Latest / Pod Therapy / #383: Newlywed Advice, Death Anxiety, Missed Therapy Appointment

Transcript

#383: Newlywed Advice, Death Anxiety, Missed Therapy Appointment · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Because they live, because they live with you.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and I don't know, I've never done it,
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: you know, like fire fires, don't let the video.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: You do an important job as well. You start the
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: fires for them to put out.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, about you.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I'm a job creator.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Goddamn it, this fireman will be out of a game.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Yeo. Servants, my tax dollars and my fucking fire fingers,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: they keep you in the work. You're welcome.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: From fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: This is pod Therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: You can submit your questions anonymously at pod therapist dot
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: net or email us at pod therapy guys at gmail
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: dot com.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: And now broadcasting from the chair. And that's Jim. That's
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: what I'm nick. It's time for some pod therapy.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's Mental Health Awareness Months. Exciting, man. There is so
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: much going on and we have been off to a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: huge start. Uh and in just in one week's time
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: with this new special event of this month where we
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: do a lot of fundraising, we do a lot of
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: awareness spreading, we do a lot more content. We have
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: been getting so much love from our Patreon community, which
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: we're going to be talking more about at the end
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: of the show, thanking new people who have signed up,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: tons of people increasing their membership, and just making sure
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: that we know we are appreciated and that this work
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: is supported. And so we have some really exciting announcements
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: there we are doing for Mental Health Awareness Month, some
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: really really fun stuff.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So you want to let Nick announce them?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Nick, why don't you tell everybody all
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: about it?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Everyone gets a puppy?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: There it is, there, it is.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Can you have bad mental health with a puppy?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: We have chartered with an underground network of puppy mills. Yes,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: they will be supplying lots of dogs. So no, we
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: are starting a new campaign. We are called no One's
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Getting Up, Nobod's getting Yeah, sorry fine print, no us you're.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Getting a puppy, in which case you're getting a puppy.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except for those of you who are getting a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: puppy that is not affiliated with us. So we are
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: launching our Mental Health Month campaign. We're calling it Pony
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Up for Mental Health. Let me tell you what it is. So,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: as many of you know, we have an intern, Emma,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: who's a therapist in Illinois. She's in a doctoral program
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: and she's pledged her undying support to our podcast to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: satisfy what is required for school and also because she
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: believes in these projects. Well, it turns out Emma has
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a horse, Tanka Truck. The pony who has already been
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: anointed as the official pod therapy pony has a banner
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and everything on the bar and it's really really cool. Well,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Emma has adopted a new horse. And this horse does
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: not have a name nameless yet, and this enters pony
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: up for mental health because we have talked Emma into
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: allowing our Patreon community to nominate and vote for names
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of the horse, and she has agreed that whatever is chosen,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: that's the fucking name of the horse. No strings attached,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: no line, no boundaries. She just wrote a blank fucking check.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I am supporting the show. People can name the horse.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Jimothy Hilller's on the table. It's on the table. So
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: here's how this works.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Poully Mustang would.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Be honestly a solid name. So in May, if you
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: sign up or are an existing producer or partner of
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the show, so at the their producer at their partner level,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: you get to submit nominations for this Horse. Everybody gets one.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Partners get pretty much as many as they want, probably five,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but keep sending in those nominations if
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you are a partner or a producer, and then what
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: we're gonna do is we're gonna gather those names. Now,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: hosts cannot submit names, but we can lobby.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: For next Jimothy, we can.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: We can absolutely throw our political support. Timothy Hitler's a
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: solid Jim Hitler.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: No.
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: I did not think about this perfect.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I did not think about this could be my problem.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I really just thought it was going to be this
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: horse is going.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: To make an America. You're an idiot. Do you remember
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I did that?
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: You're lucky.
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: We can't nominate.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: We're accepting nominations from all of our therap producers and
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: in the month of May, and at the end of
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: the month, we're going to put out a poll through
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: our Patreon. Everybody who is attached to our Patreon is
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: going to get to vote in the poll and it's
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: winner take all. So whatever name gets the most votes
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: at the end of the month, Uh, that's it. That's
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: the one. Emma's going to put that documentation. That is
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the legal name of the New Horn.
• 4:45
  Speaker 6: You said, we can vote for one that's already nominated, right.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: We can put our political support behind it, yes, but
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: if you're attached the Patreon, I guess we can take
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: out a Patreon in the hat.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I'll do that.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: So that's all only one part of what's going on
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: for the Pony Up for Mental Health campaign.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: We needed that job. The second big thing that we're
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: doing this month. So, as you all know, Emma goes
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: to her farm to find her ponies and she gives
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: them treats. And for a long time people have said, oh,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I wish that I could like sponsor treats for the ponies.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Emma has decided to also do that for us. So
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: now at patreon dot com slash Therapy slash store, we
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: now have an option where you can buy a dedication
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: treat for either of Emma's ponies. And so whenever you
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: check out at the store it's fifteen bucks. You can
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: tell Emma what you want her to say to the pony.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Whenever she dedicates the treat, you can pick the snack.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: So there's a list of the pony's favorite treats, including watermelon, licorice,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: and mushrooms and peeps. Apparently the ponies like that. Yep,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: she's listed all their favorite sex. It's also healthy things.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: If you want the pony to have apples, mushrooms or marshmallows,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: you know what, it's whatever she's got on hands. Okay,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know where she's going with this. The pony
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: is going to.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Be happy because some animals really like marshmallows, some of
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: them actually bears really do.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Alligators do too?
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: A clarifying question, yes, I god, I don't even want
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: to bring this up. But is this already in the
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: store or is this something that after recording today you're
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: gonna says.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It's all live. I already did everything, everything's programmed everything. Also,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the link is in the episode description, so if you
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: don't want to type in patreon dot com slash therapy
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: slash store, just go into your episode description. There's already
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: going to be a link. It'll be Yeah, that's because
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I uploaded it previously. Yep, So go into the episode
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: description you can find that, or just go to therapy.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It's right there too. You can scroll down. It's featured
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: as an item in the store, so check out, do
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: that as many times as you want, and then here's
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the fun part. When Emma goes to the farm, She's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: going to feed the horse, tell the horse, hey, this
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: treats from Whitney. She says, I love you from Las Vegas,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and then give the horse the treat that you ordered.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: She's gonna video that and then she's gonna post it
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: to our Instagram. So if you follow our instagram, yep,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: well yep, whatever you write the dedication, I'm pretty sure
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: she will read.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's like a Ron Burgundy thing.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So she's gonna be posting that to our instagram all
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: month long. So even if you do not want to
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: feed the pony, make sure you subscribe to our Instagram page.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: At pot therapy, guys, we're gonna be having tons of
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: pony videos where you're gonna see her ponies getting fed,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: getting dedications, getting their favorite snacks, and our audience is
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: gonna be behind that. And then you'll also get a
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: good look at the nameless pony so that you can
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: submit your name suggestions at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: But that's not all for Mental Health Month. We've got
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: some great new announcements about our Patreon. There it is.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: We've finally activated the annual membership.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I finally out.
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: Yay.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So now at patreon dot com slash therapy, you can
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: just sign up for a year.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: You can just do that now and they save money,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: right do you do?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Used to get ten percent off, So you just get
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: the whole year knocked out. You signed up for a year.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about like the stupid rebuild thing.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: It's done, easy pasy. The other thing that we unlocked,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: we have hundreds of people attached to our Patreon who
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: are free members. So they've gone all the way to
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the Patreon, but for whatever reason, they never attached money
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to it. They just said I would like to just
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: sign up for free. They don't get to access any
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: of the content, but they're just on standby and occasionally
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: we have a post. They have a membership, and occasionally
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: we post public things, big announcements for the show, stuff
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: like that, and when we do that, they do get
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: that to their email. They get to see it. But
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks, you know, just for one reason
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: or another, that isn't within their budget, even if though
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: we keep it as low as a dollar, of course,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: it's just not in everybody's budget to do some money
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: on that. So here's what we've done.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Some people run in a deficity, that's the deed.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: That's just how it is. So what we've done is
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: we've set it up so that if you are a
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: free member at patreon dot com slash therapy, or if
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: you decide to go ahead and join and become a
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: free member, it'll cost you nothing. You'll now get access
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: to the most recent five episodes of the show. You'll
• 9:13
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• 9:16
  Speaker 2: as soon as you sign up, or if you're already
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: sign up as a free member, go into the Patreon
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: right now you have access. It's going to show you
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: the last five episodes that they won't get it won't
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: keep on updated, it will keep going. No, they'll give
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: them the most recent five.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So you get those five and then you have to
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: go back to that free trial version.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, then you're going back to the main feed.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: That's correct.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: So you have that now if you want it. And
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: we've got one more thing that we can do this too.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: If you're out there and you would like to donate
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a gift membership to one of the folks on that
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: free membership side, somebody that can't afford it, you can
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: now do that. So now you can go and you
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: can donate a gift membership. It's set up at the Patreon.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: There's also a link in the episode description. Also there's
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: been some posts. If you're already a member of the Patreon,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you're going to see a post this last week that
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: tells you how to do this, and if you would
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: like to do that, go ahead and sign up. The
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: instructions are all in there for how to do it.
• 10:08
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• 10:10
  Speaker 2: free membership, all you got to do is email us.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Email us at pod Therapy guys at gmail. Let us know, Hey,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I'd love to go on the list when free memberships
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: become available. If somebody has a donated membership, i'd like
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to have one. And then when people donate memberships, we're
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: just going to pass those over to you. It's all
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: going to be broken through us. And so if you're
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: out there and you need a benefactor, we've got very
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: very generous folks that do a lot for the show.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: They would love an excuse to put some more money
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: in the hat and know that they're getting somebody a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: membership who otherwise couldn't have had. It's super cool. So
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: that's all available now. It's all at patreon dot com
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: slash therapy. The links are in the episode description. There's
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: been posts throughout this week, but if you just go
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: to patreon dot com slash therapy, you could see everything.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: But if you're out there and you need a donated membership,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: go ahead and email us. We're going to keep that
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: completely private. Nobody that donates a membership is going to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: know who got it. Nobody in the world's going to
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: know that you received a free membership. Whenever we announce
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: your name as a new member, you're going to be
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: announced like anybody else at whatever level the donated membership
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: was at. No caveats, no special distinctions, that's yours. You're
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: just a part of the community and you'll instantly be
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: a part of the discord and everything else, and you'll
• 11:16
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• 11:19
  Speaker 2: So super super.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Which now could be at least a year.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: It could be somebody could donate a year membership, but
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted to so really really fun stuff. Patreon dot
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: com slash therapy. Mental Health Month is off to an
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: awesome start. We've got our pony up for mental health campaign.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: You can name this Horsey, or you could just feed
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: its snacks if you just want to feed this fucking
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: norse snacks.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: And you can get him to give the horse a
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: message on Instagram.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: This is true.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: You can.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: You can also get the Ray sent this snack in
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: and Ray says that Jim Jobins says that January sixth
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: was an inside job.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: All of it. January anyway, an inside job. Nick. I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know this about everything, but it's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: all inside.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: It's always inside.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Side note, Laura and I were watching PBS like we
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: do January. We were watching n We're watching Nova and
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: something was they were interviewing a couple of scientists and
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: this They were interviewing this one guy, and he was
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: talking about his co author on this research study. And
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: his name was something to the effect I don't remember
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: the first name, but it was like something like Jeff Hitler.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Oh God, change that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: And I was like, I was like, no fucking way,
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: no one still has.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: That proud heritage.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: And they showed they showed uh, like the abstract or
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: whatever from the research and.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: That was his name.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And I was like, and then Nova just
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: kept Nova didn't acknowledge this at all.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: They just is the high ground.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: No, it's not you.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: You can't, you can't and then you go back to
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: it because I don't even remember.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing, I don't know it was.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: It was an amazing show, and I don't remember what
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: they research Right now, I have no idea anymore because
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: once they said that starting and I'm like, I've got questions.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: We need to go back.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Name is Hitler? You change it?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: You know, you have a working name at the very
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: least something easier, or.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Just at a doss in front of it. I think
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: that'll get away with it. Dos Hitler. That's fine because
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I just cram it together, Doss Shitler, right, that that works.
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: The Shitler, the Shitler.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Anything, any any possible tweaking is the right way to go.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: So but hey, doctor Handler used to be good.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Change, that's good. Change like Hitler.
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: Just a double tea like that it still say, because.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I just pluralize it, yeah.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Or just tell people it's killer and the tea is silent.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: It's a soft tea.
