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325: Unlocking the Best Possible Outcomes in Special Education, with Michelle Pianim · Beautifully Complex

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of times for parents, we go into a
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: school environment once we're fed up, so that team has
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: come to expect that you don't have faith in them,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and maybe you don't, Okay, but some of this is
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I need to put expectations when my child starts the year.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Let's sit down and talk. Here are the things that
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I know to be true about my child in school
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and out of school, and here's what I can offer
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you in terms of support.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Complex everyone. I am really excited to have Michelle, p
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: and m here with me to talk about special education
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: and all of the things I EP and learning differences
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: and advocacy. And I think that advocacy piece is really
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: hard for a lot of parents, and it's hard for
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of our kids too to self advocate. So
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to this conversation and getting your
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: insights Michelle. But will you start just by letting everybody
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: know who you are and what you do.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Sure, I'm Michelle P and M and I would consider
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: myself a career special educator. So I just am about
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to hit my twenty fourth year in education. Started out
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: as a teacher, eventually became a principal, worked for the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: superintendent in DC and the Department of SPECIALID, and then
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: went on to start my own consulting business, which is
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: very much school facing and so supporting schools with developing
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a special ED culture that includes parents, that maintains compliance
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and gets our kids growing through into, you know, whatever
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: their desired outcome is. And so I try to work
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: really hard to help my schools understand just what it
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: looks like from a parent's perspective, but also what it
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: looks like to have a really high functioning special ED
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  Speaker 1: program where parents have hope and you know, inclusive practices
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: for their children. I'm excited to be here with you.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: You use the word culture, and that is standing out
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: to me because we haven't in general fostered a culture
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of inclusion. You know, in our history when I was
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: in school, all the special ed kids were you know,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: in the trailers out back and completely separated. They rode
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: a separate bus, they had a separate lunchtime. Everything was separate.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And I think we're still dragging some of that with us, right,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and we need to change it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean so there's two parts to this.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I had a school leader who is also a form
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: She was my former supervisor, so when we know each
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: other well, and she said to me just two weeks ago,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: she just took a CEO role at a charter school
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and she said, Michelle, the number one order of business
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: is getting those kids out of the parking lot. She said,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: we have three trailers where the autistic program is housed,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and it's on our land, right. It's not in the building,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it's in temporaries, right. And I said, oh my god,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I cringe thinking about if it's snow on the ground
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and they're transitioning to lunch or you know, the weather.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: And she said, number one order of business, get those
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: kids out of those temporaries, like get our babies back
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in the building with us. And I just thought it's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I remember being in high school and
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: all the special ed classes were on one hallway that
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: was not super well lit, classrooms at no windows, and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I wasn't super aware of special education language at that time.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Even though my grandmother was a teacher. We used to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: call them Eddie's. We didn't even have any understanding of
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: how offensive that would be. And I'm thinking, Okay, we
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: surely have made growth now, and there are little things
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that continue to remind me, like you said, that we
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: are maybe not necessarily functioning and inclusive.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Stuck yep, stuck. Yeah, And even you know, minor divergent
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: kid graduated high school, oh my gosh, almost four years ago,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: maybe now, and you know, not so long ago, and
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: there was a special ed hall. You know, it was
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: still separate. It was in the building, some of it,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: but I remember his special ed study hall was in
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a temporary you had to go outside and go to it,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: you know. And it's like it just gave me flashbacks
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: of when I was in high school. The middle school
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: was next door and I was going over. It was
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: some sort of class volunteer thing, and I was working
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: in a special ed class back then, and it was
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: like that, right, and I'm like, oh my gosh, we're
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: still doing this the same in so many ways. So
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: how do we make change. How can you know, one
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: singular parent, one singular advocate start to chip away at
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: that and make change.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's a good question. I think it's sometimes hard
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to say depending on the school. Where the school is
