Latest / Sorta Sophisticated / Episode 088 - White Tablecloth Anxiety: A Beginner’s Guide to Fine Dining

Transcript

Episode 088 - White Tablecloth Anxiety: A Beginner’s Guide to Fine Dining · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where I pretend to be funny and aren't really, and Amanda pretends to laugh at my jokes. And we think we talk to you about stuff that's important and relevant and makes you a better dinner guest.
• 0:18
  Speaker B: Speaking of dinner guests.
• 0:19
  Speaker A: Whoa. What up? What are we talking about, sista? By the way, that's Amanda.
• 0:24
  Speaker B: Hello.
• 0:24
  Speaker A: Here we are. Yay. Episode. I don't know, 88. We're still at it. Let's go.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: We've been doing good. It's a new year. We did good.
• 0:31
  Speaker A: New Year's Day. New me. Let's go. We got the seven deadly sins behind us. We did our goals and objectives for the year.
• 0:38
  Speaker B: Here we are.
• 0:38
  Speaker A: What is our big goal and objective?
• 0:40
  Speaker B: Let me tell you, my 2026.
• 0:42
  Speaker A: What?
• 0:43
  Speaker B: It's going to be the best year ever.
• 0:44
  Speaker A: Whoa, really?
• 0:45
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 0:45
  Speaker A: Is that.
• 0:46
  Speaker B: It's because I started out really well this year.
• 0:48
  Speaker A: A big birthday.
• 0:49
  Speaker B: Oh, that, too. That is coming up.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: Wait, for clarity, everybody. She's not turning 50, dudes. She's turning 40. Everybody bring it down, like, five notches, okay? Do you know what I did on my 40th birthday? Well, not my 40th birthday. Gabby's 40th birthday.
• 1:00
  Speaker B: What'd you do?
• 1:01
  Speaker A: Ran a marathon at Catalina. Yeah, no, this what my wife wanted to do with her 40th birthday. Not go on a cruise. Not do it. Slog through rain and mud 26.2 miles. And then we got it on. It was excellent. Okay. All right. Sore legs and all. Wait a second. What's up? Because I said be better dinner guests, and you said it's like, it's on. Like, what's going on?
• 1:24
  Speaker B: It is.
• 1:25
  Speaker A: What are we talking about?
• 1:26
  Speaker B: In order to, like, kick off our 40th celebration, we went to the French Laundry. You would appreciate this and have questions.
• 1:33
  Speaker A: I have a million questions about French Laundry. Do you know the history of French Laundry? Do you have any idea?
• 1:38
  Speaker B: I learned some of the history, but.
• 1:41
  Speaker A: It sounds like, you know, number one rated restaurant in the world. In the world. In 2003 and 2004.
• 1:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. Crazy.
• 1:49
  Speaker A: No, not even, like, top 50. This is, like, crazy. Yeah. No, no. Now it's like, what? Like, what is it grandfathered in.
• 1:56
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: It's still got three Michelin stars, everything but, like, it's like, now it's just, like, the coolest place to go.
• 2:00
  Speaker B: Right. And so, like, in all fairness, I don't know much of the history I knew. Basis of this was that, you know, Newsom went to, you know, French.
• 2:09
  Speaker A: No. Covid.
• 2:09
  Speaker B: During COVID Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, right.
• 2:12
  Speaker A: Blew everybody with no masks.
• 2:14
  Speaker B: You have to stay home.
• 2:15
  Speaker A: Everybody stay home.
• 2:16
  Speaker B: But I'm everybody. Right, Right.
• 2:18
  Speaker A: I totally.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: So, so friend was like, we should go. I was like, oh, but it's, you know, fine dining.
• 2:23
  Speaker A: No, this is going to be huge because I have not really fine dined and I think this is. No, I haven't.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: Oh, that's surprising.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: No, no, this is excellent. This is the perfect get cultured and curious episode. This is the whole point.
• 2:33
  Speaker B: I mean, it definitely was.
• 2:34
  Speaker A: Yes. This is going to be glorious. So here's what we're going to do. Like, we're. We're off script. Like, we're not going to do any of this. I mean, I'll do some quick history on, like, dining and how it came, and then I'm. I think we're just going to launch into, like, me asking you a bunch of questions and you just like, on. Right. Let's just go and see what happens. This is gonna be okay.
• 2:52
  Speaker B: New year, new you.
• 2:53
  Speaker A: Right? We're just out. We are out there, baby. We are just out there and we're loving every minute of it. Okay. Official title is White Tablecloth Anxiety. A Beginner's Guide to Fine Dining Fair.
• 3:04
  Speaker B: And in all fairness, like, if you don't know what you're walking into, there is a little bit of anxiety there.
• 3:09
  Speaker A: Oh, and I even have a question about that.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Oh, you do?
• 3:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. Later. Go ahead, continue your thought.
• 3:14
  Speaker B: No, but, like, if you don't know what you're walking into and then you walk into it, it is like a whole.
• 3:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:19
  Speaker B: Wave of like, oh, high anxiety.
• 3:21
  Speaker A: This is why I freaking. Why I haven't done it.
• 3:24
  Speaker B: So that's good. I like the title.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is good. This is good. And of course, people, it makes us cultured or curious because fine dining is about being snobby. And like, who doesn't want to be snobby? Okay. Right. Just kidding. Okay. That was bad, I think, because everybody's got to go to a Michelin, like, rated restaurant, like, one time in their life.
• 3:41
  Speaker B: So here's the thing is that what I've realized going there is that we went with somebody, he's a fantastic chef, and he though, doesn't like to craft, per se, his bite. Right. But everything that the food, you're already.
• 3:55
  Speaker A: Way too sophisticated for me, I'm losing.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: But it's all just on presentation, right? But the experience of the presentation having a crafter bite versus just like, here's your beautiful food. Please eat it. Two very different experiences. So it does get you into a whole different, like, cultured mindset. And then you have to think, like, people eat like this a lot. Like, not on the daily, but, like, weekly.
• 4:15
  Speaker A: So here's. Here's what I would say, right? Yeah. So I'm with you. But, like, I would say this, like, the cultured or curious part for us, for sophisticated, I think it's like, go once or go twice. Because the idea is get out of your comfort zone, right? It's. Get uncomfortable.
• 4:28
  Speaker B: That is something.
• 4:29
  Speaker A: As soon as you're going monthly. And I'm not saying you're snobby. Don't get me wrong. Like, if you can afford it, you can afford it. But I don't think then you're, like, being super sophisticated because you regularly find dime bullshit. I think it's like a once or twice or three times in your life kind of thing to, like, learn about that experience. Yes, that's the experience. Bingo. All right, got it. Okay.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Okay, so we start with word of the week.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Word of the week. Word of the week. Let's go. Okay. Word of the week is Piquant. Yes. P, I, Q, U, A, N, T. Piquant. Why are you laughing?
• 5:00
  Speaker B: Because I can't even. I can't even.
• 5:02
  Speaker A: You've never heard of that? I thought. I figured you would know that it means pleasantly sharp or spicy or stimulating. No, originally about food. Yes. Like, food is. Yes.
• 5:14
  Speaker B: But, like.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: Okay, that's where it comes from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could say for anything now, so anything could be, like, literally peaking. It comes from the French word picour. I don't know how to say that. To prick or sting. So in France you would say, like, I don't know.
