Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 77. RFP Crossover Event with the Youth and Culture Podcast - How Can the Youth Affect the Culture?

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77. RFP Crossover Event with the Youth and Culture Podcast - How Can the Youth Affect the Culture? · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
I do not mean to be mean, I do mean to be mad.
0:05
Those that criticize this kind of preacher.
0:07
They don't like Authority. If you ain't got the King James,
0:11
you ain't got, hey, you don't have a King James, you don't
0:14
have a Bible. It'd be surprised then don't go
0:20
to sleep when I'm talking. Hey, hey, hey, don't, don't
0:22
don't you lay your head but I'm I'm important.
0:25
I'm somebody, I love you. You know, I love you.
0:28
And I convince you, I love you. You better said, you better not
0:31
your hideous or come up with her to stay awake.
0:35
You listen to me? I still believe if you have cold
0:40
day in Hell, before I get my family through, I'm a preacher.
0:54
When you got dressed today, you dressed deity.
1:01
This is the for Freedom podcast, a podcast that is part of the
1:05
RFP Network that seeks to bring freedom in Christ from the
1:09
spiritual abuse of legalism. Now, here are your hosts, John
1:13
hollifield, and James secret and so fundamentalism is designed to
1:22
unpack the idea of authority from scripture.
1:24
The problem with that is that that's not the defining
1:27
principle in Scripture. It is a part of the defining
1:30
principle in. Scripture is love.
2:01
That sort of teacher, I don't want to give people just
2:14
a list of things they can start doing differently until they
2:17
have a heart out of which they're going to be doing those
2:20
things differently. I think bitterness is different
2:30
from her. I would say that hurt or even
2:33
abuse does not have to result in bitterness, welcome everybody to
2:42
the for Freedom podcast and we're rocking and rolling on our
2:46
sort of series that we're going through with interviewing
2:50
different hosts of the recovering, fundamentalist
2:53
podcast Network, and you get to hear last time, the ladies from
2:58
the growing grace. We had a wonderful time with
3:00
that podcast James, it was on today, John.
3:03
Well, we are excited. We've got two things coming up.
3:06
Before we jump into this. Great, great interview, we've
3:08
got the Coming up. That's why we're doing this
3:12
series of crossover events to promote that and so we've got
3:17
that coming up, November 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
3:19
Hope you can be there. Me and John will be there.
3:21
Unfortunately, our guys, from using culture, their schedule is
3:24
not going to allow them to be there, but they're still willing
3:27
to come and talk to us today. And then we've got the Israel
3:32
trip that I'm going to in January and so are you're going
3:36
to I think right? Yes.
3:38
Yeah, yeah, so we'll be there together.
3:40
I can't wait and I'm excited about that.
3:43
John just got back from Sing conference.
3:47
No, no the biblical counseling conference on Prince John, tell
3:51
us about how that was briefly with your endeavors.
3:55
There was fantastic we had a wonderful time got a lot of good
3:59
stuff in the breakout sessions which is why you go like unlike
4:04
most conferences the plenaries or like he take it or leave it
4:07
but it's the breakout sessions where the good stuff happens.
4:10
But this one was different, the break out, the, the plenary
4:12
sessions were fantastic. They talked about the decay of
4:15
human dignity and different areas between disabilities,
4:20
partiality or racism, and male and female gender roles and then
4:25
also, end-of-life and euthanasia issues.
4:29
It was, it was all fantastic, having a Biblical perspective
4:31
from it. So it was, it was a wonderful
4:33
time. Lot of free stuff, some brought
4:35
back a lot of books. Awesome, awesome.
4:38
Well, we're excited today. About our crossover event with,
4:42
you can Youth and culture. What kind of shallow person you
4:51
want to become recovering from fundamentalism or something?
4:56
They're everywhere. I think to myself, well, you
5:00
were just stupid to begin with if there's such a word you're
5:04
stupid, or now don't get flooded that like us and all you flubbed
5:10
up. People here come flood up
5:12
together. Guys, how are you guys doing
5:18
today? David here and Ryan Ryan from
5:21
North Carolina and David from Virginia, welcome to the show.
5:25
Give us an introduction of who you are and how you guys came
5:29
together. I see, I see David, David
5:31
pointed me for those of you who cannot see from the Airways.
5:35
So I guess I'll go first again, I'm Ryan Sebastian a little bit
5:40
about myself is that I'm a youth, pastor?
5:43
I and Morganton North Carolina, which is the wet Psy Of the
5:47
state. I've been here from my current
5:50
church for a little over a year and I was before that was doing
5:54
Ministry and Lumberton. North Carolina, which is on the
5:59
east side of the state was there for almost eight years.
6:03
Doing Ministry there and had no i.d., no plans of leaving.
6:06
But God course has different plans and where I'm at today,
6:11
loving it. I also do a lot of things, some
6:16
things with life. If way, I do own youth ministry
6:19
booster, which is their youth pastor Network arm of Life way,
6:24
I do a lot of what's called Soul Care or pastoral counseling to
6:28
pastors. There also lead a LED Mastermind
6:33
groups through that and just just living live doing Ministry.
6:37
I have, of course, married and have two kids.
6:40
My oldest is 10 almost 11 and my youngest Seven about to be eight
6:48
here and the next and December and this December, my kids are
6:53
wide and open Family Life and doing Ministry together, loving
6:58
it. And of course, looking forward
7:00
to see where God has no sex for us in Ministry.
7:03
Yeah, and I'm David Pinkham. I'm the youth.
7:06
Pastor up in Prince, George Virginia.
7:09
Been at my church for about five years, started full-time out in
7:12
Roanoke, Virginia. After I went to school Liberty
7:15
and got married, To my wife 11 years ago and we now have seven
7:20
children ages 10 to 10 months. So that's a fun little Gap.
7:25
We have their there are twins for those of you who are just
7:27
freaking out right now doing the math but it's been a, it's been
7:32
a wild ride for the last 11 years.
7:34
Just seeing how Lord has been working.
7:36
I'm also of the opinion that God's plans are very much more
7:40
interesting than ours and I'm actually in the middle of a
7:45
transition point. With my church and Word of Life,
7:50
we have been through the training and the approval
7:54
process. So my wife and I are technically
7:56
officially Word of Life missionaries and we will be
7:59
transitioning. Eventually from my church, as
8:02
the youth, pastor back to beg being a regular old church
8:05
member and then being a missionary to the eastern and
8:07
northern part of Virginia. So I get to serve, I'll get to
8:12
serve churches all over the place on the eastern half of
8:14
Virginia and It was pointed out to me the other day.
8:19
That that's where all the blue spots are.
8:23
So it's going to be interesting but the Lord has been moving.