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: located in the metropolitan city or is it in the suburbs,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: is it in a rural environment where you don't have
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of resources. I mean, you have to look
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: at that first. But I think you know that old saying,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the hit dog barks, whatever you draw attention to, the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: loudest thing is the thing that you focus on. And
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I always tell my parents one get everything in writing.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: So even if you have a conversation in person, do
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a follow up. So I thank you for stopping and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: talking to me today. Here's what I took away from
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: our conversation. I think when parents ask for something, just
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: like we've been instructed in kind of the medical world
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to say, if you're refusing that test, I would like
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a document in my file. I think the same thing
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: happens for children. Right, we have to say, like, if
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you're refusing this testing, if you're refusing, you know, kind
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: of the things that I am asking for to see,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: you know, can we collect more data? Can we do
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: X y Z? I want that in writing, right, I
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: want something that supports the why. And so I would
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: say there's two parts of this. There's the asking and advocating,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and then there's the other part of what are your
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: rights as a parent and and really being clear and
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: upfront in those meetings and saying like, these are my
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: goals for my children, and do these goals that you
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: all are proposing aligned with that? A really realistic conversation
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: around that. I don't know that parents truly understand that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: they are the expert also in their children's world. They've
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: taken care of them. All educators aren't an expert. And
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: specially you can come to the table with as much
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: data as the school team is, you know.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I think because it doesn't often feel like we're part
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of the team, you know, and it's hard to rectify that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Like when I would show up at a school meeting,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it's just me and my husband couldn't necessarily get off
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: work most of the time, it wasn't feasible, and so
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: it was me and then a room full of school personnel,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and how do you walk into that situation and not
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: feel like you're not really part of the team. You
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: know feels and maybe that's a good question. How do
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: we walk in and create this culture that you had
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: talked about where we can be part of the team.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: How do we set that up?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think one thing parents should do prior
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: to you even walking into that meeting, right, is making
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: sure that you are equipped with everything that's going to
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: be discussed. So if you're reviewing an evaluation, if you're
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: reviewing new goals, then as a parent, you have a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: right to say I need that in advance because I
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: need to share that with my pediatrician, I need to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: share that with my advocate, I need to talk to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: my husband about that, or my child's you know, family members.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: And then also, you know I tell parents all the
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: time in this new age of technology, run that report
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: through chat GBT and say, explain this like a fourth
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: or fifth grader. Right, even if you love that are
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: an attorney, even if you are one one of the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: most highly qualified people in the United States, some of
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: that language is foreign if you are not specifically working
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: in special needs. So run that through some type of
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  Speaker 1: technology and say, explain to me what the outcomes will
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: be for my child, What these goals mean for my child.
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  Speaker 1: What is an example of a problem or you know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a math problem or a reading task that would be
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: applicable to this goal. Explain to me all these things,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and then also give me some questions to ask the team,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you know, asking for problems. Give me five questions to
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  Speaker 1: put in front of the team that will help me
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  Speaker 1: dissect if these goals are appropriate for my child. Yeah, right,
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  Speaker 1: So just coming equipped with some of that and saying, okay,
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  Speaker 1: I need this ten days in advance because I need
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to be able to review it, and then coming in
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: with your questions, your notes and all those things, and
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: asking the team, I'd like to review last year's goals.
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  Speaker 1: I need to make sure that we made mastery needs
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we're closing this gap that we
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: are seeing. And I also want to see current data.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Where are we on our benchmark assessments? How did they
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: score in state wide assessments? Did they make the growth
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that we are expecting based on the goals that we proposed?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Those are very important questions to ask. To show up
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: in a meeting and say like, hey, listen, we are
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: all here for Michelle, and Michelle's goal, her personal goal
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: is XYZ. I need to make sure this IP aligns
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and that data like, yeah, it's lacking. Honestly,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: you know, my kid went through thirteen years of school.