• 5:26
  Speaker B: Adequately picked word then. Yeah, for the French laundry, I guess.
• 5:28
  Speaker A: You know, I have to ask Eric, my brother.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: Oh, you should. Yeah, yeah.
• 5:31
  Speaker A: My beau frere. What was it? Beau frair. My beautiful brother.
• 5:34
  Speaker B: Has he been in French laundry?
• 5:35
  Speaker A: Huh? I don't know. I gotta ask him.
• 5:37
  Speaker B: You have to ask him now? Yeah.
• 5:38
  Speaker A: That's wild. Okay, anyway. Piquant.
• 5:40
  Speaker B: Piquant.
• 5:41
  Speaker A: Piquant. Piquant. We're going with piquant. Okay. Yeah. To prick or sting. In this case, sharp, spicy or stimulating. Okay. I mean, that goes with food.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: Like, I guess it was good. It was a good one. It was good.
• 5:50
  Speaker A: Okay, fine.
• 5:51
  Speaker B: Okay. So the history of fine dining. I'm gonna do history and a little bit of the French laundry.
• 5:54
  Speaker A: Or no, I mean, if you want to add in French laundry, go ahead. So I'll do history oh, okay.
• 5:58
  Speaker B: But you don't have anything.
• 5:59
  Speaker A: No. And then I'll do a little Michelin star, like how that started. And then we're gonna go. And it's all you.
• 6:04
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 6:04
  Speaker A: Okay. Beautiful. Okay. So fine dining. So it begins in France, right? Of course it does. Because everything begins in France. Everything has to be.
• 6:10
  Speaker B: That's a fun fact. I didn't know, Right? No, crap. That all makes more sense.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: Started in France.
• 6:15
  Speaker A: It starts in France.
• 6:16
  Speaker B: Fun fact. Didn't know that.
• 6:17
  Speaker A: France. Eric. I mean, no wonder he's got, like, a little chip on his shoulder, right? I guess.
• 6:22
  Speaker B: So France.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: France is kind of cool.
• 6:24
  Speaker B: It's true.
• 6:25
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. So before the late 1700s, if you wanted to, like, be fancy and, like, have a fancy meal, I guess you had to be royalty or, like, rich, Right. There wasn't fine dining. And even in the late 1700s, you didn't go out to eat anywhere. There wasn't restaurants to go do that. So you just had your mansion or wherever you lived or, I don't know, your palace. I don't know, Chateau, whatever, you know? Yeah. And your chef decided to, like, cook whatever he wanted to cook for you, and then you ate it, and you didn't even know what it was half the time because your chef was just in a mood. Right. That was the idea of fine dining. That's how it literally started.
• 6:56
  Speaker B: And whatever was in the garden or whatever was.
• 6:58
  Speaker A: That's it. Seasonal. Yes, you're absolutely right. And if you were poor and everything, you just ate, like, I don't know, rats or sawdust or whatever you did, like, during that time in France because you just lived in the streets and had to survive. So then the French Revolution happens. Of course. Let's go, Les Mis. Did you. Oh, of course. You watched Les Mis.
• 7:12
  Speaker B: I watched Les Mis. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good.
• 7:14
  Speaker A: You should go watch Les Mis together. Les Mis was one of my faves.
• 7:17
  Speaker B: It's amazing.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Okay, anyway, if you haven't watched Les Mis shout out to Les Mis fans everything, go watch it. So basically, all the rich people either died or, like, left all of a sudden during the French Revolution because they had to. And basically, these chefs were, like, out of a job immediately because, like, the Aristocrats. Yeah. Like, that class was, like. They disappeared. So what do they do? They open restaurants. That's how it started. Like, literally for everybody. Yeah, I know. I didn't even know restaurants were born from the French Revolution. So let's start with. That's the coolest fun fact ever.
• 7:46
  Speaker B: That's true. Okay, who would have thought?
• 7:48
  Speaker A: So now, fast forward 19th century, I don't know, 200 years. Enter some guy named Auguste Escoffier. Yeah, okay.
• 7:56
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 7:56
  Speaker A: I butcher my French. Who was, of course, a chef himself. He creates something called the brigade system, which organized, like, all the chaos of all these kitchens during the time, because they were, like, trying to figure out how to make it better and do great. So he invented the idea of stations where, like, each chef did a job, right? Like, you had a sous chef doing the sous chef, the main chef. Right. All that kind of stuff and who reported who and all that stuff. So that's when kitchen started turning into like, like ballet, like choreography. Before that, literally, for 200 years, it was just chefs running their restaurants out of France. And then they, like, worked around Europe and then started getting, you know, proliferating out from there. And then all of a sudden, this guy Auguste. Let's go. He was a badass and like, really organized the whole system. Then he was, like, about perfecting, like, timing and all that.
• 8:37
  Speaker B: So it all came together.
• 8:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's the 19th century already. Like 1889. Whatever. You get the idea. Okay, so then in the early 1900s, Michelin shows up originally with the idea to get people to drive more and, like, wear out their tires and accidentally invented the most stressful rating system in the world. Did you know that Michelin Tires was the one who named Michelin?
• 9:00
  Speaker B: Yes. I think we went over this in one of our podcasts.
• 9:02
  Speaker A: Did we?
• 9:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, you brought this up. It was like a fun fact.
• 9:04
  Speaker A: I already forgot this.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: That I feel like I relearned it all. But it was like, a way for them to put it on, like, their maps or their handouts of, like, go travel here. Use your time.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: I apologize. I should have remembered. This is exactly it. I had no idea. I was floored. When I was, like, reading all this. I'm like, oh, my God, I did not know that. Anyway, okay, so basically, yeah, you're totally right. So they have three stars, right? So one star means, like, worth a stop quotes worth a stop. Two stars is worth a detour. So it's like, oh, shit, get out of your way. Like, go over there and see it. Okay. Three stars is plan your vacation around Rearrange, Right? Rearrange the life. You got it. Plan your vacation. You nailed it. Okay, so then now fast forward to today and French Laundry, where you were just at. Uh huh. Has helped turn the vibe from the whole tradition and process all the way back to Auguste to, like, storytelling.
• 9:51
  Speaker B: Right.
• 9:52
  Speaker A: That's the whole concept. All right, I'll ask you a bunch of questions about the whole thing. I read a book recently by this guy named Will. I don't know his last name, Guardia, called Unreasonable Hospitality. He ended up running and then owning 11 Madison Park.
• 10:05
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah?
• 10:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. They were also named best restaurant in the world. I don't know whether it was 2016 or something like that. And anyway, it's like, fantastic because he's talking all about, like, how now it's about intentionality.
• 10:16
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker A: Like, before it was just about best food and all that kind of stuff. And then like in the early 1900s, Michelin star. Now it's all about service and intentionality and all these other pieces that we'll go into. Fascinating book. I highly recommend it. Totally worth it. Unreasonable Hospitality. Okay, that's kind of sort of all I got.
• 10:30
  Speaker B: Okay, so, like, so I'll pick up then in the 1900s.
• 10:33
  Speaker A: Okay. Oh, you got, like, some background?
• 10:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Let's go pre.
