Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Daleks’ Masterplan (10/12)

Transcript

Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Daleks’ Masterplan (10/12) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
I'm so drunk. Welcome back to a hamster with a
0:42
blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast proof
0:46
conclusive that you can talk for 10 episodes about what 11.
0:50
Now about a single Doctor Who story and they'll get bored.
0:55
I am here with, I mean, you're basically co-host for this story
1:00
Jason Thompson. Say hello, Jason, hello Jason,
1:05
Jason. We are back to moving pictures
1:07
again. I'm very excited.
1:09
We are Yes, after several episodes of reconstructions
1:14
using random photographs because there are no Telly snaps from
1:17
this story. Cgi-animated Daleks, I mean,
1:23
that's how you can warm it to other episodes, It's probably
1:25
isn't the episode. I would choose to have moving.
1:30
No, but it does contain two very nice pieces of Direction which
1:34
which will come to. You're talking about that
1:36
transition. Aren't you from the dark?
1:37
The light reflecting off, the Daleks of the sun.
1:40
That's the one. Yes, one.
1:42
So you can tell me the other one in episode.
1:45
Okay, I will. All right, well, that really
1:48
need, let's watch watch this episode called escapes which
1:53
why? because, Yeah, we might just
2:02
pull this out already. I just mostly he's and it does
2:06
kind of make sense because it's the doctor.
2:11
This is why the doctor switch the Tardis that monks Tardis to
2:13
a Police telephone box and so on and so forth.
2:17
So I well then escapes which lets go in 3 2 1 I got so now
2:29
we're going to get to see these fabulous Egyptian sets like in
2:32
need as they're supposed to be seen and also pretty catchy fire
2:37
as well. I'll seem to remember there is a
2:41
bit of it where it's not really a fault Massacre but yes, To be
2:48
feeling awesome. Help many people in their survey
2:53
with it, a whole bunch of Egyptians in the last episode,
2:56
our only shot Franta Sands F on already.
3:00
So Outlets one thing I have noticed with these episodes
3:06
exist on these Loose Cannon reconstructions, is that the
3:10
quality of them in comparison to the DVDs that came out later?
3:14
There is a gulf between them isn't there?
3:15
They've they haven't been cleaned up yet.
3:18
They haven't been cleaned up yet.
3:20
No and partly. That's because when they first
3:25
did these reconstructions that was before the DVDs existed?
3:30
So there will be cleaned up versions.
3:32
Remember, on the BBC VHS is that were out the The production the
3:38
VHS is, were basically just grabbed the nearest copy that
3:40
exists and wacky on a video. That's not what the clearing it
3:43
up. So you get a whole variety of
3:44
different qualities and that's assuming that the big episode of
3:49
actually been released officially if it hadn't the
3:51
quality was even worse because it was a bootleg copy of the
3:54
episode in question. But also when the DVD started to
3:58
come out and lose Cannon started and the other reconstruction
4:02
people started putting their Recons on DVD instead of VHS
4:08
They put out a statement on their website which said we are
4:11
not issuing clean up versions of these episodes because you know
4:15
we want you to support the BBC DVD releases so you don't get
4:21
the cleaned up episodes on the Loose Cannon Recons at all.
4:25
And in fact some of the little ones that were issued after the
4:29
episodes in question had been released, they didn't include
4:31
the existing episodes at all. So the Loose Cannon episode
4:34
reconstruction of the invasion. For example, Only has episodes,
4:38
1 & 4, 1 & 4 in it. Well, I mean, I absolutely get
4:41
that they can like release their reconstructions of episodes that
4:46
are missing because it's essentially a completely
4:48
original piece of work with the soundtracks.
4:50
Like, I'm surprised that they were allowed to put the existing
4:54
episodes in there as well. Yeah, what is this?
4:59
A the I think we talked about it when we machines and unknown
5:02
it's effectively the BBC turned a blind eye because we're not
5:06
selling these things right? Yeah that might be amazing.
5:10
You sent off a blank DVD or a blank VHS cassette or with a
5:14
self-addressed envelope. Remember those which that and
5:18
those into blue Peter all the time.
