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“Hasn’t Waco Been Through Enough?” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump warns his indictment could lead
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to violence and celebrates the January 6th attacks in Waco, Texas.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: DeSantis-curious Republicans are already down on Tiny D. And later,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki stops by to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: talk about the Republican primary, Joe Biden's 2024 strategy, and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: her new show on MSNBC. Speaking of shows, love it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I hear you're going back out on tour.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Love or leave, it's going back on tour. You can
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: get tickets right now. We're in the middle of the presale. Crooked.com
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: slash events. The code is errors because it is the
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: errors tour.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Do you get it?
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Errors.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Do you get it?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Do you get it? It's our errors tour.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Didn't get it until today, but now I get it.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Tommy's a recently converted Swifty.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: He has his midriff exposed for all of us to see.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: We are going to be traveling across the country. We're
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: going to go to some places where it feels good
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: to be gay, some places where it could feel better.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: And we're going to raise money for Vote Save America's
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Fuck bands, colon, leave queer kids alone, parentheses, and adults,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and all of us, you absolute freaks, end parens, fund.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: A lot of brainstorming around that title.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we could have tronked it, but we didn't. We
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: didn't tronk it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: So you're going to be on the road for a while.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: You're going to be out of the office?
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: You bet.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: All right. We'll miss you.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Any chance you add some shows? Yeah, I guess you
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: guys will have to figure out a way to make
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: conversation between noon and three.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Quirkit.com slash events. Go get your tickets. All right, let's
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: get to the news. Donald Trump held his first big
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: rally of the 2024 election in Waco, Texas this weekend,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: right in the middle of the 30th anniversary of the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: deadly standoff between federal agents and occult that right-wing extremists
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: still view as a symbol of government overreach.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I also, just kind of, I'm sorry to interrupt, but
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I do think this, before we even get into it,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to cover it while we talk. I
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: think people are reading too much into Trump going to Waco,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: thinking it's about federal government violence, when he just think
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: it was cool that David Koresh fucked all those guys' wives.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, did not, yeah. I thought you were going to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: make like a cult joke, but that was interesting.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: David Koresh did do that, though.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Sorry, keep going.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Everyone know who David Koresh is out there in our audience?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: That was the Waco thing, right?
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we were the Branch Davidians.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: A bunch of older millennials.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: That happened in 93. 30 years.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while. The twice-impeached Republican frontrunner played
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: footage of the violent insurrection he incited at the rally
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: before it started. You always want to start the rally
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: with just some January 6th footage behind you. You play
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the hits, right? They also played the song he recorded
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: with a group of men who've been imprisoned for their
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: role in the January 6th attack.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: The J6 choir.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: The J6 choir.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Please name them.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, the fourth tenor.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: You know, you have to joke about.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: It because what else are you going to do?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: What are you going to do? Trump also talked about
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: his potential indictment for the first time. We're waiting for it.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It's coming any minute.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Andy, you're going to let us know if it happens
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: during the pod, right, Olivia?
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: Okay, great.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: When he finally gets arrested, he's going to be like, ah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I called that a week ago. Old news.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Anyway, here's how he talked about it at the rally.
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: The Department of Injustice in Washington, D.C. was investigating me
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: for something that is not a crime, not a misdemeanor,
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: not an affair.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I never liked horse face. I never liked. It's just not.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: It's a terrible thing. That wouldn't be the one.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: Legal scholars can't believe what they're witnessing. And yet, after
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: going over 11 million pages of documents, they've got nothing.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: It probably makes me the most innocent man in the
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: history of our country. Friends of mine say that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: They're not coming after me.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: They're coming after you, and I'm just standing in their way,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to be standing in their way for
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a long time. You will be vindicated and proud, and
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the thugs and criminals who are.
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Corrupting our justice system will be defeated, discredited, and totally disgraced.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: That's what's happening.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: From the beginning, it's been one witch hunt and phony
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: investigation after another. Either the deep state destroys America or
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: we destroy the deep state.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: That's the way it's got to be.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: That's the bumper sticker right there.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: The first clip of him sounded like someone doing an
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: impression of him. It really got that kind of rumbling grumble.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: It's going to be really hard to tell the real
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Trump from the AI Trumps.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll work on that.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So Trump said all of this after last week's truths
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: where he threatened that there could be, quote, death and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: destruction if he's indicted. And then another truth posted a
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: picture of him waving a baseball bat next to Manhattan
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who, by the way, has now
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: received death threats, including a letter threatening to kill him
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: with a pottery substance that's still being tested. How concerned
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: are you guys about the potential for violence if Trump
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: is indicted? We've talked a lot about sort of the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: legal case, the politics. We haven't talked a lot about
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the potential violence yet.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's also a bomb threat at the courthouse.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: The Trump fora on the internet, already a pretty hellish place,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: has gotten pretty violent. The letter with the white powder said, Alvin,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to kill you, followed by many exclamation points,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: which you'd think you could just use a period when
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you include the white powder.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Well, no, not in 2023, because for a certain cohort-
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: It seems passive aggressive. It's passive aggressive. Every sentence is
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: exclamation point at this point. So that's probably what that is.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I am quite concerned about violence. I am, I think,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: heartened by the fact that the initial call for protests
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: were met with mockery from some people on the far right.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: They're like, uh-uh, we got arrested last time. This dude
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: hung us out to dry.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: But it only takes one deranged person. And, you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: in Cincinnati, a few days after the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: a Trump supporter showed up at the field office with
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: a rifle and was killed.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the, you know. We've already been through Trump
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: at the height of his power, causing a January 6th
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: that wasn't able to do anything to disrupt our government,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: but did do a lot of damage and hurt and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: killed a lot of people. He can do the same
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: thing here. It just takes one person having their radio
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: tuned to the Trump frequency to show up and cause
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: some chaos, which is clearly what he wants, which is
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: why he's escalating. He was disappointed with the response, so
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: he needs to sort of turn the heat up.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just feel like that.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: To your point, Tommy, about how some of them are
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: worried because the last group of people who did this
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: got arrested.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I do think that's like, you know, a lot of
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: them on social media are warning that this is like
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: an FBI. These protests in favor of Trump would just
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: be an FBI trap that they're just hoping to get
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: people to those protests so that they can arrest them.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: But it does show that like what the federal government
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and law enforcement did after January 6th. is a deterrent.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: It's currently a deterrent for all these people.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Locking up violent protesters is a deterrent or violent insurrectionists rather.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Which is why it was so important that that happened.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: And it does also matter that Trump does not currently
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: have the ability to pardon any of these people.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And I also think, by the way, that like, you know,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Dan and I talked on Thursday about how, you know,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden obviously doesn't want to be getting into the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: legal analysis of this case or talking about the case
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and other Democrats. But I do think, and you've seen
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: some of them do this already, that speaking out about
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Trump trying to incite violence again is probably an important
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: thing for a lot of Democrats to do. And I
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: don't think that Joe Biden needs to, like, plan a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: speech about it. But if asked about it, I sure
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: would make a comment.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, Trump called Alvin Bragg at
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: the Waco event absolute human scum. And that's just that
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: is textbook dehumanizing language. And language like that historically has
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: been a prelude to violence of some sort. So even
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: if it's par for the course for Trump.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think Biden elevated this issue in the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: run-up to the midterms, and I think it was the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: right thing to do. It was the smart thing to do,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and it also lets people know that this threat is serious,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and it's not just Trump spouting off, which it can
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: be easy to think. Why do you guys think Trump
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: and MAGA politicians are so obsessed with the January 6th rioters?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Last week, Marjorie Taylor Greene and some others led a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: CODEL to visit us. To visit January 6th writers in jail.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are like these are his shock troopers.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You know, these are the ones he could count on
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: in his darkest hours to travel to D.C. and in
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: some cases physically fight for him. And I think I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: think what Lovett said earlier is right. I mean, there
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: is this narrative out there that he's abandoned them. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I bet he's worried he didn't pardon them. He just
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: recently dropped a single when he was working with Kanye
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: for months.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: On this track, you know? And so, you know, I
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: think it's part of like knowing your audience. And back
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: to the location of the rally in Waco. I mean,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: a huge slice of the Republican base has this fetish
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: for these right-wing anti-government groups. David Koresh in the Waco
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: standoff was a source of inspiration for them. Timothy McVeigh,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: the Oklahoma City bomber who killed 168 people, said that
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: his terrorism was retribution for the Ruby Ridge and Waco standoffs.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: The quote was, I wanted the government to hurt like
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the people of Waco and Ruby Ridge. And so, you know,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: they can say that this was an accident. The lieutenant
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, was like, oh, Waco is
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: centrally located. That's why we told him to go there.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Do you believe that? I don't believe that.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It's like a message. Why it's such a bustling metropolis.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: in the city. It's why the biggest city in Texas,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: because it's so centrally located, right?