• 10:36
  Speaker A: I was already ready to go question. I was going to start barraging you with questions.
• 10:38
  Speaker B: I think he definitely needs to know a little bit maybe about French laundries. So Starting in the 1900s, there is this guy named Pierre. He owned the building and it was a saloon.
• 10:47
  Speaker A: Pierre.
• 10:48
  Speaker B: Yes, Eagle Saloon. But then in around, like 1907, they passed a prohibition measure. So this is like pre. Prohibition, like, actually went into effect. But it was starting.
• 10:58
  Speaker A: That shit. Yeah.
• 10:59
  Speaker B: And so he had to sell it. So he sold it to John and Madeleine Lahan and Pierre. Yes, Pierre sold to John and Man.
• 11:06
  Speaker A: Wow. There's so much behind this.
• 11:07
  Speaker B: But they didn't keep it as a lun, obviously.
• 11:10
  Speaker A: Did you learn all this while you were there?
• 11:11
  Speaker B: No.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 11:13
  Speaker B: So it was after the fact.
• 11:13
  Speaker A: Okay, got it.
• 11:14
  Speaker B: Because like, once you go and then you're like.
• 11:15
  Speaker A: I was gonna say, holy shit. Okay.
• 11:17
  Speaker B: If I knew this previously, I would have appreciated even just the building more.
• 11:21
  Speaker A: Right.
• 11:21
  Speaker B: Okay. So then they created it into becoming a steam laundry facility. And that was when it first became known as the French Laundry.
• 11:31
  Speaker A: I don't think I want to eat at a place called the French Laundry.
• 11:34
  Speaker B: Well, that's what I was curious. Right? Why French Laundry? So that's why.
• 11:38
  Speaker A: That's pretty cool.
• 11:38
  Speaker B: The building itself was actually a French style laundry business before.
• 11:43
  Speaker A: Can you still smell the dirty underwear?
• 11:44
  Speaker B: No. It's beautiful inside.
• 11:46
  Speaker A: No, when you were there, like, when you texted me and you were like, oh, my God, I'm at French Laundry, and you were totally flexing on me and being I Don't know. Greedy. Then I was being envious while you were being prideful. Okay. I was on my couch being gluttonous and sleepy. Slothful. Okay, can I start? Because I have so many questions.
• 12:03
  Speaker B: Two more things. So then it was sold again. It became another restaurant in like the 1970s that was called the French Laundry. And then eventually in 1994, Keller, who is the chef who, you know, has made the French Laundry become what it's known for, was very young at the time and he got some investors in.
• 12:21
  Speaker A: His 20s, I think.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, he was super young. His first, I think. Anyways, so that is how.
• 12:25
  Speaker A: And it only took 10 years, so 1994 till 2003. Nine years for him to go to number one in the world.
• 12:31
  Speaker B: Crazy.
• 12:31
  Speaker A: That's incredible.
• 12:32
  Speaker B: Crazy.
• 12:32
  Speaker A: You got to read Unreasonable hospitality.
• 12:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker A: Cuz same thing happened with 11 Madison Park. Okay, you ready?
• 12:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm ready. Go ahead.
• 12:37
  Speaker A: Are you sure? Yeah, I'm going to throw some shit in.
• 12:39
  Speaker B: Camera stuff? Yeah.
• 12:41
  Speaker A: Do you remember word of the day? I don't even remember word of the day.
• 12:44
  Speaker B: Pte.
• 12:45
  Speaker A: Pte. All right.
• 12:46
  Speaker B: Something like that.
• 12:47
  Speaker A: Don't forget, you got to throw that shit in there. Okay, so first of all, Michelin star restaurants, do you have any idea how many there are, like, in the world or like in the United States?
• 12:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, something crazy.
• 12:56
  Speaker A: I didn't look this up. I have no idea.
• 12:57
  Speaker B: So it's crazy because there's. How many restaurants in the world?
• 13:00
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, I don't know.
• 13:01
  Speaker B: Gazillion, right?
• 13:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't have no idea.
• 13:02
  Speaker B: Only 3500 Michelin stars restaurants in the world.
• 13:06
  Speaker A: In the world, yeah. Okay. And then just like the U.S. 1%.
• 13:10
  Speaker B: 250 in the United States.
• 13:11
  Speaker A: There's only 200.
• 13:12
  Speaker B: All of the U.S. really? Yeah.
• 13:14
  Speaker A: Holy shit.
• 13:15
  Speaker B: And that's them having only one star, right?
• 13:18
  Speaker A: U.S. 1, 2 or 3 stars? Yeah, any star. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So how many three stars?
• 13:21
  Speaker B: 150 for the world. Is that right?
• 13:24
  Speaker A: 150 in the world.
• 13:25
  Speaker B: So 250 in the U.S. okay, wait a second.
• 13:27
  Speaker A: Did they explain all this to you while you were up there? Or did you like. After you go, okay, all right, then. You care to learn?
• 13:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, you can.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: How many three stars in the United States?
• 13:35
  Speaker B: Oh, that one's like smaller. I think it's like 15 or something.
• 13:38
  Speaker A: 15? You went to one of 15 restaurants?
• 13:41
  Speaker B: Yeah. We should go on a tour. Just kidding.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: Holy shit.
• 13:44
  Speaker B: Burger, though. They're only like New York or Northern California. So that's kind of where the bread and Butter is.
• 13:50
  Speaker A: Wait, why only those two places? Like, I mean I get New York and California and everything. But like why not like Chicago, Texas, Florida? Like, I don't know.
• 13:55
  Speaker B: Those are great questions. I think a lot of it has to do with like inspection costs, right? They have to send these inspectors out.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 14:02
  Speaker B: So it's like kind of like congregated already.
• 14:05
  Speaker A: You go to where there's already kick ass restaurants, right? Yeah, yeah, that seems to make sense. Yeah, because like, I think, and honestly, like New York, I understand New York, California, I feel like they're like Northern California has like five of them or something. And then I think LA has like one or two and then New York has three or four. Like, whatever. Okay. It's wild. And then like the middle of the country has, I don't know, one, two or three all together. Right, that's. It's incredible. Okay, so awesome.
• 14:29
  Speaker B: So, and I just want to clarify one thing though. Is that the number that we were just kind of talking about, it's just like current status, right? Because restaurants can gain a star, they can lose a star all the time. So it's, it's an ever evolving number. So when I say mostly like New York and Northern California, that's currently.
• 14:44
  Speaker A: Ebbs and flows. Ebbs and flows. I'm totally with you. Okay. All right, here's my question. What are they actually like judging to make it like a one? Wait, what?
• 14:54
  Speaker B: Only the food?
• 14:54
  Speaker A: Really? They don't do anything else?
• 14:55
  Speaker B: No, it's just the food.
• 14:57
  Speaker A: Why not service or like ambiance or all that other shit?
• 15:00
  Speaker B: I mean you do, you get like other awards and symbols after that. Like if you're all green restaurant, you'll get like a green star. But it's really like to make it on the list. It's, it's just your food that is the star.
• 15:12
  Speaker A: The book. Unreasonable hospitality. Oh, by the way, I shout out to Andy Watanabe, everybody, one of my dear friends, she was one who referred to the book to me because she was like, oh my God, you totally have to read this book. And it was excellent. So thank you, Andy. Shout out. So do you own said book? Do I own. I do own said book.
