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DDH - Richard Stockton, Founder · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

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History is strange, it's alien, and it won't give us what we
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would like to have. Our three of this Tuesday,
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October 1st of 2024 being brought to you by Renewal by
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Anderson. Dave Bowman is with us and
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Tuesdays at 8:00, Dave brings us.
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Dave does history. We spent the last hour talking
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about patriotism, pride, sacrifice and sabotage.
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Well, I'm not sure, Dave, that we actually understand the
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definition of sacrifice as our founding fathers did, and
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especially the one you're going to tell us about today.
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I have this theory about things with with leaders and that is,
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you know for every George Washington there were thousands
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of other Americans who did in many ways more than Washington
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did to found this country, but we have no idea who they are
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now. Is that because Washington had a
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better press agent or is it just an accident of history?
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I don't know. It could just be as simple as
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some people just wanted to do what they did and then melt away
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into obscurity. Richard Stockton, who was born
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this day, October 1st, 1730, may not be one of those household
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names like Washington or Jefferson or even Franklin, but
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his life and his sacrifices during the American Revolution
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carry a profound significance that resonate even today.
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He was a distinguished lawyer, which is a phrase we don't like
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to use that often, a signer of the Declaration of Independence,
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a man who endured great personal tragedy for his beliefs, and his
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story is one of both triumph and hardship.
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His unwavering commitment to the cause of liberty despite the
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devastating cost to his health, his fortune, his family, reminds
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us that the birth of our nation was not achieved by famous
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leaders alone, but by patriots whose sacrifices have often
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faded into the shadows of history.
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In a time when the notion of sacrifice for the greater good
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can sometimes feel distant or even fake, in these days,
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Stockton's life serves as a poignant reminder that freedom
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often comes at great personal cost.
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His legacy challenges us to reflect upon the values of
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courage, resilience and commitment, and by understanding
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his contributions and the price he paid, we can gain a deeper
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appreciations for the freedoms which we enjoy today.
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And we are reminded of the importance of standing firm in
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our convictions, no matter the challenges that may come our
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way. His story will offer us timeless
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lessons in the nature of duty and sacrifices, lessons that
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continue to shape the character of this Nation Today.
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Richard Stockton, Dave. Let's get into his story.
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Well, like I said, Richard was born this date, October 1st, in
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1730 in the colony then of New Jersey, and he was born to a
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very wealthy and very well respected family.
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There you go. New Jersey.
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His family had deep roots there, placed him in a position of
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being privileged and he had great opportunities and he would
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build use that to build a career that would well impact the the
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burgeoning nation here. There were a lot of political
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and social issues that we've talked about in the past that
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began to percolate around the time that Stockton would come to
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to manhood. And being there at the beginning
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makes you a key component and a key player in all of this.
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He had attended what was then known as the College of New
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Jersey. Now today, that's known as
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Princeton University, where he received a rigorous education
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that prepared him for a career in the law.
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In that era, being a lawyer didn't quite have the stigma to
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it that it has today, despite Shakespeare, you know, kill all
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the lawyers. You were seen as very
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respectful. It was a a really good upper
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middle class, lower upper class career to pursue in those days.
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His legal training quickly earned him a reputation as one
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of the most prominent lawyers in the entirety of the colonies.
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That's got to be a good feeling. I mean, you know, those 13
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colonies, they stretch what, 1015, eighteen, 100 miles from,
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from north to South and, and your name is known through all
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of it. That's where your that's where
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this guy is starting out. So how do you go from being one
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of the most prominent lawyers in the entire entirety of the the
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British North American colonies to being forgotten his he
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understood the colonial law very well.
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He had a sense of justice, a sense of fairness that he was
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well noted for. That made him a respected figure
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in New Jersey. He was often sought after for
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advice by the colonial leaders. What do you think we should do
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about this? In 1757, he married a a a lady.
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I'm going to screw up her name. Sorry, but her.
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Her name was Annas Boninas. It's a very French name.
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A woman of remarkable talent and intellect in her own right.
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She was a a prominent poet Bill she you know, it was a different
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era and poets were regard highly regarded back then.
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She was a member of a well known, well respected New Jersey
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family and they began to settle down in their life in 1757
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together began to build their family.
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It's one of those situations where I often think about things
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like that, you know, was was this the right time for us to
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start our family given the way the world is going?
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Imagine that in 17571763 the the Stockton's had six children, but
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they managed to balance their professional and personal lives,
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maintaining their positions as influential members of colonial
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society. His role, Stockton's role as
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father and husband was significant and it's so, as were
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his personal achievement, professional achievements.
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His home life was marked by very close familial bonds.