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the way.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: So anyway, when you're thinking about naming that pony, yeah.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeahs welcome democracy is going to settle that they're welcome,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: but they're there. Patreon dot com slash therapy named the
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Pony if you join as a producer or partner in
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: may or if you are an existing one, or you
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: could just feed the pony and just use the little
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: store button there. Feed the pony as many snacks this
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: month as you like.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: There will be.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Videos on a page. There's two ponies. They eat like horses,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: so feed them and know that you are sponsoring mental health.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Buy somebody a gift package, gift donated membership if you'd like,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: ask for one. Just Emails will take care of that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: for you. Or do a five episode free trial if
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: you've been listening to the show for a while, never
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: but money in the hat, or maybe it just wasn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: your jam, now's the time, jump in there and do
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: the free trial. Listen to five extended episodes. It's a
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: good time. You can hear about Jim's cooking adventures in
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: this episode where I accidentally started another fire but handled it,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: handled it really well, so check it out.
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: Was so fire.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Anyway, we've got some great questions for today's show, and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we're leading off the order with long term relationship advice
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: from alec our buddy Aleck Hey, Pod there are people
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: pard of the cue was getting low, so I thought
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: i'd jump in. A Few years ago I started listening
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: to this show. My marriage was suffering because of a
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: huge number of issues. I was very unhappy with my body,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: and I was struggling to get work done. I wrote
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: in for episodes two hundred anonymously and two hundred and
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: forty one not anonymously, regarding my marriage and subsequent divorce.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: The advice you guys gave was prescient and helpful, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I took it to heart. Since my divorce, I've moved
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: to Europe to continue my PhD research at CERN, met
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a bunch of amazing people through the pod therapy discord,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: gotten physically healthy, and am getting married in twenty eight
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: days at the time of this writer Oho, awesome, Yeah
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: that's right, I think.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, clearly they finally worked it out.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think I can overstate how much of an
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: impact on my mental health pod therapy has had. Were
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: it not for this show. The friends I've made is
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: a part of the pod therapy community, and the ability
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you've given me to dialogue with complex issues, I would
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: not be as good a person or partner as I
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: am today. Suffice it to say, I've come a long
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: way in no small amount thanks to pod therapy and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: this community now awesome. As I sit here only a
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: few weeks from my wedding, I thought i'd ask each
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of you for your advice. What tools in your relationship
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: toolboxes do you use to make long term relationships work?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: What do you value about your relationship that you think
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: makes it unique? Ps. At some point my wife and
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I will come to Vegas for a visit and I'd
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: love to sit in on a recording. Also, you're all
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: invited to the Elvis wedding that I want to surprise
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: her with.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, don't tell her love Alec already told me.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: Okay, So you want relationship advice, I got it. As
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: the current pod therapy record holder for a number of marriages.
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: You're very experienced, is that?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Iky?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Let me?
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Uh? I got this? All right?
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: All right, we'll back up. We're back up.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Uh, I don't know.
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: Can I just say really quickly though?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Okay? Nick is marriages as I am to cooking, no
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: on our.
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: So for our wedding in twenty fourteen, we did a
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: which McCall. It like a big canvas that people could sign,
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: and so it looks like a tree and on the
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: leaves people just right the way. But I have this
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: hanging in my office, not where clients can see, but
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: kind of off to the side, and every once in
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: a while, like go and read through the names, because
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: some people actually decided to put little advice quips in there,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: like three of them, and we did not have a
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: lot of people. It was maybe like seventy five people,
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: so not a ton. I swear there's like three times
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: people are like, have sex, make sure you have sex,
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: and I'm like, you have to have sex. You know what,
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: if it were that fucking easy, I don't think it'd
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: be fifty percent of worse rate or whatever it was.
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: I was just like kind of annoyed. So I like
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: this question because I've realized through being married like a
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: long time or just being with Peter longtime, you don't
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: have a clue until you're in it. Like looking back,
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh my god, no idea, like what it
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: took to get here. And it's hard to even put
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: into words sometimes because some million different little things. But anyway,
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: I just had to throw out there like all the
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: people like, oh sucks, all these old people. Make sure
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: you have sex, right, I'm like, don't go to bed angry.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like, don't go to bed angry. What tried advice?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's good advice. I don't think
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: it's advice that you can always follow. Sure, I think
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: it's impossible to just always like I think it's a
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: nice thing to strive for, right, but it's not.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It's not something that you've got.
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: A hard and fast like you're expected.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I think you actually do it if you don't plan
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: on sleeping.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's true. Yeah, Like, if you make the commitment,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: we're not going to go to bed.
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: Anger, you're not going to sleep.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Also, we're probably not going to sleep tonight. Yeah right, yeah,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I find there we go.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Although if I'm tired all the next day, I'm going
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: to still be angry.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Now I'm really angry.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I'm tired.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I'm tired and angry.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many problems and fights and
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: conflicts over twenty years have been solved by going to sleep.
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: That is a great point. I always like, go to
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: bed and talk about it, and.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: The next day I'm like, let's shut this downt remember
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: why I cared, you know, like I don't remember why
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I was so upset about this, Like I'm kind of
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: over it now or whatever. Or you just wake up,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: you go about your business, you have your coffee, everybody
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: goes to work, you get home that night, and then
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: somebody just says something nice and they're like, oh, I
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: was your day, and you're like, oh, okay, so I
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: guess we're not fighting. And then you're like, yeah, I
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: just don't. I don't give a shit anymore. I don't
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: want to. I don't care about this fight anymore. So yeah,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times actually going to bed
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: fixes the angle with fight.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Find to do that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: At some point I realized that you can just decide
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: to stop fighting.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you don't have to reach a resolution.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: No, that's you can just decide to be like, hey,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: let's can we be done with this.
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: Let's with this and figure it out another time.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: The ability one of the I think one of the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: most dangerous things that I'll see in relationships that I'll
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: be nervous about and I'll think, oh boy, we got
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: to deal with this is going to be apocalypse, right,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: get into that ship. No, that's and that's fine. I
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: like that theory, but like people that take offense, like
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: if they're really easily poked and they're like what did
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: you mean by that? Oh yeah, and like and it's
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: like gosh, and even when somebody tries to solve something,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: they'll make three more errors on the way there, and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: it takes perfection right before you can really resolve the issue.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And this kind of floats back to what you were
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: just saying, Jacob, Like that ability for partners to just
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: look at it and say, I'm not prepared to die
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: on this hill. As we've said a million times, I'd
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: rather be happy than right, right, And I do love
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: you and I want to maximize the minutes I enjoy
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: with you, and I'm just prepared to drop this thing
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and not necessarily feel like i've But like when people
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: feel wronged and there's been like an injustice or a
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: disrespect or some symbolic problem, and that can get really
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: dangerous in this day and age, because I think a
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: lot of people get on like their their social media's
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: and they kind of get into their own hate spiral pit.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And men and women both do this, right, Like dudes
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: get red pilled and like women go into their man
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: hate and fury and then like they come back and
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: they're like, you know what, you put your fucking socks
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: next to the laundry basket, and that means that you're
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a chauvinist and you don't fucking respect me. And I'm
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: not going to be your handsmaid's tales like Jesus Christ, Like.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that I am a chauvinist, that I
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: don't respect you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: My socks don't have anything to do with it.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I just miss that hamper. Yes, I dare you.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: You're just wrong on this one. Well not completely wrong,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: but wrong on part of it. So I'll let a
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: darden part of it.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I'll lead off the advice order by saying, I think
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you've got long term relationships. I think tend to be successful.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: One trait that I noticed. They're easygoing. What I see
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: in long term relationships. If they tell me they've been
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: together for a really long time, I'm never surprised when
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I get to know them, that they have a sense
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: of humor, that they're easy going, they're not easily offended.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Yes they fight, Yes they go at it. They'll go
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: ten rounds over some shit. But like for the most part.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: They're easy to put back together, and there is a
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: sense of like good humor, let it bygones, be bygones,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: sleeping dogs lie. They have the ability to just drop
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: it and just move on over time.
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think trust to get there is like the
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: challenge you have to like put that into practice for
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: a while to say, all right, I can let my
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: guard down, I can right let this go and it's
• 22:56
  Speaker 6: I can trust that person's not going to hold it
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: against me or bring it up right, keep it so
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: often very more.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, keeping score because then and this will happen. We're
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and like, look, that's not to steal away from couples
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: that are like, hey, there's a pattern in our relationship.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It does suck. I'm doing eighty percent of the housework.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: You don't do it. Yeah, And like I don't like
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: this arrangement, and I think that you take me for granted,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: and like it does bother me. And I've brought it
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: up a million times and then you do it. You know,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you do better for a day or two or a week,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and then you kind of slip back into your average
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: again and it kind of sucks, and I feel like, Okay,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that's fine. Like that is a different situation, but like
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the ability to sort of choose to be happy, not
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: keep score, and not necessarily have like a ledger. I
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: think long term relationship advice if you can get away
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: from that. Yeah, both sides just saying like I'm I
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: don't know who's up. I just love you, and I
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: try to be good to you, and I look for
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: you to be good to make.
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: I feel like that is probably harder to do when
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: kids are involved. Yeah, because I imagine that kids choose
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: who they want to spend time with, who they want
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: to give responsibility to. Like, Mom, I can't find my shoes,
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: so now Mom feels like I have to find the
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: shoes or whatever, walk right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Past dad and go Ford exactly, and what.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I just don't run. Your mom wanted to give you
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: eight dollars, find mom.
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: So I do feel like that adds this challenge of
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: as much as say Peter and I like we can
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: just be attuned to each other and say like, oh,
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: you know what, he's really busy doing these other things
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: this week, or he's having a tough week for whatever reason,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: Like I'll just step in and pick up for a while,
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: and then when I'm really like out of it or
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: busy or whatever, like he picks it up, and it's like,
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: and I don't even know how long that is. It
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: could be because I'm not keeping tracks a.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Month where you're like, huh, the majority of this month,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty much been doing it exactly.
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: We're both doing the best we can at any given time,
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: and I think that balances out over time to where
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: you don't feel taken advantage of my advice that I
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: like to give. I decided after thinking on this some
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: some years ago, I'm like, what do you you tell people?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: What is good advice for relationships? But my thoughts are
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: that growing and changing together is super important because you
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: are two people that enter in this relationship, but to
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: leave it just takes one person changing their mind, right,
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: And so if you're not able to, you know, stay
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: in good communication, listen to each other, pay attention to
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: each other, whatever that entails. Right, If you're not able
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: to communicate well enough to sort of say, hey, I
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: want to do these things, how are you doing? What
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: do you think if I go do these? Like trying
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: to balance both of you growing and changing together rather
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: than a part I think is important because my opinion
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: we're different people every decade of our lives, right, You're
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: a totally different person, yes, every decade. Yes, just my opinion.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to circle back to that in a second.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: But I want to pick brains over on this side.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And you're not disqualified just because you've been divorced and remarried.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I think if you've been in a car accident, people
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: would like to know how to drive. I've been injured
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: as a car actor. I've setay, he's a veteran, it's
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: been through it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: No, I I think for me it's uh, it's helpful
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: the longer you're with somebody and you seek understanding, seek
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: to understand and as opposed to try to manipulate or
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: change behavior. So I don't need to necessarily, you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: I don't. I'm not trying to change someone else's behavior.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: What I'm trying to do is get a better understanding
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: for it or of it. And for me that's helpful
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: because then I don't take things so personally like when
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: something happens, you know, even though I feel like I
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: was in the right, I can understand, well, given this
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: person's history and just kind of how they see the world,
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: how you know, they tend to interact with people. Seeing
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: all of these things, I can understand how this person
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: interpreted this this way right, and from their perspective, it
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: makes complete sense.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: If you can, that's a good that's a good piece
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: of life advice. If you can strive to understand where
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: people are coming from, I feel like a you get
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: into a lot less arguments. Yes, yeah, if you if
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: you really understand where people are coming from, or at
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: least attempt to uh a the other person, the other
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: party always sees that. Yeah, that is something that is
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: very obvious and very clear to everyone, and everyone appreciates.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, think about just in your own lives, when
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: when you see someone really working to understand something from
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: your point of view and to really consider your feelings ingenuously.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you know that feels really good.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And it really it's disarming, and you realize like, oh,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: you're not you're not trapping me, you're not playing chess,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: you're not manipulating me and doing.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: You're just trying to understand what I'm doing.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and it's the only way to only way
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: to achieve validation. Like, if that's what you're trying to do,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: you're trying to get to a point where because you
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: can't really move on until the person feels like they've
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: been listened to right right, It's one thing, like you know,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: to kind of go back to the advice that you
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: had earlier of like, you know what, I just don't
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: want to be angry at this. I just don't want
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: to fight about this anymore. Like for one person that
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: may be easy, but for the other person, and maybe
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: it may be like, yeah, I'll bet you would like
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: to move because you pawned my grandmother's ring, right, I
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: bet you would like to move?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Is that this conversation right now?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: But it's really inconvenient for you?
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking more is I was thinking something
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: more along the level of I forgot to do the dishes.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like that's a good one to just like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: let's decide to not fight about this.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I slept with the babysitter. Can we move on?