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  Speaker 2: Never once was I given data, and if I asked
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  Speaker 2: for it, it was like, oh, well, give us a
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: month to put that together, you know. And so I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: was constantly like, we're not meeting this goal, we're not measuring,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: like we're still struggling, and there was nothing. So I
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: don't want to use the term holding their feet to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the fire, but like, how do we say I need
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the data? We all need the data. It's not just
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: me the parent, but we all need to be seeing
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: if what we have determined is going to help this
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: kid get educated and learn is actually doing that or not.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean where I currently live, right, I'll say this.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: My daughter, who was my youngest child, who is not
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: in any way has a special education diagnosis or Nora divergence.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: She comes home with this dibble's data right every trimester
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: or every you know, three times a year, and you know,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes I even send it to my teacher friends and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, is she on talking? Like what does this mean?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: And I remember people saying like, so you've dibbled and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: now what right? Yeah? What does this mean? And so
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's important to say, like, I know that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you ask for my child to be on time and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: be fed in the morning and not be late for
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: those three days in September or October or January or February.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Where is that? When do I get a copy of that?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And so being really proactive around paying attention to you
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: took an exam today? Okay, so do you know how
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you did? Did your teacher give you that? Can you
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: email that to me? Because I need that for the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: IEP meeting. And so sometimes not waiting until right before
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the IEP meeting or at the IEP meeting makes sense.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not possible, but I think asking like, hey,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I know my child took some benchmark assessments and you're
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: using that to determine things for your school. I'm using
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that to determine things for my child, and just kind
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of saying I'm expecting that to come home every time
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and again when you are present and you're asking and
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: it doesn't get fulfilled. You know, sometimes I even myself.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I don't tell schools who I am. When my children
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: are there, I'm like, I don't tell them that I'm
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a special at consultant and that I know all these things.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: But when I ask for something and it's not fulfilled,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I start I start looking on the district's website, who's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the area superintendent, who's the executive director, who oversees this?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So that when I send this email and say, last month,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: on June fifteenth, I asked for this data, and thirty
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: days later, I've yet to receive it, And so I
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: just want to know. Should I expect mister John Smith
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to be helping me get that data?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so we're going outside of the school now
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: because you have a history of ignoring your parents, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: so I usually put that on a record. I don't
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: trust anything in person conversation without following up.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Always get it in writing, or always
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: chuck back in and say this is how I understood, yes,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: the outcomes of this meeting and who's going to do
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: what and how we're going forward yep. And that gives
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: them the opportunity to say no, you're misunderstanding, and it
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: gives you the opportunity to get it writing right that
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: follow through.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest tool is diligence, right, Like we
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: have to stay the course. We can't say, oh my god,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: they didn't respond in a certain time, so I'm gonna drop
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard. It's hard for parents. They don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: want to be that parent. They don't want to rock
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the boat. They don't want to look like they think
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: that their kid deserves more than other kids or any
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: of these things right that get in our way. So
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: it's really tough emotionally for a lot of parents. And
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: then you know, if you're a parent with anxiety or
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: like me, social anxiety, Like I was sick to my
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: stomach just going to a meeting with people I didn't
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: know right, So I was like off kilter already. But
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: then you focus on your kid and you get to
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a place where you're just like, all right, this is
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: what my kid needs, this is who my kid needs
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: me to be, and this is how I have to
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: show up for them and making it about our kids again,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: sort of refocusing there. If you've been listening for a while,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you're familiar with my back to school prep week where
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I set neurodivergent kids and their families for success right
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: when the school year starts. There's another podcast that will
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: help you navigate the rest of the school year. It's
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: called Opportunity Gap, and it's all about special education. Let's
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: be real, all those acronyms alone, I EP five, oh four, FBA,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: BP can be overwhelming. All you want is for your
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: kid to have the opportunity for success. Right you'll hear
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: from special educators, child psychologists, and other learning experts who
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: know their stuff and give you realistic advocacy tools. I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: listened to Opportunity Gap and I was blown away. Julian
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Savedra and his guests break it down in simple terms,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: highlight where to focus your energy, and give you simple
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: steps to advocate efficiently. So if you've ever walked out
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: of a school meeting wondering what just happened, go search
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: for Opportunity Gap in your podcast app. That's Opportunity Gap.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit more about data.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I want to backtrack just a second, because you talked
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: a lot about testing and benchmarks and things like that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: What other data can parents use or what other data
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: is appropriate to use when we're looking at goal setting
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and accommodations.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so good question. I think if you're going to
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the IEP meeting and you see these you know you've
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: gotten the documented bands, and you see these goals, and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: you're not sure where they came from. Right, those are
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: great questions to ask, but prior to even the IEP
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: meeting or even after throughout the course of the year.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So you're going to meet once a year for this IEP,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: right every three years for trianni or eligibility, But throughout
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the course of the year you want to say, like,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: you've given me a goal on the IEP. That's dou
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: July fourteenth, twenty twenty six. Say we had the IEP
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: meeting today. At some point you are expecting that they
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: are progress monitoring, right, They're maintaining some sort of data
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: that supports either we're progressing. You're getting a progress report,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: is it not introduced? Are we not progressing all those things?