8:27
We're currently in the what's the old old version of saying
8:32
I'm in the deputation phase right now?
8:35
So that's what we're doing. And the church has allowed me to
8:38
stay on full time. So I can keep feeding my kids,
8:40
which is, I'm very thankful for that.
8:42
But I'm looking forward to the conversation today and just talk
8:45
with you guys. Yeah, you've got a seven kids so
8:48
you meet the minimum criteria to be a missionary to make sure you
8:52
got plenty kids for that. Total with us for here.
8:55
We've got 16, kids representative from four of us.
8:59
Wow, you got a small church just between us for and that's crazy.
9:06
But seven, you've got to Ryan. I've got three John has four.
9:10
So, yeah, we're me and John are done having kids.
9:13
I don't know about you guys. Yes, okay, done 100%.
9:19
Yeah. So, all right.
9:21
Let's see. How did you guys meet, what?
9:23
Okay, you're from North Carolina from Lumberton or where you were
9:27
at 48 years, David, you were up in Virginia Word of Life.
9:31
Southern Baptist had this well connection happen.
9:35
So actually we were both from North Carolina but we never met.
9:38
We actually met because we both were students at Liberty
9:41
University and we were both serving in the youth ministry at
9:44
the same church. And I think we just met like any
9:47
youth leaders meeting probably and then eventually we both got
9:51
put in Editions of more of like an administrative role in
9:54
different rooms, because they had to split their youth group
9:56
up into different rooms because of the number of kids and the
9:59
size of the rooms we had. And so it was like middle
10:03
school, then 9th, and 10th and 11th and 12th and I think Ryan
10:07
was the admin for the 11th and 12th grade room.
10:10
Well, ninth and tenth or two years and then one year I was 11
10:13
to 12. All right.
10:14
So they probably moved you to 11th 12th and then put me in
10:17
Emily and for 9th and 10th that last year and then we both
10:21
started. For full-time youth, pastor
10:23
positions at the same time. So we would swap churches.
10:26
Like, if he went and interviewed and they were like, now he would
10:29
give me the church. That's what and vice versa, and
10:34
I think we did, we find churches around the same time.
10:37
Or did you get? I think you got two years first.
10:40
It was, it was, if I remember correctly, was around the same
10:42
time. I think that we were both in the
10:43
process in the interview process, pretty in-depth lie at
10:48
other churches around the same time.
10:51
I think, I Why? My church may be moved.
10:53
A little bit more quicker than yours.
10:55
And so I was able to get out move a little bit before you but
10:59
it was about this. It was about the exact same
11:01
time. Yeah.
11:02
And the one of the funny parts of that is that was that our
11:05
first churches. So I wasn't mine for three and a
11:07
half years. He was a his 47 and the church.
11:09
I'm at now Ryan actually interviewed at TenPoint point.
11:15
That is true. Yeah.
11:16
So interviewed and they and and surprisingly, they said no.
11:24
So humble. Yeah.
11:26
So we've been, I mean, we've been friends for years and we
11:30
stayed connected over the years and then I forgot.
11:33
When did you start the podcast? Because I wasn't there at the
11:36
beginning. Yeah I started May 2009 to 2019.
11:42
Sorry. Okay. 2019 is when I, when I
11:45
started. Yeah, gotcha.
11:48
Great. Then he interviewed me for one
11:50
of the episodes and then I don't know when you asked me to
11:54
co-host, but the timing was impeccable.
11:58
Our first episode, we recorded together, we recorded it on like
12:02
a Monday or a Tuesday. Scheduled it to be released that
12:05
Friday, and that was the week of the shutdown's.
12:09
Wow. That's very similar to ours in
12:11
it. Really.
12:12
So, really what you're saying, And as you guys started the
12:14
shutdowns or wee-bey trendsetters for years man, it's
12:19
beer. See Theory heard.
12:22
Yeah, there's one for you. That's right.
12:24
You think culture did it so to the you guys run Youth and
12:27
culture and awesome to be a part of you guys with the network and
12:31
some other things that you've got going on, listen to several
12:33
episodes and enjoyed your guys's content.
12:36
So, today we're taking you through culture, and we're
12:38
taking a play on those words and we're talking about, how can the
12:41
youth affect the culture and So maybe this is more geared toward
12:45
student pastors or even students and just sort of talk through
12:49
this. But what is the goal, you've
12:51
been, you've had your podcast around for a while.
12:53
What do you see the gold your podcast?
12:56
What's your clientele? What do you see coming out of
12:59
this? This endeavor with the podcast
13:03
while I can just share of how I got started?
13:07
And we're trying to evolve into and I'll let David kind of time
13:09
I speak into it to the original. When I started the Podcast back
13:14
in 2019 was out of essentially because it was because the
13:19
county that were in had 300 plus churches across denominations,
13:26
all of them were by vocational youth pastors, except I thinking
13:30
about five or six which is insane to think about then.
13:35
So there was no way of really connecting a networking
13:40
together. So I was trying to think of
13:42
something that That can provide training and equipping pastors
13:48
and or County for a long-ass time.
13:50
I kept thinking I love listen to podcasts and so podcasts kept
13:54
coming to my mind. Start one, I kept saying, no, I
13:57
did feel like I was talented or good enough to start one and
14:00
finally, I just said, forget it. I'm just going to start it if it
14:03
crashes and burns it crashes and burns.
14:06
So I started first episode back in May 2000, 19 starting small,
14:14
And then of course, God, not thinking it was some going to as
14:17
big as it did God had different plans and took it and ran with
14:20
it. I've been able to talk to people
14:23
and interact with people. I'm never in a million years
14:25
thought I would have an opportunity to have a
14:27
conversation with and then, so, so back in late 2019, I
14:36
interviewed a same as Jodi Livingston.
14:39
He's part of the longer haul youth ministry, podcasts and One
14:43
thing I do is I always ask what, what do you recommend me doing
14:50
to improve for as a podcast host as having a podcast and one
14:56
thing? He said that one thing that
14:57
would help me tremendously is having a co-host having someone
15:01
to bounce back and forth things with someone to interact and
15:05
want to help you as you're planning and say, that's a great
15:09
idea. That's the something I've been
15:10
thinking about for a while and that so the spend some time
15:12
thinking about it. Thinking about who I would ask
15:16
and Dave is one of the first people that I thought of, first
15:20
of all, we've been friends for years.
15:21
And second of all, we have very similar views, theologically
15:28
biblically and Ministry wise. We have the same kind of similar
15:32
philosophies also mean him, we just bounce off each other very
15:37
easily. If for talking back and forth,
15:40
we're both ATD but the end. Surprised I haven't been
15:44
diagnosed yet. Yeah, me neither.