5:21
But you sent them off with a stamped addressed envelope and
5:24
they sent it back to you for no charge.
5:26
What service, so they weren't making any profit out of this
5:29
and so the BBC just turned a blind eye to it because you
5:33
know, they weren't harming any sales.
5:35
And so when when it came to DVD and what have you?
5:39
That's why they said specifically on their website,
5:41
you know, we're not doing cleanup of the episodes.
5:43
We're not doing DVD quality episodes on these Because by the
5:47
BBC one's they put them all out. Now on Lost in Time in 2004 so
5:53
just by that if you want the cleaned up episodes but ours are
5:56
Going to be the dodgy VHS versions.
5:58
We just basically just copied the VHS version of the Recon
6:00
onto a DVD for you cutest to them.
6:03
Not only is this a non profit making Enterprises.
6:06
It's just a labor of love that. They're not making a penny out,
6:09
but there are also you know, still trying to send people to
6:12
BBC is why I my respect for Loose Cannon off talking to you
6:17
has gone through the roof. There were.
6:19
Yeah, they've got a really good job on the reconstructions and
6:22
the way they issued them and everything.
6:24
So he said you're not As funny as we're talking about loose
6:27
cannon, reconstructions on the one episode.
6:30
That is not a reconstruction. That's very, very true.
6:36
Yes, we actually have this episode.
6:38
Why we have this episode in particular who knows?
6:41
But we do you have. Did you just see that move a bit
6:44
of many ago? The sheer fucking goal of
6:46
Maverick Chen. He shoved that Daleks eyestalk
6:49
out of his face. That was the bit of ever be.
6:52
I was going to say I'm glad we have this on home video because
6:56
that It's a fantastic piece. It's not in the script for him
6:58
to do that. With something the camera
6:59
script, certainly, I think that was a agreed upon by the
7:02
director and rehearsal, and everything.
7:03
But yeah, it just swiping a Daleks eyestalk.
7:07
I'm very surprised you didn't swing around and blast him to
7:10
death, you know. Yeah.
7:13
So here's an alternative first. Stop to era, featuring Peter
7:18
Butterworth as the doctor and his companions.
7:20
Steve and Sarah would have been a very different show.
7:26
It would have been a very I didn't think it would have
7:27
survived. Quite think about to worth is
7:30
great but you know what beep everything's great and that
7:34
shirt could look for him. Oh my God, let the bugs
7:41
scurrying about and then he's just been found by a bunch of
7:43
Daleks. Oh, I love garlic in the 60s
7:49
episodes, the way they move all the time.
7:53
It's is always suggesting there. Something in there, isn't it?
7:56
It's all twitching and you know it's twitching, it's moving on
8:00
the spot. It's moving.
8:01
Its I a bit twitching? An arm etcetera later episodes.
8:04
They tend to get about that. And they just sit rather in
8:07
Mobile, which of those free as free and death to, the Daleks
8:11
are all jiggling about very excitedly.
8:13
Then I got that one that apparently was full of cement.
8:16
And the fights like about so he's completely stationary.
8:21
Yeah I was just thinking about that precise moment.
8:24
That was that was yeah greatest stuck, one of the old technique
8:28
in there for her just for that one scene to making the nice
8:31
thick or something a bit but no don't even so I think Insight
8:34
out on the on the commentary starts.
8:36
I had to kind of Mark Lee Brian why are you poking with a stick
8:38
or something? You know I think this is a
8:42
little weird seeing here because then the monk says that he's
8:45
He's brought Steve and Sarah as hostages to try and make him.
8:48
Stop himself from Full Of Me exterminated.
8:50
Yeah. And Chen says, oh yes, the
8:52
doctors loyalty to his friends is beyond question.
8:55
It's one of those moments which makes sense to us as the viewer
8:58
because we know the doctor will go.
8:59
After sieving Terror, we know that, but if you think about
9:03
what they've actually been through, the last time I checked
9:07
in the Daleks saw the doctor, and Steve and Sarah, the doctor
9:11
appeared to use Stephen as a sacrificial lamb, really?
9:16
Hand over the core because he just gave him the coins head,
9:19
right? You go and talk to the Daleks
9:21
and give him the call and he did get shot.
