Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Training and development with Natalie Bell from The Art of Finance

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Training and development with Natalie Bell from The Art of Finance · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Natalie Bell.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Natalie is the director of culture and engagement at the Verve Group.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: The Verve Group is a group of companies set up to support financial planning firms, whether that could be outsourced compliance, outsource administration, outsource power planning.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the companies that also sits under the Verve Group is the Art of Finance.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a training and development company, again, there to support financial planning firms, taking away the burden of having to do all the training and development in-house.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: They themselves have got amazing experience in taking people from zero to hero.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: So somebody's got zero experience all the way up to level four qualified power planners because they've got their own in-house grad scheme.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So they've repackaged that up, put it into the art of finance, and are helping financial planning firms grow.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: They've also got an amazing charity in place called We Are Change, and we talk about that in a little bit more detail and how that's going to help improve the advisor gap in the UK.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: Hi Natalie, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
1:42
SPEAKER_02: I am very well, Sam.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for having me.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Good.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's untrue because we were talking before the podcast.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Both of us have been going mental.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: We're not we haven't been well.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: We've been a bit down, haven't we, over the last couple of.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Just just feels a little bit like something might come along and take your legs out at any stage.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: So I think we're just a bit prepared.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you'll be just pleased when it's when it's all over.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: But um, you're not alone, I'm not alone.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: So it was lovely to talk to you about that, and you actually really helped me.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for that.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Um okay, great stuff.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, thank you so much for joining me today.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I've had Kathy Harr um Harrison on before um from the Verve Group.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: And you yourself are um the director of culture and engagement at the Verve Group, and one of your responsibilities is the Art of Finance UK.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't only a couple of weeks ago I put a popcorn a post out on LinkedIn sort of asking to connect with anyone that um works really within the training and development side of financial planning in whatever capacity.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And um your name popped up.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: But you were recommended by Kathy, weren't you?
3:02
SPEAKER_02: She's a good friend, she's a good friend to have.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: She just tagged you on it.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, really pleased to have you on today.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm really looking forward to finding out a bit about the art of finance, um, what you do, and and just really what sort of um solution art of finance is is it has for the for the financial planning and financial services profession.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So in the first instance, what I'd love for you just to kind of give our listeners an overview of is what is the art of finance?
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so just uh by way of a quick introduction, because I know you just mentioned my title there of the Verve Group.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Um so the Verve Group collectively um is a number of um support services for financial advisors and planners, whether it be Parasols for power planning, um, appricity compliance, the art of finance is essentially an outsourced training solution that fits within the Verve Group.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you're absolutely right.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: I do have two hats, um, which is the um working across the Verve group in my um direct role of culture and engagement, because there's a hell of a lot of change that happens within the group, um, staff engagement, just generally working with the team to make sure that you know they're all happy and motivated and you know, navigating the way through um the growth and the fast-paced change that we've got.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: But because of my skill set in um, well, I was actually in a creative role before I joined um Kathy and the team kind of three and a half, four years ago, um, looking at marketing and just generally um kind of change management initiatives and leadership development programs and how we use Creative Comms to actually get the best out of people.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: So it led us into coaching and um lots of learning and development work.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, so when it came to creating the art of finance with Kathy, um, we knew there was an absolute training need that was um, you know, crying out for within financial services.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: The clients on Parasols and Epricity were always saying, Kathy, Kathy, you know, come and train my power planners, where do you find them?
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, come and sit in my office.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, and knowing how I suppose how fast-paced financial services needed to be in terms of you know revolutionising, building capacity across the whole of the industry.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: We came up with the art of finance as an idea.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Kathy's background is technical, she is finance through and through.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not, I am people, I am you know learning.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: And actually, between the two of us, the blend ended up being the art of finance, which is a training program, to um support support, I'm just gonna say support learners with both the qualifications and the practical skills that they will need to um usually get to a level four um CII diploma, whether it depending on which course or route they go down with us.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, brilliant.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for that overview.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: I like the fact that it's a blend between like yourself and Kathy, one being very technical by the sounds of it, and the other being a bit more around the soft social skills that go alongside training and development.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: And you've kind of merged the two, and that merges the art the art of finance.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's you know, it's really interesting to hear as well that where you've been as part of the BERV group, having these outsourced solutions for these financial planning firms, because essentially you are within the financial planning profession, that's where you sit.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what the podcast is all about is these job jobs opportunities and careers within financial planning, you know, and listening to what the feedback was from the clients that you were working with through appricity and um the outsourced power planning side and the difficulties they were having with their staff in respect of training them.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Because as directors of businesses, I know this, you know this, when you wear a million and one hats, it's very difficult to train your staff, you know, with all the skills and experience that you have in your mind, you've got a job that you need to be doing, and you're hoping that these guys coming in have got the skills, etc., to do what they need to do.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and keeping your eye on um the quality and the operations and everything else that goes with it at the same time.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: We um when I did first start, it was just parasols, and I came at a time when Kathy was desperate to grow parasols um and scale it.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: But in terms of um, so I started as a marketing manager, and I remember very, very vividly on my first day saying, Come on, talk me through your ideal client, what the what let what persona is it?
7:31
SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Oh, we've got a waiting list of clients for parasols.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: I was like, What?
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Um that's you don't need a marketing manager if you've got a waiting list of clients, you know, come on, talk me through the issue, right?
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Actually, what what what's going on here?
7:45
SPEAKER_02: And we knew that the issue was um essentially was was our supply.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: We we just couldn't find enough power planners to be able to meet the demand that we were getting from clients.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh she had already had some success with um recruiting graduates.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: So I had a very unofficial um GWAD scheme within what was just Parasols then.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: So my first job really that I got into was devising uh what is called the GRAD scheme.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know how we got the domain name, www.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: No, I saw that, yeah.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: The grad scheme.co.uk.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, it's the the greatest fluke I'd I'll ever know.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, in creating the grad scheme, that meant that actually we started to grow our own power planners, and in doing that, we had to set almost break out the two-year training framework with graduates so that they were up to the parasol standard.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: And it was then we were able to scale a business at the same time as we were getting clients, begging Kathy saying, you know, come and help me find um some, that actually we thought, you know what, there's an opportunity here.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: We've actually, you know, got the wealth of experience in that, you know, we've been in their shoes, we found it hard to find power planners, which is absolutely ironic considering we're an outsourced power planning firm.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it just meant we were able to actually take the frame and work, all of the learnings that we had firsthand, um, going through that kind of painful process ourselves, and then being able to create a training framework, which you know is is lovely, and it's intentionally been a bl a blend of both um Kathy and I, because and I think for me, um, that really is the USP.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: So, actually, kind of even the language that we start to speak in terms of that whole personal development and the professional development, and coming away from very technical skills and technical language is almost the difference between financial advice and financial planning.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: I think that's kind of very similar debate.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, um, it is lovely that it's a blend and it it was certainly one that was intentionally um positioned to be both practical skills and the qualifications, knowing that our view um for the art finance and and indeed the mission across the Verve group is that it's not any one um kind of stream that makes you a good paraplanner or a good compliance um professional or a good financial administrator, for example.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: You need both the qualifications and the practical skills as well.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: The qualification and the practical skills.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: That's very, you know, the grad scheme, yeah, absolute fluke.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe you managed to get that.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Um so the grad scheme then, and obviously I spoke to Kathy about this in in a little bit of detail as well, but it'd be great to talk to you about it as well.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you you are building homegrown talent, aren't you?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not, you know, you are like every financial planning company out there, and I know this because I run a recruitment company in the financial planning space.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: You yourselves were struggling to find qualified, experienced financial uh sorry, uh administrators and power planners.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So you're thinking, well, okay, well, let's let's grow our own.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's let's build our let's build our own training academy, let's train our own up to be able to grow your parasols and have good quality people within it.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you brought those people in, it wasn't just about here's your CII book, you know, here's your level four diploma, do all your qualifications, read all that, and then you'll be a power planner.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just about that at all, is it?