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Where all the votes are. Yeah.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: It's, uh, I also do it just for that rally. It,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: you know, we'll talk about who didn't and didn't get applause,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: but the person who gets the most applause was actually
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Mike Lindell, which tells you that like, this is a
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: group of people, they want their worldview to be perfect.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: And the only way their worldview can remain perfect and
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: like unsullied by any nuance or controversy or sense in
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: which they might not have all the answers if these
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: January 6th insurrectionists aren't political prisoners. So they have to
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: be political prisoners because that's the only way this whole
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: story makes sense.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, I think and I think that's what
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Trump is doing. He wants to muddy the waters on
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: his greatest political vulnerability, which is, you know, attempting a
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: coup and inciting an insurrection. It would take down any
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: normal candidate. Hopefully, you know, Teflon Don. But I also
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: think for all of these, everyone in the MAGA movement here,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: like grievance politics depends on these people being seen as
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: victims of persecution, specifically elite persecution and not perpetrators of violence, right?
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So they always have, in order to be aggrieved, in
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: order for this to work, they always have to be
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the victims of some plot.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Trump's entire stump speech is about how corrupt and incompetent
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: and in some cases evil the government is. And the
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: message is very, And I imagine that kind of message
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: resonates with this audience and with the defense of an
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: event like Waco or an event like January 6th. I
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: remember Clive Bundy, the rancher who had a standoff with
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: federal agents like he got tons of support from Republican
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: elected officials. Some of this like useful idiots like Ted
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Cruz and Rand Paul, but also from Dean Heller spoke
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: out like someone who we think of as sort of
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: a never Trump moderate. So, yeah, I mean, you know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Trump is like fanning these flames very much. these events.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: The elites are out to get you. The federal government's
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: out to get you. They have guns. They're coming for you.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: That's why you should have guns. I mean, this is
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a whole.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: You have Tucker on every night using the footage that
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: McCarthy gave him to tell a story that isn't true
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: about the fact that it was just a couple tours
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: run amok. And Trump shouted that out at the Waco event.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: So everything is feeding back to this idea that they
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: are being unjustly held and prosecuted.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Because it was an insurrection.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Because Trump won.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I learned in prepping for the show that Roger Stone
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: dedicated his 2015 book to, in part, the Branch Davidians
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: who died at Mount Carmel.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: That is wild.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: That's a deep cut right there.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: How was the rest of the book? Get past the
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: fucking dedication. To my beloved wife.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: And to the Branch Davidians, yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So Trump got plenty of criticism for all this violent rhetoric,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: even from some of his Republican supporters and MAGA media friends.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: What do you think are, now that we've talked about
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: how terrifying all of this is, what do you think
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: are the political implications of making his various investigations and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: potential indictments the centerpiece of his campaign? He basically said
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the weaponization process He did say the weaponization of the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Justice Department is the central issue of our time. So
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the political implication. Let's start with the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: primary and then we can talk about the general.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So I watched the Waco remarks. It was, what, a
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: full 45 minutes of this, of this grievance stuff? Just endless, endless, endless.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And I was so zoned out by the time I
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: got to the end of the deep state section that
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that I was halfway through the paragraph where he hit DeSantis,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and I had to roll it back, because I was like, wait,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: when did he get out of his fucking personal vendettas?
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: What speed were you doing?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I was at 1.75, thank you for asking.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: I did two.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Well, then you slow it back. You slow to one,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and he sounds like he's losing it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he sounds drunk.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: He really sounds slow and drunk. But he basically speaks
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: like this for 45 minutes, and he goes, and so
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: that's why they're attacking me, For you.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Rings a bit hollow.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable. And so no wonder the audience basically
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was dead silent through the remaining 45 minutes of his
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: speech where he actually got to the message that his
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: people are trying to get him to deliver.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. We've gone through sort of this cycle where
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: for a while, basically all of last year and in
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the wrap to the midterms, every Trump speech was all
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: about Trump and 2020 and how the election was stolen
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: from him. And then like he went on this little
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: burst of you know, I'm going to announce extreme right-wing
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: policy to get to the right of DeSantis on all
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: this culture war stuff. I'm going to talk about policy
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And now he is, this speech, he's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: just got right back into like, it's 80% me, grievance, 2020, insurrection,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: now my prosecution, indictments, all that kind of stuff. And
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like 20% other shit. Yeah.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: And he gets to the message, which is the anti-DeSantis,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the pro-Trump anti-DeSantis policy message is the one he put
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: in that long statement he put out about DeSantis, which
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is like a very tough and very sort of clearly
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: well thought out hit on DeSantis. And he ran through
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: it in full. But by the time he got there,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: these people have been standing out in the sun for hours.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: He's Trump. The plane landed and he sits there for
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: half an hour on the plane having lunch, doesn't give
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: a fuck what happens.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: To these people. And did you notice how he does
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: the full speech? And then they play this new sort
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: of soundtrack, this sort of orchestral movement. And then he
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: just sums the whole thing up for like another seven
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: to ten minutes and does it all again. But John,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: to your point about like primary versus general message, I mean,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I just think Donald Trump views every war as just
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: a series of short term battles, and he doesn't really
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: care about the day after that. And so in the primary,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: this does let him get back to just dominating every
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: news cycle. And now everything, once again, is a litmus
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: test about how much other Republicans are supporting him against
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: this unfair, like deep state movement against him. And, you know, notably,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: one of the biggest applause lines at the Waco event
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: was an attack on Mitch McConnell. And then it's followed
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: up by Marjorie Taylor Greene getting like rapturous applause. Nobody
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: cares that Mitch McConnell has done more to advance the
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: things they ostensibly care about than any other Republican alive
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: and that she has done nothing. So if he wins
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: the nomination, I think like this kind of crap is
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: what moderate voters will not like or at least like
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: least about him. But we'll see.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, the latest polling from January of this year,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: right after the anniversary of January 6th, uh, day for
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: progress showed, uh, 74% of all voters think Trump supporters
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: did the wrong thing by inciting violence and threatening our democracy.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: 17% think it was the right thing to stand up
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: for Trump and overturn the election results.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: It's overwhelming, but you'd love that 74 to be higher.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I know. Well, among, but then among Republicans voters, 61%
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: thought it was wrong. 27% thought it was right, which
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: among Republicans, probably better than I expected. Still awful. So
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: it is a fuck. It is a loser in the general.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Like we just went through, A midterm election where all
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of the election denier candidates who are extreme did poorly,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: where Trump was blamed for a lot of these losses,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: where like extremism celebrating January 6th, talking about the stolen election.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: It was just a loser for Republican candidates.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and also he's getting he's getting some, I think,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: unhelpful feedback from what this crowd likes. I mean, this
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: these are the these are Internet adults. goons and dead enders.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: These are people with gold under the stairs, just absolute
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: lost fucking souls out there for five hours.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: You sure that's the wrong move right now?
