Latest / 3 Martini Lunch – Political Humor & Commentary / Twenty-Five Years Later: 9/11, Afghanistan, and What We Tell Our Kids

Transcript

Twenty-Five Years Later: 9/11, Afghanistan, and What We Tell Our Kids · 3 Martini Lunch – Political Humor & Commentary

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch. Grab a stool next
0:05
Speaker 1: to Greg Karambas of Radio America and Jim Garrity of
0:08
Speaker 1: National Review. Three martinis coming up.
0:14
Speaker 2: Really glad to have you with us for this special
0:16
Speaker 2: Friday edition of the Three Martini Lunch. 25 years since
0:19
Speaker 2: the 9-11 attacks, and Jim and I are not only
0:22
Speaker 2: old enough to remember them, we're old enough to be
0:24
Speaker 2: working professionals 25 years ago. And we'll briefly get into
0:28
Speaker 2: that in just a moment as we begin our wall-to-wall
0:32
Speaker 2: thoughts on what's changed since 9-11. We'll also be talking
0:36
Speaker 2: about the pain of what happened in Afghanistan five years
0:39
Speaker 2: ago now, as well as what to do with your kids,
0:42
Speaker 2: or really anyone under the age of 30 who doesn't
0:45
Speaker 2: have personal memories of that day anymore. How do you
0:48
Speaker 2: explain to them the significance of that day, how it
0:50
Speaker 2: impacts what's going on right now, and how they should
0:52
Speaker 2: look at what comes down in the future? Jim, I
0:55
Speaker 2: remember being a kid in 1988 when it was the
0:58
Speaker 2: 25th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination. And I knew it
1:00
Speaker 2: was a big deal. I was a presidential junkie and
1:03
Speaker 2: I liked history and all that stuff. But seeing the
1:05
Speaker 2: raw emotion in people as there was a lot of
1:07
Speaker 2: media coverage of that, and I'm thinking it's been 25 years.
1:09
Speaker 2: How is there so much raw emotion still? And well,
1:13
Speaker 2: now I know. And I've known that since 25 years
1:15
Speaker 2: since Challenger and many other things. But you never really
1:18
Speaker 2: understand it until it's something you've gone through. And we're
1:21
Speaker 2: going to briefly go through our 9-11 stories here before
1:23
Speaker 2: we talk about how Life has changed over the past
1:26
Speaker 2: quarter century, and Jim, like most people, got up in
1:29
Speaker 2: the morning. I had a little bit of a later
1:30
Speaker 2: schedule then, didn't get into the office until a little
1:32
Speaker 2: after 11. I had an evening radio news hour at
1:35
Speaker 2: that time, and I remember seeing the World Trade Center
1:38
Speaker 2: attacks and the Pentagon attack on TV and the footage
1:42
Speaker 2: of that. I remember trying to drive into D.C. I
1:45
Speaker 2: lived in Arlington. Everything was completely gridlocked, going to the
1:48
Speaker 2: metro station, metroing in, and then the two or three
1:50
Speaker 2: blocks from the McPherson Square metro station to our office
1:53
Speaker 2: was just three or four blocks from the White House
1:55
Speaker 2: and just pure gridlock again and not like annoyed rush
1:58
Speaker 2: hour gridlock, but just like completely glazed over. I have
2:01
Speaker 2: no idea what's happening or what any of this means
2:03
Speaker 2: looks on the faces of all the drivers walked into
2:06
Speaker 2: the office. All the TVs were showing the Twin Towers
2:09
Speaker 2: had imploded during the time it took me to get
2:11
Speaker 2: into the office. People covered in ash and dust and
2:14
Speaker 2: whatever else was coming as a result of that really
2:18
Speaker 2: Really shaking. My mom, of course, knew I worked three
2:21
Speaker 2: to four blocks from the White House, and she was
2:24
Speaker 2: seeing the same reports everybody else was. There were more
2:26
Speaker 2: planes that were headed to D.C., but of course, the
2:28
Speaker 2: phone lines were down. So that was a very stressful
2:31
Speaker 2: time for everyone. I had a colleague who was driving
2:34
Speaker 2: in who actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon. And
2:37
Speaker 2: I know other people who saw the plane hit the Pentagon.
2:39
Speaker 2: I'm sure you do, too. So anybody who's buying into
2:41
Speaker 2: that conspiracy BS can put.
2:43
Speaker 1: That to rest.
2:44
Speaker 2: And then after all the chaos of trying to sift
2:46
Speaker 2: through the information, much of it that was so wrong
2:49
Speaker 2: for the news show that day, I remember eventually going
2:51
Speaker 2: home late that night and still seeing the flames flickering
2:54
Speaker 2: from the Pentagon as we crossed the Roosevelt Bridge going
2:57
Speaker 2: back into Arlington.
2:59
Speaker 1: My colleague, Dan McLaughlin, worked in the World Trade Center
3:01
Speaker 1: on the 46th floor, managed to get out that day.
3:03
Speaker 1: And over at National Review, we have his memories, which
3:06
Speaker 1: I believe he wrote just three days afterwards. And he
3:09
Speaker 1: was a longtime blogger at Red State. Greg, I'm realizing that,
3:12
Speaker 1: you know, 9-11 was nine years before I met you.
3:15
Speaker 1: We started doing this podcast in 2010. There is a
3:18
Speaker 1: non-zero chance that I walked by you in that car
3:21
Speaker 1: in that traffic of walking around because state's news service
3:26
Speaker 1: offices were in the National Press Building then. And it's
3:28
Speaker 1: not far. And as I've occasionally mentioned on our anniversary podcasts,
3:33
Speaker 1: get into the office. It's funny. You think about it
3:36
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden all these little details come
3:38
Speaker 1: back to you. We had televisions on. I believe it
3:42
Speaker 1: was CNN. And the phones are ringing off the hook.
3:45
Speaker 1: In fact, I think the phones had rung so much
3:47
Speaker 1: that our phone system wasn't working. But I did manage it.
3:50
Speaker 1: And by the way, I should point out to everybody, kids,
3:52
Speaker 1: this is pre-cell phones. This is pre-smartphones. Some people had them,
3:56
Speaker 1: but they were certainly not nowhere near as ubiquitous as
3:58
Speaker 1: they were. Boxy desk telephone, picking it up, checking the voicemail.
4:02
Speaker 1: And there was a message from my wife saying a
4:05
Speaker 1: plane hit the World Trade Center. And just the tone
4:07
Speaker 1: of the voice, this is something different. And I first
4:10
Speaker 1: hear it, and you're like, oh, it must have been
4:11
Speaker 1: a Cessna. It must have been some idiot pilot or something.
4:14
Speaker 1: By that point, they've announced that two planes have hit it,
4:16
Speaker 1: and it's become very clear it's deliberate. And one of
4:19
Speaker 1: the things that I've... I put this on X Twitter
4:22
Speaker 1: the other day, and everybody's like, oh, man, I remember that. CNN,
4:26
Speaker 1: shortly after the plane hits the Pentagon, CNN reports that
4:30
Speaker 1: the National Mall is on fire. Now, what it was
4:33
Speaker 1: was people seeing the smoke from the Pentagon and not
4:36
Speaker 1: understanding what they were seeing further north in Washington, D.C.
4:40
Speaker 1: But at that point, one of my colleagues, Craig Linder,
4:42
Speaker 1: who's now, I believe, with the Associated Press, comes into
4:45
Speaker 1: the office. We see that and we're like, well, we're
4:47
Speaker 1: like two blocks from the mall. We can verify whether
4:49
Speaker 1: this is true or not. We might as well go
4:52
Speaker 1: down there. And one of the things I remember vividly
4:56
Speaker 1: is that sense of coming out the front office of
4:58
Speaker 1: the National Press Building, which is really just like a
5:01
Speaker 1: block from the White House. And just by the recognition
5:03
Speaker 1: of At that point, they didn't know there was a
5:05
Speaker 1: fourth plane out there. There were plenty of rumors of
5:07
Speaker 1: other planes and things like that. You know, at any
5:10
Speaker 1: point was I in any life or death danger on 9-11? No.
5:13
Speaker 1: But I was a block and walking around the White House.
