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Movilidad Renovable · Movilidad Renovable

• 0:00
  Instagram, the up, the mobility. The program for very good renewable fuels.
• 0:56
  New edition is renewable. We are in an unstoppable energy transition, no
• 1:03
  one doubts it. But just as important for this process is having the tools
• 1:07
  for the objectives and among them we find these fuels, which are a necessary
• 1:14
  tool to achieve them. In fact, the President of the Government himself has
• 1:19
  acknowledged in recent hours that the power grid is not ready to supply the power
• 1:23
  that the industry requests to adapt to decarbonization and reindustrialisation objectives. And the Council
• 1:29
  of the European Union also adopted regulations that lay the legal basis for developing and
• 1:33
  incorporating the system of Community aertetics because, for example, gases or do not
• 1:38
  talk like biomethane, and we will also deal in the next few minutes with
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  the contribution of renewable fuels to the circular economy. We cannot do without this
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  element, which is also fundamental to the vertebration of many rural areas, as
• 1:53
  we discussed in the previous programme. Now, with two experts in this area,
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  we are going to discuss in the next few minutes this program that we
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  carry out with the collaboration of the Platform for Renewable Fuels Renewable Mobility with Miguel
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  San Martín and Renewable Immobility. The latest news and for the first time in
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  its history, which is considered one of the main cultural events of our country,
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  the Madrid Book Fair will consume renewable energy. Thanks to an alliance with
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  red sun you will be able to feed most of the pavilions that are built
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  along the ride of cars with more than four zero liters of fuel made from
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  organic waste cop accepted used vegetables. This measure takes place in the improvement of
• 2:54
  the reselling in energy and the reduction of the emissions of this event. The
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  medical company le Idhl, one of the main suppliers of road transport in Europe,
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  have started routes of transport of pharmaceutical products to Belgium and Holland with non
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  - polluting trucks of biodays, making Lili the first European in the sector that
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  makes routes of international transport From its production plant in the town of Madrid of
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  alcobendas with natural fuel to reduce carbon emissions and contribute to fret climate change.
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  And finally, on June 3, the platform for renewable fuels celebrates a day
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  under the title of renewable fuels, an effective way to decarbonize transport. It
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  will be seen at the headquarters of the Spanish Energy Club and will analyze the
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  potentiality of these fuels and the opportunity they present for the decarbonization of the air
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  transport, marine land of all Europe. So the potential they have to achieve
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  a more like, responsible and efficient transition will be addressed. There will be
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  a conference of the vispós socio dentcrata, which has prepared uniform belt with the
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  platform. There will also be Javier Ganantara who is the President of Wing of
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  the Section of the Universe Air, Ramón Matías Valdivia provice Executive President of ASTI
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  and member of the Executive Committee of IRU, and Javier garaz who is the
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  Secretary General of Zepesca. I started the renewable mobility meeting and I would like
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  to discuss the issues we are going to discuss in the next few minutes and
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  introduce our guests. There is Luis Miguel Varela, who is Professor of Physics
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  at the University of Santiago de Compostela and president of the Fieito Forum for Sustainable
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  Industrialization and the Ecological Transition of Galicia. Luis Miguel Thank you very, very
• 4:53
  much for accepting this invitation. Thank you very much for inviting me and we
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  also have with us José Ignacio Domínguez, is responsible for business development in the
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  energy area of Bellasciente of the zi Houtte José Ignacio Foundation. How about Very
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  good Hello, let' s all say a pleasure to share this time with
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  you, as always with Inés Cardenal, spokesman for the platform for fuels in
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  renewables. So, for one or two we start then, good morning.