11:18
SPEAKER_03: It's about the practical.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: So you've got the studying side of it.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: And historically, you know, anybody that's looking to come into financial planning, they always come to us without any experience and say they want to become a financial advisor or they want to become a power planner.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: What qualifications should I do?
11:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, right, well, these are the three routes you can go down qualification-wise.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: And what it keeps coming up in my head is that the qualifications are not going to make you the power planner.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: The qualifications are not going to make you the financial planner.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: And the more I'm seeing these soft, I say soft skills, but people skill type training that's coming out, the likes of what things like what you're doing, which we'll go into a bit of detail about, you know, Catherine Morgan with her, you know, life coaches type approach, know thyself academy, all these kind of life-centered financial planning.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: I love all that type of training because that to me is what gets someone to understand the role, the purpose of what you should be doing within that position.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: But also, if you are going to be client-facing, if you're going to be um working with a financial planner, perhaps if you're an administrator or power planner, you start to understand the culture of the business and you start to understand what is required of you from a skill set level and um communication basis as well.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just about here's a qualification, bang, you're a financial planner.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's what historically has always been the kind of case.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's nice to see things like this.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I come from a training background.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So prior to recruitment, you know, I worked at Aviva and I was I was always training customer service guys out.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: So they would be straight out of university, absolutely no Scooby-Doo about how the FTSE worked, how a pension worked, or anything like that.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So I had to explain to them in basic terms so they could articulate and understand what a client was going through when they're picking the phone up or a financial advisor.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, you're right.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: In in from the outside looking in, financial planning doesn't, it's never really been um a big emphasis on that side of the training and development, has it?
13:07
SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely not.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: And um I mentioned earlier, kind of my my background was within a creative engagement agency.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: And I did, as part of that role, did a lot of work with um within the NHS and you know, values and behaviors work with the junior doctors um campaign and you know, really great, insightful stuff.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And I remember at the time almost leaving the the public sector and and joining Kathy in financial services, and you know, the time was right, hence why I made the move, but thinking, oh, I've like I've come across to the dark side, um, you know, there was so many myths and stereotypes around just generally the financial services community, and that comes from me, where my best friend at the time, Kathy, you know, is in financial services, but yeah, I still very much held those those stereotypes as the truth.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so actually coming into financial services and and you know, listening to the way Kathy talks and and the mission that she's created for Parasols and every other company and the group collectively since then is you know, it for me actually resonates with that sense of purpose that you've just rightly mentioned that actually it's so much greater than what other people would suggest would otherwise assume is the case within financial services.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: So I would think leaving college or you know, at any point, what careers are available to me within the financial services.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: To be honest, I think one they would go banking, which is completely side of financial service finance anyway.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: So I think that there's kind of an education piece in financial services versus finance and accounting, um, or there's a financial advisor.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, I certainly wouldn't be thinking what a power planner was, how technical you need to be for an administrator role, marketing, my you know, my personal role in terms of culture and developing people.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: It's just it brings a much very different skill set, you know, that of compassion, that of um empathy, and um, you know, lots of other things, which for me resonated with the piece I was doing with junior doctors, you know, the work that were the nursing values.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: So yes, I think sorry, I started to go on my soapbox there.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: No, I I totally what you're saying is absolutely spot on because um we are starting to see more and more roles appear within fine within the financial planning profession.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Outside of, I think people are starting to understand administration, they're starting to understand power planning, the financial advisor role.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, those, you know, the admin back office type functions were never even talked about, you know, and power planning in its own right has only become a role within the last sort of five years.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: But there are other positions.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, you can work in marketing, social media, you can be a client engagement manager.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think what we'll see as these financial planning firms start to grow and especially become quite tech heavy as well, you start to hire people in from a tech background, from an IT background.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: So these types of positions are starting to open up within financial planning firms.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: It's not just I'm a financial advisor and that's it.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, there are there are multiple different roles, but no one's really articulating what those roles are and what those opportunities within financial planning are.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: All you ever really see is when you type into the internet, I want to be a financial advisor.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: It's just some, and I shouldn't be ageist, but I'm gonna say it middle-aged white guy talking about how to become a financial advisor.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: They're a financial advisor.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nobody sort of saying, well, actually, there's this role, there's this role.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Have you, you know, you don't have to just be a financial advisor because this is the type of skill set you need to be a financial advisor.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: But I tell you what, if your skill set isn't around that, this is probably something that might interest you, which is power planning, which is more research heavy.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: If the thought of sitting down with somebody or having to go out and win clients or present or anything like that scares the living daylights out of you, then perhaps that's not the bit you're interested in.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: However, if it is something you are interested in doing, but you do lack that confidence, then perhaps there's some training and development required around that to help you get over that fear to move forward and become a financial planner.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think um, yeah, multiple different roles within financial planning, we're gonna see more and more of those come up.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: And um, the education piece about connecting people with what actually goes on to what is out there from a content perspective is is needs to be improved, doesn't it?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: I know the financial um education is a is a big debate and conversation that happens within financial services anyway.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it's it's it's outside of that too.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: So um I mentioned earlier my husband, he's in he's in education, he works within a college, and you know, there's even something by proxy um being able to ex, you know, explain to him and invite him into my world because he's working with really you know aspirational um you know young adults um at that age in college who are just thinking about their career options and you know they don't know what they don't know.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: So actually, there is an element of we need to almost educate the the parents, the career's advisors, the teachers, whatever it may be.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, huge ripple.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we absolutely spot on there, and I think connecting connecting with universities, colleges, etc.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: as well.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: So there is a duty of care to do that in response in respect of trying to draw more people into financial planning is to connect with those universities, connect with those colleges, and have somebody actually articulate again what a career looks like within financial planning because it doesn't get done, does it?
18:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not one of those things that really happen.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: You might have a few companies attend careers fairs or whatever, but um, it's not really done.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean sorry, I was just gonna say we do um attend careers fairs as far as the grad scheme is concerned, and as part of the recruitment for the grad scheme, and we do have some good, really great connections with um particularly our local universities, and I remember the sense of pride.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it was maybe our second cohort, so um well, I think we're on to about our eighth at the moment intake in terms of grads.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: But I remember at the time this sense of satisfaction because we got an application from um a wannabe graduate who had been signposted to us from their from their um careers advisor within a university.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I read that shouldn't have feel that remarkable.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: Um but I I can feel it, I can absolutely feel the excitement in the pit of my stomach, even just recalling it that um kind of that real milestone.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Um that is a milestone, yeah.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: It was um super, and we do do our bit in terms of the graduates that we do have and are successful and have grown and have gained the diploma and they've moved on to um higher positions within um within the Verve group.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Um we do do our bit in terms of press and actually get in touch with the university and sharing the alumni and stuff, but equally, you know, in the grand scheme of things, we're just kind of a drop in the ocean and there's so so much more that we we can do collectively.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: So is the art of finance there to also I can see that you're building, you know, you're part of the Verve group, it is part of the Verve group, the art of finance.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's involved with the development and the hiring of inexperienced staff, the training of them to get them up to certain levels to be able to work with the clients of the Verve group, whether it's parasols or appricity, yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: And you've got that tied down to a lovely like two-year period of how you could take somebody straight out of university and they'll be a qualified financial planner working with a client within two years.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
20:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um there's a slight difference there.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: So it kind of our the the grad scheme is essentially our internal recruitment process within Verve.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: So they go through our process, they assess them, they get a job within the Verve group, and and we have a framework mapped out for them for their training, usually over two years, but that will depend on what role they come in for.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: The art of finance is almost the separate company, and that's the client facing.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: So actually, we're working with um firms who are looking to upskill their team, grow their, grow their um, grow their firm, um upskill, like I said.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: So that the art of finance is is a separate business that's actually um it's kind of outward facing in terms of working with clients to do their with their team what we do via the GWAD scheme, if that makes sense.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned at the very beginning of the of the of the conversation.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: So are you getting approached a lot by clients of yours that are saying that we need to train our staff and they're not sure where to go to get the training?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we have a you know a number of existing clients who, you know, perhaps already use Parasols, um, the power planning side, because they don't have a power planning provision within their firm internally, um, but they want one.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Perhaps they've got a senior administrator who is wanting to develop and um upskill and you know, forward thinking um firm business owners are actually thinking that's some really good talent within the firm.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I want to kind of hold that in terms of the succession planning.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: I need to invest in their training, we'll put I can't do it.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm not often in the office.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: I actually haven't done my RO exams because it was something else completely different when they did it back in the day.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's almost they're outsourcing that training solution need for them.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: It's like the headache that comes with it.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: Because it takes a lot of time to write content, to deliver content, to then continue to support them.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: So the art to finance the programs, the supported supported programs and online courses, depending on whether people would prefer to either kind of study independently and the online options are a great one for them.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: The supported programs is much more guided.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got to set up the framework of what you achieve and various milestones throughout the two years.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: But it does just allow advisors to think, okay, that's kind of with somebody else, and I know they're in good hands, and it's been written, the course programme has been designed to be honest, by Kathy.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Um just because it you know it's important for her, and it's you know it's been her vision for so long.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: So it's written from power planners um or from compliance professionals um and administrators, which is it is important because the roles, particularly with a power planner, is just so varied in every firm you speak to, so um just kind of covers a whole range.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: So whether they are already within financial services and they're um currently sat in a firm, but they're looking to upscale.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, but equally, if I am leaving university or college or just generally at a point where I'm considering my different options, then actually individuals can come and self-fund their own um training and ultimately um they come out the other side with a professional qualification that quite frankly is just the profession screaming out for them.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Um so so okay, let's say for example, I'm a I I've I've got a I've I've taken on a power planner, right?
24:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm a small little firm, I've taken on a power planner and classic.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: I've put an advert out for a power planner, I've had someone sit in front of me that has power planner written on their CV.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but as I've kind of interviewed them, I'm thinking to myself, God, they're as rare as rock and all shit.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: These power, sorry, these power planners.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm I'm eager to get this person hired.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: I'll give them 40 grand because they say power planner on their CV, and that's all I can think about.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I've got a power planner.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: I bring them into my business, I sit there, I'm going, Great, here you go, here's a load of research I need you to do.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't do that.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: I haven't done that before.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've never done that.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: I I just you know do the ad, I do some letters and and all that sort of stuff.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: So you're not a power planner then.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah, I'm a power planner.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're not, and there's this mass confusion, isn't there, between what actually is a power planner and what's like an administrator and a senior administrator, you know, or a report writer.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: There's all these sort of different levels and scales, if you like, to actually what a true power planner actually is.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's a bit of confusion, isn't there?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: And I can feel I feel I feel for the clients when they're take trying to take somebody on.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we have to be so kind of clear to them that this, you know, we outline on a CV, for example, if we put somebody forward to them that this person is this is their skill set, they haven't done this, or this is their skill set, they've done it always, is why they're worth like 50, 60 grand.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you have, and and the some clients just don't seem to ask the right questions at interview, and then they've got somebody in their business that are probably more than capable of doing the job, but just need some fine-tuning and some training and development.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, Oh, for God's sake, I haven't got the time to do this, and that's the headache that you take away.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly yeah, that's exactly it.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Full stop.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for um saying that, Bob.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: That's why I record that one.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, no, it it is, it's exactly that.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's something to be said around they uh, you know, the financial advisors or you know, they're very skilled at what they do.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, aren't we all in terms of the role, but then you know, they're not trainers, um, nor will they be expected to be.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: And it it is difficult because, you know, going back to an earlier sentiment, you know, before anything else, we're just all humans, and by God, do we vary in come in all shapes and sizes, and how we're motivated, you know, are we towards motivated or are we motivated?
26:05
SPEAKER_02: And how do we learn?
26:06
SPEAKER_02: What's our learning styles?