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And so where is this data coming from? Progress reports
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: are a really good collection point, Right, you should get
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: one every quarter that's to focus solely on special ed.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: It should have the goals and whether it's introduced and
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: how they're doing in that. That's one piece of data.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Other pieces like benchmark assessments, map a net things like that.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Statewide assessments will be one piece of data. But I
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: would also ask that special ed teacher, so what assessment
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: or what pre or post tests are you giving that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: indicates growth on this goal? If you're spending time with
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: my child in the classroom, out of the classroom, are
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: you taking notes? Are you submitting something? What are you
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: collecting and where is that found? Yeah?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and things like examples of school work. Maybe you know.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: One thing that we struggled with as far as like
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: is this helping? Are we making progress on the school
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: side of things? Was help with executive functioning, planning and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: organizing right using some sort of calendar or planner, which
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: my kid never did and nobody could make him right,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: and making him wasn't the point anyway, But like that
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: was something that I would just get. It's ongoing, it's ongoing.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Like those progress reports that you mentioned that come with
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: a report card every quarter. Every goal just said ongoing
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: every time, and I'm like.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Like is their progress? This doesn't tell me anything? Like
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I even just stopped opening them. They were pointless because
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: they weren't telling me anything.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you can ask each teacher. You know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: you can say like, can I have a couple of
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: wor examples that they've done over the last couple of
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I just want to see, you know, if I'm getting
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the same thing at home that you're getting in school. Yeah,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: something as easy as that, right, YEA, Like when I'm
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: doing homework with them, I'm noticing their handwriting, or you
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: can have some sort of area of concern for you
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and the teacher usually will say, yeah, let me show you.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: You know, hopefully they're saying that, yeah, and you are
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: just putting that in a folder, collecting and saying, do
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I personally see improvement? Yeah?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And I learned like in the upper grades, middle
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: school and high school, when there was more than one teacher,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: they always wanted to send a representative of the team.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And after a couple of those, I was like, no,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: we need to find a time where everybody can be here. Yeah,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: because things get lost in translation from one teacher to another.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: They might add their own personal opinions about things and
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: color what they're sharing, right, And if that information even
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: got to every teacher, it was a miracle because they're
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: so overworked and there's so right like, there's so many
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: obstacles in the way of having a special education system
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that's actually what kids need to deserve. And I get that,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and it is part of the equation, even though it's
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: not supposed to be. Yeah, but it's like, then, how
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: do we keep going forward with that? You know? How
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: do we navigate where we are right now, what the
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: possibilities are right now, but also ensure that our kid
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: is getting the best education that they can. And it
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: can be such a struggle. And I think you know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: one of the things too, that I learned to do
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: early on was to come at it with a very
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: collaborative tone. I need your help, you honestly need my
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: help because I know this kid. I live with this kid, right,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: and how can we do this together?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Correct? Yeah, and really saying like, so, if you're having
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: issues or you have some questions or concerns, call me.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I always tell parents sometimes it's not the what, it's
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the how. And a lot of times for parents, we
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: go into a school environment once we're fed up. Yeah,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you know, we're already on ten and so that team
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: has come to expect that you don't have faith in them,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and maybe you don't, Okay, right, but some of this
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is I need to put expectations when my child starts
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the year. Let's sit down and talk. Here are the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: things that I know to be true about my child
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: in school and out of school, and here's what I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: can offer you in terms of support.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so important to be proactive because when you're
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: not proactive, you lose months. Oh of education and you
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: lose months. It takes you know, two to four weeks
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: for the teacher to be like, oh, there's something going
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: on here and this is a struggle, and then you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: maybe there needs to be evaluations and then that's a
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: sixty day clock, and like, you lose months if you
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: don't approach it at the beginning. And I think a
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: lot of parents fear giving the wrong impression of their
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: kid coming in and basically it's sounding like their kid's
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: going to be a troublemaker or really difficult, and we
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: don't want to do that. So how do we strike