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  Thank you so much, Miguel. As always, we have a very interesting
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  programme today. Not because, as you pointed out at the beginning, well
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  we' re lucky to have the guests you' ve already introduced, who
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  are going to teach us a lot about the two topics you were commenting on
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  how renewable fuels. We have already reviewed the great advantages they have, but
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  perhaps the most important is the reduction of missions, not because that is the
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  objective that we all have will reach anchored missions in two thousand fifty and,
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  on the other hand, how they can contribute to a vector that will be
• 5:53
  key in that neutrality of emissions, which is the economy clearly circums, that
• 5:56
  is, one of those programs in which we will learn a lot Effectively,
• 6:02
  so if we do a little bit of the initial context, I do it
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  of how that road map is right now, how you are making efforts for
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  decarbonization. Luis Miguel, how you see right now the situation and those goals
• 6:19
  that have been set. I see them in an optimistic but also realistic way,
• 6:27
  in the sense that the category of synthetic fuels, tibles, based on
• 6:34
  renewables, based on renewable energies, has a number of very large potentialities that
• 6:43
  it has summarized and that also the documents, but also has a number of
• 6:46
  challenges that still need to be adequately addressed. If we throw, for example,
• 6:54
  by the route of the syfuls of the fuel electros produced from the crois
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  ideas of renewable hydrogen, because they have the same challenges that they have hydrogen.
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  Many projects are currently being launched. Some of them will be implemented in
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  the shorter term, others in the more medium term and others necessarily in the
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  longer term. Technological maturation is required. It is also required as a whole
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  market start- up, since outtake conditions are seen to start buying them and,
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  therefore, between a virtuous circle of price cuts and undoubtedly, that also
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  ends up having an impact on the production of associated synthetic fuels. From a
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  technological point of view, for example, it would be very important to act
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  on, of course, the efficiency of the production processes of synthetic gasolines or
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  degragias and synthetics. And that, therefore, goes through the improvement of catalyst
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  technology, for example metal catalysts, always in order to wear to lower costs.
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  It is believed and these are estimates of that of the International Energy Agency
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  that in the next decades not twenty, even within the same decade, the
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  two thousand thirty, those costs have been increased by fifty percent. I mean,
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  they' re very close. The development of these fuels in the production
• 8:24
  of renewable hydrogen has more or less the same challenges. Of course, in
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  the end, a little generalization, because it causes the costs to go away,
• 8:31
  in fact, many times jose nafios de filaut Bueno. Well, obviously,
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  all this energy transiggan. Now that we find ourselves, new opportunities arise,
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  not to this type of fuel, in which, as Luis Miguel says,
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  there are some challenges not that they had to overcome, but well,
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  the opportunity is there to implant them no, and I believe that a little,
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  as in the whole new implementation, because it involves a maturation of those
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  processes, of these uses that make it increasingly competitive, more efficient, and
• 9:07
  with greater environmental advantages are the way to generalize. But within that process it
• 9:22
  is seen as a real option that, perhaps right now, is not sufficiently
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  known. They always open up from electrification that before Inés says so, I
• 9:33
  say so, that they can live with all the technologies, but it is
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  best. We were talking about hydrogen that before, because there were already many
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  projects. There it seems that you forget a little bit and these renewable fuels.
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  For this generalization, knowledge is also needed, because Miguel undoubtedly, without
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  a doubt in fact well, continues to coincide with Inés in the necessary coexistence
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  of energetic scenario. In the energy scenario the future. Indeed, we have
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  a transition ahead of us from a monoculture, if I am allowed the expression
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  in the era of coal or oil or nuriary energy, which is where we
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  are to a diversified cultivation of energies and techniques for the energy supply of the
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  different processes, which is what we are going to deny from the point of
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  view of synthetic fuels. I think that, like everything like hydrogen, they
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  ' re going to find their niche and there' s also a second aspect
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  that needs to be taken into account. They' re gonna find time.
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  I mean, time will tell us exactly where they find him. I don
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  ' t think any of us have Crystal time right now to know exactly where
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  the use is going to be concentrated, but neither of us has enough certainty
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  to rule out any technology. Of course, from the point of view of
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  synthetic fuels, it seems very clear that there are sectors of very difficult scaling
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  in which we will necessarily have to introduce synthetic combustyl. It can go from
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  that understanding by synthetic fuel also efuls like ammonia or methane, which are also
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  strictly so that they will be key to the future evolution of the naval industry
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  or the aeronautics industry. Without a doubt, I think they will also have
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  an important gap that heavy transport in heavy out vehicles twenty- four seven as
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  their own hydrogen. I am also a strong supporter of this thesis and have
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  been supporting it for a long time. Perhaps more doubtful is the gap in
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  what is light transport, for example, at city level or whatever XI,
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  which can be competitive with battery technology, which is also very important. But
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  time, I say, is a very important factor, because the adoption of
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  technologies carries with it a technological maturation and that maturation technology is being produced in
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  all, including, of course, of course, in the production of synthetic
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  fuels and jogenagio. Since in ciencia, how are you working to know you
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  also a little more in this transition, very well as Luis Miguel movement,
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  I believe and we, as technologists more still do not always have to maintain
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  the technological independence in all options and, obviously, in each option there is
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  a more interesting alternative than another. The renewable cultures have traditional windows and will
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  always be present, as are the highest energy density, the ease of transport
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  of distribution to the ease of introduction of the current system that already exists of
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  use of fuels in the transport. After all, it is a fuel with
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  similar characteristics to conventional fuels. But now, the fact that we are increasingly
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  fighting to make them more sustainable, more renewable and even now there are other
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  sources of renewable energy storage, such as hydrogen, also makes these other synthetic
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  fuel- based renewable fuels emerge. That is to say, at present we
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  all hear how to generate fuels from that excess hydrogen that we are supposed to
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  have in this country in the future as a great potential producer of hydrogen.