5:16
Speaker 1: And so had Flight 93 not gone down the way
5:19
Speaker 1: it had, I know there's been, I think the 9-11
5:21
Speaker 1: report said that their most likely next target was the
5:23
Speaker 1: Capitol building. It was a larger target. It was easier
5:26
Speaker 1: to see. But the 9-11 hijackers said, you know, among
5:29
Speaker 1: their potential targets had been the White House. And God forbid,
5:31
Speaker 1: if they managed to do that, you know, In some
5:34
Speaker 1: alternate reality, I'm not here doing this podcast. But we
5:37
Speaker 1: walked out the building. And at that point, there were
5:40
Speaker 1: still tourists walking around and buses. And we looked at
5:43
Speaker 1: each other and realized these people have no idea that
5:46
Speaker 1: something's happening. And it was kind of those last moments
5:49
Speaker 1: of normalcy before the world was going to change forever.
5:53
Speaker 1: I think I got down to about, you know, got down.
5:55
Speaker 1: I could tell it was not any of the Smithsonian's.
5:57
Speaker 1: It was not a fire on the mall itself. It
6:00
Speaker 1: clearly was coming from across the river and it didn't
6:02
Speaker 1: take too much detective work to figure out the Pentagon.
6:06
Speaker 1: That's where that was. I remember hearing sonic booms, which
6:09
Speaker 1: I assume were fighter jets being scrambled to defend the
6:11
Speaker 1: airspace of Washington, D.C. And then trying to get back
6:17
Speaker 1: to my office. We didn't have laptops back then. I
6:21
Speaker 1: had to go back and actually type on a desktop computer.
6:24
Speaker 1: And they kept shutting down streets. And they also, I believe,
6:28
Speaker 1: right around as you're trying to get into the city, Greg...
6:30
Speaker 1: the federal government to realize that every federal building was
6:33
Speaker 1: a target. And we should point out at that point,
6:35
Speaker 1: there were not just this fire. There were rumors the
6:37
Speaker 1: Supreme Court building had been hit. The State Department had
6:40
Speaker 1: been a car bomb. You name the Washington landmark, there
6:44
Speaker 1: was rumors that it had been hit by some sort
6:46
Speaker 1: of terrorist attack. All people knew that we were under
6:47
Speaker 1: attack and nobody knew where the next attack was coming from.
6:51
Speaker 1: And I keep getting diverted. They're trying to evacuate every
6:55
Speaker 1: federal worker. And I looked it up. There's like 280,000
6:58
Speaker 1: federal workers in Washington, D.C. at that time. They've never
7:01
Speaker 1: tried to evacuate Washington ever since then. They've never even
7:03
Speaker 1: tried to do a practice run because you can't. You
7:06
Speaker 1: can't get that many people out of it. And basically
7:08
Speaker 1: every street and every block was snarled in every direction
7:13
Speaker 1: to say nothing of all the parents who are thinking,
7:15
Speaker 1: oh my God, are my kids safe? I got to
7:16
Speaker 1: get back to the school to pick them up, stuff
7:18
Speaker 1: like that. I get back to the National Press Building
7:21
Speaker 1: and they have six monitors that are in the lobby.
7:25
Speaker 1: And at that point, I've been walking around, but I
7:27
Speaker 1: have not actually been able to watch the news. I
7:28
Speaker 1: knew they were hit. And then I see the crayon
7:31
Speaker 1: saying both World Trade Center towers have been destroyed. And
7:35
Speaker 1: it's the first images of like 9-11 and the smoke
7:38
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And I felt like a bowling
7:40
Speaker 1: ball had landed on my chest. I just like gasped.
7:43
Speaker 1: I took a moment to process. This was something out
7:47
Speaker 1: of a science fiction movie. This was something that was,
7:49
Speaker 1: you know, it just, that sort of thing didn't happen.
7:53
Speaker 1: And at that point it was, you know, the metro
7:55
Speaker 1: had shut down. There was a clear I was not
7:57
Speaker 1: going to get back into the office to work that day.
8:00
Speaker 1: And it was just a matter of, well, I guess
8:01
Speaker 1: I got to walk home. And I lived in DuPont
8:03
Speaker 1: Circle or just south of that around that time. So
8:06
Speaker 1: it was a walk, which everybody in Washington was in
8:08
Speaker 1: that same state. And I remember every hot dog vendor
8:11
Speaker 1: guy had their boom boxes out with news radio on
8:14
Speaker 1: as they're trying to communicate to people and stuff. Eventually,
8:16
Speaker 1: what I wrote about this a couple of years ago,
8:18
Speaker 1: I said the very best part of that day was
8:21
Speaker 1: hearing the key in the lock of my wife coming home.
8:24
Speaker 1: She was at a site in Northern Virginia that would
8:27
Speaker 1: have made a likely target as well. And so we
8:29
Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, it is, I'm struck this
8:34
Speaker 1: morning by how crappy I feel, Greg. And it's not
8:38
Speaker 1: just because I'm fighting off a cold, a sense that
8:40
Speaker 1: like these feelings are not very far off the surface
8:44
Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like it was 25 years ago.
8:46
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting thing I've read this morning,
8:48
Speaker 1: it might've been Eric Erickson, forgive me if I'm misattributing,
8:50
Speaker 1: but he said like how long Should we be doing
8:53
Speaker 1: these ceremonies? How long should we keep feeling the way
8:56
Speaker 1: we feel on this day? And he pointed out that
8:58
Speaker 1: there was a ceremony for the 50th anniversary of Gettysburg
9:01
Speaker 1: in which the veterans came back. And they embraced. But
9:04
Speaker 1: there was just a recognition that 50 years, this still
9:06
Speaker 1: mattered very much to the men involved in that. And
9:09
Speaker 1: he pointed out that over in the United Kingdom, people
9:12
Speaker 1: still wear red poppies around what to us is Veterans Day.
9:15
Speaker 1: I believe there they call it Armistice Day. Forgive me
9:17
Speaker 1: if I get that wrong. But most people in England
9:21
Speaker 1: have never met a World War I veteran But that
9:23
Speaker 1: is what that is commemorating in Flanders Field and the
9:26
Speaker 1: sacrifices made during that, what they just called the World
9:29
Speaker 1: War then, because we didn't know a sequel was in
9:31
Speaker 1: the works. The Great War, yeah. Yes, and just kind
9:33
Speaker 1: of this recognition that, you know, I kind of hope
9:39
Speaker 1: this remains a big deal on the calendar for Americans.
9:44
Speaker 1: We'll talk a bit more about how we talk about
9:45
Speaker 1: this with kids and those who came after. But also
9:48
Speaker 1: I kind of recognize most Americans, December 7th is just
9:51
Speaker 1: another day on the calendar. For most Americans, November 22nd
9:55
Speaker 1: is just another day on the calendar. We don't necessarily
9:57
Speaker 1: stop and remember what happened on those dates. so it
10:01
Speaker 1: is um yeah 25 years does not feel like it
10:04
Speaker 1: has been that long and i have a feeling when
10:07
Speaker 1: you and i are in the old homes old folks
10:08
Speaker 1: home greg we're probably going to feel still feel like
10:11
Speaker 1: this on this day 30 years from now 40 years
10:14
Speaker 1: from now 50 years from now if we're still around Absolutely. Yeah.
10:17
Speaker 2: To watch it again is just as raw or very
10:20
Speaker 2: close to as raw as the day it happened. We'll
10:22
Speaker 2: talk about that again when we talk about how to
10:24
Speaker 2: talk about it with our kids in just a moment.
10:26
Speaker 2: All of that as prologue to our actual first martini today,
10:29
Speaker 2: which is the changes that we've seen over the last
10:32
Speaker 2: quarter century, the last 25 years. Part of it, of course,
10:35
Speaker 2: is that we were at war for a great percentage
10:38
Speaker 2: of that in Iraq for eight years, in Afghanistan for
10:41
Speaker 2: nearly 20. And we'll... Talk about Afghanistan in just a
10:47
Speaker 2: moment as well. But in terms of the home front here, obviously,
10:50
Speaker 2: the security apparatus changed. Back in the day, you could
10:53
Speaker 2: walk your family member right to the gate at the airport.