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Willing to move on?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Are you your sister?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm still sucking the babysitter right now.
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: You taught me I'm gonna finish if that's with you.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're being rude? Okay, how am I going
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: to finish?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: With all the scream you know you don't like when
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I don't like you when I'm fucking babysitter. Dear.
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: No, I like that advice because that is actually one
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: teeny area that Peter and I struggle at a little bit.
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: And the funniest thing happened a couple of weeks ago
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: where because we've been working on this, I was doing
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: the dishes and he was going through the mail and
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: he read off a piece of mail and I misheard him,
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: so I thought he mentioned, uh, mail from this place
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: I got. I like never get loans, but I'd gotten
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: this loan of zero interest, so I made sure to
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: pay it off. And so when he mentioned the name,
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: I was like, I paid that off. Like they shouldn't
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: be sending anything, is what I was thinking. Right, So
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: he says the name that I think I hear, and
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: I go what Like, I was like, no, they are
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: not sending me. That was my perspective, and Peter looks,
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: I mean, I can see on his face he is
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: like triggered by me. He thinks I'm mad at him
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: for something. Yeah, and he's like what his face goes
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: like solid, And when I see that, I was like,
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: I was like, I know, this is a misunderstanding, so
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: I like finished the dishes. I was like, no, what
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: did you just say? And he was like oh, he
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: repeated himself. I'm like okay, and I go, what did
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: you think I was thinking? Just then? I was like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: let me ask real quick, and he's like, yeah, yeah,
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: I thought you were like mad at me. I was like,
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: I wasn't. I was like shocked because I thought I
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: had taken care of this. I was more mad at myself,
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: like what they're not sending me this?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: But I was prepared to be mad about you, but
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I was to be mad.
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: I'm expressing emotion and it's not at you, but that
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: like I could see it on his face at that moment,
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: and it's that's how easy it is to be like
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: create a whole thing if you never just clarify and
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: you're just like my.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: That's the difficult thing, too, is learning how to manage
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: emotions in a relationship because like, your spouse is the
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: person that will see every emotion that you're going through,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: but your spouse is not the cause of every emotion,
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: and that's the challenging piece to be right the gym, Yeah,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: then yeah, quit lighting fires, like stop Jesus Christ, this
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: is this isn't fucking hard.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Like but like you know, burning the house, flooding the house,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: pick one.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like find elane, God damn.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: But like but like you know, your your high moments,
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: your lowest moments, your your fears, your anxieties, your anger.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: They see all of it and they're not involved in
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: all of it. Like it's you know, it's work, it's
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: you know, these hobbies, it's all these other things. But
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: because they're there twenty four to seven, they experience all
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: of it. And sometimes it's really hard to be in
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: that position and to understand that this isn't about me.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: And even if you understand that this isn't about me,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that you're not experiencing right, because it's
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: like because then it's it's it's tough because like somebody
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: who's angry, Yeah, like your your boss is and you
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: don't like your boss and this is frustrating and I
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: know that it's not about me, but why am I
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: always you know, having to take it?
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: You know, like that your boss is making your life difficult.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: It also sucks that because of you, your boss.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Is making my life difficult. You have to find that balance.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: I think that's the toughest part.
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: That's where like the feeling is valid even if it's
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: not the truth, right, Like you're still having that experience.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I like that idea of like fundamentally trying
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: to be what is it to understand rather than be.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Understood, seek understanding empathy.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I like that a lot. And and to circle back
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to something you were saying to Whitney about like people
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: are going to change, right, Like I mean all three
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: of us were, all four of us actually married very
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: young ages, you know, and like changed over time, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: who we are now is nowhere near what we were initially.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I mean literally I've changed religions and politics like in
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: that time. Like that's insane, Like that's a lot of yeah, exactly,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of relatability there. And so like I
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: feel like you need it's his pardon.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: He really changed his too.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he accepted Islam. Try and change my life. So
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: but like you know, you look back on this stuff
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: and you think we went through so many different iterations,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: so many different versions of ourselves, and it is a gamble, right,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: because like we need the freedom to change and like,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: but you need to continually rediscover who your partner is.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of relationships in therapy where they're like,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you've changed, You're not the person that I'm married, as
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: if that's some kind of damning indicton, right, And I
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: look at that and go, I sure as fuck, hope
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: they're now. Of course they have Yeah, of course they
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: have changed. They're not the same person that you know
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you're his mother remembers whenever he was five, you know,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Like we do go through evolutions. Our job though, with
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: our spouse is to allow for that, yeah, and to
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: be curious with that right, to co discover that, to
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: co create that, because we're evolving too. And I know
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: for me that was a big part, Like I have
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: changed so much, she has changed so much. But I
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: think that as we went through our different versions of ourselves,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: there was a genuine curiosity and an acceptance with each
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: other while also still pruning those branches too, because like
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: you're trying on new ideas, you're trying on new personality traits,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: and as you're evolving, sometimes you're like I like this,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, that's not going to be congruent, right,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Like that pokes me in the eye. That's not going
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to work here. Yeah, Like I tried to change our
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: last name to Hitler. You know, She's like, look, I
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: know you're proud of that German heritage, but like we're
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: not going that far it. But like I've already changed
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: the kids' names, right, Adolf and Adolf.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: After our son. I'm committed, but I don't even understand
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: what that means.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I just think you have to do that's nice. One
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: of my fas favorite things to do with couples is
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: to have them do the values inventory together. And I
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: like them doing. Like if I'm giving couples kind of
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: like a kit that I want them to like revisit
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: annually or maybe every couple of years, doing a values
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: analysis together. Doing a love language is enough yet together.
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I just really want to say that the love
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: languages is the only other thing that so simple. I
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: know people kind of roll their eyes at it sometimes,
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: but I'm like, get back to basics, cause you do change.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: You know I had a couple once where I brought
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: up love language. They were a younger couple, and you know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: the one member of the partner was very I think underwhelmed,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: you know by me bringing that up really rolled their
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: eyes and was like, this is really you know, okay,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: this tired old shit, and it's like, look, I get it,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And like I get that it's tired. I get that
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: it's been said a gazillion times. I get that you
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: don't need to come pay me as a therapist to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: bring this up. But like, the fundamental principle is there's
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: a difference between being in a relationship in a passive,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: unintentional way versus you intending to do love at your
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: partner and trying to be a force for good in
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: their life. And that's what fundamentally love languages are. It's
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: it's a paradigm that could be bullshit for all I know.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I also use like needs analysis as an adjacent concept,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: but it's a way to be inquisitive about what your
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: partner would would accept and feel as a loving gesture
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: in their life, and then being about the business of
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: doing that and making that a habit as the way
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: you do your marriage, the way you live. And like,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: whenever you've got somebody intentionally doing good in your life,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it's hard not to love them. It's hard not to
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: be very fond of them, to be very close to them,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: very disarmed in their presence to believe that they are
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: just wanting to and conditionally like just be like Okay, yeah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: you've just built up this huge bank account with me.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And so I realize it can be tired advice, but
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: like it's good advice for a reason.
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: It works.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: It does work, and a lot of times what therapists
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: are doing is we bring that stuff in and it's
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: really frustrating with couples because a lot of times they're like, oh,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I really thought you'd have some brilliant idea and like,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you think we've got, Like we
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: don't have like the State secrets vault that we keep
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: that tells us how to save relationship.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: We do, but it wouldn't be much of a secret's
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: fault if we just opened it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: Every Do you feel like TikTok and social media kind
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: of waters that down, like yeah, or Murky's the waters
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: whatever I want to say, like because I feel like
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: people say, oh, yeah, I know what they are, so
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: do that. But really again, like years ago, when I
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: forced Peter to read this book, he was like, oh,
• 37:30
  Speaker 6: it gives like examples and breaks down parts of it,
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: like it looks very simple if you just look at
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: a twenty second TikTok that goes through each of them,
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: and it seems self explanatory, but there's a lot more
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: to it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: The love languages, in my opinion, are pointless if they
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: are not turned into an action plan. Correct, that's what I. Yeah,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: that's what I and like a lot of men really
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: benefit from very directive therapy. That's like it's taxation orienteded,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: its goal setting, its short term goals. We're making lists,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: we're making calendar.
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: Remind right, I want.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: You to do this, and I am going to check
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: with you in a week. We're going to find out
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: if you did this thing. And like it's just building
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: up that habit, right, and that's everything. And a lot
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: of people will be like, oh, well it's not genuine
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: you're doing it because you're following some people.
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: I don't have to tell them. They should just know that.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well get a divorced then guess what they don't.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And like I'm working on changing them. But sometimes, and
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: this is Jacob's old dadage of fake it till you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: make it, a lot of times function leads like you
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: lead with function, lead with action and cognition and impressions
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: come later, right, Like a lot of people just became
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: religious because they went to church all the time and
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: prayed all the time, and then one day when they
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: were in a moment of despair, that's what they went
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: to that day. It was very genuine for them because
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: like that's the habit they formed in their life. And
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: so whenever you just bring a lot of loving structure
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to your relationship as very intentional and it's the way
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: you live, you start to just feel for them all
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: the time and they feel back for you. So but
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: super exciting, Alec, And can't thank you enough for the
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: extremely kind words. You know, you've been a part of
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: our community for so long. You've contributed so many things,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: been a great friend in the discord, and just being
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: an awesome person and having known your story throughout the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: years and seeing the changes that you've gone through and
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: just how your life has fundamentally changed. Congratulations, man, Just
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: could not have happened to a better guy. And on
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: behalf of the entire pod therapy community. We love you,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: We're excited for you, and we're all waiting for our
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: wedding invites. Yeah, at least send us the registry. I
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: think that's probably a good idea. We're gonna take a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: quick break, and when we come back, we're talking about
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: panic attacks, about death. You're listening to pod therapy.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty Scoop, Mason, Miller,
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Test Miller, Biler, t Paris, Team Monico, Oscar Swan, Rose, Hannah, Marie,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Emma Cain and Myra And if you'd like to sponsor
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: the show, becoming there pretty sure our patreon dot com
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: slash they all right, we got presidential quotes.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, you check your email when Emma sends you trivia,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: but you don't check from your co host.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: You know why it alerts?
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Oh you got a notification?
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: No, because it goes to my Mental Fit personal training account.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. All right, I'll say I'll start emailing that one.
• 40:20
  Speaker 6: That's fine, Yeah, probably Dmagram.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I do follow you now on Instagram follows. I posted
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: it to the Discord and was like, hey.
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: That.
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: Explains a lot, because yeah, I haven't I haven't logged
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: onto it.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Almost.
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: I almost like I should post a bio about could
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: just made up.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Jacob's actually give Jacob control that account?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I don't. I don't think we need.
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: To do that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's okay, I don't know how to post on Instagram?
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: What the hell happened?
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: We don't have guests.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Do y'all use What's App?
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: Yes you do?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just downloaded it because I started taking like
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: a contract job and they just need you to use
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: What's App for their communication. And I'm getting messages from
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: like random ass resiliens that happen. I'm like, how the
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: fuck what is this?
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: Do you get a lot of those?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Just one?
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: Okay? I was like you said, I get one every
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: now and then there, but.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: You just deleted it, block it all right?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I did?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I just like what that's It's not a big deal.
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: I use it mostly when I'm traveling. It's like my
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: number one texting app because you can send pictures to people.
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: If you don't have an iPhone, it'll like send them
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: work okay, yeah, or video and yeah. It's just easier
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: to use internationally.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: That's cool.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's like I've had it for years and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: years because of all the national people to work with.
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: Now that's the only.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: There is a whole group of friends and co workers
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: in my life that I only communicate with on What's App.
• 41:55
  Speaker 6: Do your Australians talk to you on what's.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Definitely Yeah, you're up. First stay, I'll give you the quote.
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: You've got to name the president on the fly one
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: multiple choice.
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: I have know none of you.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: It's all Millard Fillmore.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: I hope it is the Only thing you have to
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: fear is fear itself during the first inaugural.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not helping you. Object God damn.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: Bit Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: The d is the Theodore Roosevelt or Harry S.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: Truman Theodore Roosevelt.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry that.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Is in a good guest, which way is it going?
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Does Jacob get the bounce you I'll take the bounce.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Give me FDR for Jill.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: It is FDR. You gotta I'll take out.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: I'll take the half on the bounce.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Okay, Jim, speak softly and carry a big stick and
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: you will go far.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna take Theodore Roosevelts.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Correct, it should have been Andrew Jackson because he actually
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: beat somebody.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and survived an assassination attempt and beat the ship
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: out of that guy too.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, Jacob, you're up. And the statement of Robert E.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: Lee who's no longer in favor. Did you notice that
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: no longer in favor? Never fight uphill, my boys, Never
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: fight uphill. They were fighting uphill. He said, Wow, that
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: was a big mistake. He lost his great general and
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: they were fighting. Never fight uphill, my boys. But it
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: was too late.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Clearly all right, No, that was not actually.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: Here's your real one. Honesty is the first chapter in
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: the Book of Wisdom, which founding father and president said this.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I'll go on the fly. That sounds like a Washington thing. Okay, No, no, okay,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: going for options.