9:23
It just happen to have a force field around him.
9:25
So I'm not quite sure why they think the doctor would be so
9:28
loyal to his friends after witnessing that, that's the only
9:30
thing they've seen, they don't know him.
9:33
So webisodes of Comedy hijinks and a change of riots in saying,
9:37
I think somebody's got Lost in Translation, you know, I think
9:41
so we just had that beer Direction there from the Sun to
9:44
the Sun reflecting Off the data now that it's moments.
9:49
Like that, that make me think that if these episodes came back
9:53
into the archive, again that they would be like terrific
9:56
moments of Direction like that throughout the entire story
9:59
because that's what that is this for being put into that, they
10:03
saying Peter Moffitt point in a directory of five.
10:06
Yeah, camera five people and just letting the max, you know,
10:10
Now you're a sturdy, right? And I think that the recovery of
10:13
episode 2 really showed that there's a lot of visual stuff in
10:16
episode 2 in the direction of that episode which we never
10:19
would have gotten the audio. You know.
10:23
Just like the irony of nabek Chen saying perhaps, I will have
10:26
those who knows my plate as he happens to be standing behind a
10:28
bunch of bars, he's in jail, but that's kind of that's direction.
10:36
That was put in there by the director who obviously saw the
10:39
script for think then The understand the set designer.
10:42
Actually, let's do this. It's the kind of thing that
10:46
makes me think that getting some of these episodes back.
10:48
As you say, would show up. A lot of visual stuff that we
10:51
just have no idea about before you Jason, did you say you're
10:53
the handbook to hands? The house Tamsin Walker has
10:57
have, indeed never done the reins for episode 8, 9 or 10.
11:02
And on the ratings for any of them have.
11:04
I let's have a quick look. I did call them up earlier.
11:07
So let me just have a look. I think they're pretty
11:11
consistent. I think they hover around the 9
11:13
million I think throughout the story.
11:14
But why don't you tell me? You are indeed, correct.
11:20
So I'll run through all 12, just go fun because I've got a little
11:23
front of me, but episode 1 had 9 point 1 million, the success.
11:28
So, who went up to nine point eight and episode 3, when up to
11:32
10.30, that was the high point of the of the cereal episode 49
11:38
point. Five episode five, nine point,
11:40
nine episode six. Nine point one.
11:43
So yeah, they're hovering very nicely between the 9 and 10
11:46
million mark Episode 7 went down to 7.9 but it was Christmas day.
11:51
So are enough. And this isn't like do is where
11:56
the Christmas specials. Usually rack up more viewers
11:59
than the regular series because it's a special episode.
12:01
This was just I think back then, you know, people spend time with
12:04
their families. Possibly, you could be right.
12:08
Yes. And 9.6 with volcano or New
12:12
Year's Day. That's a good girl. 9.2 4
12:16
episode 9. This episode had 9.5 episode 11
12:21
had nine point eight and 12 had the lowest of the whole series
12:25
but apart from episode seven eight point six so it dropped a
12:28
million 1.2 million between episode 11 episode 12 such a
12:32
memorable episode as well. Although let's be honest 8.6 the
12:38
Savages and the gun fires and the war machines would look at
12:40
that and weep, you know? Indeed, but equally get some
12:45
people now saying what a disaster it was, that it lost
12:47
1.2 million viewers after week on week because, you know, 1
12:52
million 1.2 million Fewer viewers, that's that's terrible.
12:54
Because that's what exactly what some people are saying about the
12:57
new series ratings girls. Who question about Racing's
12:59
write, something. I've never quite understood, so
13:02
maybe you'd be able to explain it to me what they called Bob.
13:05
They Barb ratings. BRB BRB.
13:08
Yes. So they don't actually monitor
13:13
everybody do, they, they monitor a sample of people like enough
13:18
and across all demographics. So they've sort of got a Good
13:23
sample of what people within those demographics would be
13:27
watching, is that right? And then they multiply it by the
13:30
overall you of watching. Essentially, as far as I know,
13:35
that is how they do it. Yes.
13:36
So the whole thing could just be load of bollocks, they could
13:40
have it all wrong. It could be, it could be, it
13:45
does rather depend on them being certain that they have a decent
13:47
cross-section of the population to extrapolate this number from.
