Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Graeme Muller: Tech New Zealand CEO on Labour's AI policy, data centres

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Graeme Muller: Tech New Zealand CEO on Labour's AI policy, data centres · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Labour's AI policy. They want an office of AI, they
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: want a new online safety regulator, they want new copyright rules,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and they want data centres to wash their own face.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: We'll invest in AI's benefits because there are real benefits,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: but we will also focus on protecting Kiwis from the
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: potential harm that AI can cause.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Right, Graeme Muller, Chief Executive of Tech New Zealand with
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: us this morning. Hey, Graeme.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Hi there, Ryan.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: What do you reckon?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic. It's... I expect probably a lot
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: of parties will have some sort of stance on AI
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: at this election. We've been calling for it for about
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: the last two elections. This is a technology that is
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: more impactful than any we've seen, even electricity. And finally,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's good to see people taking it seriously.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: What is an office of AI in New Zealand going
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: to do? This is a global phenomenon. It's got a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: life of its own. What can you actually do to
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: regulate it?
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think parts will need to be regulated for sure,
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: but I think the main thing is that it's such
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: a powerful technology that we need to have basically a
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: view on what's happening across government and in society and
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: making sure that we're, as they say in their press release,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: getting the best benefits while managing any of the risks.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: At the moment, it's all very ad hoc. It's a
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: little bit like a lot of people listening to this,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: they probably would have had a bit of a play
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: with Claude or OpenAI, ChatGPT or something like that and
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: their kids probably have and their grandparents probably have and
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: their mate down the road probably has but it's just
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: random and ad hoc and you're not getting the best
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: benefits out of it and you're also probably exposing yourself
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: to vulnerabilities with your data and things like that by
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: not having a structured approach to it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So people are going on there and putting in their information,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: asking questions and here's my bank balance or whatever, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it's taking up that, it's sucking up the information.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, it could be. It's just that everyone's excited
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: by the, when you start playing with these tools, they're
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: powerful and they're amazing and people get excited by it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: And we've yet to face the potential risks. Like we're
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: seeing it with other parts of AI already through, as
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I say, we need an online safety regulator because we're
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: seeing AI so embedded in our society that We're using
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: it a lot, but we're probably not thinking through the
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: implications in a lot of places. It's a great, powerful tool,
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: and it will give us a lot of benefits. And
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: it does need a strong view. And this is not new.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, for many, many years now, other countries have
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: had ministers of AI and officers of AI. So this
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: is a really good policy.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I agree. Yes, they have. But is anything any better there,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just another thing. It's like another office.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It's another official. It's how you can't stop it.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like a really good parallel is if you cast
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: your mind back, I'm not sure how old you were
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: when the mobile phone arrived, but everyone freaked out about
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: mobile phone. We didn't want people using them and places
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: people going to get cancer. There was a lot of
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: people going, oh, we can't have the mobile phone. but
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: they eventually coordinated with industry and made some pragmatic rules
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: around things like, let's not put cell towers in the
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: middle of schools. Now we've reached an age where people
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: are really complaining if the cell tower isn't close enough
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: and they haven't got 5G and fast online streaming. So
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: it moves on, but at the time when it's all happening,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: you don't want it to be happening in a Roger
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Random way. You want some sort of structure and plan,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: coordination between different agencies, different industry bodies, etc., so that
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: things work in a way that's best for New Zealand.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: All right, Graeme, good to have you on the show.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Graeme Muller, Chief Executive, Tech New Zealand.