26:08
SPEAKER_02: And it's just a whole new world, which is exactly why um, you know, training providers exist, why skilled trainers and facilitators exist, because there's something around acknowledging your own skill set, whether it be you're a bloody good financial advisor, but that doesn't necessarily make you um a good a good trainer or a good developer of people.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Um so yes, I think there was kind of the for the art of finance when I talked about the blend with CAFE, the program is set up in terms of kind of a set structured program, yeah, which covers the qualifications, supporting them.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: If we take the art of power planning, for example, which is the power planning course, that's over two years getting their CII level four um diploma regulated financial planning, um, at various points also all of the practical skills that they need to know along there.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: So even just being able to delve into the advice, um, the advice journey, understanding like on a kind of base level, the world of financial services, how it works, how what we need to how the reports that they write, for example, later down the line kind of feeds into that journey, the various touch points.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's all well and good, but for me, then I suppose my element is about the personal development too that comes from stepping outside your comfort zone, doing something completely new, and immersing yourself in a world of um jargon and language you've never heard, and it just generally feeling, you know, very overwhelming and and daunting.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a quite a lot of people, it's sort of shocked me at the time when we do the um the welcome and introduction day at the beginning of every cohort, we um get people to we're just as a little icebreaker, we get them to have a player Pictionary.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: So actually it's all around getting to know people better, building peer support, um, and just a bit of fun because you know we all love pictionary.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: And um the amount of resistance sometimes from people where it's like, oh, do I have to stand up or oh I don't really want to um you know tell people what my favourite colour is or whatever it may be.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, it's just I always find that really fascinating.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: That actually is a room full of professionals, quite often, you know, mature.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking even kind of young, young, young adults at that point.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, we've got people on the courses who were, you know, perhaps in the 40s, 50s, and they're there because they've just neglected the the round studies because they've been busy building a family or you know, building the firm without the qualifications.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, just them all sat there.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: And for me, that's the exciting bit because I'm like, actually, as a person, look look at how you will grow over these next two years.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you will finish with a lovely shiny certificate and some great CV credentials and be able to have great knowledgeable conversations around um, you know, the the um tools you use or whatever it may be or the software systems, but you cannot replace the amount of personal development and personal growth that comes from stepping outside your comfort zone and really working towards a I suppose a common goal, and the people in the room are all coming because they just want to want to excel, they want to move the career forward and they want to progress.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: So that's the exciting thing.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: The positions that you're the the the types of courses that you're you're offering at the art of finance are for administrators, power planners, and compliance managers, but not financial advisors.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: We don't do um we don't do finance the art of financial advice, which is what it would be.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Um we certainly haven't um kind of gone into that space yet, but we've stuck to um what we know and what we know we can do well, and that is obviously the power planning, the compliance, and um the financial administration, like you said.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: So they're the supported programs.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: I did mention um earlier in terms of our online courses, um, they're slightly different.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: So we do have the same three programs as online, but it's literally it's the practical skills module.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: You get access to um online or online e-learning, which is great for um, we're finding they are um most popular with those who you know have just got a busy day job and they want to be able to nip in and out and just very practical in terms of how um we lay the content out.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: There's kind of flashcards, we use gamification within the e-learning.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: So that's great for them, but they're the programs, and then we have a range of online courses in specific topics, whether it be the art of suitability, delving into that as a concept, um, effective SMCR, supervision, um, even down to your typical annual tests, you do DPR and anti-money laundering conjug rails.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: So you offer like little segment training as well as the full, the full training.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: So let's say, for example, I'm I'm working um as an administrator and I really want to become a power planner.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's say I'm an administrator listening to this podcast now, and I'm thinking I really want to be a power planner, but the business I'm working for, they obviously don't have the training or development, they can seem to be neglecting it with me.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Now, what I could do is actually turn around to my boss and say, look, the art of finance, they've got a course on how to become a power planner.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think I would love to become a power planner.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Can you can you book the course through the art of finance for me?
31:43
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to do it, they'll they'll train me up, but you're gonna have a far better qualified individual sitting within your business, and ultimately you're gonna be keeping that member of staff because otherwise that person's gonna leave when you know Joe blogs around the corner and says, Hey, there's a financial advice company that will train you to become a power planner.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: So you're trying to bridge that gap.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's about that that really does help as well with staff retention.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, training and training and development is massive for staff retention.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: So many people leave jobs because they feel undervalued and that they're not getting the support required to be able to fulfil their careers because unfortunately the the business is so ingrained in getting pushing themselves forward that they forget that there are staff that want to develop as well.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I like that as well.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: And and there's always a and one of the things for me, I'm not massively, I'm not great at doing any um qualifications.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I tried F FPC one back in when I was at um back when I was at Aviva, and I struggled like hell with it, you know, because of the technical questions and all the I just got so bored, like you know, and I found it so difficult.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: And when I worked in training, I simplified everything.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: I made it fun, I made it engaging, I made it, I had to simplify it.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: I had to go to bloody all the compliance team to get things signed off all the time because I was never allowed to say things.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I had to, I had to kind of word it in a certain way that wasn't, you know, misleading or anything.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: However, you can make finance fun.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to stick a red line through absolutely everything.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: And I love that that what that that's that's what you're doing because I think a big part of learning is that you need to enjoy what you're learning and you need to be able to connect that fun side to it and that interesting side to it, not just the stuff that's really important but can be deemed as quite boring.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: So I think um I think that's a lovely transition, a lovely gap there.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: And if you've got so you can you can literally take somebody from from knowing nothing all the way up to being a level four qualified financial planner.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: And is that level four qualification who's it through the CII, the L IBS?
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: CII um level four.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: So their diploma and I think the technical official name is regulated financial planning.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, absolutely, from potentially knowing absolutely nothing to two years later getting their um the level four plus all of the practical skills that go with it, zero to hero.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Zero to hero.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Now, if I was to put my entrepreneur hat on right now and started looking at your business and what opportunities that to me has, I would say the opportunity there is that you are building talent internally and then placing those qualified individuals then into businesses that require it.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the struggles I suppose a company maybe a bit smaller that wants to grow is well, I could take on a graduate, but I've got to pay that graduate 20 grand a year and it's gonna take them two years to become level four qualified as a power planner.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna get any value out of them for those two years?
34:30
SPEAKER_01: Or you guys train them up and then place them into companies.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: So it's a tricky one, isn't it?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Because no one seems to want to pay for the graduate and train them for two years or have them within their business for two years.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: They didn't seem to see the value in that.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: I suppose if they jump straight onto a course like you've got the art of finance, it means you're gonna fast track them within that two years.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: You tell me, there's a there's an opportunity there.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: How does it work?