• 15:27
  Speaker B: Oh, you should let me borrow.
• 15:28
  Speaker A: No, I audiobooked.
• 15:29
  Speaker B: Oh, you audiobooked it.
• 15:30
  Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, but it was excellent. But my point of all this was he talks about because he was crazy about service and in fact he ended up with the three stars and then you know, the quote unquote coveted four star like from the New York Times, like which is separate and everything. I get it. But, yeah, he got a bunch of service awards. I just realized that. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like. It wasn't because of the service.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: I mean, because let me tell you, even that service was impeccable, so.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: All right, here we go. Now we're going to get serious here. Enough of this background. Okay, so how do you even get a reservation? I don't even know how you start this process, because I go online. I don't even know how to get it.
• 16:01
  Speaker B: So they open a month in advance.
• 16:03
  Speaker A: One month.
• 16:03
  Speaker B: One month.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 16:04
  Speaker B: So you just go on the. Whatever date that you're.
• 16:08
  Speaker A: You didn't know somebody?
• 16:09
  Speaker B: I mean, I do know somebody, so.
• 16:10
  Speaker A: No, but I mean, like, you just went online.
• 16:12
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like a normal person. Yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: It's not like a lottery or something?
• 16:16
  Speaker B: No, you just got to be on when it opens for the month, and then.
• 16:19
  Speaker A: Oh, shit. Really?
• 16:20
  Speaker B: They got like, the first. Like, you can go, and it'll tell you on their website, and then, like.
• 16:23
  Speaker A: It sells out really fast. You just got to be on there and tell the interest. So, like, anybody can go?
• 16:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, anybody.
• 16:28
  Speaker A: Oh, I thought this was, like, a lot harder than that.
• 16:30
  Speaker B: We didn't know somebody else who. When we went up there.
• 16:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. You said you went with a chef friend of yours or whatever, so obviously you knew somebody, but. But you still did this online. Awesome. Okay. What did you pack? What'd you wear? What did, like, I need to know the vibe. What were you cozy or did you have to dress up or what was going on here?
• 16:43
  Speaker B: It's like smart casual. Smart business casual.
• 16:45
  Speaker A: You have to look that shit up. Like you look on the Internet and it tells you. Or no, you just knew to do this.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: No. Like, when you look, it tells you what your attire is. So when you. There's some research you have to do. Right. Whenever you're going to a new place that you don't know, especially if it's like, fine dining or an experience, you should always figure out how to dress appropriately. Right. Look awareness. And so, yeah, we went in with, you know, I think trout, more collared.
• 17:07
  Speaker A: Okay. But no tie. No suit for a guy.
• 17:09
  Speaker B: No suit. Yeah. Not. Not formal.
• 17:11
  Speaker A: All right, so not.
• 17:11
  Speaker B: Okay, but, like, smart. Right? Like, you want to look nice.
• 17:14
  Speaker A: Okay. But I mean, should you go with, like, the vibe? Should I dress, like, French or something? Because it's a French restaurant. No. No. Okay. All right, fine. Okay.
• 17:21
  Speaker B: Yeah. No cosplay at this one.
• 17:22
  Speaker A: Okay. Talk to me about how hungry I have to be, because I've always heard like, oh, my God, go in starving because it's so good. Like, don't eat anything the whole weekend. Is that, like, totally true?
• 17:30
  Speaker B: Well, maybe not the whole weekend, but, like, go in hungry for sure. Even though as you get in your plates, everything is, like, this ish. Big.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, really?
• 17:38
  Speaker B: Right. It's. It's tiny. But you have, what, 14ish courses? And so what, you just. 14 courses and you eat, and it just keeps coming in. It's all decadent and heavy.
• 17:46
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 17:47
  Speaker B: Very robust in flavor.
• 17:49
  Speaker A: My add is kicking in 14 courses. Does that mean there's 14 different wines that pair with it or. Not necessarily.
• 17:54
  Speaker B: So we did not do the wine tasting.
• 17:56
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 17:56
  Speaker B: And we very strategically did not do that because some of the dishes are very delicate. And though people always say, oh, the wine will enhance what you're eating.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 18:07
  Speaker B: One, we want to enjoy the experience without any sort of other aspect.
• 18:11
  Speaker A: Without blurring it.
• 18:12
  Speaker B: Yeah. And two, just how much are you gonna drink? So maybe like, round two, when we try it again, we might do the wines to experience that, but we did not. We went in just, like, fully and only for the food.
• 18:23
  Speaker A: So wait a second. So is there a wine with every course or. Not necessarily.
• 18:28
  Speaker B: No, not necessarily. So you. They have a sommelier, and if you decide that you want to have wine pairings as you're eating, then they will either pick a bottle for you to choose from that will accompany all of it, or that you can have with different courses at different periods during the meal. But it's not like this course gets this wine specifically.
• 18:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, okay.
• 18:50
  Speaker B: And it's also by budget, so you can say, oh, I want. You know, I only want to spend, like, 250. Look at that.
• 18:55
  Speaker A: They care about budget. That's so nice.
• 18:56
  Speaker B: Well, but it's because, like, some of their cellar bottles are, like, 50K.
• 18:59
  Speaker A: I understand completely. And that would scare the shit out. Okay. All right, so you said like, 14 courses or something?
• 19:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, so I did. Hold on. Let me clarify that just a little bit. So it's actually nine courses, but we made it 14 because of the dessert section, because we were like, this should be its own course. And this should be its own course.
• 19:16
  Speaker A: You had five desserts, so.
• 19:17
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 19:18
  Speaker A: Oh, your gluttonous.
• 19:19
  Speaker B: Oh, that's good, too.
• 19:19
  Speaker A: Wow. Okay. Look at that. Look at the callback to that episode. Okay. Were any of the desserts piquant, by the way? Okay. Wow.
• 19:26
  Speaker B: Look. Spicy. No, nothing but spicy.
• 19:28
  Speaker A: Can I ask my question now, please? Okay, so nine courses. So you said nine courses. How long is this experience supposed to take?
• 19:34
  Speaker B: Two and a half hours.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Holy Jesus. Criminy.
• 19:38
  Speaker B: Okay, but it doesn't feel that long.
• 19:39
  Speaker A: Well, for you, it doesn't feel that.
• 19:40
  Speaker B: Long, but it goes for me.
• 19:41
  Speaker A: I'm impatient. Motherfuck.
• 19:42
  Speaker B: No, but it's paced out perfectly.
• 19:45
  Speaker A: Okay, fine. What is the one thing that you think people get wrong before they even walk in?
• 19:50
  Speaker B: I think probably that when people are walking into the restaurant, I think they expect to be wowed or, I don't know, impressed the minute that they walk in.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: So really, you don't get impressed right away when you walk in?
• 20:04
  Speaker B: I mean, it's a nice restaurant. It is definitely. Like, you walk in, you're like, oh, this is a little bit opulent. Like, it's, you know, that should have.
• 20:10
  Speaker A: Been a word of the day. Opulent. I like that. So. So wait, you're saying, like, then it's sort of, like, built over time.
• 20:15
  Speaker B: It definitely. You need to.
• 20:16
  Speaker A: You're not walking in with fireworks.
• 20:18
  Speaker B: All of the fine details.