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the balance there between the two with being proactive making
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: sure that we sort of hit the ground running, but
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: we're not sending the message that you're gonna have to
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: work much harder with my kid, or my kid's gonna
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: cause you problems or I'm gonna be in your face
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: all year or anything like that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think there's a couple of things. Right,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if your a child is starting a new school or
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a new grade, what I would do as a parent
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: of a child who has a five or four plan
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: or IEP, I would email that teacher start at school
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: before school and say, Hey, I'm Michelle's mom. I just
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: want to give you some background I'm attaching her IEP.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I love to sit down and talk with you if
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: there are any conference times available, just to kind of
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: talk about what went well last year, see if we
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: can can take you that and then you know, give
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: you give you some of the ins and outs so
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you don't have to learn her, you know, just purely
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: by yourself in the first few weeks of school. And
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I'd offer a home visit or even a zoom or
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I can come in and meet with you, or you
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: can meet her. So I'd be open to that initial like, hey,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I want success for you and her, right, yeah, this
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: is what this looks like. And I would be honest.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I would say, here are you know a couple of
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: triggers if she has some, and here are some things
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that we realize in quarter for quarter three of last
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: year that really work well. Do you have a system
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: that this might be incorporated in? Yeah, so just being
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: more curious. Right, the way we would be with our
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: children is like, if we want to know something, we
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: start asking various unassuming questions. I would say to that
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: teacher the same thing. I would just get very curious
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: about their method and if they have taught other children
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: with a similar pro file, what's worked for them. And
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: we don't know everything, but we know some and we
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: can share strategies. The other thing that I would say
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is that I notice, and I don't know if this
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: is a thing for you, but I notice that parents
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: tend to get more a little bit more frantic or
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: anxious in these gateway grades. So eighth grade, right, I'm
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: running out of time. My child is graduating soon, and
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they are going to be ready
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for graduation for twelfth grade. And so we start seeing
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the I end a meeting. I need a meeting. I
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: need to know what they're learning. I need to know
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: what they're doing. I need to know all those things.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And so if your child has an IEP in these
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, high school fourteen and up grades. Secondary transition
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: is super important. Right, What are this child's goals? What
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: are this parent's goals? What's the school's goals? So anticipating
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: more meeting time, more expiration, but I do see that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: there gets a little bit more. We're of an uptick
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: in where are we. We're running out of town. I'm
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: losing my child. They're going to go to college or
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: even a trade soon and I don't know that they
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: have skills?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right? Or if elementary school is this hard, middle
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: school is going to kill us. If middle school is
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: this hard, high school is going to kill us? You
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: know that?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Are we going to graduate from high school based on
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: what I know to be true about third through eighth grade?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Or are we looking at an extended do we need
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: until twenty two? What are my child's options? Right? What
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: if my child is electing not to go to college
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: or maybe they you know, the parent has a different
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: goal for them. What are my options within the district? Even?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And really asking about those options? You know, there
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: were times where I asked for things that I thought
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: for sure we're going to be a no, But I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: felt like I had to ask because they felt like
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the right thing. Like in high school, going to part
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: time in person and part time online at home because
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: that environment for eight hours a day was traumatizing my
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: kid and me and you know, and so and I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, they have said no to far,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: far less than this. This is not going to be
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: a conversation I win. And then they were like, oh, yeah,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: let's explore that because at that point they saw and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I have to say too, we had an ally and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: administration at that point. Yeah, And I was very intentional
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: in creating that.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I needed somebody really got my kid, and that was
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: an important thing. And that's why I tell parents all
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: the time, Like, first thing, when you enter a new
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: school building, you've got to cultivate an ally. You've got
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to cultivate someone who your kid can go to when
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: they're freaking out. And they're not going to say, but