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: The Grateful Dead had roadies, but the people who went
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: to the Waco show, those were the diehards. Did you
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: see him at Waco?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: It was amazing.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: You weren't at Waco.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: No.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about 23 Waco, not 93 Waco.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Scarfire at Waco is incredible. The true fans are at
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: 2023 Waco.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: Did you drop acid at Waco Trump event? Yeah, of
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: course I did.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I will say on Thursday's pod, Dan and I were
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: talking about like what the potential indictment might, what effect
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: it might have in a Republican primary. And I was
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: saying that like there could be two reactions from sort
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of DeSantis curious voters, right? People who are open to
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: an alternative to Trump, right? And one could be, well,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: this is all about electability. More indictments for Trump means
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: even more baggage. Can't we just get Trump without the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: baggage and nominate DeSantis? Or it could be, you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: The liberal elite institutions in the deep state are out
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: to get Trump and we have to defend Trump, even
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: if we think maybe he's not that maybe maybe we're
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: tired of Trump. We're going to stand by him. And
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: sure enough, semaphore at the rally interviews this 55 year
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: old Latina woman who said she'd been flirting with voting
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for DeSantis, but was disappointed in his response to Trump's
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: potential indictment and would now keep her vote with Trump.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: I think we were talking about this on Pod Save
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: the World. It's a great show that comes out on Wednesdays.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: We talked about all sorts of foreign policy news. Seems
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: like you.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Veered sort of into other shows' territory there.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: No, Max Fisher, the newest contributor here at Crooked Media,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: talked to some political scientists and looked at the landscape
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: of countries that have or have not prosecuted presidents. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: they said that where it was effective was often more
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: developed democracies when the list of charges kept adding up
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: and up and up and up. And people were finally like, okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: like Jacob Zuma in South Africa, like there were like
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: 13 charges against him. And people were like, all right, well,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: he's got to be guilty of one of these.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe, so these are diehards.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that that woman that some of four interviewed
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: is reflective of what you guys were just saying, which
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: is the feedback he's getting from the folks at these rallies.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: These are the biggest.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I also do think we are, uh, we are, it
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: is March of, of 2023. We're, almost a year out
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: from any actual voting. And there's a difference between, yeah,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: of course I support them, and it's getting close, I
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: support them, and I'm going to cast my vote for
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: this person.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Well, just to get into the primary a little bit more,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Trump also continued to go after Tiny D at the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Waco rally, who is currently his only real primary threat.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But the crowd wasn't really into Trump's DeSantis impression. Let's listen.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: When a man comes to me, tears in his eyes,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: he's at almost no in the polls. And I said,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I can't give you an endorsement. There's no way you
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: can win.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: You're dead.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I said, you can't win, can you? How do you
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: can win? Sir, if you endorse me, I'll win. Please, please, sir,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: endorse me. And I said, all right, let's give it
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a shot.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I've heard him say this
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a couple other times, and it's a classic Trump. He starts,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: he almost had tears in his eyes. Now it's, he
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: did have tears in his eyes. Next week it'll be like.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: He was on the top of the bridge.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: He couldn't breathe.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: He was on the top of the bridge, and I said,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: get down, Ron. Get down, Ron. I'll endorse you. You're
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: going to jump off Epcot.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: So the crowd's muted reaction was noted by many media outlets,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: including none other than Fox News. Right-wing pundit Mark Levin tweeted, quote,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: conservatives don't like or want the personal mocking. Yeah, right.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: You guys buy that?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: They love it. They love the personal mocking.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: These guys are out there. Look, this is not to me.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: People can read whatever they want, but what I saw
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: was a crowd that was bored as fucking hell. Just
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: like truly done.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Also, what's most interesting to me is the coverage of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the response is muted versus the reality of when I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: finally listened to the clip, like, There were some giggles
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and laughing. It's not the stage, to your point about
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: it only being March, it's not the stage of the
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: primary yet where any crowd is going to start clapping
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: and applauding for a hit on another candidate of the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: same party. That's always the case in primaries, at least
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: at the beginning.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: He's softening them up.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: He's warming them up. I mean, pretty soon they'll treat
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: him like Mitch McConnell. It'll be like, cocaine Ron, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: wouldn't support me.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Photos with those girls!
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: What was that about?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know! That's what's coming.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: It's getting better.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I do think it's fascinating, though, that that Fox, Mark Levin,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: there was also a, like an editorial in the New
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: York Post saying that like, what is Trump doing? He's
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: inciting violence.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Interesting. Murdoch properties going all in.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting that the Murdoch properties are going all
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: in on DeSantis.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Well, he's, you know, you know, Rupert's just recently got engaged.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: He's feeling kind of jovial, thinking about maybe he's not
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: as interested in a fascist takeover of global democracy.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about DeSantis, who's hit a
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: bit of a rough patch before his campaign has even begun.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Guy hasn't announced, already pronounced dead.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I'm frustrated, but I am frustrated that I have to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: be frustrated on behalf of Ron DeSantis.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I know. That's the troubling dynamic.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: It sucks.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. All right, so here's a sampling
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of stories from over the weekend. Ron DeSantis' donors and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: allies question if he's ready for 2024, NBC News. Some
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Republicans fear that their non-Trump savior is showing signs of faltering, Politico.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: DeSantis looks to revamp strategy amid signs of political strain,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: The Hill. And, but, a new set of public opinion
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: strategies polls showed DeSantis leading Trump by eight points in
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Iowa and tied in New Hampshire, though when you throw
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: in the rest of the field, he's tied in Iowa
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and trailing in New Hampshire by double digits. But DeSantis
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: does have the best favorability rating of any candidate in
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: those polls, including Trump, And most other polls, national polls,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: have shown that as well. So what do you guys
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: think is going on here?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So you dig into this and it is there's really
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: nothing there. There's really nothing to justify this level of
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: of like narrative shift. You can say, all right, there
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: was a Ukraine gaffe. That's absolutely true. There was he
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: sort of fucked up Ukraine, a Ukraine answer, and then
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: did some cleanup. Is that what we'll be talking about?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Said his carefully written statement was misinterpreted. It was a questionnaire.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It was a questionnaire.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Again, Tucker Carlson offered a foreign policy questionnaire and he
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: filled it out and then was like, how could you
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: mistake my record? How could you take that out of context?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. But so he's doing cleanup there. We will be
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: talking about that statement in a year.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: That DeSantis went from darling to dud because Trump sucked
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: up the oxygen by attacking him. Which suggests, like, when
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: you said he was going to be the Trump slayer,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: did you think that was going to happen without Trump
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: ever noticing?