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Because there's definitely an opportunity there.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, in terms of what we see, so we're we're up to cohort four five um within the art of finance, or five, yeah, I'm sure it's five, um, within the art of finance already.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: So the students that we have on those cohorts at the minute, um, like I said, it it varies massively.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: There's there's one woman who um I think the welcome day was on the Wednesday.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: That was her very, very first day in financial services the day before she was 30 years in oil and gas.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, she's coming towards the end of her two years now.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, in January, she's got a R06, um, through to people who are already, like I said, working within financial services for probably the same firm for about 20, 25 years, but perhaps they've been almost just in one area of the business and haven't needed to do the wrong qualifications, you know, they've been upskilling the team or growing the firm and um and just have neglected the role.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: So they're almost starting to think, you know, what does my future look like in the next five to ten years?
36:02
SPEAKER_02: And if that's maybe a consultancy route, then actually I'm going to need some qualifications and some credentials behind me.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, so the motivations are very different.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, we've got actually a couple who aren't in financial services but came across us because their dream is to get um a job within finance, they want to be advisors or planners, and that you know they're currently working in retail, so they're self-funding their um qualification.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's amazing too because they are suddenly getting a whole wealth of experience and kind of knowledge transfer that comes from being in a room of peers who are in financial advice firms at the minute, and like we said earlier, there's there's never any um two firms that are exactly the same.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: So immediately we talk about the advice journey as that example again early on in the programme, and we start to just have a really open dialogue around okay, what does the journey look like for you?
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Map it out, draws it, how does it work at what point?
37:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, is your power planner in on the meetings, or is it just something your advisor's only allowed to do?
37:07
SPEAKER_02: And do they happen in the in the office, or do they go out to the home?
37:11
SPEAKER_02: And you've got other people saying, Oh no, no, like you know, we've we're very much hands-on, and the power planners introduced us, you know, almost the advisor, number two, and stuff.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: So all of that wealth of knowledge transfer insight that comes from firsthand experience, you know, those who especially who aren't currently in financial services really, really weap the benefit of.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: So I think for me, more and more um of the forward-thinking financial advice firms do see the benefit of graduates and actually they see it as a chance to get um you know a graduated, educated um professional on board.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: I think the resistance comes from them not being able to deliver on the training, especially in the COVID world.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, good grief, just because we aren't dealing with enough, like let's just throw training into the mix as well now that we're all remote working.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I think they are willing to take them on.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: And actually, there's um a firm we work with at the Art of Finance, they have placed three people in different cohorts, and they've actually worked it into their um job spec when they're recruiting financial power um financial administrators or train um that actually they're saying they need to be prepared to undergo this training framework, which over two years will see them, yes, working within a financial administration role, but you know, power planner um being their destination and they're inundated with applications because you know that that's what people want.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Like you said earlier, people want to be developed, people want to feel invested and valued, and you know, regardless of what the salary bracket is, um, you know, location, that whole L and D budget is absolutely crucial to any good recruitment.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And also, as well, when you take somebody on straight from when you take somebody on straight from university, they are ready and they are willing to get stuck in.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And they're also already learning, so they're already, you know, they're still in that learning mentality.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: So if you chuck them then straight on to like the level four qualification, some probably just think, okay, fine, I'll just carry on learning because I'm already in that habit of learning anyway.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: What they're looking for is that opportunity.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: So they're looking for the opportunities to progress.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: And when someone lays out in front of them a plan of action, they say, right, if you join me at this base at this stage, stage one, right?
39:39
SPEAKER_01: You've got no experience.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: But guess what?
39:41
SPEAKER_01: We've got this training program and it takes you through your administration.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: So whilst you're going through your administration, this is what you're going to be doing in the job.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: And then when you get to this point here, you've got to pass one of these exams, and you think then then by then you should hopefully have passed this exam.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: But as you're going through that process and there's a timeline there, these are all the skills that you're going to be learning.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Not only are you going to be learning them from the art of finance, they're going to be teaching you the practical skills, they're going to be teaching you the actual technical skills, but you're going to get on-the-job learning from us as well.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: And then within that two-year period, you can even within that two, as an employer, they could even within that two-year period say, look, you're starting at£20,000 or 18,000 pounds.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: At the end of that two years, you're going to be fully qualified.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: So this is what your salary is going to be.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: So you just build this wonderful personal development plan that revolves around the development of that new recruit.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you if you're in that interview and you've got somebody in front of you, an absolute superstar, and you can build a plan around their first two years to get them up to level four qualification, you'll win anybody over.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Anybody coming out of university with a master's in economics or whatever, any smart, smart person will go, Wow, you're actually going to totally look after me.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: And that there is the grad scheme, isn't it?
40:49
SPEAKER_01: That is like a bolt-on grad scheme that you can add on to any financial planning firm.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: You consult that financial planning firm to do that.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: But it is, it's it is exactly that.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: And you know, some firms already are out there and they've got do already have their own graduate um scheme, which is great, and they use it for their recruitment.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: I think that is excellent.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't, I couldn't um encourage that more with some um with everybody with every firm.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's something around just really understanding, I suppose, the whole talent management approached around how you attract them and how do you retain them.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: And uh I think it's also an education piece to make sure that the person who is running the firm or the company understand that they are going to get some value, that just because that person isn't level four qualified now or experienced, it doesn't mean that you're not getting value.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: There will be value along the way.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: They are going to be learning.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: These aren't these are bright girls, girls and boys, you know.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: They're not, they're not gonna they're gonna add value at each step of the way.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Um the the some of the key things here is the the fact that you are investing in that person.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: The more you invest in that person, the more likely they are to stay with your company and feel valued and talk about how brilliant your company is.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's a definite area where um there's a as a there is a shortage, and obviously some firms are are doing it, which you're obviously experiencing, but other firms aren't, and they are worried about that training, development, cost, and all the things that go along with it.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: But you're solving that solution, and I think um, so what happens then if let's say, for example, I join you.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, you mentioned the the lady who's in oil and gas, yeah.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: So she's in oil and gas, she's doing what a power planner power planner, art of power planning.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: So she's doing the art of power planning.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Is she still working in oil and gas?