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to be in class, correct, They're going to say,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: how can I help you? What do you need? Right,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: We've got to find those people for our kids.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just to touch on that, I think
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I also think that we need to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: find that for ourselves. We parents show up very emotional
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: when we feel that our child has missed something that
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: other children have access to, that they should have gotten,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: something that other children have received, you know, or that
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: we're running out of time, or something has happened with
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the IEP. A lot of times we need to bring
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: either an advocate or a family member or someone who
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: equally who knows that child just as well, but can
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: speak from a very non emotional space, like you know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: these are our goals, these are Michelle's goals. You know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: as a student and as a school we see you trying.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: But here's where we feel like there's a gap that
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: has to be bridged. Oftentimes, once parents are emotionally entwined
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and they don't have the best interest for my child
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: or they're missing this, there is this this tense meeting
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that happens that almost you could lose your ally, You
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: can lose your lose your team that way, and a
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: lot of times you need that team. They're spending as
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: much time with their child as you are, right, you
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: need them to be on We're pushing kids to and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: through right and keeping at the back of my mind
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Michelle is saying she wants to do something with her hands,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like what do we have here? Or you know, just
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: whatever the thing is, she wants to be a nurse. Okay,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: so we have an allied health. Let's even get our
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: mentor who's already gone through that program, you know, having
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: someone who has kind of a top of the mind.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: What are some of the ways even if they're not
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: ready for this? What's the first step? And like you said,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it may not always be the staff, Yeah, yeah.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Or it could be you know, the custodian is the ally,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: it could be any friendly adult in the building can
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: be your kid's ally. Before we close, I want to
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: just ask you really quickly. I know they're going to
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: be parents listening who feel like they've hit a wall.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they've just hit the wall and they don't
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: know what to do anymore. Do you have some words
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: of hope that you can offer? Can you give us
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: like the first one tiny step that they can take.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, if you feel like you've hit a wall
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and you're really really frustrated, you're worried for your child,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and or don't feel like the team is really hearing you,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is gather all your
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: documents as far back as you can go, every eval,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: every IEP, every piece of data, request the cumulative file
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: even and I would say, look up advocacy groups or
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: special education groups in your city, town, area, state, whatever
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: it is, and reach out to them and just see, like,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: how can I get more support from my child and
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: what does this look like? And they may be able
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to even if they are you know, out of your
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: price range or booked, you know, completely booked up, and
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: may be able to offer resources that your school may
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: not give you. So I would say that one the
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: first thing is to gather all your documentation and then
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: look up some resources and start talking to some folks.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Good advice, Good advice, Michelle. Will you tell everybody where
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: they can go online to learn more about you, the
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: work you do, to connect with you, to learn more
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: from you, all that good stuff.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Sure? So. You can always find me on my website
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: which is Fairgreenconsulting dot com. I do a couple of
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: little parent rants on TikTok from time to time. I'm
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Olivia Pope of special led over there, and I have
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a decoding special education series that you can be linked
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: through my website to join. It has a newsletter for
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: parents as well as some courses on getting more familiar
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: with special education topics.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Nice, and I only all that up in the show
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: notes for everybody, so it's really easy to get to
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: and that's upparenting ADHD and autism dot com slash three
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: two five. Think we could talk all day about this.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: There's so much more to share, but this I think
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: has been a great sort of springboard for parents who
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: are feeling stuck or feeling down about, you know, having
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: to continue to fight so hard. And I really appreciate that.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the work that you're doing, and it's been
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: really lovely to chat with you.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I loved being here. And as a school year starts,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: just keep up the fight. You're your child's biggest evocate.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Thank you so much. I will
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: see everybody next time. Take good care. I see you.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: share it with someone who needs it and leave a
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: quick review so others can find this support too. When
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: here with the tool, coaching, and community to help you
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: regulated kids dot com.