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Like, Trump is doing exactly what everybody would expect Donald
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Trump to do, and it's having an effect that everybody
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: would expect it to have. If that means DeSantis' campaign
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: has stumbled, it means it was never going to succeed.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: So that doesn't make any sense. And then the third
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: piece of it is that DeSantis didn't go hard enough
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: at Trump when he was potentially being indicted, but also
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: DeSantis took the bait by going after Trump because of
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the potential indictment. Those to me are sort of the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: three main points, none of which is to me a
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: real critique. And all of them are just sort of
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: what was going to happen at this stage. It feels
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: like everything is just basically static.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Tommy?
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Look, it's obviously not a good thing for a politician
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to do their big book rollout and their national press
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: tour and then see their national polling numbers just collapse.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's not great. I don't know why it happened.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: I think with these early state polls, Axios leading with
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: the head-to-head numbers is so stupid. It is not going
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: to be a head-to-head contest in Iowa or New Hampshire.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: And in some sense, when you look at this not
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: as a head-to-head contest, the numbers look pretty static from
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: where Trump was in 2016. You know, like 39% in
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: New Hampshire is very similar to the 35% Trump got
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: in New Hampshire in 2016. So I'm just like, maybe
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: we're all just like making too much of a bunch
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: of polling from some random Republican firm that got leaked
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: to Axios and misleadingly framed would be kind of my takeaway.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I would just.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: What I see is a race that has not really shifted.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And I see DeSantis was the Trump slayer. Then DeSantis
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: campaign stumbles out of the gate. And now we are
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: set up for DeSantis, the comeback kid, which will happen
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: And I do think that- Will it happen before he
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: even announces his campaign, which is at the earliest is
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: going to be June?
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And all of this to me is like, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: you look at the, I think you have to look
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: at the trend in polling. And the only thing I
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: see is in polling that shows DeSantis doing a little
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: bit better than in early states than he is nationally,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: is it tells you that the Trump support nationally is soft.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And it does remind me of a lot of the
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: polling we saw in early 2007, where you had Giuliani
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: leading nationally, but you actually had McCain and Romney and
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Huckabee doing far better in Iowa and New Hampshire. And
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you had Hillary Clinton leading 100% every single poll.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Literally until September.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Until September and really mostly through the rest of September too. Nationally,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: basically everything. And then in Iowa, it was actually Edwards
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and Hillary going back and forth, but ultimately Obama taking
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the lead there. And so it shows me that I
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: think the race is actually pretty static and Trump has
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the lead, but it is soft. That's how I see it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: On the polling, to Tommy's point, you can't take one
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: poll from one firm as gospel. You can't take many
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: polls from many firms as gospel. But From here on out,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you should always pay more attention to the state polls
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: than the national polls. What the national polls are useful
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: for is, as Lovett just said, trends. And, you know,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Nate Cohn did a piece in The New York Times
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: about this. All in all, DeSantis has gained about four
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: points on average over the last month that warrants all this,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: you know, crazy narrative shifting. So I'm with you. I
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: think it's a pretty static race. Dan had an interesting
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: theory in his message box today about all this. which
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: is that Trump is just better at getting attention than
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: DeSantis or that anyone, maybe anyone that's ever been in politics.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: And I think at this stage in the primary, the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: candidate getting the most attention tends to do better in
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the polls. That's also partially explains the discrepancy between national
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: polls where he's far out ahead and state polls where
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: people have more to go on. than just a national
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: media narrative because they're starting to meet DeSantis and see
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: more local coverage about these candidates.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: The men feel connected to their vote, the importance of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: their vote as an early state voter. Like national polls
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: right now showing that Trump is leading to me is
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: a very soft support for someone they want to rally
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: behind because he's under attack by some Soros-backed liberal fucks
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: in New York.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: The quote that jumped out at me in this New
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: York Times story about the Waco event was from a
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: guy named Jeff Fiebert, who's like a farmer, who's a
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: dire Trump person. He said, I like DeSantis, I do,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: but the ground that needs to be covered is going
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: to take Trump to get it done. And that Trump
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: reminds him of the kind of person who goes into
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: the bar and knocks all the bottles off the shelf
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: just to see where they land. That, to me, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: thought was like a pretty good summary because this felt
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: like DeSantis wasn't that kind of guy. And a lot
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: of these Trump voters just want a nominee who will
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: kick the shit out of the people they hate the most, too.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Right? Yeah.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Liberals, the media, the deep state. That's where I think.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: To the extent that I think DeSantis has screwed something up,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: I think that Republicans want a fighter. Trump is beating
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: the crap out of him, and he's not fighting back.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: And I know he's in a tough situation, but I
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: don't think that's a great look for him in terms
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: of voters who want someone who goes into a bar
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: and knocks the bottles.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Off the shelf. I think the big question in this primary,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: which is why I still, in my heart of hearts,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: can't predict who's going to win this thing, is I
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: think there is a cohort of voters who who are
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: exactly as Tommy described. And I think they make up
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the core of Trump's base. I think there's a core
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: of voters who've decided they're done with Trump. They don't
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: want anymore. And then I think there's a key group
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of voters in the middle here who were like, much
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: like that woman that was interviewed at the rally, who
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: were like, you know, I love Trump, always will love Trump.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of open to someone else, kind of worried
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: that he's not going to be able to win again.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And I'm not sure for them, the fighting thing is
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: as important as it is to the Trump base voters.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: But I do think what's important to them is like
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: getting to know Ron DeSantis and seeing him and stuff
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: like that. And Trump's just going to blot that out, particularly,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I guess, if all these indictments come.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: When I was just going back and looking at the
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: polling from 2007 to 2008, one thing that pops up
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: is McCain for a while was counted out, yet Giuliani leading,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: maybe Romney was going to take it. But then all
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, as you head into the fall, there
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: was a bunch of polling that started to show that
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: McCain was the strongest general election candidate. that Romney was
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: getting destroyed by Edwards and even Clinton. But McCain was
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: always the strongest general election candidate. As we get closer,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I think the electability argument starts to play in. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: that's where whatever's going on with whatever attacks they want
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: to launch against the judicial system, the fact that Trump
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: being under indictment starts to become a liability with independents
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: starts to sink, get into the conversation. And Ron DeSantis
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: gets to start making an argument about electability and stability
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: that will carry more weight as we get closer.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: Let's just say, if you have a, if you have
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: a nominee on March 27, 2023, you're a weirdo. Most
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: of the country does not care. They have not chosen.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: These are like the diehards that we're talking about. The
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: one thing in this story that did jump out at
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: me is relevant is the big donors, positive contributions. There's
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: the Uline family, this like right wing billionaire family that
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: just pumps money into the worst causes you could ever imagine.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: It did sound like they are pausing on their checks,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: according to some outlet. I forgot who reported it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I also thought, and there's some real galaxy brain takes
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: going on here from some of these Republicans in the
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: NBC story. There was one Republican operative who said DeSantis
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: should have said in response to the potential Trump indictment,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: under no circumstances will the free state of Florida allow
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: this political prosecution to take place. And then according to
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that Republican operative, that would have made DeSantis look like
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the alpha candidate. And Trump looked like the beta because DeSantis,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to your point, then DeSantis would have been the tough
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: guy because he can protect Donald Trump and it would
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: have driven Trump crazy. I was like, what is that?