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He was very close and very well regarded by his children, very
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close to them. He was very, a really good dad,
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but eventually that would be disrupted.
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The hardships that were coming in the near future would cause
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him to have to make sacrifices even for his family.
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His early life, his education set this foundation in place,
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but they also gave him an innate sense that his understanding of
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the law could begin to work in favor of his position, in favor
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of independence. It was his Pharaoh's family and
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father that would make the cost of his patriotism even more
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personal. I have often wondered that
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myself. After Ben was born, I began.
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I actually said this on the air one day.
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It makes you stop and think a little bit more about what you
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say. Because while I might be willing
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to accept the consequences for myself, what about Ben?
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What about my family? What, what if I'm not there
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because of something that happens in my professional life
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that I'm willing to accept the consequences for, but it is
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going to interfere with that. And I think these are things
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that we don't often think about. We don't often think about
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George Washington being separated from Martha for, for
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all those years and the entirety of the American Revolutionary
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War. I think the I think he saw her
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twice in those 7-8 years. We don't think about these
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founding fathers as sacrificing something that matters as much
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as a family life. And Stockton's family was very
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important and very influential. And he's going to step away from
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that because he's going to put himself in the position of being
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one of those founding fathers who in 1776 at the constant at
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the at the colonial Congress, the Continental Congress, is
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going to put his name on the Declaration of Independence as
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Ben Franklin would. What would famously quip about
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the document? We we hang together or we hang
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separately. He knew they knew that they were
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committing treason to the king, but they were also founding a
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new nation based on a different ideal, that we didn't need a
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king to run things. The truth is that we very rarely
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talk about the sacrifices that most of them, many of them are
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going to make because, I don't know, doesn't make good radio.
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It doesn't make good stories. It doesn't it doesn't make us
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feel good. We like the Washingtons, we like
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the Franklins, we like the John Hancock's, we like all of that
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stuff. Somewhere along the line,
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though, it was the sacrifices of people like Richard Stockton who
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would enable this country to actually accomplish its mission,
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to accomplish its its goal in the American Revolution.
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And I think it's important that we continue to remember that
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because when you forget about those sacrifices and all you do
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is celebrate the glory, I think you lose something.
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I think you lose that element of this isn't easy.
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And I one of the problems that I have with modern American
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history is we tend to think of our history as very easy.
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It was, it was, it was foreordained, it was divinely
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ordained or whatever you want to, however you want to say it.
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It was work and it required great sacrifice.
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And Richard Stockton is going to make that sacrifice for this
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nation. And imagine, coming from a
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prominent family, that they were very much loyalist to the crown,
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at least for a large portion of his upbringing.
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Well, I would imagine for his upbringing, yeah, but New Jersey
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is also a hotbed of we don't necessarily like the king.
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When Dave Bowman bringing us Dave does history as we look at
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a founder named Richard Stockton, prominent family,
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respected lawyer asked for advice by those who are
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considering leaving Great Britain and they've where we
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sitting now. Familiar.
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Familiar name to us, right? Just the town.
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Stockton. Yeah.
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Is it connect? Is it?
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That's a good question. Yes, it is.
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Oh, in 1919, in 1776, Richard Stockton's stature and his
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dedication to the cause of liberty.
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And this came about because of his innate and deep
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understanding of the law. His legal expertise really began
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to to show, and this is something that I'm not sure most
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of us understand today, this idea that legally Britain was
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violating our rights as Englishmen.
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It was violating our rights. And this is kind of what led to,
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look, if you're not going to give us the rights that we have
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by God as Englishmen, then what do we need you for?
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And it was minds like Stockton's that came up with this legal
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framework, Stockton, Jefferson, that that's a conversation I'd
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love to be on the fly on the wall for is Richard Stockton and
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Thomas Jefferson. Because those two minds working
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together with maybe with Franklin's twinkle and and and
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and input on the side of it would have been incredible.
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People like Adams were more fiery, but Stockton was one of
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those guys that could see the legal framework for this
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argument and the legal. Arguments are the ones that
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become dangerous because they've got a foundation in existing
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law. And, and more than that, they
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give, they give the people with the fiery rhetoric the
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underpinning that they need to be correct it.
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In 1776, Stockton's passion for this argument gets him elected
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to the Continental Congress from New Jersey, which, you know,
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again, to us it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
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But in 1776, you were picking people that were debating and
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discussing in a Republican representative manner the
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biggest issues of the day. Do we continue to cooperate with
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Britain and try to get them to see things, or do we just
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basically kiss them off and say we're we're we're not part of
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you anymore? Knowing full well that the King
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of England is going to see that as treason and he's going to
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start a war over. His most lasting contribution to
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the American Revolution will be the fact that on July 2nd, 1776,
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Stockton will vote in favor of independence.