10:55
Speaker 2: You just had to go through the metal detector. Now,
10:57
Speaker 2: it sounds like they're going to change that with TSA
11:00
Speaker 2: pre-check here in a little bit that you might be
11:02
Speaker 2: able to do that to some extent. But now, of course,
11:04
Speaker 2: if you don't have the ticket, you don't go past security.
11:07
Speaker 2: There's nothing like TSA. You know, 15, 20 years ago,
11:10
Speaker 2: we're having the huge debates over the nudie pics when
11:12
Speaker 2: you get in the surrender pose there in the scanner.
11:15
Speaker 2: and everything else, and just the security apparatus, the increased
11:21
Speaker 2: technology state that we're in. A lot of people frustrated
11:24
Speaker 2: by that. And of course, we had the coming together
11:27
Speaker 2: on 9-11. And for many weeks and months after that,
11:30
Speaker 2: we eventually got back to partisan politics before too long.
11:33
Speaker 2: But there was this great unity that I just don't
11:36
Speaker 2: think we would see this day and age. Just yesterday,
11:39
Speaker 2: we talked about how way too many people were celebrating
11:42
Speaker 2: the murder of Charlie Kirk last year. I'm sure Regardless
11:45
Speaker 2: of who is in the White House, there would be
11:48
Speaker 2: some major polarizing debate immediately, even before we even saw
11:53
Speaker 2: the towers come down. If that were to happen today,
11:55
Speaker 2: there would be finger pointing all over the place. So
11:58
Speaker 2: a lot has changed both personally and in terms of
12:01
Speaker 2: our experiences nationwide.
12:02
Speaker 1: You know, Greg, this was a topic for today's Morning Jolt.
12:05
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out what's left to say. And
12:07
Speaker 1: it's like, OK, well, we're clearly a different culture than
12:10
Speaker 1: we were a quarter century ago. We're a different people.
12:14
Speaker 1: And the question is like, if we don't like it,
12:17
Speaker 1: if we don't feel like we're as, if we don't
12:18
Speaker 1: like the changes we've seen, why and how did we
12:21
Speaker 1: get here? And one of the things you look, I
12:23
Speaker 1: think about the, there's a phrase called the monoculture, right?
12:28
Speaker 1: The idea that when the bygone era, generally pre-internet when,
12:33
Speaker 1: or early internet, when everybody was watching the same movies,
12:36
Speaker 1: same TV shows, everybody, you know, like the idea of
12:39
Speaker 1: the same frame of reference. And I think it's, you know,
12:42
Speaker 1: that's something we clearly have lost. We've become much more
12:44
Speaker 1: balkanized as a society, not just in terms of our
12:47
Speaker 1: popular culture, but I think also in terms of our
12:49
Speaker 1: broader culture. It was a big deal when, who was
12:54
Speaker 1: the university, Ward Churchill, the University of Colorado professor, who
12:59
Speaker 1: was nuts. And, you know, these days a nutty professor
13:01
Speaker 1: is not exactly shocking, but he had said, he basically
13:04
Speaker 1: had praised the 9-11 attacks, I guess, because like I
13:06
Speaker 1: remember he called the victims Little Eichmanns or something, some
13:09
Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, and the idea, there was
13:11
Speaker 1: a huge response to that, right? And this was a
13:14
Speaker 1: guy who was a classical Marxist, I believe, who was like, ah,
13:18
Speaker 1: the World Trade Center is a symbol of capitalism. Al-Qaeda
13:20
Speaker 1: destroyed a symbol of capitalism. I think capitalism is bad. Ergo,
13:25
Speaker 1: the I-11 attacks were good and everyone who was killed
13:27
Speaker 1: in it was bad and deserved to die because they were,
13:31
Speaker 1: you know, gears in the cogs in the machine of capitalism, blah, blah, blah.
13:36
Speaker 1: It was a huge deal. When you and I say
13:39
Speaker 1: we don't know if there would be that same level
13:42
Speaker 1: of unity in the response to a terrorist attack today,
13:44
Speaker 1: may that never happen, God forbid. I think it has
13:48
Speaker 1: just become, it's just much more widespread to try to
13:53
Speaker 1: shoehorn human beings into these political categories, ideological categories, and that.
14:01
Speaker 1: You could be further to the left of Bernie Sanders,
14:05
Speaker 1: you could be further to the right than I don't know,
14:07
Speaker 1: Attila the Hun, you know, wherever you want to put somebody,
14:10
Speaker 1: on 9-11, you had a very clear sense of who
14:12
Speaker 1: the heroes were and who the villains were. And there
14:14
Speaker 1: was no sense, like, you didn't have to love, you know,
14:19
Speaker 1: every single person, every company in the World Trade Center
14:22
Speaker 1: to say, those people didn't deserve to die. Those people,
14:25
Speaker 1: you know, and one of the other searing observations came
14:30
Speaker 1: from my colleague, Dan McLaughlin, who says, now looking at
14:32
Speaker 1: this as a guy who's, I think he's in his
14:33
Speaker 1: 50s now, his kids have grown up. And he thinks
14:36
Speaker 1: about all the things he's gotten to do in the
14:38
Speaker 1: past 25 years, that those who were slain that day.
14:41
Speaker 1: And we should point out, they were killed. Zoran Mamdami
14:44
Speaker 1: is not technically wrong when he says about 3,000 people
14:48
Speaker 1: died that day, but that's a really soft, passive verb.
14:52
Speaker 1: They were murdered. It was very much a deliberate act.
14:54
Speaker 1: It was not a terrible natural disaster. It was not
14:56
Speaker 1: an earthquake. This was, you know, someone set out to
15:00
Speaker 1: kill as many people as possible. And sometimes the verbiage
15:03
Speaker 1: makes it sound like Some people want to downplay that
15:06
Speaker 1: aspect of it. But either way, he observed that, like,
15:10
Speaker 1: there are kids who were not born who otherwise would
15:12
Speaker 1: have been born. You know, there are people in our
15:13
Speaker 1: lives who are not there. And, you know, this is,
15:17
Speaker 1: you know, between yesterday and today, we're setting a record
15:19
Speaker 1: for most depressing episodes of this podcast ever. But we
15:22
Speaker 1: also kind of recognize, like, usually we're pretty jovial. And
15:24
Speaker 1: it's because life's been pretty good to us. And, you know,
15:26
Speaker 1: we'll talk a bit about kids in a second. But, like,
15:28
Speaker 1: you know, life can be pretty darn good. And when
15:31
Speaker 1: someone has it cut short like that, they miss out on,
15:34
Speaker 1: so many things that they deserved and ought to have had.
15:37
Speaker 1: So we just had to clear moral clarity then. We
15:39
Speaker 1: didn't shoehorn people into political litmus tests. And so I
15:44
Speaker 1: think it's unfortunate. I think it's a reflection of a
15:47
Speaker 1: media space that has gone from being institution-based, New York Times, CNN,
15:52
Speaker 1: the big three television networks and stuff like that, to
15:55
Speaker 1: the era of the blogosphere, which honestly I feel a
15:57
Speaker 1: term people don't really use anymore, to the era of sub-stack,
16:00
Speaker 1: to the era of social media, to the fact where
16:03
Speaker 1: influencers Greg, have you noticed everybody's got a podcast? Any
16:06
Speaker 1: two schmoes can just have a podcast. And, you know,
16:10
Speaker 1: the New York Times is a, you know, you and
16:12
Speaker 1: I could do many episodes on the flaws of the
16:14
Speaker 1: New York Times. The New York Times, for all of
16:16
Speaker 1: its flaws, I don't think would ever do, would never
16:19
Speaker 1: have Candace Owens as a columnist writing for a year
16:21
Speaker 1: that Charlie Kirk was assassinated by the Israelis and the
16:24
Speaker 1: French and Brigitte Macron, who's secretly a man, blah, blah, blah.
16:27
Speaker 1: You know, like the New York Times has flaws. They'll
16:29
Speaker 1: have their correspondents sing the praises of communism. and cover
16:33
Speaker 1: up Soviet crimes for decades at a time. But they're
16:35
Speaker 1: not going to make that one because the institution doesn't, one,
16:39
Speaker 1: they're free of getting sued, and two, the institution, like,
16:42
Speaker 1: seeks out protecting its reputation. The New York Times can't
16:47
Speaker 1: afford to have a Candace Owens-style columnist ruining its credibility
16:51
Speaker 1: for everyone else who works there. When you're Candace Owens
16:54
Speaker 1: and you're a one-person operation, or Tucker Carlson, or Hassan Piker,
16:59
Speaker 1: or Jennifer Welch, like, the rise of the larger-than-life podcasting
17:04
Speaker 1: persona has enabled a lot of people to inject a
17:08
Speaker 1: lot of ideas into the bloodstream of American politics, i.e.
