crying on
• 1:09:36
  level two. Hey got to have a cell mate? You
• 1:09:38
  moved them? Yeah? Oh you ain't check? Oh you know?
• 1:09:42
  Question Yeah? So I think that what I understand you
• 1:09:46
  saying is that the primary issue is not doing rounds
• 1:09:49
  secondary and the much lesser issue was that they didn't
• 1:09:52
  fill up his cell mate. Is that correct? Answer? Yeah?
• 1:09:55
  Question okay? And are there any other problems or violations
• 1:09:59
  occurring inside the end that we should be made aware of? Answer? Huh.
• 1:10:05
  Question we're talking about the MCC answer violations. Question anything
• 1:10:10
  that we should have known about that you think needs fixed? Answer?
• 1:10:14
  You got a mandated lot. I know that you're working.
• 1:10:17
  Question So there is what you're saying then, that they're
• 1:10:21
  severely understaffed. Answer they was. I don't know how it
• 1:10:25
  is now, but they was. Question and again, when did
• 1:10:29
  you leave there? Answer? December of nineteen? Question December of nineteen.
• 1:10:34
  At that point, were they extremely understaffed? Answer extremely Question
• 1:10:39
  what about was there anything that was being fixed ever
• 1:10:42
  since when Epstein died on August of twenty nineteen, did
• 1:10:45
  you see anything being fixed at that point? Answer? They
• 1:10:49
  changed the log I know that question. Does that mean? Answer?
• 1:10:53
  They started putting inmates that go to court just in case.
• 1:10:56
  We started doing them and started attaching the PP thirty
• 1:10:59
  eight to the log. Question so they would almost be
• 1:11:02
  part of the outcount. Answer. No, you could see you
• 1:11:05
  could see all the movement. Question okay, answer, you know
• 1:11:09
  you could see all the movement. They started single cell
• 1:11:11
  memos every time. I need to know every night because
• 1:11:15
  I worked the morning every night. Hey who's up there?
• 1:11:18
  Single cell? That was my every night thing. We started that.
• 1:11:21
  More rounds, more reiteration of doing your rounds. I know,
• 1:11:25
  the rounds. They got tighter with the rounds. The log.
• 1:11:27
  It was some things. There were some things as far
• 1:11:30
  as staff. I think they did hire a class like
• 1:11:32
  right before you know? Question now, has that just been
• 1:11:38
  a constant problem with the MCC with being able to
• 1:11:41
  fill he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, that's
• 1:11:44
  been a problem for a while. It wasn't like that
• 1:11:46
  when I first got there though. Question and what is
• 1:11:50
  why do you think that it was so hard to
• 1:11:52
  keep staff placed? Answer? Well, I think they can't compete.
• 1:11:57
  It's the pay. They're not competing with other agencies. It's
• 1:11:59
  a tough job working there is tough. Question. Yeah. Answer,
• 1:12:05
  it's not easy. I'll tell you that. Question what makes
• 1:12:08
  it so tough? Answer You've got some unruly inmates. Question Yeah. Answer,
• 1:12:13
  you got a lot of unruly inmates and you're doing
• 1:12:16
  some long hours. Question Are they doing long hours because
• 1:12:20
  it's understaffed? Answer? Yeah, question, and that's what I mean.
• 1:12:24
  So it sounds to me, I mean an outsider's perspective
• 1:12:27
  is that they need a lot more employees. Answer no,
• 1:12:31
  they need that definitely more employees. Question is there a
• 1:12:34
  way for us to not only get employees, but get
• 1:12:36
  good employees? What would be the solution here? Answer? I
• 1:12:40
  mean you got to recruit. You got to take people
• 1:12:42
  that really want to do the job. Question he gets
• 1:12:47
  cut off by the lieutenant. I mean it takes some
• 1:12:49
  people that, you know, say hey, you can make this
• 1:12:51
  your first year, just going to put some work in.
• 1:12:53
  You've got people that want it, you know, they want
• 1:12:56
  the money. Question you think it means that they should have,
• 1:13:00
  like a higher pay at the MCC answer higher pay,
• 1:13:03
  or you look for people that are looking for opportunity,
• 1:13:06
  you know. Question like as in make it like a
• 1:13:09
  rotating place. You have to do a certain amount of
• 1:13:11
  time there and then you can go to like your
• 1:13:13
  choice location. What do you mean by opportunity, I guess
• 1:13:17
  I should say answer like, I don't know. I know,
• 1:13:20
  I think it's a college requirement or credit something like that.
• 1:13:23
  Is it? I don't know, I'm not sure. Question We've
• 1:13:27
  definitely talked to people that don't have bachelor's degrees. Answer yeah,
• 1:13:31
  but I think they have some credits. I think they
• 1:13:33
  change it for credits. Question Yes, some people have said
• 1:13:37
  some college. Answer yeah. Question that we've talked to that
• 1:13:40
  they don't have. I don't think I've talked to anybody
• 1:13:43
  that said they didn't have college, but I mean I
• 1:13:45
  think it was like a couple credits, you know. Answer yeah,
• 1:13:50
  but I mean some people without college, it's one opportunity
• 1:13:53
  to say, hey, you can make sixty g's your first year.
• 1:13:56
  I just need you to show up and work, follow
• 1:14:00
  the rules, you know, and the credit check I think
• 1:14:02
  was getting a lot of people. Question is that right? Answer, Yeah,
• 1:14:07
  credit checks. I think that weeds out a lot of people.
• 1:14:10
  Question now, do you believe though, on that note, if
• 1:14:12
  we're doing credit checks, we're letting that slide. Wouldn't that
• 1:14:15
  breed potential problems with introduction of contraband and being paid
• 1:14:19
  you know, for a bribing, bribing and bringing things in
• 1:14:23
  answer bribery and stuff. Question Yeah, because that's a big
• 1:14:26
  problem in the BOP. Answer Yeah, but I don't think that.
• 1:14:30
  I mean, you've got some people in there. I mean
• 1:14:32
  that don't work that don't know, you could be I've
• 1:14:35
  seen people get arrested with good credit six figures making
• 1:14:39
  six figures and do some corrupt stuff. So that's not it.
• 1:14:44
  Question Okay, answer, I'm not saying take everyone, but you know,
• 1:14:49
  it's like if you're renting to somebody and you a
• 1:14:51
  landlord and you say, all right, I know you ain't
• 1:14:53
  got the top score, but I see you pay your
• 1:14:55
  bills on time, you had a little student loan debt
• 1:14:58
  here or whatever, I'll give you a shot. Question Yeah. Answer.
• 1:15:01
  You know, all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right
• 1:15:04
  here and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
• 1:15:06
  we're gonna pick up where we left off All the
• 1:15:08
  information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 1:15:12
  the description box.