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He will vote in favor of adopting the resolution that
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will become known as the Declaration of Independence.
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Whether he signed it on the 4th or not is lost to history.
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Remember that many of them didn't sign it until August
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before it was sent out. But the the bottom line is his
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name appears on there. He did in fact sign the
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Declaration of Independence, which as we know, marks him as a
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traitor in the eyes of the British.
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The risks are immense, but he believed that the ideals of
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freedom, self governance and liberty were worth the personal
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sacrifices that might follow. And shortly after that, he would
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be asked to undertake his first mission as an official
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representative of the United States of America.
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So he's fervently in favor of this, Dave, but sacrifices are
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going to be required. And those those are going to
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start when Congress, the Continental Congress, has an
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idea. And that idea is, you know,
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Canada's right up there. And while they're technically
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not part of the 13 N American colonies, they are British
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colonies. And they might feel the same way
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as we do if somebody goes and explains it to them and they
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Congress, the Continental Congress, sends Richard Stockton
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to Canada to try to convince them to join the American
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Revolution. We don't really think about this
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these days. We don't really understand our
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relationship with Canada, particularly in the early going.
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His mission to Canada is unfortunately unsuccessful.
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The Canadian leaders are, they're very wary of rebellion.
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They actually like the British crown.
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And something that is little known to us is that the 13
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American colonies are not really economically that important to
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Great Britain. The Caribbean colonies and
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Canada are. These are where the the vast
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majority of the income for for camp for Great Britain is coming
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from. We're just kind of a, an
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afterthought experiment sort of thing.
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And Canada is benefiting from this and they're not being
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treated the same way that we are vis a vis our English rights.
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The mission fails and Stockton returns to Philadelphia to
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report, hey, they're not interested.
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Later on, the United States will actually attempt to invade
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Canada. And this will, it's not the
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first time, by the way, we'll do it again in in the War of 1812.
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And both times it it's a miserable failure.
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So the few times we've actually tried to take on Canada have not
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been successful. Just something to think about.
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But in this particular case, now Stockton comes back and the war
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has has started. So what's going to happen?
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In late 76, the British forces under the command of William
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Howe launch a major offensive that pushes through New Jersey
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in an attempt to crush the rebellion.
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Now, as the British Army advances, they occupy much of
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New Jersey. They're bringing terror and
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destruction to the homes and the states of those who are known to
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support the patriot cause, one of whom is, of course, Stockton,
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who signed the Declaration of Independence in November of 76.
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He is arrested and captured by the British forces, and while he
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has relocated his family for safety, he is actually betrayed
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by a loyalist neighbor who told the British where he was.
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That's not, you know, cool in my book, but there you go.
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He was not treated as a respected lawyer or a dignified
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political figure by the British. They treated him as a common
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traitor and sent him into prison.
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He was imprisoned in New York City, where the conditions were
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notoriously brutal. And to make a very Long story
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short, it will break his health. He's placed in deplorable
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conditions, cold, damp, lacking sanitation, all those kinds of
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things. The British deny him the status
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that he should have as a member of Congress, and his physical
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being is is smashed. And Richard Stockton is one of
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the earliest of the founding fathers to find himself
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basically at death's door because of what he has done,
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which is sign the Declaration of Independence.
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You'd have thought the British would have treated him better,
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given their penchant for protocol and the like, but it
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didn't happen. Huh.
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They see him as a traitor. Well, there's that, I suppose,
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and we conclude the story and take your calls when we
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continue. Dave does history in moments on
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Bill Mick live well. There's a lot of debate that
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went on leading up to the founding of this country and
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Dave has got us with one of those founders in Richard
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Stockton who is starting to pay dearly for his ideas supporting
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the founding of this country. Dave, where we at now?
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Sir, when we left you, Richard Stockton was sitting in prison
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in New York. I.
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Didn't have a button on, I'm sorry.
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When we left you before the button, anyway, Stockton was
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sitting in prison in New York where his health was, was
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broken. These prisons, boy, if you ever
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want to do a a dive into that stuff, you should.
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These, these prisons were, they're indescribably bad.
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And his condition is getting worse and worse and worse.
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Now the British have a problem. And that problem is they have a
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lot of these prominent Americans as prisoners, and the Americans
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are starting to complain to Parliament of their
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mistreatment. And so Parliament begins to put
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pressure on General Howe, saying, hey, you need to come to
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some sort of arrangement with these folks.