17:12
Speaker 1: America Deserved 9-11, one of the most infamous statements of
17:16
Speaker 1: Hasan Piker. That's one of the things. Hasan Piker keeps
17:21
Speaker 1: getting glowing profiles from the New York Times, but he
17:24
Speaker 1: could never work for the New York Times. The New
17:25
Speaker 1: York Times would be terrified of having someone like him
17:27
Speaker 1: doing that and getting them sued. Joe Blow, the blogger,
17:30
Speaker 1: can say the 2020 election was stolen and Venezuela hacked
17:33
Speaker 1: the voting machines and stuff like that. Fox news channel
17:36
Speaker 1: will not be saying that again, because they have 787
17:39
Speaker 1: million reasons not to do that. And that I think
17:42
Speaker 1: is just a reflection of our changed media landscape and
17:44
Speaker 1: the degree to which more extreme and crazier ideas have
17:48
Speaker 1: a much easier time getting a mainstream audience. Thanks to
17:51
Speaker 1: the internet. Thanks to social media. Thanks to the algorithms.
17:54
Speaker 2: Now, obviously so many different changes technologically and, uh, within
17:58
Speaker 2: the industry, but, uh, The attitudes have definitely changed as well,
18:02
Speaker 2: and we'll get into that a little bit.
18:03
Speaker 1: Later as well.
18:05
Speaker 2: As you can tell already, we're at the end of
18:06
Speaker 2: the first martini. This is going to be an extended
18:07
Speaker 2: edition of the Three Martini Lunch, and so much more
18:11
Speaker 2: to get to, but we're also grateful for our sponsors,
18:13
Speaker 2: and that includes Lorinco. There are many different ways to
18:17
Speaker 2: take good care of your oral health. Brushing, of course,
18:20
Speaker 2: multiple times a day. You've also got the flossing, and
18:24
Speaker 2: then there's also Lorinco, which is better for you. Chewing
18:27
Speaker 2: gum that uses the same mineral your teeth are made of,
18:29
Speaker 2: to support daily enamel health.
18:32
Speaker 1: Listeners, right around here, I would usually go with a
18:34
Speaker 1: joke about nanohydroxyapatite and how hard it is to pronounce,
18:37
Speaker 1: but I think I'm just going to go straight into
18:38
Speaker 1: the ad text if you don't mind. I think everyone understands.
18:41
Speaker 1: Take care of the people you love and take care
18:43
Speaker 1: of your teeth. Nanohydroxyapatite is the mineral that your enamel
18:47
Speaker 1: is actually made of, and this lorine products will help
18:50
Speaker 1: strengthen your enamel and repair the damage. Comes in lots
18:53
Speaker 1: of flavors, including mint, cinnamon, bubblegum, and berry. And let's
18:56
Speaker 1: not forget that they have a really great fluoride-free toothpaste
18:59
Speaker 1: as well. I use the toothpaste.
19:01
Speaker 2: I chew the gum. My daughter loves the gum as well.
19:04
Speaker 2: Right now, Lorraine Co. offering our listeners up to 50%
19:06
Speaker 2: off at buylorraine.com slash 3ML. That's buylorraine, L-A-R-I-N-E dot com
19:13
Speaker 2: slash 3ML for up to 50% off. All right, Jim. Well,
19:23
Speaker 2: one of the things that happened, of course, shortly after
19:24
Speaker 2: 9-11 is we went to war in Afghanistan. The Taliban,
19:28
Speaker 2: which was running Afghanistan at the time, was harboring al-Qaeda,
19:31
Speaker 2: which had been given safe haven to plot and plan
19:34
Speaker 2: all of these attacks. So naturally, President Bush says, hand
19:37
Speaker 2: them over or we're coming to get them and you.
19:40
Speaker 2: And so they didn't hand them over. And so less
19:41
Speaker 2: than a month later, we're in Afghanistan. We've got the
19:44
Speaker 2: horse soldiers. We're partnering up with the Northern Alliance. And
19:48
Speaker 2: within a matter of weeks, the Taliban is gone. Unfortunately,
19:52
Speaker 2: Osama bin Laden escapes out of Tora Bora. We did
19:54
Speaker 2: eventually get him through an awesome SEAL Team 6 mission
19:58
Speaker 2: in 2011, so nearly a decade after the fact. Kind
20:02
Speaker 2: of a little bit changing mission in Afghanistan over time,
20:06
Speaker 2: trying to prop up a government there and prop up
20:09
Speaker 2: their security forces, which always seemed to be a moving
20:12
Speaker 2: target and never able to really get done. And then,
20:16
Speaker 2: of course, we get into 2021 and we got people
20:20
Speaker 2: ready to move on from Afghanistan. You and I talked
20:23
Speaker 2: about it a lot at the time. President Biden saying that,
20:27
Speaker 2: you know, the Taliban wasn't about to overrun Kabul, but
20:30
Speaker 2: they did We had talked about how closing Bagram at
20:33
Speaker 2: the time seemed like a foolhardy move before everything else
20:36
Speaker 2: was closed. And then ultimately, you know, the Taliban was
20:41
Speaker 2: back in power throughout the entire country. They gave us
20:45
Speaker 2: Hamid Karzai International Airport and that whole chaotic situation and
20:48
Speaker 2: trying to get people out, smuggling people out, Americans, U.S.
20:53
Speaker 2: allies who had helped us for all these years. And then,
20:55
Speaker 2: of course, that horrific terrorist attack at Abbey Gate and
20:58
Speaker 2: then ultimately the And so for those who put in
21:01
Speaker 2: so much, for those who lost people in Afghanistan, seeing
21:04
Speaker 2: the Taliban back in charge has been extraordinarily difficult. And
21:08
Speaker 2: the promise that this wasn't necessarily going to happen again,
21:11
Speaker 2: you have to assume the Taliban's at least friendly, if
21:13
Speaker 2: not harboring folks again. I know experts like Peter Bergen
21:16
Speaker 2: don't think any terrorist groups that are harboring there right
21:19
Speaker 2: now really have the wherewithal to do something like this again.
21:22
Speaker 2: I guess, unfortunately, we'll find out in due time. But, uh, Jim, um,
21:27
Speaker 2: you know, Iraq was also left with a bittersweet taste
21:30
Speaker 2: as well, which kind of led to the, the rise
21:32
Speaker 2: of ISIS. So we didn't necessarily get the convincing and
21:35
Speaker 2: official wins that we wanted to there. I still think, um,
21:38
Speaker 2: you know, those who serve there can hold their heads
21:40
Speaker 2: high and they accomplished amazing things and did everything that
21:43
Speaker 2: was asked of them. And, uh, our military power is,
21:46
Speaker 2: is unmatched and we absolutely destroyed everything in our path.
21:50
Speaker 2: And then a little bit of the politics got involved
21:52
Speaker 2: there to say the least, but, uh, When you kind
21:55
Speaker 2: of have the same people in charge who were there
21:57
Speaker 2: 25 years ago, it's a pretty tough pill to swallow.
21:59
Speaker 1: It is. If the United States and its government had
22:02
Speaker 1: the ability to choose the course for other countries, the
22:06
Speaker 1: world would be a very different place. It would be
22:08
Speaker 1: a better place. It would be a happier place. It
22:09
Speaker 1: would be a safer place. The limits of our power
22:13
Speaker 1: were vividly demonstrated back then. And I think the way
22:17
Speaker 1: we think about 9-11 and its legacy... Was drastically altered
22:21
Speaker 1: by that. I think starting in about 2011, we could
22:24
Speaker 1: look at, you know, the events of 9-11 and say
22:26
Speaker 1: to the remains of Al Qaeda, yes, you hit us
22:29
Speaker 1: very hard that day. Yes, it was very painful. Yes,
22:32
Speaker 1: we still mourn the losses, but your leader is fish food.