15:46
But we're pretty sure we're matey Dee but we're both add.
15:49
We're both. I think that's, I think that's a
15:53
prerequisite for any youth pastors to be a TD.
15:56
I have been called extra and I was, I don't know what happened,
16:00
but they were like, dude, you're so extra and I was like, well,
16:02
you can't be extroverted without being extra.
16:04
So, yeah, that's right. Yeah, so do it.
16:06
So I asked David, of course, David, David spend some time
16:10
praying about it and then British, I said, no, for a few.
16:12
You did say no. First.
16:14
And that's how I did not tell you to pray about it and then
16:18
tooth prayer and talking to. His wife is said, yes and forget
16:23
a first episode was right before covid, hit.
16:26
First episode, will be released, not long after that.
16:31
Is when everything is shut down and, and before that, of, for
16:36
that, as a podcast, we're doing very well, but the pockets
16:38
exploded and a lot of ways during, for us during covid, And
16:43
I really think part of that is because of just me and David are
16:48
interaction or chemistry that we have at our podcast.
16:52
I think that a lot of it had to do with it because again, nobody
16:55
wants to listen. Just me talk.
16:57
I'm boring. So I'm just me.
16:59
So I knew that going in. But anyway, so that's kind of
17:01
how let us and meetings, throw progress on the purpose of it
17:05
evolved. If I'll to originally to help
17:08
youth Pastors in my area that as we were growing, as a podcast,
17:12
and Oops, where the goal is essentially is to help youth
17:18
pastors and youth leaders be effective in the ministry.
17:22
But by also talking about topics that most youth either youth
17:29
conferences or youthpass youth. Specifically, youth podcast,
17:34
kind of straight away from not saying we don't we don't talk
17:38
about things that other people do is just a.
17:40
We try to hit topics of most people don't.
17:43
Or afraid either go diving into our.
17:45
We talked about one interviewing about photography and sexual
17:49
addiction and lining up that with pastors.
17:52
And that's something that I haven't heard and a youth.
17:55
Pastor at least popular youth, pastor podcast, and even
17:59
conferences for that matter. So we try to hit topics and most
18:02
people don't for the for engaging, youth culture gauging
18:06
youth ministry culture to better equip and better trained youth
18:10
pastors. Yeah, and one of the things,
18:13
That I got kind of got me excited about joining.
18:16
Was when I was in Roanoke, there was a group of Youth pastors,
18:19
we'd get together every month for lunch and we would eat for
18:22
an hour and then talk shop for an hour and usually one of them
18:24
brought a devotional to do and share with the guys just to
18:26
encourage one another and there was a lot of camaraderie and it
18:30
was easy to get together and even plan events with each
18:34
other's youth groups and just kind of work together as as the
18:38
the church in. Roanoke and not just are each
18:40
individual churches and And then when I got out to where I'm at
18:44
now which is for some people in the middle of nowhere, it's not
18:50
quite there, it's on the edge of it but it's really hard to find
18:54
other youth pastors to network with and to just have a buddy in
18:58
the area. You can have lunch with and just
19:01
you know, detox with each other. Or one of you is having a rough
19:05
week of ministry and so you tell the other one what's going on?
19:09
And he can encourage you bring you back down to reality if
19:12
you're just being a wine. Maybe, you know, that kind of
19:15
stuff. And so not having that and not
19:19
having that ability to Just Bounce stuff off of people.
19:22
I think that's one of the things that I've appreciated about
19:25
having this podcast is that even for me as a youth pastor, I go
19:28
back and I listened to the episodes because I listened to
19:31
what our guests say and the input that they have and it's
19:35
helped me feel more connected to the mind of the, you know, the
19:41
average youth pastor these days and Figure out, you know, what
19:44
is it that they're dealing with the the constant shift of our
19:48
culture has been insanely quick. And I mean, when we were
19:53
students at Liberty, they told us that youth culture changes
19:56
every five years, I'm pretty sure it's now every 5 seconds,
19:58
but we can think Tick-Tock for that.
20:02
But we have, you know, that it's the Maybe covid contributed to
20:08
this, but the isolation that we're all feeling and some are
20:11
actually dealing with, especially for the rural youth
20:14
pastor, it can be pretty daunting.
20:16
And so having that Lifeline there, we want to be able to do
20:21
that for guys. And I've been amazed at the
20:24
reception because you know how you look at the back end and you
20:27
can see, which episodes are the most popular, our episode about
20:31
lying about Santa is like, in the top five still, Understand
20:37
why, but it is and it's all about Santa, but we just ran to
20:42
right Santa? Yes, I kind of parked there for
20:44
a little too long, but I mean, we're, you know, we want to
20:48
help. We don't, I don't think either
20:50
one of us claim to be experts in the field, but I try to live the
20:55
Mantra. My dad told me when I graduated
20:57
from high school, get plugged into a local church and state
20:59
teachable and yeah, that'll take you further than most of the
21:04
other advice, the world has to offer.
21:06
That's great. And I've enjoyed, like I said,
21:10
listen to you guys and cleaning from and and even in that same
21:13
sense of what you said for me, it's youth pastor in Idaho.
21:17
We did. We just sort of formulated a
21:21
gathering of Youth pastors. It turned in like 10 or 12 and
21:24
those are some of my most grateful memories of just guys
21:28
getting together having lunch and here at.
21:29
Now, we meet every Thursday with our youth Pastors in our
21:33
association. I had no idea what an
21:35
association was. But that's what we were doing in
21:38
Idaho. And I come here and I realize
21:40
men, the guys are already doing this.
21:42
And so it has been a breath of fresh air, to be able to do
21:44
things with other churches to not have to be in competition,
21:47
with other churches and just see kids grow.
21:50
See kids come to know Jesus. And so it's been a blessing for
21:54
me as a youth pastor. And so, I appreciate what you
21:56
guys are doing. One thing I don't appreciate is
21:59
when we did the RFP sabbatical time and we have the greatest
22:05
episode ever and you. You guys come on with John
22:07
Cooper. We were ready.
22:14
We have this we we knew this was going to be the best of the four
22:19
of the guys we fill in for and then I get the notification.
22:23
Yeah we just interviewed John Cooper what kind of math well
22:27
like to just let you know that wasn't a new interview that was
22:32
an older interview that we had our podcast that Because I told
22:38
I told JC and them was like, look, I ain't got time to do it.
22:43
This summer was insane. Yes, both of us.
22:45
We don't we don't we tell we have the Summers off.
22:48
Like we don't do interviews like for as and recording editing.
22:53
I don't do any of that. I do interview people to create
22:56
a backlog but that that's easy that's an hour of my time.