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  So the way to extend other sectors, obviously, is to become renewable fuels,
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  liquids, easy to transport storage and that allows us to introduce in sectors
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  that clearly neither aviation nor the maritime sector, because it will be very easy
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  to introduce itself in neither batteries nor compressed hydrogen. Therefore, I believe that
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  technologists and scientific researchers like Luis Miguel, because we have a very entertaining future
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  ahead, with many technological challenges and a lot of maturation to make this more
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  a reality. If you will allow me to add to what you have said,
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  that there is also a whole question associated with the maintenance of technologies such
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  as combustion technologies, which have also a challenging aspect, because there is all
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  the social industry to them. They are quite reliable devices and with very long
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  absolescence, unlike electrical devices, which have much shorter sorstences. Unfortunately, although
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  we are working hard to improve them, I mean that, from the point
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  of view of the power advantage, there are undoubtedly many advantages. It is
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  also true that there are some questions such as, for example, because that
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  although they are neutral in accumulation to the best of the urban areas, that
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  could be minimized with some kind of segmentation towards the electric ones in those regions,
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  yes combustives the other day, but there, Luis Miguel Forgives, we
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  talked precisely about the rural areas, the tractors, the park of those zones,
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  since not machinery of last model. But if we were hired from Asaha,
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  for example, many farmers who have their tractors or machinery that they can
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  use with renewable fuel, which does not involve it is a change of engine
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  or anything, but then, to go to the city, they go with
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  their electric car, with their electric body to do the distribution of that last
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  villa. So of course you can count on that coexistence and sectors where it
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  ' s going to be more difficult to have that technology, because it'
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  s the park. Well, they also told us about dane dors from the
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  motorcycle pathomal, the park with the age of the park, because it operates
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  at fifteen years old. If I were to thank you for that combustion technology
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  that has a longer life span, certainly none. I believe that we must
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  help to establish in some way the idea that there are certain sectors of the
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  milling and tool with the meaning that we use in our present society, which
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  are complicated to bring to one stage a hundred percent electric, among other things,
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  because there are also unknowns that the batteries offer and I have traditionally worked
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  in this sector as a fundamental scientist that I am, and also in hydrogen,
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  which has basically the same scientific ambism problems from the point of view of
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  the devices that are used. And, therefore, I am not going to
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  criticize the electrification of sectors, because I think it is necessary and it is
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  going to be very convenient, but it is also true that we have to
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  help establish in society one and one this favorable opinion, that there are some
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  sectors that are going to be very eaten and I think of for example,
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  because in trucks of fleets of garbage collection or fleets of mining or fleets associated
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  with distribution, where the tools that in this case would be the means of
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  transport, are associated to jobs twenty- four seven. Of course, the
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  problem of electrifying this, because it is very dangerous, because it would need,
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  as companies dedicated to these issues have transmitted to us on various occasions and
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  art grading to electric fleets that need to duplicate the fruit, because, of
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  course, there are times of loading, there are times of treatment, that
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  completely changes the mode of management with an electric vehicle with which, man,
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  we believe that we have to send the message that I choose fuels, synthetic
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  fuels, neutral in carbon absolutely regulated, inspected so that, in fact,
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  it does not generate any environmental medium year or as they did the first generation,
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  even of social damages that I used in grain that went to human consumption.
