Latest / The Burnout Podcast with Fexingo: Workplace Exhaustion, Recovery, and Sustainable Careers / How Career Burnout Reshapes Your Boundary-Setting
Transcript
- Lucas: So here's a scenario I think most of us know. It's 10:47 PM, you're already in bed, and you hear your phone buzz. It's a work email. Not urgent — but your colleague wrote it like it is. And you feel that familiar pull to reply right now. Luna: Oh, I know that pull. It's almost physical, isn't it? Like an itch you have to scratch. Lucas: Exactly. And what's interesting is that the more burned out you are, the harder it is to resist that pull. It's not a character flaw. It's cognitive depletion. Luna: Okay, say more about that. You mean we literally don't have the mental energy to set a boundary? Lucas: That's exactly what the research shows. There's a 2019 study in the Journal of Applied Psychology — they looked at people over a two-week period and found that individuals already in a state of burnout were 63 percent more likely to agree to unreasonable requests. Not because they wanted to, but because the part of the brain that evaluates long-term costs was essentially offline. Luna: Sixty-three percent. That's huge. So burnout doesn't just make you tired — it actively rewires your decision-making around boundaries. Lucas: Right. And I think that's the piece that often gets missed. We talk about boundaries as if they're a skill you either have or you don't. But the research suggests it's more like a cognitive resource. When you're depleted, your boundary-setting muscle just doesn't fire. Luna: That honestly makes me feel a little better. I've had periods where I just said yes to everything and then beat myself up for it. But maybe I was just running on empty. Lucas: I think that's really common. And there's a great book that reframes this — Harriet Lerner's 'The Dance of Anger,' which is about forty years old now but still one of the best things ever written on boundaries. Luna: I haven't read that one. What's her take? Lucas: She argues that boundaries are not about pushing people away. They're about clarifying what's yours to carry and what isn't. And she has this line — I'm paraphrasing — that anger is a signal that a boundary has been crossed. But most of us are trained to ignore that signal. Luna: So the anger isn't the problem. It's the information. Lucas: Exactly. And that's a useful frame when you're burned out, because you're probably getting a lot of those signals and just overriding them. So the first step isn't to become a boundary-setting ninja overnight. It's just to notice when you feel that flash of resentment. Luna: And then what? Because noticing it and knowing what to do with it are two different things. Lucas: Totally. So let's get concrete. Let's go back to the 10:47 PM email. You feel that flash. What's a realistic next move? Luna: I used to reply immediately — always. And then I started using a single line: 'Thanks for this. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.' That was it. No apology. No explanation. Lucas: And how did that land? Luna: Honestly? Fine. No one ever complained. But it took me months to feel okay sending it without adding 'Sorry for the delay' when there was no delay. Lucas: Right — that's the habitual apology. And it's a really common pattern. There's a communication researcher named Nedra Glover Tawwab who wrote a whole book on boundaries, and she has a great reframe. She says boundaries aren't walls — they're gates that you control. You get to decide who comes in and when. Luna: I love that. Gates, not walls. It changes the image completely. A wall keeps everything out. A gate implies you can open it when you choose. Lucas: Exactly. And that gets at something important for people in the thick of burnout. Because when you're exhausted, you tend to either have zero boundaries — you let everything in — or you build walls, you go cold. Tawwab's image of a gate is a middle path. Luna: So what does that look like in practice? Give me a script for the 10:47 PM email — the gate version. Lucas: Sure. You read the email. You feel the pull. And then you type: 'Got this. Will follow up in the morning.' And then you put the phone down. That's the gate. You acknowledged receipt — you didn't ignore it — but you set the time. Luna: That's so much less pressure than what I used to do. I'd either reply at 11 PM or stew about it all night. Lucas: And the stewing is its own kind of energy drain. That's actually one of the hidden costs of not setting boundaries — the mental rumination. Your brain keeps the file open. Luna: So the boundary doesn't just protect your time. It also closes the mental tab. Lucas: Precisely. And that's why even a small boundary like that one can feel restorative. It's not about being rude or distant. It's about saying, 'I'm in charge of when I respond.' Luna: I want to push back a little though. What if your workplace culture really does expect immediate replies? Some people are in environments where saying 'I'll get back to you tomorrow' is actually risky. Lucas: That's a fair challenge. And I think if you're in a truly toxic environment, boundary-setting can only do so much. But for most workplaces, the expectation is more assumed than stated. Very few job descriptions say 'must reply to emails within ten minutes at any hour.' We create that pressure