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: This is a Charlie Kirk thing. Charlie said Florida should
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: be a sanctuary state for Trump.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: But the idea that that somehow helps DeSantis is just
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: like a lot.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Alpha. Anyone who says alpha, it's just like. people, these
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: like Jordan Peters and broken brain people.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it does. It does. It does resonate with certainly
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: a portion of that base. To your point about the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: electability argument, love it. It's hard for DeSantis to make
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: that argument right now, too, because if you look at
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the polls, like some polls, he's performing slightly better than
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump against Joe Biden. Some he's not. Now, if
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: we get into Trump under, you know, with multiple investigations
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and potentially multiple indictments, down the road and Trump's out
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: there on the national news every day saying crazy shit.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: And then you start doing general election polls and Joe
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Biden's leading Trump by a good deal and DeSantis is closer.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Then he can start making that argument. It's just a
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: harder argument for him to make right now. It's too early.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: We will talk about this and more with Jen Psaki
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: right after this. Joining us now, former White House press
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: secretary and current host of Inside with Jen Psaki, which
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: airs Sundays at noon Eastern on MSNBC, our old pal
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Jen Psaki. Jen, welcome back.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: Hi, guys. How you doing?
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Good. This is your first PSA appearance after the White House, right?
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: You haven't done one.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: That is true. And I am I'm now wearing jeans
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: and I'm feeling a lot more casual and laid back.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: So there you go.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: A transition of sorts.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Saki, congrats on the monster ratings for the first episode.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Monster.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: One episode down, guys. Many to go.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Let's do a second episode.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know. How many episodes have you guys done?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: You could give me a little advice.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: So many.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Most are pretty forgettable.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: But now we've got it down, you know?
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Trump, bad.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Trump is so bad, but you can't take it for granted.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: That's the key thing. Gotta stay in the fight.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Trump, we were just talking about him celebrating
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the insurrection at his Waco rally and threatening violence if
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: he's indicted. Fair to say that probably doesn't play well
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: in the general, but do you think that's a winning
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: message in a Republican primary? What was your reaction to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the weekend's events?
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: I mean... Sometimes I feel like people say things on
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: television or just in general, like, look at Trump. He's
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: just ahead of all of us. He's playing three dimensional
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: chess or whatever analogy is used. And at the end
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: of the day, playing footage from the insurrection. He also
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: had January 6th participants do a performance. It was recorded,
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: but that was also a part of the rally in Waco.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: Which I think somebody from his campaign said something like,
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know if they said it was a coincidence
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: or something along those lines. Whatever it was, it just
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: didn't ring to be true. And it's so on the nose,
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: the analogy of Waco, given that it was a religious
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: cult or a cult, you know, and there was a
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: standoff with law enforcement. It's like he's sending this huge
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: message from all of this craziness to his people. I
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: think that's clearly what he's doing.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think that it is magical, amazing politics, just
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: like I don't think his his according to his campaign
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: that him wanting to do a perp walk and get
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: photos and make that be a big moment seems like
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: great politics to me. I don't sometimes it's not sometimes
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: he's not the master genius politician that people give him
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: credit to be.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that's probably right. You had a
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: great segment on your show this weekend about Ron DeSantis
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: flip-flopping on Ukraine. What do you make of the recent
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: round of stories about Republican operatives and donors already second-guessing
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: his campaign? What do you think is going on with
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: his candidacy?
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Well, a couple of months ago when he was kind
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: of up in the polls, he reminded me a little
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: bit of... Um, do we all remember Wesley Clark when
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: he got.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Into the race?
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: I remember, I mean, cause a bunch of us were
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: on the carry campaign and it was like, oh my God,
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: Wesley Clark is getting in. What are we going to do? Right. It's,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: it looked good on paper. Um, and it seemed like
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: it was going to kind of mess up or change
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: up the race and it really didn't. And with Ron DeSantis,
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: the thing was that he was what people were projecting
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: upon him, um, what they wanted him to be. And
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I remember a story, I don't remember where it was,
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: but from November, December, of some donors who attended an
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: event with him. And many of them came out and said,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: I don't think he was at his best today. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: it was like, well, have you seen him before?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: No.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: It's like, well.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: So what's his best?
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: So.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think this is like he's now even
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: though he hasn't announced he's kind of in that stage
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: of this where people are starting to ask questions and
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: you actually have to have policy positions and positions on things.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: And when you're not authentic about it, people recognize that.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: So that's kind of all playing out for him. But
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, he hasn't figured out how
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: to go after Trump, clearly. But he also seems to,
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: and I talked about this on the show yesterday, I mean,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: he also hasn't kind of figured out what his own
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: view is of things. And that's not just a problem
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: sometimes on the Republican side. There's problems in the Democratic
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: side on that occasionally as well. But, you know, that's
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: never a good a good message to send to voters.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: So no, I don't think he's in search of a lane.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: I think he's in search of a lane. People are
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: going to still what's the old term, like lift the hood.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Kick the tires.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: They're starting to kick the tires. And I don't know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: the tires may not all be functioning or something. I'm
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: not sure what the analogy is there.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: The Wesley Clark comparison is good. I hadn't thought about it,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: but that he actually really did get on an airplane
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: at the very start of his campaign. with a sweater,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: and it was a campaign that was being just entirely
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: about the vote on the Iraq War. And he was
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: asked on that flight, his very first campaign event, would
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: you have voted for the Iraq War? And he just
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: didn't have an answer.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Not only did he not have an answer, but he
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: ended up screaming for his press secretary to come help him. Mary!
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Help me!
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Wasn't it Mary?
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Or Howard Schultz. Remember? It was like, oh, when he
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: gets in the race. It's all going to be over.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: He's going to bring the world together. It's not exactly
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: what happened.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: He was a drip.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, or on the Republican side in many different primaries,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: especially 2016. Rick Perry. Remember?
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Fred Thompson.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Fred Thompson, yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Herman Cain.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Rudy Giuliani.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Whatever happened to that guy? Herman Cain, he had a
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: moment there.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did have a moment.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: Did he have the 999 plan?
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Am I remembering this correctly?
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Oh, see, we're all kind of remembering. I vaguely remember
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: what that was, but that's all affiliated.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Also RAP, Herman Cain, right?
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Forgot about that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: His memory would be a blessing.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: You guys have anything for Chad?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: No, I actually honestly did not prepare any questions.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's great.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just here to hang.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: But he did.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Work very hard on his joke about Howard Schultz or
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: just like came to him in the moment.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: No, I'm here to ad lib.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: He's prioritizing where he does his work.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I was doing a lot of work with ChatGPT and
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: didn't help.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Saki, how are you feeling about going over to the
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: media side? We're still torn about it. You know, we're
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: political hacks at heart, but now you have like a
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: real job at a real network. where people are counting
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: on you to get it right.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, you guys are torn about it. You're about,
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: how far are you into this journey? Seven years?
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Seven years. Thanks for calling it a journey.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: Well, what was, keeping it 1600?
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Keeping it, yeah. Those were the early days.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: I remember the OG version.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And back then we were like, Trump, what's going to happen?