13:50
But you talk like that on the stage, but with the iPlayer,
13:57
that's like accurate numbers, isn't it?
13:59
Because how many people have actually physically watch that
14:01
online, with things like I play a, you get the actual you can
14:04
get the actual numbers. How many people have watched
14:07
this? And, you know, we're VI players,
14:09
it's a good enough to show you that.
14:12
Like up to two million people or two million watches Walker,
14:17
won't they in seven days sometimes so you know enough
14:21
people. Yeah yeah I mean that's my the
14:26
argument I always put on Twitter so every time Doctor Who ratings
14:30
guide down people go. Oh my God, it's the end of
14:32
everything. And It's just kind of, well,
14:37
people aren't people, viewing habits have changed the
14:40
available. Material is changed.
14:42
I mean, this is, you know, when they were like, there were three
14:45
channels at the time, this was shown.
14:47
Yeah. That was it.
14:49
You had BBC One. Not even sure.
14:52
You have bbc2 actually the night.
14:53
You move into channels at this point.
14:56
So yeah, there wasn't a lot of choice and you could only watch
14:59
when it was shown, you didn't have video recorders or anything
15:01
like that either. When you get to the end of who
15:05
in the 1980s, you had video recorded which were never
15:08
properly accounted for in the viewing figures at all.
15:12
So the viewing figures don't account for the fact that some
15:14
people possibly recorded it and watched it later but they were
15:18
only four channels. Then now there's God knows how
15:21
many channels and not only have you got even even since Doctor
15:25
Who came back, you know, 2005 you had cable TV and digital TV
15:30
and things like that. But there wasn't much in the way
15:33
of on-demand and there were no streaming services.
15:36
You know, it was kind of it's there.
15:39
It's still showing a scheduled program run, you know.
15:43
So if you want to watch something you have to catch it
15:46
at the time or the place ones were the big thing.
15:50
Then they have this other channel, you press the red
15:53
button or you can watch it in our later and that was.
15:57
But now you've got on-demand streaming services.
16:00
You can watch what the hell you like.
16:02
The hell you like, can I walk? I got so far but I'm going to
16:07
anyway. I really like it.
16:09
Now, don't get me wrong. I think it's kind of its kind of
16:11
great for a new fan to be able to come in and have the entirety
16:15
of classic from brick box and the entirety of new from the BBC
16:20
iPlayer. But there's no on like there's
16:23
no on the Night TV anymore is there Because, you know, you can
16:27
watch it before used to be like, artwork.
16:30
What is it? You do, you know, you don't want
16:32
Ali. Gone are the days when 25
16:34
million people were watching EastEnders on Christmas Day.
16:38
Because if they didn't watch it, the it.
16:42
No. It's a whole different
16:44
experience. Now watching any television
16:46
series and it is notable when you look at the viewing figures
16:48
for the new series, which are available to the viewing figures
16:52
across the border down, the anything that's pulling in the
16:54
really high viewing figures. Now, these days tends to be live
16:59
TV shows, especially view of out sing like strictly and but
17:03
Bake-Off things like Bake-Off is a fun one because it's the only
17:06
time Channel 4 is produced shot up in the ratings to match the
17:09
BBC and that's it. Really Stove for usually poppers
17:14
well below couple of year, two to three million for its viewers
17:17
and then baked off happened and they can like 9 10, 11 million
17:19
viewers for just for that one show.
17:21
And who want switches back over again, doesn't it?
17:24
Just show that channel for can do it?
17:27
That's the interesting thing about that is that they
17:29
absolutely can hit those highs. So is that people are choosing
17:32
not to watch the usual fare on Channel 4.
17:37
Okay man, but to be fair, they did import the Bake-Off from the
17:40
BBC. So it had a quite a loyal
17:41
following already, but it's only got it.
17:43
So, so yeah. Back back here.
17:48
This was By Appointment, TV wasn't it like you've watched
17:51
all the words if you weren't if you want sack in front of your
17:54
Telly at 525 or whatever. On that Saturday, you missed it
17:59
end of and I've the amount of people I've spoken to on this
18:02
now because, you know, I've kind of got a demographic that come
18:05
onto this. Not it's kinda the Third T250
18:09
kind of Doctor Who fan and the amount of people that have said,
18:12
well, you know, I never saw that.