22:37
Speaker 1: And there's no, like, he's not coming back. And Dr.
22:41
Speaker 1: What's his name? Zawahiri? Was it Zawahiri? Zawahiri, yeah. You know,
22:46
Speaker 1: you guys were clowns. You know, people pointed out even
22:49
Speaker 1: before then, 2009, as the quote unquote Arab Spring, you know,
22:52
Speaker 1: there was this great tumult in the Arab world. And
22:55
Speaker 1: someone observed that very few, if any, voices in the
22:58
Speaker 1: Arab world were saying, well, what does bin Laden think?
23:02
Speaker 1: Al-Qaeda had been largely marginalized. Now, Has all Islamism, has
23:06
Speaker 1: all Sharia, has all extremism been as marginalized as we'd
23:10
Speaker 1: like it to be? No, not at all. Is Al-Qaeda
23:12
Speaker 1: in the Arabian Peninsula still active? Yeah, but again, we
23:16
Speaker 1: don't lose any sleep about these guys. We don't spend
23:18
Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about them. And I feel
23:20
Speaker 1: at that point, we could kind of say, oh, on
23:23
Speaker 1: September 11th, you guys picked a fight that you were
23:25
Speaker 1: destined to lose. And that's why we don't spend a
23:28
Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about that. ISIS was kind of
23:30
Speaker 1: the inheritor of that mantle for a while. But I
23:33
Speaker 1: really feel like watching 2021, it became a lot harder
23:38
Speaker 1: to say that we had effectively won. And again, this
23:41
Speaker 1: was ultimately up to the Afghans. No one can say
23:45
Speaker 1: the U.S. didn't do enough, that it didn't pay enough
23:47
Speaker 1: in blood and treasure, that it didn't sacrifice enough, that
23:50
Speaker 1: it didn't try hard enough. In the end, this is
23:52
Speaker 1: up to the Afghans and what kind of country... They
23:55
Speaker 1: want to be, and unfortunately enough, Afghan men decided, we
23:58
Speaker 1: want to go right back to the Taliban. We want
24:00
Speaker 1: to go right back to abusing women. We want to
24:02
Speaker 1: go right back to not educating women. We want to
24:05
Speaker 1: go right back to being what we were, which is
24:09
Speaker 1: appalling and emotionally dispiriting. Look, I understand it's really tough
24:15
Speaker 1: to look for silver linings on a day like this,
24:17
Speaker 1: but I will point out that we should still be
24:19
Speaker 1: proud of the fact that American military equipment that we
24:22
Speaker 1: left behind... at least it is still killing Taliban and
24:25
Speaker 1: that I believe they've had at least seven major helicopter
24:28
Speaker 1: crashes since then. Shockingly, these Stone Age cavemen who have
24:34
Speaker 1: no use for the modern world find the flight controls
24:37
Speaker 1: a little complicated and not as easy to fly as
24:40
Speaker 1: the magic carpets.
24:42
Speaker 2: No, no. And also hats off to the people who
24:45
Speaker 2: helped to get as many people out of Afghanistan in
24:47
Speaker 2: that pure chaos. We'll never know the full story on that.
24:50
Speaker 2: The veterans, intel people, journalists that I know were working
24:54
Speaker 2: the phones 24-7, getting as many people to that airport
24:56
Speaker 2: as possible. Absolutely pure chaos. And of course, you know,
25:00
Speaker 2: anyone who's lost anyone in Afghanistan throughout that 20 years,
25:03
Speaker 2: but Abby Gate, I'm thinking specifically of right now, you know,
25:08
Speaker 2: we thank you and we grieve with you because of
25:12
Speaker 2: the loss that you suffered there and our nation suffered
25:14
Speaker 2: that loss as well. And so we would love to
25:16
Speaker 2: have something more to celebrate there. But again, if you
25:19
Speaker 2: served anywhere in the war on terror, you did an
25:21
Speaker 2: awesome job. And again, the U.S. military is undefeated. It's
25:25
Speaker 2: the people who try to figure out what to do
25:27
Speaker 2: after the U.S. military has dominated that sometimes aren't quite
25:31
Speaker 2: as good as the military folks themselves.
25:33
Speaker 1: So, all right.
25:34
Speaker 2: In a moment, we'll be talking about how to tell
25:36
Speaker 2: your kids or young adults who just don't remember that
25:39
Speaker 2: day and why they need to. But in the meantime,
25:42
Speaker 2: let's quickly talk about ZocDoc and the importance of taking
25:45
Speaker 2: care of your health. And that means your primary, your
25:49
Speaker 2: eye doctor, your dentist, maybe some specialists. The big deal
25:52
Speaker 2: is that ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors.
25:56
Speaker 2: Then you can choose. Check out all those reviews. See
25:58
Speaker 2: what their demeanor is like. See what their specialty is
26:00
Speaker 2: like inside their specialty. See what their office is like.
26:04
Speaker 2: And then you can book your appointment right there. You
26:06
Speaker 2: don't have to talk to anyone.
26:07
Speaker 1: ZocDoc is a hated foe of procrastinators. Because if you've
26:12
Speaker 1: been putting off that doctor's appointment, you're really not going
26:14
Speaker 1: to have an excuse after you find out how easy
26:16
Speaker 1: it is to use ZocDoc. They have tons of reviews
26:19
Speaker 1: from real patients, detailed doctor profiles to help you choose
26:22
Speaker 1: the right one, and perhaps best of all, you get
26:24
Speaker 1: to see actual appointment openings and click to instantly book
26:27
Speaker 1: a visit. Appointments typically happen fast, usually within 24 to
26:31
Speaker 1: 72 hours, and sometimes you can even score same-day appointments.
26:34
Speaker 2: Your health matters, and taking care of yourself should not
26:37
Speaker 2: be complicated. Find and book the right doctor with ZocDoc.
26:40
Speaker 2: Head to ZocDoc.com slash 3ML to get started, and check
26:43
Speaker 2: that appointment off your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com. All right, Jim,
26:59
Speaker 2: how do we talk about this to the kids and
27:01
Speaker 2: make sure they understand and understand correctly? I mentioned a
27:05
Speaker 2: few years ago on the podcast that on one of
27:07
Speaker 2: our trips to Michigan over the summer, we stopped at
27:10
Speaker 2: the United 93 Memorial in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. To say that
27:14
Speaker 2: I was not prepared for how deeply moving that would be,
27:17
Speaker 2: and Mrs. Karimus would agree with me, is quite something.
27:19
Speaker 2: The Visitor's Center exhibit was absolutely powerful. They had all
27:23
Speaker 2: the images of all the major moments from that day,
27:27
Speaker 2: and your mind takes you right back to exactly what
27:30
Speaker 2: you were thinking and feeling at that time, and it
27:32
Speaker 2: is overwhelming. And there was also a wall where you
27:37
Speaker 2: could pick up a phone and you could listen to
27:39
Speaker 2: the final messages of that people had left for their
27:42
Speaker 2: loved ones. I honestly didn't even do it. My wife did,
27:46
Speaker 2: and I knew I couldn't handle it. And now I
27:48
Speaker 2: regret that. And if we ever go back there, I
27:50
Speaker 2: will certainly do that. But I just knew that would
27:52
Speaker 2: be too much. And so, and then you think about
27:56
Speaker 2: the story of United Flight 93 and how so many
27:59
Speaker 2: people have said they were really the first kind of
28:02
Speaker 2: fighting back of that day, America fighting back and stopping
28:05
Speaker 2: that terrorist attack that was probably coming to right where
28:07
Speaker 2: you and I were, Jim, whether it was the Capitol,
28:10
Speaker 2: whether it was the White House, they were planning to
28:11
Speaker 2: hit something really darn close to us. So it's not
28:13
Speaker 2: out of the realm of possibility that those people sacrificed
28:16
Speaker 2: their lives so you and I could be, and many
28:19
Speaker 2: other people could be around today. And so they are
28:22
Speaker 2: owed a tremendous amount of gratitude. And my kids were
28:26
Speaker 2: kind of like me in 1988. They understood that this
28:29
Speaker 2: was a terrible thing. They understood what the terrorists did
28:32
Speaker 2: was horrible and the courage of the passengers that day,
28:35
Speaker 2: but they didn't live through it. So they don't have
28:37
Speaker 2: the same experience. They don't have the same raw emotion
28:41
Speaker 2: like that. So how do you do it? And one
28:43
Speaker 2: of the ways you do it is you find, I think,
28:44
Speaker 2: age-appropriate documentaries so they can understand it. I still have
28:48
Speaker 2: newspaper headlines that I collected on September 12th. I still
28:51
Speaker 2: remember Act of War, USA Today, Infamy, Washington Times. I
28:56
Speaker 2: had the Washington Post as well. They had like three
28:57
Speaker 2: or four sentences in a really long headline. I don't
28:59
Speaker 2: remember exactly what it said, but obviously it summed up
29:02
Speaker 2: what happened that day. And then, of course, you just
29:05
Speaker 2: kind of walk through that experience and explain what happened.