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: Options you can.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: I'll give you options, options, George Washington.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Take that one.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: John Adams, T J. Thomas, t J. Jefferson or James
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: Madison Adams guessing No, Oh.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: My goodness, come in full circle. I probably Madison, No five. Yeah,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: you're good at this.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I'm good at you guys being dumb.
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, pay off.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And I think of honesty. I feel good, old Tommy.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Even when I get the question wrong. I feel a little.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Bit of justified when I hear the answer that I
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: guessed incorrectly in the list of choices.
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: That's fair on the right, the neighborhood.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. I felt yours is a very
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: fair answer, because if you're here founding fathers in honesty.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Washington was was you know that all the all the
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: children's stories are about how honesty?
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got it. You gotta throw that dart.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I had to tell somebody that he cut down a
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: cherry tree or something.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Cannot tell a lie. Wouldn't lie to his mom about fandalism,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: so tree aside, it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Was his dad.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I believe they also all owned slaves, so you know
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: there was that. Yeah, I'm in the lead. I think,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: oh yes, right, okay, try again, man. I mean I
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: don't want him to have five. But when all.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Three of us on a four possible question, very.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Since this rule has been initiated, that you haven't lost one?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think it needs to be seems
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: to be plenty.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: You should get a point for every person who missed
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: three buried in those points.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Next question? Panic attacks about death from sleepless in Seattle.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Oh good, somebody's finally doing that. Hey friends, I'm a
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: thirty seven year old male from the UK and I
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: have panic attacks about death. Quick side note, you might
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: remember answering my question about a year ago about motivating
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: yourself to go out for a walk because you know
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it's good for your mental health. You helped me to
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: reframe how I view walking in my mind, and I'm
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: now a lot more active than I used to be,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: so active in fact that I have recently taken up running.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: So thank you for your help. That down, cool, it off, sleepless, Okay,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: So thank you for all your help and for all
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: you do on the podcast supporting mental health. So some
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: relevant backstory about me that relates to my question today.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: My dad died five years ago of cancer. It was
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: less than a year from diagnosis to death. It was
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: hard to deal with at the time, but I was
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: already in therapy for anxiety and depression, and so it
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: was another thing that we dealt with over the several
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: years I had weekly therapy sessions. Being in therapy at
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the time really helped me to deal with this. I
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: stopped doing therapy about four years ago. I was a
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: lot better at managing my day to day. It's still
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: something I deal with in some days it's worse than others,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: but it's not stopping me from living my life like
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: I used to. Three years ago, my father in law
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: died of cancer again, less than a year from diagnosis
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: to death. I helped my partner through it, and I
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: think I was better able to be supportive because of
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: what I had been through myself already. Last year, we
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: had to put our cat down because they had cancer.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: That was less than a month from finding out they
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: had it to having to put them down. I feel
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: a little guilty even mentioning the cat in the same
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: list as the two most important men in my life,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: but I mention it as it feels relevant to what
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I'm writing in about I've always found the idea of
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: death pretty terrifying. I'm an atheist, and to me, the
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: idea of just ceasing to exist is awful. And the
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: fact that there is nothing I can do to escape
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: it or stop it from happening, that feels like literal
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: nightmare fuel. Honestly, I think the people who aren't afraid
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: of death are the weird ones. The best analogy I
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: can think of if you put someone in one of
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: those Indiana Jones style death traps, the kind where the
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: walls have spikes and they're slowly moving towards you, They're
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: going to crush you. I think pretty much every human
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: is going to panic and scream and do whatever they
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: can to get out. Well, those walls are slowly inching
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: towards you. They might take thirty forty fifty years to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: get there, but you are trapped and they are going
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: to get you. So why isn't everyone panicking? Sleepless?
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Jesus, I can finish the question.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I'm freaking out right now.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Thanks for that, all right, Jim's losing his shit.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go cry in the corner.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: You guys, you guys, give the feedback.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Anyway. I have two actions.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: I know what we're gonna be doing for the next hour.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Just you're fine, rocking, and there's lots of time, buddy.
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: Anyway, I have two actual If anybody can fucking survive death,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: I think you've proven in the last yeah death, let
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: me know.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I'm unnoticed, all right, but it's not my time. I
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: had a coming, but not soon.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Liar, liar, kitchen on fire. Anyway.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I have two actual problems at the moment. One is
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: that two or three times a week I have mild
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: panic attacks when I'm lying in bed trying to get
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: to sleep. These are all pretty similar and roughly go
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: like this. I'm trying to get to sleep, I think
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: about how one day I'm going to die, how I
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: can't do anything to avoid it, how I could have
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: cancer already and not know about it and I might
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: die soon. Then my heart starts racing. I have an
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: overwhelming feeling of dread and fear that lasts a few minutes.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Then I have to distract myself from these thoughts by
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: looking at my phone or reading a book, as there's
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: no way I can sleep until I've got it off
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: my mind. I don't know if panic attack is the
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: right way to describe those fairly mild symptoms, because I've
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: had a handful of full on panic attacks and this
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: is nothing in comparison. I don't want to minimize what
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: real panic attacks are like, but it feels like an
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: appropriate description unless there's a better word I should be using.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: So anyway, Yeah, these aren't awful, but they're pretty regular
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: and they're definitely having the impact on me getting good
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: enough sleep all the time. The second problem I'm facing
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: is that three times in the last year I've had
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: the full blong kind of panic attack, same thought process
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: triggering it, but these have all been during the daytime.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: These have ended up in me curled in the fetal position,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: struggling to breathe completely overwhelmed. Twice it happened while driving
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: and I had to pull over in order to have
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: a complete meltdown. So nowhere near is often, but it
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: is a lot more debilitating. The grief I felt after
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: losing my father and father in law has reduced over
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: time that felt totally unmanageable at first. It still hurts now,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: but it is a lot better. Is this panic about
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: death also going to get better with time? If I'm
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: totally honest with myself. If anything, this, if anything, this
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: feels like it's getting worse and it scares me. Can
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: you even get therapy to help with panicking about death?
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I don't really see how that would work. When I
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: had therapy and we were talking about how I felt
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: left out with my friends or how I struggled to
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: get my needs met because I can't communicate my emotions
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: that made sense to talk about, I worry a therapist
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know what to say about death. I'm sure you
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: will suggest getting therapy, but I just don't see how
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: it can help for this situation. I guess I just
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: like some reassurance that a therapist could be helpful for
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: this somehow. Thank you love the podcast signed Sleepless in
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Seattle because of the death based panic attacks.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your therapist can help you with this. Go talk
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: to your therapists. Next question, Next question.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: As a fellow atheist, I used to have this fear
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: a lot, fear of death something.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Until I gave my life back.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: To be something that really bothered me. Until I heard
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: one thing and I have not thought about it since.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Oh okay.
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: And it was a quote by Mark Twain who had said.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: No, he was talking about, you know, being an atheist
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: or not believing God and death. And he said, and
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: and somebody had asked him once about non existence and
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: like doesn't that frighten you? And he said, I have
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: not existed for over a millennia before I was born,
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: and it didn't inconvenience me in the slightest.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I like that line.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: And if you think about it, like, you know, death
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: is a lot like being stupid, you know, where it's
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: really only inconvenience to the people around.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: You, right, because it's.
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: It's but it's like, like this is the one thing
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: in life that you don't need to fear because you
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: have already experienced it. You have experienced non existence and
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: you were fine, Yeah, that's profound, you know. And so
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: it's like, that's it's going to feel the same way
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: on the other end as it did before.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Is so like That's how I've.
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: Always approached it, and then since then I've just been like, yeah,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: I don't. I don't have that fear of what is
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: that going to be? Like my my only fear is
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: like will I have gotten enough out of life before
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: that happens?
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: You know? You guys see the movie Jesus Christ.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he learns French.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Uh, the movie there's a movie my old ass.
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: Oh my gosh. I had a client tell me she
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: wanted me to watch that.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: It's on my So I just watched it last night.
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: It looks very good, like the preview for it.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: It is amazing.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, what's it about.
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: Actually the client that recommended that had OCD, like extreme OCD,
• 53:47
  Speaker 6: which is what I'm going to talk about to this
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: question a minute. So that's interesting.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: So Aubrey Plaza, yeah, plays the future self of this
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: eighteen year old girl. Okay, So, so she lives in Canada.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: She's about to go to way to college. Her and
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: her friends go out, they go camping, and she gets
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: high on mushrooms, has this experience where she meets her
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: future self, okay, and the two of them and then
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: so her future self has this idea like I'm going
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: to put my cell phone number in your phone. You
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: can call me, yeah, and it works and so they
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: can maintain contact and everything, and so it's really it's
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: really profound, and it's kind of this idea of like,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: if you could go back and talk to yourself at eighteen,
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: what would you tell yourself and just you know, the
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: things that you think are very wise and how you
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: could help your eighteen year old self. But like, I'm
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: not going to give give it away, but it's it's
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: very it's it's kind of sad. It's a sad story,
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: but it is an amazingly good movie.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, I think it's interesting you say that, Nick,
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: you your biggest fear isn't death, but just have I
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: what I want to because at my perspective on that
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: is that it won't matter because you'll be dead anyway.
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: You won't really care if you accomplish any It's.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: What it is is it's the it's the last hour
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: before I die.
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: So that's where I was. I was gonna say, I
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: don't really fear death just like you said, like after
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: I won't know, I'll just be gone. It's fine. He
• 55:22
  Speaker 6: gives a fuck. It's more like, what's happening to kill me?
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: That's my biggest fear. Maybe that's what the writer's more
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: so trying to say. I'm not sure because they're like, oh,
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: if the spikes are coming at you and you're like screaming,
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: running trying to get out. I read that and thought
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: I would just build a wall, avoid and s Whitney here,
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: maybe build a wall, and I'm gonna live in ignorant
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: bliss because I don't know how fast that thing's gonna
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: come through that well, i'll know in the last like
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: five minutes once it breaks the wall happens not blind
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: well yeah blindfolding this yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much,
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: because it's like we know it will happen, just like
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: you said. Uh, but I get more scared, Like sometimes
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: when I'm down at night, my like heart does this
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: weird thing where it slow it feels like it's beating slowly,
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: and so sometimes I'm like, is my heart stopped beating?
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: Like I get panicked a little bit. I'm like, am
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: I dying right now? It's for like two seconds, I'm like, oh,
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: I'm not. It's fine. But that is the scariest part
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: to me, Like the awareness that I am dying, like
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: in that moment, that's what scares me the most.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think a couple of notes on
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: here sleepless. So first, whether you're an atheist or you're
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: a person of faith, you're going through this, yep. I
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: mean the reassurance that don't worry. You know, the millennia
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I existed before or didn't exist before, wasn'tn inconvenience. It
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: is a profound thing to meditate upon. I can appreciate
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: that a person still dreads in fear.
• 56:45
  Speaker 6: COVID prove this to me when I watched people who
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: are atheists or.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Right, nobody wants to die. Yeah, it turns out nobody's
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: really at peace with it for the most part. And
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: like the right, the person who's not bothered in the
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: slightest they they are the outlier. That's probably true. Most
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: of us would like to not die and are fearful
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: of it. And I think that that's an evolved response, right,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Like as a species, for us to continue to survive,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: we had to be anxious little bunnies that were like
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: looking for predators and trying to avoid them and avoid
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: them as possible. Yeah, we were maximizing everything, and like
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: that's exactly you know, the instinct that we have. And
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: I think that this is also one of the things
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: that really fascinates me about the idea of consciousness. And
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: like I've been really doing a lot of research lately
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: into like the new evolutions of AI and like some
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: of the future of it and some of the unique
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: breakthroughs the reaching and just really this the new question
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: of like at what point do we say that there's personhood,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: At what point is their consciousness? And what are the
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: consequences of that as well? And like one of the
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: things that I think is a hallmark of consciousness is
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: the awareness of death. Like I think that the goldfish
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: would like to not die. There is some kind of
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: basic biological imperative to avoid harm and to avoid being
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: eaten in pain and all that stuff. But I don't
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: know that the fish lies awake at night understanding that
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: the flame could one day out and so like the
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: light of consciousness. I think like the first fear of
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: this little candle of consciousness that gets ignited in this dead,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: empty blackness of space is that it realizes everything is dead, cold,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: lifeless and empty, and it doesn't want to go back
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: It's like it realizes what a fragile little candle it is,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: and how quickly it will be snuffed out, but the
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: slightest of breezes would suffice to take it away. And
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I think that that's like a really profound fear. I
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: remember Blaze Pascal wrote that in his book Pencies, something
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: to the effect of like man is but a read
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: It takes but a vapor of water to kill him,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: and yet there is more nobility in us than in
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: all of creation. And he's just like reflecting on like
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the chasm of like life and death, and how we
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: are always living in fear of it. And so every
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: philosopher writes about this, every theologian writes about this. It
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: is the fundamental cornerstone of all religion. And even if
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: you've escaped out of the religious world, as Sleepless is
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: reflecting on, as Nick was reflecting on, it can still
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: be a very haunting thing, and so I just want
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: to validate that for you, writer, because I don't want
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: you to feel like you are abnormal in that way.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: You're among the majority. The second thing I would add
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: to that is to echo what Jacob said right off
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: the bat, which was, yes, therapy one hundred percent deals
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: with this. Oh yeah, And I think it's it's unfortunate
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: that you hadn't already bumped into this because you've suffered
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: with it for longer than I think you should have.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people think of therapy as a place.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: How long do you think he should have suffered from this?