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  This has already been widely surpassed by the last generation, since they can
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  live together perfectly within a mix completely decarbonized, renewable and permissible by advanced society.
• 18:22
  As we are induce. Yeah, well, you' ve been touched
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  by a lot of interesting topics. Perhaps remember for our listeners that I think
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  it is useful, because we already have enough programs and have tried to explain.
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  Perhaps remember that within the name renewable fuels, we effectively include both the
• 18:40
  synthetic fuels that Luis Miguel and José Ignacio have already talked about and the advanced
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  biofuels, to remember because sometimes we use interchangeably terminology, because to remember that
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  all are liquid fuels in neutral, carbon and good, they have touched on
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  very interesting topics, as with the compatibility with the current park in a transition
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  format that was not posed as a war between technologies, but how to use
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  in each case the one that is most efficient. No, and you have
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  pointed out the rural issue and I think this also gives us the opportunity to
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  talk about what we were talking about in the circular economy and how we are
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  going to integrate in this production of renewable fuels raw materials that we considered waste
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  until now. No, and I think our guests can be very much illustrated
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  here. Today, too, I certainly think our modeler has a gym microphone.
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  I believe that, in fact, it was also a topic that came
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  to me with the option, because we do not have to focus synthetic muchules,
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  but we should not forget that traditional renewable chilies are not, in the
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  end, those that are based on a biomass utuo. From the emergetic point
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  of view. So I think this is good, because it' s another
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  big advantage too and we have to see it so they have that kind of
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  fuel. That is to say, we must never understand the energy use of
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  biomass as something competitive any other octo, but as something complementary. I believe
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  that also the maturation and evolution of society and of science and technology in this
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  case are clear the concept of biorefinery. I think it is a bit that
• 20:15
  complements or sets an example for this type of use to encourage the use of
• 20:23
  renewable fuels in this energy transity also serves to promote and promote another series of
• 20:32
  sectors that also have their point of support to the energy sector in the transport,
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  all production or all the exploitation of agricultural waste, forestry, even energy
• 20:44
  crops. It is something that encourages sectors that sometimes fall a little behind when
• 20:48
  they are in the spotlight and that, however, with this because they would
• 20:52
  also have another impulse, like all the management of these organic waste, which
• 20:56
  could subsequently be transformed into renewable fuels, which is what has traditionally always existed.
• 21:03
  I believe that their opportunity also arises again when we agree on the renamability
• 21:11
  of fuels and these fuels are pronovable, sustainable and also have their point of
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  interest at the level as I see it absolutely the same. I think that
• 21:22
  in addition, within the relationship that has very well brought to line inese action,
• 21:27
  it is also necessary to include not only those that are based on carbon,
• 21:33
  in others on carbon. Among the pairs includes, for example, methane,
• 21:36
  which we are not forgetting, but it is one of the great vectors
• 21:41
  of hydrogen transport, for example, and also one of the great inputs of
• 21:44
  the chemical industry, but it includes ammonia niel, i e MANIEB. It
• 21:48
  ' s also a fuel merit, it' s also a synthetic fuel in
• 21:52
  the broad sense and there is, of course, a huge, minor interest
• 21:57
  in everything developing. I see one or the utunity also in the use of
• 22:00
  biomass. Of course I will not see it, especially speaking from a land
• 22:03
  like Galicia, which has the most important abiomass in the state and, moreover,
• 22:07
  with absolutely unique regeneration capacities and that only in felling remains, because it
• 22:12
  expects that in the following decade we will be two million tons a year.
• 22:17
  Putting an example only on such remains is a whole series of potentials. I
• 22:22
  think I want to draw attention to the need for biofuel, first of all,
• 22:26
  or synthetic fuel, i fuo, fourth generation fuel and all others,
• 22:30
  first of all, to mature technologically in order to avoid what is their big
• 22:38
  problem and is that, for example, produced from electrolysis at the moment because
• 22:41
  they have consumptions of home electrical energy of about five or six times those of
• 22:45
  an electric vehicle, for example. If we talk about mobility, it is
• 22:51
  one of the most important applications and where there is more controversy right now.
• 22:56
  If they do so, of course they will be and are us based on
• 23:00
  biomass, like others, an option that will necessarily be within the mix,
• 23:04
  which will not generate any problems of excessive carbon missions and therefore be admissible.