29:09
Speaker 2: And one of the things we're seeing today is that, unfortunately,
29:13
Speaker 2: things are getting watered down. I hope your childhood Still
29:17
Speaker 2: in Fairfax Public Schools hasn't dealt with this, but there
29:19
Speaker 2: was a report out yesterday that there is a guide
29:21
Speaker 2: from Fairfax Public Schools about how to deal with this.
29:24
Speaker 2: Things you should do. Spend time familiarizing yourself with the
29:28
Speaker 2: complexity of 9-11 and leverage a critical lens with students.
29:33
Speaker 2: Whatever that's supposed to mean. Prioritize student safety and wellness.
29:36
Speaker 2: Design instruction around your students' needs and experiences. and design
29:41
Speaker 2: for accurate, inclusive representation. Emphasize humanity, hope, and unity. Things
29:46
Speaker 2: you should not do. You should not associate the 9-11
29:50
Speaker 2: attacks with Islam or Muslims. Not sure how you do that.
29:53
Speaker 2: And also, don't center the extremists or.
29:56
Speaker 1: The acts of the extremists.
29:59
Speaker 2: What else are you going to be talking about that day?
30:01
Speaker 2: And so, you know, yes, don't blame your Muslim neighbor
30:04
Speaker 2: who had nothing to do with 9-11 or had nothing
30:06
Speaker 2: to do with extremism. I have a friend in the
30:09
Speaker 2: neighborhood who grew up in Afghanistan, and he was an interpreter.
30:13
Speaker 2: He was embedded with the Marines. He showed me the
30:15
Speaker 2: video from his phone, which you probably shouldn't do, of
30:17
Speaker 2: him in combat with the Marines. He's one of the
30:19
Speaker 2: hardest working guys I know. He loves being in America,
30:22
Speaker 2: misses his family and friends in Afghanistan, of course.
30:25
Speaker 1: But he's great.
30:26
Speaker 2: So you don't Paint with that broad brush. But if
30:28
Speaker 2: you're talking about what was perpetrated that day, you have
30:31
Speaker 2: to talk about Islam, you have to talk about the extremists,
30:34
Speaker 2: and you have to talk about what they did. So
30:36
Speaker 2: be honest with your kids, make it age appropriate, but
30:38
Speaker 2: make sure they understand and just make sure, answer any
30:43
Speaker 2: questions they have.
30:43
Speaker 1: Don't center the perpetrators. Well, what was perpetrated is what
30:48
Speaker 1: we're all talking about. Like, it's kind of hard to
30:51
Speaker 1: do that. Don't refer to Islam or Muslims. How about
30:56
Speaker 1: radical Islam? How about Islamism? My colleague Noah Rothman had a,
31:01
Speaker 1: it was on Abby Phillips' program on CNN earlier this week. Apparently,
31:05
Speaker 1: Abby Phillips has never heard the term Islamism, or at
31:07
Speaker 1: least that was the reaction, or it certainly seemed that
31:10
Speaker 1: way from that conversation, which is mind-boggling. So I was
31:16
Speaker 1: thinking about the lessons that I taught Mike. First of all,
31:20
Speaker 1: when bin Laden got killed, I was obviously elated for
31:22
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons, but it dawned on me at
31:24
Speaker 1: that point, one was three, one was one, And my
31:28
Speaker 1: kids were going to grow up in a world without
31:29
Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden. Didn't mean they weren't going to grow
31:32
Speaker 1: up in a world that didn't have terrorism. Didn't mean
31:34
Speaker 1: they weren't going to grow up in a world that
31:35
Speaker 1: didn't have any danger. You know, my guys and your
31:39
Speaker 1: gals are a little bit younger, but they've grown up
31:41
Speaker 1: with COVID. They've grown up with, you know, some some
31:44
Speaker 1: real challenges. You know, we live in an era of
31:46
Speaker 1: school shootings. We live in an era of 10-7. You know,
31:49
Speaker 1: like the world still has terrifying and bad things in it.
31:52
Speaker 1: But that was one less thing to worry about as
31:54
Speaker 1: they sing in Hamilton. But Osama bin Laden had bitten
31:58
Speaker 1: the dust and was no longer going to be terrorizing
32:02
Speaker 1: anyone other than the digestive tracts of fish.
32:05
Speaker 2: And.
32:06
Speaker 1: And so I thought about like two museum displays that
32:11
Speaker 1: ended up, because we're like, you know, what age do
32:12
Speaker 1: you feel like kids are ready or something? The old Newseum,
32:16
Speaker 1: which is now, is on Pennsylvania Avenue. It's now defunct
32:20
Speaker 1: and now that building was purchased, I believe, by Johns
32:22
Speaker 1: Hopkins University. It was a good museum. I know there
32:25
Speaker 1: were a bunch of people who felt like the news
32:27
Speaker 1: didn't deserve its own museum down in downtown Washington. It
32:32
Speaker 1: was really turned into like a museum of current events.
32:34
Speaker 1: They had things like the Unabomber Shack and things like that.
32:37
Speaker 1: And they also, I believe, had the radio tower from
32:39
Speaker 1: the top of the World Trade Center, which was largely intact.
32:44
Speaker 1: And so at some point when the kids are young,
32:47
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what age, maybe like five and seven,
32:51
Speaker 1: something like that, we're there and we're watching this documentary
32:55
Speaker 1: of news. And they show some of the footage of
32:57
Speaker 1: the attacks. They show the plane, the second plane hitting
32:59
Speaker 1: the tower. And I could see my kid's eyes bulge
33:05
Speaker 1: looking at that and realizing they've never seen that before.
33:09
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where if you've never
33:11
Speaker 1: seen it, we're seeing something familiar, a plane. You're seeing
33:16
Speaker 1: something familiar, a skyscraper. And you know what those two
33:19
Speaker 1: things are, but they're not supposed to go together. Your
33:22
Speaker 1: mind is like, that doesn't compute. That doesn't process. So
33:27
Speaker 1: we talked about it a bit after that. And then
33:29
Speaker 1: a couple of years later, we went to the Spy Museum, which,
33:34
Speaker 1: by the way, is an excellent museum. And one of
33:36
Speaker 1: their major displays is about the Bin Laden raid. And
33:39
Speaker 1: they're talking about intelligence. They're talking about how you analyze
33:43
Speaker 1: intelligence and what was known about the compound, what was
33:46
Speaker 1: known about the tall figure seen pacing within the courtyard,
33:50
Speaker 1: but they had no actual good photographs of. And trying
33:53
Speaker 1: to say, does this match bin Laden? Does this match
33:56
Speaker 1: the intelligence? And I remember my guys who were a
33:58
Speaker 1: couple years older at that point. It's kind of an
34:00
Speaker 1: interactive thing. And they kind of, you know, they give
34:02
Speaker 1: you a quiz. And you kind of say, do you
34:03
Speaker 1: think this points to this being bin Laden or not?