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: An appropriate amount is, you know, days, like days and weeks,
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: not this long. I don't like this because cognitive behavioral
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: therapy lines up on this really really well, and it's
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: designed to sit down and take on in this careful,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: nuanced rational way, the overwhelming fear that we're having to
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: right size that fear that yes, death is inevitable, right,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: so is aging, so is illness. These things are realities.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: And yet, like all inevitable realities, we also still have
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: to function in the day to day, right, And so
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: whenever our mind starts going through this loop, this spiral
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: that is the experience of mental illness that we call
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: a panic attack. It's a dysfunction. It's not helping us survive, right.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Lacking sleep, worrying about fictional things that haven't come to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: pass yet, even if they are inevitable, is not going
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: to help you function in the now. And anything that's
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: contrary to or functioning in the now is an illness, right,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: and so we want to push against that. So one
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: of the first things I ever took on as a therapist,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I remember doing this in my student internship. One of
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: the first patients that I had real success with was
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: a woman who had an existential fear of death, and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: so she was dealing with like really severe panic attacks
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: anxiety attacks. And I remember, as a new therapist being
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: so out of my depth, and.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: I was just thinking, how did you work with that
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: as a new therapist, Like.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't even have CBT at that point, Like I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: didn't know how to help her. I ended up going
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: into narrative therapy because that was a new thing that
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I had been exploring at the time, and so I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: was really starting to work on like narrating and storytelling
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: a life.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: You have you read the book on Love languages.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the first thing I did, like, let's talk about
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: what you're what you're saying journaling about it? Have you
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: tried diaphormatic breathing.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: And the only tool you've got to is a hammer? Right?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: But no, we ended up doing a lot of amazing
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: fix Swiss army knife. So like we did a lot
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: of externalizing where this patient ended up coming up with
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: a name and an identity for that fearful voice, and
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: ended up coming up with this whole fictional character that
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: resembled a hour glass and uh, and it's it's. It
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: was constantly just pointing to the clock, right, the ticking
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: clock and saying, you know, another another grain of sand
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: has fallen? Man, you know how many are left? Like
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: how much longer do you have? Are you getting everything
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: done that you want to get done? Are you living
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: the life you want to live? Are you ready for this?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: It's coming? You know? And like realizing what a distraction
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: in her life that was, how it was stealing away
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: her may, it was stealing away her ability to work,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: her family, time, her joy, her dreams. Right, so preoccupied
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: with something that will fundamentally happen in one actual second
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: and sacrificing all the seconds on the way, and so
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: she realized the metaphor of using every grain of sand,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: fearful of the last and what a waste that was.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: Well, it's also a it's kind of a survival mechanism
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: to not know, right, Like the ignorance.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: Is important, Like if you did know, if you could
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: watch it come toward you, that'd be terrifying.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: So like in this movie, I'm gonna go back to
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: the movie My Old Ass again because it's such a
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: good movie. But like they bring up the point and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: I've heard this analogy.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: Before, but he was.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one of the characters was talking, you know, to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: another character, is like, do you remember, like as a kid,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: did you ever like spend all day just playing make
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: believe with your friends and that was your entire day
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: and you did that, Like do you remember doing that
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: as a kid? Yes, Like okay, well do you still
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: do that now?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 6: No?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: It's like, okay, so there was a day where you
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: did that for the last time, right, you know, right?
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: And like had you had you known that that was
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: the last time you would ever do this, how big
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: of an impact that would have on you? Or Like
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: I've heard the other example, the way that I've heard
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: it is like, you know, there was a day where
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: your parents picked you up for the last time, right,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: you know, and like, but but what we were able
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: to move on from that because neither our parents nor
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: us knew that that was the last time that would
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: ever happen, you know, And so like if if if
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: we constantly were looking at things as being the last time,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: how could you ever move on? Like and so it
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: is kind of this, this survival mechanism that we have,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: this like, this ignorance is kind of important for us
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: to be able to live our lives and not count
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: on every you know, every grain of sand.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Well, no, what you're saying is is exactly part of
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: the solution to this. I mean, not just the right sizing,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: not just using rational interventions, but fundamentally embracing like at
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: all times every human being on earth that has two
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: eyeballs at all times right now, all four of us.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: You can see your nose right now, not only if
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: you cross your eyes right now in binocular vision looking
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: across the table in any distance, your nose is always
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: in your field of vision, but it is not there.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: You do not see it until you want to see it,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: until you try to see it until you take your
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: finger and bring it slowly up to your face. Then
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: it becomes apparent again. And that's because your brain is
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: taking that image of yeah, yeah, that's a price, I
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: look around it. I'm over here staring dilto on my face.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: I pay extra car because I have to look around
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: this thing.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: So the point is your brain deploys this intentional deletion
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: of a fact. Your nose is as plain as the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: nose on your face. It is factually there at all times,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: but it is unhelpful for you to always see it.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: It will distract you from the things that are functionally
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: useful for you to see. So your brain, without your
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: cognitive permission, has edited this out of your field of
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: vision for the purpose of increasing your function. So this
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: goes back to next point of this intentional blindness being
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: a feature being something humans have as a survival tool.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: One of the things I think consciousness has to evolve
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: in order to successfully navigate the burden of existence, right,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: And I think sometimes like crippling depression and stuff like that,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: is when a lot of times people start to see
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: the game and they start to like zoom out and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: they see the matrix and they're like, oh shit, no,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: life is pointless, like there is only despair, nothing really matters.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: And you realize and you try to talk to them
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: about that, and you're like, you're not wrong, and yet
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: at some point you have to get yourself back into
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: the things that do matter subjectively only to you, and
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: there's value in that, and welcome back to the human experiment. Right,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: we're all dealing with this razor's edge of balance between oblivion,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: nothingness and pointlessness and finding meaning in the now, and
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: I think fearing losing that meaning goes the other way
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: on that razor's edge, where you become extremely anxious and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of panic, and there's nothing embarrassing or
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: wrong about that, right, Like, I don't know if y'all
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: were disciplined physically as kids. In my house it was
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: very head to extra you a picture for that. In
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: our house, it was quite physical. And Dad was a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: traveling salesman. So when I'd fuck up, i'd fuck up
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: on like day two of Dad being gone for like
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: a week, And at that point the oath had been
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: stated that you know what, when Dad gets wrong, you're
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: getting an ass whooping. And as a little kid, now
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about that every single day, and at that
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: at your emotional maturity level, it's like a cancer diagnosis.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Like you cannot see past the day Dad gets home.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: You don't know how to think.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Bigger than a lot of connecting.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Dad is gonna come home and at that point, he's
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: gonna give me cancer.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Right, that's what the brain is thinking. But like you've
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: got to like appreciate that the spikes on the walls
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: coming towards you. The anticipation is so much worse than
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: the moment. Yes, And I think being a therapist, having
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: patients that have had terminal cancer and walking with them
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: every step of the way right up to the finish line,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: right up to the bedside, there is a piece at
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: the finish there is a point when they do have
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: true acceptance, and I think a lot of the fear
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: goes away in that moment, right, because it's the anticipations
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: that's the really profound thing, and there are ways to
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: deal with that, even if that's a menacing thing. It's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: always over your head. Writer, I know you said, you
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: knew we were gonna say, go to therapy, Go to therapy,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: work with this on an anxiety front, cognitive behavioral therapy
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: has a lot to do with this. Existential therapy is
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: almost designed for this. Victor Frankel, who survived the inn
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: internship camps of World War Two, he literally would ask
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: you internment, no, not in tournament either depends on concent
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: concentration camps. But like he would ask his patients, why
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: have you not killed yourself yet? You just walk up
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: to his patients and ask that question. And it was
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: to fundamentally help them excavate and rediscover their meaning. What
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: is the purpose of life? And that became his book,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Man Search for Meaning Right, and how he found that
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: at death's door, So facing death every single day, that
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: man had to live in constant fear that it was
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: a plausible reality that the man standing next to him
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: would be shot in the back of the head in
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: any given moment. And he wrote his whole book about
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: how in the end of the day he prevailed against
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: that fear by finding meaning in every breath and every
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: person having to do that for themselves. So there are
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: so many different methods that we deploy sleepless against this.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: And also if you haven't already, I would talk to
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: your physician make sure that you're using all the tools
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: of ail when somebody's having debilitating panic attacks multiple times
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: a year to the point where you cannot function. Boy,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: do I think your doctor wants to hear about that?
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll bet you they would love for you to
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: have a medicine in your pocket and not be surprised
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: if they offered that to you.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 6: I like that acceptance. A fun fact. I'm a nervous flyer,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 6: even though I love travel, and it came kind of
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 6: out of nowhere. When I was a senior in high school,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: I was on a short flight from Dallas to Little
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 6: Rock and was having a literal yeah, anxiety attack on
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 6: the plane. I was like, how are we even staying
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 6: in the air? You know, like things that I know,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 6: the answering so many times, I know, I know, my
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 6: little brain was like not comprehending. So it was a
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: whole thing. And after that it even got to a
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: point where I missed one of my cousin's weddings because
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: I didn't get on the flight. I was so scared.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 6: And it came out of nowhere. I flew as a
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: kid all the time, didn't think twice about it. All's
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: well till just this one day, and it shifted, and
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: so even still to this day, I do get nervous
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 6: when there's a lot of turbulence, and I literally have
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 6: a mantra I just tell myself, and part of it
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: does involve relaxing my whole body, like I forcefully, like
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: just take slow deep breaths and like kind of a
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 6: mini body scan, and I make mm hm, I make
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: my whole body relax, even though I'm very nervous still.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 6: And my mantra is, if it's my time to go,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: it's my time to go, and I'm out of control
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: of that right now. Like if the plane crash crashes,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: it probably won't I do follow up with that one
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 6: death to the point mm hmm, so I just close
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: my eyes, I know maybe so Yeah, I think that
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 6: that's a hard situation, and it's scary when we think
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: about like death could be facing us right then and there,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: or it might be really close, like what if I
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: have cancer right now? And so sometimes I just think
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 6: that that radical acceptance of yeah, I might I might
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 6: have cancer right now and I'm might die next week,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 6: right that.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Radical acceptance a very powerful tool in the tool belt,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: often one that's harder to get to a little bit
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: more advanced.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: It took time. I didn't that right away.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Right right now, sleepless is using the distraction techniques, which
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: is very level one. Yeah, and it's useful, you know.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: And like again, I think your doctor would love to
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: hear about the insomnia. I think that they would like
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: to help you forget about these problems and fall asleep
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: and help biologically start that process for you. But yeah,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: that's that distraction is definitely a step. As much as
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: I tease breathing exercises, but progressive muscle relaxation. The mind
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: will follow the body a lot of times, yes, And
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: if you can get the body to do something first,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: the mind will just go with it.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 6: That is my strategy. I'm like, I my mind is
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: out of control, so let me just start there, and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 6: it's it reduces it. Doesn't think it go away, but
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 6: it reduces it quite a bit.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: I think that that's a great strategy. Radical acceptance takes
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit further to get to, and that's always
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: a profound day when somebody finds radical acceptance, they realize
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I don't even need to sit down and like cognitive
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: behavioral therapy the problem anymore, and like hit pause and
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: work through it methodically. I've just reached a place where like,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: if it happens, it happens, I'm at peace.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 6: And that's mainly flying because I really am. There's no
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: control over that, you know, Like if I'm laying in bed,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, I could go to the doctor and
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: see if I have cancer. You know, there's things I
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 6: could do to try and figure that out.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Which can become a problem, right, because then people become hypervigilant, yes,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: and then they're constantly like, what's this freckle? Another appointment? Yes,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: and that can rack up the medical bills in America anyway,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: and like become a real problem too. So this is
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: why this writer. This is absolutely something we have all treated,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: we've all dealt with. It is very very common. Anxiety
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: is a big part of what we do death, anxiety,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: health anxiety huge part of what we do in mental health. Yeah,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: so please look into getting some more support with that.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: You're very comfortable with mental health. We love that you
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: need to work on that. At the bare minimum, I'd
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: want you to get like the cognitive Behavioral Therapy work
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: book by doctor Aaron Beck Book Walk Walk Book. I
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Need Water.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: I'm such a tru cooking in next.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: On that note, we're going to take a break in.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: When we come back, we're talking about was I in
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: the wrong for missing a therapy appointment? If it was
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: one of mine?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Fuck you?