• 20:19
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. This is.
• 20:20
  Speaker B: And the attention to detail.
• 20:21
  Speaker A: This is sort of sophisticated AF right now. I love this.
• 20:23
  Speaker B: I mean, it's.
• 20:24
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, this is so excellent. Okay, I'm shifting. I'm going to ask about specifically sitting at the table. Are you ready for this? Okay, so first question, how does service work? Like, is it like I go into a regular restaurant, like, wherever I am here in Orange county, and a server comes up or something like that and just takes your order or, like. Like give me, like, the whole idea of service?
• 20:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. So you do have one head server, and then from there, you have all of your plates are coming out from different servers who each have obviously memorized the dish, exactly how it's made, what it's called.
• 20:52
  Speaker A: Do they have a menu, or did you like menu? Okay.
• 20:55
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 20:55
  Speaker A: Because I heard some places don't even have menu.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: So you either get the vegan option, set menu, vegan option, or the meat option. And from there you can supplement, which just means you can upgrade your, you know, dish to something else. Like, one of the dishes had a white truffle on it, and it was a $250 up charge. Yes. Supplemental charge. Yes.
• 21:15
  Speaker A: Holy Jesus.
• 21:16
  Speaker B: So, I mean, you have these options to then carry your meal to your food preference a little bit.
• 21:24
  Speaker A: Are they more attentive? Like, is it, like, is it that.
• 21:27
  Speaker B: Much different than when my water glass was never empty?
• 21:29
  Speaker A: Okay. This is one of those places where, like, they clear your silverware, like, every time, every meal. Yeah. And then, like, clean out the. Okay.
• 21:36
  Speaker B: And you get your breadcrumb.
• 21:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Speaker B: Scraper.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. And is that. Is that obnoxious? Like, do you find that.
• 21:41
  Speaker B: I mean, it's unsettling for somebody who, like, you don't have that right. You have somebody who is serving you this whole meal.
• 21:48
  Speaker A: Does it disrupt your conversation because they're in your face or not even close or super quiet about the whole.
• 21:53
  Speaker B: Very quiet, really. She's like a come in and swoop soup.
• 21:56
  Speaker A: So was there ever a time where you needed something where they didn't quick, like. Or they write on it no matter what? Like, someone was watching you from, like, the corner of the room.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: And they absolutely do watch. Because the minute I stood up, there was somebody who walked right over and was like, can I help you, ma'? Am? And I was like, oh, I just need to go to the restroom. Like, okay, let me escort you.
• 22:12
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. That was going to be one of my questions.
• 22:13
  Speaker B: Me up to the bathroom, told me not to trip on the step. And, you know, they escort you to the bathroom and they come back down.
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Was there somebody in the bathroom?
• 22:20
  Speaker B: And then your napkin. No. And then your napkin, like, they take it away.
• 22:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. You need to get a new one. Right? You get a new one.
• 22:26
  Speaker B: You don't even need to fold it.
• 22:27
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Speaker B: It's just usually when you go to a restaurant, they'll fold it or they'll make it nice for you.
• 22:30
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 22:31
  Speaker B: No, no.
• 22:31
  Speaker A: Some restaurants. Okay, well, that's. Okay. That's French laundry. But my bathroom question was really like, is it not appropriate to get up to go to the restroom in two and a half hours because you don't want to miss something? Or is it like. No, it's totally chill. Relax. Like, you can go to the restroom and not miss something.
• 22:45
  Speaker B: Yeah, you can.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Okay. Because that was my real question.
• 22:46
  Speaker B: No, I need to hold it. Like the theater.
• 22:48
  Speaker A: Okay. Right, right. Well, that was. No, seriously, that was one.
• 22:50
  Speaker B: It is an experience, but not that intense.
• 22:52
  Speaker A: Not that intense. Okay, got it. Okay, so, like, give me the. What surprised you the most? Like, what course is the. Is it like the main dish is supposed to be the best and it's like, unbelievable and. Or is it like. No, any of the courses can surprise you at any time, depending on your palate. Or are they building you up for some big, like. Like fireworks? Like, what do they call that thing at the end? The. The. The finale? So is the whole idea of build up and then they wow you with the food or is it like. No, any specific food could wow you at any specific time?
• 23:16
  Speaker B: I Think every course wowed you for a different reason.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: Really?
• 23:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: Holy crap.
• 23:20
  Speaker B: So. And you have to remember each plate is about the artistry of the dish.
• 23:25
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker B: So let me take a step back. So when we talked about the service that you received, like, very coordinated. Everything flows like a well oiled machine. Before we went in to be seated, there's like a little restroom off to the side where the kitchen is. And the kitchen is wall of windows. So you can see in to the kitchen and what they're doing. Each chef was preparing a dish.
• 23:48
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 23:49
  Speaker B: And it's not like there was stuff everywhere and people were chopping. Everything's already pre prepped. All in their little prep dishes.
• 23:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. Because they do that stuff in the back where you can't see.
• 23:56
  Speaker B: So everything's just ready to be assembled.
• 23:58
  Speaker A: Bear, did you do.
• 23:59
  Speaker B: Yes, it's very much like the bear, but not as chaotic.
• 24:01
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 24:01
  Speaker B: But the cleanliness and the precision is really truly what was happening.
• 24:07
  Speaker A: Wow you right away. Like, that's my point. That's the wow. Like, really? That didn't wow the like, I.
• 24:11
  Speaker B: Well, I don't think people find that as a wow. Right. Like, when people looked at like, oh, I would go bonkers clean or whatever. But I think when you first stepped in.
• 24:18
  Speaker A: I gotta go.
• 24:19
  Speaker B: You asked my first name. Like, I walked in and there was a guy there. He's like, hello, your name? Reservation. Okay. Please wait right here. We'll help you in a minute. They did give you champagne when you entered, so I mean, yes, there are some. Wow.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: Did you know your name when you showed up or you at the end? No.
• 24:29
  Speaker B: You had sba.
• 24:30
  Speaker A: Some places try to do that.
• 24:31
  Speaker B: That's true. But it's. So is there a wow factor? Yes. I just don't think it's the same wow factor that everyone maybe expects for the price tag. So you have to, again, appreciate the details. And so when it comes to your food and the plating of your food, it's artistry on a plate. And so when you look at it, you're like, huh, interesting. This is gonna taste good when you see it.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 24:51
  Speaker B: And it's just flavor explosion.
• 24:53
  Speaker A: No, I can't imagine that. Right. Cause I don't even know how to sections.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: And then when you craft your bite, we take a little bit of each of the components, and then it's a whole different. I was gonna say a whole different sensation in your mouth. And that sounded highly inappropriate, so I didn't say. Right.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: I was gonna. Well, that's perfect. My next question was did you orgy, like, anywhere in those two and a half hours? You're like, trent, hold on a second. Oh, I'm almost done. Okay, sorry. Okay, what happens? Oh, I love this. I love where you go. You, like, read my mind. What happens if you don't like it, though? Like, what if there's a piece? Like, was there something you were like, oh, my God, I gotta get this out of my mouth right now. It's disgusting.
• 25:26
  Speaker B: I don't think anybody at our table had that moment.
• 25:29
  Speaker A: Really?