34:06
Speaker 1: And the kids were utterly entranced and fascinated. And it
34:10
Speaker 1: was fascinating to see something that, you know, obviously... after
34:14
Speaker 1: the raid, we were devouring every bit of information. Now
34:17
Speaker 1: to my kids, like things we'd lived through were now
34:20
Speaker 1: something that were fascinating our kids. And I think, you know,
34:25
Speaker 1: but museums can show things and make it more tactile
34:28
Speaker 1: in a way that, as you mentioned with the 9-11
34:31
Speaker 1: Shanksville Memorial, you know, documentaries are good. I think, you know,
34:35
Speaker 1: parents telling their personal stories is almost a prerequisite. And Greg,
34:40
Speaker 1: we've done this on this podcast. We've done this, you've
34:42
Speaker 1: seen it all over social media. It doesn't take much
34:45
Speaker 1: to get people telling where they were that day. I
34:47
Speaker 1: think it's much like where you were on November 22nd, 1963,
34:51
Speaker 1: much like where you were on December 7th. Everybody remembers
34:53
Speaker 1: exactly where they were. When I was writing Voting to Kill,
34:56
Speaker 1: I was a pollster who said, when you are in
35:00
Speaker 1: a dangerous situation, your adrenaline starts pumping and your mind
35:05
Speaker 1: goes into a point where the mind doesn't know what
35:07
Speaker 1: sensory input is important. But it's like all of that
35:10
Speaker 1: goes into the specialty memory. All of that goes into
35:13
Speaker 1: the intense, you know, do not forget this sort of thing.
35:16
Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons people have such vivid
35:18
Speaker 1: memories and the details of what they were doing and
35:21
Speaker 1: where they were. And I remember this pollster describing a
35:24
Speaker 1: focus group and they talked about parents who had often,
35:27
Speaker 1: many parents had dropped off their kids at school and
35:30
Speaker 1: were either on their way home or on their way
35:31
Speaker 1: to work or doing something. And the degree to which
35:34
Speaker 1: they uh then here on the car radio or something
35:37
Speaker 1: what's happening and that the you know planes have struck
35:39
Speaker 1: where america is under attack and they had the question
35:42
Speaker 1: of do you try to go back to pick up
35:44
Speaker 1: your kids at school or not and this person's this
35:46
Speaker 1: pollster was describing a focus group and one of the
35:49
Speaker 1: moms like the head turned around said i picked up
35:51
Speaker 1: my kid and it was there was interesting the the
35:53
Speaker 1: depth of emotion this was years later and it was
35:56
Speaker 1: just kind of this sense of like um The memories
36:01
Speaker 1: came back and that mama bear instinct that I think
36:04
Speaker 1: we've definitely seen in our wives and we definitely have
36:06
Speaker 1: seen in many moms across the country and across the world.
36:10
Speaker 1: I think that there is this recognition. And this is
36:13
Speaker 1: the thing is that the kids, our kids, everybody who's
36:16
Speaker 1: born afterwards, they're all good kids. They don't feel it
36:22
Speaker 1: the way we do. And on the one hand, we
36:23
Speaker 1: kind of don't want them to feel it the way
36:25
Speaker 1: we do because it was so painful. And we want
36:28
Speaker 1: them to grow up in a safer world. On the
36:31
Speaker 1: other hand, a part of that means to them, it'll
36:34
Speaker 1: just be a page in a history book. It will
36:36
Speaker 1: be a thing that happened and not something that they
36:39
Speaker 1: experienced to have these kinds of raw emotions with. And
36:42
Speaker 1: so it's okay for the kids to not feel it
36:45
Speaker 1: the way we do. We don't want them to. To
36:47
Speaker 1: have felt it the way we do, you had to
36:48
Speaker 1: have lived through it. And so we want them to live,
36:51
Speaker 1: you know, we want these things to be a little
36:53
Speaker 1: more abstract to them and not as visceral as it is.
36:58
Speaker 1: But at the same time to kind of recognize that
36:59
Speaker 1: it was akin to Pearl Harbor, this wake up of
37:03
Speaker 1: what a dangerous world we lived in and that being America,
37:07
Speaker 1: we think of ourselves as being terrific. People come here
37:09
Speaker 1: from all around the world to live their dreams. Who
37:11
Speaker 1: could hate us? well, alas, there are people in this
37:14
Speaker 1: world who do hate us and scapegoat us for all
37:16
Speaker 1: of their problems and will try to kill us in
37:18
Speaker 1: the name of their twisted vision of their religion.
37:22
Speaker 2: No, it's incredible. And you're right. They can never experience
37:25
Speaker 2: it the way we did. They just need to know
37:27
Speaker 2: what happened and what the lessons are from that. And
37:30
Speaker 2: we need to do a better job because what we
37:33
Speaker 2: saw after 10-7 on college campuses, some people weren't taught well,
37:37
Speaker 2: whether it was at college or before they got to college.
37:39
Speaker 2: And so Make sure your kids understand. And I think
37:42
Speaker 2: we've got a long way to go in that department.
37:45
Speaker 2: But in a moment, it's obviously been a very somber day.
37:47
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about some of the most inspirational
37:50
Speaker 2: things that we saw on or shortly after 9-11. All right, Jim,
37:59
Speaker 2: so many things that come to mind, and I hope
38:02
Speaker 2: I'm not stepping on your toes here. I'll mention a
38:04
Speaker 2: couple of them here. First of all, everything was so somber,
38:08
Speaker 2: of course, in the immediate aftermath of 9-11, people completely
38:13
Speaker 2: in shock, wondering if we're going to get hit again.
38:16
Speaker 2: Then you got to September 14th. There's the National Prayer
38:19
Speaker 2: Service at Washington National Cathedral, and President Bush gets up
38:23
Speaker 2: there and says, well, they attacked us at a time of...
38:27
Speaker 2: their choosing, and we're going to respond and we're going
38:30
Speaker 2: to finish this at a time of our choosing. And
38:32
Speaker 2: then he flies up to New York City, meets with
38:35
Speaker 2: a ton of family members who lost people, including first responders.
38:40
Speaker 2: Then he goes to ground zero. And of course, this
38:43
Speaker 2: moment with the bullhorn, he just had a short speech,
38:45
Speaker 2: kind of perfunctory, ready to go there. And then his
38:49
Speaker 2: instinct when the firefighters couldn't hear him is what lasted.
38:53
Speaker 2: This nation stands with the good people of New York
38:56
Speaker 2: City and New Jersey and Connecticut as we mourn the
39:01
Speaker 2: loss of thousands.
39:03
Speaker 1: Of our citizens.
39:07
Speaker 2: I can hear you.
39:14
Speaker 1: I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you.
39:18
Speaker 1: And the people... And the people who knocked these buildings
39:25
Speaker 1: down will hear all of us soon.
39:30
Speaker 2: Jim, there was also the moment where the first responders
39:32
Speaker 2: raised the flag at Ground Zero in almost like an
39:35
Speaker 2: Iwo Jima-type moment, which was incredibly powerful. I had a colleague,
39:39
Speaker 2: still one of my colleagues, went to Walmart because everyone
39:42
Speaker 2: wanted an American flag at that point, and there were
39:44
Speaker 2: not nearly enough on the shelves. And so There was
39:47
Speaker 2: a package that had several small American flags and people
39:50
Speaker 2: were opening the package after they bought it and handing
39:53
Speaker 2: out individual flags to other people who desperately wanted one.
39:56
Speaker 2: To understand how this galvanized the nation, even for a
39:59
Speaker 2: short time, was awesome.
40:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like watching that video now, 25 years later,
40:03
Speaker 1: still gives me chills. When we're looking at like, you know,
40:07
Speaker 1: things that were inspiring from that, I think Beamer and
40:10
Speaker 1: Let's Roll, the message. But I thought about, if you
40:14
Speaker 1: were writing the history of Al-Qaeda, and many people have,
40:16
Speaker 1: you know, historians and scholars and analysts, really the last
40:21
Speaker 1: consequential victory of Al-Qaeda was when the plane hit the Pentagon.
40:25
Speaker 1: Everything after that was downhill. They couldn't even get the
40:27
Speaker 1: fourth one, right? Like, you know, Flight 93, as we've
40:30
Speaker 1: mentioned several times during this podcast, saved God knows how
40:33
Speaker 1: many lives. But it was like, you know, they attacked
40:35
Speaker 1: us in a way that we, you know, I know
40:37
Speaker 1: there'd been this talk about Operation Bojinka, but I think that,
40:39
Speaker 1: I believe that one was bombings, if I remember correctly.