42:38
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: So she she left her what I think was maybe a 30-year career in oil and gas on the um on the Tuesday, and then joined the World of Financial Services on the Wednesday.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: So she's coming to the end of her um two years.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, she's got five of her exams under her belt, she's got R06 to sit in um January.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it it's it's been lovely to see her grow, to be honest.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: So, so lovely and um and heartwarming because it, you know, it's not it's not been easy.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: And to some extent, she was um on the back foot compared to others in the cohort who were already working in financial services, who knew what a power was, um even that in itself, but she's done absolutely amazingly and is almost fulfilling that trainee power planner role internally already.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and yes, it's it is for you know, the firm needs to be very um receptive, I think, for me, in terms of well, thinking around the opportunities that it does bring, everything that you've just said around taking on a graduate scheme, but they also need to be um receptive in the sense of they do come on this course, and for me it is about their personal development.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, I want we're in a classroom and I'm encouraging.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: them as a kind of a as a personal coaching piece you know reach out to your line manager and ask these questions and you know um try and understand or you know approach it in this way lots of pomp prompts which we do to embed their learning so the technical knowledge we we deliver in a classroom go away and do ask these questions within your firm do you know your CIP for example go and find it read it um dissect it um go and scribble your advice journey whatever it may be um but you know they the firm needs to be receptive and responsive to that person who is being challenged to go back and take the you know take the firm forward even because um a lot of the firms are and that's really exciting for them and it's you know it's what the want I mean who what employer doesn't want discretionary effort from the from the staff who's absolutely nobody um but you also need to be of the mindset that you don't mind being positively challenged um or that the perhaps people could be coming up with um you know I don't know a better way or a better solution or they've got a different process of how we gather data on a a series of plans or whatever it may be and that's only going to help and support their student their um employee to get the most out of the course for the firm to be able to get the most out of the value out of their staff too.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: So the the the girl who did the oil and gas was she is she working for you know did she come to you via so a financial planning company or did she come directly so she um she's like I said she was at I think it was maybe 30 years in oil and gas so she she's more of um a mature student let's say um so I think she was planning on leaving oil and gas for whatever reason anyway um she was friendly with um the village um the financial advisor in her local idiot then friendly with the village idiot idiot oh no no it's not a village idiot idiot but um yeah so the village that she lives in it's kind of it's the local um financial advisor and I think they must know and he had a he's kind of got his own succession planning in kind of legacy building he wants to be out of the firm and all of that type of stuff so he's actually he hired um her and indeed another um another administrator who's also on the course so that they're both on it together which is also very lovely because they get that peer support in the classroom and in the office um so yeah she she is in a in a firm but it it's very new um it's very new for her and to be honest it's very new for the advisor so up until um not long ago he was just a sole advisor and it's only that he's starting to bring people in because he wants to be out which is the is the right thing um but he's doing it the right way and that he's in investing in his team he recognises that for him to get out he needs to bring other people on um yeah so and there's a shortage of good quality power planners so you know you can't just wait for some absolute gems to come along is going to be perfect for you why not just invest in your staff you've already got and and and upskill I might work for him you know he was forward thinking enough to think okay right that's my that's where I am in five years well it's going to take me at least two three years to get somebody um you know that at a standard or of quality that I would be happy with there is a there is an apprenticeship scheme isn't there um what for the verb group or just in general there's not an app no as in there isn't there is a financial planning apprenticeship scheme yes there is um and to be honest Kathy and I go around in circles all and all at the time about apprenticeships and um you know to be honest it was a conversation that we had even just yesterday and it's very topical and we've always stayed clear of the apprenticeship side of things simply because um as soon as you start going into the realms of um apprenticeships then with that comes offstead and they expect you to operate in the way that um a school would um and for us you know it's not um where we want to be spending our time actually navigating red tape is not a thing it's not a pleasurable um experience for us nor is it for the firms but equally looking at the curriculum that they set we actually don't agree with it um as first time power planners um we we look at it and think actually no they're not teaching the the right things that it takes or for us it yeah we've intentionally stayed away from apprenticeships for that reason I think apprenticeships can often be exploited as well because you don't have to pay somebody a specific salary you can just pay them like around 600 pounds a month and I think apprenticeships have always been relatively they're always deemed as being this brilliant way of getting in but it's also a really easy way to exploit for cheap labour.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: Someone coming directly out of say university isn't going to take an apprenticeship because they can walk into a 25 grand recruitment job if they wanted to.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's they're not going to do it.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like um I don't see how that kind of I don't really see how the apprenticeship works um unless you're taking somebody out of like college or school or something like that.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: And I just don't know if that's attractive to anybody straight out of school.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: But it leaves it open doesn't it to the profession itself having this real difficulty in trying to find good quality power planners financial planners and attracting younger people to the profession but is there anything out there that can fund and help smaller financial planning or large financial planning firms grow?
49:42
SPEAKER_02: Is there a grant or anything like that that you guys tap into um to I I don't not that I'm aware of nationally we have looked at um local grant funds up in here in the northeast just because it has been a conversation um that we've considered for kind of local firms up here.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: I think because it's the realms of financial services um it usually as far as the ESF funding's concerned are usually where it comes from um it's not yeah it kind of doesn't fit within the world of financial services.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: That said I don't know all of the local authorities and kind of the different grants that are available regionally but um our experience certainly hasn't been strange because you'd think there would be because there is a definite need for financial planning for people financial education financial coaching financial planning and the distinct lack of financial plan isn't decreasing is only going to make that more difficult for the general public to get access to that advice.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: You'd think there would be something in place that would do that.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Now if that funding was there and it was in place and a business owner can say right okay brilliant I will take on someone from university because you're going to cover half the salary for year one then they tie in with the art of finance.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's a beautiful relationship and that's a beautiful way to get more people into the profession.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: But it's money in it yeah absolutely and yeah let's not kind of delve into government infrastructures and uh no I don't want to do that either but I was just one I was just wondering if there was anything that you guys that that was out there that you could tap into like that but obviously there isn't no fair okay we're aware of does anybody get stuck into the art of finance and take up your course without any experience and without working in financial planning already?
51:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah so that was the guy that I mentioned on Core Heart 3 I think he is and he's um I think he works in retail I think at the minute he's in some sort of ops role um but his his fiancee I think works within financial services and I think together um they're kind of mid-20s I think they've got kind of a a greater dream that one day they'll both have their own financial planning um practice so he's very motivated and and and knows kind of where he's going towards but yeah ultimately he's working a full-time job outside of finance I think he's in retail absolutely smashing his exams and just the practical skill side of stuff just really really comes natural to him um and for me that's lovely because actually it becomes a vocation doesn't it that like actually he was meant to be this it was meant to take this route there's plenty of people out there that would make fantastic financial planners and power planners um but are just being held back by the entry aren't they getting into the actual profession and doing it.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I think without a shadow of a doubt your what you're offering as a solution to taking on people without experience is is definitely there.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: It's a definite solution um because um I think I think financial planning firms want to take on good quality grads and they are taking on good quality grads they are starting to do it but um yeah as you say it's just that what value am I going to get out in the first couple of years but if you're if you if you have it built into that first two year program and you're part of it the art of finance or they have an in even if they have an internal development team it's only going to add value um value moving forward but it's a it's a long game in it but then it's not in it's not on the admin or power planning side is it?
53:05
SPEAKER_01: It's not a long game at all because they'll they'll start to get it within six months.
53:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and you can and you can start using them within your depending on how your firm set up and you know what your resources available absolutely you can have them power planning quite quickly um if you've got the setup to be able to you know quality check and um manage operations and stuff.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't have to be a long game um but it was interesting there that you said around almost is it deemed the long game because I I don't know whether you um watched our live event back in October but actually Kathy launched then a an a new not-for-profit initiative with the Verve group um and it's called we are change and essentially it was kind it's our view as of the Verve group in terms of where we are in COVID in that um we all talk about you know the advice gap the need to you know attract a new generation that new generation of of talent within financial services um but we don't do a a great deal to do about it so actually in the middle of COVID when actually yes it's understandable people aren't necessarily going to be doing a recruitment drive for all of the reasons you know not committing to salaries you know workload being down whatever it may be um but we've created this initiative which essentially is going to be looking at those who unfortunately are probably going to you know lose their jobs as a result of COVID specifically looking at hospitality sectors and you know retail becoming unemployed as financial services when we're sat there and saying we just can't find anybody.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: And yet here we are like constantly being told that we're at threat of almost a million people in hospitality alone who are about to lose their jobs well what a great opportunity that brings for us as a as an industry that we suddenly have this you know pool of people who you know are going to be crying out for you know whether it be new careers or or jobs, whatever it may be.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: So we are change is the initiative and that's actually us working with um financial um advice firms um the big providers um and stuff to actually get pledges of support from them so£85 a month where essentially the the sponsoring to put a person through their qualifications and train them up.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: So using the model that we've created for the art of finance they pledge their support we go out and find the people um and basically also put them through their qualifications so the£85 a month over the over a two year period essentially just covers covers their their CII costs um their exams the books the membership that type of thing um with the view of actually we can't be recruiting them right now that's fair enough we're not in that position and nor should we be kind of um putting that commitment out there but we can be training them we absolutely can be training them so yes 2020 has been an absolute um challenge of a year for all of the reasons we already know about absolutely what happens if we flick the switch and we start to think of it as an opportunity instead um where actually we can be growing that talent pool we can be building that capacity so that actually come two years time that we're starting to think right okay the ground settled again I'm feeling a bit structured I want to tap into that um I've suddenly got many more um qualified and skilled power planners um administrators whatever it is than we otherwise would have had why do we start looking for them in two years let's let's start building and that was called we are change yes yeah we are change so so who's so who sponsors who so you you go to companies mainly within financial services then do you and just say look do you want like like is it a charity is that how it works um yeah so it's it's essentially is is it will be in the kind of legal structure terms will be set up um as a charity it's kind of Kathy's baby so she's having all of the conversations with with our founding partners but basically it was a nugget of an idea that she had before our last live event um back in October and just you know you know Kathy she's very desperate and passionate about doing her bit you know that that big mission piece isn't isn't just lip service like actually yes there isn't anything in it for us right now um but actually there is collectively as an industry that if we can grow financial services then up and kind of you know future proof it for generations to come then absolutely we all will gain from it further down the line.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: And companies can companies can pay into that we are changing so kind of giving back to the profession but also as well because it's a charity donation from a tax efficient tax efficient perspective.
57:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: So for me it's almost a bit like that makes total sense that's well clever it is it's I've been thinking about something like that for ages.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: I didn't quite know how you would do it and that's pretty much spot on it you can speak to um Kathy about it.
58:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's only£85 a month so it's not you know it for us it was it you know it's a massive project for us don't we right yeah huge project which you know with the help of the founding partners is obviously it's just gonna you know we need to approach it collectively um because it is one piece you know it's it's systemic change we're talking here it's huge um or could be huge but being able to actually then break that down so that actually it's not overwhelming for you know a financial advice firm or an individual you know I I might just set up a direct debit for£85 a month and almost sponsor a person like I'm you know it's not the charity appeal necessarily but as fine the heartwarming and then that good um feeling heartwarming feeling of being able to help somebody and support them on gaining a career like is is is a is a lovely piece and something that if we all just did our bit and we all just did one like the ripple effect that we could create would be huge.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a definite it's a there's a definite altruistic um absolutely go go give a type mentality to that give to receive and also what you'll then you know if we look if we put the if we put the business head on it as well I suppose you can't if it's a charity there can you um you know we don't the we don't want to um gain from it you know we we have had resistance or what's it we um fire cafe you know those conversations we've had with um the big providers you know what is it what's in it for you so you know something but actually it's not like you know right now there there isn't the 85 pound literally works out what however much it works out for the your exams box and your CII costs so it's kind of self um self-sustainable we'll take on the investment of you know the marketing and stuff we've already got a framework there for the art of finance so in terms of being able to recruit them it's just gonna be um time not necessarily resource but yes the where we see we can gain is is growing the profession is growing an industry uh good marketing for you isn't it you're you know you're you're doing a good thing um and the more you're out there doing that the more people are going to see the other levels of support that you offer in respect to the verve group what else you could well yeah it's just this oh that sounds that sounds really good are you talking like sort of people that let's say for example you you you know someone said I want to become a power planner right so they join that uh we are change right but they're currently working in McDonald's or they're currently working wherever it doesn't matter does it because they're they can be working in another job but studying on the side with an aim to then becoming a financial um administrator or power planner or whatever.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: To be honest I would expect that be the case you know I for one if I had suddenly just lost my job um in in the current months I would be going out and just getting anything I could so it's not a case that we're asking them to you know need that income still coming in they'll study in the same way much like an open university course really it's a distance learning course or there'll be a number of days where we'll you know need them to be in a classroom so we can talk through the exciting stuff of R01 and beyond for example.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_01: I should come and work for the Verve group I think you're on the same page as me I've got some really good I've got some really good ideas you know what you're lacking is somebody who works in recruitment and has built a recruitment business in financial planning.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_02: Anybody would think we're just about to go on a recruitment drive Sam there might be a synergy there.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_02: Well I tell you I've got some bloody good ideas and you're not a million miles away from my idea really um which I would share off offline um but um no I love it it sounds really good and it's what I like about it it's like you're actually creating a solution yeah you know you're not just talking about it which a lot of people are um you know you've got to get more people in or so what are you gonna do about it then and like um takes a certain summer to actually say I'm gonna do client yeah no do you know what I love that you've said that because I've said that to Kathy all along for me like the challenge it's you know it's kind of too ballsy as far as the marketing confidence but it is very much about putting your money where your mouth is um Kathy says for as long as she's been in finance which is you know 15 plus years a hell of a lot longer than me people always just say the same thing oh we've got a new next generation who are they we need to get new people in but really like what are you doing about it?
1:02:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah stop talking about it what are you doing?