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty Scoop, Mason Miller,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: Tess Miller, Biler, t Harris, Team Monaco, Oscar swanros Anna, Marie,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: Emma Cain and Myra. And if you want to sponsored
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: the show, become a therap producer Patreon dot com slash.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: All right, let's see here, Whitney, you are up. Hey.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: I can be President of the United States or I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: can control Alice. I can't possibly do both. Which president
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: said this about his wild, spotlight loving daughter.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 6: I mean options.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I love this, though I don't know who it is.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: But I recognize this, but I can't remember who it
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: is yet.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, or Grover Cleveland.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 6: Grover Cleveland, good, good shot for it.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: I like that for it.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: No Jimmy is coming over here? It does? It goes
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: over There's the same way every time. Every time.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I give me gosh, shit, I know Theodore Roosevelt
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: had a daughter, but there's no way that man would
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: say he couldn't control something. It seems like a charming statement.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: FDR was very charming.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Give me FDR no shit, Teddy Roosevelt. It was Teddy Roosevelt.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: For context, Alice Roosevelt once smoked cigars, kept a pet
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: snake in the White House, and interrupted cabinet meetings. Basically,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: she was the first influencer.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Shot nice nice All.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: Right, Jim, if I were two faced, I would be
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: wearing I would be wearing this one. Okay, if I
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: were two faced, I would be wearing this one.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I'll take options.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: Which president dropped this self deprecating singer after being called ugly?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right, okay.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: You want options? I do.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: It?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: Was it Donald Trump, John Adams, Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Jackson?
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: Gimme Lincoln? It was like famously ugly and famously self deprecating.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: What was that line? He said, I'd rather be silent
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: and be thought stupid than open my mouth and confirm.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: It that Uh Jacob, Yes, Nick.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: When the president does it, it means it is not legal,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: not illegal. Richard middle name uh Richard. Im the im
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: stood for Melvin No, think Simpsons. Yeah, it's like.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 6: Uh Martin, Wait you say Martin.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Was Yeah, what's the boy's name? Munson?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: It's like Samsonite, it's like military or something. Right, Yeah? Uh,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: and yes it was Richard Nixon Millhouse very good.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: Wow, famously said it in his Frost Nixon interview.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, cool, I'm not a crook. I believe I
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: think I'm pretty sure that's where you said that.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: So Nick stillan first, Jacob the strong second place.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 6: At this point I got a point maybe, Yeah, all right?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Was I in the wrong for missing a therapy appointment? Hey,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: pod therapy crew. I'm a male, he him pronouns. In
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: my forties, I went to a therapist hoping to find
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: someone who could use em DR to help me with
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: childhood trauma. I got along fine with her at first,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: though after two attempts at EMDR, she claimed it wouldn't
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: work for me.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: You said it twice. What's EMDR?
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: I movement desensitization reprocessing. Yes, it feels right. She also
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: suggested inner child work would be a good idea, but
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: gave that up after one session. About eight or nine
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: sessions in I confused an appointment time and showed up
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: at noon instead of nine am. When she came out
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: of her office and saw me, she didn't ask how
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: I was doing. She didn't check to see why I
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: missed the appointment. Rather, in a very condescending tone, she
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: told me, hello, name, you missed your appointment at nine am,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: and I had to charge you seventy five dollars for
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: the misappointment fee. At that point, I didn't even know
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: I had missed my appointment, as I thought it was
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: at noon. I was very taken aback by the authoritarian
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: tone she used. I told her I thought the appointment
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: was at noon, and she again repeated herself and spoke
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: to me as though I were a child. I felt
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: like she was using shame and guilt to imply I
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: was in the wrong. She never asked why I thought
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: it was at noon or where the confusion arose coming
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: from trauma like she knew I had. I was in
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: a freeze mode and couldn't verbally express anything. It took
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: me several minutes of her scolding me and then asking
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: me when we should schedule our next appointment before or
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: I could speak up to ask her to double check
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: with her appointment scheduler slash Reminder company. I could not
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: find a text in my phone for the appointment reminder,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: which I normally received at day before, as I wanted
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: to make sure that I didn't get it wrong. She
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: said she would call them later, but that now she
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: had a client that she was waiting for. I left
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: her office very flustered and upset. Later that day, I
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: texted and asked if she had called her scheduling company yet.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: She only reiterated what she had said earlier, that a
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: reminder text would have gone out twenty four hours in
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: advance for a nine am appointment and she hadn't had
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: time to call. I asked if she would be willing
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: to waive the seventy five dollars since I did show
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: up though at the wrong time, hadn't missed any week
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: so far, and didn't get the reminder text. After radio
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: silence for five days, I texted again. She then responded
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: by a text reiterating that we had the appointment at nine,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: that I missed the appointment, and she wouldn't be able
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: to refund the money for me because if she did,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: then she would have to do it for everyone. A
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: very binary thought process in my opinion. She then calls
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: me after the text and reprimands me for even asking
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: for the seventy five dollars and that we won't be
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: having any sessions after this. Jesus fucking whow. She proceeds
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: to tell.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: Me this last one is kind of the nuclear thing there.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: Fuck Like, fine, you're not gonna get the seventy five
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: bucks back, all right, but I'm want somebody to like
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: cancel treatment because of this.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: She proceeds to tell me that she is a professional
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: and this is a business, which is just very demeaning
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: in itself, as if I didn't understand these simple concepts.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: She goes on to tell me she doesn't normally start
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: her day at nine am, but she was doing me
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: a favor and didn't and I didn't even show up.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: Why is this my responsibility to know when her day starts?
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: Am I supposed to be groveling and extra grateful that
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: she has done this favor for me that I didn't
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: even ask for or know that she was putting out
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: to do. She told me that since I'm using an
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: EAP program, she's only working for sixty five dollars an
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: hour when she normally works for one hundred and twenty
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: dollars an hour and was trying to help me out.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: Has there been enough shame and guilt heaped on me yet?
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: She repeated implied that I was upset about the seventy
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: five dollars, which I was not, and I told her
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: as much multiple times. She continued to try and gaslight
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: me by telling me over and over I was upset
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: over the money. It was the tone, the guilt, the shame,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: and the superior attitude she took that left me so distraught.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: I am, of course, very upset about being spoken to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: like this. I was raised with a covert, narcissistic parent.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: I understand gaslighting. I understand how to read a person's emotions.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: I understand when someone is using shame and guilt to manipulate.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: I understand what I'm being spoken down to. After telling
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: her that I felt like I was attacked, she says,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: you're a grown adult and again reprimands me from missing
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: the appointment. This sudden grown adult reversal is also surprising,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: since she has been telling me in session that I
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: am not an adult for the last eight weeks. She
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: clearly sees herself as the adult in the room and
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: I am the child for context. This is my third
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: therapist experience. The other two were not very successful either. Briefly,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: the first one was out of pocket with better help,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: and I met with the therapist once before they said
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: they were no longer going to do therapy on the platform.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: The second was also out of pocket, and she said
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: she specialized in religious trauma. But when I brought up
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: somewhat that polarizing topic, she was so strongly opinionated and
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: argumentative toward me over something I considered nuanced. After all
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: of that, I guess my questions are Number one, what
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: would you all do for a cancelation refund protocol in
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: a situation where a client shows up for their appointment
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: same day but at the wrong time. Was it wrong
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: for me to ask for a refund?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Two?
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: Is it possible that these therapists are seeing something in
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: me that is diagnosable and turning them away from working
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: with me. I'm starting to wonder if I'm actually pob Wiley.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Number Three, what should I do differently when looking for
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: a therapist in the future. I'm feeling deflated and that
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: maybe just meditating an exercise would be better than trying
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: to the therapist. As this seems to have kept me
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: afloat up until now. I've also con that are seeking
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: out a male therapist if I were to try again.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of my childhood emotional trauma comes from
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: my father. What are your thoughts on seeking a specific
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: gender therapist? Any other thoughts are welcome? And thank you
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: for taking the time to read my question, Anonymous. Well,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: it's all the time we got for this week's session.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: Oh that's been such a good move. Oh so fun
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 5: have Fuck you. I would have this question hours ago,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: but not now. We got shit to do.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: What is your refa or like not refun but cancelation policy.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of therapists are really bullish about
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: it and there and there's a lot of talk in
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: the threads with like you are worth it, stand on
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: your value, stand on your worth, and I get it,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Like I understand that. You know, we tend to get
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: buffaloed over like we're an empathic breed.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, I prize the therapeutic alliance above everyame
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: I am not about. I do not want that fee
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: a if it's going to cause harm, because there's that
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: whole fucking thing like never do that. But b I'm
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: thinking long term, Like you're a regular patient of mine,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: It's fine, I'll get it back.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: Also like and again, this person that therapist sounds like
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: they're tight on money. I don't want to, you know,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: like disqualify that or minimize that. But how they handle
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: that is nowhere near me. Like my on paper, my
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: rule is like, hey, I reserve the right to pop you. Like,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: if you're not going to do this, I could bill
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: you for the late session. This is how it works.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: But when somebody misses on mine, ay, my shit's tight,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Like I'm getting reminders are going out, emails and texts
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: are going out. I'm texting them, I'm calling them. Yeah,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: this bitch walked out there at nine point fifteen, didn't
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: see her patient and didn't fucking call.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Where you are?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I text because I'm anxious if my patients are you okay?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: Are you mad at me? Like they have to call me.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 6: I'll calm down all my way, I'll be.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: An advocate for the therapist for a second. Yeah, and
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: that it makes.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: Me not always, it can make me insane when when
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: this happens to me, if someone misses an appointment with me,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: it can really bother me, yeah, and like and sometimes
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: like in the case of this therapist, it sounds like like, hey,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: you know, I moved around in my day to get
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: myself here and then you blew me off like that.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Makes me mad.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: That really does make me mad.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: And I'm assuming that it's in your contract you're something
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: another the seventy five dollars thing and everything. Also, I
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: don't know how upset you can get at the therapist
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: for saying that you were upset about the late fee
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: when you asked it to be refunded.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: So like you're clearly upset to some.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: Degree enough to ask to ask for a refund. Yeah,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: So I mean there's there's something there that I that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: I want to push back on you a little bit
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: with there. Sure that being said, if this is how
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: it all went down, that's a lot of reactions.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and then calling you back and being like and
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: another thing, you're fired. I won't see you anything because
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: of an accident. Yes, and because you honestly asked the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: follow up question which everybody asks, sure.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 6: And then not responding for like almost a week.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's weird.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: Like the whole process is really weird. Like for me,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: if you miss number one, I'm gonna try to reach
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: out to you right away and find out if you're okay. Two.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: And I've had people just have shitty excuses. I've had
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: people that just missed. I've messaged them, hair, are you okay,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: can't get a hold of you. Hey when you when
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: you see these messages, please check in. I just need
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: to know you're okay. And I'll sometimes give them that
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: polite nudge of like, I do have a responsibility to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: protect you if you're in danger, and like that's usually
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: the wake up called, like don't fuck around and find
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: out whenever I send a wellness officer, like I need
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: to know you're okay, Like, don't ghost me, right and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: so like you know, which I'm not gonna do. But
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: it's like a gentle nudge of being like I'm not
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: the person you ghost, like you need to let me
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: know that you're okay, man, Like I do have responsibilities,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: so like, but I'm not charging their card, like not
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: at that time at all. We are just focused on
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: are you okay? And then later whenever I find out
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: like what happened? And I've had some people with shitty
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: excuses where they're like I'm sorry that I was so
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: hungover I couldn't do it, or like I just forgot,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: Like they're just kind of yeah, yeah, I tell them,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: or they missed for dumb reasons that are not good reasons,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: they're not honest reasons, or whatever. And in those situations,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: my general pattern is I will tell them okay, and
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: then I'll say, look, I totally get it. Life happens.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely here to take away stress, not to cause stress,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: and so, but I do want to let you know,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: like this is your freebie the first time. I'll do it.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: This ones off the book, no worries, but the policy