• 25:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: Is there. Is there an appropriate way to behave if you do not, like, do you have to stomach it?
• 25:34
  Speaker B: Like, I mean, they would say you don't.
• 25:36
  Speaker A: Obviously, you don't spit it out. I understand that. But, like, you just take your curated bite, and then you're just like, that's not fair.
• 25:41
  Speaker B: You sample each little right bit of it.
• 25:44
  Speaker A: And then.
• 25:44
  Speaker B: My point is, there's something that you don't like. Something, and then don't eat that part.
• 25:47
  Speaker A: Okay. And that's okay. It can go back, like.
• 25:48
  Speaker B: Sure, Just leave it on the plate.
• 25:49
  Speaker A: And then you don't look, like, lame doing that or uncultured.
• 25:51
  Speaker B: No.
• 25:52
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. I mean, I gotta go do this. I want to know.
• 25:55
  Speaker B: I would doubt that the service would point out the fact that you missed something on your plate.
• 25:59
  Speaker A: Got it. Okay. But you. You liked everything. Like, everything I did.
• 26:02
  Speaker B: Everything was delicious, and everything was shockingly delicious and different. Not two dishes were the same.
• 26:08
  Speaker A: Okay, give me anything else about the food I need to know, because I'm going to shift from, like, the food in the table experience to, like, your whole mindset that you were starting to talk about with, like, when you go. And be prepared for. So. So give me anything else I missed about food, wine, drink, anything that people need to know.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: Hmm. So I think the one thing about food, when you're going in, go in with an open mind. There may be things that you haven't tasted. They do use a lot of their garden that they have, which is a few acres. And so you have to go in thinking, like, oh, that's a. You know, I've never heard of that vegetable. Or, oh, I don't know what that is. Just try it. You might be pleasantly surprised. And nothing on any of the plates was a food bully. Everything pairs so well together.
• 26:52
  Speaker A: I can imagine.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: Oh, I don't know if I like that. Then don't think about it. Just try it.
• 26:56
  Speaker A: Do they. Is it a calorie thing? Like, are they crazy about calories? It doesn't even matter at all. Or is there like. No, no, no. They're pretty careful and they, they really try to balance calories against taste or, or every restaurant's different. I mean, I don't know.
• 27:08
  Speaker B: I don't think that it's about calorie count. It's definitely going to be about the taste and the balance. It's like perfectly like. You have that fat with your acid with that salt. Like, it.
• 27:18
  Speaker A: Shit, I don't know.
• 27:19
  Speaker B: Anything. Balance.
• 27:20
  Speaker A: I got, I got. You got to take me. I got to learn this. This is insane.
• 27:22
  Speaker B: Okay. No, we should go to Love Madison.
• 27:24
  Speaker A: Let's, let's. Oh, my God. That would be better. Let's go because then I can meet Will. Okay. All right. Culture, mindset, the whole thing. Okay, so why is this whole idea, like you said, like a movie theater, fine dining. Why do they say fine dining is like movie theater or like a theater? Like, what does that mean?
• 27:38
  Speaker B: Experience? So you're not just paying for the food, which was exceptional, but it's the experience of when you walk in, it is a well oiled machine that's kind of like a show, right. You're going through this progression that you have the service le leading you through. So it's replacing your utensils. Right. Every course it's getting a new napkin. It's your water cup never being empty. It's seeing and experiencing. It's performative in a way. The service that's happening around you for you, which is very weird to have, like, people waiting on you.
• 28:11
  Speaker A: Right. Which I would find incredibly uncomfortable.
• 28:14
  Speaker B: It was very Bridgerton.
• 28:15
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 28:15
  Speaker B: Right, okay.
• 28:16
  Speaker A: But I guess that's the whole point. We said we gotta go at least once or twice or at least. So maybe this isn't a Peter thing once a month.
• 28:22
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 28:22
  Speaker A: This is like a Peter thing once or twice in his life kind of thing.
• 28:25
  Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
• 28:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So. So the whole idea of people saying it's not about the food means. Yeah. You're not going to the restaurant to eat. You're going to the restaurant for the experience. It is the night out. It is the whole experience, the whole thing.
• 28:36
  Speaker B: Right. Because like, could I find.
• 28:37
  Speaker A: It's like if you're going to a comedy show, you're going to the comedy show not to have the food. And I'm a bad example. But my point is you're going to the French Laundry to experience the French, not the food.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: Right. And that's. I think the biggest thing is that, you know, could you find better food somewhere else? Yeah, arguably.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Speaker B: Right. Depends on they would say, well, it depends on your palate. Depends on what you're looking for.
• 28:56
  Speaker A: Depends on who doesn't want a slice of pepperoni pizza. Right.
• 28:58
  Speaker B: Well. Right. And so not everyone is gonna be like, that was the best meal of my life. I love seeing the guy that we went. It was not the best meal of his life. He's had a Michelin star chef cook for him and 11 people. Right? So, like. Right. So of course there's like, always a different level or don't stop flexing on me. No, I wasn't. It wasn't even me. I thought it was the best meal of my life. Right. But it's the experience that ties in with the food, that gives you the whole package.
• 29:22
  Speaker A: So. So is this for anybody? Like, anybody can go. Like, everybody should go, or is this, like, no, no, no. Like, only certain people should go.
• 29:29
  Speaker B: I think anybody. I think anybody should go.
• 29:31
  Speaker A: Anybody should.
• 29:32
  Speaker B: But you have to be willing to go with the self awareness that you do have to fit a role. Right. You have to be respectful. You have to.
• 29:42
  Speaker A: Oh, I see what you're saying. Right.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: You can't be like, I'm gonna be a bull in a china shop and just accept me as I am. Like, that's not why you're going.
• 29:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:50
  Speaker B: You're going for the experience you're going for.
• 29:54
  Speaker A: So if you already know that about yourself, then sort of that's not for you. But if you're like, hey, I want. I want to get out of my box, then.
• 30:01
  Speaker B: Okay, I want to try this.
• 30:02
  Speaker A: That makes sense. Okay, so I'm not going to ask you how much it cost, but I do want to know if it was actually worth it.
• 30:07
  Speaker B: Like, it is worth it to go once.
• 30:09
  Speaker A: Okay. So if you. So if you think of how much you spent versus the experience, you would say, I would do it. Like, not. Not like, I would do it all the time, but like, yes, I'm okay.
• 30:18
  Speaker B: That was it once.
• 30:18
  Speaker A: Okay. That was value.
• 30:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker A: I like it.
• 30:20
  Speaker B: And would everyone have that same, like, sentiment? Probably not.
• 30:23
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 30:23
  Speaker B: But I do think it's worth it.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: Would you fly, like, would you go to eleven Madison park, like, into New York? Would you fly? And then, like, if you add up that. Because that. That could be a $3,000 trip.
• 30:32
  Speaker B: I haven't been to London just.
• 30:34
  Speaker A: Just to get there. And then the restaurant experience and then home, you know, because.
• 30:37
  Speaker B: And I think it's when you're going, though, like, that is a standalone from the rest of it. Right? Like, if I'm going to New York, Right.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: Oh, you're gonna do other things and then do that.
• 30:45
  Speaker B: You would have to do.
• 30:46
  Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense.
• 30:47
  Speaker B: Like, I don't think anything is worth just flying there and then going home. You have to experience Michelin wherever it is.