23:00
When about doing editing plus interview that's another story.
23:04
So they know it all. But basically so that It was an
23:06
old old episode. I told JJC said I said, here
23:10
goes a bunch, you can choose from, what do you want?
23:12
It's like all John Cooper. Let's do that one.
23:15
That's like, okay, so I just sit him that one to play on their
23:20
podcast but it and then we have another one from from John
23:24
Cooper. This will be releasing soon that
23:26
again is an older one, but I have not released it on our
23:29
podcast. So I actually did it for
23:30
another, another podcast about a year.
23:34
You're too young. So we're releasing an arm.
23:36
But nice. Yeah.
23:38
See, that's one of the things that amazes me about Ryan.
23:40
He has like this superpower where he can get people that
23:43
people know on the podcast and interview them.
23:46
And I'm like, how in the world did you get in touch with John
23:49
Cooper? Sean McDowell or, you know, like
23:52
how do you find these people? And, and I'm over here, like I
23:55
got a buddy from college. We can interview its we're good
24:00
it's called it's called learning how to email well, and knowing
24:06
how to To do a lot of research. Both of those two combined, the
24:10
spot, what helps a lot and the bigger podcast, and his side,
24:13
no, just bigger podcasts gets and the more you authors.
24:17
You interview, the more connections you make with
24:19
publicist. So I get a lot of model
24:21
Publishers pitching. Pitching authors to me more than
24:25
anything. Yeah, but yeah, that's pretty
24:28
cool. That we now have Partnerships
24:29
with a bunch of different publishing companies that's kind
24:32
of developed over the years. It's great.
24:35
John listen. Go.
24:36
Number four. Let's get number three.
24:37
Let's jump number for sake of time and I'll just because I
24:41
like the way the conversations going.
24:42
Yeah, let's just go there. How can young a young person?
24:46
Keep biblical principles and values, but still be in the
24:50
culture. I don't know about you guys but
24:52
do you, do you see it seems like the activist culture is, is
24:58
insane and the past several years, you feel like that?
25:04
There's have you seen young people?
25:06
Sort of getting involved in that.
25:08
And you know, how do they, how do they wrestle with, with being
25:13
a Christian, having biblical principles but yet still having
25:17
this desired and he's like, The In Crowd is to, you know, be on
25:22
fire and protest the next thing that's in the news.
25:26
Yeah, they don't start this and I'll let you kind of hash it out
25:30
too. But maybe to answer this
25:34
question you can't really pinpoint a direct answer this
25:37
question because like, because when you talk about youth
25:39
culture and talk about students, it's every part of the country
25:45
is a different culture. It's a different almost, a
25:48
different vibe of youth culture to a point.
25:51
Now, they're more connected. So you see more, you NE see like
25:55
Unity, The culture at large because of things like a
25:58
smartphone being well-connected well-informed while I would say
26:03
well informed because about things that they get is bogus
26:06
crap, that's over uniformed. Yeah.
26:09
But there's more Unity, but the same time, there's a lot of
26:14
differences based on where you're at.
26:15
You're going to see a little more activism and parts like
26:18
California and then you would maybe say, like rural Virginia,
26:24
you'll see. So it is.
26:26
Lil Bit different that sense. But when you answer the question
26:29
of Kennedy, young person key biblical principles and values,
26:32
but still be being the culture of the answer is obviously, yes.
26:38
But how a student does that again, I'm going to back up a
26:46
little bit and say, how you create this of keeping biblical
26:52
principles with being active in culture?
26:56
His back to us as the church. It even further back as parents,
27:01
actually discipling kit. It's there is a big, a big
27:08
divide in. Again, we're starting to see it
27:10
a little bit more. Now, start to activate act on it
27:13
and make changes culturally and church culture now.
27:18
But the last, I would say, because youth ministry youth
27:21
ministry and itself. It's a pretty much a new
27:23
phenomenon. Okay.
27:25
It's only in church. Culture, it's only stick.
27:27
You see it. More coming out in the 40s, a
27:30
little bit with thing organizations, like, like, young
27:33
life and some others. But you really started seeing it
27:36
come out, more in the 60s, during the Jesus movement, and
27:39
when you hit the 70s, it just ran, and then became a massive
27:44
Norm in the 80s. So it's so when you, when you
27:46
look at youth ministry itself as a free early new, when it comes
27:51
to typically youth ministry, but we've notice and youth
27:55
Ministries. At each generation.
28:00
Keeps becomes more biblically, illiterate also more on reached.
28:06
And when we use the term on reach means, unchurched have no
28:11
Avenue in the church. We don't even know what to Jesus
28:14
is. So we're seeing that more and
28:16
more culturally. So what?
28:18
Because of that you're seeing more activism, I would say in a
28:25
negative light from from church, youth culture from In the
28:31
church, you're seeing more that because they are ignorant to
28:35
biblical truth, they have been discipled by their own, their
28:39
parents. That the church that's really
28:42
was a big movement right now which I'm excited about, which
28:44
I'm to see is, there's a big movement to quipping training
28:49
and equipping parents and disciple with their kids because
28:51
they are the primary discipler. The parents spend more time with
28:56
her, with her kids. We, and then the Church of the
28:59
me as youth. Pastor.
29:00
I spend a fraction of their week each week with them.
29:05
They are massively with their parents so you see?
29:09
So, again, to answer this question is not really an answer
29:11
to it, but I say a good starting point and church cultural East
29:17
is to make sure we prioritize discipleship because there has
29:21
been a discipleship deficit and our American culture and we see
29:27
that and when it comes to research, we're seeing Jenna
29:30
relationally each year. Each generation gets worse and
29:34
worse biblical literacy and also just being unreached.
29:41
I think it starts there with parents and church prioritizing
29:45
discipleship. Number one, number two, when,
29:48
and how to say when it comes to kids.
29:53
Just basically, if they're, if they are being discipled, they
29:58
are having in the home. There are all all that, but it
30:01
comes to engaging culture, you can gauge culture, fine, but
30:04
engage it, what's going on? But also do it.
30:10
First, Peter 3 at the Glebe is 315 when it comes to being ready
30:15
to give the hope within you, but do with love and respect and
30:20
engage in culture, that way is the only way that you're going
30:25
to see a shift because only thing that can change cultures
30:27
the gospel and that's period. It's politics can't.
30:31
Activism can't is just the gospel of approaching culture
30:35
with the gospel approaching it with truth and love and respect.
30:40
And really seeing people, the pastor sin seeing people, the
30:44
way God does and loving them in that way.
30:48
But standing up for truth is the only way you're going to see.