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: This is silly.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Remember Tommy, we.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Were sitting at- Is this guy going to be around
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: for that long? Probably not.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Now we're like, will the indictment stop him?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: There was a, there was a headline, uh, uh, There's
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: a headline in CNN today that said, Trump leans into
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: extremism as legal woes mount. And that could have been
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: appearing every day for the last seven years.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Literally.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Should we let Jen answer the question that Tommy asked her? Sure, yeah.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the adjustment has been in part that,
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, I have worked in the White House more
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: than anywhere else in my life, which is a weird
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: thing to say, but I've spent more time there consistently
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: than any other job.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Part of coming here was also just coming somewhere new.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: That was like a big company with lots of people.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: And the first time I did a special or an
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: election night special, whatever it may have been in the fall,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: I remember being nervous. Like I was like the new
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: kid at the lunch table. You know, I brought like,
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: a bag of snacks. It was like, if I have
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: snacks for people, maybe they'll want to be my friend.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know. So there's been an adjustment like that
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: and just learning kind of a new place. Um, and
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: then there's an adjustment to things like, as you guys know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: because you are experienced, you know, media it's at this
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: point in time, there are things like commercials. You can't
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: just keep talking. People will tell you to wrap and stop.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: It's all, you know, those are things I'm learning all
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: the technical stuff. Um, But, you know, I will say
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: that that there is a nerdy similarity. I mean, obviously,
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: journalism is very different. And what I'm doing, I'm not
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: trying to hide from what I've worked on, where I've been,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: what I think I can bring to the table in
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: this job at all. So in that sense, I'm not
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: trying to be even handed about abortion or who you
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: can marry or any of that. That's not what anyone's
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: asking me to do or what I'm going to do.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: But.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: I will say, you know how when you work in government,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: how you have like a bunch of people wandering around
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: who are policy experts on different things and they kind of,
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of nerds flowing around and they know
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: about different things. There is a weird similarity to that, right?
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Where it's like, you know, you'll run into somebody who's
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: like doing like a, a documentary on NASA, like in
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: the elevator, right? And then, you know, you run into
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: somebody who's just been in Georgia. So there's a cool
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: aspect of people who are just smart and interesting, trying
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: to get to the bottom of stuff and learn more
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: and different layers of nerdiness. So in that sense, it's
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: similar to government.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: That's cool. Did you call other trailblazing politicos turned journalists
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: like Sean Spicer for advice before the show?
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: I have not, although I have a great Sean Spicer story.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Please.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: He, well, I mean, it's a small town, right? It was,
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: you know, for a long time we would be, this
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: was pre-Trump, obviously. He would be one of those people
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: back in 2012 before I went to the campaign where
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: you'd be in a green room together or you'd be
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: doing television together, right? He was kind of a run-of-the-mill
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Republican operative for a while there, right? Early on in
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: this last iteration in the White House, I did, I
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: think it was Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, that show.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: And I talked about how when I needed to get
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: a good laugh, I would pull up the video of
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: him shimmying in his green shirt, you know, from Dancing
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: with the Stars. And he, to his credit, sent me
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: a signed photo of him shimmying in that shirt.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Is that hanging up on the wall
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: behind you? It is not, but.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: I did think that was a little funny, even though, no,
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: I would not call him for advice, and we don't
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: exactly have the same approach to anything.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: That's sort of like a good, maybe, bathroom picture. You know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: you need a piece of art for the bathroom.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: It's a conversation starter.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: What are you trying to do with this show that...
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you think is like different than other cable shows?
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: I mean, one of the things that we've already started
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: doing and we're going to do more of is spending
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: time or a couple of hours with politicians or elected
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: officials or not even necessarily like I'd love to do
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: this with athletes or musicians or others to figure out
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: what they do in their normal day. You know, we
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: call it weekend routine. So it's what are you doing?
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: What kind of coffee are you drinking? What show are
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: you watching? But also, what do you like in your
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: normal life? What drives you? What is your background? What
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: do you like to do for fun? And you learn
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: so much about people. I mean, I think it's true
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: for all of us. Having spent two decades, I can't
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: believe that's true, working for politicians of all different stripes.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: You know, they're human beings, right? They're imperfect. They have
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: funny quirks about them. I mean, you guys talk a
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: lot about the funny Obama quirks as much as he
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: was an amazing president. He's got some funny quirks, right?
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: They all do. And that part of them is so
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: humanizing that. You know, we did a piece with Maxwell
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: Frost yesterday. He's such an amazing, and it's inspiring too.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, you think everything's terrible in Washington and government's horrible. One,
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: I don't believe that. I think government and people who
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: get into public service are vast majority do it for
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: the right reasons and do it because they want to
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: make the world better. I mean, he's just like such
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: an inspiring 26 year old who is like, outspoken on
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: gun violence. He's just guts. And he's going to be
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: around for a while where I'm going to spend tomorrow
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: with Danica Rome and Danica. Um, and so big friend
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: of the pod, but you know, there's, there's so many
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: interesting people out there. So that's one of the things
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: we're trying to do. The other thing is, um, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: this has been really fun. I almost start to like
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: giggle cause I get so excited about delivering some of
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: these as we're working through them is these segments we're
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: calling don't freak out, which is basically, um, You know,
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: sometimes it's like everybody's telling you it's a five alarm fire.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: There are some five alarm fires. OK, of course, there are.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: We're living in an era where the former president just
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: like had insurrectionist video like at his rally. So, I mean, like,
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: let's be real. But everything is not right. And sometimes
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: we can take the temperature down and explain stuff. So
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: those are some of the things. But really, I'm excited
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: to go out and spend time with people. you know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: in the environments where they live and work and share
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: a little bit more about who they are, because I
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: think that's what people don't often get to see about politicians.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Are you covering the Gwyneth Paltrow trial? I think she's
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: being scammed. I really do.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: I've seen some clips of this, and I don't really
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: understand what happened, if I'm being totally honest.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: You can have me on. I'll walk you through it.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Love it. You're invited. Anytime. Anytime.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: I've watched hours of depositions.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Of just this trial?
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Just the Gwyneth trial.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Someone's peed into someone else. Oh, yeah.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I tried to read like three paragraphs about it, and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is ridiculous. Why do I care
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: about this? I know that you're out of the White House,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to ask you to put your Biden
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: hat back on for a second. Our old friend Hans
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Nichols at Axios just wrote about how the president plans
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: to offer a contrast to the nuttiness of the Republican
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: primary that we were just talking about. He said, quote,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Biden's advisors are convinced the president can overcome his low
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: approval rating by outlining his infrastructure plan Congress passed last year,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: project by project and city by city. First question, do
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: you think that's really the strategy?
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I'm not, I've known Hans a
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: long time. When I was working, like, in the House,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: he was working for the Hill. That is not the
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: sexiest description of a campaign strategy right there, right? So,
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure Hans is going to be hired to
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: do a campaign slogan. I think the point is, though, one,
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, the contrast is a little bit inherent right now.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, they don't have to do anything right now
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: except have Joe Biden be president and go meet with
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: foreign leaders and sign bills and host events at the
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: White House, because the other side is so cuckoo. And
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: so in many ways, the crazy versus the this is
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: way better and way more competent is happening on its own,
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: which I think is part of the reason why he
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: hasn't announced yet or why he doesn't. I don't know
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: that there's the same urgency that there was six to
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: eight months ago, because There aren't other people, clearly. I mean,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: maybe some people will, but at this point, jumping in
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: the primary. And right now, the thing about being president
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: and running for reelection is that in itself is an advantage.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: You have the music, you have the plane, all the things, right?