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: does have to be this. And the reason it's like that, Whitney,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: is because a lot of people need help. And if
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: you block that spot. Every morning, I get text from
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: people that say, if you the first opening you have,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: please let me know I need a time today. And brother,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: I couldn't help them because you took that spot. And
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: so I just we got to be courteous the rest
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: of humanity. And there's a lot of hurting people.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: And if I mean I assumed that seventy five dollars,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: you said a lot of numbers in the letter, there
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming it's seventy five dollars.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: Was not the regular Uh.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was her cancel fee.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: That was the cancel fee and not the and not
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: the full fee.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 6: I think that's the EAP. Like it seems like it's.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Similar, right, It's something going on there, but yeah, I
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: mean it does. I don't know.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: I give him a warning shot. I give you a
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: warning shot, and I also prioritize the relationship, and I
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: sure as fuck don't do this shame shit where it's like,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: how dare you disrespect my time? Like in Jacob right,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: I have been plenty pissed my man, and like it's
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: been a lot better since I do telehealth because if
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: you blow me off and you don't show up for telehealth, cool,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go walk my dog. Yeah, like you know,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: it's fine. Twenty minutes in, I'm like, this isn't gonna happen.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna walk my dog back whenever I a shot.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: But I'm just sitting there. Yeah, there is a lot
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: of money, but like that's part of the gig, Like
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: being a private practice therapist, you you have, like just
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: that's part of your budget, Like you're thinking about that happening.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: It is a bummer, and I've definitely had a lot
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: of days to underscore your point, Jacob, where I've been
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: fucking furious because it's like a predictable one where they're
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: kind of sloppy. They've done this again. I totally did
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: something special, got their early, stayed late for them, missed
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: dinner with my family because they said they needed the
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: six o'clock and I was working in the office.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: And by the way, that all of those things, those
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 3: aren't the patient's business, right right. Oh, I moved my
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: life around right to accommodate you. But I did that.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: That's I'm almost responsibility for the thing that I did.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: That's my life around.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I emotionally feel like the
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: therapist may have felt. But part of professionalism you keep
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: that ship to yourself, right because you are somebody's healthcare provider,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: So it's not about dumping your shit on that.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, there's two two. I see this playing out two
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: different ways. One is it went down exactly as the
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: writer had described it, okay, and this professional this this
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: therapist was very unprofessional.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Two and writer.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: I'm not a cute using, but I'm saying this could
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: be a possibility, saying with love that there was more
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: to this, because the therapist behavior makes perfect sense in
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: the context that this was the final fucking straw, right,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: because I've been there with some of my patients before,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: especially like in in like rehabs, and feel like a
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: first time we're we're yeah, like but like but like
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: I've I've I can think of examples before where I've
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: had patients that really kind of start rubbing me the
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 4: wrong way and start like accusing me of ship like
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: like oh, you're supposed to be helping me, or you're
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: just doing this for the money, you don't even care
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 4: about me, this is blah blah, blah blah. And then
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 4: finally I get to the point like look, motherfucker, Like,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: here's the thing, Like, I'm I'm fucking starving, I'm.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Doing a bad job at microwave.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: All right, you till the fuck out, And now.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: I've got a new microwave. You don't do Now I
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: have to buy Wi Fi. I like, I.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: Have to show off all the lights in my house
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: to run that microwave.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: I remember.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: I remember one of my mentors was telling me a
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 4: story about a patient that he had that he just
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: got really frustrated with because he was doing you know,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: private practice, uh therapy, and for this one patient who
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 4: was a lawyer, and this lawyer he just had a
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: shitty attitude towards him, and like at one point he
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: just kind of had enough of it, you know, because
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: the lawyers like, yeah, I'm paying you one hundred bucks
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 4: an hour and you're not doing shit, and you know
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: this is such a waste of time blah blah blah blah.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 4: And then you know, he kind of explained how he
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: handled it in a very solution focused way, and he
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: was just kind of like, hey, look, I understand you're
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: paying me one hundred dollars an hour. You feel like
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: you're not getting anything. It's not just the money you're
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: paying me, But you can't charge your clients who you're
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: working with, who I assume you're charging two hundred dollars
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: an hour for, so you're out three hundred dollars.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Just kind of a little jab.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 4: But like there are times like we as therapists kind
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: of at some point get a little bit frustrated and
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 4: kind of feel like, all right, look we're done now,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 4: Like I've done it. Yeah, no, so again, writer, I
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 4: don't know if that's the case, it is also very
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: possible that this person was just very unprofessional. So I'll
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 6: I know, I like the Bob Wily reference. Yeah, from
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 6: what about Bob.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Now? So yeah, I'm kind of with the two of you.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 4: Like I don't do private practice clinical work anymore, but
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: like even with my personal training, folks, like when they
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: don't show up, like the manager at the gym's like, hey,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: you know, you can still charge them for that session,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 4: It's more important to me that we have a working relationship.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if that working relationship is coming to an
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: end because they are just expecting you because they are
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: not showing up, there's a proper way to end that.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: And that's not what this therapist did. I've had people
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: that it's not working out right, I've had people disrespect
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: my time. I've had people be unprofessional to me, and
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: I still keep my shit buttoned up. I don't tell
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: them how they make me feel. I don't tell them
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: they need to be how dare you know? And I've
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: told them like, hey, I and this is like if
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: I know I'm going to let go of them. I
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: am not going to charge them, like sometimes I've even
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: not charged last session to terminate because I want you
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: to walk out feeling like at least you got away
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: with that, because I don't want you to feel like
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: go out and write me a bad review or whatever,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: take out your vengeance, like talk shit. I hope that
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: you still look back and go. Jim and I weren't
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: a good match, but like he's a nice enough guy.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: He tried, and like that's the vibe I tried to
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: send them the whole time, is like, hey, here's my thoughts.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: Here's why I think that maybe I'm not a good
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: fit or maybe right now therapy is not a great
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: use of your time and money in life, because I
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: think we're struggling to get here. And like I as
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, like I do have other people
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: that literally today that could be the day they need
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: me save their life. Yeah, and I want to make sure.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: And like usually if I frame it that way, they're like, yeah,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: I get it, You're right. I haven't been showing up.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: It's like, but listen, you know, I have another therapist
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: I want to recommend to you, or a group. I
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: think you should try, and like, ethically, that's the proper procedure. Like,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna terminate, it's got to be termination with
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: recommendations and referral. Yes, you have to send them forward.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: You can't just do what this bitch did and be like, Hey,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm mad at you. You're not an adult. You owe
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: me seventy five bucks. You're stupid, you're bad at like calendary,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: you're a grown man. You're not even being an adult.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: And you know what else, go find another fucking therapist.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: Like in Nevada, it's written in our laws that you
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: cannot do that. Yeah, Like termination procedures are a big
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: part of ethics.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, No, for me, I do a lot of what
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 6: you said. Uh, when it comes to what like with cancelations,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 6: I give I usually once they because they sign the
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 6: papers that say if you miss the session, we'll still
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 6: charge you. What I run into with insurance is I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 6: will have usually young clients. They don't understand if they
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 6: miss a session. They're like, oh, but just go ahead
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 6: and still charge it as a session to my insurance.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 6: And I'm like, no, I can't do that. That's fraud.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 6: I was like, so I told them, Hey, you know,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 6: I know that things happen. I say the exact same thing.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 6: I'm not going to charge this time, but in the future,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 6: I do have to charge the full price, and I
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 6: go find what that price is for the insurance, because
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 6: every insurance is dir this is how much it is.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 6: It's one hundred and twenty dollars, and I do have
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 6: to charge your card the full one hundred and twenty,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 6: not the copey, right, And so I make that clear
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 6: to them, or if it's out of pocket, you know
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 6: it's this much. So in the future, just try and
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 6: let me know at least twenty four hours before, you know,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 6: just a reminder. And honestly, I've almost never had a
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 6: problem with like very rarely and to the point where
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 6: if someone even is sick, they're like, hey, I can't
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 6: make it in tonight for my session. I'm sick. I
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 6: understand you'll have to charge my card like they.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: Preface a lot of times.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because feel like I get it, Which.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: Is a big part of this too, like being super
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: upfront about it, walking people through it. But this is
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: also the warning shot is so important, Yes, because yes,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: if writer had been sat down in the next session,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, man, let's look at where things went wrong.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: So you thought it was nine am. That sucks, okay,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: Well here's or you thought it was noon, okay, like yeah, probably,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: and then say, so here's how this is going to
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: have to happen in the future, even if a mistake happens,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: which is look, and I don't know how I feel
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: about that, Whitney, because like this person, where's the receipts?
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: Like I've had situations like are you square to do
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: all my appointmenting? And like I've had people a lot
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: of times I know they're wrong and they'll say, oh
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: my god, I thought it was eleven am. And I'll say,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: oh my god, and I'll say to them something like,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: oh no, you know what, can you please go back
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: and double check that reminder and maybe screenshot it for me.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: I've heard sometimes that it sends the wrong time, and
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: oh my god, if it's doing that again, I need
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: to know right away so I can fix it. And
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: then they look at it and I know that what
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: they're gonna see. Yeah, and they go, fuck, I was wrong,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: and they write me back and like it was me.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: I it set eleven. I just saw the one and
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: thought one PM. Yeah, that's my fault. I meant to
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: click one PM at the calendar, I must have clicked eleven.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: But that's on me, okay, And I'm always very friendly
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: about it. Oh my god. I'm just relieved to hear
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: my systems not broken because that sucked. But hey, no
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: big deal. But again, like we're keeping it friendly, it's
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: up being no shame, no guilt. But there is also
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: that shoot, man, I know, I know you didn't mean
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: it right, and always letting them know, like, I know
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: you're not a bad guy. I know it was an accident.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: I get it. Oh my goodness. Yeah, and this is
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: this one we're gonna have a pass on. If it
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: ever happens again, though, we might have to deal with that,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: but let's not worry about that. Let's just focus on
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: the now and like very quickly repair the relationship with
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: this lady. Did is called a rupture?
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So bad?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 6: So I have a question the question too, like is
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 6: a therapist? Are these therapists seeing something in me that
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 6: is diagnosable? Have you ever had a client where within
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 6: a few sessions you can pick out like they don't
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 6: have any previous like official diagnoses or anything, Right, they're
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 6: just coming because they're stressed, they're you know, dysfunctional whatever
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 6: in their life. In some way, we're just trying to
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 6: work through childhood trauma. And you pick up on something
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 6: else like a personality disorder? How do you can't do
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 6: you pick up on that quickly? And how do you
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 6: manage it? If you do?
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you I don't bring them up. So when
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: I see BPD or narcissistic or any I mean, if
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: it's if it's OCD type or schizotype, like obviously you
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: see that shit from space and it alse, why bring
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: it up? Because they clearly know they also have other
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: fucking problems, Like you don't need to say it's personalities
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: are like thanks, Dick was already really struggling.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know why you take it that far.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So like I don't bring it up. Sometimes I
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: will see it and start to observe, like I'll and
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: then you dig deeper and then they might say like, oh,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: somebody once upon a time told me I had this.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's like, yeah, I've seen other people it
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: hasn't worked out. So like a lot of times with BPD,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: there is this I love you get away from me.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: And so sometimes they'll tell you, like I've been through
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: five therapists, it didn't work out. And then they'll tell you,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: like what patterns they noticed. They all betrayed me. They
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: they pretended like they were real they're there for me,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: and then they you know, and then you realize like, oh,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: they corrected you or they challenged you, and then you
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: peet the pieces together. So like I would sure to
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: play detective from that and learn from it, Yeah, and
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: just figure out like regardless if you're in the right
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: or the wrong, I'm realizing what works and doesn't work
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: for you, and so I'm just gonna try to avoid
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: those land mines. So what do you do in that situation?