30:51
Culture shift is through the gospel and that lens and we've
30:56
seen a rise also in the culture even You referenced the 40s.
31:02
There's been a huge rise in a group of people in our country
31:06
that refer to themselves. Well, they don't refer to
31:07
themselves like this, but the researchers do called religious
31:10
nuns and no NES back in the 40s. It was like five percent of the
31:15
population had no religious affiliation back as of research
31:19
from I think 2015 it was like 23 percent and if you just look at
31:23
the Millennials it was over a third.
31:25
So the discipleship part that Ryan's talking about a lot of
31:30
what Church's job is going to be is to equip the parents because
31:34
they're trying to figure out how to disciple their kids, having
31:36
never been discipled themselves. We have parents of kids in the
31:40
youth group and in the Children's Ministries.
31:41
Now that don't know what they're doing, because no one ever
31:45
taught them how or taught them terribly.
31:48
And so they're having to deal with their own generational,
31:51
trauma there. And even even just like, within
31:56
the last, probably a couple of weeks to a couple of months.
31:59
I've seen a rise. He's in Dad's basically going.
32:04
Um, I don't think I'm doing this, right.
32:06
I need help and I think that's been a shift because when I was
32:10
a teenager I think the attitude was kind of from the parents to
32:13
the youth. Pastor was like here fix my kid.
32:16
And now the conversations I've had with parents have been more
32:21
on the level of, can you help? Not, like, do it for me.
32:26
Fix the problem, but it's more. Like, can you help me?
32:29
I don't really know. And it amazes me because I still
32:32
have that mentality like, oh, I'm younger than you, how am I
32:35
going to help? You know?
32:37
But then I have to remember, I was put here for a reason, so
32:40
helping disciple, the dads and and we know there's research
32:44
from all over secular non-secular doesn't matter.
32:49
The research is almost 100% agreement.
32:51
That fatherhood is a huge litmus test for kids and their growth,
32:56
whether spiritual or just keep him out of jail, you know?
32:58
That kind of thing. One of the things that I've
33:01
tried to encourage our students to do specifically with in my
33:04
youth group. And then when I talk with other
33:06
guys, when you and when you actually engage the culture,
33:10
it's not just don't have like a consumption attitude because
33:14
that's what most of is being thrown at the students is, I
33:19
can't stand most social media because people don't realize
33:22
this, but Facebook is the only social media platform that's
33:26
actually social. Everything else is consumption
33:29
driven. You can get a sore thumb muscle
33:32
because you're just flick. Flick flick flick, flick flick
33:35
and and you're just constantly consuming on Facebook.
33:37
You can do that too. But there's groups, you can get
33:40
in groups with like-minded people and you can share stuff.
33:44
I mean, several, I think we're in like what five or six
33:47
different youth, pastor groups on Facebook and some of those
33:49
are more entertaining than others, I'll leave that there.
33:53
I'm in a couple of like wood carving groups on Facebook and
33:56
small woodworking shops. And I see guys make cool stuff
33:59
all the time and you see him encourage each other.
34:01
I mean, a couple of dad groups and so that part's a little more
34:05
social but when when one of the things I've seen happen online,
34:10
whether it's in the comment sections or people posting
34:13
videos is that as soon as something happens or something
34:16
is said, everybody has an opinion on it and it's not the I
34:22
want to learn more curiosity. It's not the asking the
34:26
question, why respectfully? It's just I have something to
34:30
say. About that.
34:31
And this is my thoughts. And if you tell me I'm wrong,
34:33
then how dare you judge me and we've come at culture, almost
34:38
more not like violent, but we've come at culture, more
34:42
accusatory, Ali, if that's a word, instead of being
34:46
inquisitive and asking, like, why like I've encouraged our
34:50
students, if you watch a movie, ask why they're doing certain
34:55
things, have the conversation talk to parents like haven't,
34:59
you know, go watch a popular movie.
35:00
The kids and then engage them in conversation about some of the
35:03
stuff they saw on the screen that bothered them or stuff that
35:07
came up, conceptually that you think is necessary to talk about
35:10
and engage in the conversation in a respectful and gentle way
35:14
and not just start with the well you're wrong idiot.
35:17
Now let's fix your life. If that's not going to help it's
35:20
coming at it with a spirit of gentleness because I do think
35:24
it's still possible to disagree respectfully with people.
35:27
And I've had a few people in my life that Don't believe anything
35:31
close to what I believe. And the only reason they'll
35:34
listen is because I've been nice to them when most other people
35:38
just take their Bible and whack them in the head not literally.
35:41
But that's kind of the the principal and and we're working
35:44
with a group of people which I think youth Ministries the
35:47
greatest Ministry in the church anyway because it's just
35:51
Frontline stuff but you're working with an age group and it
35:54
doesn't matter what generation it is.
35:56
Whether it's Millennials gen z alpha Boomers when you're
35:59
between the ages. Ages of 12 and 19 or you know,
36:02
bleed out a few years. Either way you're working with
36:05
an aged herb, that is extremely passionate.
36:07
Sometimes they display that as apathy which I think is just
36:13
passion misdirected, but they're very passionate about something
36:19
and helping them. Learn how to channel that energy
36:22
into something productive rather than destructive and learn how
36:26
to not just not like suppress but All their emotions so that
36:32
they can think through things while still allowing the
36:34
emotions to happen but not dictate.
36:36
Their life is one of the things that I think is going to help
36:39
them as they look at things not just with an inquisitive mind
36:44
mentality and not just with a questioning mentality, but does
36:48
a does. This line up with scripture
36:51
mentality when they have a conversation at school with a
36:54
friend and their friend goes, well you know it's true for you
36:56
but not for me. Well, there's a Biblical thought
36:59
process behind Why that's terrible as a worldview, the,
37:04
the whole objective truth issue with students.
37:07
I don't think our students think about that stuff on a regular
37:10
basis. They're not sitting in class
37:12
wondering, you know what is objective truth.
37:13
The thing or is subjective truth the thing.
37:16
Now the thinking about what YouTube video they want to watch
37:18
next because the teachers boring and they're apparently allowed
37:20
to have the laptops open in school.
37:22
So you know, there's all of this stuff that's distracting them
37:26
but helping them learn one. The discipleship part is not
37:29
just like we We don't have to be vague about that.
37:32
Get them in the work. Just go listen like two episodes
37:34
ago. Alright ours all right, get him
37:37
in the word, get a memorizing, it get him praying and then
37:40
having gospel conversations and not just like witnessing to
37:43
other people but talking about the gospel and talking about
37:47
biblical principle and asking questions about what the Bible
37:49
says. And having having a having the
37:52
why conversation? I don't know why in the 90s and
37:55
the early 2000s when we were in youth ministry, people shied
37:58
away from the why question? Because they thought, Doubting
38:00
was a bad thing. This Sunday night.