• 23:11
  So, in that sense, I see it well from the point of view
• 23:14
  of the rural economy, of course, because the countryside, since man,
• 23:18
  actually generates a lot of waste that can be used by means of gasification,
• 23:22
  by means of even for the production of hydrogen, which is the ultimate basis
• 23:26
  of this and is already being done. And in that sense, we believe
• 23:30
  that it is very interesting to move in this direction. But I already tell
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  you what is perhaps the most important thing is that, on the one hand,
• 23:41
  the message is sent to society that these are technologies that must be seen
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  integrated into a global decarbonized mix. And, in that sense, perfectly permissible
• 23:49
  that there is no war with electrification sectors, because in the end, as
• 23:53
  much as we fight in the abstract, the concrete conditions will be determined by
• 24:00
  the future and uncertain revolution of some markets and technologies that are being adopted by
• 24:06
  the consumer in the way that is best for him. And finally, it
• 24:11
  is clear that the great challenge is that costs have to be significantly reduced so
• 24:15
  that they can in some way be competitive in the majority of sectors and those
• 24:19
  that can be used. We have three minutillos of scorn left. Yes,
• 24:25
  I believe that it has appeared several times in the meeting, in the word
• 24:29
  maturation of technologies and cost reduction, and we have seen this in other programmes.
• 24:33
  This is not particularly significant because insofar as the regulation promotes this alternative in
• 24:38
  an environment we have talked about technological neutrality at other times, because it will
• 24:45
  be much easier to increase production, start producing it on a scale and therefore
• 24:49
  reduce its costs. Well, just by pointing by remembering this we' ve
• 24:55
  seen in other programs and I completely agree with them. In which, indeed,
• 24:59
  they will mature and therefore become more competitive. And almost as in conclusion,
• 25:03
  because Miguel of murder, it would be necessary some incentive, some push
• 25:11
  we are going to say so that in the end they can live together on
• 25:19
  equal terms, because if many times we are doing this because they are not
• 25:26
  yet sufficiently known by not being of the European Union bodies administrations, yes I
• 25:32
  a little and well also as a summary of what we have talked about,
• 25:34
  that I think it takes very well all those challenges or sofios that they can
• 25:40
  have in the renewable issues. I would see that there are, like,
• 25:44
  three points where we need to work to put them a little bit more into
• 25:48
  competitiveness. Hector fuels. First, I would say that in the technological and
• 25:52
  scientific environment there is already that awareness of the advantages that these have as renewable
• 25:59
  chible. No, no, let us not forget all these benefits that we
• 26:02
  have been commenting on here and that, therefore, it is an alternative to
• 26:06
  taking into account mobility. The other very important point, and so to speak
• 26:11
  involving all sectors of society, would be the incentive of the administration, i
• 26:17
  e some form must also be taxed with the environmental benefits of using this type
• 26:25
  of fuel. And finally, a little more to those who involve us technologists,
• 26:29
  it would be the other important point to continue developing this technology, which
• 26:36
  is process many times already known, but that it lacks the work in efficiency
• 26:41
  to, as Luis Miguel commented, have competitive cars and I believe that that
• 26:45
  makes it two things to work still continuing with the most other and in these
• 26:51
  processes and scaling is not to say if this more production exists and more implanted,
• 26:56
  because obviously easier is not to achieve that goal. It must cheapen cuts,
• 27:04
  no, and that' s kind of like retment from where we have
• 27:11
  to work. Well, I' m on my side, I agree very
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  much. I just wanted to add a tip. The world is currently consuming
• 27:18
  eighty- five billion kilogatios an hour for most of them and is still fossil
• 27:23
  fuel- based. The challenge of replacing all this, with clean technologies that
• 27:30
  avoid that a beach like the one I carry, going since I was a
• 27:36
  child, have just sent me photos that publish something Galicia practically destroyed by the
• 27:40
  sea and almost unstoppable. It is a historic and multi- generational challenge.
• 27:47
  We must send the message that this challenge is going to involve very diverse and
• 27:51
  very complex technologies, because I do not keep you. There' s no
• 27:56
  type for more. Luis miguels Varela, José Nacio Domínguez has not mocked as
• 28:00
  always. Thank you so much and until a next time goodbye to you.
• 28:14
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