18:14
My first experience of that was the target novel.
18:17
That's just Unthinkable Now, isn't it?
18:19
But your first experience with episode would be a book
18:22
interpretation of the episode. Yep, it is, it's amazing.
18:28
It's amazing that even with the missing episodes, every episode
18:32
of Doctor Who has been released on some kind of home media more
18:36
than once, Yeah. Every single one because all the
18:39
audios, all the missing, story audios have been released at
18:41
least twice Not only that because there's all these
18:45
fan-made reconstructions and now they're animating.
18:47
Some of them have been animated a few of them as well, but every
18:51
other episode has been on VHS and DVD and now it's coming to
18:55
Blu-ray. Quite a few of them were issued
18:57
more than once on VHS. Several of them are in issued
18:59
more than once on DVD. So if we got the soda bottles,
19:04
we have bought these stories. I mean, I don't know, and it's
19:07
depressing amount of money was spent, you know, it is in some
19:12
respects. Yes, because I'm now I'm now.
19:14
The Blu-rays of all the stories that we have on DB.
19:20
I mean, but I'm not buying the Blue Jays for the episodes.
19:22
I'm buying it for the extra content.
19:24
So I want you think you spent on Doctor Who Too much.
19:32
There are thousands of pounds. I'm sure we are better.
19:36
Honestly, I probably could have bought a house or put down a
19:39
decent deposit. Yeah, yeah.
19:42
Thousands of thousands of pounds of gold on Doctor Who media over
19:45
the years. Oh my God, no, we told all over
19:48
that fight sequence. You know, we have and now here's
19:51
a Dalek, being piled up the stones around and I think they
19:54
should have done more with that but you know what?
19:57
Actually was taking note while we were talking then of that
20:00
fire sequence. It was way better than I
20:02
remembered. There's actually there's where
20:05
the Daleks are advancing on the, on the Egyptians and you can see
20:09
both sides, it kind of swings around.
20:12
Oh he's in a tiny corner of a BBC Studio but he's still trying
20:16
to make it like even even his action.
20:19
Obviously what he wants, you know, like sequence was shot on
20:22
film, it was pretty filmed so that was really moving.
20:26
Okay, maybe that's why Why it looks so good.
20:30
I mean, obviously, what he wants is, you know, War and Peace or
20:34
some massive, you know, set-piece, even a tailing.
20:37
There's there are, you know, a lack of resources.
20:41
Or he is in a hurry. Something that would later write
20:44
will run with quite a lot. The doctor is nicked.
20:47
A tardis component from one Tardis and used it in these
20:50
going to use it in his own. This is years before Peter
20:52
grimwade made it his thing can I what I found I Solaris when Rob
20:57
Sherman said the reason why time fly episode 4 is, the worst
21:02
episode of Doctor, Who is essentially the climax is the
21:05
doctor and the master swapping b a Lego.
21:09
Yeah. Okay.
21:10
All the video is I mean, I still love time flight, it's got it
21:15
all, it's a kite, a nice feel good, kind of story.
21:18
It makes me feel. It's comfortable as far as
21:22
doctor and even really in some respects television drama goes,
21:25
it is Pool. He needs story that gave us.
21:30
Angela Clifford is worthy of Praise, okay?
21:35
It wants us to try out the new Indonesian restaurant is she's
21:40
great. Okay, so this is a cliche now.
21:44
He's going to get in his Tardis. And what's the doctor done?
21:47
Doctor has changed the monk starters into a Police telephone
21:50
box. Jose is so he can't get away but
21:54
wherever he goes it'll be a police box.
21:57
He's whilst it will change but he's nicked.
21:59
The dimension, a directional unit.
22:01
Oh, that's right, you end up on a snowy Planet, doesn't he?
22:04
Yeah. So, and they build a little, a
22:07
little part of the set as this. Nobody just for like one thing I
22:12
do admire their ambition, in this story, you know, they do
22:15
have a lot of ambition in this story.