38:04
I told my students doubt all you want, but chase the question and
38:08
get the answer. Don't just sit there and wallow
38:10
in your doubt, find the answer. If you're not sure go find the
38:14
answer. If you don't know how to find
38:15
the answer, ask somebody for help but don't just sit there
38:18
and do nothing and wallow in your doubt because it'll get
38:22
depressing and it'll get hopeless because you're not
38:24
willing to do the hard work of finding it out and we have to
38:29
model What that hard work looks like for our students and David
38:33
you're gonna get me on a rant. Absolutely, the Social Media
38:39
stuff like I could go on for the next just.
38:41
Absolutely. But yeah, you guys, in fact,
38:45
Dave all trip is actually putting out a book because of it
38:48
called something about reactivity and he's like riding
38:52
on how the gospel can help us. When we, the way we react on
38:55
social media, I was like, first, I'm like really, we need a book
38:58
about how to interact as Us on social media.
39:01
We need a book about everything. I guess we need a book.
39:04
I guess we're going to book but my ball Paul trip, it's gonna be
39:07
phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, I know the funny
39:09
thing about Paul trip is it's the same book, it's every every
39:13
one of his books is the exact same book.
39:15
It's just just a different theme.
39:17
Didn't doesn't he say that? Yeah, he says he actually said
39:20
that in his latest book. I'm reading right now.
39:22
Do you believe? And I was like, man, he
39:24
actually, he recognizes it. He said the quiet part out loud.
39:29
If you want, if you want As a random Phaeton about social
39:32
media. Just listen to don't lie.
39:35
It was, it was it. What's the name of that Peak
39:36
truth? Don't like, I speak true, don't
39:38
lie? Listen to the episode.
39:39
And, you know, you'll see a little rants.
39:41
I talk about an issue that I had on Facebook, with a youth.
39:45
Pastor group, I had a friend the other day.
39:48
That posted something about religious lies that have
39:51
traumatized us, and I read through them and about half of
39:54
them were biblically accurate truths, but they were mixed in
39:57
with a bunch of stuff that I've heard Christians pedal.
40:00
That's not true and it is damaging.
40:02
And so I commented because it's a friend, I had from high school
40:06
and I commented and I was like, hey, you know, I just want you
40:12
to know that I agree that some of the stuff on this list is
40:14
really damaging and hurtful but some of the stuff is actually
40:16
true. So if you would like to have a
40:19
conversation about, I'd be more than happy to do that, just not
40:21
on social media because it's not an appropriate place for that.
40:23
And she responded. Very respectfully and she's
40:26
like, I'm not really in a place where I can handle something
40:29
like that, but if we do see each, Again, someday, I'd be
40:31
happy to sit down and talk to you.
40:32
And so, we went back and forth a little bit.
40:34
And, and somebody commented at the bottom was like, this is the
40:37
most respectful disagreement I've ever heard on social media,
40:40
and my life. Yeah, yeah.
40:45
But, you know, going back to what you guys were saying.
40:48
I've spent many years in youth ministry, and, and still as a
40:53
lead pastor, we have a youth night where we just do church
40:57
for the for the kids and I've been sort sort of doing the the
41:01
older teens young adults and My Philosophy sort of change
41:05
because not only is youth ministry, a relatively New
41:08
Concept. The Adolescent teenager is a
41:12
fairly New Concept to he made up tree and if you look, if you're
41:18
going biblically, they didn't have any room for that.
41:21
There's no aspect for it as well.
41:23
So My Philosophy is come to this like, whenever I'm speaking to
41:26
young people, I want to call them to grow up.
41:30
I want to call them to maturity because I mean you think about
41:33
even the the celebration of the bar mitzvah, right?
41:35
What was the bar mitzvah? It was man.
41:38
Yes, it was the transition celebration for after puberty
41:41
from a kid to become an adult to be a man and other cultures have
41:47
a similar type of Celebration because of that.
41:50
But it's been changed so much over our culture and I'm not
41:53
advocating for, you know, 13 and 14 year olds to go out and get
41:56
married. That's not what I'm saying.
41:58
But I think that we need to call them to more maturity in their
42:01
thinking. Yep.
42:02
And in, they're behaving. Mmm.
42:04
Yeah, yeah. Let's just look back.
42:06
Okay, 1800s. And before, okay, that there
42:09
were kids going to college at 13, 14, 15 and during that time
42:17
period. So yeah, I totally agree that
42:21
that man, we not even that far back you're in Morganton, right?
42:25
Yeah. My grandparents for McDowell.
42:28
County. Yeah, right in Marion, okay my
42:32
grandfather and my grandmother got married at 15 and 16 years
42:37
old and started a family right after that, my mother, my wife's
42:42
grandmother went to college graduate with a teaching degree,
42:45
came back and taught, and in her contract, she was not allowed to
42:49
disclose her age, because she was younger than some of her
42:51
senior high school students. Yeah, it's a new construct that
42:57
we put in in culture. I don't agree with it, but at
43:03
the same time, it's so ingrained now in our culture and our
43:08
parents and church culture, working around that can be
43:13
difficult in a sense of getting parents to understand, hey, your
43:17
kid is, you don't have to treat your kid like a kid and what
43:21
about? You can charge treated like an
43:23
adult you today. That the funny thing about youth
43:25
ministry. I mean, if you're doing it
43:27
right, really youth ministry is parent Ministry.
43:30
Correct. Yeah and Angela but that's the
43:33
thing. So one of the things our culture
43:34
has lost and I think part of it has to do with the judeo
43:37
Christian basis that our country got started in.
43:40
And I'm not I'm fuzzy on some of the history here.
43:42
So feel free to fact-check me but we've kind of lost the rite
43:46
of passage thing. That might be because we looked
43:48
at and thought. Nope, that's Pagan.
43:50
It's out. So, it could have been a
43:51
knee-jerk reaction, but we don't have those.
43:54
We don't the Rites of Passage that we have now as an American
43:57
culture are kind of garbage, like, you're 16.
44:00
And so you get a license who or homecoming or prom, give me a
44:04
break, the rite of passage in my church and this is my fault and
44:08
no one knows about it because I don't talk about it.
44:10
But the rite of passage in my church, is the annual parent
44:12
meeting, where I tell the parents.
44:14
This is the plan for the year, your kids and youth group.
44:17
Now they're not a child. I'm not going to treat him like
44:19
a child. We're going to cover some pretty
44:21
deep stuff. So if they still think Santa's
44:23
real tell him. Because I'm gonna Take the
44:30
gloves off. When we cover stuff that's like
44:33
on the deeper end of like the sexuality issues, I usually give
44:36
the parents a heads up, but I've never had to go so deep that I
44:40
have that. I feel the need to ask for
44:41
permission, I only ever give them a heads up.