• 30:52
  Speaker A: Michelin would say otherwise.
• 30:53
  Speaker B: They would, but. But then experience the city that it's in.
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 30:57
  Speaker B: The culture.
• 30:57
  Speaker A: I'm with.
• 30:57
  Speaker B: You take the next step.
• 30:59
  Speaker A: Right. Or then run a marathon the next day or then. Right. Do that. Okay. So what do people worry about that they just shouldn't worry about? Like, just absolutely does not matter what.
• 31:10
  Speaker B: Fork to use, because there is only one.
• 31:13
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. We did an episode on how to set a table, like, really early on, and we were talking about the different forks.
• 31:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know.
• 31:20
  Speaker A: Well, because they just take them away every day. That's funny, though. So you really don't have to know all that stuff. I like that. That might get some people over the hump to just be like it. I'll go. I like that. That was a good one.
• 31:34
  Speaker B: And everyone's not super judgy. Like, that's the other thing. It wasn't, like, so pretentious. Oh, that. The staff was like that. No, they were very welcoming, friendly, seemingly normal.
• 31:44
  Speaker A: You're getting me excited. Okay, then let me ask the opposite question. What should people worry about that they don't worry about being impatient. Oh, so me.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because I think we're so used to eating at our own pace and doing things our own way. But again, this is an experience.
• 31:59
  Speaker A: I have 45 minutes and I'm with the bill. I'm doing this.
• 32:01
  Speaker B: I'm making the sign along for the ride. It's an experience. You just go with the flow.
• 32:06
  Speaker A: So would I double dose my ADD medicine?
• 32:08
  Speaker B: Probably.
• 32:09
  Speaker A: Interesting. Or overdose, more like. Okay, okay. All right, last question. All right. What is one rule everybody has to live by when they go? Live by? I don't know. Like, everybody should remember or everybody should live by or whatever.
• 32:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, they're. So when you go. They're smaller rooms for more intimate settings. So in our room, there was maybe only six tables. So you need.
• 32:31
  Speaker A: How many people does it fit? I don't even know.
• 32:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's. I mean, it's not very much. It has to be under 100 for sure. But the neat thing about it is that they have, like, kind of separate rooms. So, like, the main dining room there is. Which is in the historic building, and then there's like, a new boardroom.
• 32:47
  Speaker A: Do you have to reserve a room or. No, not necessarily. They just. Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, if you want to do, like, any sort of, like, private experience.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 32:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But that also some of them you can just do online as well. Another site. Another great way to get in is, like, if you didn't get in on that first, like, little wave when they first is watching them for people to cancel. Because people do cancel. Things come up like.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker B: So you can check and be like, oh, this day.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: Right. Because you have all those apps that do all that because you're like, young and hip and everything.
• 33:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. You can buy out the whole restaurant, etc, etc. But because they are more intimate settings, you definitely, like, need to remember you are not being loud, you're not being obnoxious. This is not about you. You were going for an experience.
• 33:25
  Speaker A: I really feel like you're really. You are really challenging me. I feel like this episode was meant for.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: Well, and I think people will say.
• 33:31
  Speaker A: That that's an interrupted Peter.
• 33:33
  Speaker B: And people would say that was the pretentious part. Right.
• 33:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:35
  Speaker B: Is that. Oh, no, it's hoity toity. It's this or that. If you go in with the mindset that I'm here for the experience, you will thoroughly enjoy it more. And don't be self conscious about, oh, I'm sticking out or I'm this. Just go with the flow.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: Go with the flow. All right. So highly recommended.
• 33:51
  Speaker B: I. Yeah, I think you should highly recommend it.
• 33:53
  Speaker A: Okay. I love it. All right, so anything else you want to share before, like, I zoom out and sort of do the thing that I love that you do, which is sort of sum up key points of said episode.
• 34:02
  Speaker B: They do let you take home little to go boxes and give you little treats to go home with. Like, so you don't have to eat everything, is my point.
• 34:08
  Speaker A: Okay, but they're to go like the food you didn't eat or like, they give you like a gift to leave with.
• 34:13
  Speaker B: They give you a little token of something.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 34:15
  Speaker B: And. But like, the desserts, we couldn't finish any of it. And then.
• 34:18
  Speaker A: Well, because you had five. Thank you very much.
• 34:20
  Speaker B: They walked around with a truffle box with their chocolatier that makes them. And I was like, I cannot eat this.
• 34:24
  Speaker A: When you say truffle, I can't. Like, you didn't watch the Goonies because I know you don't remember any movies, but I think of the truffle shuffle. I can't help myself. Right. When he does a little thing with his tummy.
• 34:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't. I don't mean that at all.
• 34:37
  Speaker A: Okay, sorry. All right, I get it. Okay. All right, so zooming out. I'm gonna go.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: Go.
• 34:41
  Speaker A: Okay. So basically you're saying you got to go for experience. Don't go for the food, even though the food's going to be excellent. Like, and once you can understand the whole idea of, like, being patient and. And that whole piece, all the little details sort of go to the wayside, it's not so intimidating, and everything starts feeling a little bit better and a little bit more comfortable. So I think the big takeaway is, like, this is an experience. Breathe and you will enjoy.
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Enjoy. Yeah.
• 35:04
  Speaker A: Otherwise, don't fucking.
• 35:06
  Speaker B: Don't get the reservation.
• 35:07
  Speaker A: Right. Okay, fine. Fun facts. Can I go? Fun facts.
• 35:10
  Speaker B: Yes, please do.
• 35:10
  Speaker A: Because I prepped.
• 35:11
  Speaker B: I'm ready some for fine dining.
• 35:14
  Speaker A: Yes, I did. Right. Like, look at that.
• 35:15
  Speaker B: Okay, so, I mean, you already got me with two earlier.
• 35:17
  Speaker A: Now I want. Right. I want to know if you know these. I mean, maybe some of you do, maybe, because these are totally random. These aren't just French laundry ones. Okay. All right. So number one, in early fine dining, menus were often written after the meal, not before it, because guests weren't choosing the dishes as much as placing trust in the kitchen, which some restaurants I heard still do today. So the menu was like a receipt for a gift or a keepsake.
• 35:39
  Speaker B: We got one.
• 35:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you knew what you ate?
• 35:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 35:41
  Speaker A: Oh, so they still do that?
• 35:43
  Speaker B: Well, we got to say before, and then we got it as a gift wonderfully presented to take home.
• 35:47
  Speaker A: Oh, that's excellent.
• 35:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, but I didn't know that they didn't.
• 35:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's how they.
• 35:51
  Speaker B: That's how it starts back in the day. You wouldn't write it.
• 35:53
  Speaker A: Like, you wouldn't print, laminate, all that crap. You're absolutely right. Okay, so number two, the chef's table. You know the chef's table thing? Right. Okay. So that's like the front row seat to the kitchen, everybody. So it actually started as a way to control critics and difficult guests. Right. Not, like, put them in front of that. Nowadays. It's like, if you get that, it's like, oh, my God. Right? You're awesome. The Kardashians, right? Like, it's serious shit. Yeah. Sitting them close to the chef would mean that they could, like, watch the reactions and, like, manage food pacing and everything. So they would, like, have the best chance of winning the critic over. Yeah. All right. Who knew?