ourselves. Luna: Or we project it. I've definitely assumed my boss expected an instant response when she never actually said that. Lucas: Right. And there's a simple test you can run. The next time you get a late email, try the 'tomorrow' response and see what happens. Nine times out of ten, nothing bad happens. And that experience builds evidence for your brain that the boundary is safe. Luna: That's actually a really small experiment. I like that it's not a huge commitment. Lucas: Small is the point. Especially when you're burned out, you don't need a whole new system. You need one micro-boundary you can practice. Luna: Let's talk about what happens if you try it and it doesn't go well. Because that fear is real for a lot of people. Lucas: Sure. Let's say you send the 'tomorrow' response and your colleague writes back within five minutes pressing for an answer. Now you have a piece of real information: this person has a different expectation. And that's actually useful — because now you can decide if this is a one-time thing or a pattern you need to address. Luna: So it's not a failure of your boundary. It's data. Lucas: Exactly. And that's a mindset shift that Lerner talks about. Boundaries are not about controlling other people's behavior. They're about communicating your limits. The other person can still push. But you've done your part. Luna: That takes a lot of the pressure off. I think a lot of us feel like if we set a boundary and the other person doesn't respect it, then we've failed. But maybe the boundary still stands — we just need to reinforce it. Lucas: Reinforce, not abandon. And there are different levels of reinforcement. You could say, 'I understand this is urgent. I'm available first thing at 8 AM — can we talk then?' That's still a boundary, just a slightly firmer one. Luna: Right. And you're offering an alternative, which makes it collaborative instead of combative. Lucas: Exactly. And I think that's the gate metaphor again — you're deciding when to open it, but you're not slamming it shut. Luna: Okay, so we've talked about the late-night email. What about boundaries during the workday? The colleague who constantly drops by your desk or sends a Slack message that derails your focus. Lucas: That one is harder in some ways because it's immediate. You can't just delay a response — they're standing there. But the same principle applies. You can say, 'I'm in the middle of something. Can I come find you in thirty minutes?' Luna: And then actually do it. That's the key, right? If you say thirty minutes and then forget, you've taught them that your boundary doesn't hold. Lucas: That's a really important point. A boundary is only as credible as your follow-through. That's why starting small matters. Don't promise a thirty-minute return if you're not sure you'll remember. Start with something you can definitely keep. Luna: Like 'I'll get back to you after lunch.' That's a concrete, short window. Lucas: Exactly. And then you build from there. The research on habit formation shows that the smaller the initial commitment, the more likely you are to repeat it. So if you can set one micro-boundary today and follow through, you've started rewiring the pattern. Luna: I want to ask about something else. What about internal boundaries? The ones you set with yourself. Like, not checking email after 9 PM, or not working on weekends. Lucas: Those can be the hardest because there's no external person to hold you accountable. But they're also the most important for recovery. Because if you don't have a boundary with yourself, no external boundary will stick. Luna: What's a good starting point for an internal boundary? Lucas: I'd pick one time-based rule. For example: after 8 PM, the work phone goes in a drawer. Not on silent. In a drawer. The friction of having to get it out is enough to make you think twice. Luna: That's brilliant. It's not a willpower test — it's an environmental design. Lucas: Exactly. And that's the kind of small structural change that works when you're depleted. You don't rely on willpower. You rely on setup. Luna: You know, we've been talking about boundaries for a while. And I realize that the reason I struggled with them for so long is that I thought they had to be big and dramatic. But what you're describing is tiny adjustments. Lucas: Yeah. And I think that's the burnout trap — you think you need a complete overhaul. But the research on behavior change is really clear: small, consistent actions beat big, sporadic ones every time. Luna: Quick honest thing — a handful of listeners chip in monthly through buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo, and honestly that's what keeps this show ad-free and going. So if you've gotten something out of this conversation, that's the reason it exists. Lucas: Yeah. And we mean that. It's not a big ask — it's just a small way for people who find value in it to help keep it sustainable. Like the micro-boundaries we talked about. Luna: Exactly. So back to that gate image — I want to close with something practical. What's one thing someone can try tonight? Lucas: Tonight, before you go to bed, put your phone in another room. That's it. One physical boundary. And tomorrow morning, notice how you feel when you pick it up. Luna: I love that. Simple, no guilt, no big commitment. Just a gate. Lucas: Just a gate.