44:44
Like this is coming. The permission part.
44:46
Is whether or not you let your kid come to youth group that
44:48
night and we're going to hit that in January because there's
44:51
a whole module. We're going through about
44:53
identity and God's design for men, God's design for women,
44:57
God's design, for marriage, and it's going.
45:00
To punch culture right in the face because shock, you know,
45:03
spoiler alert the Bible hadn't changed.
45:05
So we already know what the answer is to that are going on a
45:08
little bit of what David said to my parents, meaning of being the
45:12
year. I have a piece of paper that
45:14
says what your students need to know.
45:17
Of course we do has lgbtq Zone there pornography's on there so
45:21
I got a list of things but on that list is Christmas and as
45:28
described what I'm talking about.
45:29
But I tell that the Here, is that there is a reason why this
45:31
is here. This like when you look at a
45:34
warning sign on a product, that's there, because someone
45:39
sued the company, I'll swallow the batteries that this is there
45:44
because I've had this issue with the parents in the past.
45:46
Yep, so absolutely way we live with it.
45:49
Are you guys ready telling me that you had 13 year olds come
45:53
to youth group, who still believe Santa Claus is real?
45:56
Your Ryan. You want it, you want to do your
45:57
story or mine. I can do it short.
46:01
Right now. Let's do believe that some
46:02
people really no, no, no, okay. So I'll say this real quick, AKA
46:07
those of you who are listening, go back and listen to speak
46:11
truth. Don't like, as I go this and way
46:13
detail, both of us dies. But yes, yeah.
46:17
So I had I had an issue where I was basically, in a small group
46:21
setting with the guys, I were talking about Christmas and
46:24
Mission Santa Claus wasn't real, and I got parents angry at me.
46:27
I got called, so from parents. One was 13 years old, couple
46:32
more 12, since multiple parents. I want just one, it was multiple
46:37
parents calling me. And now that was the first time
46:41
and I that point I've been in Ministry full-time or lay
46:46
leader, or part-time for about 10 about a decade that point and
46:50
never dealt with that before. Have the same conversations
46:54
every year when we go around Christmas time.
46:57
But yeah, it was it was it was a difficult.
47:00
Cult interesting conversation, but that that one instant after
47:03
that, every year after that is, when I start having a sheet of
47:06
what your students need to know. Yeah, I'll give you a quick
47:09
teaser online though. It's you with the Santa for
47:12
mine, I had a dad, wait for an entire year and message me on
47:16
Christmas Eve to ream me out about it in order to expressly
47:19
ruin my Christmas that year. Well, if you want the whole
47:23
story. Go listen.
47:26
Yeah, so we didn't work. I had a great Christmas.
47:28
Yeah. And that is, that is a sad
47:32
thing. So, yeah, John, he's got some
47:35
things going on with his church. We've got a close this up, great
47:39
conversation, you know, biblical principles values, it lies with
47:43
the parents, they've got a disciple.
47:44
They've got a, they've got to train their kids.
47:47
The right way. We have, like you said a
47:49
fraction of the amount of time. This morning, we do a donuts and
47:53
devotion every morning with our middle school.
47:56
And so we do each week, we do 876 this week was sixth graders,
48:01
and we had like 80 some tenders arrows, great time, but one of
48:04
the local youth pastors, he spoke on this verse and it came
48:07
to my mind. I think it fit.
48:08
Well with the last question, practical ways for are used to
48:11
affect the culture and in the verse was Matthew 5:13, whereas
48:17
you are the salt of the earth if the thought is also save your,
48:20
how can it be any Fact be salty, that, that salt.
48:24
So, how can a teenager be salt in a world that is full of
48:29
Destruction full of anti-god anti-everything?
48:34
How can they be a salt? How can they be something that
48:38
is providing saver, something that's providing change
48:41
something that's providing healing different aspects of
48:44
what salt does. So what are some practical ways
48:47
that teenagers can do that in the culture that we live in
48:49
today? Well, the starting point for
48:53
this entire conversation of affecting youth like their
48:58
peers, ultimately starts with them developing relationship
49:04
with God. Them actually spending time with
49:06
him. Yeah, I'm making him priority
49:08
being being letting the gospel as were transformed.
49:11
The heartstrings from the mines was from who they are.
49:15
So I think it starts there so we had to have a starting point and
49:18
that would be the starting point I guess.
49:21
And again there's very few, I would say in a sad for me to
49:24
stay at say as a student, Pastor it very few kids are actually
49:29
doing that and doing that well, because there is an epidemic
49:33
with parent discipleship, but that's the started Guild there.
49:40
Now, what kinds of practical ways menu?
49:42
There's to me the most practical way for youth affect their
49:47
culture and that kind of back goes back to what we discussed.
49:50
I just said earlier, magic, just love on people and love them for
49:59
who they are, is have a lens. Try to have a lens of seeing
50:03
people, the way God sees them. One thing that that is in our
50:08
culture and David Cohn spoken to this a little bit.
50:11
When we talk about social media is that we have in an accusation
50:16
null type of mindset. When we look at people whether
50:20
it's Lgbtq this old transgender which is which is hard for us as
50:25
Pastor since navigate right now. Navigate well, but seeing people
50:30
in a very condemning way and almost instead of instead of
50:36
loving them, not necessarily loving looking Pastor sin, you
50:39
still need a dress and speak truth, but you speak truth and
50:42
love and respect and loving them who they are building
50:45
relationships with them. And that is the Number one way,
50:51
that youth or anybody for that matter, is going to be able to
50:55
affect culture because this isn't just be this should be
50:58
honest and transparent the church has a negative reputation
51:03
and our culture. When it comes to interacting
51:08
with people like lgbtq we have a very negative negative.
51:14
You if you go to someone who is in that in that realm and I live
51:18
stealth 9/10 times Asking the question, what do you think
51:21
about the church? It's always gonna be negative
51:25
because a lot of these not of them have had negative
51:28
experiences with people who claim to be Believers in Christ.
51:33
So I would say that that's the first and foremost is to love
51:36
them, love them well and through the relational building
51:41
relationships that point having gospel conversations leading the
51:46
Christ as a fact is you have to live out Christ in front of
51:49
culture. It's an order for culture to
51:52
change culture and that can affect and culture your feet
51:55
have to match your mouth, and you have to make sure your mouth
51:57
is right. That the thing that you hit on
52:01
Ryan about getting in the word, it's the word that's going to
52:05
transform. You you made me think of Romans
52:07
12:1 and 2 and and it's impossible to pour from an empty
52:12
cup. So if you're going to try to
52:13
affect culture with nothing with no Tools in your belt, then
52:19
you're not going to, you're going to get Tossed to and fro
52:21
like a wave of the sea like James talks about.