40:42
Speaker 1: The idea of hijacking a plane and then using it
40:44
Speaker 1: as a flying bomb to attack other people, as far
40:48
Speaker 1: as I know, had never really been done before. And
40:50
Speaker 1: it was, you know, on the one hand, we can go, ah,
40:54
Speaker 1: you know, look at the airports before 9-11. Things were
40:57
Speaker 1: so insecure and all that stuff. But, like, really, this
41:00
Speaker 1: was not something that had been thought about because the
41:03
Speaker 1: thinking was that, like, well, yeah, if you use a
41:05
Speaker 1: hijacked plane as a flying bomb and fly it into something, well,
41:08
Speaker 1: then the hijacker dies and the idea of a suicide bomber,
41:12
Speaker 1: the idea of a suicidal terrorist was fairly rare up
41:15
Speaker 1: until then. Now, it's kind of cliché. Now, it's no
41:20
Speaker 1: longer so original. But back then, this was... So, you
41:23
Speaker 1: think about it, Al-Qaeda had the element of surprise for
41:26
Speaker 1: 90 minutes or so. The people on Flight 93 managing
41:34
Speaker 1: to get through on their cell phones or the phones
41:37
Speaker 1: that were on the plane, hearing about what had happened,
41:40
Speaker 1: and recognizing either we rush the cockpit or lots of
41:45
Speaker 1: other innocent people on the ground die, never mind us.
41:48
Speaker 1: And that recognition of there is next to zero chance
41:51
Speaker 1: we come out of this okay. The question is, do
41:53
Speaker 1: we die with a lot of other people who didn't
41:55
Speaker 1: deserve to die? Or do we try to do something
41:57
Speaker 1: to stop it? That's the American spirit right there. There
42:00
Speaker 1: was that sense of like, if that's the sacrifice we
42:03
Speaker 1: have to make, we're going to do it. And as
42:05
Speaker 1: far as people have been able to piece together what
42:07
Speaker 1: happened in the cockpit, That is what happened. That the
42:10
Speaker 1: sense of, you know, that it ended up like a
42:13
Speaker 1: field in the middle of, an empty field in the
42:14
Speaker 1: middle of Pennsylvania was not on the list of Al
42:15
Speaker 1: Qaeda targets that day. And, you know, so it's just,
42:19
Speaker 1: so the interesting thing is on the one hand, if
42:20
Speaker 1: you're an Al Qaeda enthusiast, first of all, please die.
42:24
Speaker 1: But second of all, if you're an Al Qaeda enthusiast,
42:27
Speaker 1: you know, on the one hand, 9-11 is the day
42:29
Speaker 1: of your greatest victory over the great Satan, blah, blah, blah.
42:33
Speaker 1: But also it's the, by mid-morning, things are going wrong.
42:37
Speaker 1: you don't, you've lost your fourth one and you have
42:40
Speaker 1: awakened the sleeping tiger, as they said after Pearl Harbor,
42:44
Speaker 1: or awakened a sleeping giant, pardon me. And you all
42:47
Speaker 1: of a sudden have a really angry America coming at you.
42:51
Speaker 1: And I have, you'd like to think that no other
42:55
Speaker 1: terrorist group looked at that at 9-11 and said, wow,
42:59
Speaker 1: that worked out great for Al-Qaeda. We should try to
43:01
Speaker 1: do that too. And I just kind of look at,
43:03
Speaker 1: you know, something that's, uh, also been kind of lingering
43:07
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind. September 12th, we kind
43:12
Speaker 1: of figured... So I mentioned how I was waiting for
43:14
Speaker 1: a wire service. One of my papers was the Banger
43:16
Speaker 1: Daily News. And I kind of would sometimes darkly joke,
43:19
Speaker 1: I hope Banger is still there in the morning. In
43:21
Speaker 1: the sense of, we didn't know if there was a
43:23
Speaker 1: suitcase nuke somewhere. By the way, there were reports of
43:26
Speaker 1: suitcase nukes and that Al-Qaeda had gotten their hands on
43:28
Speaker 1: a Russian nuclear weapon. None of them turned out to
43:30
Speaker 1: be true, but these are the sorts of things that
43:33
Speaker 1: were being sorted through by the intelligence community. George Tenet
43:36
Speaker 1: has a, in his autobiography, talks about something they organized
43:39
Speaker 1: called the Threat Matrix. Because at that point to the U.S.
43:41
Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, tens of thousands of tips are coming in.
43:45
Speaker 1: And the vast majority of them are nonsense, or the
43:47
Speaker 1: vast majority of them are just chatter. You know, this
43:50
Speaker 1: sense of people in online forum, we're going to strike
43:53
Speaker 1: at the great Satan, blah, blah, blah. And that there
43:58
Speaker 1: was just this unbelievable amount of data that had to
44:00
Speaker 1: be sorted through. And they're trying to sort through This
44:03
Speaker 1: we consider high credibility. This we consider to be moderate credibility.
44:06
Speaker 1: And how do you allocate your resources? What kind of
44:09
Speaker 1: steps do you do? What do you investigate? What do
44:11
Speaker 1: you go after? Who do you take out? Stuff like that. And,
44:15
Speaker 1: you know, September 12th, we figured this was just the
44:18
Speaker 1: beginning of a lot more. And it really wasn't. You know,
44:20
Speaker 1: it was San Bernardino. There was a Pulse nightclub shooting.
44:23
Speaker 1: This is not the right day to pull out Disney
44:25
Speaker 1: to see to you. But you and I, you know,
44:27
Speaker 1: like we've seen terrorist, Islamist terrorist attacks since then. But
44:31
Speaker 1: really nothing happened on that scale. And I think a
44:33
Speaker 1: lot of us were afraid that day that this was
44:35
Speaker 1: the opening chapter of a really dark era in American
44:38
Speaker 1: history and human history. And Islamists struck, you know, Betlan, the,
44:44
Speaker 1: you know, theater shootings, you know, all over. Basically every
44:47
Speaker 1: major European capital has had a terrible Islamist terrorist attack.
44:51
Speaker 1: But nothing on the scale of 9-11. And that's because
44:54
Speaker 1: a lot of people put in a lot of work
44:55
Speaker 1: to keep us safe. And in that sense, mission accomplished.
44:59
Speaker 2: And I think it's been said this week, and I
45:01
Speaker 2: think it's worth highlighting that, yes, you absolutely mourn the ones.
45:05
Speaker 1: Who were lost.
45:06
Speaker 2: That is perfectly appropriate. And you honor the heroes who
45:09
Speaker 2: responded both that day, whether it's police, fire, other first responders,
45:14
Speaker 2: and of course, those who wore the uniform in the
45:16
Speaker 2: military for the next 20 years in the wars that followed.
45:19
Speaker 2: And in my work at the American Veterans Center, I've
45:21
Speaker 2: spoken with people who survived the towers, like Dan McLaughlin.
45:25
Speaker 2: I interviewed one guy who was above the impact site
45:27
Speaker 2: in Tower Two and somehow raced through three or four
45:30
Speaker 2: floors of flames and came out on the other side.
45:34
Speaker 2: Talked with firefighters, talked with obviously many different members of
45:37
Speaker 2: the military who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. And so
45:41
Speaker 2: kind of the thought that's been rattling around in a
45:43
Speaker 2: couple of spaces online has been not only do you
45:45
Speaker 2: honor those people and thank those people, you strive to
45:48
Speaker 2: be like those people. What do you do in that situation?
45:50
Speaker 1: How do you respond?
45:52
Speaker 2: And help other people in that situation. And that's certainly
45:54
Speaker 2: a goal to live up to as well. So, Jim,
45:57
Speaker 2: not an easy day to look back, but it's an
45:59
Speaker 2: important thing to do. So hopefully lighter fare on Monday.
46:02
Speaker 2: I can't imagine it being quite this dark.
46:04
Speaker 1: Look, you know, no matter how bad things go for
46:06
Speaker 1: the Jets and Bears, it's not going to be as
46:08
Speaker 1: depressing as this episode, folks.
46:10
Speaker 2: No, but an important conversation. And thank you. Thank you
46:12
Speaker 2: to everyone who's worn the uniform in all those different
46:15
Speaker 2: situations on that day and since in protection of those
46:19
Speaker 2: they serve. For Jim Garrity, I'm Greg Karumbas. Thanks so
46:22
Speaker 2: much for being with us and join us again Monday
46:23
Speaker 2: for the next Three Martini Lunch.