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: But in terms of the infrastructure, that description, what I
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: do think that how I think they're thinking about this or,
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: you know, if I were sitting in there, how I'd
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: be thinking about this is a lot of what they've accomplished.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: People don't understand what the IRA is, which, by the way,
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: is just like a terrible acronym for anything. Acronyms are
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: generally terrible. They don't really understand like the Inflation Reduction Act,
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: even if you spell it out. They do understand if
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: there is like a bridge being built in their community,
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: if their road is no longer, if their road is
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: easier to go over, if there's a cool renewable climate
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: project that they can get excited about. And so it
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: is smart because there's still an element of all politics
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: is local, that I think is very true to who
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden is. But also it's how they can do
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: their accomplishments in a way that's not just like IRA
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: bumper stickers, which like, you know, no one knows what
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: that is. Although Tommy's like thinking about like the Ireland's
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to go after some Protestants in a minute.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Just to push you on that a little bit, Saki.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, every president is like gets told by their
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: advisors like, sir, you're doing amazing things. Your communications team
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: is just not selling.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: It well enough.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: And that's what we're going to fix this next quarter.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, that happened to us when we
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: worked for Obama and it pissed us off. When Joe
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: Biden took office and they passed a ton of COVID
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: stimulus money, his advisors were out there saying, you know, look,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Obama screwed up by not selling the Recovery Act and
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: the stimulus well enough. Joe's going to hit the road
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: and we're really going to sell it. And then we
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: fast forward to today and his approval is at 38 percent.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: And it's just sort of like, is it an antiquated
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: idea to think that you can do these road shows
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: and really sell these granular projects?
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: Well, no, I think that's fair. I mean, I think
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: it's part, it's a little different just to like unpack
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: all of that because part of his accomplishment, what he's
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: done to date is these big bills, right? So it's
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: not the totality of the only thing you do, but
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: it's part of what they can lay the groundwork on
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: now before he announces, which is to help inform people
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: in communities what he's actually done, right? And that's That's
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: more about the politics of it, I think, than it
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: is about when you're in the White House, do you
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: sell it? Is your comms team terrible? I've long joked,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: and if I ever do this, I will make you
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: guys mugs. I want an NACP, which stands for not
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: a comms problem.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: I want one.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: I want two.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: I used to joke with my team when I was
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: the press secretary that we needed that mug. No one
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: really knew what it meant, but we knew what it
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: meant because sometimes it's not a comms problem. It's a
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: policy problem. By the way, anyway, I do think once
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: he gets in and once it is an actual contrast
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: with some with a candidate, an opponent, it becomes the like,
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: And by the way, that guy over there, whoever it
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: may be, unless Nikki Haley has a massive surprising surge
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: in the polls. You know, I'm not betting on it,
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: but we'll see. He is going to be way out
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: of the mainstream on the vast majority of issues, even
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: if it's Ron DeSantis. He's, yes, less crazy than Donald Trump,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: or maybe I trust him more with the nuclear codes
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: or something. But he still has policies that are way
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: beyond even like most conservatives. I mean, he's way out
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: of what the mainstream is. So that will still be
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: the central part. I would I would bet I would advise.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: in a year from now. But for now it's like
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: the stage of like, here's what I've actually done.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Jen, do they, so recently there was this photo, it was,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: it was Biden and McConnell in front of a bridge
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: and it was Kevin McCarthy and the chaos on the
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: floor of the house. And it was this great contrast.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: The Brent Spence bridge.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: The Brent Spence bridge.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: The famous Brent Spence bridge.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: Which by the way, is a scary bridge. I've driven
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: over many times because my husband is from Cincinnati and
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: that thing.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Is, It's not.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: That's why Joe Biden's going to fix it.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: But, you know, some of what Joe Biden gets, as
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: you were saying, like these are these are this is
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: some of this is T-ball, right? Like be against violence
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: before democracy. How much would you have when Joe Biden's
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: on the road touting infrastructure, touting climate and environmental infrastructure?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: How much would you have him enter the fight and
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: start taking shots about what Trump and DeSantis and others
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: are saying? And how much would you let the contrast
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: speak for itself?
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, when I was there, we didn't do
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: that a lot purposefully, right? And people can judge whether
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: that was the right decision or the wrong decision. But
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: part of that was sort of resettling the nerves of
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: the public, right? So the first year plus, I mean, back,
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I left 10 months ago, almost to when
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: I think there was starting to be a little bit
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: of contrast right before I left. But we didn't really
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: do much of that. We kind of let the crazy
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: be the crazy, right? We didn't talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: We just let the crazy be the crazy. Now they've
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: done it more and they are, as a now observer
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: of it, they've been still selective about it, but they've
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: done it a little bit more. Obviously, as a campaign
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: picks up, if he decides, presumably he's made every indication
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: he's going to run, he runs, that will become more frequent,
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: including when he's out there doing events. Um, you know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: you gotta be careful, the official, unofficial, official, political, that
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff. But I think it increases over the
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: year and that makes sense.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: What do you make of this narrative that's out there
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: now that Biden is, is moving to the center because of,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: you know, they connect three dots here, the opposition to, um,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: DC's criminal justice reforms, his support for the Willow oil
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: drilling project, and now the rumored possibility that the administration
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: may bring back family detentions. Um, You've been in government
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: like us and you know that some things are political strategy.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Some things are just an unfortunate sequence of events that
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you have little control over. And sometimes it's a mix
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: of both. So what do you make of it?
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: I think without knowing where the third sits, I think
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: the first two are a bit of an unfortunate sequence
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: of events. I mean, the first, the D.C. bill, which
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: is complicated, hard for people to understand. There was a
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: total miscommunication, which obviously warrant is, you know, there's warranted criticism.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: But the mayor of D.C., Muriel Bowser, did not want
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: that bill. Right. She also. So. I don't know entirely
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: what happened there. But the thing about Biden is he
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: and people like this. They don't like it. He's never
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: been as progressive on issues around policing as some in
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: the party might like him to be. I mean, he's
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: he is has been an advocate for the George Floyd
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: Justice and Policing Act. He's been an advocate for reforms,
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: but he has also been a defender of funding the police.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: And that puts it in his budget and things like that.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: And that's kind of part of who he is. So
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: whether people like it or not like it, I don't
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: think it's a shift, I would say. On the Willow Project.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: As I understand that in my reading, there is a
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: legal component there that is a little bit tricky for them.
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: That does not mean, as we all know, it makes
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: it easy to explain and it feels bad. It sounds bad.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: It feels contradictory. But the legal stuff can be a
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: real pain in the neck when you're in the communications team.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: And I think it's a case of that.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Sometimes having to follow the laws are real.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: A real tricky wicket.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: That's why the Trump people were just like, fuck it.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: We're not going to do it. Right.
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: We were still like, we cannot violate the Hatch Act.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Although I guess I got in trouble once, whatever. I
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: got a sternly worded letter.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: They were doing their.
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: Campaign rallies on the South lawn, right? You were like,
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: I see an attorney general in the hallway and I'd
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: like move the other way.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Wasn't the convention speech on the lawn?