52:24
So but I do think it's a little bit sad that one of the best
52:28
pieces of advice, we can give you on how you can affect their
52:31
culture. Is that it's become an
52:32
Evangelistic strategy to be nice.
52:35
Yeah, we've gotten to that point now, where we have to tell
52:40
Christians, be nice about it. There's a difference between
52:43
being right? And being obnoxiously, right?
52:47
If you're right and you convey it, well, somebody may not like
52:49
it but they Can potentially acknowledge it.
52:52
But if you're just a giant turd, the whole time then they're not
52:56
going to listen, even if you have convincing Beyond
52:58
convincing evidence, not not Beyond A Reasonable Doubt but
53:02
beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you are, if you are
53:05
absolutely 100% verifiably, correct they don't care if
53:10
you're a jerk, they're not going to listen.
53:12
And so getting to that point where you are showing them the
53:16
love of Christ. Like you mentioned with the
53:18
lgbtq community, I asked Questions get to know them.
53:21
They're still human beings made in the image of God.
53:24
They're just sinners like you are and their favorites in is
53:27
more public right now than yours is.
53:28
So you both need forgiveness, treat them with the dignity and
53:33
respect they deserve as a human being.
53:36
And then, as you build that relationship, hopefully you can
53:40
build the relational Equity to start telling them a little bit
53:43
more uncomfortable truth yet truth nonetheless and and
53:49
looking the other Google thing I would say is is show, but also
53:54
teach the youth, how to serve other people.
53:56
Because we often think of serving somehow that's also
54:00
gotten relegated to, Sunday's, just like, worship worship is
54:04
not Sunday morning for an hour. Serving is not Sunday morning
54:07
for an hour or an hour and a half because, you know, the
54:09
volunteers have to get there early.
54:12
It's more than just showing up and saying hi to people and
54:17
passing out bulletins and teaching a Sunday school class.
54:22
Modeling for students that using the phrase.
54:25
I've done my time. Someone else can do.
54:26
It is actually probably more of a sinful attitude than a bad
54:30
idea in the church. I've had people that I've asked
54:34
about considering serving somewhere and they were like,
54:36
well, I've done my time, like, are you dead?
54:38
Because if you're not, you haven't done any time.
54:40
Also, this isn't a prison. This is the family of God, where
54:43
life eternal gets preached about.
54:45
So why have you done your time? It doesn't make any sense to me
54:49
at all. Sorry.
54:50
I'm ranting now, but I think it's okay back to what I said
54:55
earlier. Helping them figure out how to
54:59
kindly engage in disagreement and that can take a while, but
55:04
we can also tell them that it can take a while we're allowed
55:08
to say that love it. I think we're going to change
55:11
the title of the episode to love people and don't be a giant turd
55:19
and living will Yeah, having well and living well, because I
55:22
think that there's some aspects to say, we need to love them and
55:25
be like them and and that kind of thing.
55:28
That's, that's, that's that's taking one imbalance Taylor for.
55:31
And then the other ones is like we need to look differently from
55:35
the world and then they end up being self-righteous jerks.
55:40
And the idea is God wants you to look like Christ, which means
55:46
like you said be like Christ in front of them but love them.
55:50
I mean your to be different. You are to live differently?
55:55
Yeah, a lot of that living differently has nothing to do
55:58
with the way you look on your outer body.
56:00
It's the way that you treat people, it's the fruit of the
56:05
spirit, right? All those are qualities that
56:07
flow out from the spirit love joy, peace.
56:10
Long-suffering, you know, they don't see that whenever you're
56:14
ranting against the way that they live.
56:17
Yep. You know they didn't see the
56:19
fruit of the spirit they see a self-righteous jerk.
56:22
Yeah. And there's a good chance that
56:23
if they know you're a Christian and a part of a church, they
56:25
already know how you view them as far as the sin is concerned.
56:30
Now, that's not to say, some people do actually believe that
56:33
the what they're doing is fine and that there's nothing wrong
56:35
with it. But that I think that's a rare
56:38
instance. But if they know you're part of
56:40
a church, there's a good chance. They know what your theological
56:42
view is, and you can get to that.
56:45
But every conversation you have does not have to be A
56:48
three-point sermon gospel presentation and an invitation.
56:51
While we sing just as I am, that's not how you build,
56:54
relational Equity with people, that's how you do a crusade.
56:59
But that's not how you reach people and and it's okay to take
57:07
it slowly. Jesus didn't go running after
57:09
people and preaching. The gospel every single time.
57:11
He opened his mouth he lived differently but as differently
57:14
as you can you know because he's God.
57:16
So doesn't live like us, but But he looked at the crowds with
57:19
compassion not haughty judgment, knowing that he was the only one
57:24
there righteous enough to judge. He still chose to treat them
57:29
with compassion knowing that, I Think Jesus knew that if he was
57:34
a giant turd, nobody would listen, Berto.
57:36
Example of that is the woman is John for woman at the well where
57:40
he never compromised truth. He loved her.
57:44
Mmm-hmm, you know, that's a perfect example of What the the
57:49
unsaved and then be told some harsh truth in that
57:52
conversation. Absolutely.
57:53
Absolutely. And one more important aspect is
57:57
you need to wear hoodies like David's got on right now.
58:00
Yeah I guess we're it says but it is all seven Hobbit meals
58:04
from Lord of the Rings. Breakfast.
58:05
Seven breakfast. 11c second breakfast.
58:08
Elevenses luncheon afternoon tea dinner supper see this is this
58:13
is the difference between the Lord of the Rings fan and a not
58:16
Lord of the Rings fan, his microphones covering up.
58:18
I just saw in seas and I knew exactly what it was my man.
58:24
I'm a huge Lord of the Rings nerd.
58:25
There's so much Christian allegory in that story and the
58:29
irony is Tolkien hated allegory and he never intended for it to
58:32
be. Hey, every good.
58:34
Epic comes from scripture. That's all I'm going to say,
58:37
right? That's right.
58:38
All right. Hey, it's great.
58:39
Having you guys on here? And I have thoroughly enjoyed
58:43
this and don't be a giant turd. That's the think away.
58:46
Amen. Thank you guys for having us.
58:48
That's where I am. Thanks David.
58:50
Thank you. Yes, and until next time to God,
58:55
not the pastor, be the glory. Thanks for listening to the for
59:01
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Like this, please visit RFP network.org to find more
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