22:17
Apartment was on point for, although we have just missed his
22:20
fat, his fabulous flat for having to hand over the real
22:22
turanian core to magic magic Chen.
22:26
Well, he is mad. Because I'm a magic performance.
22:28
So that's what he's talking about.
22:30
He's gotten so used to breaking down the fourth wall.
22:32
Now he's commenting on Kevin Stone, I see what you mean about
22:37
these Darlings. There I sticks are all over the
22:38
place. Yeah, constantly moving and
22:42
twitching I tell you love as well.
22:44
There's a wonderful height discrepancy between mavic.
22:46
Chen on the Daleks he Towers over though, doesn't he?
22:50
Yes, I really like the guy we got the short Daleks I can't
22:55
remember asshole what the Cliffhanger is for this episode
22:58
laughing sighing, there's explosion in the Tardis or
23:00
something in there. Yeah, you'll find out soon
23:03
enough. Yeah basically yeah, it's not
23:06
that look Beyond him there. That melted in edge of
23:08
Destruction. That's the one.
23:13
Presumably, he would have paid it sometime shortly after
23:15
otherwise it's not a lot of point in keeping around this.
23:18
Yes, it's the same one. It's a rare at least momentum of
23:21
a pedestal and liking the chase where it was on the floor.
23:23
For some reason was they forgot to put you on some kind of
23:25
pedestal taking that to the Antiques Roadshow.
23:27
Will this clock face was melted at the beginning of the solar
23:30
system being formed. What's it worth?
23:34
It's Unique. You know, but I do wonder, you
23:46
know, if the idea of this Terry Nation dialects story in
23:51
America, the dark series had legs, you know, because this
23:55
don't really run out of steam and this is the equivalent of
23:57
like a season. It's me, it is.
24:01
I mean, it's three months worth of Doctor Who with Daleks, I
24:05
don't know if you've ever listened to like Dalek Empire,
24:08
the big finish series. I've listened to the first one.
24:11
It's very good. Really was, I don't be afraid by
24:16
Nick breaks but it is very good. Don't write him either.
24:21
You're gonna get him. No, I think I think he's very
24:26
cute. I think he's a superb.
24:28
Director of audio and I think he is a capable writer.
24:32
I just don't think he's one of the strongest I have.
24:33
But when he's my invested in what he's writing.
24:37
He can really do. Yeah.
24:38
And he's investing in the Daleks obviously.
24:42
Yes. I'll pay it back with the crying
24:48
that. He's gonna.
24:50
We'll have our Reckoning doctor. One day, it will take decades
24:55
and a whole new medium of different actors, but we will
24:59
have our Reckoning, just surprising, you know, given all
25:02
of those callbacks in the 80s that we never got the Monk.
25:07
Yeah, whatever tooted. I do not know where of but
25:13
someone listening may know more than we do on that subject.
25:18
What's the issue now? They are on the run again.
25:23
Now you've got to go back. They've got to hope that the
25:25
dialect, they've got to hope the monks.
25:28
Directional unit will allow them to follow the Daleks back to
25:31
Kemble and hope they can stop. The Daleks from assembling the
25:34
time Destructor. Let's hang on a second.
25:38
So, is the inference. Another doctor's directional
25:40
unit is just always Hell, I'd never works.
25:42
That's why they always end up Here, There and Everywhere.
25:45
Yeah, the Tardis doesn't work. So he's switched it for the
25:48
monks directional, you need to try and control where the Tardis
25:51
bows for the first time in the whole history of the show.
25:55
And that gives a genuine excuse to have the monk in this story.
25:58
Beyond hijinks, doesn't it like a pla Grace?
26:02
Yep, little bit of leak it. Make sense Weller.
26:09
Okay, we've we've had some comedy.
26:13
We've been back into the past. Where could this story possibly
26:16
go for the final two episodes? It's got to go back to Campbell.
26:21
It's got to go back to the Daleks and their plans for the
26:24
universal Conquest because the Daleks have the Terranea and
26:26
they're not going to hang around, and I've only got one
26:29
thing to say to you Jason Which is it goes back to gamble.
26:36
Take it back. I'm Bob.
26:37
That's a darling. That is where we are going next.