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: So I suppose for us there was something around you know it is bold and it is brave but that's what the verve group's about and it was a case of we'll we can do something but actually make it more manageable for people even if they set up a direct effort of£85 a month and they can sleep at night feeling like they've done their bit without really having to do much thought or um kind of much more give much more time or contribution that perhaps they don't otherwise have so interest right if someone if someone came to you and said I want to not do that but I wanted to become a power planner I'm not working in power planning at the moment I'm not working in financial services I'm working at Dixon's or whatever.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: They still open Dixon's curries I think that's got everybody who works in financial planning used to work in selling TVs now.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of image I'm putting out but if they came and said look you know I want to be a power planner how much does it cost them per month does it cost them 85 quid or is that actually just like the cost it would be on the charity side so what happens if I didn't go through the charity side and I wanted to be a power planner and everyone's telling me go get your qualification first.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: So I've gone to get my qualification first I've come to you because that happens yeah how much does it cost per month?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_01: So well it wouldn't so um so if they were you know that person a consumer in that respect um member of the public they don't pay the£85 a month that's the the pledge for employers firms providers to do their bit um they would get the train they would get the course free because actually those people over here are funding it for them so to one side put the change center to one side I love that brilliant but if I was a power if I wanted to become a power planner through art of five art of power planning the art of finance how much would it cost me?
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: Do I pay monthly do I pay yearly?
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: How does it um so yeah so if you basically for people who are self-funding their qualifications what we say is the the total fee which is um three and a half grand plus fat is basic what we do for them who are self-funding is we just agree that they can um split that over 24 months so the two years so I actually don't know the maths off the top of my head but um we say that they can just pay monthly installments when it's you know the the firms who are paying um it's it's two 50% um instalments okay so if the firms paying it's 5050 yeah but for as a person who you know is perhaps currently already working and having to fund it themselves then actually it just makes it much more manageable to pay however much per month as opposed to so if someone came to me and said Sam I would 15 grand uh 1500 pounds sorry so if someone came to me and said Sam I really want to be a financial I really want to be um a power planner um I haven't got any experience at the moment I could say as a bit of advice I'd say look you know why not go and check out the art of finance you could do a the art of the art of power planning that will get you up to level four within 24 months but what it means is that you can still do your current job at the moment you can study for the you know until you get up to the point where you've got a real great deal of knowledge and understanding of it and then you could go looking at some job opportunities.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_01: But when you go into that new job opportunity you're more marketable because you've already gone off your own back and actually got your qualification um already in motion.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: So you can turn around to an employer and say look I'm already working with the art of finance this is what I'm doing there.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: So I'm within two years I'll be level four qualified and they give me the training up to this point.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_01: But now I feel like I'm ready to step into a role just to get some experience and within a year you can have a fully qualified power planner.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_01: So that helps them become more marketable.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: So that's a really anybody listen to this Who wants to be a power planner?
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: That's a really, you know, that's a really clear cut bit of advice there.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_01: Get yourself booked in with you guys and you'll be market yourself, you know.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: That's a and that's something that definitely needs to be talked about if you're not already talking about that.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_02: Because um we do, and there's something around actually the brand in itself with the art of finance, because it's been, you know, it's off the back of Kathy and her credentials and parasols, who are well known within the world of financial services and lots of firms.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_02: Like there's something around it just giving you your CV um some some kudos, to be honest.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_02: Like actually, I've I've trained kind of the Kathy Harrison way or the Parasols way.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we do we do talk about that.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_02: Um obviously we're not in a position where we can guarantee guarantee people jobs at the end, but absolutely we support them in terms of that um next step in their employment, um, the types of you know, coach them in terms of what those conversations or interviews they could be having with financial planners or um and just being able to pop it on the CV is it for us, we we think there is a kind of a badge of honour there to say that you've gone the art of finance way.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: So, to summary, really, you're offering training and solutions for financial planning firms.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: So if they want to put their staff through administration, power planning or compliance training and qualifications, hand it over to the art of finance.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: Not only is it going to be the technical side of it, but they're also gonna look on the practical side of it and combine the two to make it an enjoyable and interesting experience.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_01: If somebody is has no experience, they want to become a power planner or administrator, or even just want to have a little stab at what it's like within financial services, they can do some online qualifications, they can sign up for the full 24 months to become a power planner, for instance.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_01: But again, learning the actual technical side so you're not on your own, that you've got somebody who can teach you the practical side with a bit of you know, simple uh psycholinguistics, if you like, and it's a simpler, simple way of understanding exactly what the actual process is and get you up to that level nice and quickly with a good level of understanding to help you become more marketable.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_01: Sounds really good.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_01: I like the sound of all that.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: It sounds really great.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: This is what I mean.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_01: See, I'm getting it.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_01: But I do um, it's funny because I think because of my training and development background, and I do this is the thing I think a lot of recruitment companies get labeled as just being being you don't really care more about the money and just flinging CVs around.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_01: But genuinely, as a company, and as I've always pushed and always promoted training and development, even within my own business, you know, the guys that are in here fully understand what financial planning is and what they do and the different levels and the problems and the issues that we have within it.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm in the background at the moment.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_01: The reason why I've created the financial plan of life is to solve a problem.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_01: There is a huge amount of people that want to become financial planners but can't seem to get into the industry, and there's a huge amount of companies that want to grow and can't seem to take anybody on.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: So the whole point of the financial plan of life is to be able to bridge that gap and sort of educate two sides.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've also got a plan around bringing companies.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: So basically, I've got a bit of a recruitment killer app idea, which is going to reduce the total cost for recruitment for financial planning firms, but only if every single financial planning firm takes part in it.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: So collectively, as a as a profession, if money and cost is the issue, then I'll reduce that right down.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: But you have to use the you have to use the platform, you have to use the app.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it allows um any candidate to approach a company in the right way.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: So they themselves can look at a company and see exactly what that company are offering based upon the advert, the advertisement, the careers page that sits on this platform.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_01: So it's very, very transparent and quickly they can ascertain whether or not they're the right company for them.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: If they are the right company for them, they can then display who they are, and that company can then get in contact with them and they can start lines of communication.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_01: And what sits within that is also a platform for training and development and career development tools, etc., within the financial planning profession.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_01: So a driven platform about careers and development, which has been built by recruitment, not by planners, because you've got next gen planner, et cetera, that have got trying to do that, but it's built by planners.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_01: What do they know about recruitment?
1:10:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, true.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_02: I get it.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
1:10:09
SPEAKER_01: So there we go.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_01: I'll run that by I'll run that by you off offline at another time.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: Listen, thank you so much for your time today.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: It's been a real pleasure talking to you.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and um and uh have a you know, have a wonderfully blessed day.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, and you too.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, uh thanks for having me.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: Cool, you're right.