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And one of the things that Howe does is he comes up with what is
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known as a parole. It requires the parolee to sign
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a a promise to not be involved anymore with the revolution.
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And many of the patriots who are in the prisons go ahead and sign
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these documents. Now, some of them sign them,
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never intending to keep them much as during the Civil War,
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We'll see a lot of that kind of thing happen.
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And as soon as they're released, they go back in into the into
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the war. Stockton, however, never
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actually signs one of these agreements.
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He never says, yeah, I will. I will accept my freedom and not
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take part in the revolution anymore.
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He never signs that. But the British look at him and
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say this guy's going to be dead. So they let him go in January of
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77. They let him go and he's just a
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shadow of his previous self. He's, his spirit is just greatly
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diminished. He can't really do anything.
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He keeps wanting to do things for the Congress and for the
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Revolution, but he's just not physically capable of doing it.
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While he's been in prison, the British have taken great, great
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excitement in just dismantling his property, destroying
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everything that he owns, getting rid of all his.
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His wealth is gone. He is now broke.
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He has no home. He has no property.
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Nothing is left of his life before the revolution.
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His family is safe. But, and to him, you know,
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that's important, but his physical property is gone.
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His spirit broken in in January. I'm sorry.
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He will die in February of 1781. Bill at the ripe old age of 50.
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Wow. His death will come five years
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after he signed the Declaration of Independence, and it's a grim
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testament to the toll the revolution had taken on his
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life. His early death a tragic ending
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to a life once filled with promises, ambition.
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Stockton had given everything he had to the cause of liberty.
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But his contributions are largely forgotten today as the
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narrative of Americans independence moved forward
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really without him. The loss of his the loss of his
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property left his family in financial ruin.
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The The property was gone. The expenses had been incurred
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during his illness. It left his widow, Aunt Annis,
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with their children in a very precarious financial situation.
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But because she was a prominent poet writer, she was left to
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navigate these challenging realities of raising children in
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the shadow of the sacrifice. They struggled to rebuild what
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had been lost. But those financial hardships
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would continue long, long after his death.
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His life, once defined by ambition, service and
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dedication, ended in tragedy and perhaps worse, obscurity.
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His contributions to the American Revolution, those
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significant, have been overshadowed by the personal
23:09
costs that he endured. But his story is a reminder that
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the fight for independence was not just a battle for political
23:15
freedom, but also a deeply personal struggle that extracted
23:19
a heavy toll on those who dared to challenge the British Empire.
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His life stands today as a poignant example that sacrifices
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made by those who risked everything for the future of
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this new nation should not and cannot be forgotten.
23:35
Dave Bowman with us. Dave does his history today
23:38
featuring Richard Stockton. Dave, his imprisonment in the
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winter, notably in New England, November of 1776, and he's out
23:47
in January of 77. So maximum 90 days he's there.
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But the time that he was there, devastating to him.
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These prisons and, and it's, it's an under discussed issue,
23:59
not just in the American Revolution, but in the American
24:01
Civil War as well. Prisons were just horrifyingly
24:08
bad. And there was no incentive or
24:12
motivation on either side, the British side or the American
24:15
side to to make them better. I mean, there just wasn't.
24:19
And so it's not surprising. And when you consider that
24:23
during the, the American Civil War, how many of the troops died
24:27
of dysentery and that sort of thing, one of the most I, I
24:33
don't know what, I don't know what the word for it is creepy
24:35
experiences I ever had was to go to Andersonville down in
24:38
Georgia, which had been the notorious prison camp down
24:41
there. And you can still smell the
24:45
death. I mean, it's, it's a really
24:47
weird experience. Stockton, though, would go on,
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His family would recover. His son would actually become
24:56
one of those senators from New Jersey so that they would get
25:00
that restored. And while his son was was famous
25:04
for that, it's his grandson Bill who becomes a general in the
25:08
United States Army and helps lead the United States Army
25:11
during the Mexican American War, Helps secure California for the
25:17
United States and is rewarded for that by having many streets
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and in couple of cities in the country named after him,
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including one Stockton, CA, which is the home of KWSX 1280
25:32
AM, which is where Bill and I both were once on the air.
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So the family recovered, but it took time.
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And by the way, one of his descendants is today alive and
25:46
is one of the most famous magicians in the world, an
25:50
award-winning magician that you can still see and has a Facebook
25:54
page and all that kind of stuff as well, so.
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How interesting is that? The sacrifices were made, but
26:01
the recovery was made too, which is much like the real story of
26:04
America took sacrifice to build us, but once we were built, you
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can succeed. As a dad remembering my dad, I
26:13
know you had a great relationship with your dad,
26:15
Dave. You mentioned early on that his
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desire for freedom for this country fractured his
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relationship at least somewhat with his dad.