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: And then it was like, and then they're like, you
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: violated the hedge hack, pay us $ 500, which means it's
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: just a $ 500 fee for breaking the hedge act.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: So Jen, you're, you're, listen, I think anyone who watched
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: you at the podium knows that you are Not only brilliant,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: but incredibly patient and kind to even very dumb questioners.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: But you're also a tough cookie. You know, we were
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: in a lot of campaign battle. You shut up. You're
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: in a lot of campaign battle. That's the love it.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Do you owe Jen money?
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: No, we were in a lot of fights with Jen
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: in political campaigns. We saw her knife fighting, sticking it
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: to opponents behind the scenes, dropping oppo. So now that
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: you're at your new perch, is there anyone at CNN
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: that you want to talk shit about? Jake Tapper, Anderson Cooper.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Let's start a fight. Has Aaron Burnett actually been behind
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: this whole time? Who should we go after?
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: No. Jake Tapper, friend, was at my wedding.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: He'll come for you.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I hope not. I love his wife,
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: who's even the better member of the family. I think
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: that's fair to say. Agreed.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: He'll probably attack you for saying that.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Who is the other person?
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: I'm uncomfortable with this whole conversation.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Anderson Cooper.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Does anybody not like Anderson Cooper? He's like... I mean, he's... No.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: We'll do this offline.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: Appreciate it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it. You mentioned a feeling like the first day
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: of school. Have Rachel and Chris and Nicole Wallace let
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: you sit at their lunch table?
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: Is there a cool kid table?
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: Occasionally. I do offer snacks.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. That's good.
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: No. They have been... really great. I mean, I have
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: gotten amazing advice from all of them. Nicole Wallace brought
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: me to one of her staff meetings, and I just
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: watched it all happen in my first couple of weeks.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Rachel sat with me when I was going through the teleprompter.
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: She may have in her head been like, ooh, she's
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: not good at this, but she didn't say that. She
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: was very helpful. Chris has been, walked me through how
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: he prepares for shows. Everybody's a little different, right?
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Right, because famously, Chris Hayes, you're not allowed to look
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: him in the eyes. But other than that, as long
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: as you don't break that rule.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: That was my experience. So, no, they've been all really great.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: I will say there would be a really amazing– because
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: I started months ago, I feel like there was such
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: a long– lead up, I think people were like, are
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: you actually going to have a show? Or are they
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: like humoring you a little bit here? I feel like
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: I got versions of that question sometimes. But because I
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: started in September, I had time to kind of get
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: to know people and spend time with people. And I
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: went to visit most of the anchors in their offices,
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: which there would be an amazing, I'm like, I don't
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: know who I'm pitching this to in the world, magazine piece,
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: some sort of story about their offices, because it's like
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: they're everything you want them to be. You know, I mean,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: like Chris Hayes has like, a stack of news, like
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: of magazine articles. You're like, of course you do. And
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: you've probably read all of them. That's annoying, but it's
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: like what I wanted it to be. You know, Lawrence
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: O'Donnell has like a portrait of like a member of
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: Moynihan who he once worked for. I mean, it's just
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: Ari Melber's office is like, looks like it's in a
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: law firm. I mean, it's all the things you want
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: them to be.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: And that's what their offices are.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: It's just like Lovett's desk is exactly what you'd expect
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pile of shit. Just a normal bag.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Empty sneakers.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: Color-coded. Color-coded.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Your show is fantastic. We are so proud of you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: Thank you, guys.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: And so happy for the early success that you've had.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Please come back to Pod Save America. Anytime.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: Anytime.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Jen Psaki. I will.
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: And you guys come on my show.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Yes. Anytime.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: Anytime.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: We'll come to New York. We'll do it. Are you
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: in New York or D.C.? It's D.C.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: Babies are welcome.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: Cool spouses are welcome.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've already been on, but no offense to
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: you guys.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. That's why it was so nice.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: That's why it's so nice.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: Well, you know. Anyway, thank you guys so much. It
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: was great to see you all.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Jen.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Sandra said, hey, Gwyneth. I'm telling you. Sanderson took Gwyneth out.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: He took her out. By Zaki. I'm telling you. I'm
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: telling you. Are we still recording?
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow is being railroaded. Don't believe TikTok. She is
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: the victim.
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Standing up for Gwyneth.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Okay, give us 60 seconds on this.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: 60 seconds. Here we go. Okay, so basically, here's what
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: I believe happened having watched so much of this trial.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: And again, because I don't want to be sued because
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: this guy's litigious, I am just sharing my opinion.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Allegedly.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: My opinion. Now, he claims... that he claims that Gwyneth
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: knocked him over with such force that he broke ribs
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: and got a concussion. The problem is he doesn't remember
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: that happening and does not deny that when the collision happened,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow said, you hit me. And he said, I'm sorry.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: The eyewitness was 40 feet away and was confused about
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: whether or not Gwyneth was wearing a helmet. In fact,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: denied that she was. She was. Gwyneth's story has been
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: incredibly consistent that this guy hit her. Not only that,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: all the reports by the ski instructors and ski patrol,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: everyone verified that the story was Gwyneth was hit. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: the report that the ski instructor filed when he got
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: to the bottom of the hill was that Gwyneth was hit.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: What happened was right as the ski instructor was skiing
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: away from the scene after everyone was said to be OK,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: everybody was done. He turned and he said, your buddy
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: just took out Gwyneth Paltrow. And then he got stars
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: in his eyes. Then the dollar signs started showing up.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: What happens? He lays back down, says he needs help.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: We're off to the races. When Gwyneth got to the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: bottom of the hill. Before she knew she was going
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: to be sued, she texted, that guy really hurt me.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: You don't send that text if you hit somebody else.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Today's Pod Save America is brought to you.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: By Goop. I don't love the jade eggs, and I
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: don't love brown broth for lunch, but I know an
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: innocent person when I see one. I'm calling balls and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: strikes here.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Justice for Gwyneth.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Justice for Gwyneth.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Are you and the J6 chorus going to.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Record adjusted.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: G6.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: The G6. The G6.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: We're part of the G6 chorus. I'll sing it. I'll
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: sing it.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: Get ChatGBT to write some lyrics.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: And one last point about this. One last point about
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: this is I will say that Gwenna's performance on the stand.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: This is more preparation than you did for the whole
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: fucking pod.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Gwenna's performance on the stand is one of the best
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: performances she's handed in since Shakespeare in fucking love. She
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: is exquisite on the stand. She makes these lawyers looks
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: like fucking dunces.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Someone compared it to a Xanax versus an Adderall.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: The lawyer being the Adderall is very funny.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: That look, here's the thing.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: That poor, that poor lawyer that was trying to interrogate
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow. I'm sorry. You may be the best they've
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: gotten Utah, but this is Hollywood.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Good. You're up.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: You're, you're not going to be able to, you're not
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: going to be able to take one.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: It's Oscar.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: All I can tell you is the truth. So she
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: won one.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: I don't even know.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: She did win an Oscar.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Uh, thank you to Jen Saki.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you to Jen Saki.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Um, thank you.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: Uh, To Gwyneth.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: To our Court TV correspondent, John Lovett.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: That's how Savannah Guthrie got her start. You watch your tongue, pal.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I know. I know.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: She's a big shot now.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not a lawyer, though.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: You're not. No one would be confused.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: There's the rub.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: All right, everyone.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: We'll talk to you later.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: slash podsaveamerica.