• 36:23
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 36:23
  Speaker A: Number three, fine dining rooms are engineered to feel quiet without being silent through careful use of fabric, acoustics, and sound absorption. Was that true?
• 36:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:33
  Speaker A: As far as you know, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker B: Because you're not like in. You know how sometimes you go to a restaurant, it's like clang, clang, clang, and everything echoes and is loud.
• 36:39
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 36:40
  Speaker B: No.
• 36:40
  Speaker A: So what was it? Grand Ole Opry. Remember how like the, the Ryman Auditorium, they were saying how like, amazing that was it like NASA. People like. Yeah.
• 36:48
  Speaker B: I don't know if NASA, like designed all this stuff.
• 36:51
  Speaker A: Right.
• 36:52
  Speaker B: But yeah, the fact that they pay attention that again, is that fine detail.
• 36:56
  Speaker A: So it doesn't feel overcrowded.
• 36:58
  Speaker B: Right. And you wouldn't feel like it's something you could overlook.
• 37:01
  Speaker A: Even all the subtle shit. Yeah, that's amazing. All right. Number four, Bread service is a tell. So I heard. So you tell me. Tell me if this is true or not. Like a tell, like a poker tell. Right. So they say it tips the kitchen's philosophy. They say it's usually the first sign of the restaurant's service and overall craftsmanship before anything really fancy or complicated arrives. So many chefs believe if the bread misses, the rest of the meal has to work twice as hard to recover. So was there anything about bread or bread service or anything that you remember?
• 37:29
  Speaker B: No bread.
• 37:29
  Speaker A: Oh, interesting. Okay, got it. Yeah.
• 37:31
  Speaker B: I mean, we did have a pastry.
• 37:33
  Speaker A: Like, but early or later?
• 37:35
  Speaker B: It was during the one, like through the courses.
• 37:37
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 37:38
  Speaker B: But it was from Bouchon, which is their bakery. It was phenomenal. I don't know, like, so many layers of buttery goodness. I mean, it's a French, you know.
• 37:48
  Speaker A: I would eat bread or French. Can you ask for extra? Are you allowed to ask for extra?
• 37:51
  Speaker B: No. And they don't even make it at the bakery. They make it just for French laundry.
• 37:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. No, I think this whole idea is like they're trying to tell you, like they're giving away sort of how they're going to service you based on like the first course. That's all. Okay. Number five. Portion sizes at Michelin star restaurants are intentionally small because the idea of being full is meant to build over time rather than hit you all at once. Right. The goal is slow, controlled satisfaction. I think that's what you were trying to tell me earlier. Yeah. Number six. A surprising number of famous fine dining dishes started as ad hoc or totally improvised because of shortages of ingredients or mistakes.
• 38:24
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker A: Potato chips were accidentally invented when a chef sliced potatoes extra thin out of frustration for a picky customer and inadvertently invented the most famous friggin thing on earth. How do you like that? Another one is Caesar salad. Yes. Apparently it was thrown together tableside with whatever was available in the kitchen during a rush and ended up becoming one of the most recognizable dishes in the world.
• 38:46
  Speaker B: No way.
• 38:47
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 38:47
  Speaker B: That's amazing.
• 38:48
  Speaker A: I looked up, like, 10 of those. I, like, picked, like, a few good ones. Yeah, there's a lot of things that just started accidentally.
• 38:53
  Speaker B: Happy accidents.
• 38:53
  Speaker A: I know, right? Okay. And finally, at the highest level, the goal of fine dining isn't amazement, as Amanda was sharing, it's care, which is why the best meals feel effortless rather than flashy. The goal of every Michelin star restaurant is not just to leave you impressed, but oddly, looked after, which, who are we kidding, is all we really want. Anyway, that's all I got.
• 39:16
  Speaker B: That was really good.
• 39:17
  Speaker A: Fun fact out.
• 39:17
  Speaker B: I mean, and going through your fun facts, I think French Laundry did it.
• 39:21
  Speaker A: Well, let's go. I gotta go. I'm headed up.
• 39:24
  Speaker B: Let's go.
• 39:25
  Speaker A: I gotta get online and get going.
• 39:27
  Speaker B: You want to wrap it all up for us?
• 39:28
  Speaker A: I'm wrapping.
• 39:29
  Speaker B: Okay, go.
• 39:30
  Speaker A: Let's go. Okay.
• 39:30
  Speaker B: Pretty bow.
• 39:31
  Speaker A: All right, so if this episode got you curious about fine dining and you want to join Amanda and I, we'll be heading up there. So come along with us. If you want to learn anything else, watch full service dining experiences on YouTube. Not like, highlight reels or anything like the long uncut POV dinner. The reason I'm saying this is because they explain exactly what Amanda's talking about. They show the pacing, the pauses, how much of the magic happens behind the scenes.
• 39:55
  Speaker B: Behind the scenes?
• 39:55
  Speaker A: Yes. So it's the fastest way to understand it and get comfortable with the idea of deciding you want to sign up for it in the first place. So just put it on in the background, sort of watch, and it'll take your temperature down from, like, 10 to, like, three, and you'll be like, okay, I think I can do this. Yeah. And then when you're ready, I guess, or feeling up to it, like, just book the damn reservation and go. Right. Simple as that. Give yourself time to slow down and just let the night unfold. And if you're Peter Balinsky, then, I don't know, take a little ADD medication. So there we go.
• 40:26
  Speaker B: What was that book? One more time for everyone.
• 40:28
  Speaker A: Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Garden.
• 40:31
  Speaker B: Yes, I'm gonna do that one.
• 40:33
  Speaker A: That's a great one. If you don't do either of those things, just remember these details to sound sort of sophisticated the next time fine dining comes up and you're hanging out with your friends, eating dinner, and you're talking all about it. Like, Amanda all right. Number one. Fine dining isn't about luxury hype or being wowed the second you walk in. Just like Amanda said, it's about intention, pacing, and the feeling of being thoughtfully taken care of over the course of the night. Number two, Michelin stars exist to judge what's on the plate, not in the room, the service or the vibe. Which is why the best restaurants treat hospitality as its own quiet art form. Service awards are given out totally separately. Number three, a long, unhurried meal isn't inefficiency or indulgence. Time is part of the experience and the impression builds slowly rather than arriving all at once. Number four, you don't need expertise or confidence to belong in a fine dining room. Curiosity, patience, and a willingness to surrender control is all you need to actually feel sophisticated. Sophisticated.
• 41:31
  Speaker B: And there you have it, dear listeners. Fine dining in all its quiet, intentional, and occasionally intimidating glory. Learning about it isn't really about food or luxury. It's about how humans have learned to slow down, pay attention, and turn a simple meal into a shared experience worth remembering. So if we did our job today, you're walking away a little more curious. And maybe the next time the topic comes up at the table, you'll be ready to casually explain. Explain what a Michelin star is. Tasting menus or why a three hour dinner isn't excessive. If this episode made you rethink how you show up for a meal, leave us a review and tell us. Was it the history, the behind the scenes rituals, or the realization that the magic doesn't rush that stuck with you? Until next time. Stay curious, stay present, and remember. Sometimes the most meaningful moments happen when you slow down, stop evaluating and let the night unfold.