26:25
To some degree, not so much for Stockton as it did with
26:29
Franklin. I mean, Franklin had to give up
26:31
his son Stockton. They disagreed on some of the
26:35
issues, but on the overall relationship of the family, they
26:40
knew that it was best to form America, the United States, and
26:43
they did. And so those kind of
26:45
relationships were put back and and he was very much a family
26:48
man. And that's again, something to
26:52
remember and honor. Line one, you're on Bill make
26:54
live. Good morning.
26:55
Good morning, Bill, Ed and Melbourne.
26:57
Yeah, yeah. Oh Dave, you do a great job when
27:02
you write your book. I want 2 copies signed please.
27:07
Have you ever read Being George Washington by Glenn Beck?
27:14
I I have not read Beck's book, no, but I've read plenty of
27:17
books about Washington. OK, Being George Washington is a
27:22
good read. It really is.
27:25
Well, Ed, thanks for that. Appreciate you being here, Dave.
27:28
When are you going to start writing that book, man?
27:31
I look I, you know, writing a book the.
27:35
Stories that we've had in play recently about your Arizona
27:38
State University, where thou art a student, I'm convinced you
27:42
should be teaching. They're not taking classes.
27:45
And then that would improve the quality of the faculty.
27:47
Well, you know, I mean, as I mentioned the other day, I'm
27:51
taking AUS history from 1865 to modern era and they're talking
27:55
about the defining issue of the United States in that era is
28:00
World War 2. So we spent a grand total of 14
28:02
minutes on USSUS involvement in World War 2.
28:06
You look. It's not a mini master, is he
28:09
not trying to cram anything into six weeks or anything?
28:11
Yeah. Seven weeks so.
28:14
What are you going? To do.
28:15
I mean, it's not the intellectual salon that I had
28:17
hoped for. Well, maybe that changes as you
28:20
advance into higher class. I certainly hope so, because I
28:24
don't know how much more of this I can do in so far as writing a
28:29
book goes. I don't know.
28:31
I mean, it's it sounds good on paper.
28:36
I know the Dave Bowman. I know you are compiling the
28:40
notes that you've done. For each of these Dave does
28:42
histories. Yes, I am.
28:45
And I think a compilation of those with your notes edited as
28:49
they need to be to make it readable for a book would be.
28:54
I'll tell you where I fall down on this bill, and this probably
28:58
makes me weird. I don't know because I I live in
29:00
the world of podcasts where everybody thinks they're going
29:02
to be millionaires. Yeah.
29:04
I am adamant about information of this nature being free, and I
29:11
don't necessarily know that I want to print a book that then I
29:14
sell. I To me that seems
29:16
counterintuitive to what I try to do, so maybe I put them
29:20
together on a. Website talked all of these
29:22
things on a podcast, but I think there are folks who might be
29:24
very interested in having this as part of their collection.
29:29
And, and again, your choices as to which of these, Dave, does
29:32
histories come together for the, for the best and brightest ones.
29:35
But there have been so many good ones.
29:36
If you've got those available, you know, finding an editor, it
29:40
may not be tough to find a publishing house.
29:42
There might be somebody interested in these things.
29:44
I had a long discussion with a another writer about that last
29:47
week. By the way, they are all
29:48
available on our website, davedoeshistory.org.
29:51
You can get them there. You can get them on Spotify,
29:54
iTunes, anywhere you get podcasts you can get.
29:57
Them and there are links to both the Dave Bowman Show podcast and
30:00
Dave does history on the Bill McCloud page today headline.
30:03
We told you so, which is where we began this morning, and we
30:06
ended it with Richard Stockton and the actual sacrifices that
30:12
are made by that were made by the founders.
30:15
What's ahead next week, Dave? Next week, we look into the life
30:18
of one of America's most celebrated war heroes, Sergeant
30:21
Alvin York. How does someone go from being a
30:25
consciences objector to being the most famous American soldier
30:30
in history? And we're going to talk about
30:32
his life. I look forward to that.
30:34
We've got just a minute left line one.
30:36
I've got time for a quick comment.
30:38
Go. Morning Bill Dave, you are a
30:42
good storyteller young man and I do believe that you deserve to
30:47
be compensating some for your efforts in what you have done.
30:54
I wish you all the. He's going to want me to pay him
30:56
to be here, be quiet. I don't have a budget, Walt.
31:05
All. Right, I got to leave it there
31:07
and that's going to do it for this day.
31:09
Thank you, my friend, It's always a pleasure.
31:11
We'll talk again on Tuesday. And see you then.