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I I think my perspective is if I start
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 6: picking up on that and I feel like maybe I'm
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 6: in over my head, I would probably start trying to
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 6: refer to somebody who does work more with personality disorders,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 6: and that can be tough. It depends on how you
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 6: bring that up or you know, especially BEPD is what
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 6: I kind of go to as well. Narcissism. I kind
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 6: of feel a little more comfortable navigating maybe just because
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 6: I know people that like personally I guess that struggle
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 6: with that, and it's kind of interesting to me, So
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 6: I'd probably navigate that. But I don't want to do
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 6: more harm than good. So if I don't feel like
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 6: i'm the best help, then I'm like, eh, I'll refer
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 6: out right. And what about the gender, like seeking out
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: a specific gender for a therapist.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we've talked about this before, but it's for
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: a while.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm a big fan of that. I think
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: that's super duper common. I think that, like it's very
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: very common for people to say, like, I know I
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: won't work well with this gender, and like in Writer's case,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: to say, like I've struggled with men, maybe I ought
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: to visit with a man.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: I get that a lot, like a lot. It's very common.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: And I'll ask them, you know, like oh, who referred
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: you to me? Or how'd you find me? And usually
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: that's their chance at some point to say like, yeah,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: here's why I picked you, and and it'll be like
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: I've struggled with men or whatever, and like I had
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: a feeling that it might be good for me to
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: have a therapeutic relationship with somebody who's actively just nurturing
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: and like not out to hurt me because I naturally
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: have a lot of fear of you or whatever. And
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: like I'm a big fan of that, Like I think
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: that that is a profound thing. I definitely want to know.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: Like I don't like finding out ten sessions in that
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, you know, here's my bag of
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: baggage and like I never told you. But that's why
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: I threw the dice on a mail is because I
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: think that I had special healing to do. I want
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: to know that up front so I can maximize how
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: I'm being at you, right, because if I'm coming at
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: you way too like this or that, I'm thinking, oh,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: you want like a pe coach kind of energy, and
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: then it turns out like no, I needed you to
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: really be nurturing and like fatherly, yeah, I totally have
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: that move, Like yeah, tell me please, so that I
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: can make sure I don't replicate any bullshit you've ever
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: been through. So as long as you're announcing it, I
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 6: That's a good point.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: It's also hard to find us. I mean, like we're
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: twenty percent of the populary.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 6: I know that's what I thought reading through that as well.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: And yeah, for women at times. If there's trauma involved
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 6: regarding men, that's really common, but I was curious from
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 6: the male perspective, I thought that was kind of different.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely. When people come they tell me, like
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: I chose a man on purpose, I usually get one
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: of three reasons. The most common one is I've had
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: some toxic males in my life, and I think it'd
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: probably be good for me to have somebody to talk
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: through with that who resembles them in some ways, and like,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: I think that'll be an interesting stretch emotionally, So that
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: one's really common. Another one is there's a stereotype that
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: men are like coaching and more straightforward, and that women
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: will be more nurturing and lovy and like empathic and
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: just like same girl, same but like not tell you
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: what to do, which is I always think, like I
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: don't like that stereots. I'm like, oh really, because like yeah,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: but when I say it in a masculine voice, like
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: I'm a few octaves lower, and all of a sudden,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, like Jimmy's really directive.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it's a ship.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So like sometimes it's that and they're just
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: like no, I just really want, you know, like a
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: man to tell me what's up. And I'm like, okay,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: but like you could tell any therapist of any gender.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: I want you to be quite directive with me. I
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: thrive on that and like we'll hear are you and
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: go great. I just need to know that that's what
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: you want, and like if you don't want that, it's
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: not like I'm not going to do anything. I'm just
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: gonna be strategic about boy interventions.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because relationship is let me try and connect with you.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, and then we're going to use that. So I hear, like,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: as I have trauma with this, sometimes it's like there's
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: something about masculinity that I favor in the situation. I
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: want that. And then the third one is sometimes people
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: just telling me I get along better with men. And
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: so I have a lot of women that will say
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: I picked you because I get along better with men,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: like I do. I have a lot of guy friends.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: I'm we get along famously for whatever reason on sensitive
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: topics with women, or like they they are doing something
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: that they're afraid a woman would judge them for, so
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: like they're cheating, you know, and they're like, I don't
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: want to tell a girl this, like she's gonna be
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: cool with me, but secretly not like me, whereas I
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: feel like you don't care, and I'm like, all right,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: I'm a little offended.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah I.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 6: Do.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so, writer, I love these questions, man, I
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: think you're on the right side of this issue.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: I don't want to favor that there's something wrong with you.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case. I don't like how
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: this therapist handled any of this. It is yucky. And
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of you getting back on the
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: horse when you're ready. I also I still love the
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: idea of you sticking to meditation and exercise too. I
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: love the idea of self care and doing a self program.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of value to that. If
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: you've never found group therapy, I think you'd probably really
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: benefit from Really I love that kind of collaboration, right,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: and like getting that feedback from other people, and like,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: just I really think that's nice because then you're getting
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: like ten perspectives in the room.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like the writer's.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 6: Kind of like, ugh, you know right and wrong here right.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: And the writer's like doing a lot of second guessing
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: and like it's kind of like, oh, what at the
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: back of my head look like kind of fears like, okay, great,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: put yourself in a room with ten other people working
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: on themselves, learn to give feedback to others, learn to
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: receive it, and walk out of that room feeling like, Wow,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: we all did some work today, and like that's really
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: good for you too. That could be a really fun thing. Writer. Anyway,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: as we get to the end of the show, we
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: owe everybody a thank you from last week. So we're
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: going to take a beat here to run through the
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: therapods theraps and we've got some new therapy producers, We've
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: got some new therapy partners. We've got a lot of
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: people who have been showing us a lot of life
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash therapy for Mental Health Awareness Month,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: people are editing their memberships and just doing everything they can.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: And that was before I told them about the pony
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: up for Mental Health Camp. I don't know why we
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: let that fucking horse in here though. I feel like
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: that is just not appropriate.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I shouldn't be a pony. It should be a pony.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people to think. Starting off with
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: the dark Lord himself, Jim's Fasha University, Jeff Robert Paulson,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: Richard Bruins, Linda Brandmeyer, Scoopsureat, Joseph Pangrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Gavin Bristow, Carrie Terhart, Kiwi Fruit Scoop, Take It Ev Podcast,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: James K. Craig, Little, Don Door, Jim Hunter, Scoop, a
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Tron Todd Canfield, Felicia Butler, David Sorensen, Shayla Bullock, Lauren
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: is O, Katie Chiwakowski, Adam Pettanouzo, Matt's Lenegrin scoopater Is
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: Sending Lee Popsicle, Ian Soto, Jessica Seiphers That Josh Guy
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: Mom and Inja Scoop, James Dawson, Sarah Olo, Grumpy Lake,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: Mead Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen McCulloch, What Weekend, Lila
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: b Gay, Do Crimes, Kelly Gagner, Nippy Brian Emra, Matthew
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Johnson and Alec Lancaster, j D Congan, a Literal Pickle,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: Julius Cappell, Matthias Vanda, Brandt, Max the Ginger, Scoop, Ken
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: Tinsley Protect and Scoop Smells Funny, Matthew Cubic, Chad Chad,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: The Safety, Lad Walker, Fluke Stacy, Philip Geiton, Tim Mystery
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: Almost Doctor Nurse, Joey Duffy, The Slowly Getting Their Therapist Bear,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: Joel McMillan, Christopher de Gersy, Kirka Grim, Trisha Ortiz, Chris Conway,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: Melissa Lgeisler, Kirsten Johnson, d J Sewart, Mississippi Hippie, Lisa Scotty,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: free Elawson, Patty Glad Fee Fee, Heather w Kyle Todd, Ve,
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: Anthony Camarada, David Williams, Kate Police, Frontastic, Buddy Dobbins, Eric Dyer, Glitch, Scoop,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: Nathan Mookie, Alita Belaize, bug Nuts, Stephen Landon, Adam Blaz,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Kenneth Wong, John Finlayson, Mysterious, Analyid kJ Kar Carmen Perry,
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: Mister Poff, k Pizzle Dizzle, Robert Cole, Temporary Reality, Jeff Darnell,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: Persephonie Hazard, Jimmy b Jacob Hertz and Citium Ray, j Shark,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: Reck Created, Silka Daniels, What does Scoop Mean? Jenny Rose,
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: Jacob Billingsley, Alex Jardine, Acrusty Crowfont, Dylan Callapee WOLFEO five
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: Ben Sherman Hey Wolfe was in town by the way,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: posted some really cool photos on Vegas or on the discord.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: She was at the Luxor Ben Sherman, Chris Courtney Dale,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: the King, Riley, Adam Goff, Cedar Hayden Noramanico, Sherry Hare,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: Jesse Miller, Livy Kevin Tribe, Grace Linus, Hakkasan, Terrible, Tay Acrilla,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: Curve Any, Bitty Chicken, Farmer, Sam Jagan, Keeley, John Caravadas,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: k Mathis, Zachary W Chill Food Fish, Bumfish, J W. Reynolds,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: Michael F b J. Palazza, Low Foxy, Sally ty Evans,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: Winter Scoop Neck Pubes, Matthod, Matthew Connor and John s
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: and that.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 6: There dactyls Ice, Blue Scoop, Brian Layman Scoop, Brady Andrea Anderson,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 6: Frozen Cusser, Lorie Elsroth's Cy Shaunagan, Scooby, Scoopy, Justess Okie Scoop,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: Dank Butta brooks Lyle, I'm rich Lovely Spark, Mister v
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 6: Jim and Manu. The Offices of Counselor and Counselor Cavassos
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 6: Chad mag BB Hermit Momi, Damte and RT nice.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: And we got two new therap producers, Polygon and BB
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 4: hermit Man.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: Great job, yeah, reading off those names. Good job, thank you.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 6: Thank you did chick Filatio go.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 4: We need to figure this out because Patreon their fucking
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 4: things sucks.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: It's a bit more complicated with the year long stuff too.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah I've noticed that.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: So oh I see what you were texting. Yes, yeah,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: I see it now too.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: Okay, so we got to go through and figure out
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: where everyone is. And if we've been missing your name,
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: I definitely I sincerely apologize. We will try to figure
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 4: that out, and uh, we'll have to get this figured out.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 4: It's a it's a mess.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: And if your name is being missed and it bothers you,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: let us know. Let us know.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we want to get If you feel like you'll
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 3: be bothering somebody by by letting us know that your
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: name is being missed, you won't be.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: You won't be bothering anybody at all. So yeah, just
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: just let us know and.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: Help us out, because yeah, it is tough to kind
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: of keep track of all these names.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: You can message us through Patreon. You can email us
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: pot Therapy guys at gmail dot com if you did
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: not hear your name and you're like, no, I'm pretty
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: sure I'm sponsoring you guys. Yeah, let us know. We
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: will absolutely fix that in the next time.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 3: Nick on Instagram DM him, Yeah, slide on into his DMS.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: You want to just send a tasteful dick pic and
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: that's usually the signal. Then he'll be like, oh, hello, yeah,
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: it's it's the buzzer. That's how you get the attention.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: That's how it's how you digitally say hey Nick over here.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they'll be like, how can I help many?
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he pays attention to a lot of people.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: You should probably write a number on the dick pic.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: You know magic markers.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 4: What you need to do is get your penis tattooed ye,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: write your message on a piece, take a picture of it.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: We only accept tickets in the.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: Form of a penis. Oh my god.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: If you people start just getting pictures on dicks and
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: like zoomed in so it fills up the whole screen
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: and then photos shot just words onto the penis and
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: send those to the tangent.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: That's how we accept letters.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: Now I would be so happy. Make sure it starts
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: off with a code. The code is MS thirteen.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Venezuelan citizen. There are partners. We want to thank
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: the benevolent, revere, generous and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: love you all so much they give till it hurts,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: Dirty Bee and Pickett. And we want to think our bosses,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati members of our fan club,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: that they are producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie, Junior, Mint,
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: Smitty Scoop, Judy Schneider, Kayla Lansberry, Malia, Leon cassab Mason Miller,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: Ben Stanley, Slap in your face, Sarah's Adam Hathaway, Builer,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: t Mike Helm, Paris, Darren Cunningham, lib Tea, Monico, thunder Cougar,
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: Falcon Scoop, heyo Oscar Swan rose A sunny Boy, Slippy Kaya, Motherfucker,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Sandra mcwoffle, Dan Martin, Hannah, Marie uh Andrew Ling, need Emmagaine,
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: Elina Go to the Lorian Guy Brady Malaychic, Gabriel a Dame,
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: and Polygon.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 4: Sorry.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to hear this episode on cut and
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: unedited spontaneous slide projects, go to pajo on dot com
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: slash therapy and thank you for feeding the horses. Wow,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: that's all the time that we got for this week's session.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: I want to thank our landlords, Matt Mattingley's ice Cream
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: Social podcast, and thanks to those of you who contributed
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: to our show today. We really appreciate it. And remember
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: pod therapy is something to keep all to yourself. Share
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: the episode about the world and tag us on the
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: socials when you do. It's at pod therapy Guys on Instagram, threads,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: Twitter and blue Skies, pod therapy on Facebook, and don't
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: forget but all the extra Goodies is patreon dot com
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: slash therapy.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 4: If you want to submit a question to the show,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 4: you can ask anonymously at podtherapy dot net or email
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 4: us at pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com, or
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 4: click the link in the episode description bye to be
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 4: taken to anonymous Google form.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick Tangibent. I'm looking forward to those horse videos.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 4: Thanks and I'll see you for your appointment next week.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 6: Horse videos and.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: Yep or the same. I don't know both boy horses.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: Horse dick picks.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 3: If you have like a really little if you have
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: like a really long letter you need to write, you
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 3: could use a horse dip.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: If you feed the horse multiple times, at some point,
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: Emma will just let that camera slide a little.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you will.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: You'll fall on the ground accidentally. You know you'll get
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: what you're looking for. Zon, I'm trying to say, patroon
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: dot com slash there.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 6: Only feed the horses, Only horses, horses.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 4: Bye.